From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #376 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 3 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 376 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) ["ron" ] Re: Resurrected [Patti Witten ] Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) [Bob Muller ] Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) [Bob Muller ] conservation, energy policy, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: conservation, energy policy, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Sherelle's CD release concert [Michael Paz ] Happy New Year njc [Brian Gross ] Re: conservation, energy policy, njc [Em ] Re: Dog Eat Dogma (sjc) [littlebreen@comcast.net] (njc) Another Mitchell, another South Carolinian, and one neither [little] Re: (njc) Another Mitchell, another South Carolinian, and one neither [Bo] Re: Joni Covers, Volume 69 - Most Popular Volume Yet? [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Sherelle's CD release concert [Claud9 ] conservation, energy policy, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] not to blame ["mack watson-bush" ] McCartney, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Sherelle's CD release concert [Lori Fye ] RE: Happy New Year njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:29:12 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) hi >>>>>>mia wrote >>>> Intelligent design does not even support God. The intelligent designer >>>> could be a bunch of intelligent aliens who are using humans in some >>>> sort of weird experiment. god cant use subcontractors??? :-) >>>>>>>walt wrote >>>>>>>Anything that can be neither proven nor disproven is an article of >>>>>>>faith, not science. well - i'm going back to my school science days here, but..... what is electricity??? i seem to remember a whole course on it & being told that no one has actually proved what it is & how it works. so i guess its faith at work everyday???? & how about water??? one of the basic necessities of life - only apparently it should be gas at room temperature & scientists cant figure out why its liquid....... >>>>>>>> The late and much-missed Stephen Jay Gould often made the point >>>>>>>> that there need be no enmity between science and religion. >>>>>>>> Religion will always have a place as a source for >>>>>>>> moral/ethical/spiritual guidance, no matter how "big" science gets; >>>>>>>> but historically -- and now -- the top dogs of some religions put >>>>>>>> dogma before spirituality, and they fight through intimidation (or >>>>>>>> often, much worse) anything or anyone whom they feel threatens the >>>>>>>> dogma.<<<<<<< like the whole flat earth thing. then after burning people at the stake - "religion" (as opposed to christians) cottoned on that the bible actually is written on the assumption that the earth is in fact round. >>>> So telling people that they should teach ID *in science classes* as an >>>> "alternate theory" to evolution because the latter "threatens" the >>>> belief that the big kahuna in the sky is the ultimate creative source >>>> of all existence is wrong because (a) evolution does no such thing and >>>> (b) ID can not be proven or disproven, and therefore is not a >>>> scientific theory. well - i agree with (a). the bible clearly teaches that god has a slightly different perspective on time. yes - it does say that he took 7 days, but it also says that with god a day is as a thousand years ( which is not to be interpreted as a literal thousand years - just as a long, long, long time.) who says evolution wasnt gods project plan for the earth??? >>>>>> In the past (and in some cultures, still) religion was the source of >>>>>> explanation for things that could not (yet) be explained by other >>>>>> means -- this in addition to being a source of spiritual succor and >>>>>> ethical guidance. As science as we know it has begun to explain more >>>>>> and more of the physical world, admittedly the explanatory role of >>>>>> religion has been diminished; an established reltion has two >>>>>> options: fight science, or accept science's (admittedly sometimes >>>>>> tentative or incomplete) truths and emphasize religion's role as a >>>>>> provider of ethical/moral/spritual guidance. why do "religious people" (again, as opposed to christians) feel threatened by science??? well - generally because they dont actually have any basis for, or understanding of their religion, and are incapable of thinking for themselves. (kind of like most bush supporters???) "religious people" get all bent out of shape by talk of aliens - come on - the universe is a big place, god is a big god, where does the bible say that he never made another planet elsewhere????? there are theories that the bible indicates that there was a different creation on earth prior to the one we know - why shouldnt ther be another one on another planet. jesus said render unto god what is god's, and unto ceasar what is caesars, how about unto newton what is newtons??? >>>>>>>>>And this and other attempts by the current administration to blur or dismantle the wall between science and religion -- and church and state -- makes me wonder just how near or far we are from becoming a theocracy. scary thought!!! in bible college (i did two years there) we were emphatically taught that the reason for the spiritual decline and politcal & financial growth of the early church was its political influence, & consequent membership of people who had no interest in religion, but just wanted to further their political careers by using the church's influence. now - i havent been in a church in over 10 years but it seems to me that by people like bush manipulating the church to get their votes, and church leaders apparently falling for it & publicly, even apparently misusing & soiling their pulpit to support him, that we are exactly back where we began??? >>>>>>>>> Holier than thou and weirder than any, walt - whats different??? that sounds just like so many churches ive been to or heard of ............ >>>> Let the walls go tumbling down >>>> Falling on the ground >>>> And all the dogs go running free >>>> The wild and gentle dogs >>>> Kenneled in me ive been meaning to ask you about this - where does it come from??? i love it!!! ron np - nothing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 07:38:01 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: Resurrected You/We might have as much or more more impact if by pressuring the major download sites like iTunes as well as the satellite radio companies (XM, Sirius) instead of (in addition to?) terrestrial radio. iTunes and all the other major download sites feature and promote specific artists when it's to their advantage. Customer and fan feedback might influence their choices. Joni's fan/listener demographic (ahem, that's me) is not listening to radio so much, and here in the US it's label-payola driven. That is the problem Joni has been railing about for years! The so-called music video channels like VH1 and MTV aren't about music, they are about entertainment and youth consumerism. The "arts" networks (Ovation, Bravo) are more in the right demographic. Not that I'm opinionated or anything :)) Cheers, Patti - -- Patti Witten - singer/songwriter http://pattiwitten.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) Which is basically the logic I try to use when talking to the narrow-minded folks here in the buckle of the Bible belt (home of Bob Jones University and newly-selected site of the "Christian Exodus" movement. (Go here and be afraid, be very afraid: http://christianexodus.org/ ). I tell all these people who want prayers in the classrooms, in the courtrooms, in the workplace, to imagine their kids coming home from school and telling them that their teachers made them pray to Allah, Muhammed, Vishnu, etc. The parents would be so incensed that they would melt into a puddle of goo even before they could pen a vitriolic letter to the editor. I don't know if that helps them to better understand the issue, but it certainly shuts them up for awhile. Bob NP: The Difference, "Carnival In Kenora" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dogma (njc) As well you should, Ron - these are the lyrics that Joni closes "Jericho" with. Bob NP: The Bards, "Urge For Going" >>>> Let the walls go tumbling down >>>> Falling on the ground >>>> And all the dogs go running free >>>> The wild and gentle dogs >>>> Kenneled in me ive been meaning to ask you about this - where does it come from??? i love it!!! - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:45:28 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: conservation, energy policy, njc Hi, I was thinking about hearing Bush's comments to the American public about the NEW need for energy conservation. I wish I had the direct quote. It went something like this: GW Bush: If you don't need to take that ride in car, then well, don't drive. THIS is his energy conservation leadership attempt! This? I am a bit pounding the keys as I type. . How about all the initiatives of the 70's.. Shall we enumerate them from our memories? I was only 10 in 1970 and I can tell you a few. Can you tell I am a "little bit" burned up about his inadequacies? First of all. . the least he can do it give a news conference and ask the American public to conserve their total energy consumption by 10%. We can do this as a nation. Turn down the air conditioning turn down the heat Slow down your driving (if you drive 55 mph instead of 65, you can cut down your fuel costs by 10 %) turn off the lights when not in use do not let your car idle for long alternative fuel (not nuclear!) who is paying for these commercials toting that nuclear energy is the "clean alternative?" I hope not the American public. Yuck . . . .. yucca alternative energies "give me the warm power of the sun" insulate your homes more buy earth friendly products away with your leaf blowers. . sweep, you need the exercise put the sidewalks back into the communities let more kids walk to school we don't have to reinvent the wheel on this . we have a February recess in the northeastern states (I don't which states still do) but this was implemented in the 70's, in an effort to close the schools during one of the coldest months so as to save energy. . we still have February recess. . (one week off) but the heat remains on in the buildings, not even turned down. . we have just begun to try to conserve energy at our school, (and I have been there 15 years) etc. etc. Leadership please Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 16:37:09 +0200 From: Subject: NJC Sherelle's CD release concert The location: Gallery Five, an art gallery on the corner of Eastern Market (1879) between 6th and 7th Street in Washington DC, just behind Capitol Hill. The atmosphere of an old Parisian market hall. On stage: a ten-man band (left to right in a semi circle: sax, bass, keyboards, drums, percussion, guitar, 4 female backup singers. In front: Sherelle Cary Smith. Our Sherelle. Her CD release party. Her first concert with a full band.  and she sang her heart out. And Claudia and I were there. Row 2, aisle side. At least four times, Sherelle sent shivers down my spine. Pure soul of the deepest kind. Nothing, truly nothing of the performance felt amateurish or of the I really enjoyed that kind  the mindset that we so graciously have when we go and see friends or children perform. By any standard, it was a fabulous performance last night. Sherelle did not just perform, she WAS music. Bob Muller wrote that Sherelle nails Eleanor Rigby. She does. She did again last night. But Bob, you should have been there to hear how she nailed Marvin Gayes Whats Going On, how she powerhoused an Aretha Franklin cover. And everyone in the audience knew it was real. She sang her heartfelt tribute to her father, Mighty Blue, and her brother, a 6 foot 4 giant of a man, had to walk out for sheer emotion. She translated her mothers love of dancing to music. And Rob, that love song to you  how can a marriage bond sound more sincere? The band sometimes looked on in admiration and exchanged these smiles that real musicians know so well. The bass player started adding some extra bass slaps for funk, the veteran percussionist danced around his kit and the sax player closed his eyes before he drowned everyone in his final solo. And Sherelle sang her soul out. The concert was co-organized by the Marvin Gayes Appreciation Society; Marvins childhood friend was in the audience, as was the playwright David Whitehead who wrote the play Marvin Gaye Jr. He introduced the evening and said that Sherelle belongs on the national stage. I could not agree more. That is, if he had added the prefix -inter. Some of us heard Sherelle sing at the 2002 Jonifest. To a tape. Yeah, right. Take that performance, add 500%, add eyes that say this is my night, add a band that believe in her, add background singers who do not take their eyes off her for a single second during the performance, add an audience that is completely blown away and reacts sometimes three to four times DURING a song and yall know that last night was special. She sang her heart out. And I can still feel it. On the way back from Washington to Baltimore, Claudia and I were still baffled. Michael, you would have enjoyed it so much, Bob, Ashara, Maggie, Mags, all of you. And I thought of my father who would have said: That woman does not have lungs, she has bellows. He loved soulful music. He would have loved the concert. Betye he was sitting up there tapping his feet and smiling, next to Sherelles mum and dad. (the address: www.cdbaby.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: conservation, energy policy, njc - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > I was thinking about hearing Bush's comments to the > American public about > the NEW need for energy conservation. > > I wish I had the direct quote. It went something > like this: > > GW Bush: > If you don't need to take that ride in car, then > well, don't drive. > > THIS is his energy conservation leadership attempt! > Hey, Marianne. I wonder if GWB ever walks anywhere? The American city, (and the Canadian as well, but not to quite as large an extent) has been designed to accomodate and to depend upon the automobile. Great suburbs sprang up outside of urban centres, on the basis that everyone would have a car, that gas was cheap, and that there was lots of land, so everyone (read, everyone in the middle and upper classes) would have their big property and their car and could easily drive miles to get where they wanted to go and to buy the things they needed. The shopping mall was a short drive, but a fairly long walk, away from your home with its two or more cars in the drive. Any time there's a disaster or a major world event that bumps up the price of gasoline, we are thrown into a tizzy and we yell at the government to do something about it. When the price of gasoline goes up, the price of all our groceries and supplies goes up as well, because the cost of transporting these to where we live increases. And we panic. In the meantime, in Europe, the cost of gasoline has always been much higher and the cost of groceries and so on correspondingly high as well, and yet their average salary is, as far as I know it, comparable to ours. They have always learned to do more with less, but they don't rack up the miles on the car as we do, except for summer vacations and so on. I'm turning in my car at its lease-end on Tuesday and, although I will miss some of the convenience, I'm kind of glad I will be carless. I had been driving to work but, with the crappy road conditions brought about by a couple of very bad winters, and various levels of government trying to reduce taxes by neglecting upkeep, and the fact that there seem to be more and more selfish drivers on the road (parking in no-park areas during rush hour, hogging lanes, cutting in front without signalling and the usual), I was just getting tired of driving. I'm fortunate though, that I live within walking distance of two subway stations and that I work within walking distance of three. And that I live in a neighbourhood where I can get anything I need within a 10-15 minute walk. There are several fruit markets, a butcher shop, an organic food store, a drug store, several convenience stores, a health food store, banks, schools, drycleaners, a library, a great French patisserie, a whole lot of restaurants, and a whole bunch more in my neighbourhood. On my walk to and from the subway, and on the ride, now I can listen to music on my Walkman, or read a book and let someone else do the driving. If I do need a car, I can take a taxi, or rent a car if I need one for a weekend trip, or if I need a car for a few hours, I can join a co-op like this one: http://www.autoshare.com/index_login.html. Not everyone is lucky enough to live somewhere where you don't need a car. Maybe it's time our urban planners stopped bowing down to the big oil and auto manufacturers and started recognizing that some people want neighbourhoods, not suburban wastelands. We've been warned for a long time that fossil fuels will run out and that there needs to be alternatives, but, as usual, thinking beyond the next election, much less the next generation, has not been a priority. Although I'm as guilty as many of waste and needless consumption, I was raised in a home where conservation was the norm. My parents had been through WWII and the depression and could be (what we kids perceived as) cheap, but, we were always taught to turn off the lights when we left a room, not to turn the heat up high and a bunch more. It drives me nuts when my kids leave the TV on when they're not watching it, or leave the lights on when they're not in the room and I wage a constant battle with my always-cold daughter over the thermostat setting - with the price of fuel possibly going up 50% this winter, you can bet the lectures on this subject will increase by an even greater amount! Yeah, we need to do a whole lot more to protect our planet and future generations from short-sighted businessmen. GWB doesn't get it, never did, never will. I feel better now. Diatribe over. Whew. Thanks for bring it up. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:08:26 -0500 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: Re: Resurrected On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 07:38:01 -0400 Patti Witten wrote: > You/We might have as much or more more impact if by >pressuring the major > download sites like iTunes as well as the satellite >radio companies (XM, > Sirius) instead of (in addition to?) terrestrial radio. Probably true. Radio would have to feel there's genuine general rise in interest to be moved. I doubt an organized effort by die-hard fans is going to move the corporate giant. (Yeah, they probably would know that's what it is--if they noticed at all.) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:43:51 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Sherelle's CD release concert I am sitting here with tears in my eyes and joy in my heart. Uncle John thank you so much for that report. I knew she would do it. Never doubted it a bit. I know what you mean about musicians that can't take their eyes off of her cause when I had the honor of backing her on 'Edith" in Oliveria and I forgot where I was several times. I wish I was a better musician so that I could follow her around the globe and play in her band. Hopefully someone from the William Morris agency was there to sign her to a deal. You made no mention of the reception and no after antics backstage??? LoL. Just got off the phone with Richard Flynn in Georgia who was helping me with the whole bit torrent thing and we had a nice conversation. He sounds like a really great guy and I am currently downloading some of his recordings to listen to. Waaaaaaaa I wanna go to a Joni Fest. Ashara could you please have one REAL soon PLEASE. Ok Ok I WANT to go back to the Full Moon and I was wrong. Have it at your house. Hell have it at a Denny's or an IHOP for all I care just have one soon so we can all get together and play. Love Paz NP-Bitchenostrophy & Fox Sports (GO Saints!) > The location: Gallery Five, an art gallery on the corner of Eastern Market > (1879) between 6th and 7th Street in Washington DC, just behind Capitol Hill. > The atmosphere of an old Parisian market hall. > > On stage: a ten-man band (left to right in a semi circle: sax, bass, > keyboards, drums, percussion, guitar, 4 female backup singers. In front: > Sherelle Cary Smith. Our Sherelle. > Her CD release party. Her first concert with a full band. > >  and she sang her heart out. > > And Claudia and I were there. Row 2, aisle side. At least four times, Sherelle > sent shivers down my spine. Pure soul of the deepest kind. Nothing, truly > nothing of the performance felt amateurish or of the I really enjoyed that > kind  the mindset that we so graciously have when we go and see friends or > children perform. By any standard, it was a fabulous performance last night. > Sherelle did not just perform, she WAS music. > > Bob Muller wrote that Sherelle nails Eleanor Rigby. She does. She did again > last night. But Bob, you should have been there to hear how she nailed Marvin > Gayes Whats Going On, how she powerhoused an Aretha Franklin cover. And > everyone in the audience knew it was real. She sang her heartfelt tribute to > her father, Mighty Blue, and her brother, a 6 foot 4 giant of a man, had to > walk out for sheer emotion. She translated her mothers love of dancing to > music. And Rob, that love song to you  how can a marriage bond sound more > sincere? > > The band sometimes looked on in admiration and exchanged these smiles that > real musicians know so well. The bass player started adding some extra bass > slaps for funk, the veteran percussionist danced around his kit and the sax > player closed his eyes before he drowned everyone in his final solo. And > Sherelle sang her soul out. > > The concert was co-organized by the Marvin Gayes Appreciation Society; > Marvins childhood friend was in the audience, as was the playwright David > Whitehead who wrote the play Marvin Gaye Jr. He introduced the evening and > said that Sherelle belongs on the national stage. I could not agree more. That > is, if he had added the prefix -inter. > > Some of us heard Sherelle sing at the 2002 Jonifest. To a tape. Yeah, right. > Take that performance, add 500%, add eyes that say this is my night, add a > band that believe in her, add background singers who do not take their eyes > off her for a single second during the performance, add an audience that is > completely blown away and reacts sometimes three to four times DURING a song > and yall know that last night was special. > > She sang her heart out. > > And I can still feel it. > > On the way back from Washington to Baltimore, Claudia and I were still > baffled. Michael, you would have enjoyed it so much, Bob, Ashara, Maggie, > Mags, all of you. And I thought of my father who would have said: That woman > does not have lungs, she has bellows. He loved soulful music. He would have > loved the concert. Betye he was sitting up there tapping his feet and > smiling, next to Sherelles mum and dad. > > > > (the address: www.cdbaby.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:29:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: voices NJC Mack wrote>>Kate- hear her voice as being deeper and for some reason think it might be gravelly at times. I like gravelly.<< LOL. I wish! I've always loved the sound of deep husky voices in women. Alas, my voice is probably quite the opposite... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:22:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Happy New Year njc Wishing everyone here on the JMDL a happy and healthy new year, 5766, which begins at sundown Monday. Maybe the inhabitants of our earth can find a way to live in peace and harmony with each other *this* year. L'shana tovah Brian in south jersey I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all --Joan, with the wisdom of the ages __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: conservation, energy policy, njc - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > we don't have to reinvent the wheel on this . > > we have a February recess in the northeastern states (I don't which > states > still do) but this was implemented in the 70's, > in an effort to close the schools during one of the coldest months so > as to > save energy. . > Hi Marianne, and all... LOL! maybe they could consider letting the kids go to school with no AC here, like when I was a kid. Damn it was hot!!! But heck, maybe the modern schools have windows that can't even be opened, so no cross breeze even. Brilliant, huh? One thing I'm pretty happy we do without is a dishwasher. I mean, *I* am the dishwasher! Also no leaf blower. We sweep, sometimes. But I have to fess up that the dishwasher and blower thing is mainly that we've never wanted to spend the $$$ for these items. Also, GF and I now drive to work together - we only work 3 blocks apart. Sometimes one of us has to wait a half hour or so for the other to be finished...but all in all its well worth it, and in retrospect it seems a bit obscene to *not* drive the same vehicle in. A bit like Nixon lowering the thermostat in the White House way down, so he could light a fire in the fireplace. Would like to ride a bicycle in, but all paths go right through treacherous territory, where I don;t want to show my face in the pre-dawn. Its a shame tho, cuz the 5 miles each way would be very "do-able" otherwise. Be nice if they'd open one lane of the interstate to bicycles only. Would solve my prob. I read today that sales of bicycles are wayyyyyyy up. I think that must be a good sign. I honestly wish I didn;t own 2 cars, at this point. Em ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:16:00 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dogma (sjc) >>>> Let the walls go tumbling down >>>> Falling on the ground >>>> And all the dogs go running free >>>> The wild and gentle dogs >>>> Kenneled in me ive been meaning to ask you about this - where does it come from??? i love it!!! Hey, Ron -- Great points about religion and science; I love it when this list gets into possibly contentious issues not with rancor but with intelligent discourse. My "signature" lines are the last five lines in my favorite Joni song, Jericho, which can be found on Miles of Aisles and on Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, and which appropriately for this discussion, refers to a biblical story: Jericho (Last verse) I'll try to keep myself open up to you It gets easier and easier to do Just like Jericho Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me Best, Walt > hi > > > >>>>>>mia wrote > >>>> Intelligent design does not even support God. The intelligent designer > >>>> could be a bunch of intelligent aliens who are using humans in some > >>>> sort of weird experiment. > > god cant use subcontractors??? :-) > > > >>>>>>>walt wrote > >>>>>>>Anything that can be neither proven nor disproven is an article of > >>>>>>>faith, not science. > > well - i'm going back to my school science days here, but..... > > what is electricity??? i seem to remember a whole course on it & being > told that no one has actually proved what it is & how it works. so i guess > its faith at work everyday???? > > & how about water??? one of the basic necessities of life - only > apparently it should be gas at room temperature & scientists cant figure out > why its liquid....... > > > >>>>>>>> The late and much-missed Stephen Jay Gould often made the point > >>>>>>>> that there need be no enmity between science and religion. > >>>>>>>> Religion will always have a place as a source for > >>>>>>>> moral/ethical/spiritual guidance, no matter how "big" science gets; > >>>>>>>> but historically -- and now -- the top dogs of some religions put > >>>>>>>> dogma before spirituality, and they fight through intimidation (or > >>>>>>>> often, much worse) anything or anyone whom they feel threatens the > >>>>>>>> dogma.<<<<<<< > > like the whole flat earth thing. then after burning people at the stake - > "religion" (as opposed to christians) cottoned on that the bible actually is > written on the assumption that the earth is in fact round. > > >>>> So telling people that they should teach ID *in science classes* as an > >>>> "alternate theory" to evolution because the latter "threatens" the > >>>> belief that the big kahuna in the sky is the ultimate creative source > >>>> of all existence is wrong because (a) evolution does no such thing and > >>>> (b) ID can not be proven or disproven, and therefore is not a > >>>> scientific theory. > > well - i agree with (a). the bible clearly teaches that god has a slightly > different perspective on time. yes - it does say that he took 7 days, but it > also says that with god a day is as a thousand years ( which is not to be > interpreted as a literal thousand years - just as a long, long, long time.) > who says evolution wasnt gods project plan for the earth??? > > >>>>>> In the past (and in some cultures, still) religion was the source of > >>>>>> explanation for things that could not (yet) be explained by other > >>>>>> means -- this in addition to being a source of spiritual succor and > >>>>>> ethical guidance. As science as we know it has begun to explain more > >>>>>> and more of the physical world, admittedly the explanatory role of > >>>>>> religion has been diminished; an established reltion has two > >>>>>> options: fight science, or accept science's (admittedly sometimes > >>>>>> tentative or incomplete) truths and emphasize religion's role as a > >>>>>> provider of ethical/moral/spritual guidance. > > why do "religious people" (again, as opposed to christians) feel threatened > by science??? well - generally because they dont actually have any basis > for, or understanding of their religion, and are incapable of thinking for > themselves. (kind of like most bush supporters???) "religious people" get > all bent out of shape by talk of aliens - come on - the universe is a big > place, god is a big god, where does the bible say that he never made another > planet elsewhere????? there are theories that the bible indicates that there > was a different creation on earth prior to the one we know - why shouldnt > ther be another one on another planet. jesus said render unto god what is > god's, and unto ceasar what is caesars, how about unto newton what is > newtons??? > > > >>>>>>>>>And this and other attempts by the current > administration to blur or dismantle the wall between science and religion -- > and church and state -- makes me wonder just how near or far we are from > becoming a theocracy. > > scary thought!!! in bible college (i did two years there) we were > emphatically taught that the reason for the spiritual decline and politcal & > financial growth of the early church was its political influence, & > consequent membership of people who had no interest in religion, but just > wanted to further their political careers by using the church's influence. > now - i havent been in a church in over 10 years but it seems to me that by > people like bush manipulating the church to get their votes, and church > leaders apparently falling for it & publicly, even apparently misusing & > soiling their pulpit to support him, that we are exactly back where we > began??? > > > >>>>>>>>> Holier than thou and weirder than any, > > walt - whats different??? that sounds just like so many churches ive been to > or heard of ............ > > > >>>> Let the walls go tumbling down > >>>> Falling on the ground > >>>> And all the dogs go running free > >>>> The wild and gentle dogs > >>>> Kenneled in me > > ive been meaning to ask you about this - where does it come from??? i love > it!!! > > > ron > np - nothing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:10:54 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: (njc) Another Mitchell, another South Carolinian, and one neither Hi, all, Finally got around to listening to the three "mystery" CDs I'd ordered and then forgot I had ordered until they'd arrived. I can recommend all three for various reasons, and all three can be found at CDBaby: The "other Mitchell" is Anais Mitchell. She has somewhat of a little girl voice that many people don't like (um, think Emiliana Torrini if you know her, or maybe Bjork), but I have no problem with. Her album "Hymns for the Exiled" is excellent, thoughtful folky singer-songwriter stuff. The "other South Carolinian" is the hilarious Carla Ulbrich, "Professional Smart Aleck". This is a live album, and she has great rapport with the audience. I love this album so much, I went back and bought her first one (both available at CDBaby). Hey Mr. Muller, ever met this girl? With songs like "I Have To Kill You Now". "The Wedgie" and "What If Your Girlfriend Was Gone", she does SC proud. The "neither Mitchell nor South Carolinian" is the excellent, bluesy Holly Figueroa, who reminds me a little of Melissa Etheridge. She slurs her words a bit, something that always irritates me as my hearing sails slowly away, but the lyrics are provided in the book, which currently doesn't work for me as Holly is my shower music at the moment (no salaciousness implied here, I am, and I'm almost certain she is, gay). She's a spectacular guitar player and her backup musicians are just as good. The album is called "Dream In Red". Again, all three are at CDBaby, as are our own Patti Witten and Sherelle Cary Smith. This place is so great, it poses a financial danger for me; although presumably, if *you* order something from there, you won't be surprised when it arrives. Best to all and congrats particularly to Sherelle, Walt - -- Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: (njc) Another Mitchell, another South Carolinian, and one neither No, her name is not familiar - when I checked out her website it looks like she's based in Florida these days. Should she wander 'round these parts I'll go check her out. She's from Clemson, SC (home to the college of the same name) which is about 45 minutes from me. Nice to hear that some good stuff is coming from SC... I got "Dream In Red" as a freebie from cdbaby a while ago (they don't do the free cd thing anymore) and I thought she was trying too hard to be like Ani. Not bad but not close enough to the real thing. Bob NP: Rickie Lee, "Hey, Bub" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 19:02:14 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 69 - Most Popular Volume Yet? Bob writes: > 2. Wheatfield - Conversation: What a great suprise! This Houston area band > recorded this originally in the 70's and then re-released it this year, and > I'm glad they did - The track builds into a full-blown bluegrass explosion > with rockin' mando, banjo, and everything else. Lots of fun, maybe too 'busy' > for the purists, but I love it when a band takes a song in a whole new > direction like Wheatfield does here live onstage. http://cdbaby.com/cd/wheatfield You guys have to listen to this cover. The girl's voice doesn't compare to our own Claudia's, but the blue grass sound just blows me away. I've been playing this song over and over. Thanks Bob for the entire CD. This entire covers CD is one of the best yet, so ya'll put your order in now! Also wanted to say congratulations to Sherelle on your wonderful CD. It still blows me away when you sent so many of us the demo, and I'm sure the real one is gonna be a top notch seller. You go girl! Also congrats to Alison and Jeff for their wedding day bliss. We tried to make it, but it just wasn't possible. I wish you both a life of love and laughter. Jimmy NP: Patti Smith "When Doves Cry" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:48:31 -0400 From: Claud9 Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Sherelle's CD release concert Oh what a night! -- Yes, I was there and thanks to John's lovely post, you already know how special the evening was to us and how much Sherelle blew us away - and we already knew of Sherelle's talent and soul. But WOW!!!!!! For me it was an evening of being close to tears nearly the entire time - tears of joy, tears just because... I was so happy for Sherelle, because I know how much hard work it takes to put something like this together, because I know how much it meant to Sherelle, because it was so f#&*ing GREAT!!!!!. It was simply awesome to see Sherelle "Do what she really LOVES to do" and see her come totally alive with all her heart. Giving it all she's got and giving more than I at times felt I could take in. Every note, every gesture, every song felt truly precious and strong and vulnerable. Like something being born right there and then. Yes, that might seem over the top, but it truly felt like that to me. I know Sherelle waited and wished for this for so long - and she electrified us all with her passion which just seemed to explode. It was very emotional and just tremendous to be there. It was not only a stellar performance but it was a real gift to all of us. I honestly feel like I have no words to describe the experience, but I can tell you that I still feel the music, the soul, the passion ring, ring, and ring inside of me. My standing ovation continues and I can't wait for the next time!!!!!! Claudia on 10/2/05 10:44 AM, johnvantiel2002 at johnvantiel@comcast.net wrote: > On stage: a ten-man band (left to right in a semi circle: sax, bass, > keyboards, drums, percussion, guitar, 4 female backup singers. In > front: Sherelle Cary Smith. "Our" Sherelle. > Her CD release party. Her first concert with a full band. > >  and she sang her heart out. > > And Claudia and I were there. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:53:13 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: presents everybody! I anticipation of the big day (November 7, Joni's birthday) lets give each other presents! Here goes. . . . . Send someone on the list (or off) a joni line. . simple You can give as many joni presents as you want. . . they don't have to be in reference to anything. . . just get that joni electricity sparking! I'll start. . . but you can do this privately too. ~If I didn't have love, I'd be nothing. all good things, Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:14:25 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: conservation, energy policy, njc __________________________________________________________ >Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca Hey Catherine,, look what showed up at the end of your post! Well, what a fine, excellent post Catherine. Inspiring to me. . as I can use plenty of daily inspiration regarding these things. Good for you to go with out your car. . you should be saving quite a lot. . . regarding your carless social life: hey, you have US at your finger tips. . who needs a car? and your other friends can pick you up. : -) Marianne Catherine wrote: Hey, Marianne. I wonder if GWB ever walks anywhere? The American city, (and the Canadian as well, but not to quite as large an extent) has been designed to accomodate and to depend upon the automobile. Great suburbs sprang up outside of urban centres, on the basis that everyone would have a car, that gas was cheap, and that there was lots of land, so everyone (read, everyone in the middle and upper classes) would have their big property and their car and could easily drive miles to get where they wanted to go and to buy the things they needed. The shopping mall was a short drive, but a fairly long walk, away from your home with its two or more cars in the drive. Any time there's a disaster or a major world event that bumps up the price of gasoline, we are thrown into a tizzy and we yell at the government to do something about it. When the price of gasoline goes up, the price of all our groceries and supplies goes up as well, because the cost of transporting these to where we live increases. And we panic. In the meantime, in Europe, the cost of gasoline has always been much higher and the cost of groceries and so on correspondingly high as well, and yet their average salary is, as far as I know it, comparable to ours. They have always learned to do more with less, but they don't rack up the miles on the car as we do, except for summer vacations and so on. I'm turning in my car at its lease-end on Tuesday and, although I will miss some of the convenience, I'm kind of glad I will be carless. I had been driving to work but, with the crappy road conditions brought about by a couple of very bad winters, and various levels of government trying to reduce taxes by neglecting upkeep, and the fact that there seem to be more and more selfish drivers on the road (parking in no-park areas during rush hour, hogging lanes, cutting in front without signalling and the usual), I was just getting tired of driving. I'm fortunate though, that I live within walking distance of two subway stations and that I work within walking distance of three. And that I live in a neighbourhood where I can get anything I need within a 10-15 minute walk. There are several fruit markets, a butcher shop, an organic food store, a drug store, several convenience stores, a health food store, banks, schools, drycleaners, a library, a great French patisserie, a whole lot of restaurants, and a whole bunch more in my neighbourhood. On my walk to and from the subway, and on the ride, now I can listen to music on my Walkman, or read a book and let someone else do the driving. If I do need a car, I can take a taxi, or rent a car if I need one for a weekend trip, or if I need a car for a few hours, I can join a co-op like this one: http://www.autoshare.com/index_login.html. Not everyone is lucky enough to live somewhere where you don't need a car. Maybe it's time our urban planners stopped bowing down to the big oil and auto manufacturers and started recognizing that some people want neighbourhoods, not suburban wastelands. We've been warned for a long time that fossil fuels will run out and that there needs to be alternatives, but, as usual, thinking beyond the next election, much less the next generation, has not been a priority. Although I'm as guilty as many of waste and needless consumption, I was raised in a home where conservation was the norm. My parents had been through WWII and the depression and could be (what we kids perceived as) cheap, but, we were always taught to turn off the lights when we left a room, not to turn the heat up high and a bunch more. It drives me nuts when my kids leave the TV on when they're not watching it, or leave the lights on when they're not in the room and I wage a constant battle with my always-cold daughter over the thermostat setting - with the price of fuel possibly going up 50% this winter, you can bet the lectures on this subject will increase by an even greater amount! Yeah, we need to do a whole lot more to protect our planet and future generations from short-sighted businessmen. GWB doesn't get it, never did, never will. I feel better now. Diatribe over. Whew. Thanks for bring it up. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > I was thinking about hearing Bush's comments to the > American public about > the NEW need for energy conservation. > > I wish I had the direct quote. It went something > like this: > > GW Bush: > If you don't need to take that ride in car, then > well, don't drive. > > THIS is his energy conservation leadership attempt! > __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:44:53 +1000 (EST) From: "Melissa Gibbs" Subject: Re: Joni Covers Volume 69 If the latest volume is even half as amusing as Bob's outrageous commentary, it will be a ripper. "Sex Kills" immediately following a Bonk? Bob you had me rolling on the floor laughing! Laughing I said... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 19:09:04 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: not to blame To the knowing here. Listening to 'not to blame.' One of the tunes I have again thanks to limewire. Only had the cassette before and rarely listen to them anymore as they go the way of the 8 track. Have often wondered and want to know, succinctly, is the story true. Did Browne really do it? Was it as they say? mack np: Barry Manilow- Ships ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 23:25:30 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: McCartney, njc >Long hair!> >at Madison Square!> Tuesday and Wednesday. Jim L'Hommedieu, who shot concert photos of Sherelle Cary Smith before her first concert: http://home.fuse.net/jlamadoo/SHERELLE_composite_2002_by_Lama.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:18:28 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Sherelle's CD release concert Claudia wrote: > It was simply awesome to see Sherelle "Do what she really LOVES > to do" and see her come totally alive with all her heart. I'm so sorry I couldn't be there ... sounds like I missed an awesome performance. Go, Sherelle! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:10:03 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: not to blame NJC I've often wondered this too. I think of some of his classics like.. Rock me on the water..Before The Deluge...how vulnerable he comes across and the maturity of his work. So I don't want to believe he physically abused someone. IS it a he said she said thing? I know he said some things about Joni I didn't care for. But if one is innocent and a friend (Joni) believes the accuser ...was it justified? Bree > >To the knowing here. Listening to 'not to blame.' One of the tunes I have >again thanks to limewire. Only had the cassette before and rarely listen >to >them anymore as they go the way of the 8 track. Have often wondered and >want >to know, succinctly, is the story true. Did Browne really do it? Was it >as >they say? > >mack > >np: Barry Manilow- Ships ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 02:12:44 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Happy New Year njc I didn't know this...but all the best to you and everyone! Love ... Bree >Wishing everyone here on the JMDL a happy and healthy new year, 5766, which >begins at sundown Monday. Maybe the inhabitants of our earth can find a way >to >live in peace and harmony with each other *this* year. > >L'shana tovah > >Brian in south jersey > > > >I've looked at love from both sides now >From give and take, and still somehow >It's love's illusions I recall >I really don't know love at all > > --Joan, with the wisdom of the ages > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #376 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)