From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #386 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 10 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 386 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Beat depression, njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen / now with JC [Smurf ] Re: Carly Simon:- njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Carly Simon:- njc [Catherine McKay ] Joni and Canada [Karen Marie Espeland ] Re: Joni and Canada [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Joni and Canada ["Richard Flynn" ] Subject: Fw: Oh Garret Being burgled is not on! NJC [Lucy Hone ] Christ's Hospital NJC [Lucy Hone ] on drugs NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] on drugs NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Carly Simon:- njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Carly Simon:- njc [Smurf ] Re: Oh Garret Being burgled is not on! NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] house concerts NJC [mags h ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc [Joseph Palis ] re: Metheny and Bowie NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen-now njc ["Sherelle Smith" ] RE: Catching up with the evacuees, njc ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Christ's Hospital NJC [Bob Muller ] NJC Smurf Update [Bob Muller ] Ian Shaw's Joni Tribute & other Covers news [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Beat depression, njc Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama wrote: > * Try "light therapy" in the fall, winter, and spring > This is so important, Jim. Much research is going on right now about this, not only for the clinically depressed, but for everyone. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:51:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc Mark Scott wrote: > I have only listened to this record once or twice so I haven't formed a > set > in stone opinion about it. I think saying her voice is shot is a gross > overstatement. She's mostly using her lower register on this one and I > think a lot of the sound she's producing is deliberate. Yeah, right. And Joni deliberately sang 4 octaves lower on her last 3 cd's for effect, not because she smokes. Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:32:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen / now with JC - ---Jerry sez: > Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. There are lots of good singers who are men. Not Dylan, though. I was in a store yesterday when Joni's most recent 'Both Sides Now' came on. It sounded pretty great. Then it ended and the regular confetti came back on. - --Smurf __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:38:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Carly Simon:- njc Smurf wrote: > ---Jerry sez: > >> Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. > > > Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. > There are lots of good singers who are men. Not Dylan, > though. I had the cd on in my car and the woman riding with me asked if it was Wayne Newton!!!!!!!! I doubt if we have many Wayne Newton fans on the list :) Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:59:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Carly Simon:- njc - --- "Gerald A. Notaro" wrote: > Smurf wrote: > > ---Jerry sez: > > > >> Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. > > > > > > Not that there's anything wrong with that, of > course. > > There are lots of good singers who are men. Not > Dylan, > > though. > > I had the cd on in my car and the woman riding with > me asked if it was > Wayne Newton!!!!!!!! I doubt if we have many Wayne > Newton fans on the list > :) > > Jerry > Carly Simon sounds like a man. Carly Simon sounds like Wayne Newton. Wayne Newton sounds like a woman. Therefore, Carly Simon sounds like a man who sounds like a woman? Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:36:38 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: Joni and Canada Hello! I am keen on exploring the relationship between Joni, her art (particularly her music) and Canada. I'm reading Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now, the biography by Brian Hinton, and I came across something about Canada, that puzzled me. It says that Joni has claimed 'native roots', and that she is a friend of Buffy Sainte-Marie's: 'the two women share a sense of the Canadian landscape with is nostalgic, and angry, proprietorial and dispossessed, at the same time.' (p 75) Can any of you relate to these 'facts' about the Canadian landscape? Do you think it has affected Joni's art? If so, how? If some of her art can be considered nostalgic, can Canada be 'blamed' for it? I've never been to Canada, but I imagine that it might resemble Europe to a larger extent than the US - but I'm not sure as I've never been to the American continent (but I will!). Canada seems to be a low-key, and discrete kind of place as I've not heard much about it, through the news, etc. I've thought about the random mixture of 'cultural artifacts' that I've come across here in Norway, through the years, involving Canada: Margaret Atwood, South Park (Blame Canada! Or Celine Dion!?), the highly subjective Bowling for Columbine (with the juxtaposition of the peaceful, harmonious Canadians contrasted with the violently fearful Americans - at least that's the impression I got from the documentary), Anne of Green Gables (blush!), Rush (listen to 'The Trees' - great lyrics!), Leonard Cohen of course - and is Twin Peaks a place in Canada? Hm, this turns out to be a strange little mixture I guess! :) Anyway, it would be great if some of you would like to fill me in on what lies in the Canadian spirit, and how traces of this can be found in Joni's art. All the best, Karen Marie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:09:32 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni and Canada > Hello! > > I am keen on exploring the relationship between Joni, her art > (particularly her music) and Canada. > I'm reading Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now, the biography by Brian > Hinton, and I came across something about Canada, that puzzled me. A word of caution. Brian's book is the least authoritive of the works on Joni, and contains an extensive amount of errors. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:15:04 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni and Canada IMO Brian Hinton's book is an exercise in pastiche plagiarism and is worth less than the paper it's printed on. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Karen Marie Espeland Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:37 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni and Canada Hello! I am keen on exploring the relationship between Joni, her art (particularly her music) and Canada. I'm reading Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now, the biography by Brian Hinton, and I came across something about Canada, that puzzled me. It says that Joni has claimed 'native roots', and that she is a friend of Buffy Sainte-Marie's: 'the two women share a sense of the Canadian landscape with is nostalgic, and angry, proprietorial and dispossessed, at the same time.' (p 75) Can any of you relate to these 'facts' about the Canadian landscape? Do you think it has affected Joni's art? If so, how? If some of her art can be considered nostalgic, can Canada be 'blamed' for it? I've never been to Canada, but I imagine that it might resemble Europe to a larger extent than the US - but I'm not sure as I've never been to the American continent (but I will!). Canada seems to be a low-key, and discrete kind of place as I've not heard much about it, through the news, etc. I've thought about the random mixture of 'cultural artifacts' that I've come across here in Norway, through the years, involving Canada: Margaret Atwood, South Park (Blame Canada! Or Celine Dion!?), the highly subjective Bowling for Columbine (with the juxtaposition of the peaceful, harmonious Canadians contrasted with the violently fearful Americans - at least that's the impression I got from the documentary), Anne of Green Gables (blush!), Rush (listen to 'The Trees' - great lyrics!), Leonard Cohen of course - and is Twin Peaks a place in Canada? Hm, this turns out to be a strange little mixture I guess! :) Anyway, it would be great if some of you would like to fill me in on what lies in the Canadian spirit, and how traces of this can be found in Joni's art. All the best, Karen Marie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:22:17 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Subject: Fw: Oh Garret Being burgled is not on! NJC I can see where you come from Mack........ you used dope it for 9 years as did a lot of people. You got fed up with it, you decided it was not worth it. Well done you.. I have used it very sporadically but then I have a very good reason not to have meddled that much with drugs. I take your point that some people use drugs because they have problems. My brother admits it was all part of just being a teenager who was with a load of very avante garde people at a time when dope and all drug use was the thing you did then... I have asked him how he started using and he says "someone handed me a joint down at the beach, it was a lovely moment and I can still feel that now"........maybe he had a hole in his psyche that that moment filled. My brother has used cannabis daily since he was 16. (1968) He is now 53. he is an addict, no way is he not. He still does have a great mind except that he is stuck in the past really... he has an encyclopaedic knowledge of train timetables and ancient french poetry, but is not very good at remembering details when he does not have an audience and he can take hours to make a spaghetti bolognese as he keeps falling asleep whilst cooking........ He did, in his youth, try opium, heroin, most of the hallucinogens and had an interesting time with some animal tranquilisers....... He settled for cannabis as his particular drug of relaxation He cannot go out without knowing he has some with him, he could not have done his (very high profile) job without knowing he could skin up at lunch time (he is now retired and smokes more than he did). He could not get through the birth of his daughter without going out side to skin up and get some calm. He does not drive as he would not like to have to go without his dope.. oh and his drink.... He looks 10- 15 years older than he is. He is an incredible raconteur except that he falls asleep part the way through things and when he does start up again talks loudly across people and continues where he left off unaware that he has not been part of things for the last hour or so. He not only smokes very heavy weight hash (as opposed to weed) but drinks too. I dont think that I have had one normal conversation with my brother in the last 32 years....I became aware of his drug useage when I was 16 and he was in Liverpool and got beaten up by someone who wanted his stash.they broke into what they thought was an empty flat, .they trashed his flat, stole his records (to feed their own drug use) and then found him stoned in his bed. The thing he did not want them to take was his newly acquired half ounce deal... he had managed to hide it but they tried to firthen him into telling him where it was by punching him about. A half ounce deal of Lebanese Gold in 1973 was enough to get you a 2 year prison sentence. It would also have cost about #60 which was a lot. at a time when the average take home pay was about #70.. ANYWAY...... He is usually preoccupied with himself, his experiences, whether or not he can have a smoke. He burns holes in his clothes, furniture, table cloths, does not ever actually listen to anything anyone has to say and I have given up on ever really having a brother. I lost the plot with him at Christmas as he was so stoned. I appreciate that not everyone has a nightmare with cannabis, not everyone experiences life changing psychological problems. My brother will never give up as he knows he cannot function without dope and the idea of a "straight Reality" world does not fit with his cosy "do as I feel" philosophy. I think it has ruined him. I pity my sister in law and his daughter as he really does not function that well. she deserves a medal for putting up with him. She has been through breast cancer, child birth, and just about all her life with him alone. He will forever be a passenger in life..... He spends time with his favourite things, his cannabis and himself. I miss him, the person I thought I could have as a brother has never been there........ Lucy Macks post is attached below. >Kate wrote: >> > >>> > I have come to the same conclusion as both lucy & garrett... cannabis is > >> an > >>> > addicting drug... > >> > > I have to disagree with you folks on this one. I was a pothead for years, > 1979 to 1988. During that period, never missed work more than once or >twice > a year. Never impeded me from getting promotions while non-users were > passed by. I smoked when I got up, during the day and at night. Was high > most of the time. When I decided to quit, didn't have any problems to >write > of, was just tired of it and the thrill was gone. Mainly, was tired of the > effort it took to get it and of the worry about having it. Had no > withdrawal sx and didn't resort to any other drugs to take its place. > Wasn't good for my lungs I am sure but the cigarettes that I smoked before, > during, and present are worse I would write. I miss those pot years and >the > way that I felt and the good times that I had but that was then and this is > now. I think it should be legalized and alcohol should become illegal. SNIP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:31:01 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: RE: McCartney njc Bree re your comment about Mull of Kintyre below YOU are missing nothing...... Oh god, it is the worst most sentimental "faux" Scottish-esque piece of ghastliness.... YOu are right not to get it nor care for it either...... It was a horrible thing with (and I love bagpipes usually) bagpipes, and misty eyed Paul and Linda gazing out over the Mull of Kintyre........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa the Frog Chorus was a total travesty and also ended up a huge hit...... it was (and remains) awful.. I have to say I am extremely selective about what of Paul McCartney (and the Beatles even...) that I like. Sam is starting to look at the BEatles and he seems, oddly, to like the same things I do. "Across the Universe".."Strawberry Fields" and a few others. I liked the Stones better... more meaty and edgy... the Beatles were a bit floppy..with some points of brilliance. I have now posted twice in one day!! Yikes, my jobless status is starting to show... Lucy >Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:02:20 -0400 >From: "Bree Mcdonough" >Subject: RE: McCartney njc > >I'm a huge McCartney fan but I never cared for Mull Of Kintyre either. >What are we missing? > > >Bree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:50:13 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Christ's Hospital NJC This is a very strange school in some ways and one I knew well. My mothers cousin, "Clarence Seaman" was head master there for a very long time and we used to go and "have tea" with him...It was a very odd experience each time and we had to be counselled about our behaviour before we went... dont run, sit quietly, talk politely, dont mumble, comment on pleasant things and dont kick the furniture (!!!!.like we did that usually?????) We would sit and have amazing sandwiches and dundee cake and tea in very think porcelain cups and talk awkwardly about our state school subjects and try to sound intelligent. My mothers whole position in the family was an odd one and worthy of a book, but she was sort of a forgotten cousin and tried very hard to keep family ties. Visiting Clarence (we knew him as George) was one of "those things that had to be done".. For me the worst of it was not being able to go and play on the chapel organ as my Mums sister would let us do so in the college where her husband was principal.... There is nothing like pulling out all the stops and playing a chod or two............... but that was up in Birmingham and not in Horsham. But Christs Hospital is an amazing place affording a lot of underpriveleged children an education they would otherwise not have. A lot of the kids there are from very very wealthy backgrounds but it has a reputation for egalitarianism and that is good. But the uniform is wierder than wierd and I have tried to catch the programme but so far failed to... So Azeem you went there? are you and Old Blue? Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:20:18 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: on drugs NJC That was my point mac... you aren't an addict but some are... you didn't have ill effects in your ability to function & could easily walk away but some can't... as I said, it is akin to alcohol... some can drink a glass of wine daily the way you smoked put but are not addicted... while others cannot have that first drink... the point I am trying to make is that pot is the one drug that some still try to defend as harmless & nonaddicting... I'm not blaming the drug, just putting pot in the same category as all of the rest of them (including all that are legal)... > Kate wrote: > > > I have come to the same conclusion as both lucy & garrett... cannabis is > an > > addicting drug... > Mac wrote>> I have to disagree with you folks on this one. I was a pothead for years, 1979 to 1988. During that period, never missed work more than once or twice a year. Never impeded me from getting promotions< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:38:30 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: on drugs NJC >He is usually preoccupied with himself, his experiences, whether or not he can have a smoke. He will forever be a passenger in life..... He spends time with his favourite things, his cannabis and himself.< Lucy...You write so well about the heartache of being close to someone who is being controlled by a substance... my closest similar experience was my ex... only recently did I learn that he was a daily user of pot (we were already divorced & had a young son) ... it explained so much of his absentee behavior... our son was the one most hurt by all of this... he was never much of a provider so I struggled to make ends meet because he always seemed resentful that he had to pay minimum child support... (how expensive is pot?)... he would be involved in his son's life when it was convenient for him to do so... not when it was best for my son... they say that addiction is a disease of perception... this man's perception was & sometimes still is paranoid & negative... everything he saw was through that dark glass... he treated me like the enemy because I was the responsible one raising our son alone... a few years ago it seemed as if he had finally matured a bit beyond 14... that is when I learned he'd stopped using... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:05:29 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" She's mostly using her lower register on this one and I >> think a lot of the sound she's producing is deliberate. > > Yeah, right. And Joni deliberately sang 4 octaves lower on her last 3 cd's > for effect, not because she smokes. > Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. Well she put out a Christmas cd in 2002 and her voice sounded fine on that one. I find it hard to believe that it has deteriorated all the way to 'shot' status in the space of 3 years. I do think she was going for a particular sound on this cd and may have used her voice accordingly. Whether she was successful or not is another matter. There is a kind of warble to it in places that didn't used to be there. Deliberate or not, I don't know. I still don't think her voice is shot. From: "Catherine McKay" > > Carly Simon sounds like a man. > Carly Simon sounds like Wayne Newton. > Wayne Newton sounds like a woman. > Therefore, Carly Simon sounds like a man who sounds > like a woman? > And there's nothing worse than an old queen with a head cold. Jerry, aren't you feeling well? ;-) Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:39:23 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Carly Simon:- njc > ---Jerry wrote: > > >> I had the cd on in my car and the woman riding with >> me asked if it was >> Wayne Newton!!!!!!!! I doubt if we have many Wayne >> Newton fans on the list > > > Since when does Wayne Newton sound like a man? Did his > voice finally change? > Since he isn't 14 anymore. Actually now that he's almost 60 his voice has lowered and he sounds like Carly! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Carly Simon:- njc - ---Jerry wrote: > I had the cd on in my car and the woman riding with > me asked if it was > Wayne Newton!!!!!!!! I doubt if we have many Wayne > Newton fans on the list Since when does Wayne Newton sound like a man? Did his voice finally change? - --Smurf __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:48:12 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Oh Garret Being burgled is not on! NJC Mack wrote: I was a pothead for years, 1979 to 1988. During that period, never missed work more than once or twice a year. Never impeded me from getting promotions while non-users were passed by. I smoked when I got up, during the day and at night. Was high most of the time. Hi Mack, Maybe you just "thought" you were high. Bill Clinton did too. Mack continued: I miss those pot years and the way that I felt and the good times that I had but that was then and this is now. Me: Go back to it then Mack, if it was so wonderful. Mack: I think it should be legalized and alcohol should become illegal. Me: Prohibition didn't work. I wouldn't mind pot becoming legal, but harmful effects on the brain with regular pot use are well established scientifically so legalization isn't likely without a fight from neuroscientists. Mack: As for the problems folks have with marijuana and other drugs, I feel they are a sx of the people themselves and not the drugs. Blaming the drug is incorrect I feel, the problems are there before, during, and after. Which is why they are using drugs in the first place. Me: Definitely in the physiology of the people and not the drug itself. Problems of brain and liver chemistry genetically determined are known to set people up for addiction. There are actual differences in certain areas of the brain that can be burned out and the addiction ends, but it is just in the experimental stages. I personally wouldn't want my brain altered so I could drink like normal people. Love, Laura PS. Off to an AA meeting now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: house concerts NJC Kate, thanks for the encouragement about the house concert, perhaps you can write to me offlist about the yahoo groups org. as for cannibis addiction/personality altering... count me in for a great big "I agree, seen it, and it aint pretty" Mags, looking forward, always. np: There's a Change. ~m.r.~ you could move mountains with the words you do not say ~mark reeves~ www.markreeves.com www.jeremyproctor.com - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:05:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc Delurking briefly to chime in on 'old' voices. Funny how voices of singers caught in the autumn of their years reveal limitations that are sad testaments to the grandeur of their 'salad' days. Or that these voices reveal a keener and more lived-in experience in them. The Julie Wilson now doesn't sound like she is singing as much as doing recitatives set to music -- but somehow it added a certain gravitas to the proceedings. Brigitte Fontaine via her sublime "Est" is another case in point. Here is a voice that is caught in midflight from speaking to singing and how she makes it look like sound poetry. Like what one author said before: "Rimbaud-like poison letters" but sounding that comes from heaven. Same with Joni via BSN whose voice show the cracks of age but also imparts a deeper (at least for me) understanding of the lyrics and having lived through them. Younger singers like Renee Olstead could sing "Taking A Chance On Love" and be technically proficient and sounded like she went through that experience but there was no knowingness to it. I don't know. What I do know is I like Joni's 'late' voice despite (or beacuse of) its cracks, wrinkles and imperfections. Carly's lower registers have been beguiling me for years. I thought that she sounded so out of this world in "We Just Got Here" from her _Have You Seen Me Lately_ album. That low voice is like a female equivalent of a basso profundo. Deep and resonant. I don't have Carly's latest but as I have been impressed with her past albums that tackled the standards repertoire in THAT voice, I think I am going to like it. Ella's voice in the 80s was still musically inventive even if she has to push herself harder to make it work. Billie's "Lady in Satin" and "Last Recording" are almost unbearable to hear -- not because they are ugly (they are probably called that too) but because of the evocations of lost love and a disillusioned life. Just my 2 cents. Mark Scott a icrit : - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" She's mostly using her lower register on this one and I >> think a lot of the sound she's producing is deliberate. > > Yeah, right. And Joni deliberately sang 4 octaves lower on her last 3 cd's > for effect, not because she smokes. > Carly sounds like a man on her new cd. Well she put out a Christmas cd in 2002 and her voice sounded fine on that one. I find it hard to believe that it has deteriorated all the way to 'shot' status in the space of 3 years. I do think she was going for a particular sound on this cd and may have used her voice accordingly. Whether she was successful or not is another matter. There is a kind of warble to it in places that didn't used to be there. Deliberate or not, I don't know. I still don't think her voice is shot. From: "Catherine McKay" > > Carly Simon sounds like a man. > Carly Simon sounds like Wayne Newton. > Wayne Newton sounds like a woman. > Therefore, Carly Simon sounds like a man who sounds > like a woman? > And there's nothing worse than an old queen with a head cold. Jerry, aren't you feeling well? ;-) Mark E in Seattle - --------------------------------- Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger Tilichargez le ici ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:24:02 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: re: Metheny and Bowie NJC Hi Mike, For me, that "is" recent! I'm still stuck in time with Pat Metheny on the same stage as Joni! What a timestopping performance! Thanks so much Mike for your kind words! I think the best thing you can hear from someone is their sincere desire to see you succeed. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Save your duckies for now...this is the same CD that you may have. I can't get to a studio fast enough to do this second CD "I'm Still Here". I did several songs from it and they were well received (whew!) Also, I'm trying to put two of the newer cuts (live versions) on my website so hopefully within the next month, that's going to happen! Thanks for the info on Bowie and Metheny! I would love to hear this song! I know someone here in Joni-land has some Metheny/Bowie information! Love, Sherelle Mike wrote: Subject: Metheny and Bowie NJC >>Whoa Mike! I didn't know they recorded anything together recently! I would love to hear it!<< Sherelle Steady on gal, it's not recent. It's on the Best of Bowie EMI 2002 (and probably on other CDs too) but I just wondered if anyone knew the story about how they came to do this. Apparently it was written for the soundtrack of 'The Falcon and the Snowman' but more than this I cannot tell you. On a separate note, many congratulations on your gig. You deserve all the success you will one day achieve. You are a class act, judging by your demo CD. My question now is "Is the CD on sale at CD Baby the 5 track demo from some years ago?" mike in bcn np - I can't get started - Charles Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:34:37 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc > Ella's voice in the 80s was still musically inventive even if she has to push > herself harder to make it work. Not fair. Ella's voice sounded like a teenager until her death. I swear she made a pact with the devil. Billie's "Lady in Satin" and "Last Recording" > are almost unbearable to hear -- not because they are ugly (they are probably > called that too) but because of the evocations of lost love and a > disillusioned life. Funny you should mention Lady In Satin, Joseph. It is at the top of my all time greatest cd list. Nothing compares to it. Why? Because like all great singers in their later years, what they lose in elasticity and timbre, they gain in phrasing and timing. Rosemary Clooney, Jimmy Scott, Judy Garland, Sinatra, all were great through the years even though time had taken its toll. Such is what Joni was reaching for and somewhat achieved with her last 2 cd's. Such is not the case with Carly. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:33:29 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen-now njc Oh no Jerry!!! I heard a few clips on a commercial that was playing and thought that the style of songs did not fit her voice. However, she did do a very good version of "My Romance" some years ago. I'm a big fan of Carly Simon. I'll always love her music. Sherelle Jerry wrote: Just got her new cd Moonlight Serenade. It is very disappointing. Her voice is pretty shot. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:38:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen-now njc > Oh no Jerry!!! > > I heard a few clips on a commercial that was playing and thought that the > style of songs did not fit her voice. However, she did do a very good > version of "My Romance" some years ago. I'm a big fan of Carly Simon. I'll > always love her music. > I agree. Lest anyone think I disparage Ms. Simon, I am a very big fan. Torch, My Romance, and Film Noir were all excellent. Maybe that what makes this one such a disappointment. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:43:15 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Catching up with the evacuees, njc Yes, that was you!!! I'm going to make sure the world knows it too my friend!!!!It's been three years since those pictures were taken! I hope you will be able to take more down the road! I'm sending up a prayer for Paz as we speak! It's time for something new and exciting for me. Even out of tragedy, new beginnings can abound! That is my prayer for Paz! Thanks for keeping us updated Jim! Love, Sherelle Jim wrote: Over Sunday morning coffee, Jim L'Hommedieu, who shot concert photos of Sherelle Cary Smith before her first concert: http://home.fuse.net/jlamadoo/SHERELLE_composite_2002_by_Lama.jpg PS, I called up Paz'es cell in NYC last week. He was in great spirits, looking forward to a job interview the next day in a Bigger Market. So, you know... send up your prayer, cast out positive vibes, throw the I Ching or whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:57:03 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc I'm listening to a clip right now and think she sounds terrific. I've been a Carly fan forever. And let's not forget that another certain singer we all know and love has a voice that changed with age becoming quite a bit lower but never more beautiful. I guess it's all in the eyes and ears of the beholder... db >>> "Mark Scott" 10/09 12:29 PM >>> - ----- Original Message ----- > I'm glad you posted about Moonlight Serenade..Jerry. .....because I > thought I would get it. The interviewer even went as far as to say that > Diana Krall would do well to study Carly's smoking voice. Also....the > record company contacted Carly and said the stats were in and it's a hit. > I guess they are going on pre-release orders. > > Voice is shot?!! I hate to hear that. I have only listened to this record once or twice so I haven't formed a set in stone opinion about it. I think saying her voice is shot is a gross overstatement. She's mostly using her lower register on this one and I think a lot of the sound she's producing is deliberate. There is a certain sound to her voice that indicates that she's...how to be diplomatic here?...shall we say not as young as she used to be. I have to say that the couple of times I listened to 'Moonlight Serenade' I found it pleasant but uninvolving. I felt the same way about her last record of covers, 'Film Noir'. But her voice certainly didn't sound at all under par on 'The Bedroom Tapes' which was her last album of original songs and ranks up there with her best, imo. That was in 2000 so I suppose her voice could conceivably have changed some in that period of time. But I wouldn't say it is shot. Has *anybody* heard from Colin recently? Or Wally K? Mark E. in Seattle long time Carly Simon fan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:56:53 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Joni and Canada Hello Karen Marie as many people have told you Brian Hinton's book is meant to be read by those that aren't paying attention. A better book is by Karen O'Brien, also called 'Both Sides Now'. I think there is another one on it's way called 'Both Sides Now'... how these 'biographers' can claim to be imaginative writers, I don't know... Couldn't they call it 'Hejira'? I think in the current climate it might sell more ;-) Yes, well, your question: Joni is Canadian by birth and she grew up there until she was in her early twenties when she married Chuck Mitchell who 'carried her off to his country for marriage too soon' (I Had A King). I'm not sure I would call Joni 'dispossessed' nor would I lay claim that Canada is either... Canehdians out there on the JMDL? Not sure either that Joni and Buffy's friendship mean that they think alike or write alike... The only encounter that I know of Joni and Buffy having was when Buffy covered 'The Circle Game' and David Geffen loved the song and Buffy snapped 'That was by Joni Mitchell'... David soon signed the young Joni to his stable of clients. I know that Joni talks of Sasktoon as a 'foothill town' where the prairie meets the mountains in the distance, and the prairies around Saskatoon 'start to roll' and further on the horizon they meet the mountains. It sounds lovely, to be honest, just flat flat falt wheatfields slowly rising up to lilac mountains in the distance... Dispossessed? Proprietorial? Hmmmm Mr Hinton, talk some sense!!!! I hope you're well and I hope your theses on A Case Of You is going well Much JOni Jamie Zoob > I am keen on exploring the relationship between > Joni, her art > (particularly her music) and Canada. > I'm reading Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now, the > biography by Brian > Hinton, and I came across something about Canada, > that puzzled me. It > says that Joni has claimed 'native roots', and that > she is a friend of > Buffy Sainte-Marie's: 'the two women share a sense > of the Canadian > landscape with is nostalgic, and angry, > proprietorial and > dispossessed, at the same time.' (p 75) Can any of > you relate to these > 'facts' about the Canadian landscape? > Do you think it has affected Joni's art? If so, how? > If some of her art can be considered nostalgic, can > Canada be 'blamed' for it? > > I've never been to Canada, but I imagine that it > might resemble Europe > to a larger extent than the US - but I'm not sure as > I've never been > to the American continent (but I will!). Canada > seems to be a low-key, > and discrete kind of place as I've not heard much > about it, through > the news, etc. I've thought about the random mixture > of 'cultural > artifacts' that I've come across here in Norway, > through the years, > involving Canada: Margaret Atwood, South Park (Blame > Canada! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:02:28 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc > I'm listening to a clip right now and think she sounds terrific. I've > been a Carly fan forever. And let's not forget that another certain > singer we all know and love has a voice that changed with age becoming > quite a bit lower but never more beautiful. > > I guess it's all in the eyes and ears of the beholder... Especially about the "never more beautiful" part :) Smart Ass Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:18:01 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Carly Simon: Boho Queen Njc OK Jerry are you "sassin" me now or what? db >>> Jerry Notaro 10/10 4:02 PM >>> > I'm listening to a clip right now and think she sounds terrific. I've > been a Carly fan forever. And let's not forget that another certain > singer we all know and love has a voice that changed with age becoming > quite a bit lower but never more beautiful. > > I guess it's all in the eyes and ears of the beholder... Especially about the "never more beautiful" part :) Smart Ass Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:39:09 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Oh Garret Being burgled is not on! NJC Mack wrote: I was a pothead for years, 1979 to 1988. During that period, never missed work more than once or twice a year. Never impeded me from getting promotions while non-users were passed by. I smoked when I got up, during the day and at night. Was high most of the time. Hi Mack, Maybe you just "thought" you were high. Bill Clinton did too. mack- maybe so but i enjoyed it thoroughly. Not interested in discussing Bill Clinton but we could discuss Georgie's cocaine use. Mack continued: I miss those pot years and the way that I felt and the good times that I had but that was then and this is now. Me: Go back to it then Mack, if it was so wonderful. mack- You deleted the reasons why I don't smoke anymore. You might want to refer to that letter. Mack: I think it should be legalized and alcohol should become illegal. Me: Prohibition didn't work. I wouldn't mind pot becoming legal, but harmful effects on the brain with regular pot use are well established scientifically so legalization isn't likely without a fight from neuroscientists. mack- well, it really doesn't matter what we think. Alcohol is the established drug, no matter how harmful and will never be abolished again, I suppose. As for pot, the goodie goodies won't let it ever be legalized, regardless of the positive effects, of which there are some. I have read many different opinions on the effects and long term effects of marijuana use. I don't see them as black and white as you do. Guess we have read different information. Mack: As for the problems folks have with marijuana and other drugs, I feel they are a sx of the people themselves and not the drugs. Blaming the drug is incorrect I feel, the problems are there before, during, and after. Which is why they are using drugs in the first place. Me: Definitely in the physiology of the people and not the drug itself. Problems of brain and liver chemistry genetically determined are known to set people up for addiction. There are actual differences in certain areas of the brain that can be burned out and the addiction ends, but it is just in the experimental stages. I personally wouldn't want my brain altered so I could drink like normal people. mack- I do believe that is what I wrote. Marijuana is not the problem, the user is the problem. These people will use 'some' drug for those reasons. Moot point anyway since society is being taught that pot is bad and most people can't think for themselves and will believe it. Example- look who they elected as president. So be it. As for your brain being altered, don't know where that came from. My experiences with marijuana and those of the people I know are completely opposite and contrary to the hype put out there by this society. I was simply stating my opinion and telling of my experiences, not trying to convince anyone else of anything. People can think what they want, makes no difference to me. mack p.s. and not a big believer in aa either. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:40:51 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni and Canada Jamie's advice is on target, except that Karen O'Brien's book is called _Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light_. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Zubairi Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:57 PM To: Karen Marie Espeland; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni and Canada Hello Karen Marie as many people have told you Brian Hinton's book is meant to be read by those that aren't paying attention. A better book is by Karen O'Brien, also called 'Both Sides Now'. I think there is another one on it's way called 'Both Sides Now'... how these 'biographers' can claim to be imaginative writers, I don't know... Couldn't they call it 'Hejira'? I think in the current climate it might sell more ;-) Yes, well, your question: Joni is Canadian by birth and she grew up there until she was in her early twenties when she married Chuck Mitchell who 'carried her off to his country for marriage too soon' (I Had A King). I'm not sure I would call Joni 'dispossessed' nor would I lay claim that Canada is either... Canehdians out there on the JMDL? Not sure either that Joni and Buffy's friendship mean that they think alike or write alike... The only encounter that I know of Joni and Buffy having was when Buffy covered 'The Circle Game' and David Geffen loved the song and Buffy snapped 'That was by Joni Mitchell'... David soon signed the young Joni to his stable of clients. I know that Joni talks of Sasktoon as a 'foothill town' where the prairie meets the mountains in the distance, and the prairies around Saskatoon 'start to roll' and further on the horizon they meet the mountains. It sounds lovely, to be honest, just flat flat falt wheatfields slowly rising up to lilac mountains in the distance... Dispossessed? Proprietorial? Hmmmm Mr Hinton, talk some sense!!!! I hope you're well and I hope your theses on A Case Of You is going well Much JOni Jamie Zoob > I am keen on exploring the relationship between > Joni, her art > (particularly her music) and Canada. > I'm reading Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now, the > biography by Brian > Hinton, and I came across something about Canada, > that puzzled me. It > says that Joni has claimed 'native roots', and that > she is a friend of > Buffy Sainte-Marie's: 'the two women share a sense > of the Canadian > landscape with is nostalgic, and angry, > proprietorial and > dispossessed, at the same time.' (p 75) Can any of > you relate to these > 'facts' about the Canadian landscape? > Do you think it has affected Joni's art? If so, how? > If some of her art can be considered nostalgic, can > Canada be 'blamed' for it? > > I've never been to Canada, but I imagine that it > might resemble Europe > to a larger extent than the US - but I'm not sure as > I've never been > to the American continent (but I will!). Canada > seems to be a low-key, > and discrete kind of place as I've not heard much > about it, through > the news, etc. I've thought about the random mixture > of 'cultural > artifacts' that I've come across here in Norway, > through the years, > involving Canada: Margaret Atwood, South Park (Blame > Canada! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:48:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Christ's Hospital NJC This sounds like the school that graduated Roger the Cabin Boy, et. al. Ah, memories of Jonifest 2005... Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "The Difference" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:51:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Smurf Update Excerpt: "The people of Belgium have been left reeling by the first adult-only episode of the Smurfs, in which the blue-skinned cartoon characters' village is annihilated by warplanes." Read the whole (and appears to be for real) story at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/08/wsmurf08.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/08/ixhome.html Bob NP: Glenn Miller Band, "Both Sides Now" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:02:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Ian Shaw's Joni Tribute & other Covers news Nice article in the Hartford, CT Courant about jazz singer Ian Shaw...Scott had earlier alluded to this project, this article provides some other details, mainly the title "Drawn to All Things" (I love it!) and the fact that it looks like it will include "Talk To Me" - awesome news. Excerpt: "More surprisingly, Joni Mitchell's material provided the springboard for Shaw's most affecting performances of the evening. The Wales native accompanied himself on piano for a blues-infused "Case of You'" sang a dramatic (partly a cappella) "Both Sides Now" and rocked the house with a funky "Talk to Me." He explained that his next recording project, "Drawn to All Things," will be a tribute to Mitchell. Although he warned that doing a whole album of the renowned Canadian singer-songwriter's material "could be the kiss of death for a jazz singer," these exciting versions bode well for the forthcoming release, due out in early 2006." Read the whole deal at: http://www.courant.com/features/lifestyle/hc-shawrev1010.artoct10,0,3389732.story?coll=hc-headlines-life Keeping abreast of other covers news, Dolly's BSN cover comes out tomorrow - should be titillating. Bob NP: Let's Active, "Ten Layers Down" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:11:59 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Shameless self-promotion Joni cover! I don't yet have my copy, but I got word Saturday night that my version of "The Circle Game" (with slide guitar) is on the Savannah Folk Music Society CD _Friday Night Finger Paintings: The Best of First Friday for Folk Music 2005_ http://www.savannahfolk.org/swapnshop.htm (scroll down to CD pic) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:52:59 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: Re: Joni and Canada Hi Jamie! Thank you for your reply! And thanks also to Jerry and Richard for your comments on the Hinton book. I will skip the rest and move on to the book I actually bought, the Karen O'Brien-biography. I borrowed the other one from the library, and as the date for handing it back in came closer, I thought I'd browse through that one first. I didn't take Hinton's biography that seriously as he does not specify any sources when referring to comments by Joni. Also, I found the mistakes a bit disturbing, yes - referring to Joni's grandmother as 'Mrs Mitchell', for instance. Skipping the rest saves me some time - which is great - thank you! :) > I hope you're well and I hope your theses on A Case Of > You is going well Yes, I'm fine - thanks! Just returned from a friend, and we spent the evening playing and singing, some Joni stuff, among other things, just for fun. A great way of getting some Joni material (even further) under your skin! And a relief to get away from books and portable pc for a few hours too. By the way, I'm not going to write my entire thesis on ACOY, but on the analysis of popular music applied to some of Joni Mitchell's songs, with particular emphasis on metaphors, and the emotional appeal of her work. I will take most of the songs from Blue - 4 or 5 in all, I think. And I thought it would be a good idea to find out something about Canada in order to increase my background knowledge. I've already asked Catherine about those things (as she seemed to be the most unambigously profiled Canadian on the list, with her 'Toronto' label) and she gave me an interesting reply. However, it would be great to hear if others too (perhaps Canadians in particular) had opinions about that issue. I wish you all a great week! All the best, Karen Marie ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #386 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)