From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #186 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, May 2 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 186 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni on shelf [Garret ] Re: guns: (njc) ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: guns: (njc) ["Brad McMillan" ] joni on guns [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: guns: (njc) [Em ] Re: joni on guns [Brian Gross ] Re: Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm Covers 64! ["Ric Robinson" ] Re: guns: (njc) ["Brad McMillan" ] JMDL Video Tree download: Please Seed [Jeffrey Chard ] Re: guns: (njc) ["Brad McMillan" ] Re: guns: (njc) [ron ] swearing in song lyrics (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Joni interviewed in New York magazine (May 09, 2005) ["J Harney" ] RE: JMDL Video Tree download: Please Seed ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Joni on shelf ["Richard Flynn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 19:02:43 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni on shelf Quoting LCStanley7@aol.com: > > I have been enjoying Refuge of the Roads. I especially love Sweet Bird > > and Woodstock on this DVD. I also like the tour photo gallery that is > included. Think I'll watch it now. Nice way to start the day. Smile! > I could not find teh tour photo gallery on teh DVD. It was listed on the box as one of the "special features" . Perhaps I'm missing something very obvious here, will check again. GARRET NP- Rufus Wainwright, Dinner At 8 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:57:16 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) <> brad, i've tried really hard to understand this position, but i "chaff at the illogic" of it. when's the last time you heard of someone raping someone at powerboat-point? sure, all of the above are dangerous and should be treated with respect - but a handgun sure is easier to conceal and, bottom line, is a WEAPON with no utilitarian function, unlike cars and motorcycles and chainsaws. i'm too lazy to do the research, but even if we just count people who **accidentally** hurt themselves or others (and leaving out motorcycles and cars, because to my mind, those aren't the same sorts of accidents), i feel sure that handguns are significantly more dangerous than chainsaws or falling sofas or what have you. (and please don't take offense at the barrage of email you'll likely see about this topic. you've walked into an old powderkeg argument around these parts. i respect your right to your opinion, but i sure as hell don't share it.) cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:04:57 -0400 From: "Brad McMillan" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) Em; I have to admit, SS was a big part of my retirement plan. I have a meager pension coming from 16 yrs service with the state and SS and whatever I am able to amass after I finish paying everybody off in the time remaining. I think I will probably die in harness. Fortunately, as a criminal defense sole practitioner, no one can tell me when to quit. Even if I have to crawl into a wheelchair every morning, I can work as long as the brain works. It will be interesting to see if/how the govmint can create an arbitrary date cutting off future recipients of SS, if that is indeed their plan. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Brad McMillan" ; ; Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:46 PM Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > Brad, well I wasn't being facetious. > I have a hunch that the bright no more SS future is going to see > bunches of future old people wanting a way out. > Em > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > Em; > > I was being facetious. > > In depessing times, so far, whenever in examining options, checking > > out > > early has crossed my mind, I have always rejected it out of hand. I > > figure > > that no matter how bleak things seem, they can still get better, but > > I > > wouldn't know if I took my own life. Of course, a painful, terminal > > illness > > might change my mind. > > > > I was taught to respect firearms as dangerous tools at an early age. > > Whenever someone edges towards outlawing firearms as a cure for > > violence, I > > chaff at the illogic of that position. Gee, I guess we should do away > > with > > automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power boats, and anything else > > people > > frequently hurt themselves or others with. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Em" > > To: "Brad McMillan" ; ; > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:16 PM > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > Brad I gotta admit I pretty much had the same sort of thought. > > Don't > > > own one yet. Maybe never will. But if I ever do buy one it will > > > probably be as "insurance". Too old too poor too miserable, no > > > hope...eat the gun. Maybe by then they'll make a socially > > acceptable > > > pill for that. > > > Em > > > > > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > > > > > I, for one, am glad that I own firearms after reading that > > article. > > > > I'm > > > > happy to know that if I ever get depressed enough, I can eat a > > gun > > > > instead > > > > of dangling from a rope until I suffocate. That sounds horrible > > to > > > > me. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is from Doctors Against Handgun Injury (DAHI) > > > > > > > > > > Types of Firearm Death and Injury > > > > > > > > > > While most of the public debate about firearms focuses on > > > > homicides, > > > > > the data demonstrate that more than half (58%) of all > > > > firearm-related > > > > > deaths are a result of suicide. 9 This substantial component > > of > > > > the > > > > > gun injury problem is plainly a public health issue and > > clearly > > > > > requires attention, not only because of the size of the > > problem, > > > > but > > > > > also because suicide is highly preventable. > > > > > > > > > > Demographically, young people and the elderly are at particular > > > > risk > > > > > for suicide. More young people aged 15-24 commit suicide with a > > > > firearm > > > > > than by any other means, and 34% of all firearm suicides are > > > > committed > > > > > by individuals aged 55 and older. More than half of all > > suicides > > > > among > > > > > Americans of any age are committed with a firearm. That is an > > > > > extremely high percentage when compared to the second most > > common > > > > > category of suicide b hanging, strangulation and suffocation > > b > > > > which > > > > > accounted for 18.6% of all suicides in 1999. 11 > > > > > > > > > > Suicidal behavior is complex and has multiple causes. No single > > > > change > > > > > in law or medical practice procedures will solve the problem, > > and > > > > > there are certainly ways to commit suicide without a firearm. > > But > > > > > suicide attempts using firearms are particularly deadly: > > evidence > > > > > indicates that 90% of suicide attempts involving firearms will > > > > result > > > > > in death. 12 We can reduce this tragic waste of human life by > > > > > increasing public attention to the strong link between suicide > > and > > > > > firearms, increasing the medical community's focus on early > > > > warning > > > > > signs of depression and other predisposing disorders, and > > adopting > > > > > rational firearm injury prevention policies. > > > > > > > > > > Homicide is also a multi-causal problem. Contrary to popular > > > > > perception, the majority of firearm homicides are not the > > result > > > > of > > > > > bstranger danger crime,b but rather the result of intimate > > > > partner > > > > > violence or an argument between people who know each other. In > > > > 2000, > > > > > the number of females shot and killed by their husband or > > intimate > > > > > acquaintance was nearly 4 times higher than the number > > murdered by > > > > > male strangers using all weapons combined. 13 DAHI recommends > > > > adopting > > > > > policies to reduce the easy availability of firearms to > > prohibited > > > > > persons and engaging the medical community to more readily > > screen > > > > for > > > > > firearm accessibility, signs of violence in the home and unsafe > > gun > > > > > storage. Unintentional deaths and injuries represent perhaps > > the > > > > > most preventable firearm-related incidents. In 2001, 4,160 > > youths > > > > aged > > > > > 0-18 suffered from unintentional, nonfatal gunshot wounds. 14 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 2000, unintentional firearm deaths claimed 67 children > > between > > > > the > > > > > ages of 5 and 14. 15 By counseling parents about the inherent > > > > risks > > > > > associated with firearms, particularly handguns, and by > > deploying > > > > > existing technology aimed at reducing childrenbs access to > > such > > > > > weapons, the number of unintentional firearm injuries and > > deaths > > > > can be > > > > > dramatically reduced. > > > > > > > > > > Progress is Being Made Despite the disturbing data, progress > > can > > > > b and > > > > > has b been made. There has been a decline in overall firearm > > > > deaths and > > > > > injuries in recent years. From 1993 to 1999, firearm-related > > > > deaths > > > > > declined from approximately 40,000 to approximately 28,000, > > > > primarily > > > > > due to a decrease in homicides. 16 A number of factors may > > explain > > > > this > > > > > positive trend: a better economy, changing attitudes toward > > > > violence, > > > > > advanced practices in emergency health care, legislative > > > > initiatives, > > > > > and increased awareness of the potential danger of firearms. > > > > > Although current trends are favorable, this country still faces > > an > > > > > unacceptable level of loss of life associated with firearms, > > > > handguns > > > > > especially. This is a time to build on past success and test > > new > > > > > methods. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Em > > > > > To: joni@smoe.org > > > > > Sent: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:04:23 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > Subject: Re: guns: quoting Joni (njc) > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anne, no guns here..have never owned one...but sometimes > > I > > > > think > > > > > it > > > > > might be best to have one. > > > > > While my neighborhood is not as rough as what you describe, it > > is > > > > > fairly rough - home invasions, for instance are not uncommon. > > And > > > > we do > > > > > hear gunfire from time to time. No clue who's shooting. > > > > > I find it hard to be absolutely pro or con. > > > > > My personal choice thus far is not to own a gun...but I guess > > if > > > > > someone busts into my house...unless he or she is a gentle, > > > > non-violent > > > > > thief, I might regret the no gun decision. > > > > > But I have to wonder, in general, what the stance of people who > > DO > > > === message truncated === ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:01:09 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: joni on guns Sunny Sunday, anyone? LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 12:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: guns: (njc) when it gets to that point, can I come answer the phone for ya? hellooooooooooo???? ;) we could get out our guitars and jam! Em - --- Brad McMillan wrote: > Em; > I have to admit, SS was a big part of my retirement plan. I have a > meager > pension coming from 16 yrs service with the state and SS and whatever > I am > able to amass after I finish paying everybody off in the time > remaining. I > think I will probably die in harness. Fortunately, as a criminal > defense > sole practitioner, no one can tell me when to quit. Even if I have to > crawl > into a wheelchair every morning, I can work as long as the brain > works. > It will be interesting to see if/how the govmint can create an > arbitrary > date cutting off future recipients of SS, if that is indeed their > plan. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Brad McMillan" ; ; > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:46 PM > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > Brad, well I wasn't being facetious. > > I have a hunch that the bright no more SS future is going to see > > bunches of future old people wanting a way out. > > Em > > > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > > > Em; > > > I was being facetious. > > > In depessing times, so far, whenever in examining options, > checking > > > out > > > early has crossed my mind, I have always rejected it out of hand. > I > > > figure > > > that no matter how bleak things seem, they can still get better, > but > > > I > > > wouldn't know if I took my own life. Of course, a painful, > terminal > > > illness > > > might change my mind. > > > > > > I was taught to respect firearms as dangerous tools at an early > age. > > > Whenever someone edges towards outlawing firearms as a cure for > > > violence, I > > > chaff at the illogic of that position. Gee, I guess we should do > away > > > with > > > automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power boats, and anything > else > > > people > > > frequently hurt themselves or others with. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Em" > > > To: "Brad McMillan" ; > ; > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:16 PM > > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > > > > Brad I gotta admit I pretty much had the same sort of thought. > > > Don't > > > > own one yet. Maybe never will. But if I ever do buy one it will > > > > probably be as "insurance". Too old too poor too miserable, no > > > > hope...eat the gun. Maybe by then they'll make a socially > > > acceptable > > > > pill for that. > > > > Em > > > > > > > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > > > > > > > I, for one, am glad that I own firearms after reading that > > > article. > > > > > I'm > > > > > happy to know that if I ever get depressed enough, I can eat > a > > > gun > > > > > instead > > > > > of dangling from a rope until I suffocate. That sounds > horrible > > > to > > > > > me. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:30 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is from Doctors Against Handgun Injury (DAHI) > > > > > > > > > > > > Types of Firearm Death and Injury > > > > > > > > > > > > While most of the public debate about firearms focuses on > > > > > homicides, > > > > > > the data demonstrate that more than half (58%) of all > > > > > firearm-related > > > > > > deaths are a result of suicide. 9 This substantial > component > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > gun injury problem is plainly a public health issue and > > > clearly > > > > > > requires attention, not only because of the size of the > > > problem, > > > > > but > > > > > > also because suicide is highly preventable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Demographically, young people and the elderly are at > particular > > > > > risk > > > > > > for suicide. More young people aged 15-24 commit suicide > with a > > > > > firearm > > > > > > than by any other means, and 34% of all firearm suicides > are > > > > > committed > > > > > > by individuals aged 55 and older. More than half of all > > > suicides > > > > > among > > > > > > Americans of any age are committed with a firearm. That is > an > > > > > > extremely high percentage when compared to the second most > > > common > > > > > > category of suicide b hanging, strangulation and > suffocation > > > b > > > > > which > > > > > > accounted for 18.6% of all suicides in 1999. 11 > > > > > > > > > > > > Suicidal behavior is complex and has multiple causes. No > single > > > > > change > > > > > > in law or medical practice procedures will solve the > problem, > > > and > > > > > > there are certainly ways to commit suicide without a > firearm. > > > But > > > > > > suicide attempts using firearms are particularly deadly: > > > evidence > > > > > > indicates that 90% of suicide attempts involving firearms > will > > > > > result > > > > > > in death. 12 We can reduce this tragic waste of human > life by > > > > > > increasing public attention to the strong link between > suicide > > > and > > > > > > firearms, increasing the medical community's focus on > early > > > > > warning > > > > > > signs of depression and other predisposing disorders, and > > > adopting > > > > > > rational firearm injury prevention policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Homicide is also a multi-causal problem. Contrary to > popular > > > > > > perception, the majority of firearm homicides are not the > > > result > > > > > of > > > > > > bstranger danger crime,b but rather the result of > intimate > > > > > partner > > > > > > violence or an argument between people who know each > other. In > > > > > 2000, > > > > > > the number of females shot and killed by their husband or > > > intimate > > > > > > acquaintance was nearly 4 times higher than the number > > > murdered by > > > > > > male strangers using all weapons combined. 13 DAHI > recommends > > > > > adopting > > > > > > policies to reduce the easy availability of firearms to > > > prohibited > > > > > > persons and engaging the medical community to more readily > > > screen > > > > > for > > > > > > firearm accessibility, signs of violence in the home and > unsafe > > > gun > > > > > > storage. Unintentional deaths and injuries represent > perhaps > > > the > > > > > > most preventable firearm-related incidents. In 2001, 4,160 > > > youths > > > > > aged > > > > > > 0-18 suffered from unintentional, nonfatal gunshot wounds. > 14 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 2000, unintentional firearm deaths claimed 67 children > === message truncated === ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 12:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: joni on guns - --- Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > Sunny Sunday, anyone? LAHM Thank you David. And once again, I will open my invitation to any jmdler who is interested in safely learning to handle and accurately use pistols or rifles to join me as my guest at the indoor range in West Deptford NJ (between exits 21 and 22 off I-295). They are open every day except Monday. It's a lot of fun, stress relieving, and a whole lot safer than trying to escape from the killer sofa ;-) Brian, proud to be a law-abiding life member of the JMDL and NRA. Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:51:43 +0100 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Re: Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm Covers 64! Hi Bob, Looks like a winner! BTW, being a relative newbie, I don't know how one goes about getting hold of these gems. Care to enlighten me? Also, if at anytime you feel like sending me a random MP3 that'd be cool too. :-))))))) Ric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" To: "JMDL" Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 2:56 PM Subject: Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm Covers 64! > Howdy gang - well, it's a beautiful first of May and here I sit with > another most excellent compilation of Joni covers for y'all...before I > begin, lemme give a shout out to the folks who helped bring this one to > ya: > > Garret > Anita Gabrielle > > Covers #64 runs 77 minutes long and contains 20 bonafide hits, some > rarities, some boquets and some brickbats...here we go: > > 1. The Cantrells - You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio: Direct from Nashville, > with banjo, dobro, and all the rest of the country trimmings - appropriate > for this track which seems to get the C&W treatment quite often. Cool by > me - gives the country fans something GOOD to listen to. > 2. Susan Tedeschi - River: Bostonian singer/songwriter, Susan is > categorized as a blues singer although she covers all genres, and quite > well too I might add. This very fine version of River comes from one of > her electric live shows. > 3. Nyle Frank - Both Sides Now: We've heard from Nyle before, his Morning > Morgantown & Circle Game have graced previous volumes - this one's from > his latest release and is another lovely solo piano recording, very well > paced. > 4. Denise Jordan Finley - Michael From Mountains: From an independent > release, Denise has a pretty pretty soprano and easily winds her way > through Joni's lovely melody with piano and cello behind her which builds > and adds on additional instrumention through this original arrangement. > 5. The Pomaswank - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: Nice loose lounge jazz version, > strong players and expressive singing. Hey, hear it for yourself: > http://www.ethanhein.com/bands.html#pomaswank > 6. Rich And Nona - The Circle Game: Interesting because they start with > the BSN riff and then launch into TCG as a duet with a chorus of voices > behind them which is pretty effective. Not a bad version, but I don't > think it ever made them rich, except of course for Rich who already was. > 7. Senior Girls Chorus of Camp Blue Star - Both Sides Now: More > campers...Camp Blue Star is actually only about an hour north of me in > Hendersonville, NC...this group of young girls singing acapella has some > nice voices in there but they're cursed by the one or two "Barney Fifes" > in there who sing loud, proud, and awful. > 8. Sharon Eusebe - River: Not too bad, this singer has been compared to > Nina Simone and sings River in a lower alto range. > 9. Anita Gabrielle - Woodstock: Anita's certainly done us proud! Our > fellow JMDL'er, playing one of Joni's own guitars, turns in an > electrifying take on the landmark song...this is a truly inspired and > original version, with a revised verse added by Anita and also including a > bit of Moby's "We Are All Made Of Stars". Bravo Anita...a beautiful > recording from a beautiful spirit. > 10. Rose Mary Rees - Chelsea Morning: Clear the dance floor! This is from > a 12" dance record from the UK, this is one take, she does another version > which we'll hear later on. She basically sings the melody over the > synthesized rhythm machinery. > 11. Mt. Hood Community College Vocal Jazz Ensemble - Both Sides Now: > Another acapella version, these kids are a bit older (and a lot better) > than the Blue Star campers...this is basically the Singers Unlimited > arrangement which is to say that it's pretty cool and swings. > 12. Pearls Before Swine - For Free: Tom Rapp's band Pearls Before Swine > happened on the scene between 1965-71 and just recently released a > rarities boxset, including this Joni cover which was an unreleased demo. > Interesting trivia: Tom also wrote a song called "Wizard of Is", I almost > flipped when I saw that on the tracklisting thinking it was another Joni > cover! > 13. Anne-Marie O'Farrell - Song To A Seagull: Really pretty Celtic harp, > and used appropriately here to convey the soaring seagull, expressive and > visual. I wish Anne-Marie's vocal matched her harp playing; not bad I > suppose but not up to speed with her awesome harp. > 14. Real Time - Carey: This UK quartet released this great and spirited > version of Carey about a year ago. Great vocals, harmonies, and > instrumentation too. > 15. Tull Glazener & Jim Sperry - Both Sides Now: An instrumental > dulcimer/guitar duet, these guys say that BSN was composed on dulcimer > which is news to me (when did Joni take up the dulcimer?). Anyway, in > spite of this information they turn in a very nice acoustic take on the > franchise. > 16. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - Michael From Mountains > 17. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - Marcie > 18. Volker Niehusmann & Christiane Weber - Cactus Tree: Here's a beautiful > trio by a duo...from Germany, these two recorded a Joni tribute CD called > "Another Blue", and it is really lovely. Volker plays guitar, Chritiane > supplies the voce. Wow, really nice. More to come from this talented > twosome, we'll start with 3 from STAS. > 19. Oak Park/River Forest Junior High School Chorus - Both Sides Now: > Well, let's see...we've had Seniors, College kids, it's only fair we throw > a Junior High School Chorus in the mix as well...sorry Jerry, I couldn't > find the recording by the old-timers at Shady Pines. But back to this > recording from early seventies Chicago area. All in all, not too shabby - > the Choral director knew enough to tell the Barney Fifes in the group to > just move their mouths, but even then the harmony parts sort of run amuck > toward the end - one can just see the poor director waving his/her baton > excitedly trying to slow them down. > 20. Robert Bobby - River: A nasally countrified version, Robert can't > *quite* navigate the melodic stretch that this song requires, but gives it > the ol' college try just the same which is fine by me - hey, they can't > ALL sing like Dianne Reeves... > > And that brings us to the end of another in the never-ending series of our > Joni Covers...thanks again to the folks who helped me gather the goodies, > thanks to those of you out there whose interest keeps me searching, and > thanks to those of you who read all the way to here. > > And stay tuned - I was glad to see the response I got last month for my > #63 giveaway so I'll do it again with #64...after all, when you have > something good, you don't want to keep it to yourself...hide it under a > bushel...NO...I'm gonna let it shine! > > Bob > > NP: Led Zeppelin, "Communication Breakdown" > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:49:41 -0400 From: "Brad McMillan" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) That's okay, Cindy. I am used to being on the receiving end of these arguments. I come from a family of soldiers and law enforcement people. The idea of outlawing guns seems crazy. It means that only the bad guys would still have guns! Law abiding individuals who walk into a sporting goods store and fill out the federal background check form and buy a handgun legally usually do so for target practice or home defense. The guy who uses it to commit rape or armed robbery bought his in the underground black market. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Vickery" To: "Brad McMillan" Cc: "Em" ; ; Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > < violence, I chaff at the illogic of that position. Gee, I guess > we should do away with automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power > boats, and anything else people frequently hurt themselves or > others with.>> > > brad, i've tried really hard to understand this position, but i > "chaff at the illogic" of it. when's the last time you heard of > someone raping someone at powerboat-point? sure, all of the > above are dangerous and should be treated with respect - but a > handgun sure is easier to conceal and, bottom line, is a WEAPON > with no utilitarian function, unlike cars and motorcycles and > chainsaws. > i'm too lazy to do the research, but even if we just count people > who **accidentally** hurt themselves or others (and leaving out > motorcycles and cars, because to my mind, those aren't the same > sorts of accidents), i feel sure that handguns are significantly > more dangerous than chainsaws or falling sofas or what have you. > (and please don't take offense at the barrage of email you'll > likely see about this topic. you've walked into an old powderkeg > argument around these parts. i respect your right to your > opinion, but i sure as hell don't share it.) > > cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:52:14 -0400 From: "Brad McMillan" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) Cool. A law office full of guitars and folkies. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Brad McMillan" ; "jonilist" Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > when it gets to that point, can I come answer the phone for ya? > hellooooooooooo???? > ;) > we could get out our guitars and jam! > Em > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > Em; > > I have to admit, SS was a big part of my retirement plan. I have a > > meager > > pension coming from 16 yrs service with the state and SS and whatever > > I am > > able to amass after I finish paying everybody off in the time > > remaining. I > > think I will probably die in harness. Fortunately, as a criminal > > defense > > sole practitioner, no one can tell me when to quit. Even if I have to > > crawl > > into a wheelchair every morning, I can work as long as the brain > > works. > > It will be interesting to see if/how the govmint can create an > > arbitrary > > date cutting off future recipients of SS, if that is indeed their > > plan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Em" > > To: "Brad McMillan" ; ; > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:46 PM > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > Brad, well I wasn't being facetious. > > > I have a hunch that the bright no more SS future is going to see > > > bunches of future old people wanting a way out. > > > Em > > > > > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > > > > > Em; > > > > I was being facetious. > > > > In depessing times, so far, whenever in examining options, > > checking > > > > out > > > > early has crossed my mind, I have always rejected it out of hand. > > I > > > > figure > > > > that no matter how bleak things seem, they can still get better, > > but > > > > I > > > > wouldn't know if I took my own life. Of course, a painful, > > terminal > > > > illness > > > > might change my mind. > > > > > > > > I was taught to respect firearms as dangerous tools at an early > > age. > > > > Whenever someone edges towards outlawing firearms as a cure for > > > > violence, I > > > > chaff at the illogic of that position. Gee, I guess we should do > > away > > > > with > > > > automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power boats, and anything > > else > > > > people > > > > frequently hurt themselves or others with. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Em" > > > > To: "Brad McMillan" ; > > ; > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:16 PM > > > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brad I gotta admit I pretty much had the same sort of thought. > > > > Don't > > > > > own one yet. Maybe never will. But if I ever do buy one it will > > > > > probably be as "insurance". Too old too poor too miserable, no > > > > > hope...eat the gun. Maybe by then they'll make a socially > > > > acceptable > > > > > pill for that. > > > > > Em > > > > > > > > > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I, for one, am glad that I own firearms after reading that > > > > article. > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > happy to know that if I ever get depressed enough, I can eat > > a > > > > gun > > > > > > instead > > > > > > of dangling from a rope until I suffocate. That sounds > > horrible > > > > to > > > > > > me. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:30 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is from Doctors Against Handgun Injury (DAHI) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Types of Firearm Death and Injury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While most of the public debate about firearms focuses on > > > > > > homicides, > > > > > > > the data demonstrate that more than half (58%) of all > > > > > > firearm-related > > > > > > > deaths are a result of suicide. 9 This substantial > > component > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > gun injury problem is plainly a public health issue and > > > > clearly > > > > > > > requires attention, not only because of the size of the > > > > problem, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > also because suicide is highly preventable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Demographically, young people and the elderly are at > > particular > > > > > > risk > > > > > > > for suicide. More young people aged 15-24 commit suicide > > with a > > > > > > firearm > > > > > > > than by any other means, and 34% of all firearm suicides > > are > > > > > > committed > > > > > > > by individuals aged 55 and older. More than half of all > > > > suicides > > > > > > among > > > > > > > Americans of any age are committed with a firearm. That is > > an > > > > > > > extremely high percentage when compared to the second most > > > > common > > > > > > > category of suicide b hanging, strangulation and > > suffocation > > > > b > > > > > > which > > > > > > > accounted for 18.6% of all suicides in 1999. 11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suicidal behavior is complex and has multiple causes. No > > single > > > > > > change > > > > > > > in law or medical practice procedures will solve the > > problem, > > > > and > > > > > > > there are certainly ways to commit suicide without a > > firearm. > > > > But > > > > > > > suicide attempts using firearms are particularly deadly: > > > > evidence > > > > > > > indicates that 90% of suicide attempts involving firearms > > will > > > > > > result > > > > > > > in death. 12 We can reduce this tragic waste of human > > life by > > > > > > > increasing public attention to the strong link between > > suicide > > > > and > > > > > > > firearms, increasing the medical community's focus on > > early > > > > > > warning > > > > > > > signs of depression and other predisposing disorders, and > > > > adopting > > > > > > > rational firearm injury prevention policies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Homicide is also a multi-causal problem. Contrary to > > popular > > > > > > > perception, the majority of firearm homicides are not the > > > > result > > > > > > of > > > > > > > bstranger danger crime,b but rather the result of > > intimate > > > > > > partner > > > > > > > violence or an argument between people who know each > > other. In > > > > > > 2000, > > > > > > > the number of females shot and killed by their husband or > > > > intimate > > > > > > > acquaintance was nearly 4 times higher than the number > > > > murdered by > > > > > > > male strangers using all weapons combined. 13 DAHI > > recommends > > > > > > adopting > > > > > > > policies to reduce the easy availability of firearms to > > > > prohibited > > > > > > > persons and engaging the medical community to more readily > > > > screen > > > > > > for > > > > > > > firearm accessibility, signs of violence in the home and > > unsafe > > > > gun > > > > > > > storage. Unintentional deaths and injuries represent > > perhaps > > > > the > > > > > > > most preventable firearm-related incidents. In 2001, 4,160 > > > > youths > > > > > > aged > > > > > > > 0-18 suffered from unintentional, nonfatal gunshot wounds. > > 14 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 2000, unintentional firearm deaths claimed 67 children > > > === message truncated === ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:29:40 -0400 From: Jeffrey Chard Subject: JMDL Video Tree download: Please Seed I've been downloading the torrent for the past week, and I'm up to 86%, but it seems all the seeders have gone away. If someone could open their torrent again so I can get the remaining 400MB , I'd appreciate it greatly. Thanks much, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:31:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: guns: (njc) we could sing: "Wiliam Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carrol! with a cane that he twirled round his diamon' ring finger...in a Baltimore hotel, etc etc etc". lol Em - --- Brad McMillan wrote: > Cool. A law office full of guitars and folkies. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Brad McMillan" ; "jonilist" > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:11 PM > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > when it gets to that point, can I come answer the phone for ya? > > hellooooooooooo???? > > ;) > > we could get out our guitars and jam! > > Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:42:25 -0400 From: "Brad McMillan" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) oh Yeah! and Hang down your head Tom Dooley, and Lily of the West. I'm sure my clients would appreciate the irony, (;-) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Brad McMillan" ; "jonilist" Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > we could sing: "Wiliam Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carrol! with a cane > that he twirled round his diamon' ring finger...in a Baltimore hotel, > etc etc etc". lol > Em > > --- Brad McMillan wrote: > > > Cool. A law office full of guitars and folkies. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Em" > > To: "Brad McMillan" ; "jonilist" > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:11 PM > > Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > > > > > > > when it gets to that point, can I come answer the phone for ya? > > > hellooooooooooo???? > > > ;) > > > we could get out our guitars and jam! > > > Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 22:45:40 +0200 From: ron Subject: Re: guns: (njc) hi >>>>brad wrote >>>>>The guy who uses it to commit rape orarmed robbery bought his in the underground black market. usually after it was stolen from one of the "good" guys. :-) sorry - i loved shooting - tho i havent done it for many years, it was a big part of my schooling days. but now i just think that the potential for intentional, or accidental misuse outweighs the benefits. lets see - accidents i have been close to: 1) accidentally discharge of a 7.62 mm assault rifle: its kind of a major wake up call when you see the bullet hole a few inches away from your friend. 2) friends brother gets the safety drill confused to cock, remove magazine, pull trigger. fortunately he missed his friends & only put a hole in the wall 3) friend attempting to clear a jam on a .22 rimfire. pulls trigger, discharges bullet, with chamber open, & sprays face with shrapnel from the casing 4) corporal sending us running up the bank at a shooting range, after the targets were put up. when i realised what the puff of dust in front of me was, i moved faster than i ever would have believed possible there was a widely reported case here recently. one of our famous ex rugby players woke up to see his car reversing out of the driveway. he took a shot at the car thief, and the car coasted to a stop. when he went to take a look, there was the thief dead behind the wheel. it was his daughter - sneaking off for a night on the town with her friends........................................... "accidents" happen. & when the "accident" involves a gun - the potential for harm is just too high to justify their availability. >>>Gee, I guess we should do away with automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power boats, and anything else people frequently hurt themselves or others with.>> car / motorcycle crashes are just as bad, probably worse, in that they so often are caused by criminal neglect & stupidity, and seem to involve so many innocent people. i would guess that i, and probably most people, have lost more friends & acquantances to road deaths (they are NOT "accidents") than any other cause. im not sure what can be done about that tho - maybe take a cue from race cars around the world & make everone fit roll cages, & wear helmets & proper safety harnesses??? or force carmakers to limit their vehicles to the national speed limit, with horrendous penalties (confiscation of vehicle) for people who derestrict them? or fit satellite tracking devices which will restrict the vehicle to the speed limit in that specific area, or would even pick up other transgressions (failing to stop at a red light or stop sign) & notify the authorities. car hire companies are already using such systems. i cringe at such totalitarian ideas, but i also cringe at the thought of getting smeared all over the countryside by some &*^&^&%. ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 15:36:01 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: swearing in song lyrics (njc) Lama asked: What about the JMDL women? Anne, Kate, Anita, have you ever used the F word in a song? Oh sure. Lots of times! Wait... you mean INTENTIONALLY and not just when recording and a) a string breaks b) I sing off key c) I forget the words Hmm... no can't say I have. lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 21:08:37 +0000 From: "J Harney" Subject: Joni interviewed in New York magazine (May 09, 2005) Just wanted to alert JMDLers that New York magazine has an interview with Joni in this week's issue. The article is accompanied by the William Claxton photo of Joni from a few years ago (the one that ran in that dreadful-- to my mind--article about her in W magazine, also a few years back). It crossed my desk and haven't yet had an opportunity to spend time with the article, but one thing of interest I did glean: Joni is working with someone who is helping her "write" her memoirs, using a tape recorder and working in what she calls "the oral tradition." Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:10:53 -0400 From: "Brad McMillan" Subject: Re: guns: (njc) Life has always been dangerous. Always will be. The idea that we can hand over to the government enough personal freedom to ensure a "safe" environment for humans is ludicrous and downright scary. (Anybody out there read Orwell?) Before there were automobiles, people frequently were kicked in the head by horses, fell off runaway horses, got trampled by horses, or fell out of wagons pulled by horses. (It seems they didn't have a "kill switch" lanyard on the horse). I don't want the government to tell me I have to have a slow, rubber coated car because there are a lot of stupid people out there. I don't want them to tell me I can't own a firearm because 6 times a year, some yahoos cant remember the sequence: release the magazine; cycle the round out of the chamber; dry fire on an empty chamber. (Of course if you had a semi-auto with a hammer instead of a Glock, you could just decock it.) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron" To: "Brad McMillan" Cc: "Cynthia Vickery" ; "Em" ; ; Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:45 PM Subject: Re: guns: (njc) > hi > > > >>>>brad wrote > >>>>>The guy who uses it to commit rape orarmed robbery > bought his in the underground black market. > > usually after it was stolen from one of the "good" guys. :-) > > sorry - i loved shooting - tho i havent done it for many years, it was a > big part of my schooling days. but now i just think that the potential > for intentional, or accidental misuse outweighs the benefits. > > lets see - accidents i have been close to: > 1) accidentally discharge of a 7.62 mm assault rifle: its kind of a > major wake up call when you see the bullet hole a few inches away from > your friend. > 2) friends brother gets the safety drill confused to cock, remove > magazine, pull trigger. fortunately he missed his friends & only put a > hole in the wall > 3) friend attempting to clear a jam on a .22 rimfire. pulls trigger, > discharges bullet, with chamber open, & sprays face with shrapnel from > the casing > 4) corporal sending us running up the bank at a shooting range, after > the targets were put up. when i realised what the puff of dust in front > of me was, i moved faster than i ever would have believed possible > > there was a widely reported case here recently. one of our famous ex > rugby players woke up to see his car reversing out of the driveway. he > took a shot at the car thief, and the car coasted to a stop. when he > went to take a look, there was the thief dead behind the wheel. it was > his daughter - sneaking off for a night on the town with her > friends........................................... > > "accidents" happen. & when the "accident" involves a gun - the potential > for harm is just too high to justify their availability. > > > >>>Gee, I guess we should do away with automobiles, chainsaws, motorcycles, power boats, and anything else people frequently hurt themselves or others with.>> > > > car / motorcycle crashes are just as bad, probably worse, in that they > so often are caused by criminal neglect & stupidity, and seem to involve > so many innocent people. i would guess that i, and probably most people, > have lost more friends & acquantances to road deaths (they are NOT > "accidents") than any other cause. im not sure what can be done about > that tho - maybe take a cue from race cars around the world & make > everone fit roll cages, & wear helmets & proper safety harnesses??? > > or force carmakers to limit their vehicles to the national speed limit, > with horrendous penalties (confiscation of vehicle) for people who > derestrict them? or fit satellite tracking devices which will restrict > the vehicle to the speed limit in that specific area, or would even pick > up other transgressions (failing to stop at a red light or stop sign) & > notify the authorities. car hire companies are already using such > systems. i cringe at such totalitarian ideas, but i also cringe at the > thought of getting smeared all over the countryside by some &*^&^&%. > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:15:54 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: JMDL Video Tree download: Please Seed I'm back on it, so you can finish. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Chard Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 3:30 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Video Tree download: Please Seed I've been downloading the torrent for the past week, and I'm up to 86%, but it seems all the seeders have gone away. If someone could open their torrent again so I can get the remaining 400MB , I'd appreciate it greatly. Thanks much, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:41:11 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Joni on shelf I wasin HMV, Virgin and Borders today, looking for SoapGirl, thinking that someone SOMEWHERE must have it on early import (it's not out here til May 9th. I CAN'T WAIT A WEEK!?!?!) but to no avail. I was impressed by the amount of Joni they did have on the shelves though. I found an HDCD version of MOA with the cover re-done (i.e. instead of the painted-by-Joni title, it was printed in a very similar font. I guess this was for the American release of the HDCD versions. Yes, the tour photos for the RotG dvd. It's on the special features thing. The tour photos are quite special. They remind me of when I was touring Holland with 'A Clockwork Orange' being in cold dressing rooms, having a laugh with the cast. You'll notice the photo which was the inspiration of the Dreamland cover on it as well. Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --- Garret wrote: > > I could not find teh tour photo gallery on teh DVD. > It was listed on the box as > one of the "special features" . Perhaps I'm missing > something very obvious > here, will check again. > GARRET > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:14:52 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni on shelf I got my SoaPGirl and dutifully listened to her. What do you all think of the TLog version of "Cherokee Louise"? I think it's insipid and melodramatic, in case you wondered. The jauntier NRH version is way more powerful--Joni understood irony then. The sound of the disc (SoaPGirlis very nice and the new Paprika Plains a good listening experience-- I guess overall I don't feel quite so ripped off as I did by the previous compilations. I haven't yet been able to bring myself to listen to the Geffen box I got for 24.99 plus tax, title and dealer prep on Ebay--somehow I always find something I'd rather listen to. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Zubairi Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 5:41 PM To: Garret; LCStanley7@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni on shelf I wasin HMV, Virgin and Borders today, looking for SoapGirl, thinking that someone SOMEWHERE must have it on early import (it's not out here til May 9th. I CAN'T WAIT A WEEK!?!?!) but to no avail. I was impressed by the amount of Joni they did have on the shelves though. I found an HDCD version of MOA with the cover re-done (i.e. instead of the painted-by-Joni title, it was printed in a very similar font. I guess this was for the American release of the HDCD versions. Yes, the tour photos for the RotG dvd. It's on the special features thing. The tour photos are quite special. They remind me of when I was touring Holland with 'A Clockwork Orange' being in cold dressing rooms, having a laugh with the cast. You'll notice the photo which was the inspiration of the Dreamland cover on it as well. Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --- Garret wrote: > > I could not find teh tour photo gallery on teh DVD. > It was listed on the box as > one of the "special features" . Perhaps I'm missing > something very obvious > here, will check again. > GARRET > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #186 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)