From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #161 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 15 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 161 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues ["John T. Fold] "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" rant ["David Henderson" ] Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: NJC For the Love of Money ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: Joni in the Wall Street Journal ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] guitar ?? NJC [Em ] Re: guitar ?? NJC [Smurf ] Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Just in awe of the beauty of what a thrill it is to play this music! ["Wi] old joni articles, and jaco [Deb Messling ] Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever ["John T. Folden" ] Porous with joni fever ["Patti Parlette" ] Gmail and the list (njc) ["Les Irvin" ] Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio [vince ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:28:43 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues On Apr 14, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Azeem wrote: > able to be held in a VERY small building. And I don't buy this notion > that songs that sound mediocre now (like nearly all of Wild Things Run > Fast) are going to sound any better once another five or ten summers > have passed. Oh, I don't know about that... It was only this year that I finally sat down and was able to enjoy a lot of the material there for what it is instead of what I wished it could be. This is true to a lesser extent with DED, as well. > You needn't spare my delicate sensibilities: I WAS one of those people > who only listened to Travelogue once, and I felt I deserved a bloody > medal after I made it to the end! It merely confirmed what Both Sides > Now had signalled, which was a catastrophic decline in her vocal > powers, > to the extent where I honestly believed that she can't sing any more I have to admit I thought that about BSN, so much so that I didn't listen to it much and shied away from Travelogue a bit, as well. Then I had a lengthy listen to Diana Krall's latest squawking and suddenly Joni didn't sound so bad. I really, really wish that Joni's voice had the range it did 15 years ago but there's nothing I can do about it. ...and after a little perspective on it I'm still able to enjoy it. > There is also a danger that someone who's vaguely heard of Joni buys > The > Beginning Of Survival as a way in and thinks "Well, it's all right, > some > good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't bother going > any > further." People could say that about ANY of her albums, though, honestly. It all comes down to personal taste and opinion. If my first exposure to Joni had been For The Roses or Mingus instead of Hissing I'd have been saying "Well, it's all right, some good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't bother going any further." John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:16:39 -0400 From: "David Henderson" Subject: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" rant First, the The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel line was hysterical. I agree with you both that shes not doing this for money. I tend to agree with Mark that Azeem is not giving her later music a fair shake, but thats an old argument. That said, what about The Wolf That Lives in Lindsay, God Must Be A Boogie Man, Chinese Cafi, Moon at the Window, Be Cool, Love, Fiction, DED, Ethiopia, The Three Great Stimulants . . . ? And thats just tunes from three of the six CDs. The thing is, IMHO, Joni created six perfect albums: Blue, FTR, C&S, THOSL, Hejira and DJRD. Who else has created SIX albums that were so thrilling and creative? The Beatles, Dylan, The Stones, Elton John . . . Not very many others, I would guess. What a run! Everything after that was bound to be a bit of a letdown, but she has written some incredible work over the last 25 years. We Joni fans are so spoiled! Theres one thing about the compilations I dont get: Why the ugly covers? The covers of both collections look so polite and boring. What was she thinking? At least Little Songs on the Prairie has a cool picture. ;) David NP Shadows & Light PS RE the Bowie comment. I really think hes a great artist, but I also think he records three or four crap albums for every good album, imho, no offense to fans. He does look better than Joni in heavy makeup. MARK AND AZEEM SAID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:03:25 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues Azeem wrote: And I don't buy this > notion that songs that sound mediocre now (like nearly all of Wild > Things Run Fast) are going to sound any better once another five or > ten summers have passed. > That's why people can return to > Hejira again and again and find more in it; or give Mingus one last > despairing try - and finally it clicks! I guess we will never see eye to eye on this. Quite frankly I find 'Moon at the Window', 'Be Cool', 'You Dream Flat Tires' and 'Ladies Man' to be far more interesting musically than anything on Hejira with the possible exception of 'Blue Motel Room'. Don't get me wrong. Hejira is brilliant and her soul-searching self-analysis has never been more indepth than on that record. But to me it has a very limited range of musical colors. The melodies are very repititious. Not so much a criticism as it fits the themes and tone of the record. Merely an observation. There are many later songs that have more interesting melodies, imo. I think 'Taming the Tiger' is just as daring in its way as Hejira. > > There are precedents for this. David Bowie's back catalogue has > been > re-released several times since CD appeared, a strategy I don't > like - > but each time it seems to have generated interest, and the albums > have > all made reappearances in the top 75. I may be wrong about this but I think Bowie has a bigger following and probably sold more records over the course of his career. I doubt that re-releasing Joni's post Court and Spark catalogue with added rarities, demos, etc. would generate as much interest. Bowie always had the ability to call attention to himself and still does. > People like Nick Drake and Eva Cassidy have obviously had massive > resurgences of interest in the last decade. Well I hate to sound cynical but these two people have the decided advantage of being dead. There is very often a resurgence of interest in an artist's work after they have departed this world. In Eva Cassidy's case, I believe the recognition did not come until after she was gone. > > There is also a danger that someone who's vaguely heard of Joni buys > The Beginning Of Survival as a way in and thinks "Well, it's all > right, some good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't > bother going any further." And then again, somebody might pick it up that would like the kind of topical, edgy material that's on it better than some of Joni's more personal, acoustic work. It is, after all, all a matter of personal taste. Mark E. in Seattle ______________________ David Henderson Phone 212-568-8736 Cell 917-488-9086 jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:27:34 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate hi >>>>> Aged pop princess Joni Mitchell says Vineyard troubadour James Taylor was the best lover she ever had. So good, in fact, that Joni's now celibate! <<<<<< no juices - no music ????? ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:43:45 -0400 From: bryan8847@aol.com Subject: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever >Subject: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues >And where does she get off dissing Shawn Colvin whose second album was >produced by the Larry with Joni doing guitar case percussion? Now hold on, we don't know that she really dissed Shawn. These articles can be very misleading, it's entirely possible that neither the reporter or Joni ever mentioned SC specifically during the interview. On the other hand....well, we don't really know. Lately I have really been digging Shawn's Polaroids CD. Some of those songs are just fantastic. Bryan And furthermore, I don't give a shit...and it's really none of our business... if Joni is releasing anthologies to make money (if that is in fact her primary motivation, though I think it is not). My only concern is that these many anthologies may weaken her legacy rather than strengthen it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:48:44 -0400 From: bryan8847@aol.com Subject: Smokin' for Clean Air >Subject: Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? >I'm there! Just got a couple of tickets...and it's just a week away. >I'm beside myself with excitement! I can't believe I hadn't heard of >this before. Right in my own back yard. I'm bummed that I got shut >out of the Premium tickets though, which include a private reception >with her. I'm gonna keep on trying to score those! - - -Julius Perhaps she will chain-smoke while talking about the environment. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:29:31 -0400 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" rant I'm with you, David. Darn few recording artists have produced such a body of excellent, original work. True, when she streched, she lost some of us on the sharp curves and we had to catch up to "get" what Joni was doing. Still, one does not have to groove to everything an artist produces to be love the total body of work. If there is anything about Joni that I find a little tedious, it is her whining about the musical industry. It seems she gets off on the role of victimized artiste', Michaelangelo chained to the whims of popes and Medicis. Joni knew what she was doing the whole time. She said so in River: "I'm gonna make a lot of money then I'm gonna quit this crazy scene....", back in 1969! That said, I'm sure there were still artistic disappointments when she was told she could "do whatever you want" and then had to listen to negative feedback from producers looking for a new pop jingle. But even that should not have surprised her. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Henderson" To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel" rant > First, the The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel line was hysterical. > > > > I agree with you both that shes not doing this for money. > > > > I tend to agree with Mark that Azeem is not giving her later music a fair > shake, but thats an old argument. That said, what about The Wolf That > Lives in Lindsay, God Must Be A Boogie Man, Chinese Cafi, Moon at the > Window, Be Cool, Love, Fiction, DED, Ethiopia, The Three Great Stimulants . > . . ? And thats just tunes from three of the six CDs. > > > > The thing is, IMHO, Joni created six perfect albums: Blue, FTR, C&S, THOSL, > Hejira and DJRD. Who else has created SIX albums that were so thrilling and > creative? The Beatles, Dylan, The Stones, Elton John . . . Not very many > others, I would guess. What a run! Everything after that was bound to be a > bit of a letdown, but she has written some incredible work over the last 25 > years. We Joni fans are so spoiled! > > > > Theres one thing about the compilations I dont get: Why the ugly covers? > The covers of both collections look so polite and boring. What was she > thinking? At least Little Songs on the Prairie has a cool picture. ;) > > > > David > > NP Shadows & Light > > > > PS RE the Bowie comment. I really think hes a great artist, but I also > think he records three or four crap albums for every good album, imho, no > offense to fans. He does look better than Joni in heavy makeup. > > > > > > > > MARK AND AZEEM SAID: > > Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:03:25 -0700 > > From: "Mark or Travis" > > Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues > > > > Azeem wrote: > > And I don't buy this > > > notion that songs that sound mediocre now (like nearly all of Wild > > > Things Run Fast) are going to sound any better once another five or > > > ten summers have passed. > > > > > That's why people can return to > > > Hejira again and again and find more in it; or give Mingus one last > > > despairing try - and finally it clicks! > > > > I guess we will never see eye to eye on this. Quite frankly I find > > 'Moon at the Window', 'Be Cool', 'You Dream Flat Tires' and 'Ladies > > Man' to be far more interesting musically than anything on Hejira with > > the possible exception of 'Blue Motel Room'. Don't get me wrong. > > Hejira is brilliant and her soul-searching self-analysis has never > > been more indepth than on that record. But to me it has a very > > limited range of musical colors. The melodies are very repititious. > > Not so much a criticism as it fits the themes and tone of the record. > > Merely an observation. There are many later songs that have more > > interesting melodies, imo. I think 'Taming the Tiger' is just as > > daring in its way as Hejira. > > > > > > There are precedents for this. David Bowie's back catalogue has > > > been > > > re-released several times since CD appeared, a strategy I don't > > > like - > > > but each time it seems to have generated interest, and the albums > > > have > > > all made reappearances in the top 75. > > > > I may be wrong about this but I think Bowie has a bigger following and > > probably sold more records over the course of his career. I doubt > > that re-releasing Joni's post Court and Spark catalogue with added > > rarities, demos, etc. would generate as much interest. Bowie always > > had the ability to call attention to himself and still does. > > > > > > > People like Nick Drake and Eva Cassidy have obviously had massive > > > resurgences of interest in the last decade. > > > > Well I hate to sound cynical but these two people have the decided > > advantage of being dead. There is very often a resurgence of interest > > in an artist's work after they have departed this world. In Eva > > Cassidy's case, I believe the recognition did not come until after she > > was gone. > > > > > > > > There is also a danger that someone who's vaguely heard of Joni buys > > > The Beginning Of Survival as a way in and thinks "Well, it's all > > > right, some good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't > > > bother going any further." > > > > And then again, somebody might pick it up that would like the kind of > > topical, edgy material that's on it better than some of Joni's more > > personal, acoustic work. It is, after all, all a matter of personal > > taste. > > > > Mark E. in Seattle > > > > > > ______________________ > > David Henderson > Phone 212-568-8736 > Cell 917-488-9086 > jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever - --- Bryan wrote: > My > only concern is that these many anthologies may > weaken her legacy rather than strengthen it. Hi, Bryan. In my opinion, the idea of Joni weakening her legacy with too many anthologies has been mentioned over and over again to the point where it has been assumed to be the truth. But I have anthologies of the music of Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Judy Garland, Cole Porter and many others, and if their legacies have been weakened by anthologies, I haven't noticed. - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:07:34 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever On Apr 14, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Smurf wrote: > be the truth. But I have anthologies of the music of > Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Judy > Garland, Cole Porter and many others, and if their > legacies have been weakened by anthologies, I haven't > noticed. I have to say that I look at those mention above as mere singers (other than Porter) than being known for their artistic works and concept albums... Don't you think it's a tad different when it's the artist doing the rehashes rather than the record company, though? I'm used to Warner Bros, for example, milking all they can from old stock but it's a strange rarity to have the artist themselves doing it and doing it repeatedly. How many of these things have we had now starting with Hits and Misses, including Travelogue, and up to Prairie Girl? If we don't stop soon there will be more of these than original albums. :-p It already looks like that in the Joni section of a typical record store in my area... one or two copies of C&S and/or Blue and a baker's dozen of these compilations. I'm not sure it's helping... I mean, yeah, at least she has a product on the shelves with a recent copyright date there somewhere but I used to see much more variety of product. Where have the cd's of Hissing, Hejira or DJRD gone? John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:18:00 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever Bob wrote: > In my opinion, the idea of Joni weakening her legacy > with too many anthologies has been mentioned over and > over again to the point where it has been assumed to > be the truth. But I have anthologies of the music of > Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Judy > Garland, Cole Porter and many others, and if their > legacies have been weakened by anthologies, I haven't > noticed. I'm with you on this one. Anthologies are also a great way to be introduced to an artist you haven't really heard before. "Greatest Hits" albums are the way I first became interested in James Taylor, CSN, Bonnie Raitt, Joan Baez, The Beatles, The Bangles, David Bowie, Buffalo Springfield, etc., etc., etc. - there are too many to list them all. I still buy these types of albums when I like an artist, but don't know which album to buy - it's a good starting point. Joni may be producing a lot of these, but maybe that's also a good thing. New fans could start with any one of them, and still get some great music. And having more than one might send the message that there are so many good songs, they couldn't be contained on one album. Another thing - Joni has at least earned the right to put out a few compilations, unlike some of the greatest hits albums coming out now from artists who have only been recording for a couple of years! Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:40:26 -0400 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever John; and then you said: "but it's a strange rarity to have the artist themselves doing it and doing it repeatedly." And this from the lady who complained (sort of) about being asked to sing her fans' favorite songs over and over. (I'm thinking of the interlude on MOA where she compares performing artists to painters.) But more importantly, where IS Hissing? Hejira? or DJRD? I have been rebuilding my Joni collection in CD's and have been unable to find Hissing or DJRD or Night Ride Home. I found Hejira at Columbia Music Club of all places! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John T. Folden" To: "Smurf" Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:07 PM Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever > On Apr 14, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Smurf wrote: > > be the truth. But I have anthologies of the music of > > Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Judy > > Garland, Cole Porter and many others, and if their > > legacies have been weakened by anthologies, I haven't > > noticed. > > > I have to say that I look at those mention above as mere singers (other > than Porter) than being known for their artistic works and concept > albums... Don't you think it's a tad different when it's the artist > doing the rehashes rather than the record company, though? I'm used to > Warner Bros, for example, milking all they can from old stock but it's > a strange rarity to have the artist themselves doing it and doing it > repeatedly. How many of these things have we had now starting with Hits > and Misses, including Travelogue, and up to Prairie Girl? If we don't > stop soon there will be more of these than original albums. :-p It > already looks like that in the Joni section of a typical record store > in my area... one or two copies of C&S and/or Blue and a baker's dozen > of these compilations. I'm not sure it's helping... I mean, yeah, at > least she has a product on the shelves with a recent copyright date > there somewhere but I used to see much more variety of product. Where > have the cd's of Hissing, Hejira or DJRD gone? > > John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: beginnings and endings Yikes Robin - let's not give her any ideas!! That being said, the point has been made that one of Joni's specialties is superb sequencing, including significant intro's and outro's. Her albums were all (as she so abstractly states in the liner notes of HOSL) created as unique entities, with a beginning, a body, and an end. This fact is just one of the MYRIAD of reasons why her whoring out of all these songs in a never-ending series of mish-mash compilations is so ghastly and wrong. This subject reminded me of something...about a month ago I heard Emerson, Lake & Palmer's "The Sheriff" on XM Radio and decided then and there that I was going to get a boxset/anthology of ELP as I love their stuff and have NONE on CD. So I go the store and look and Jeeezus there were like 6 different anthologies, and some had some songs I wanted but left some key ones out, and they were on others but THOSE left some stuff I wanted out. And there was a lot of overlap which discouraged me from buying a couple and assembling them. At the end of the day I didn't buy ANY of them. I can only imagine some 20-something getting turned on to Joni and wanting to do the same thing, and flipping through Hits, Misses, T'log, TBOS, Dreamland, Geffen Box, Prairie Dog, and the next two coming out and walking away in frustration similar to what I encountered that day. Probably will wind up getting Blue anyway (hopefully). And is she REALLY quoted in the WSJ article saying this: "You don't look back; you just keep going forward." I don't get it - she's turned Republican on us; saying one thing but doing another. Bob NP: Earth, Wind & Fire, "All About Love" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:43:19 -0400 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever It's always a little funny and pathetic to see a "Greatest Hits" album from the flash in the pan with two top 40 hits from twenty years ago. Who was Eddie Money? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hell" To: "Smurf" ; ; Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever > Bob wrote: > > > In my opinion, the idea of Joni weakening her legacy > > with too many anthologies has been mentioned over and > > over again to the point where it has been assumed to > > be the truth. But I have anthologies of the music of > > Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Judy > > Garland, Cole Porter and many others, and if their > > legacies have been weakened by anthologies, I haven't > > noticed. > > I'm with you on this one. Anthologies are also a great way to be introduced > to an artist you haven't really heard before. "Greatest Hits" albums are > the way I first became interested in James Taylor, CSN, Bonnie Raitt, Joan > Baez, The Beatles, The Bangles, David Bowie, Buffalo Springfield, etc., > etc., etc. - there are too many to list them all. I still buy these types > of albums when I like an artist, but don't know which album to buy - it's a > good starting point. > > Joni may be producing a lot of these, but maybe that's also a good thing. > New fans could start with any one of them, and still get some great music. > And having more than one might send the message that there are so many good > songs, they couldn't be contained on one album. > > Another thing - Joni has at least earned the right to put out a few > compilations, unlike some of the greatest hits albums coming out now from > artists who have only been recording for a couple of years! > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever - --- John wrote: > I have to say that I look at those mention above as > mere singers (other > than Porter) than being known for their artistic > works and concept > albums... I added Cole Porter to the mix as I was writing my post when I realized that most of the people I mentioned -- Ella, Frank, Judy -- were "mere" singers. (Louis was, of course, also a musician.) You do have a point, John, and I appreciate Joni's "concept" approach to her earlier albums, but I can honestly say that my love for, say, the songs "Carey" or "Amelia" is only slightly increased by the fact that I know and love "Blue" and "Hejira." Maybe I should have used The Beatles as an example... I don't think anthologies have particularly hurt them. There was a time 10 or 15 years ago when they were way overplayed, but that's a different thread and a problem Joni has never had, except maybe among her more rabid fans at a Jonifest, but I digress. > Don't you think it's a tad different when > it's the artist > doing the rehashes rather than the record company, > though? I think it's particularly odd that THIS artist is doing it, but she has her reasons which were mentioned in the earlier WSJ interview. One thing she doesn't mention as a reason for putting her energies into anthologies, however, is the deterioration of her voice. Although I like the expressive qualities and the depth of Joni's mature voice, the general consensus is that it has not aged well as an instrument. And in a culture (not to mention the American music biz) in which youth is prized perhaps above everything else, Joni's current voice sounds OLD. To my ears, Ella Fitzgerald sounded like she was about 17 years old right up to the end. Joni's voice now sounds like she's a lot farther along than midway down the midway, and although I like it, I can't see many people under the age of 40 ever EVER buying new material sung by that voice. And one other thought: maybe Joni would rather be remembered for the work she did when her voice was in its "prime," which explains the flood of anthologies from another angle. - --Smurf, glad to have a 3-day weekend coming up! (Monday is Patriot's Day in Massachusetts) __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:58:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC For the Love of Money Subject: Re: NJC For the Love of Money Who knew there were Eddie Money fans out there? Obviously, not me. I liked "Two Tickets" and "Baby Hold On", but don't remember anything else that he did. When I did see him appear as a musical guest on some tv show, he always played one or both of those songs, so to me, he was a two hit wonder. You're right of course about him being more of a "chart buster" than Joni. He was just who I thought of when the subject of minor musical careers having an "all the best of" release. Bad example I guess. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" To: "McMillan Brad" Cc: "JMDL" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:58 PM Subject: NJC For the Love of Money > > Well, for what it's worth he was a much bigger hit-maker than Joni... > > Baby Hold On, Two Tickets To Paradise, Get A Move On, Maybe I'm a Fool, Shakin', Take Me Home Tonight, and many more. Had a couple of Billboard #1's. Again, he played in the pop world and certainly is no contemporary of Joni's. But he definitely was no one-hit wonder and certainly deserves a Greatest Hits collection. My fave album of Money's was his third "Playin' For Keeps" which was ironic because it didn't have the hits like his first 2 or his subsequent records. > Never saw him live but I had friends that did and said he put on a helluva show. > > Bob > > NP: The Beatles, "What Goes On" > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:28:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC 3-day weekend <--Smurf, glad to have a 3-day weekend coming up! (Monday is Patriot's Day in Massachusetts)> You got nuthin' on me homeboy...I got a 4-day weekend coming up, including a trip to DC to see the AMAZING Sherelle in her "Killing Me Softly" show. Can't wait, but I'm resiting the temptation to use multiple exclamation marks to show it. Come on down and hang with me, Lori, Ruth, Sherelle and whoever else wants to join in the fun. On second thought, don't. Right now it's me and all these fabulous BABES - I'm liking the numbers. Bob NP: Green Day, "Give Me Novacaine" Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:56:28 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni in the Wall Street Journal In his review of the Wall Street Journal interview RR said, >Down to You is breezy and jaunty? Same Situation is breezy and jaunty? Trouble Child?> Lama: Gees, you got that right! RR said, >If Dreamland is on HOSL, I'm Tom Hanks. I also take issue that HOSL was all that different from C&S. To me it's like C&S part II.> Lama: Good catch on Dreamland, but I disagree respectfully on HOSL. I think C&S is a great radio-ready album, like "Fly Like An Eagle" from Steve Miller. It's a great album, but do you want to be buried with it? On the other hand, THOSL is a masterwork. A true concept album, where the cover art interlocks with the morality plays, and the players are sublime. C&S is "great" but not sublime; it sounds like LA folk rockers "playing at jazz". THOSL sounds like a thrilling honeymoon between a supreme storyteller and accomplished players who are taking some free rein. C&S is air-tight. THOSL has more space (but not as much as DJRD). It's not C&S part2 in Casa de Lama. The first sequel was "Travelogue". WSJ said, >>Rhino has signed Ms. Mitchell to do three more compilations.>> RR said, >Oy. Already, some of the songs have come out 3 or 4 times.> Lama: And? What's your point? I'd rather have our "problems" than the problems of Nick Drake's fans. I got one of the compilations as a gift, enjoy the heck out of her choices on the "Artist's Choice" disc, find the GEFFEN box indispensable, and will be first in line to spend movie money for the remix of "Paprika Plains" this month. Compilations mean the Press calls for interviews. Compilations mean we see ads on fecking TV for Joni Mitchell collections, okay? :) Cheer up! She may be retired from writing but the ads go on / in silence / in a bell jar / still a song. Joni's retired. Very well then, long may she promote the catalog, paint, and rant. Besides, how many of us have said it took ten years to "get" Hejira? There are tons of boomers still buying music. Lots of people gave up after C&S, so maybe a middle aged audience is "ready" for "Edith and the Kingpin". It was just WAY too real back then, but now, it makes perfect sense. Imagine Joni singing Neil Young's words here: "People pick up on what I'm putting down, now." The sound collage on "Harry's House" may have been too bohemian at one time, but now (30 years after Dark Side of the Moon), how scary is a sound collage? Baby boomers have stopped listening to hard rock radio and have become educated listeners, ready for some quality stories and some tasty jazz influenced ideas. Maybe she'll tire of compilations and give us that planned but scrapped live show from Carnegie Hall. WSJ said, >> She's content to use her paintings on album covers >> and seems wary of mixing art and commerce again. RR said, >Then give the CDs away for free> Lama: Or the paintings. But let's back up a minute. Putting new paintings on compilations is not mixing art and commerce? Huh? Windows are open in Covington today, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:14:05 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate Wow, they used "gal" twice, then threw in "tome" for good measure. They write like Rona Barrett. The WSJ would call it "breezy" but to me it's more like "flatulent". I guess they're not writing for me, eh? Jim L'Hommedieu Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee of the Boston Herald said, >Well! Hats off to Kim Smedvig, the Boston Symphony> >Orchestra spokesgal who married Sweet Baby James> >a few years back.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:38:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate > Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee of the Boston Herald > said I had to check this out because it looks as if the two writers above have taken the plunge and tied the knot in Massachusetts, where same-sex marriage is legal. For the record, they are still listed as Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa, period, so I don't know where the "Laura Raposa Fee" business comes from. They appear in a Page Six-style section of Boston's tabloid newspaper, The Boston Herald, which is just not a good newspaper at all. It's not even a good tabloid, like the NY Post can be at its gossipy best. But right now on the Herald site they do have this great online photo of Joni and James from the 70s that I've never seen: http://thetrack.bostonherald.com/insideTrack.bg - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:52:52 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni in the Wall Street Journal "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > C&S is a great radio-ready album > THOSL is a masterwork. We'll have to disagree on that. I won't slight Hissing, but C&S is every bit as good > how many of us have said it took ten > years to "get" Hejira? One listen, for me (except, Strange Boy, which I didn't like for about 10 years, but I think it was mainly jealousy) > There are tons of boomers still buying music. I'm concerned that they will see Prairieland Vol 16, not recognize the titles, and think it's new. > Imagine Joni singing Neil > Young's words here: "People pick up on what I'm putting down, now." or "Welfare mothers make better lovers" > The > sound collage on "Harry's House" may have been too bohemian at one time, > but now Huh? a couple sentences of dialog do not a sound collage make. This was 6 years after "Revolution #9", I don't think she was rocking anybody's idea of what you can do on a pop album. > Maybe she'll tire of compilations and give > us that planned but scrapped live show from Carnegie Hall. Now we're talkin'! > >> She's content to use her paintings on album covers > >> and seems wary of mixing art and commerce again. > > RR said, > >Then give the CDs away for free> > > Lama: > Or the paintings. But let's back up a minute. Putting new paintings on > compilations is not mixing art and commerce? Huh? That's what I was trying to say. And, if kids are going to discover Joni, better the original canon than the rehash, IMO. Anyhoo, some good points, Jim, thanks. I'm off to see "Trudell, the Movie". RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:48:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: guitar ?? NJC do people think capos are really bogus? or are they legit? usta be legit....just wondering what the current wisdom is... like must one receive "noogies" if one uses a capo? thx Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: guitar ?? NJC - --- Em asks: > do people think capos are really bogus? I think capos look nice. Especially with beretos. Like on the cover of "Hejiro." - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:33:34 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever And this from the lady who complained (sort of) about being asked to sing her fans' favorite songs over and over. (I'm thinking of the interlude on MOA where she compares performing artists to painters.) But more importantly, where IS Hissing? Hejira? or DJRD? I have been rebuilding my Joni collection in CD's and have been unable to find Hissing or DJRD or Night I wouldn't expect those CDs to grace the shelves of the vast majority of music stores. They're just too "old" and weren't multi-platinum to begin with. But they are all available at online retailers, and in fact Hejira in particular sells relatively well much of the time (yes, I actually pay attention to that stuff). Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:33:45 +0000 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Just in awe of the beauty of what a thrill it is to play this music! Mark in Seattle wrote regarding playing Joni from sheet music: >The transcription is pretty close to Joni's playing and I am just in awe of >the beauty of it. What a thrill it is to play this music! Indeed! Jeez, I so relate to this. I've had some time on my hands of late to explore the JMDL guitar website and boy it just blows me away: Sue MacN and Howard et al, I take my hat off to you. How on earth does one find the guitar open tuning of a song played on piano? I'm never too keen to keep using open tunings that often as it invariably involves some stress on my part, ie the darn strings might snap on ye. So I decided to tune all strings a tone or two lower and give it a go thinking, a) the strings are less likely to kertwunk, b) I sing lower these days anyway, and c) I find it easier to play up the fretboard with a capo. Hey Presto! So I'm looking at Cotton Avenue (C93525) and suddenly I realize it ain't that far off the Hejira tuning - hello! It's amazing that the tweeking of a string here and there can make such a difference. Getting back to what Mark E was saying, it's a joy, an exhilaration to play Joni songs as she intended and I've been lushing and drooling and dare I say, nae I daren't, but it's got something to do with feeling satisfied at the very awesome second chord in Hejira - that 333000 one - the most beautiful chord ever. The woman continues to grow on me. Long live Joni. WtS x _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:49:19 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: old joni articles, and jaco I'm going through my boxes of old Joni articles to find those that are not in the JMDL library. I'll start typing them up as time allows. First up, a nice interview from the Philadelphia Inquirer when Turbulent Indigo was released. Found one interesting little item , I think in a college newspaper. Is it generally known that Jaco Pastorius claimed to have "produced" DJRD? I have a little article that quotes him as saying Joni didn't know what she was doing, called him for help, everything was a real mess, he had to produce the whole f*king album. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:51:25 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Re: Rants and raves and barrel bottoms and whatever On Apr 14, 2005, at 9:33 PM, BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > I wouldn't expect those CDs to grace the shelves of the vast majority > of > music stores. They're just too "old" and weren't multi-platinum to > begin with. But > ...but they DID grace the shelves of brick and mortar stores for ages. I re-purchased a lot of my Joni CD's between '96 and '02 due to the fact the artwork and sound had been improved (HDCD, etc...) and I bought them all at local stores. When I stopped in recently and looked at 3 or 4 different stores it was an entirely different, and much sadder, tale. Heck, one store didn't even HAVE any Joni Mitchell. :-0 John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:43:35 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: RE: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate > For the record, they are still listed as Gayle Fee and Laura > Raposa, period, so I don't know where the "Laura Raposa Fee" > business comes from. For the record, this was a cut and paste error on my part. "Laura Raposa" is the correct full name. Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:58:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: old joni articles, and jaco Whoa - there's a scoop, 25 years or so after the fact - assuming it's true. Thanks for the typing work, Deb - looking forward to more new material in the library. Bob NP: Drive-By Truckers, "Ronnie & Neil" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:58:16 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Porous with joni fever Hi loves! I told you when I met you I had limited computer usage time.....but I JUST bought myself an iMac and got connected from home and now I'm ready to roll...and rock...and rock and roll -- whatever! I'm writing from my Joni room. (I've got a blue spare bedroom, with a blue quilted bedspread, I've got Blue inside and outside my head...will you still love me when I get to posting too much?) I think that proper jmdl etiquette says I should just write one post per subject, but I'm just so porous with Joni and new compute fever right now and so excited....can I address a few things at once? Please? Jamie Zoob -- how very noble of you to offer to help Joni! You're a prince among jmdlers. The first one to stand up and come forward...LOL! And Julius, you are going to see Notre Joan! OMG! Wear our hearts on your sleeve, okay sweetness? We are not jealous, because we know you will bring us with you, and that you will give us an eloquent and wonderful report. Vaya con your jmdl friends and your solid love Gail. (I am so happy for you...you are both so lucky and blessed. And don't EVER stop "over-sharing"!) Mags, honey girl, are you okay? Your hearing, I mean. Ashara, mon amie, parlez vous francais maintenant? Paz (did you ever receive that "Paz's Pizza" sign I sent you at Christmas?) and everyone else whose b/day I missed -- bless you! Emiliano, are you having a wonderful time? Smurfadelica, I still have to write you about ETTBarbara. Marianne, thanks for all the ha ha ha's! XO and Joni love to all, Patti, still with so much to say but I'd better get to bed! NP: Happy cheers from Red Sox fans on my TV....they just beat the Evil Empire 8-5. Congrats, Anne! I'll bet JT was there again! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:54:04 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Gmail and the list (njc) Anyone who has not tried Gmail might want to give it a shot. It is really great for "live" list members. Threads are automatically organized - and with more than 2 gigs of space and a slick search function, it makes a great way to archive the list. If anyone wants an account, let me know. I have about 90 billion of them to offer. Les - ------- http://TheMusicStartsHere.com Musician's registry and more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:35:07 -0400 From: vince Subject: Words and Music Tour NJC & Dio I have to get to bed, big work day tomorrow, and just got home from John Mellencamp's Words and Music concert in Grand Rapids -- I only got tickets cuz I won a raffle to buy them through work and I only entered because I had lost the Green Day raffle and Donovan was playing with Mellencamp - you all may not get to see the tour because I saw the schedule and the biggest city on there is St Paul, the rest, like Grand Rapids or Terre Haute, if that is your idea of a big town that is where he is touring (appropriate as much of his music is about small town America, which is what he opened with, I grew up in a small town) I have never been much of a Mellencamp fan but... that was a hell of a concert. First of all he is a hot sexy charismatic little fuck - who knew, I didn't, and his guitar player (I think named Andrew Jones) is the hardest working guitarist I have ever seen and also good looking as hell and plays hard in a way that reminded me of George Harrison in that he was rocking out in that never let them see you sweat manner, and Mellencamp certainly makes a case that he has had an extraordinary number of great songs and again who knew, I hadn't paid attention but I was surprised at the number of songs I actually knew and how they stood up - and it was no greatest hits fest, they were all reworked, surprising to me with zydeco for much of the evening, very compelling arrangements and one of the great things about music is watching the audience, the years disappear and the crowd (a lot of folks my age on down) were dancing up a storm and it was such a thrill seeing a lot of the couples boogying together to what you could tell were great memories of dancing to Mellencamp's stuff from the time it came out - and Mellencamp also is political in the way that he was with Springsteen, etc last fall on the oust Bush tours, and the set list certainly culminated in his political tunes (Pink Houses "ain't that America" and Crumbling Down "and the walls came tumbling down"), the midwest heartland prairie populism that has always informed his music - well the whole thing just rocked and I vastly enjoyed myself and my friends who I took and everyone there was just having a hell of a time... and Donovan came on about a third of the way through and all of his numbers have been rearranged too, it was no nostalgia thing, it is like Joni, she never does a song twice the same way concert to concert, they were always rearranged with whatever new things have informed her music and thus it was for Donovan, the guy was rocking with some funky beats and I am sitting there thinking how great to hear Donovan after all these years and all the songs he has done and what were the odds that he would sing a lesser hit like Atlantis and all my life I have wanted to hear Donovan sing Atlantis live and I was thinking there is no way and then he says 'I want you to sing a song with me..." and I was on my feet roaring and it was about an ultimate music moment as I could have, like hearing Joni sing Woodstock, and I was in heaven for the length of that, singing along, "way down, below the ocean, there, I wanna be..." like being in church for a revival. Wow. and on the way home I stopped at the Meijers to pick up the Mellencamp album and there was a Ronnie James Dio anthology. I don't know how many people here know Dio's music but I have never seen the anthology in a store and there it was - last Saturday the 9th was the 20th anniversary of when I was smacked by a car in my small town that I used to live in, my leg was shattered, and it was the birthday of a parishioner of mine named Eric, his 20th, and the most profound ministry of my life was in helping Eric after he was in a car wreck that killed two people and left him smashed and I had worked with him on getting past the suicidal thoughts, through the physical rehab, through the people who blamed for that accident and Eric didn't communicate in words well, sort of a western Michigan small town male thing, but he communicated through music, he's say, you have to this, and you have to hear this, and it was heavy metal and I realized that he was playing each song for a reason, the lyrics were what I needed to hear for they were saying what he could not and once I grasped that I was able to be a minister to him - ministry through heavy metal but it was what it was and part of that, the major part, was Ronnie James Dio (he succeeded Ozzie in Black Sabbath and then went on his own) and I took Eric to a Dio concert, there was a lot of imagery religious in Dio that opened up huge door of understanding for what Eric could not say in his own words, he shared it with me in music... ministry at a Dio concert - only me - and I told Eric to never come to church, that I did not want him to come to church, I was not there for him because I wanted something out of him, i.e. church attendance, but that I was here simply God loved him and for nothing else and so I forbade him to come to church when everyone said to Eric that he should go because Pastor was doing so much for him, and said no, don't come, I don't want you there. So here are the dates 20 years ago right now, 1985: Easter, April 7th - Eric shows up for church and it meant the world to me because he was coming solely because he wanted to, not because he felt he had to for me, and it meant that he was ready and open to God's loving him just as he was and he brought his girlfriend and I will never forget where he kneeled at the altar rail and took communion and his smile at me and knowing that things with him and God were working April 9, his 20th birthday, my leg is shattered after hit by the car April 10, he shows up at the hospital to tell me that he will take care of me as I took care of him April 11th, my surgery to begin the process of putting that shattered leg back together April 12, he sent me, had a florist deliver, some roses in a Pepsi Light bottle - Eric was not the type of kid to send roses and he was as ruggedly macho straight as all hell, it was an astounding gesture of his thinking of me in appreciation for what I had meant to him as his pastor and the Pepsi Light bottle, well, every time we went to court or physical therapy or the lawyer, or counseling (I drove, he couldn't) I always got a bottle of Pepsi Light - when I saw the bottle with the roses down the hall, I laughed, first time I laughed since the accident -- April 12, Eric left the florist and went to a buddy's house and then headed home on his three wheeler (wearing my helmet and goggles, yeah I rode three wheelers too) and some cops knowing his legal trouble chased him to hassle him and he went over a very dangerous bridge and went off the bridge and was killed, broken neck. He and I had drive n over that bridge a week before and talked about how dangerous it was. I am basically just out of surgery and the phone rungs, I pick it up, his mother asks for my wife, and as I hand the phone to my wife it took me no time at all to realize what had happened, and not only that he was dead, but even where and how - Eric's mom wanted to talk to my wife so they could break it to me given my medical state but I knew, I so knew -- the last Sunday of his life he came to church and received communion because he was in a good place with God after all he had been through, it was the best ministry of my life reaching that kid working with the music and banning him from church so he could grasp God's love as being grace, not as quid pro quo - April 16th, this Saturday, the 20th anniversary of his funeral, I wouldn't let anyone else do the funeral, I was his pastor, the Gospel needed to be proclaimed from someone whose heart was as shattered and broken as his family's and friend's, and I did the funeral against doctor's advice, he said it would fuck my leg recovery, it was too soon, the physical movement of the freshly shattered leg and the emotional minefields of pain we would enter and I said, my church member, my funeral they had to vest me lying down on the hospital bed and strapped me in a wheel chair and carted me on hoist into this ambu-cab and it was the best funeral sermon I ever preached from that wheel chair, full of the Gospel and quotes from Ronnie James Dio - no longer Eric are you are the last in line, you are at the front of the line, they cannot kill you any more - and as I prepared to do the Nunc Dimmits (Lord, now you let your servant go in peace...) from the wheelchair I gave Eric in his casket the Dio "We rock" hand sign, the sign of the cross, and had the casket closed, and we continued with the committal. And in this anniversary week - and a lot of bad things spiraled out my shattered leg from the car striking me, and Eric's death - as I recall the good and the bad, the pain, the joy, the meaning, the communication through heavy metal, the role of Dio as lyricist to convey what Eric couldn't, there I saw the Dio anthology in cd, I never saw it before and I of course have it now. And you know it was a year before I could walk again. And Eric was the best ministry I ever did and he ended up dead, he was taken from me, my one great success at reaching someone in deepest gloom - at least I was able to assist his moving into the light, he was at a far better when he died than if he had died in the prior accident - I have been going through these anniversaries since the 7th, being the 20 years and all, and now I have the music for Saturday the 16th which I can play when I remember his funeral. I do go on and on. I live alone and no one wants to hear this. I know I am not worth much to this list and impose this crap on you all but hopefully no one has read it, you dumped it when you saw it was from me, but I needed to wrote this tonight. Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #161 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)