From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #338 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, September 3 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 338 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Redux Joni and the Magi NJC [vince ] Re: (NJC) Letter from Michael Moore ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Gift of The Magi [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: joni covers vol 68 ["mike pritchard" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #337 [Lucatello Adriano ] Re: joni covers vol 68 - Crawl back under the covers [Bob Muller ] Re: (NJC) Political content [Lori Fye ] Joni & the Magi & Christian imagry [vince ] Re: MIchael Moore's letter [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Michael Moore's letter NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Political content [Em ] Re: (NJC) Political content [Em ] re: (NJC) - Political Content ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: (NJC) Political content [jrmco1@aol.com] re: The Gift of the Magi ["mia ortlieb" ] Alanis's JLP (The New version) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni Covers, Volume 68 - Oy Vey! [Nuriel Tobias ] re: (NJC) - Political Content [Debra Shea ] NYTimes.com: Mayor C. Ray Nagin's Interview NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] NJC White House phone number [Debra Shea ] re: (NJC) - Political Content [Bob Muller ] NJC News Flash - Homos to Blame! [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 03:50:07 -0400 From: vince Subject: Redux Joni and the Magi NJC The Magi were the rabbinic scholars who remained in the Jewish once-forced exile in Babylon following the exile that ended under Darius and Cyrus of Persia, the descendants of those who did not return to Judea after the Persians conquered Babylon. Under the cultural influence of the Persians. the Babylonia rabbinic scholars (ok, "rabbinic" is a bit premature historically, let's say scholars of Torah and the developing Prime Covenant canon, which some of them were writing and redacting) developed an interest in the zodiac that did not take hold outside ancient Mesopotamia and died out when the Babylonia Jewish community did. It was through the Persians after all that the Babylonian Jews were introduced to Zoroastrians and Zorostrianism (a movement that did not survive the fall of the Second Temple.) They were scholars of Torah and the prophets and the writings that were current in year four of Before the Common Era (sometimes called 4 BC). The Matthewian account of Magi is surely mythological in a theological sense but an essential proclamation of the kerygma of the Gospel in the late 1st century of the Common Era. The message of the mythological account is what is true, not the lack of historicity of the event. The mythological Magi were not spacemen or anything other. That is just bullshit aka the National Enquirer mode. Joni's lyrics are far more steeped in Christian imagery and symbology and infused with Scriptural concepts than most folks will acknowledge. She was a person who had a quick and sharp intellect when she attended events and learned at her childhood and teen congregation(s), and with what she has learned since. The same was true of T. S. Eliot, a profoundly Christian poet. O. Henry, T. S. Eliot, and Joni all drew from the same source: Matthew 2. To ignore the source in a post-Christian non religious era (which we are - - rightly- in) does not enable historical, source, literary, and redactive criticism. Remember that Mark and John (Christian gospels) have no nativity accounts and Luke's account does not allow for the Magi, it is a particularly Matthewian interpolation. That in itself is the message and what O Henry, T S Eliot, and Joni followed. It is not more nor less than that. Jon is an artist that took Eucharistic understandings of the wine and informed "A Case of You" with sacramental theology to express her relationship with the physical/carnal lover subject of A Case of You, which is what lifts that song to an expression of sacramental (the word made flesh, the word made visible, in the act of love making as basic as the orgasm: I could drink a case of you" because "you fill my blood like holy wine, so bitter and so sweet" and thus recast what could be just another trite long song into the realm where it is transcendent in its overarching connection of love with the divine - which is why so many singers, who misunderstand, wail away on "O Canada" (a geographic placement, nothing more ) which detracts from the spirituality and utter devotion and complete oneness of the love with - what, O Canada, and misses what is said prior by the discounting of the Christian imagery and spirituality. Joni grasped what few have: that the sexual act in love is sacramental. And in her brilliance, she expressed it in a gender-non specific wording that says that all sexual actions in a deep abiding love communion of two where we can drink physically of each other in purest biological emittances is yet the ultimate in the love made carnal (flesh) in the highest spiritual union of two souls - and then take us to the tragedy of that probable ending - she could drink a case of her lover, and still stand for more, and yet we know, it will not happen. That is imagery and allusion used as only the greatest of verbalists can do - a trait she shares with Eliot as well as with O Henry. Joni may or may not be a Christian and no question is less relevant. She was raised as one and in her intelligence took the archetypes and themes of the Scriptures and infused her lyrics with those, for deeply spiritual and perhaps purely cultural reasons, or perhaps because that very imagery informed what she wanted to say. In that sense she takes us to a 19th century ethic where Christian allusions and allegory could compose the most secular of writings because that was a common collection of stories current in the culture. Please always given Joni her due as a Christian imagist. She is one of the best of the 20th century, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:25:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: (NJC) Letter from Michael Moore rr>here is Bush at a photo-op with his new custom-made guitar with inlaid presidential seal. Even beginners will recognize his fingering-a G chord.....on the wrong fret. http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/fiddles.jpg< lol, finally. Look at the (guitar tech? teacher?) behind him... quite worried at what mr b is doing whilst oblivious... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:39:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content I think that it is totally appropriate to be seething with anger at the ineptitude of our gov't to help its poor while we cry with empathy & do our very best to help those who are suffering in this disaster. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:21:21 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Gift of The Magi On 03/09/2005, at 5:00 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > didn't you go to Sunday School? Actually, no I did not go to Sunday School. Why would you assume I am Christian? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:38:45 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: joni covers vol 68 >>8. Brad Mehldau - Roses Blue: Now THIS one is anything but boring! Famed jazz pianist Mehldau turns in a spell-binding tour de force on one of Joni's most haunting melodies, improvising but never creating a huge distance from Joni's melodic structure. Though you'd never think so (until the end), this is a live recording from his "Live In Tokyo" release; sadly, this is only available as a bonus track on the Japanese release.<< The sharp-eyed ones amongst you will / may have noticed that Brad Mehldau is probably the NP that appears most on my posts. I think he is a wonderful pianist and composer. My interest is compounded by the fact that he has played and recorded many times in Barcelona, frequently with the Rossi brothers and Perico Sanbeat. and I think Jorge Rossy is still his preferred drummer, although Larry Grenadier is his regular bass player. His 'Art of the Trio' series is up to volume 5, and there are solo CDs too. There are many joni links, he guested with Wayne Shorter in 2001 I think, and half of his first record is a trio including Brian Blade on drums. Nick Drake fans on the list may be interested in Brad's version of 'River Man', which appears at least twice in Brad's work. Any chance of a 'yousend it' version of 'Roses Blue', covermeister? mike in bcn NP Brad Mehldau - Secret Love (one of the very few show tunes that Muller and Ashara didn't grace us with at Francefest) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:47:11 +0200 From: Lucatello Adriano Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #337 On 3 Sep 2005, at 08:35, JMDL Digest wrote: > > Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:44:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: Catherine McKay > Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 68 - Oy Vey! > > - --- Bob Muller wrote: > >> OK, so I'm a day late & a dollar short...I mean, >> it's not like anyone really READS these things >> anyway, right? >> > > Wrong-o! I read 'em faithfully, because they make me > laugh and I never cease to be amazed by how many of > these suckers there are, especially the lame versions > of BSN. > > Catherine > Toronto > Me too, me too... I am still stuck at Volume 24... John (NL), can you hear me? ;-) and I am amazed to see how you manage to carry on with your worthy task, thanks Bob... really. Adriano NP: Crazy Man Michael - Fairport Convention - Liege and Lief (thanks Queen Lulu!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: joni covers vol 68 - Crawl back under the covers You got it, Mike - I was actually going to send it yesterday, but Nate was using the computer to burn a stack of Dylan, Stones, and other CD's that he's been listening to all summer before we move him back to college today. So anyway, here 'tis...it's probably a fairly long download as the track is 8:17, but as has been said it is mesmerizing: http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0C7SO058QB4YX2JGWDN8KOXO9Z Bob Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:21:21 -0400 From: "JR" Subject: Re: Gift of The Magi - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark-Leon Thorne" To: Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 5:21 AM Subject: Re: Gift of The Magi > On 03/09/2005, at 5:00 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > > didn't you go to Sunday School? > > Actually, no I did not go to Sunday School. Why would you assume I am > Christian? > > Mark in Sydney Didn't you notice the wink and smiles underneath it? It was a line from Raiders of the Lost Ark, said by Indiana Jones to the gov't men when the subject of the Ark of the Covenant came up and they appeared clueless, where he asked them "Didn't you go to Sunday School?" A little obscure, but I'm sorry you missed it! JR in NH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:42:30 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content > Oh! I like unicorns, rainbows and little cute puppies! > Jeez, take your head outta yer ass, will ya? WHOA. Back up. Em is one of my dear friends here, on another list, and in the "real" world. Maybe you didn't realize what she was saying TO ME, but I did. There's no call for slams like the above. Em and everyone here realize this is serious shit. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:43:52 -0400 From: vince Subject: Joni & the Magi & Christian imagry I just realized I posted this originally as njc and it is very JC so I repost after editing since I wrote the other in the wee hours of the morning - Vince The Magi were the rabbinic scholars who remained in the Jewish once-forced diaspora/exile in Babylon after the fall of Jerusalem circa 586 BCE. Following the end of the Exilic under Darius and Cyrus of Persia, many of the Babylonia Jewish community went on a second exodus to Judea. The Magi were descendants of those who did not return to Judea following the Persians conquering Babylon. Under the cultural influence of the Persians. the Babylonia rabbinic scholars (ok, "rabbinic" is a bit premature historically, let's say scholars of Torah and the developing Prime Covenant canon, which some of them were writing and redacting) developed an interest in the zodiac that did not take hold within what became Judaism outside ancient Mesopotamia, and said interest died out when the Babylonian Jewish community did. It was through the Persians that the Babylonian Jews were introduced to Zoroastrians and Zorostrianism (a movement that did not survive the fall of the Second Temple.) They were scholars of Torah and the prophets and the writings that were current in year four of Before the Common Era (sometimes called 4 BC). The Matthewian account of Magi is surely mythological in a theological sense but an essential proclamation of the kerygma of the Gospel in the late 1st century of the Common Era. The message of the mythological account is what is true, not the lack of historicity of the event. The mythological Magi were not spacemen or anything other. That is just bullshit aka the National Enquirer mode. Joni's lyrics are far more steeped in Christian imagery and symbology and infused with Scriptural concepts than usually acknowledged. She was a person who had a quick and sharp intellect when she attended events and learned at her childhood and teen congregation(s), and with what she has learned since. The same was true of T. S. Eliot, a profoundly Christian poet. O. Henry, T. S. Eliot, and Joni all drew from the same source: Matthew 2. To ignore the Biblical sources in this post-Christian non religious era (which we are - rightly- in) does not enable historical, source, literary, and redactive critical studies of anything, with Scriptural and Biblical influences, including the Mitchell oeuvre. Remember that Mark and John (Christian gospels) have no nativity accounts and Luke's account does not allow for the Magi, the Magi are a particularly Matthewian interpolation. That in itself is the message and what O Henry, T S Eliot, and Joni followed. Jon is an artist that took Eucharistic understandings of the wine and informed "A Case of You" with sacramental theology to express her relationship with the physical/carnal lover subject of A Case of You, which is what lifts that song to an expression of sacramental (the word made flesh, the word made visible, in the act of love making as basic as the orgasm: I could drink a case of you" because "you fill my blood like holy wine, so bitter and so sweet" and thus recast what could be just another trite long song into the realm where it is transcendent in its overarching connection of love with the divine - Joni grasped what few have: that the sexual act in love is sacramental. And in her brilliance, she expressed it in a gender-non specific wording that says that all sexual actions in a deep abiding love communion of two where we can drink physically of each other in purest biological emittances is yet the ultimate in the love made carnal (flesh) in the highest spiritual union of two souls - and then take us to the tragedy of that probable ending - she could drink a case of her lover, and still stand for more, and yet we know, it will not happen. That is imagery and allusion used as only the greatest of verbalists can do - a trait she shares with Eliot as well as with O Henry. Joni may or may not be a Christian and no question is less relevant. She was raised as one and in her intelligence took the archetypes and themes of the Scriptures and infused her lyrics with those, for deeply spiritual and perhaps purely cultural reasons, or perhaps because that very imagery informed what she wanted to say. In that sense she takes us to a 19th century ethic where Christian allusions and allegory could compose the most secular of writings because that was a common collection of stories and shared sources current in the culture. Please always given Joni her due as a Christian imagist. She is one of the best of the 20th century, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:22:45 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: MIchael Moore's letter Bree wrote: We as a country are spoiled rotten....and this is part or even most of the problem down there..instead pulling together SOMe of the victims are raping....murdering.....robbing ..looting..... Hi Bree, Yes, we are spoiled, the upper classes are. The people in New Orleans who are stuck there are not in those classes. Most were too poor to evacuate before the hurricane without owning cars and not being able to afford renting a hotel north of the city, etc. New Orleans has always had a large population of drug addicts and without their drugs now, it is not surprising they are getting violent. Just the heat alone down there could make a person lose their mind. This is the hottest part of the year in the south. I don't know how they are making it down there and don't blame the ones who aren't and who are crazy. I know you have roots in Kentucky, but it is not deep south. You can't imagine the extreme heat unless you have lived deep in the heart of Dixie. We've had temps over 100 F consistently this month here in Arkansas, and from having lived in Mobile, I know the heat is even more intense down there. The question where are our helicopters and why weren't there air drops of supplies right after the hurricane? are THE questions I have been asking too. We live just south of the largest army base in Arkansas, and I haven't seen nor heard any helicopters... I did when the war started. The Iraq war is the luxury of a rich/spoiled leadership... not a last resort effort. Now we are feeling the cost even greater. It wouldn't have been possible to war with Iraq if this national tragedy had occurred prior to the decision to go to war with Iraq. It is now blatantly obvious how we really can't afford the war. The helicopters should have been busy moving our people to safety this whole week. This is tragedy upon tragedy. It is another debt the war has raised. And, this debt is not able to be as hidden as the war dead and the national debt. We are going to see change as the result of this crisis... major change. This is going to cause a revolution in the minds and hearts of the majority of the people. The truth is the truth and this tragedy makes even more clear the truth that we could not afford to go to war with Iraq. This tragedy will not be forgotten. Poverty is real in this country as is the disease of addiction. These social sicknesses can't be ignored nor can the results be blamed on the people who are now suffering in New Orleans. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:39:42 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Michael Moore's letter NJC Bree wrote: But this letter from him has nothing to do with anything really .except he still is fuming because ..dare I say...BUSH WON! The election is over .....Bush won! Get over it!!!! Hi Bree, I have been hearing this "Bush Won" thing again. In my opinion it is a technique to get his supporters not to look at what is going on right now, to distract then from the real issues. This tragedy and how it has been dealt with isn't about the election. It is about injustice occurring in our country right NOW. Please, don't let your heart be harden and your mind be distracted by cliches like "Bush won." Nobody disagrees that GW is the President of the United States of America. And nobody can disagree that because of the war, our rescue resources have been very limited and our people in New Orleans are dying as a result. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:40:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content JR! dang man, that was harsh! I wasn't talking about that fuzzy wuzzy stuff like you mentioned. Not at all. But I was heartened to hear of the hellified human efforts some people are making. Some people who have had opportunities to walk away - turn tail, in other words...but they chose to stay in New Orleans and help well beyond the call of duty. Thinking specifically of the nurses and other medical staff at some of the hospitals in N.O. Working around the clock in horribkle conditions to save lives, and trying with a vengeance not to let anyone die. This in conditions where there is no water; and many other necessary things are "missing" too. Or the police officers who remained, despite being terrorized by what are probably admittedly a *few* revolutionary thugs. Yeah right. And hearing one woman cop say that she has to go forward and show compassion to people giving her a very hard time. I have been sort of wadded up into a tight seething knot for several days. Similar to Lori's feelings. But yesterday there was what I'd call a *bit* of good news, the National Guard finally making it in and more and more people finally being bussed out. A good thing! Also hearing some of the refugees describe how well they are being treated in Houston was very good. GOOD to hear a little satisfaction in their voices. So my personal ball was able to unwind just a bit last night. Fixing to read this article, sent to me by a former NO resident, a woman of color, who now works for the REd Cross. http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/09/01/katrina_race/ So, I'm gonna see what this has to say. I like Michael Moore too. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me to take my head out of my ass. You don't know me, you don't know my politics or how I feel about things (except maybe music). Just because I found a positive thing or 2 in the cesspool, doesn't mean my head is up my ass. thanks Em - --- JR wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Lori Fye" ; > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content > > > > Concentrate on the good stuff, k? maybe? > > Em > > Oh! I like unicorns, rainbows and little cute puppies! > Jeez, take your head outta yer ass, will ya? > This is SERIOUS SHIT and you wanna talk about sunsets?! > My hero? Michael Moore, because he's not afraid to show everyone (in > Fahrenheit 9/11) what a complete douchebag and moron Bush is. > W's not qualified for dog-catcher, much less the leader of the "free" > world. > There's a nice room in hell that awaits his cabal. > JR in NH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content Thanks Lori. Now I read Kate's response where she says its appropriate to be seething. Well I seethed for several days and needed to un-seeth for a few hours last evening. Maybe I'll re-seeth soon enough. Em - --- Lori Fye wrote: > > Oh! I like unicorns, rainbows and little cute puppies! > > Jeez, take your head outta yer ass, will ya? > > WHOA. Back up. Em is one of my dear friends here, on another list, > and in > the "real" world. Maybe you didn't realize what she was saying TO ME, > but I > did. There's no call for slams like the above. > > Em and everyone here realize this is serious shit. > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:42:56 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: (NJC) - Political Content Holy Crap! The info coming in regarding our government's inept preparedness is overwhelming! Why were we shooting looters? And why is it okay to drop troops in harm's way in Iraq, but we can't do the same in our very own country? Watching the Ted Koppel interview of the FEMA Director was also deeply disturbing to me. It was the first time I had ever seen Koppel on the verge of losing his cool. From Richard's post: <> This sucks!! .... and where were the Democrats during these appointments?? ... where was the outcry?? -- COWARDS!! <<2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country.">> Anybody know what the other two are? Inquiring minds want to know, Mia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:50:30 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content Thanks for directing me to this article re: New Orleans, Em. It's the most insightful piece I've read on the situation so far. Posting it in its entirety below. - -Julius - -------------------- Flushing Out the Ugly Truth The horror in New Orleans has exposed the nation's dirty secrets of race and poverty. Americans are ready to help. Will our leaders show the way? - - - - - - - - - - - - - Joan Walsh Sept. 1, 2005 | The nightmare in New Orleans has a lot to tell us about poverty: the desperate poverty of the city's African-American population, of course, but also the poverty of political debate in the U.S. today. The crisis unfolding before us -- dispossession, looting, people shooting at rescue workers, the president's dim response, and now, people dying in front of our eyes outside the Superdome -? rubs our noses in so much that's wrong in our country, it's excruciating to watch. But I'm especially struck by the inability of our existing political discourse to describe, let alone to solve, the intractable social problems that have come together in this flood whose proportions and portents seem almost biblical. Ever since the first looting photos made cable news I've felt sick, like here we go again, we're going to have a new round in the culture war about the poor. Are they victims, or barbarians? If Sean Hannity's attacking them, well, I sure as hell have to defend them. When right-wing pundit Neal Boortz is saying shoot them on sight, somebody has to say that's sick and crazy, right? Personally, with all the destruction in view on Tuesday and Wednesday, I couldn't be horrified by people stealing food; I didn't even care much about people running off with sneakers and beer and TVs. Looting Wal-Mart? I don't defend it, but what do we expect? These are desperately poor people who've been deliberately left behind, in so many senses of the word -- left behind by society, shut up in housing projects and hideous poverty, and now truly left behind by local and federal officials who failed to come up with an evacuation plan for people too poor and isolated to leave on their own. If looting Wal-Mart was the worst of it, I thought, we should consider ourselves lucky. But it wasn't. Thursday we saw people shooting at rescue helicopters (with guns they stole from Wal-Mart, perhaps?), at hospital supply trucks, at workers trying to evacuate the sick from hospitals, the horrifying next chapter in an already awful story. I started to feel like my indifference to yesterday's looting was morally lazy, a reflexive shrug at having to really think about the poor, who they are, why they are. What a crazy, depraved way to treat people who are trying to help. But having said that, we're not absolved from trying to understand and reckon with the chaos. Like it or not, this crisis is going to be with us for a long time, because it's been coming for a long time -? we're going to have to face issues of race, poverty and civil rights we've long chosen to ignore. As I watched buses make their way from the Superdome to the Astrodome in Houston, in a surreal and perverse echo of the Freedom Rides of the '60s, a few thoughts were inescapable. Why didn't we send a caravan of buses into the city's poorest neighborhoods on Saturday or Sunday, when the dimensions of the disaster were already predictable? And what is really going to happen in Houston? These are dispossessed people who've been further dispossessed -- do we have a word for that? After a few days, the Superdome is already a slice of hell, with overflowing bathrooms, fights, rape allegations and now, people dying outside. Do we expect the Astrodome -- abandoned by the Houston Astros in 2000 for Enron Field, excuse me, Minute Maid Park -- to fare much better? Sure, Houston's got electricity and running water, but tens of thousands of scared, angry people packed into an abandoned sports stadium -- we couldn't come up with a better symbol of how little we care about the poor, how little we've thought about what to do with them, for them, if we tried. As if to make sure we didn't miss the ironies, the same week as Katrina came news that the poverty rate has climbed again, the fourth straight year under President Bush. But let's be fair: John Kerry barely mentioned the poor last year. And while President Clinton's booming 1990s lifted some boats, and his welfare reform at least muted the ideological sniping about whether poor folks were victims or freeloaders, nobody's bothered lately to pay much attention to whether welfare reform made people's lives better, whether it paved a path out of poverty or just moved its subjects into the vast ranks of the working poor. Then came Katrina, and we're forced to pay attention. We're forced to look at New Orleans, to really see it -- one of the nation's great party cities and also one of its poorest. If you go for Mardi Gras or the annual Jazz Heritage Festival, really if you go any old time, you know its majority black population is mostly hidden from white tourists. Beyond the gorgeous French Quarter and Garden District it's long been a crime-plagued, gang-ridden, corruption-befouled city. But as long as you stuck to Fodor's, you didn't have to care. Now you do. Before Katrina, we were warned of coffins floating out of cemeteries, but instead we got poor black people flushed out of slums, and to some people they're apparently just as scary. But they're not going back any time soon. They're our responsibility now. They always were; we just ignored it. Maybe we can't anymore. On cable news, our normally buttoned-down blow-dried correspondents, almost all of them white, are cracking under the strain of bearing witness to the suffering and even death of the people who weren't looting, who did the right thing and headed to the Superdome, only to find a worse hell awaited them. They've dropped their script and they're asking tough questions. CNN's Chris Lawrence was clearly shaken describing what he saw: "We talked to mothers holding babies, some of these babies 3, 4, 5 months old, living in these horrible conditions ...These people are being forced to live like animals. When you look at some of these mothers your heart just breaks ... People need to see this ... what it's really like here. We saw dead bodies. People are dying at the convention center, and there's no one to come get them." Later, Anderson Cooper was even harsher, challenging Sen. Mary Landrieu for thanking President Bush for his efforts to aid her state. "Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting," he said. "For the last four days I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi ... You know, I gotta tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated. And when they hear politicians thanking one another, it kind of cuts them them wrong way right now. Because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours and there's not enough facilities to take her up. Do you get the anger that is out here?" Of course, it's unfair to blame the president for an act of nature like Katrina. And yet it's irrefutable that this administration's backward policies and politics made this disaster worse than it had to be, and its belated response will do nothing to address the problems that have suddenly been flushed out into the open. The death toll from Katrina is likely to be higher than 9/11, but most of its victims will be black and poor, and I doubt we'll wage a war on poverty and neglect to match the war on terror launched after al-Qaida struck -- and if we did, I doubt it would be any more effective. The president, who continued his vacation while Katrina raged, just the way he kept reading "My Pet Goat" on 9/11, is headed for the Gulf on Friday. I'd like him to bring some answers, but I don't expect him to. What I'd really like is to see him head today for the Superdome, bring his dad, and Bill Clinton, and John Kerry and Howard Dean -- any Democrat or Republican who cares, really ?- and go to work, feeding and comforting the refugees and finding out what they need. Then I'd like to see them put people to work, rebuilding the amazing historic city we've apparently lost. Americans are ready to do the right thing. Americans want to help their neighbors -- even when those neighbors are people they don't know, who are poor and have different colored skin. If you close your eyes, you can imagine a silver lining. Inspired by a president who got down in the water himself and started bailing, America could find the will and the resources to put people to work building a country, not destroying one the way we're doing in Iraq. But that is just a dream. In the real world, the water is likely to keep rising. Still, I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong. - - - - - - - - - - - - - About the writer Joan Walsh is Salon's editor in chief. - -----Original Message----- From: Em To: JR ; jonilist Sent: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content JR! dang man, that was harsh! I wasn't talking about that fuzzy wuzzy stuff like you mentioned. Not at all. But I was heartened to hear of the hellified human efforts some people are making. Some people who have had opportunities to walk away - turn tail, in other words...but they chose to stay in New Orleans and help well beyond the call of duty. Thinking specifically of the nurses and other medical staff at some of the hospitals in N.O. Working around the clock in horribkle conditions to save lives, and trying with a vengeance not to let anyone die. This in conditions where there is no water; and many other necessary things are "missing" too. Or the police officers who remained, despite being terrorized by what are probably admittedly a *few* revolutionary thugs. Yeah right. And hearing one woman cop say that she has to go forward and show compassion to people giving her a very hard time. I have been sort of wadded up into a tight seething knot for several days. Similar to Lori's feelings. But yesterday there was what I'd call a *bit* of good news, the National Guard finally making it in and more and more people finally being bussed out. A good thing! Also hearing some of the refugees describe how well they are being treated in Houston was very good. GOOD to hear a little satisfaction in their voices. So my personal ball was able to unwind just a bit last night. Fixing to read this article, sent to me by a former NO resident, a woman of color, who now works for the REd Cross. http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/09/01/katrina_race/ So, I'm gonna see what this has to say. I like Michael Moore too. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me to take my head out of my ass. You don't know me, you don't know my politics or how I feel about things (except maybe music). Just because I found a positive thing or 2 in the cesspool, doesn't mean my head is up my ass. thanks Em - --- JR wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Lori Fye" ; > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: (NJC) Political content > > > > Concentrate on the good stuff, k? maybe? > > Em > > Oh! I like unicorns, rainbows and little cute puppies! > Jeez, take your head outta yer ass, will ya? > This is SERIOUS SHIT and you wanna talk about sunsets?! > My hero? Michael Moore, because he's not afraid to show everyone (in > Fahrenheit 9/11) what a complete douchebag and moron Bush is. > W's not qualified for dog-catcher, much less the leader of the "free" > world. > There's a nice room in hell that awaits his cabal. > JR in NH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:08:43 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: The Gift of the Magi <> Magi are also the priestly class of the old and still existing religion of Zoroastrianism. In fact, Zoroastrian ideas about last things, salvation, and Satan were adopted by the pre-Christian Jews, and ultimately became the foundation for Christianity. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Alanis's JLP (The New version) I was wondering if folks around like the new Alanis album featuring the song "Your House" with the mentioning of Joni as the singer she was listening to all afternoon at her ex's flat? I find this album to be real cool, plus it features the great lyric in Ironic "It's like meeting the man of my dreams and then meeting his beautiful husband":) Thanks, Nuri Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 68 - Oy Vey! If so many covers of bsn are that lame then there must be something wrong with the song... Nuri Catherine McKay wrote:--- Bob Muller wrote: > OK, so I'm a day late & a dollar short...I mean, > it's not like anyone really READS these things > anyway, right? > Wrong-o! I read 'em faithfully, because they make me laugh and I never cease to be amazed by how many of these suckers there are, especially the lame versions of BSN. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca - --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Shea Subject: re: (NJC) - Political Content - --- mia ortlieb wrote: > Watching the Ted Koppel interview of the > FEMA Director was also > deeply disturbing to me. It was the first time I > had ever seen Koppel on > the verge of losing his cool. It is heartening to finally see the media be real about what's happening, instead of letting the "how could we have knownnnnn?!!" excuse be used again. I'm writing to CNN, MSNBC and papers to urge them to keep it real, don't be bamboozled again!!! Don't wimp out thinking it will get them more viewers/readers/advertisers! And don't anyone watch Fox News!!!! They are the Pravda of this administration. By an overwhelming majority, the people who support the Bushies get ALL their news from Fox. Watch the Fox channel only if you want to learn propaganda techniques. > ... He is succeeded by his deputy, > Michael Brown, who, like > Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster > management. >> > > This sucks!! .... and where were the Democrats > during these appointments?? > ... where was the outcry?? -- COWARDS!! YES!! to that. (My reps and maybe other senators are getting do-not-wimp-out-anymore letters from me too.) And yesterday during Bush's photo op he was praising Brownie for doing such a good job! Incompetent morons, both of them. Remembering the Bushies' claim of making this country safer and how that was such a big selling point in the last election, just makes me sick. I didn't believe them, and don't understand how anyone could, and this disaster (that they had days of warning about) shows just how NOT ready this administration is to respond. Even I knew a category 5 hurricane was going to be a major problem. For the Bushies' and their parrot-supporters to claim no one could have known... has there ever been an administration as irresponsible as this one? > <<2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting > New Orleans as one of the > three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing > this country.">> > > Anybody know what the other two are? That FEMA report was 2001, BEFORE 9/11, and no preparations were made by the Bushies: The three disasasters waiting to happen were a major terrorist attack on NYC (done that been there), a devastating hurricane in the Gulf region (done that too), and a major earthquake in San Franscisco. I hope the local government in San Francisco is ready because this incompetent federal government isn't going to help much. Republicans traditionally believe in "small government." This administration apparently believes in "no government" and, with the huge tax breaks for the corporations and the few extremely wealthy people, have managed to starve the government as quickly as they can. Bush's social security plan (that, thank goodness, few citizens went for) was meant to be the final starvation technique. And since I'm thoroughly angered by what's happening, here's more: how disgusting (but predictable) was it to see Bush being so "comforting" to hurricane victims who'd been checked out previously by Secret Service? They said on interviews that they hadn't been angry with the president before meeting with him. You go, Bushie, act all caring with the few supporters that could be found in that area. This disaster is a good thing for him and some of the expressions on his face show that he knows that. He can put on a "see, I'm President" show, and where are all those annoying anti-war demonstrators now? And can't the guy even get a decent speechwriter? Do we really need to be told by Bush that the American people expect the government to take care of things? My response to that is: no shit sherlock, we ARE the people and we already know that! Seems like it's a surprise only to you. Plus, he can now claim that Katrina caused the rise in gas prices and excuse himself and his greedy adminstration supported by the energy companies from any responsbility from that, even though gas prices were unusually high even before Katrina. Kind of like giving all the tax breaks to corporations and the extemely wealthy as soon as he was in office, and then claiming the deficit is ALL because of the Iraq war, which he claims he had to fight, blah blah blah blah blah. How can anyone with even half a brain still support that guy? > Inquiring minds want to know, > > Mia If you're in or near San Francisco, sorry for the bad FEMA news. Get your go-bag ready, which these days is probably good advice for anyone anywhere. This government makes it clear by their actions that you're on your own. Hurray for that Republican "rights reside in the individual" crap. This administration is leading this country to having about 2,000 extemely wealthy people, with the rest of us servicing them and trying to live off that. It's not going to work. Even some of those wealthy people see that where this country's headed is not only impractical, but immoral. But the Bushies don't have a problem with it. They just keep doing that praying thing, showing their religiosity, doing set-up photo ops, and feeding garbage news to Fox, in order to fool just enough people to keep their evil going. How can anyone support that, and just repeat what the Bushies tell them without bothering to look beyond it? It doesn't take much to see the truth here. The Bushies' actions, not their words, tell it all. I know, I've been away from my joni-siblings for a long time, and now this rant... Along with that I'm really glad to hear Paz and his family were out of harm's way, and am not suprised to read from him that he and his oldest son are going back to help others. My heart and thoughts are with you, Michael, and with everyone struggling to survive this horrific experience. Debra Shea P.S. I LOVE Michael Moore! And I really get a kick out of how conservatives instantly get all screechy at anything he does. I take that defensive fearful reaction to mean he's hit the spot of truth that Bush supporters try to keep hidden from themselves. Go MM go! ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:12:15 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NYTimes.com: Mayor C. Ray Nagin's Interview NJC The New York Times E-mail This This page was sent to you by: kate@katebennett.com Message from sender: a link to the entire interview... listen to the mp3... you'll have to register with the nytimes but it is free NATIONAL / NATIONAL SPECIAL | September 2, 2005 Transcript: Mayor C. Ray Nagin's Interview ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Nothing wrong with BSN Nothing wrong with BSN at all; in fact it may be one of a handful of "perfect" songs in terms of its structure. Three verses, each similar but each one building textually/emotionally to the next. A chorus that also varies and musically complements the sonics of the verse in flawless fashion. BECAUSE of its perfection as a popular song, many many many people did it who had no business doing it (or anything, for that matter). When a lame performer does anything, it'll be lame. If a lame cast did "Jakob the Liar" and their performance stunk, you wouldn't blame the script, would you? Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "No Joy In Mudville" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:28:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Shea Subject: NJC White House phone number If you want to get up close and personal about it, the phone number of the White House is 202-456-1111. My guess is that Bush supporters call the most. It's time that the White House tenant hears from other people. Debra Shea ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: re: (NJC) - Political Content Hi Debra, and welcome back - I've definitely missed you, I was hoping that my comment about the upcoming Richard Thompson concert in Greenville would cast a spell and bring you back, I'm glad it did and I take full credit. How true - I went into a Subway sandwich shop and bad enough that they had a TV in there (I really don't require a TV in EVERY building I walk into) but it was on Fox "News". Before I ordered a sandwich, I told the kid behind the counter that I really needed to change the channel because Fox makes me lose my appetite and that's bad for his business. He had no problem with my switching it to a Braves game. Except when it comes to BIG INTRUSIVE SELF-SERVING government, like the Patriot Act, right? Bob NP: KC & The Sunshine Band, "Shake Your Booty" - --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:11:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC News Flash - Homos to Blame! "Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city" http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html Darn those homos! Bob, in a total state of confusion, because if I pray for the situation, ain't I talking to same deity that caused the mess in the first place? NP: XTC, "Humble Daisy" - --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #338 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)