From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #197 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, May 12 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 197 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) ["mike pritchard" ] Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: PP and now DTY ["Michael O'Malley" ] Re: Westenra BSN cover [Jerry Notaro ] re: Paprika Plains -- the remix (long) ["c Karma" ] Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) [Lori Fye ] Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) - njc [Lori Fye ] Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] easy way for joni to create some new music [w evans ] RE: profound lyric, njc ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: PP and now DTY [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:53:40 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) I distrust statistics, some of which are very frequently partial or insufficiently explained, and other listers have already pointed out some flaws with this data, which Kakki has explained in more detail, so I won't go there. My problem lies in the following statement. >>The children of rocket scientists are probably going to naturally test high. << I agree that these children will probably achieve high scores, but 'naturally'? Based on what 'natural' criteria? High IQ parents? Socioeconomic factors, Genetics? Whenever I see the word 'natural' I reach for my keyboard... mike in barcelona NPIMH - "the central criteria of a critical viewpoint is very simple: any scientific theory or position which looks like a metaphor of the social ideology, or which can be construed as contributing to the psychological, social or material alienation of any class or group in the society is automatically suspect". Arnold Krupat - Ethnocriticism ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 07:03:48 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) "AP or IB courses divided by the number of graduating seniors." I work in a school districtthat graduates somewhere around 30- 35% *only (can't find the exact graduation rate) we can look quite good with this partic. equasion. (Rochester City School District) One of our high schools (Wison High -which is the best one we have) made it up to the top of this list. . . But I personally don't think this particular equasion lends itself to the term "best US high schools." Our graduation rates are very poor. Most drop out. What is the graduation rate at Wilson High exclusively, I don't know for sure. Just my point is, Some statistics are more meaningful than others. Marianne Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) This is interesting. Thanks for pointing it out Kakki. The rankings are based on a single measure: the number of students who take AP or IB courses in a year divided by the number of graduating seniors. So to call these the 'best' high schools is a bit of a stretch. It's a good measure though - reflecting each school's effort in getting all students (not just the high grade earners) access to pre-college courses. And it is heartening, I agree, that there are high schools from economically struggling areas that encourage all their students to take AP courses. But a school could conceivably graduate only half of their senior class (the rest dropping out) and still be very highly ranked. I would have liked to see the graduation rates in the table. Jenny Kakki wrote: listSome of you may have seen this article already. It lists the top 1- 100 and 1- 1,000 public high schools in the U.S. (out of a total of 27,000+ USA public high schools). The Floridians should be happy to see that with all the ribbing and focus they get sometimes, a large portion of the top 100 are in their state. Overall, the states with the best rankings are in California, New York, Texas and Florida (see, we Californians aren't such lala airheads, either! ;-) My old high school is in the top 200. I was also quite happy and surprised to see that many of the high schools in less than properous neighborhoods in L.A. are very highly ranked, oftentimes higher than the schools in the wealthier areas. I found this a very positive and encouraging read. It kind of disproves some of the assumptions about having to spend a zillion dollars sending kids to private schools in order for them to be well educated and to reach their potential. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7761678/site/newsweek/ Kakki _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 04:06:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) Mike wrote: My problem lies in the following statement. > >>The children of rocket scientists are probably going to naturally test high. > > I agree that these children will probably achieve high scores, but > 'naturally'? Based on what 'natural' criteria? High IQ parents? Socioeconomic > factors, Genetics? No need to have a problem with it, Mike. It was just a general statement meant to convey a larger point in less than ten paragraphs. But all those factors you note do, of course, contribute to children of parents with high math and science IQs tending to often pick up some of the family talents. My old boyfriend's father was literally a rocket scientist and 6 of his 7 sons were also all rocket scientists (the one that wasn't was, of course, my boyfriend). The 3 daughters all earned multiple graduate degress, too. I rarely saw any of them study or struggle with school. It did indeed seem to come "naturally" to them. Hanging around them also seemed to naturally raise my IQ, too, as I had gone back to graduate studies during that time and was earning straight As for the first time in my life. Just an anecdotal little story. I think the good news of the article regardless of the methodology or argument over the subjective meaning of the word "best" is that it presents an affirmation of the approach to let the otherwise "pigeonholed" "underachievers" get a second, third or fourth chance to challenge themselves and perhaps discover aptitudes and talents that had not theretofore been recognized by teachers or parents or themselves. Been there, done that, so I had an affinity for the article. > NPIMH - "the central criteria of a critical viewpoint is very simple: any > scientific theory or position which looks like a metaphor of the social > ideology, or which can be construed as contributing to the psychological, > social or material alienation of any class or group in the society is > automatically suspect". Arnold Krupat - Ethnocriticism I guess that is Krupat's opinion but I have a number of problems with his statement ;-) Kakki, naturally Gestault ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 07:51:58 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) > "AP or IB courses divided by the number of graduating seniors." > > I work in a school districtthat graduates somewhere around 30- 35% *only > (can't find the exact graduation rate) we can look quite good with this > partic. equasion. > > (Rochester City School District) > > One of our high schools (Wison High -which is the best one we have) made it > up to the top of this list. . . > > But I personally don't think this particular equasion lends itself to the > term "best US high schools." > Our graduation rates are very poor. Most drop out. What is the graduation > rate at Wilson High exclusively, I don't know for sure. But there are some educators, myself included, who feel it is unfair to judge schools by their drop out rate. There are many factors that contribute to this rate that schools have no control. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:35:36 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Re: PP and now DTY Hey Randy, That was great. I haven't heard the new PP yet, but I agree with you, it is one of Joni's great works, and one of my favourites now. When the album first came out, I didn't at all enjoy the instrumental interlude. Now I find I like it better, although I enjoy it less than I do the sung part of the work. I was wondering if you would take a listen to the orchestral part of DTY, Joni's other great orchestral outing. To my ears, this was not recorded together in one take, rather it sounds to me like pieces of tape patched together in the mixing booth. For example, I've always found there is an abrupt transition at 2:43 and again at 4:19, when the oboe and clarinet come back near the end (on the regular CD pressing). This was especially audible on the vinyl record. The sound quality seems to vary somewhat from one section to the next, even the piano seems duller at the end of the peice. What do you think? Are these variations in the sound made by the patching together of different takes or recordings ? Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft. SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:11:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Westenra BSN cover Very nice. The arrangement is uncluttered, and the violin and guitar are right on. Hayley is very popular here in Florida. It is significant that Joni is so popular with young talent. It ensures her work will survive. Jerry np: Mandy Patinkin - Not a Day Goes By > I stumbled onto this cover of BSN by Kiwi cutie, Hayley Westenra. Probably > old news for many, but for those who haven't seen it, you can watch her > perform this at > > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/westenra/songlist.html# > > Scroll down to BSN. Hey, it aint Joni, but a fairly decent cover it is. > > Michael in Quebec > dreaming of pianos and paprika plains, and picturing Joni and Renie Flemming > getting giddy on champagne... > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN. Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling > get-togethers. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http: > //hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 15:24:28 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Paprika Plains -- the remix (long) A NEW pop before "the band plugs in again?" I didn't hear that (I'll have to listen again), but I hope this isn't a new reaction to Jaco's pre-flaps, which have always been audible. Maybe it's added to give that literal association to plugging in. You know that awful electrical noise when someone connects a live wire? Either way, I can feel and see the atmosphere that was likely Nucleus Nuance at this point in the piece every time. This is time travel at its best. CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:30:19 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) Randy -- if you haven't posted your amazing review of PP to Amazon for the SoaPG page, please do so immediately. And I have to second Jenny's emotion: thanks a lot, now I have to go and buy it! Em, I know you're having trouble getting into PP. For me, it helps a lot that I was living on the prairies of North Dakota when DJRD was released, and because of that experience I so understand what Joni decribes in that song. (Maybe you should ride your bike up to North Dakota in July and attend the reunion I've organized for the Fortuna radar station, http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/fortuna_afs/) It also helps to indulge in a certain herb, imo ... : )~ Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:34:25 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) - njc Jim wrote: > It's cool to have both and ultra-cool to have a venue for "discussing" > it. There are probably only two other people within 100 miles of here > who would have an opinion on the topic. There are? Who? I thought Bree and Marianne live in NY. ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:37:56 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: Best U.S. High Schools (NJC) Jenny, My alma mater is not listed either. :) Seriously though, I can see those statistics classes are serving you well. Almost everyone from my high school went on to "higher education". Jim Jenny said in part, >The rankings are based on a single measure: the number of students who take AP or IB courses in a year divided by the number of graduating seniors. So to call these the 'best' high schools is a bit of a stretch.> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:46:46 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: profound lyric, njc we are idiots, babe it's a wonder we can even feed ourselves. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: easy way for joni to create some new music I'm sure someone's come up with this before... but I'm a bit of a lurker and not always tuned in *waves hi bob* Anyways, Joni has remarked often about how she thinks if she wrote new songs that it would be too bleak and dark because of her current worldview... So, if she wanted to create new music and record, why not just pull out the VG-8, invite wayne, herbie, brian and the Russian over, and just work out some ideas and make an instrumental jazz album, maybe warble some scats over it? The others are all signed to Verve already, they could put it out and they know how to promote this sort of thing, and while it won't go gold (jazz records seldom do) it will at least be profitable because it's cheap to make. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:05:12 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: profound lyric, njc Someone got it in for you? Telling stories in the press? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:47 PM To: JMDL Subject: Re: profound lyric, njc we are idiots, babe it's a wonder we can even feed ourselves. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:01:13 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: PP and now DTY Michael O'Malley wrote: > I was wondering if you would take a listen to the orchestral part of DTY, > The sound quality seems to vary somewhat from one > section to the next, even the piano seems duller at the end of the peice. > What do you think? Are these variations in the sound made by the patching > together of different takes or recordings ? They are doing alot of extreme panning-left and right, as well as lots of tonal treatment to the sound. Plus Tom Scott's parts were no doubt laid down separate from the orchestra. I'd guess the sounds on DTY are intentional. I didn't really notice anything strange at the times you mentioned- I'm listening to the HDCD, so maybe they fixed it? Great song. RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #197 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)