From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #371 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 29 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 371 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Random playlists njc ["Ross, Les" ] Re: KT Tunstall njc [Lucy Hone ] RE: ebert on dylan film njc ["Azeem" ] DYLAN and Lulu's Tambourine man ROTFL njc [Lucy Hone ] RE: ebert on dylan film njc [Deb Messling ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Subject: RE: DYLAN: MONDAY and TUESDAY NIGHTS, njc [Em ] Re: ebert on dylan film njc [Les Irvin ] Re: ebert on dylan film njc [Les Irvin ] Re: KT Tunstall njc [Garret ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Les Irvin ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Les Irvin ] FU ( bumper) sticker NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Les Irvin ] Re: ebert on dylan film njc [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] RE: Ebert on Dylan film njc ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Catherine McKay ] fun news NJC [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Close To the Edge/NJC ["Martin Giles" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] No Tofu Today For JVT's Birthday! [Lori Fye ] better than dylan [vince ] sorry [vince ] Joni MIA again [Bryan ] Re: Close To the Edge/NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: better than dylan NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: better than dylan NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: better than dylan NJC [hell@ihug.co.nz] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:58:22 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: Random playlists njc I'll play! Well, it starts with A song from Salif Kieta which I've not logged the name of. New to me, still getting into it. From a Best-of Compilation Tori Amos singing Barons of Suburbia (not a favourite...) Yousou N'Dour singing a song I've not noted the title of from Nothing's in Vain. Again new to me, still getting into it. Rondo Allegro from Mozart's Clarinet Concerto Tom Waits - Watch Her Disappear Shawn Colvin - Nothing on Me Busi Mholongo - The Father of My Child from her album Urbanzulu. (an outstanding track from that album the rest of which I'm not really enjoying that much. This track is a killer though) Tom Waits again. This time, Poor Edward Patty Griffin - Be Careful Then...oh god, a song I recorded on Garageband and downloaded to iTunes. That'll need to be taken off. Oh Dear, oh dear. Les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:26:46 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Re: KT Tunstall njc Katie Melua YUCK..."closest thing to crazy" just not my thing .... .. clever, though. You have to hand it to her. She didnt speak English until 8 years ago, came in from the Georgian Republic etc.,(I think that is her background) but thanks but no thanks... and Lilac Wine for me will always be sung by Elkie Brooks, although Sam would argue that the best version is Jeff Buckley........ but Ms Tunstall is up there with some of the best I have heard... just hit the spot for genre, voice, talent. She reminds me of a cross between Natalie Merchant and Kate Rusby.... Queen Lulu back from broadband black hole-dom..... NP Big Black Horse and the Cherry Tree... Garret wrote: >Quoting Azeem : > > > > >>However, Garret, PLEASE don't even mention her in the same paragraph as >>the dreadful Katie Melua! This winsome young thing sold a lot of >>records last year on the basis of a ghastly ditty called The Closest >>Thing To Crazy, a rare song that I HATED viscerally within seconds of >>hearing it. Her career has been masterminded by Mike Batt, a man who >>used to dress up as a Womble to make a living. She can't even sing in >>tune. >> >>I'll sit down and breathe deeply now. No offence, Garret ;) >> >> >> > No no - you are totally right. Katie Melua really grates something in me. I >would use the word insipid. her new album has been/is being released soon and >the ads are all over the TV - something about bicycles. I've said it before, >and will say it again (and probably again and again): I was sitting in a cafe >in Highgate one day and Lilac Wine sung by Katie Melua came on. I could not >believe how utterly lifeless it sounded. >I definitely like KT Tunstall's singles. I have not heard the album, but will >probably get it after seeing her on the Mercury award show. I had heard and >liked that cherry tree song, but had not known who it was. I would be >interested in something a little more challenging from her. >GARRET > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:44:22 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: ebert on dylan film njc Vince wrote: << The article did not post as well as I had hoped but, in brief, Ebert said it all, there was nothing to watch other than the moving pictures because Ebert described it so completely. And the reality of all that Dylan is reminds me why I never cared for him all that much (with all respect for his role in music).>> Strikes me that's a bit like not watching The Last Waltz because you've read a review of it! Horses for courses, and all that, but I think you really missed out, Vince. Ebert's dry and sanctimonious tone did not even begin to capture the electricity that Dylan brought with him, whether in concert or not. He was uncooperative with the journalists, but believe me, most of the questions he was being asked were beyond banal; and in the recent interview, which was filmed five years ago, Dylan was still clearly uncomfortable with the "Spokesman for a generation" tag that was thrust on him. And for non-Dylan fans, there was still a *lot* to enjoy in the reminiscences and performances of his fellow early 60s folkies and later members of his electric band, particularly the delightful Pete Seeger, the wonderfully wry Joan Baez and the amusingly laconic Al Kooper. The whole thing was terrific. Azeem in London - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date: 27/09/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:04:26 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: DYLAN and Lulu's Tambourine man ROTFL njc Well the two-parter has been interesting and I have to say it has placed some of his departure from the early acoustic music (my mother would say "call that nasal grating music??? where is the Harry Belafonte?" (mind you when she hit 45 she discovered Leonard Cohen and Pink Floyd...that made for some very interesting moments!!).... sorry I digress........ that I liked.. but then I enjoyed his other stuff as covers, when I think about it..However Joan Baez singing "It's all over now baby blue" still makes the goosebumps rise.. and Positively 4th Street is an absolute fave done by the man himself... I think I understand exactly why he did what he did..he did not want to be confined at that time, nor defined by any parameters... he did it his way.... NOW THE LULU BIT....Not queen Lulu (as in Moi) but the orange haired and skinned Glaswegian 4'10" wee scotts lassie....who sang "You know you make me wanna shout" I dont know if any of the UK listers decided to take a hike over to BBC4 after the end of the programme last night to see other performers doing DYLAN covers (over the years) but if you did not then you missed some great footage of the most monumental mangling of any song by any artist.. Even Will Schatners "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" cannot surpass Lulu and her dancers go-go pop dance version of Tambourine Man, complete with key changes and characteristic "wooo wooo yeahhhh" whilst she banged a tambourine all over her "junior petite Freemans catalogue" jump suited body, whilst surrounded by a swirling troup of Julie Felix and Jason King look alikes..... It was a priceless piece of totally dreadful wonderfulness and I have it on video for anyone to see when they come and visit......... One other classic which left me very puzzled was XTC doing a version of "All Along the Watch Tower" which bore no resemblance whatsoever to anything I had everheard before..I think muso critics would probably damn it with faint praise as "an interesting interpretation" It was a fab half hour of songs.... well worth the watching... anyone else seen it? Lucy xx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:43:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: DYLAN and Lulu's Tambourine man ROTFL njc And hence makes for a great cover! Although I admit that Partridge's vocals are VERY eccentric (even for him) on that track, I love Moulding's uber-funky bass line on it. XTC doesn't do a lot of covers, so since I'm such a big fan I've always loved this cut. I actually conversed with a fellow covers collector in Europe a couple of years ago whose sole collection is covers of "All Along The Watchtower" and he had about 450 back then! While being a Joni covers collector has it's challenges, I would imagine that collecting Dylan covers would be next to impossible; he probably has 40-50 songs in the BSN category that have been done hundreds of times. Right. Off to breakfast then. Bob NP: Neil, "Prairie Wind" (Me likey!) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Close To the Edge/NJC Subject: RE: ebert on dylan film njc The various journalists shown in the film were almost painful to watch, but don't imagine that they represent all journalists of the time. There were plenty of thoughtful people around who were talking about Dylan in a deeper way. I think the film was edited to foster the view that Dylan possessed some sort of wisdom denied ordinary mortals of the time, and I don't buy it, personally. In the early part of the film there were hints of Dylan as an ordinary musician with an understandable ambition to be famous, and of Dylan as a guy who scrupulously cultivated his persona. *That,* I buy. At 04:44 AM 9/28/2005, you wrote: > He was uncooperative with the journalists, >but believe me, most of the questions he was being asked were beyond >banal; >27/09/2005 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:01:44 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc > The various journalists shown in the film were almost painful to watch, but > don't imagine that they represent all journalists of the time. There were > plenty of thoughtful people around who were talking about Dylan in a deeper > way. I think the film was edited to foster the view that Dylan possessed > some sort of wisdom denied ordinary mortals of the time, and I don't buy > it, personally. I agree. Compare a Beatles press conference of the time vs. Dylan's. Both needed the press, and The Beatles gave them what they wanted. It was a game. You want to say that Dylan never wanted to play the game, but he did. He didn't have to meet up with the popular press. > > In the early part of the film there were hints of Dylan as an ordinary > musician with an understandable ambition to be famous, and of Dylan as a > guy who scrupulously cultivated his persona. *That,* I buy. As would Dylan himself I suspect. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:24:46 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc To be clear, I mean the generic "you may want to say." I was not at all directing that at Deb because I totally agree with Deb's assessment. Though I think playing the game is not necessarily a negative, as Joni has often commented. Jerry >> The various journalists shown in the film were almost painful to watch, but >> don't imagine that they represent all journalists of the time. There were >> plenty of thoughtful people around who were talking about Dylan in a deeper >> way. I think the film was edited to foster the view that Dylan possessed >> some sort of wisdom denied ordinary mortals of the time, and I don't buy >> it, personally. > > I agree. Compare a Beatles press conference of the time vs. Dylan's. Both > needed the press, and The Beatles gave them what they wanted. It was a game. > You want to say that Dylan never wanted to play the game, but he did. He > didn't have to meet up with the popular press. >> >> In the early part of the film there were hints of Dylan as an ordinary >> musician with an understandable ambition to be famous, and of Dylan as a >> guy who scrupulously cultivated his persona. *That,* I buy. > > As would Dylan himself I suspect. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:52:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Subject: RE: DYLAN: MONDAY and TUESDAY NIGHTS, njc - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > ... also what I loved is that the edits showed me a different > side of > Dylan, so straight forward currently, so young & honest (& not so > caustic) & > not getting why all those people were asking him such idiotic > questions like > what are you trying to say when he already said it in his songs... Hi Kate, I was struck by this also. I couldn't believe the idiocy of the questions. And I felt he was mostly very VERY polite in trying not be too sarcastic. But you know, I think Bob has a wicked and warped sense of humor and it was probably really hard to be "good". Like the one that asked (paraphrasing) "how many protest singers are there now?"....and Bob just can't HELP himself from answering "ummmmm, 136". I can soooooo understand his need to do that. It would have been irresistable - the urge to come back with that. And yet, I found his answers very good-natured, not snide or mean. Also, people were so INTENSE to him..like the one guy that asked about the cover to Highway 61. Why oh why must there have been a secret "meaning" to that album cover??? what was the deal with trying to assign literal meanings to such spacey stuff? LOL!!!! I don't get it! Poor Bob, by the end of the 2nd half last nite, I understood much better what his burn out was about. I think there's been the tendency to chalk up his "absense" in the late 60's to the motorcycle accident...but I really have a feeling he was just burnt out on the biz, and wanted to settle down and have babies and be a natural man for a while. Last nite's show really showed well, I think, the nature of his burn out. I'm glad he survived. Glad for us, and glad for him! I so enjoy sensing his "life force". There's a glow to him. And I totally understand and accept that some people don't see it, and I respect that. But for me, he walks on water. (at least until he starts sinking) oh and also, he'll know his song wellllllllll before he starts singin'. I have no real desire to see him in concert anymore, but I'm glad he's out there, still doing what he was apparently born to do. His passion reminds me of the Maggie Fitzgerald character in "Million Dollar Baby". What a blessing to find something, ANYTHING in this life that you love doing sooooo much that you are nearly posessed in your drive to do it. She said, "If I was thinking straight I'd go back home, find a used trailer, buy a deep fryer and some oreos. Problem is, this the only thing I ever felt good doing. If I'm too old for this then I got nothing. That enough truth to suit you"? So maybe being a "song and dance man" is the only thing Bob ever felt good doing.... so I am happy to have benefited by it so well! :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:07:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni on the soccer field/Hearing Voices As long as it's not "Catherine, go to the kitchen and fix me an egg" or i would have to say you both hear voices, which is fine by me, i hear everything, including God, bit he sounds just like a moron. Say,Catherine, do you hear JONI's voice singing in your head or YOUR OWN? I once spoke to a Doctor, that assured me time and again, that people do not hear themeselves talking to some inner ear when thinking. Was he insane or what?:) Nuri Catherine McKay wrote: However, I can heartily agree with "hearing" Joni in my head at times, so hearing Joni on the soccer field, or anywhere else for that matter, makes a great deal of sense to me. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:47:31 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] No Tofu Today For JVT's Birthday! Happy Birthday Uncle John! Hope you had a wonderful day, Love Donna >>> johnsonjs100@comcast.net 9/24/2005 2:58:07 PM >>> Happy Birthday to our Uncle John Van Tiel, the Original Dutch Treat!!!! Jody and Scott xoooooooooooBig Hug! YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "NortheastJonifest" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:41:22 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: rambling, njc Hi Ya'll, Ramblin' out to the wild northwest, leavin' the town that I love the best, thought I'd seen some ups and downs 'til I come into Berryville town, valleys goin' down to the ground, mountains reaching up to the sky. Going deep into the Arkansas northeast woods to a place off a dirt road I have sometimes gotten lost trying to find. Gonna sing and dance and take a chance. Catch ya'll later. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:55:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Late Show - Rickie Lee and nothing but Rickie Lee njc Mark! Thank you for the transcendent review! Its sounds similar to the show she did here early this last year. I've seen here a few times, before this year it was always with a band, mostly in her heyday. I agree, it was incredibly wonderful to hear her doing the solo singer songwriter type show in such an intimate venue. She pulled it off perfectly & I never missed the band which is testament to her ability to mesmerize the audience. So happy to share a mutual admiration with you & a few others here regarding ms jones. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni on the soccer field/Hearing Voices now njc - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > As long as it's not "Catherine, go to the kitchen > and fix me an egg" or i would have to say you both > hear voices, which is fine by me, ... or as long as it's not saying, "Kiiiillll, kiiiilllll, KILL!" then I suppose it's all right too. i hear everything, > including God, bit he sounds just like a moron. That explains it. Supposedly we were made in his image, weren't we? > Say,Catherine, do you hear JONI's voice singing in > your head or YOUR OWN? > I once spoke to a Doctor, that assured me time and > again, that people do not hear themeselves talking > to some inner ear when thinking. Was he insane or > what?:) I hear different songs in my head from time to time, some Joni's, some other people's (the worst is when it's a song/singer that you can't stand), sometimes the songs are in the original singer's voice, sometimes someone else's, sometimes they are possibly original songs that I'm making up, but that I never remember later on. I'm not sure if we really "hear" these voices, because it's not like someone standing there talking to you, but it's a perception of hearing - it certainly is language though, and not just images. People who speak more than one language are sometimes asked which language they think in. I often wonder what goes on in the minds of babies, who can't speak yet (do they think in images? sounds without words? smells?), or in the minds of pets, who cannot speak but who nevertheless make sounds. And I find the entire concept of reading very interesting. It's a visual medium where our brain picks up images that represent sounds or whole words that give us an idea of what the writer is expressing, but often without our having to make a sound (unless you're reading aloud). Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:46:32 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: voices NJC One of the nice things about France Fest, for me, was not only to meet people I had already corresponded with, but also to see them, and hear them 'in the flesh', as it were. I was reminded about this when I read a comment of Garret's this morning. He said something (exactly) like "Wasn't Antony amazing on that show?" and also said in another mail, "I could not believe how utterly lifeless it sounded". Now that I have met Garret and enjoyed our conversations, I can hear his voice when I read these sentences, particularly on the words 'amazing' and 'believe' in these sentences. The same thing happens with other people I spent time with, Bob Muller, John Van Tiel, Emiliano, Lucy and more. This is just one more wonderful thing about the fest. Thanks again, Laurent, for getting it together. mike in barcelona NP - Albert Bover - Esmuc Blues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:52:49 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: ebert on dylan film njc On 9/27/05, Bob Muller wrote: > > I can see why - not enough time to do both. > I watched it, it was brilliant. Les Irvin, what say ye? I've only seen the first half, but I thought it was brilliant as well. I find Ebert's comments about Dylan in Don't Look Back as "immature, petty, vindictive, lacking a sense of humor, overly impressed with his own importance and not very bright" interesting. If a person knew nothing of Dylan and watched that film they may very well come to the same conclusion. At the time, he was a 23-24 year old kid, thrust into this blinding limelight probably without the maturity to handle it. Jump ahead 40 years to this film... Immediately, I was completely floored by Dylan's almost total lack of ego. He seems aware that he did something no one else has ever done, yet never fails to have respect and admiration for those who influenced and helped him along the way. It was very endearing to see. The included unreleased 1966 concert footage is amazing. I don't see an arrogance there either (just a year after Don't Look Back) but, rather, a person completely confident in what he's doing and defiant to those in opposition. The way he begins "Ballad of a Thin Man" and spits out "there's something happening here and you don't know what it is" after being pelted with insults from the audience sent chills down my spine! No novelist could ever invent a more moving and thrilling scenario than that. I think those who dislike or "don't get" Dylan should watch this film. Might change some opinions. Are you listening Ashara?? :-) Les NP: Pat Metheny - "James" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:01:38 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: ebert on dylan film njc On 9/28/05, Deb Messling wrote: > > I think the film was edited to foster the view that Dylan possessed > some sort of wisdom denied ordinary mortals of the time, and I don't buy > it, personally. > I disagree with this assessment of the tone of the film. But, if this is in fact true, it was Dylan himself who throughout the film tried to dispel that very notion. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:06:52 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: KT Tunstall njc Well I would have to agree with Sam to an extent on that one Lucy, Jeff over Elkie any day. BUT, the best version, of course, is by Nina Simone. I think the Jeff Buckley version is quite true to this version. You may argue;-) Don't talk to me about broadband black hole-dom (what a phrase)... when i returned from the Jonifest i had access to the net for about four days and was then offline for weeks - just when the pictures began to pour in! Problems with network adapters and wireless routers followed and now the computer is in the same room as the TV which is pretty annoying. GARRET NP- Seth Lakeman, Cape Clear Quoting Lucy Hone : > Katie Melua YUCK..."closest thing to crazy" just not my thing .... .. > clever, though. You have to hand it to her. She didnt speak English > until 8 years ago, came in from the Georgian Republic etc.,(I think that > is her background) but thanks but no thanks... and Lilac Wine for me > will always be sung by Elkie Brooks, although Sam would argue that the > best version is Jeff Buckley........ > > but Ms Tunstall is up there with some of the best I have heard... just > hit the spot for genre, voice, talent. She reminds me of a cross between > Natalie Merchant and Kate Rusby.... > > Queen Lulu back from broadband black hole-dom..... > > NP Big Black Horse and the Cherry Tree... > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:18:58 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc On 9/28/05, Jerry Notaro wrote: > > Compare a Beatles press conference of the time vs. Dylan's. Both > needed the press, and The Beatles gave them what they wanted. It was a > game. > You want to say that Dylan never wanted to play the game, but he did. He > didn't have to meet up with the popular press. Gee, even Joni Mitchell, in 1998 at the release of Taming the Tiger, commented how frustrating and tedious it was to be required to "run the gamut of the press". Dylan, under the clutches of power-hungry Albert Grossman at the time, really had no choice but to do these press conferences. I think his attitude at these events points directly to the fact that he did not want to do them. If he was truly interested in his "image', wouldn't he have attempted to build that up rather than tear it down? Back then, he called himself "just a song and dance man". You know, Dylan has given maybe one or two press conferences (heck, maybe even zero, I'm not sure) in the past 40 years. I have never witnessed ANY artist so completely and utterly unconcerned with his image. I don't understand how anyone can accuse him of playing any games. Les, passionate about His Bobness ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:22:36 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc On 9/28/05, I wrote: > > I don't understand how anyone can accuse him of playing any games. > Correction: I meant to say: I don't understand how anyone can accuse him of stroking his own ego. Games, yes. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:57:01 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: FU ( bumper) sticker NJC I like the stickers which have only two letters..for instance: NH would be New Hampshire... HI would be Hawaiii..and so on. I don't like to adorn my car with anything but I would a JM sticker. And a very dear loved one suggested a FU sticker. Enjoyed the Dylan doc on PBS. Marianne and I want to discover him together. I know a little more of his music than she. It should be fun. Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:49:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc Les Irvin wrote: > You know, Dylan has given maybe one or two press conferences (heck, maybe > even zero, I'm not sure) in the past 40 years. I have never witnessed ANY > artist so completely and utterly unconcerned with his image. I don't > understand how anyone can accuse him of playing any games. Let's be honest, Les. No one gets to where Dylan has gotten on genius alone. You have to play plenty of games to some extent. You have to go places you don't want, talk to people you don't want to, etc. I didn't say he was being dishonest, but there is a duality as there is with Joni. She claims not to be interested in the business, but few have held a tighter rein on a catalog. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:15:56 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc On 9/28/05, Gerald A. Notaro wrote: > > Let's be honest, Les. No one gets to where Dylan has gotten on genius > alone. You have to play plenty of games to some extent. You have to go > places you don't want, talk to people you don't want to, etc. Yes indeed. And Dylan did that up to 1966. Since then, he has been relentlessly unconcerned with his image. One of his first acts was to release Self Portrait, a self-parody, in an attempt to destroy the very image that had been created of him. Rolling Stone's review of the album began with the line "What is this shit??" He came out with the low-key "John Wesley Harding" as the Beatles were doing 'Sergeant Pepper". At the last minute, he removed finished cuts from what may have been his most brilliant album ever (Infidels) and filled it with comparatively second-rate outtakes. This is exactly what both frustrates and endears this guy to so many people. His complete unwillingness to cater to public opinion, and his complete lack of respect for the image of himself that others want to force upon him. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:31 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: ebert on dylan film njc What lost me was Ebert's comment that the film did not touch on drug use. Sounds minor but: we all know that Dylan toked, and that Dylan is the one who turned George Harrison on, or was it Dylan's dentist, anyway, I am not talking about drug use being "bad" or "good" but it was reality. You can't talk about Joplin or Hendrix or Morrison without reference to drugs, nor the Beatles, nor Woodtsock, nor Johhny Cash, nor Dylan. So why was it left out? I have no idea. But to leave something out so vital to the story says the film was not complete, or may even have been santized or trying to present a sanitized Dylan. And then Ebert in his very thorough review mentioned something I had not thought of - Dylan was not at Woodstock. The whole Dylan as counter counter culture thing that Ebert referred to says that if I want to know more about Dylan, I would not watch this film but I would look for an in depth book. And for other things Ebert said. Ebert took his time to write that review and considered very carefully an icon of the generation. Ebert's review makes me want to know about Dylan and what Ebert did not say but was my opinion was that I would not find that knowledge in this movie. So I watched a baseball game instead. Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- > On 9/27/05, Bob Muller wrote: > > > > I can see why - not enough time to do both. > > I watched it, it was brilliant. Les Irvin, what say ye? > Les Irvin says ye as follows:> > I've only seen the first half, but I thought it was brilliant as well. > > I find Ebert's comments about Dylan in Don't Look Back as "immature, petty, > vindictive, lacking a sense of humor, overly impressed with his own > importance and not very bright" interesting. If a person knew nothing of > Dylan and watched that film they may very well come to the same conclusion. > At the time, he was a 23-24 year old kid, thrust into this blinding > limelight probably without the maturity to handle it. > > Jump ahead 40 years to this film... Immediately, I was completely floored by > Dylan's almost total lack of ego. He seems aware that he did something no > one else has ever done, yet never fails to have respect and admiration for > those who influenced and helped him along the way. It was very endearing to > see. > > The included unreleased 1966 concert footage is amazing. I don't see an > arrogance there either (just a year after Don't Look Back) but, rather, a > person completely confident in what he's doing and defiant to those in > opposition. The way he begins "Ballad of a Thin Man" and spits out "there's > something happening here and you don't know what it is" after being pelted > with insults from the audience sent chills down my spine! No novelist could > ever invent a more moving and thrilling scenario than that. > > I think those who dislike or "don't get" Dylan should watch this film. Might > change some opinions. Are you listening Ashara?? :-) > > Les > > NP: Pat Metheny - "James" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:12:04 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Ebert on Dylan film njc But let's also be honest in saying that, though he's had some remarkably fallow periods, Dylan has fairly recently produced superb albums of new material like Love and Theft and Time Out of Mind and tours constantly (and the 2005 shows are among his best in recent memory), while Joni has given us mostly retreads and no performances since 2000. The Scorsese film makes it clear that Dylan calculated his rise to stardom, and it makes it equally clear what a toll that stardom exacted. Of course both of them stoked the star-maker machinery. That Dylan continues to be a productive artist makes him still very interesting to his fans, that Joni has discontinued being a productive artist means that even die-hard fans like me begin to lose interest. (No, I don't think her decision to live in a box of paints makes her an interesting artist, because, face it, she's a true artist only as a musician and songwriter.) Ducking for cover, Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Gerald A. Notaro Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:49 PM To: Les Irvin Cc: Jerry Notaro; Deb Messling; Joni List Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc Les Irvin wrote: > You know, Dylan has given maybe one or two press conferences (heck, maybe > even zero, I'm not sure) in the past 40 years. I have never witnessed ANY > artist so completely and utterly unconcerned with his image. I don't > understand how anyone can accuse him of playing any games. Let's be honest, Les. No one gets to where Dylan has gotten on genius alone. You have to play plenty of games to some extent. You have to go places you don't want, talk to people you don't want to, etc. I didn't say he was being dishonest, but there is a duality as there is with Joni. She claims not to be interested in the business, but few have held a tighter rein on a catalog. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Ebert on Dylan film njc - --- Richard Flynn wrote: I > don't think her > decision to live in a box of paints makes her an > interesting artist, > because, face it, she's a true artist only as a > musician and songwriter.) > > Ducking for cover, > Richard > Oh well, let me climb under the cover with you, then. While I respect Joni's wish to paint, not write music, and while I like some of her paintings well enough, I'm not sure they'd make it into art galleries were it not for her fame achieved in music. Having said that, I've seen some pretty weird stuff in art galleries too, but am not sure if the artists in question are making their living off it. I'm not sure if Joan has suggested living off her painting either (and am not suggesting you're saying that). I think of it more as the enjoyable hobby she had all along and that she's now devoting more time to as she has retired. Fortunately she can afford the material - art supplies are expensive. If that sounds catty, it's not meant to be. I'm not a huge fan of her artwork and couldn't afford it anyway, so it's moot. I like it well enough, but that's about it. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:45:07 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: fun news NJC Tom Delay was indicted today. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:17:02 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Ebert on Dylan film njc > But let's also be honest in saying that, though he's had some remarkably > fallow periods, Dylan has fairly recently produced superb albums of new > material like Love and Theft and Time Out of Mind and tours constantly (and > the 2005 shows are among his best in recent memory), while Joni has given us > mostly retreads and no performances since 2000. > > The Scorsese film makes it clear that Dylan calculated his rise to stardom, > and it makes it equally clear what a toll that stardom exacted. > > Of course both of them stoked the star-maker machinery. That Dylan > continues to be a productive artist makes him still very interesting to his > fans, that Joni has discontinued being a productive artist means that even > die-hard fans like me begin to lose interest. (No, I don't think her > decision to live in a box of paints makes her an interesting artist, > because, face it, she's a true artist only as a musician and songwriter.) > > Ducking for cover, > Richard No Bombs from me, Richard. My statements are not at all meant to be criticisms of Bob. Love and Theft and Time Out of Mind are better than anything Joni has written or produced in a very long time. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:20:02 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Close To the Edge/NJC Hey Bob I'm waaay behind on my digests, and have only just found this thread. I return to this album regularly too. I remember buying it on the same day as my best friend bought Black Sabbath's 'Paranoid'. We took our new purchases back to his folks place and played them on their lounge stereo. Black Sabbath went down a lot better than 'Close To The Edge' with his folks! People talk about self indulgence but I think at least 'And You And I' and 'Siberian Khatru' are pretty tight. There are so many beautifully interwoven ideas in these two songs, I can't imagine a more concise arrangement that would be as good. Also, I see no reason why a rock song should be 3 minutes long. Why write a short story if you have a novel in you? I seem to remember that at the 'premier' outing of one of his works, Mozart was told that there were "Too many notes." ;0) M. > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:27:28 -0700 (PDT) > From: Bob Muller > Subject: Re: Close To the Edge/NJC > > > > It was the CD, so it only has one side that plays! > > But to more correctly address the question, it was the first track on the CD, which is the entire first side of the LP, parts 1-4, 18:50 in length. > This CD is incredible from start to finish, starting with the title suite and followed by And You & I & Siberian Khatru; boy it just doesn't get much better in the world of prog-rock albums. > > Bob > > NP: Red Hot Chili Peppers, "Universally Speaking" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:18:19 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] No Tofu Today For JVT's Birthday! John! I spoke with you and Claudia on the phone today, and neither of you mentioned that it's your birthday?? Well. I'll just have to give you a birthday hug when I see you on Saturday. Hoping it's a lovely one, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:18:58 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: fun news NJC > Tom Delay was indicted today. Oooh! That IS fun!! Thanks, Vince! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:23:40 -0400 From: vince Subject: better than dylan http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B00005Q8UG/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/002-4076425-9148841?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=music read the reviews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:18:17 -0400 From: vince Subject: sorry forgot the njc tag, sorry folks vince wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B00005Q8UG/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/002-4076425-9148841?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=music > > > > read the reviews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:50:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Joni MIA again I will start this with the usual disclaimer -- since I don't read every post I don't know if this has been discussed already. Anyway, the new Herbie Hancock CD is out (the one with lots of guest artists). And though numerous sources indicated Joni would appear on the CD, she doesn't. What's up? I was looking forward to this as perhaps one of Joni's final recorded performances -- but perhaps we've already had that, unfortunately. http://www.herbiehancock.com Bryan - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:10:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Close To the Edge/NJC Damn straight...I've heard 3-minute songs that NEVER seemed to end, and 10 minute songs (like Ani's "Pulse") that seem to end way too quickly. And it's one of the reasons that I love Red House Painters, you lose yourself in the song and then notice that it's 8 or nine minutes long. And you're right, Close To The Edge is very much a rule-breaker like that, always seems like it's ended too soon for me. Bob NP: Cassandra Wilson, "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:13:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: better than dylan NJC Wow, that's a slice of bizarro world all right; but he's huge in Europe or something so I read somewhere. What smoked my brain was at the bottom of the page where it said there were 95 reviews! Why? Did he pay all these people off? Or maybe it's all from the same guy, just logged in as different ID's. In any event, I ain't adding that one to my collection. I can't go for that, no can do. Bob NP: John Mellencamp,"They're So Tough" vince wrote: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B00005Q8UG/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/002-4076425-9148841?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=music read the reviews - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:53:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: better than dylan NJC - --- Bob Muller wrote: > Did he pay all these people off? Or maybe it's all > from the same guy, just logged in as different ID's. I didn't read them all, but it certainly sounds like the same guy wrote a lot of them. The writing style is very similar. Or else a bunch of guys with the same warped sense of humour, playing off one another. > In any event, I ain't adding that one to my > collection. I can't go for that, no can do. > What if there were a Joni cover on it? heh-heh-heh. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:56:31 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: better than dylan NJC Bob wrote: > Wow, that's a slice of bizarro world all right; > but he's huge in Europe or something so I read > somewhere. What smoked my brain was at the bottom > of the page where it said there were 95 reviews! > Why? Did he pay all these people off? Or maybe > it's all from the same guy, just logged in as > different ID's. I suspect you might be spot on with that comment. I read a few of the reviews, and they are hilarious, and I'm sure written with tongue VERY firmly planted in cheek. Here's a couple of examples: "David Hassehoff may not be Richard Dean Anderson, Geraldo Rivera, not even Tony Danza, but he surely is the savior of the music industry, a man who truly dares to go where no other has gone." "David's dulcet tones have raised the bar for musical performers across the globe. Juxtaposed magnificently with synthesizer chords that penetrate the sheer essence of the soul, his voice rips open a chest of emotions with the raw brutality of a Stormtrooper ripping through the flesh of a Russian peasant with his bayonet." "If 'The Very Best Of...' is a steamy night of passion with a mysterious stranger, then 'Hot Shot City' is the moment of simultaneous climax before they don their robes and leave you, spent and lonely, in a motel bedroom in Canada." Hell ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #371 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)