From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #162 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, April 16 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 162 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #109 [ROBMSTEEN@aol.com] Compilations; Joni in the classroom (was Re: beginnings and endings) [djp] RE: Joni, Rickie and the whole damned thing ["Ross, Les" ] Re: Porous with joni fever NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio [Bob Muller ] Re: Johnnie Johnson, njc [Em ] Re: Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio [Smurf ] FW: April 11 New York Times ["Tortorici, Frank" ] Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever ["David Henderson" ] Re: Porous with joni fever NJC ["Patti Parlette" ] The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel [littlebreen@comcast.net] Joni's Lyrics in another language [Joseph Palis ] I'll tell her it's my birthday, and... [littlebreen@comcast.net] Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. [bryan8847@aol.com] Re: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni's Lyrics in another language [Bob Muller ] Re: Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. [Bob Muller ] Re: guitar ?? NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: guitar ?? NJC [Lori Fye ] Joni at BMG record club ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] old joni articles, and jaco ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] guitar ?? NJC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: guitar ?? NJC [Em ] RE: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Words and Music Tour NJC [vince ] Was: Bottom, Now: Happiness [littlebreen@comcast.net] Walter Becker loves Joan ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] You Turn Me On, I'm an iPod [jrmco1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:22:35 EDT From: ROBMSTEEN@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #109 Joni, Rickie and the whole damned thing An intriguing debate about Joni's later work - and, not for the first time, I'm in Mark E's corner. It does take time for the best records to mature, and instant opinions to flower into objective appraisals. "Hissing...", lest we forget, was greeted with much derision by "Blue" fans complaining of betrayal (the girlfriend who introduced me to Joni's early work in 1975, to take but one example), and Paprika Plains, recently canonised in these very columns, was hardly acclaimed as a good thing for mankind. I'm no ardent fan of her later work, at least by comparison with her best - Court and Spark through Don Juan - but I do appreciate the daring, the ideas and the refusal to stand still. Beat of Black Wings, Love, Sex Kills, Chinese Cafe, Man in the Moon, some of the reinventions on Travelogue - these are a few of my favourite things. Unlike Van Morrison, another 60s survivor who refuses to rest on past laurels, repetition and cynicism and indolence are not the names of her games. Only Todd Rundgren and Tom Waits, among those of a similar vintage, have been so creative and reinventive for so long. The amount of water trodden and retrodden by the likes of Dylan, Jagger/Richards, Townshend, Young et al would fill the Pacific. As for the divine Ms RLJ, that veritable fusion of Waits and JM, while it is indeed true that her sonic adventures have occasionally been more daring, I must confess that Ghostyhead, her most radical departure, left me cold, lacking warmth and melody. Her latest, Evening of My Best Day, was magnificent in parts, her best since The Magazine nearly two decades ago - and this had not a little to do with a return to musical roots and simplicity. Daring is all very well, but sometimes refinement is preferable. And nobody, of course, is more refined than dear Joni. Rob from Cornwall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:21:20 -0500 From: djp Subject: Compilations; Joni in the classroom (was Re: beginnings and endings) Here's my personal Joni compilation: Sweet Bird People's Parties/Same Situation Coyote Amelia Edith and the Kingpin Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Off Night Back Street Chair in the Sky Drycleaner for Des Moines Nothing Can Be Done For the Roses A Case of You The Last Time I Saw Richard Sire of Sorrow Both Sides Now (orchestral) I give this CD as a door prize in one of my undergraduate classes. The course is on privacy. One of the topics is the construction of the private/public divide, and "coming out" as an intervention into that construction, since coming out makes sex and sexuality ("private" issues, right?) public issues. Anyway, in class I come out as a Joni Mitchell fan. Why do I foist my private tastes on my innocent students? Why shove my sick little predeliction down their throats? (I mean, they don't really see anything wrong with me knowing all the lyrics to the Mingus album, but could I just keep it to myself, please?) First, I do it to come to grips with the shame of fandom. (Yes, I actually do pay way too much money for second-rate compilations and special editions; yes, I've driven from Austin to Saskatoon simply to touch the hem of Her garment. Yes, I become breathless in her presence. All of this is a little over-the-top for a staid academic. I mean, we *study* Trekkies, we don't wear Spock-ears. But goddam it I LOVE Joni and that's just who I am, and we're all going to have to get over it. And telling them about it helps, in its little way.) Second, by screaming my love from the rooftops, I always find one or two others in the room whose mothers sang them to sleep with Blue, or who depended on Court and Spark to get them over their father's death. And we swap stories, and form mailing lists, and web sites, and we get this kind of community thing going, and we're no longer alone, and we really have fun talking about the way there's this little vocal catch before "there's a drummer, and a dreamer" on Miles of Aisles (and she was going out with her drummer at the time. Girllll!) I get dates! And finally, goddamn it, I come out to change the public perception (and the public treatment) of Mitchell, to grant her and her music and her fans the rights and stature that they deserve, and to recruit those poor innocent undergraduates into the pleasures of surrender to the Goddess. It usually works pretty well, pedagogically speaking. djp, too tired. At 12:24 PM 4/14/2005, Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: >That's easy-- just checked my iPod and here's my playlist called 'Joni Faves' >- if I was stranded on a desert island, this would help me survive quite >happily... > >Peoples Parties >Two Grey Rooms >Impossible Dreamer >For the Roses >The Priest >Amelia >Marcie >Cactus Tree (MOA version) >Trouble Child >Turbulent Indigo >Man from Mars >For Free >Cool Water (just dicovered this, love it!) >Borderline > >Happy compiling! >Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:59:23 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: Joni, Rickie and the whole damned thing Coming in to this exchange late but taking the position that Joni's work from WTRF to CMIARS are the relative 'flat spots' in her body of work; Alpine to the Hamalyas of C&S, HOSL, H and DJRD. But within the body of her later work (BSN and T excepted) I have felt the same specialness in some of the songs that I was conscious of and responded to in her 70s output. And it's that specialness, whatever the critics might have had to say about it or however the 'chattering classes' railed against HOSL etc, that have informed the durability of these works and their appreciation over the longer term. It has, after all, been a devil of a long time since WTRF first seaped out from the speakers of my hi-fi and although Chinese Cafi and Love are lovely and brilliant respectively, the remainder of the body of work disappointed and the songs continue to be also-rans in my appreciation of Joni's music. The same goes for DED and CMIARS though with each of those compilations the bar gets higher. It's already been said but for me DED is simply a production disaster IMO. The further Joni gets from basic acoustic instrumentation and sounds the more that becomes consumed by the noise going on around the songs. I cite the Italy live recording of Lakota as the case for the defence. In the body of work NRH, TI and TTT she has produced songs that equal the very best and most durable in her canon of work and have for me stood the test of time and repeated listenings. Appreciation of the likes of Passion Play, Sire of Sorrow, Man from Mars, Stay in Touch, Love Puts on a New Face, Magdalene Laundries and Slouching Towards Bethlehem grows with every Ipod encounter. (Oh Ipod, however did I manage without you? Pod is God, Pod is Good....sorry). With these, eight or more years have elapsed. Time enough to underwrite this sentiment. I whole heartedly agree with Rob's estimation of Todd and Tom's continued growth and exploration. Never standing still. And RLJ? Well, having loaded all the CDs of hers I own onto Pod has really brought home to me just what a wonderful body of work she has produced over her lifetime. It's a reassurance to have something you heard once, revisited and for the musician to 'get them to feel that way' again. When you get the hit the first time, you want it again. But there will never be another Blue. Instead she brought you, Hejira. Not too shabby. Passion Play? Chills. Les (London) ...We are young only once...After that, we need some other excuse. - -----Original Message----- From: ROBMSTEEN@aol.com [mailto:ROBMSTEEN@aol.com] Sent: 15 April 2005 10:23 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #109 Joni, Rickie and the whole damned thing Rob from Cornwall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:49:17 +0200 From: "eastwest@xlsecurity.com" Subject: Johnnie Johnson, njc Em wrote that Johnnie Johnson was Chuck Berry's piano player. He was much more than that. Initially, Chuck was the guitarist in JJ's Combo. Being a sweet man, JJ agreed that Chuch change the name of the band to "Chuck Berry Combo" because, as JJ said, "Chuck was more of a go-getter". IMO, Chuck stole not only JJ's band and fame but all his piano riffs. As Keith Richards explained in the terrific movie "Hail Hail Rock'n Roll", that's why most of Chuck's songs are in piano keys, not guitar keys. Listen to JJ and you hear all Chuck Berry. As much as I love Chuck, credit should be given to JJ for his talent. In 92 I had the privilege of attending JJ's concert in L.A. I asked him permission to videotape it and he kindly granted it. In the music biz days, I thought this was a rare event. I said to myself while in a sarcastic mood that JJ had already given up his band so he had nothing more to care about. Truth is JJ was a kind gentle sweet human being, and IMO the KING OF PIANO BOOGIE. I'll sadly miss him. PS: Just last week I was watching ebay for JJ's instruction videos to inspire my boogie-playing pianist daughter. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:26:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Porous with joni fever NJC But of course! Claro que si! (insert any other language here). This is good news, Patti - your mastery and inclusion of Joni's lyrical dictionary amazes me - you're a good thing, and you know what they say about that. Can't have too much. Like our "buddy" says.."Bring it on".... Bob NP: Bruce, "Ricky Wants A Man of Her Own" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio Dude - hope you've healed from where you beat yourself up. But anyway, back to what I was writing about, which is Mellencamp, who RAWKS totally. I've been a fan since "Uh-Huh" which is an undisputed classic (as is Scarecrow and a couple others)and have kept up ever since. He's been ignored as "the poor-man's Springsteen" forever and wrongfully so. He's really grown as a writer, and moreso than just getting his name back (Johnny Cougar to John Mellencamp). If he's not remembered for anything else, he introduced Meshell Ndegeocello to my world with their cover of Van's "Wild Night". Thanks for the concert review - figured you'd appreciate him as you're an "authority fighter" as well. Bob NP: Ani, "Letting The Telephone Ring" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Johnnie Johnson, njc Hi Laurent, thanks so much for the added perspective. Its good to know *more* about Mr Johnnie Johnson. There is no doubt in my mind that much of the Chuck Berry success and phenomenon, wave caught, miracle worked, rock and roll invented, etc, was due to Johnnie - whether on the piano or on the guitar in the background during writing sessions or whatever. Would like to learn more of this man someday. And best wishes to your daughter, with her boogie woogie piano aspirations. GO! ;) Em - --- "eastwest@xlsecurity.com" wrote: > Em wrote that Johnnie Johnson was Chuck Berry's piano player. He was > much more than that. > Initially, Chuck was the guitarist in JJ's Combo. Being a sweet man, > JJ agreed that Chuch change the name of the band to "Chuck Berry > Combo" because, as JJ said, "Chuck was more of a go-getter". ....snip...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio Q: Where do cantaloupe send their children in the summer? A: John Cougar Mellencamp! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:16:45 -0400 From: "Tortorici, Frank" Subject: FW: April 11 New York Times I'm reposting this because I didn't see it on the list. Maybe I missed it - -----Original Message----- From: Tortorici, Frank Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:13 PM To: 'joni@smoe.org' Subject: April 11 New York Times In the April 11 New York Times there is an article about what President Bush is listening to on his Ipod. For some bizarre reason, he is listening to Joni's version of You're So Square (Baby I Don't Care)!!!! Along with stuff by such noted Bushhaters as John Fogerty!! Apparently, his media strategist downloaded the songs for him (no surprise there). Frank Tortorici ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Just in awe of the beauty of what a thrill it is to play this music! William Waddell wrote: Getting back to what Mark E was saying, it's a joy, an exhilaration to play Joni songs as she intended and I've been lushing and drooling and dare I say, nae I daren't, but it's got something to do with feeling satisfied at the very awesome second chord in Hejira - that 333000 one - the most beautiful chord ever. - ----- Isn't it? The brilliance of Hejira is apparent before Joni utters a word. I'm trying to find a way to describe the sensation of hearing/playing the intro...oh hell I can't do it, it's too early to think. It resonates in a way that is beyond words...something visceral. Mark in Seattle wrote regarding playing Joni from sheet music: >The transcription is pretty close to Joni's playing and I am just in awe of the beauty of it. What a thrill it is to play this music! - ----- A little gem in the guitar tab database is a piano transcription of Blue, by Howard Wright. It's great. I long for more piano transcriptions. Come on all you piano players out there, get to work. Two Grey Rooms anyone? Jenny Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:34:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC Capos bogus? Who is saying that? A pox upon them. My capo is indispensable. I did hear someone make fun of a friend who had put his capo on the first fret. What's the point of raising the tune a half step? For a singer, it can really make difference if it puts the song more in the sweet spot of your voice. Anyway, I don't have the time or inclination or innate talent to learn to play guitar in a way that would not require one. You could say the same thing about open tunings i guess. They allow amateur guitarists to play some pretty great sounding stuff without contorting our fingers in to god awful shapes. Jenny Em wrote: do people think capos are really bogus? or are they legit? usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo? thx Em Make Yahoo! your home page ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:58:38 -0400 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever JOHN SAID: > Don't you think it's a tad different when > it's the artist > doing the rehashes rather than the record company, > though? AND SMURF SAID: I think it's particularly odd that THIS artist is doing it, but she has her reasons which were mentioned in the earlier WSJ interview. One thing she doesn't mention as a reason for putting her energies into anthologies, however, is the deterioration of her voice. On the other hand, what Joni is doing is not so different from what a curator does in putting together a show of a certain period or style of a great visual artist. Often in the visual arts, the artist works hand in hand with the curator to put together a show. It's interesting that Joni is putting these together herself. I wonder if Ella Fitzgerald ever got to put together one of her endless collections/greatest hits/anthologies. Wouldn't that be great to know? Wouldn't it be great if someone had asked Ella to write down why she thought a certain piece was among her best? That said, the thing that really IRRITATES me about these compilations is not that I don't think that she should do them but that I would much prefer she issue demos and live versions etc. of the LPs we all love the best. She's trying really hard to bring in a new fan base. I wish she would do a little more to please the loyal fan base she already has! Can you imagine a CD with alternate versions, live versions, demos, etc. from Blue or THOSL or Hejira? Now that would bring fans out of the woodwork. David NP Green Day ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:09:44 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: (njc) Wike Bunnies that night down south between the twaiwers Hi gang -- A must see -- 30-second re-enactments of famous movies, done as cartoons, with bunnies. Go to angryalien.com. Sorry if someone has already brought this up -- the site has been there awhile -- but just in case no one has, a very worthwhile place to go. Still hoping I can get tickets to see the Joanster talk here at the Commonwealth Club on my b-day -- thanks for the call, Smurf! Walt - -- Wet the hutches go tumbwing down Fawwing on the gwound And aww the bunnies go wunning fwee The wiwd and kwazy wabbits Kennewed in me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:16:10 -0400 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Rants and raves BRYAN SAID: >Now hold on, we don't know that she really dissed Shawn. These articles can be very misleading, it's entirely possible >that neither the reporter or Joni ever mentioned SC specifically during the interview. On the other hand....well, we >don't really know. >Lately I have really been digging Shawn's Polaroids CD. Some of those songs are just fantastic. I was once sentenced to two years on Ohio (and I swear I was innocent!). I don't think I would have survived those two bleak years without Joni's Chalk Mark and Shawn's Fat City - especially the songs My Secret Place and Polaroids (brilliant piece). Those two albums really saved me from going off the deep end during my painful stays in the ultraconservative Canton and the barren wasteland called Toledo. Ugh. Of course, the all-naked, all-boy strip clubs in Windsor helped ease my pain, but that's a different story. There's something about Polaroids that always reminded me of another song I had loved years before, Shot Through the Heart by Jennifer Warren . . . a feeling that you are really sharing someone's innermost thoughts, a sense of intimacy so strong you almost feel embarrassed to be there. David NP The Killers ______________________ David Henderson Phone 212-568-8736 Cell 917-488-9086 jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:50:00 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: Porous with joni fever NJC Mille mercis, Frhre Bob! It sounded like applause from your air-conditioned cubicle! ".....your mastery and inclusion of Joni's lyrical dictionary amazes me....." Really, it's just as natural as the weather in this moody sky today -- I can't help it. Songs are like tatoos, as you know. And Joni's are in my blood like holy wine -- plus I can always get an extra fix when needed here at the jmdl lyrics database. What a treasure THAT is! There's no comprehending......we all come from such different sets of circumstance. Your devotion to Joni covers amazes ME, so let's all just continue to amaze each other....it's a warm arrangement! It is so good to be here, where people understand. My friends and family and co-workers get very worried about my JMOCD sometimes. XO et bon weekend, everyone! Patti NPIMH: Oh starbright starbright You've got the Joni-lovin' that I like all right Turn this crazy girl around, I shouldn't have gotten on this site last night! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:58:12 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel Hi gang, SCJoniBob said: <<[snip] It says "Rhino has signed Ms. Mitchell to do three more compilations. The first one, "Songs of a Prairie Girl," will be released in April". Dammit, this is practically impossible to believe. I suppose when she finally titles one "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" we'll all know she's done. >> Don't you think she already put out "the bottom" with "The Beginning of Survival"? Prairie Girl seems refreshing by comparison, although I still think it sucks that she skipped "Facelift" on "Prairie". my 2c, Walt - -- Let the barrels go draining out Draining on the ground And all the "dogs" go running free (again) The tired and repeating dogs That once came pouring out of me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:53:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Joni's Lyrics in another language Hi to all, One of the students in the class I am assisting in school asked me if I can translate the lyrics of the song of his favorite band so he can submit it to his class -- I guess there is a Derridean slant to this project. So I complied with the request and found myself smiling while doing it. Was wondering if Joni's song lyrics lend themselves better in another language or will there be a great loss in translation. Has there ever been a song of Joni's that was sung and/or translated in another language? I would be interested to read them even if I do not know the language but imagine how it would sound. For some of us here where English is not the first language, has anyone heard of BSN in French or Dutch or Portuguese? Joseph in Chapel Hill - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Criez votre Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:09:54 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: I'll tell her it's my birthday, and... Hi gang, I'm going to try to get tickets for the Commonwealth club thing for the 22nd, and I ***never*** do things like this, but if I can get anywhere near the Joanster, I'm going to suggest she do the following: Put out a special edition double CD *for her grandchildren* with artwork: CD1 to collect all the various songs that, appropriately or not, are considered kiddy classics (BSN CGame, BYT) and maybe some (gasp) new songs to accompany, e.g., her lovely painting of herself and Kilauren and the kids floating over Paris, etc. CD2-- The Christmas Album she promised so long ago -- containing already extant or perhaps new recordings of Gift of the Magi, River, Chinese Cafe, Facelift, and any Xmas carols she feels like singing. Speaking of the Comm Club thingy, a little bird (a *blue* bird, if you catch my drift) told me by phone yesterday that Julius (and wife?) and a person named Kathy whom I don't know but understand is a long-term member of the list, are likely to attend -- anyone else, and is there a place we could meet beforehand? You can contact me offlist if you'd like... Best to all, Walt - -- Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:19:53 -0400 From: bryan8847@aol.com Subject: Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues Actually it occurs to me that, if Joni and her record companies are so interested in revisiting and rereleasing, they should just re-do Blue in a totally remastered edition with some bonus tracks (such as from the concert with JT that happened at about that time), etc. Blue is nearly every critic's darling and a good seller still. It seems to be the obvious choice, followed by C&S perhaps. To me, it makes more sense to reissue older albums in their entirety, with bonus features and updates, rather than career-spanning compilations. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel Yes, I would agree, Walt...I was just kinda making a lil' joke. To make it perfectly clear, TBOS does have some of her best work on it (Passion Play, Slouching, Black Wings and Magdalene Laundries) but it has more turkeys in there than a Fluor Thanksgiving luncheon as well. All that's missing is the uber-nasty Dancing Clown, which she inflicted upon Dreamland, Lead Balloon, and Pirate of Penance which may escape the regurgitation process altogether. Prairie Wreck actually has a great setlist, I know a lot of folks are put off by Ray's Dad's Cadillac but I think it's a very gentle and fun reminisence with a pretty and easily internalized melody. Could have been better produced, but that can be said about almost everything in the DED-NRH period imo. Bob NP: Gang of Four, "Ether" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:08:42 +0100 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Re: Joni's Lyrics in another language Well, I have BSN in Welsh and Vietnamese (thanks Bob) if that's any help! Ric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Palis" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 5:53 PM Subject: Joni's Lyrics in another language > Hi to all, > > One of the students in the class I am assisting in school asked me if I > can translate the lyrics of the song of his favorite band so he can submit > it to his class -- I guess there is a Derridean slant to this project. So > I complied with the request and found myself smiling while doing it. Was > wondering if Joni's song lyrics lend themselves better in another language > or will there be a great loss in translation. Has there ever been a song > of Joni's that was sung and/or translated in another language? I would be > interested to read them even if I do not know the language but imagine how > it would sound. For some of us here where English is not the first > language, has anyone heard of BSN in French or Dutch or Portuguese? > > Joseph in Chapel Hill > > > > --------------------------------- > Dicouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos > mails ! > Criez votre Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:32:23 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: "Jeremy" and the other "lost" songs... Hey, Mark, Glad you're enjoying learning "Blue" and the like -- I'm going through a similar experience with the eight songs Ron Lindlay (thanks, again, Rob!!!) sent me from Joni's first sheet music book, which had all of the stuff from the first two albums (as apposed to the three on Complete v.1 which you just got) *plus* eight never on any album. The arranglements are primitive, but back in the '70's, when I first saw these songs, I had worked out slightly better arrangments for "Jeremy" and "A Melody In Your Name". Now having heard "Melody" and "Carnaval In Kenora" and "Winter Lady" thanks to my associations with this wonderful group, I'm going to go back to those three songs, and also see if I reconstruct what I did with "Jeremy" thirty years ago. Yowsa, what fun! Speaking of the lost songs, are there *any* known recordings of any of these five?: Moon In The Mirror Poor Sad Baby Straw-Flower Me Who Has Seen The Wind? Jeremy (I also just got the sheet music to Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature", and boy, it ain't easy!) Best to all, Walt Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni's Lyrics in another language Which ones HAVEN'T been would be an easier question for me to answer...Of course, BSN leads the pack with non-English versions. Both Nana Mouskouri & Marie LaForet have recorded it in French. I've got versions in Hebrew, Dutch, Welsh, Japanese, Spanish, German, Belgian, Swedish (don't have this one but it's out there). There's an Amelia in Portuguese, BYT in Japanese & German, Carey in Hebrew, Chelsea Morning in Hebrew & Swedish, I Had A King in Swedish, Morning Morgantown in Swedish, Circle Game in German & Swedish, Last Time I Saw Richard in Spanish, and you know.... Don't know the best way to view the lyrics, but I'm happy to send you a sound file of any of them. Bob NP: Seal, "Killer" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:53:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni's Lyrics in another language Oh yeah, I forgot about that Dengue Fever recording - actually Cambodian which I assume is different from Vietnamese, I don't know fer sher. And thank YOU for the Welsh version. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "The Day After Tomorrow" Ric Robinson wrote: Well, I have BSN in Welsh and Vietnamese (thanks Bob) if that's any help! Ric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Palis" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 5:53 PM Subject: Joni's Lyrics in another language > Hi to all, > > One of the students in the class I am assisting in school asked me if I > can translate the lyrics of the song of his favorite band so he can submit > it to his class -- I guess there is a Derridean slant to this project. So > I complied with the request and found myself smiling while doing it. Was > wondering if Joni's song lyrics lend themselves better in another language > or will there be a great loss in translation. Has there ever been a song > of Joni's that was sung and/or translated in another language? I would be > interested to read them even if I do not know the language but imagine how > it would sound. For some of us here where English is not the first > language, has anyone heard of BSN in French or Dutch or Portuguese? > > Joseph in Chapel Hill > > > > --------------------------------- > Dicouvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos > mails ! > Criez votre Yahoo! Mail Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. And an official version of "Hunter" which she recorded during that session. Not a bad idea Bryan...just last Saturday I bought a re-release of Ben Folds Five's classic "Whatever And Ever Amen" because they added 7 bonus tracks to it. Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "Blame It On The Sun" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:14:05 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC If they're good enough for the Beatles, they're good enough for me. Here Comes The Sun - capo VII play D Julia - capo II play C If a song is in Eb, Ab, etc, a capo can help alot, too. Good for recording, too, put it on a second guitar part to get that sparkly hi-strung sound. (It is good to be able to play in all keys, without one if you have to). RR Em wrote: > do people think capos are really bogus? > or are they legit? > usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... > like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo? > thx > Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:32:44 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Barell bottoms, reissues, etc. But that isn't the period of her career that she's trying to 'rescue' from obscurity. Not that I would complain about seeing that BBC concert issued as a legit cd with all the mastering bells and whistles that Reprise or Rhino could do with it. Mark E. in Seattle bryan8847@aol.com wrote: > Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues > > Actually it occurs to me that, if Joni and her record companies are > so interested in revisiting and rereleasing, they should just re-do > Blue in a totally remastered edition with some bonus tracks (such as > from the concert with JT that happened at about that time), etc. > Blue > is nearly every critic's darling and a good seller still. It seems > to > be the obvious choice, followed by C&S perhaps. To me, it makes more > sense to reissue older albums in their entirety, with bonus features > and updates, rather than career-spanning compilations. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:55:18 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Gmail and the list (njc) > If anyone wants an account, let me know. I have about 90 billion of them to > offer. I also have 90 billion to offer if Les runs out. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:47:13 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC > do people think capos are really bogus? > or are they legit? From what I understand, most Mafia types are something less than legit. ; ) Oh! You're talking about a guitar capo, you say? I have one for my guitar, one of those nice Kyser Quick-Change models that you can operate with one hand. It looks really cool, which is good because I've been playing the same two dozen chords on my guitar since I was 15 and I STILL don't know an actual song (other than a few I wrote when I was about ... 15). But my capo looked its very best at JoniFest 2002, where it was used - -- and so beautifully! -- by Gisele! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:19:51 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni at BMG record club BMG record club offers these 11 titles: LOTC, Blue, FTR, C&S, MoA, TI, h, TTT, Tlog, BSN, BoS. http://www.bmgmusic.com/acq/ct/bmg/ To get the full effect, I suppose you should buy one every two years, in chronolgical order, until you hit "Hejira". You play "Hejira" once, set it aside for 6 months, play it once, set it aside again for a month, then play it 5 times a day until... well, until it runs all through your circuits like... I dunno... Like a dragonfly on a tomb? Line please? Lama (trolling for some newbies) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:42:24 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: old joni articles, and jaco Deb, if memory serves, Joni said that during mixing, ~~Jaco kept telling me to turn up the bass. And I did. He was RIGHT.~~ That said, Mister Pastorius was known to exaggerate sometimes by sane, sober people around him. I'm always glad to see additions to The Library. It's good work and much appreciated. Lama Deb Messling said, > Found one interesting little item , I think in a college newspaper. Is it generally known that Jaco Pastorius claimed to have "produced" DJRD? I have a little article that quotes him as saying Joni didn't know what she was doing, called him for help, everything was a real mess, he had to produce the whole f*king album.> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:05:09 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: guitar ?? NJC I'm not a guitarist, but I'm a know-it-all, so I'll answer it anyway. I've seen these people use a capo: Richard Thompson, Joni Mitchell, and Eric Clapton. You can take it from there. Jim L'Hommedieu Em asked, >do people think capos are really bogus? or are they legit? usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo?> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:23:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC Ha! guess that about nails it! thx Lama, and Randy and Lori and Jenny, for the input. Em ps yeah but how about Bert Jansch or Norman Blake or Danny Gatton, huh????..kiddin' ;) - --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I'm not a guitarist, but I'm a know-it-all, so I'll answer it anyway. > > I've seen these people use a capo: Richard Thompson, Joni Mitchell, > and > Eric Clapton. > > You can take it from there. > > Jim L'Hommedieu > > Em asked, > >do people think capos are really bogus? > or are they legit? > usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... > like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo?> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:32:05 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel You know, I actively hated Facelift ever since TTT came out. But listening to it in a few unofficial shows I've managed to acquire via the JMDL hub (the hub welcomes and is still waiting for more jonilistas with broadband connections to join--you don't know what you are missing) I really like it. I still hate the refrain: the line "Happiness is the Best Facelift" still strikes me as Joni does bad Charlie Brown--the Peanuts Charlie Brown--but I've managed to forgive it given that the rest of the song (and the stage patter before it) is so good. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of littlebreen@comcast.net Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:58 PM To: scjoniguy@yahoo.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel Hi gang, SCJoniBob said: <<[snip] It says "Rhino has signed Ms. Mitchell to do three more compilations. The first one, "Songs of a Prairie Girl," will be released in April". Dammit, this is practically impossible to believe. I suppose when she finally titles one "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" we'll all know she's done. >> Don't you think she already put out "the bottom" with "The Beginning of Survival"? Prairie Girl seems refreshing by comparison, although I still think it sucks that she skipped "Facelift" on "Prairie". my 2c, Walt - -- Let the barrels go draining out Draining on the ground And all the "dogs" go running free (again) The tired and repeating dogs That once came pouring out of me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:34:16 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: guitar ?? NJC When I put on a capo during my shows, I always refer to it as a hillbilly cheater. But seriously, no shame in a capo. If you know how to use one well, you also know how to transpose well enough to do without one in a pinch. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Em Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 7:23 PM To: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC Ha! guess that about nails it! thx Lama, and Randy and Lori and Jenny, for the input. Em ps yeah but how about Bert Jansch or Norman Blake or Danny Gatton, huh????..kiddin' ;) - --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I'm not a guitarist, but I'm a know-it-all, so I'll answer it anyway. > > I've seen these people use a capo: Richard Thompson, Joni Mitchell, > and > Eric Clapton. > > You can take it from there. > > Jim L'Hommedieu > > Em asked, > >do people think capos are really bogus? > or are they legit? > usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... > like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo?> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:37:48 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: Words and Music Tour NJC Bob Muller wrote: > > , back to what I was writing about, which is Mellencamp, who RAWKS > totally. I've been a fan since "Uh-Huh" which is an undisputed > classic (as is Scarecrow and a couple others)and have kept up ever > since. He's been ignored as "the poor-man's Springsteen" forever > and wrongfully so. He's really grown as a writer, and moreso than > just getting his name back (Johnny Cougar to John Mellencamp). If > he's not remembered for anything else, he introduced Meshell > Ndegeocello to my world with their cover of Van's "Wild Night". > > Thanks for the concert review - figured you'd appreciate him as > you're an "authority fighter" as well. > taking to a Mellencamp fan, he pointed out the zydeco influence was always there and over lunch I listened to one disc of the new cd and damn it was. still surprised how strong the zydeco was for both sets - and how well it worked. The guitarist who so impressed by his great play and cool demeanor is Andy York. I also felt during the concert that Mellencamp is the heir to Eddie Cochran, at least in that Mellencamp would have fit right in with those 50 touring rock and roll reviews, sharing stage with an Eddie Cochran, Buddy Holly, etc. He'd fit right in. Maybe that was one of the things that so won me over was the utter roots sound of the rock and roll of Mellencamp - and it did turn out to be a rock and roll evening more than a rock evening. So glad I went. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:27:23 +0000 From: littlebreen@comcast.net Subject: Was: Bottom, Now: Happiness Richard said: <> Yeah, my first exposure to it was when she performed it on ABC This Morning, or whatever show that was, in '95, I think -- I taped it and have it around here somewhere. Anyway, as usual, and (Paz, this is pre-emptively directed at you) although *not* the fault of the G-8 or G-88 or whatever it's called but rather how it was used on PWWAM and (esp.) TtT, but the original, simpler version of Facelift was charming, and I still find it among her most charming, happy, lovely songs. [Joni-as-therapy aside: When I was battling cancer and pneumocystis in '95-'96, I used to sing along to, and break down doing so, Job's Sad Song from TI, esp. the line "What have I done to you, that you make everything I say and everything I do come true?" What a great line of rage!! (Heart and humor translates, for me, into ferocity and laughter). Four years later, when my father got terminally ill and I went home to RI to help my sister and mom take care of him in the fall of '99, I used to sing "Facelift". Although the song mostly makes me smile -- I love the poetry of the last stanza -- for some reason, Joni's obvious struggle to deal with her mother, even as she was in her 50's and her mom in her 80's, both charms me and makes me weep, the latter spe. the line "For God's sake, I'm middle aged, Mama, and time moves swift, and you know, etc."...] <> Your point is well taken, but for some reason, Joni's sloppiness (perhaps the wrong word?) in Man From Mars ("I can't get through the day/Without at least one big boo-hoo", yeesh) and Facelift (the above "Happiness is..."), compared with some of her most astounding poetry, somehow humanizes her, to me, shows her able to laugh at herself. There is more joy and laughter in this album than perhaps in any other. Harlem in Havana, Love Puts On... (with the wonderful lines "I wish you were with me here/The leaves are electric.../Well send me some pcitures then/And I'll paint pyrotechnic...", which I quoted to my best pal Stephan from Quebec, when he and I were mooning over missing the fall colors back east, and he loved it!), Stay In Touch, Here's To You. Even the slightly vitriolic Lead Balloon and TtT itself show some self-deprecating humor. But I'm a sap -- Keep in mind my favorite Jonis are Jericho, Just Like This train, Silky Veils of Ardor, Love (Cornithians), Lucky Girl, all of them kind of pro-love and self-deprecating. Okay, I also love the slightly creepy Wolf That Lives..., but that's cuz of the melody. Anyway, better "Happiness is..." than "Sex Kills", imho. Peace and love, and particularly happiness, Richard and all the other jmdl bunnies, Walt -- Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me > You know, I actively hated Facelift ever since TTT came out. But listening > to it in a few unofficial shows I've managed to acquire via the JMDL hub > (the hub welcomes and is still waiting for more jonilistas with broadband > connections to join--you don't know what you are missing) I really like it. > > I still hate the refrain: the line "Happiness is the Best Facelift" still > strikes me as Joni does bad Charlie Brown--the Peanuts Charlie Brown--but > I've managed to forgive it given that the rest of the song (and the stage > patter before it) is so good. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of > littlebreen@comcast.net > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:58 PM > To: scjoniguy@yahoo.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: The Beginning of the Bottom of the Barrel > > Hi gang, > > SCJoniBob said: > > <<[snip] It says "Rhino has signed Ms. Mitchell to do three more > compilations. The first one, > "Songs of a Prairie Girl," will be released in April". > > Dammit, this is practically impossible to believe. I suppose when she > finally > titles one "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" we'll all know she's done. >> > > Don't you think she already put out "the bottom" with "The Beginning of > Survival"? Prairie Girl seems refreshing by comparison, although I still > think it sucks that she skipped "Facelift" on "Prairie". > > my 2c, > > Walt > > -- > Let the barrels go draining out > Draining on the ground > And all the "dogs" go running free (again) > The tired and repeating dogs > That once came pouring out of me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:43:18 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Walter Becker loves Joan For Starbucks' collection of Joni's songs, Walter Becker picked the studio version of "God Must Be a Boogie Man". (He finds it) >Impossible to pick "a favorite" from Joni's catalog because as a body of work it is altogether too magnificent and far-ranging to be epitomized in a single track. Having said that, this is my favorite cut from Joni's MINGUS album, an incredible duet performance by Joni and Jaco with a guest vocal, great playing, wonderfully lean and elegant musical structure and rich, soulful lyrics. For me, the entire album was and is a revelation - more musical, more masterfully realized, and far more fun to listen to than anything else being done at that time. Within Joni's body of work, it stands as a masterpiece among masterpieces. It's a cut that has never yet failed to satisfy and delight.> Lama the disc is "Joni Mitchell: songs chosen by her friends & fellow musicians", UPC 62111-68628, available now at Starbucks Coffee and (often) on Ebay. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:17:22 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: You Turn Me On, I'm an iPod The inevitable from today's Los Angeles Times: Now Picture Tem Singing it in the Shower.. By Bruce Kluger and David Slavin Earlier this week, armchair musicologists across the nation went into overdrive when the media revealed the contents of the presidential iPod. If music does indeed make the man, as experts suggest, the First Playlist tells us that George W. Bush is a down-home country boy (Alan Jackson, George Jones) with a sensitive side (Joni Mitchell) and a hint of naughtiness (the Knack's "My Sharona"). What similar conclusions can we draw from other newsmakers' iPods? Dick Cheney: "You and Me Against the World"; "Total Eclipse of the Heart" Donald Rumsfeld: "Rocket Man"; "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word" Condoleezza Rice: "Hopelessly Devoted to You" Karl Rove: "Under My Thumb"; "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?" Alberto Gonzales: "Whip It" Colin Powell: "Free Bird" John Bolton: "It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)" Jalal Talabani: "I'm Your Puppet" Mahmoud Abbas: "Don't Fence Me In" Saddam Hussein: "You Dropped a Bomb on Me" Kofi Annan: "Won't Get Fooled Again"; "Carry On, Wayward Son" Bill Clinton: "Sexual Healing" Al Gore: "March of the Wooden Soldiers" John Kerry: "I'm a Loser" Ralph Nader: "Born to Run" Dennis Hastert: "Our House" Nancy Pelosi: "Our House" Tom DeLay: "Burnin' Down the House" John McCain: "Always True to You in My Fashion" Zell Miller: "Crazy" (Patsy Cline), "Crazy" (k.d. lang), "Crazy" (Willie Nelson) Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" Barry Bonds: "Pump It Up" Bill O'Reilly: "I Just Called to Say I Love You" Michael Jackson: "The Kids Are Alright"; "Can't Help Myself" Maria Shriver: "Take This Job and Shove It" Bruce Kluger and David Slavin write satire for National Public Radio's "All Things Considered." ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #162 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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