From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #160 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 14 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 160 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate ["Les Irvin" ] Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate [Em ] Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate [Catherine McKay ] Re: dang... Johnnie Johnson gone.. [Jamie Zubairi ] beginnings and endings ["robin mortlock" ] RE: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues ["Azeem" ] Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? [Smurf ] Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: beginnings and endings [Rusty10113@aol.com] Joni article in 4/13/05 Wall Street Journal ["Tortorici, Frank" Subject: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate by Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee C Boston Herald April 14, 2005 Aged pop princess Joni Mitchell says Vineyard troubadour James Taylor was the best lover she ever had. So good, in fact, that Joni's now celibate! "She had quite a succession of men back in the day," said former Channel 4 producer Nancy Alspaugh, who includes Joni in her new book, "Fearless Women, Mid-Life Portraits." "In the '70s, she was with Graham Nash, David Crosby and James Taylor but she said James Taylor was the best. Just the best." Well! Hats off to Kim Smedvig, the Boston Symphony Orchestra spokesgal who married Sweet Baby James a few years back. Mitchell, now 62, chain smokes and doesn't sing anymore, Alspaugh reports. The "Big Yellow Taxi" gal paints full-time and has also given up on sex. "She's an amazing woman," Alspaugh said. "She's still beautiful. But she wrote 'Both Sides Now' when she was in her 20s. She looked at love from both sides even back then and says she's done with that. She said she loves this age because of the sense of freedom. She said 'The only person I have to answer to is me."' Mitchell is one of 49 women profiled in Alspaugh's book, which she co-wrote with Marilyn Kentz, whom you may remember from her talk show, which Alspaugh produced. Or "The Mommies," the short-lived NBC sitcom she did with her real-life neighbor, Caryl Kristensen. Alspaugh, who produced "Evening Magazine" for WBZ and was formerly married to "Today" show stud Matt Lauer, was in town yesterday to promote the new tome. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:39:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Playing Blue I bet! Way cool, Mark. I'm not a musician but I do remember getting on stage and singing Joni's songs for the first time and I had that same feeling. I don't think I even knew that you played, and Blue is certainly an emotional & powerful melody. Keep up the practicing and I hope to hear you someday. Bob NP: Eels, "Friendly Ghost" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:26:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate given up on sex??? I don't get it. Even if her partner is just a Hitachi Magic Wand - that's still sex. Just cuz she's not doing it with another person doesn't mean there is no sex. If she's not having any sex AT ALL, then I'd say something is wrong with Joni and we need to rescue her. :( Em - --- Les Irvin wrote: > by Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee > C Boston Herald April 14, 2005 > > Aged pop princess Joni Mitchell says Vineyard troubadour James Taylor > was > the best lover she ever had. So good, in fact, that Joni's now > celibate! > > "She had quite a succession of men back in the day," said former > Channel 4 > producer Nancy Alspaugh, who includes Joni in her new book, "Fearless > Women, > Mid-Life Portraits." > > "In the '70s, she was with Graham Nash, David Crosby and James Taylor > but > she said James Taylor was the best. Just the best." > > Well! Hats off to Kim Smedvig, the Boston Symphony Orchestra > spokesgal who > married Sweet Baby James a few years back. > > Mitchell, now 62, chain smokes and doesn't sing anymore, Alspaugh > reports. > The "Big Yellow Taxi" gal paints full-time and has also given up on > sex. > > "She's an amazing woman," Alspaugh said. "She's still beautiful. But > she > wrote 'Both Sides Now' when she was in her 20s. She looked at love > from both > sides even back then and says she's done with that. She said she > loves this > age because of the sense of freedom. She said 'The only person I have > to > answer to is me."' > > Mitchell is one of 49 women profiled in Alspaugh's book, which she > co-wrote > with Marilyn Kentz, whom you may remember from her talk show, which > Alspaugh > produced. Or "The Mommies," the short-lived NBC sitcom she did with > her > real-life neighbor, Caryl Kristensen. > > Alspaugh, who produced "Evening Magazine" for WBZ and was formerly > married > to "Today" show stud Matt Lauer, was in town yesterday to promote the > new > tome. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:30:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Playing Blue Mark, I'm so happy for you. I know that feeling very well. It's almost like a sacrament, isn't it? in your blood, like holy wine. I also took piano lessons when I was a kid and I wasn't terrible at it, but it never felt as whole, organic, symbiotic, whatever you want to call it, as playing the guitar. But lately, I've been thinking and feeling piano and thought I would give it a try again. Reading your post makes me so glad I bought that keyboard a few years back! It is a lot of work for most of us, but so worth it. - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > Today I received a used, soiled, dog-eared copy of > the 'Joni Mitchell > Complete Songbook Volume 2' that I bought from Ebay. > I just fumbled, > stumbled, banged and rumbled my way through the song > 'Blue' on my > keyboard for the first time. It took forever for me > to get all the > way through it but I played it. The transcription > is pretty close to > Joni's playing and I am just in awe of the beauty of > it. What a > thrill it is to play this music! Up until now I > have had a very slim > repertoire of very easy versions of such megahits as > 'Scarborough > Fair', 'Greensleeves', 'Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring', > 'Die Lorelei', > 'Fur Elise' and 'Moonlight Sonata'. On a good day I > can get through > the first four of these without too many wrong notes > if I play them > over and over a half dozen or so times. Now I > really have something > to aspire to! > > Mark E. in Seattle > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:31:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate - --- Les Irvin wrote: > by Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee > C Boston Herald April 14, 2005 > > Aged pop princess Joni Mitchell says Vineyard > troubadour James Taylor was > the best lover she ever had. So good, in fact, that > Joni's now celibate! > Ouch. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:18:51 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate I'm volunteering my services! Jamie Zoob - --- Em wrote: > given up on sex??? I don't get it. > Even if her partner is just a Hitachi Magic Wand - > that's still sex. > Just cuz she's not doing it with another person > doesn't mean there is > no sex. > If she's not having any sex AT ALL, then I'd say > something is wrong > with Joni and we need to rescue her. > :( > Em Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:32:20 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate Didn't someone tell her it's the chain-smoking not the sex that kills? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Em Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:26 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: 'Baby James' was so Sweet, Joni's now celibate given up on sex??? I don't get it. Even if her partner is just a Hitachi Magic Wand - that's still sex. Just cuz she's not doing it with another person doesn't mean there is no sex. If she's not having any sex AT ALL, then I'd say something is wrong with Joni and we need to rescue her. :( Em - --- Les Irvin wrote: > by Gayle Fee and Laura Raposa Fee > C Boston Herald April 14, 2005 > > Aged pop princess Joni Mitchell says Vineyard troubadour James Taylor > was > the best lover she ever had. So good, in fact, that Joni's now > celibate! > > "She had quite a succession of men back in the day," said former > Channel 4 > producer Nancy Alspaugh, who includes Joni in her new book, "Fearless > Women, > Mid-Life Portraits." > > "In the '70s, she was with Graham Nash, David Crosby and James Taylor > but > she said James Taylor was the best. Just the best." > > Well! Hats off to Kim Smedvig, the Boston Symphony Orchestra > spokesgal who > married Sweet Baby James a few years back. > > Mitchell, now 62, chain smokes and doesn't sing anymore, Alspaugh > reports. > The "Big Yellow Taxi" gal paints full-time and has also given up on > sex. > > "She's an amazing woman," Alspaugh said. "She's still beautiful. But > she > wrote 'Both Sides Now' when she was in her 20s. She looked at love > from both > sides even back then and says she's done with that. She said she > loves this > age because of the sense of freedom. She said 'The only person I have > to > answer to is me."' > > Mitchell is one of 49 women profiled in Alspaugh's book, which she > co-wrote > with Marilyn Kentz, whom you may remember from her talk show, which > Alspaugh > produced. Or "The Mommies," the short-lived NBC sitcom she did with > her > real-life neighbor, Caryl Kristensen. > > Alspaugh, who produced "Evening Magazine" for WBZ and was formerly > married > to "Today" show stud Matt Lauer, was in town yesterday to promote the > new > tome. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:56:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: dang... Johnnie Johnson gone.. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=579&e=7&u=/nm/20050414/en_nm/people_johnson_dc remember we were just talking about him a few weeks ago? 20th century gets a little more "over" every passing day. sheesh.... great piano player. The real deal. Em ps what Joni song is it where he's mentioned? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:24:41 +0100 (BST) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: dang... Johnnie Johnson gone.. Isn't it Rickie Lee Jones' 'Traces Of The Western Slopes'? or something similar? I don't know Jonnie Johnson... must look him up. What sort of style did he play? Jazz? - --- Em wrote: > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=579&e=7&u=/nm/20050414/en_nm/people_johnson_dc > > remember we were just talking about him a few weeks > ago? > 20th century gets a little more "over" every passing > day. > sheesh.... great piano player. The real deal. > Em > ps what Joni song is it where he's mentioned? > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:34:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: dang... Johnnie Johnson gone.. Hi Jamie I would say its that mysterious and delicious area where R&B meets country and or gospel and turns into something approaching rock and roll. Was Chuck Berry's piano player. Sorta like some of Ray Charles' pre-60's stuff. Oh! so it wasn't in a Joni song, huh? Maybe this subject needs an NJC then?? not yet.. but sooooooooooon. :) Em - --- Jamie Zubairi wrote: > Isn't it Rickie Lee Jones' 'Traces Of The Western > Slopes'? or something similar? > > I don't know Jonnie Johnson... must look him up. What > sort of style did he play? Jazz? > > --- Em wrote: > > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=579&e=7&u=/nm/20050414/en_nm/people_johnson_dc > > > > remember we were just talking about him a few weeks > > ago? > > 20th century gets a little more "over" every passing > > day. > > sheesh.... great piano player. The real deal. > > Em > > ps what Joni song is it where he's mentioned? > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:57:27 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: beginnings and endings Hi all In light of all this joni-reworking malarcky what about this for an album idea - Beginnings and Endings (working title) a compilation of, well, the beginning and end songs on all her albums - it would look a bit like this (doing this from memory so a bit sketchy): Beginnings Endings I Had A King Cactus Tree Tin Angel Both Sides Now Morning Morgantown Circle Game "Love came to my door.." That jazz one about being mad "I am on a lonely road.." The Last time i Saw Richard Coyote Refuge of the Roads Oveture/"No place special.." Silky Veils of Ardour In France.... Shadows and Light God Must be A Boogie Man Goodbye Porki Pie Hat Man ? Good Friends Lucky GIrl Secret Place A Bird That Whistles Chinese Cafe Love Night Ride Home Two Grey Rooms (beautiful) Sunny Sunday Jobs Sad Song Harlem in Havana Tiger Bones Otis and Marlene Circle Game You get the picture - 2 discs - i think would make great listening..... Spideog "ficiton of the image and the image maker.." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Upgrade to Messenger 7.0 - Messenger 7.0 more fun features, still totally FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:34:15 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues Please read IMHO into all of my comments, dear reader... Mark wrote: << I disagree. I do think there is a nagging insecurity that what she considers to be her best work will be forgotten. She's trying to call attention to it and hopefully keep it from disappearing into obscurity which is largely where her albums of the last 20 years have been relegated to. >> Mark, do you seriously believe that her material in the last 20 years is her best? If you do, then fair enough, it's your opinion, which I don't share. I know I'm not the first person to make this point, but if she really wanted to make sure her best work is properly preserved and promoted (or indeed 'sold') to today's callow youth, what about re-releasing, for example, Hissing, with its exquisite demos, which underline even more than the finished product her genius with vocal arrangements and harmonies. << Can you think of another singer/songwriter who wrote a lyric like this in one of their songs? And then I looked at myself here Chicken scratching for my immortality I'm not sure that there are many who are that concerned with being classed among the 'immortals'. Call it ego, call it what you will, this is important to Joni. And in my opinion, I don't think any current artists really do measure up to her. >> 'Current' being very much the operative word. Without wishing to sound facetious, Hejira was nearly 30 years ago! I agree that nobody has equalled it, but there are scores of artists who have equalled, and bettered by MILES, Joni's later output. To take an example dear to my heart, Jane Siberry's 'When I Was A Boy' is such a stunning piece of work that to compare it to Night Ride Home is laughable. Joni is doing more harm to her legacy than good with these incessant compilations. I'd add that I accept there is nothing wrong with compiling her late work, sifting the wheat from the chaff - but how many bloody times??? Like Bob, I find Joni's head-in-the-sand, la-la-la-I'm-not-listening attitude to nearly all other contemporary music ludicrous and thoroughly disrespectful - and self-defeating. << But I also think she is entitled to a certain amount of that considering what she has accomplished and how a large chunk of her output has been dismissed as inferior, even by her most ardent admirers. >> That's because, put very brutally, it IS inferior. << She ain't perfect, but I still love her and I refuse to believe that she's a money-grubber. >> I agree with you here Mark. My gut feeling is that it's not about the money. Azeem in London - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:26:27 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? >From today's San Francisco Chronicle: If you're driving north of San Rafael on Route 101, keep your eyes on the road. But you might ask the passenger next to you to have a look at a large window in the Lights of Rafael store, where artist George Sumner and Donnalei Sumner, his wife, have presided over his painting of a 26-by-10-foot underwater mural. This is to call attention to endangered oceans, and it's the first in a series in tribute to World Environment Day, being marked the first week of June. P.S. Meanwhile, Earth Day, April 22, is being celebrated in San Francisco by the usually private Joni Mitchell, who's giving a rare talk at the Commonwealth Club about her love for the environment. Andrew Lawton, chairman of the club's Environment and National Resources Committee, says that several local singers had turned him down for the gig, which doesn't pay anything. He was thrilled when Mitchell's management said she'd agreed to be here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? Les Irvin wrote: >From today's San Francisco Chronicle: (SNIP) P.S. Meanwhile, Earth Day, April 22, is being celebrated in San Francisco by the usually private Joni Mitchell, who's giving a rare talk at the Commonwealth Club about her love for the environment. Yay! Joni's going to San Fran for Walt's birthday! - --Smurf - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? Oh wow. Here are more details from commonwealthclub.org for you lucky people who live in the area. Maybe they'll broadcast it eventually. An innovative and original songwriter, singer, musician, poet and painter, Mitchell is regarded as one of the great formative influences on contemporary popular music. A love of nature has been a recurring theme in Mitchell's music, most notably in her hit proto-environmental song, "Big Yellow Taxi," which was released in the spring of 1970 while the first Earth Day protests were being held across the United States. In 2004 she released "The Beginning of Survival" - a collection of her "social commentary" music from the 1980s and 90s that features strong environmental themes. Join us for Earth Day with Mitchell as she discusses these recordings and shares her unique perspectives on art, music, philosophy, politics, commerce and the environment. MEMBERS ONLY (member + one guest)--> 6:30 p.m., Check-in | 7:00 p.m., Program | Club Office, 595 Market St, 2nd floor, San Francisco | $15 for Members, $30 for Non-members, $75 for Premium Seating (price includes post-program reception with Mitchell) | Directions to the Club. Premium seating is SOLD OUT. Les Irvin wrote: >From today's San Francisco Chronicle: If you're driving north of San Rafael on Route 101, keep your eyes on the road. But you might ask the passenger next to you to have a look at a large window in the Lights of Rafael store, where artist George Sumner and Donnalei Sumner, his wife, have presided over his painting of a 26-by-10-foot underwater mural. This is to call attention to endangered oceans, and it's the first in a series in tribute to World Environment Day, being marked the first week of June. P.S. Meanwhile, Earth Day, April 22, is being celebrated in San Francisco by the usually private Joni Mitchell, who's giving a rare talk at the Commonwealth Club about her love for the environment. Andrew Lawton, chairman of the club's Environment and National Resources Committee, says that several local singers had turned him down for the gig, which doesn't pay anything. He was thrilled when Mitchell's management said she'd agreed to be here. Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:04:01 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues Azeem wrote: > Please read IMHO into all of my comments, dear reader... > > Mark, do you seriously believe that her material in the last 20 > years > is her best? If you do, then fair enough, it's your opinion, which > I > don't share. I respect your opinion, Azeem. But IMHO I do think there are at least individual songs on the records from the last 20 years that are some of Joni's best work. I also think that those records have not had as much time as her work in the 70s to sink in. I know, 20 years is a long time but Hejira has been around for nearly 30. And there were a lot of people that didn't like Joni's foray into jazz or even pop back when Court and Spark and HOSL were released. The 80s records really got dismissed as inferior and I don't think that's fair especially after hearing the remastered DED from the Geffen box set. My opinion is that it really is a brilliant album. She fared somewhat better with her fan base in the 90s mostly because NRH and TI went to a more stripped down guitar-based sound that reminded people of their favorite pre-80s work. Then she started doing the orchestral stuff and ruffled feathers again. I really believe that her music needs time for people to put it into perspective. I think some people (and I'm not referring to you, Azeem) probably listened to some of the later stuff once or twice, couldn't fit it into their picture of what they think Joni is or should be about and put it away, not to be listened to again. Maybe if they hear pieces of it in a different context, something might click and they'll give it another chance. I know I'm not the first person to make this point, but > if she really wanted to make sure her best work is properly > preserved > and promoted (or indeed 'sold') to today's callow youth, what about > re-releasing, for example, Hissing, with its exquisite demos, which > underline even more than the finished product her genius with vocal > arrangements and harmonies. Maybe that strategy would please us, her die-hard fans but why would a re-packaging of a 30 year old recording that's been in circulation since its release spark any interest with people that don't already own and love HOSL? I suppose the advertising and press exposure might help. But a 'new' product might be a better to way to grab consumer attention. Again, with the idea of rescuing the work from obscurity. And there is always the hope that somebody who picks up a compilation might go back and explore the originals. But I would love to see Joni release some rarities. I don't know why that hasn't happened. Maybe the labels have been unwilling to spend the money to do it. Maybe it's Joni that is the roadblock. Who knows? > > << Can you think of another singer/songwriter who wrote a lyric like > this > in one of their songs? > > And then I looked at myself here > Chicken scratching for my immortality > > I'm not sure that there are many who are that concerned with being > classed among the 'immortals'. Call it ego, call it what you will, > this is important to Joni. And in my opinion, I don't think any > current artists really do measure up to her. >> > > 'Current' being very much the operative word. Without wishing to > sound facetious, Hejira was nearly 30 years ago! Ok, so I made bad choices here. I could just as easily have said 'Sire of Sorrow' or 'Passion Play' or 'Love Puts on a New Face'. *IMO* I think those songs stand up alongside anything she's written and come towards the top of her best. And my quoting of the lyric from 'Hejira' was more to make the point that Joni really has a need to feel that she has made a lasting contribution to music. I heard a piece on NPR recently about a recording of a selection of classical music that the producers have edited and enhanced to appeal to contemporary audiences. One of the considerations was shorter attention spans. Joni is living in a time when popular culture is geared toward those short attention spans and anything from a year ago is outmoded and already disposed of. I don't blame her for having some fear that at least part of her less accesible work will disappear. I agree that nobody > has equalled it, but there are scores of artists who have equalled, > and bettered by MILES, Joni's later output. To take an example dear > to my heart, Jane Siberry's 'When I Was A Boy' is such a stunning > piece of work that to compare it to Night Ride Home is laughable. I guess it's what you're looking for or what you consider to be great. I'm not overly familiar with 'When I Was A Boy' as I just bought it recently. I did listen to it on headphones a while ago and was very impressed by it. Some of it is amazing, I will grant you that. I have a lot of respect for Jane. She has written some beautiful songs and I think in some ways she's more courageous than Joni. (Yes I really did write that!) But I don't know that she's as consistent. I also think that Rickie Lee Jones has gone further out on a few limbs in her day than Joni ever has. I think for all of Joni's originality and innovativeness, she has usually stayed within a pretty structured format. Although her lyrics can be ambiguous at times, she doesn't stray too far into the realm of abstract or impressionistic type poetry. There are other artists that have pushed the envelope further. But I don't think any of them have produced the same consistent quality of results. I think 'When I Was a Boy' and 'Night Ride Home' are two different animals. I happen to prefer 'NRH' as this point in time. But I intend to get more familiar with 'WIWAB' so that may change. (But don't count on it.) > I agree with you here Mark. My gut feeling is that it's not about > the > money. Well at least we agree on that. Thanks for responding Azeem. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:10:12 +0100 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Re: beginnings and endings Mmm, not a bad idea, I was going to suggest that in the light of all the moaning and hand-wringing about these 'constant' comp releases, we discuss what 15 songs would appear on our ultimate and final Joni comp. It would be best if we could theme and/or justify our selections and bear in mind what's gone before as we wouldn't want to repeat ourselves would we? Having said that, I haven't given it any further thought myself so I don't have a list to start us off - but I will have! Happy compiling, Ric - ----- Original Message ----- From: "robin mortlock" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: beginnings and endings > Hi all > > In light of all this joni-reworking malarcky what about this for an album > idea - > > Beginnings and Endings (working title) a compilation of, well, the > beginning and end songs on all her albums - it would look a bit like this > (doing this from memory so a bit sketchy): > > Beginnings Endings > > I Had A King Cactus Tree > > Tin Angel Both Sides Now > > Morning Morgantown Circle Game > > "Love came to my door.." That jazz one about being mad > > "I am on a lonely road.." The Last time i Saw Richard > > Coyote Refuge of the Roads > > Oveture/"No place special.." Silky Veils of Ardour > > In France.... Shadows and Light > > God Must be A Boogie Man Goodbye Porki Pie Hat Man ? > > Good Friends Lucky GIrl > > Secret Place A Bird That Whistles > > Chinese Cafe Love > > Night Ride Home Two Grey Rooms (beautiful) > > Sunny Sunday Jobs Sad Song > > Harlem in Havana Tiger Bones > > Otis and Marlene Circle Game > > > > You get the picture - 2 discs - i think would make great listening..... > > Spideog > > "ficiton of the image and the image maker.." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Upgrade to Messenger 7.0 - Messenger 7.0 more fun features, still totally > FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:24:00 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: beginnings and endings That's easy-- just checked my iPod and here's my playlist called 'Joni Faves' - - if I was stranded on a desert island, this would help me survive quite happily... Peoples Parties Two Grey Rooms Impossible Dreamer For the Roses The Priest Amelia Marcie Cactus Tree (MOA version) Trouble Child Turbulent Indigo Man from Mars For Free Cool Water (just dicovered this, love it!) Borderline Happy compiling! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:00:15 -0400 From: "Tortorici, Frank" Subject: Joni article in 4/13/05 Wall Street Journal MUSIC=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 The Dropout Drops Back In By MARTIN JOHNSON=20 April 13, 2005; Page D14 Like many musicians, Joni Mitchell hated listening to her older recordings. "Oh no, no, no, no, it would make my skin crawl," she said. "I know where the bodies are buried: where I rhymed jewels and schools or where I indulged some musical eccentricity that seemed like a good idea at the time." Thus, it's somewhat surprising that Ms. Mitchell, who retired from active performing and recording a few years ago, is devoting all of her musical endeavors to curating her own career retrospective, creating a series of anthologies based around different themes in her work. In doing so, she's bringing new light to several important and often neglected phases of her career. Although many rumors circulated about health reasons causing Ms. Mitchell's retirement, the 61-year-old singer says it was her own exasperation with the music industry that led her to cease writing and performing new music. "This is a dog race industry and there's pressure to create hits, fast dogs; everything else is regarded as failure," she said. "I wasn't a fast dog, nor did I want to be." She added, "my career wasn't one of finding a formula and sticking to it. Instead, it was one of exploration." Ms. Mitchell's first six recordings constitute a body of work that is a key part of the rock canon, but she strove toward new musical horizons and her audience failed to follow. Her early work features deceptively simple melodies and introspective lyrics of searing intimacy sung in a pristine mezzo-soprano. Her 1971 recording, "Blue" (Warner Bros), set new standards for detail in confessional songwriting as she chronicled love lost, the pain of putting a child up for adoption and the rising sense that her yearnings will never be fulfilled. While "Blue" maintained a spare, melancholy tone, Ms. Mitchell's 1974 release, "Court & Spark" (Asylum), had a breezy and jaunty tone while it examined the role of candor in relationships. Most contemporary singer/songwriters are indebted to her, but many are merely content to announce their feelings. Ms. Mitchell's work constantly probed the root sources of those feelings and evaluated them against the bigger picture of her emotional desires. However, with the release in 1975 of "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" (Asylum), she moved on from a jazzy, folk-rock style, integrating elements of African and contemporary classical music into her sound and taking her explorations of jazz to new, often ponderous lengths. This darker, urbane music was matched by Ms. Mitchell's lyrics, which turned a withering gaze at privileged life in New York and Los Angeles in songs like "Shades of Scarlett Conquering" and "Dreamland." However, she was tender and empathetic in depicting the final months of jazz great Charles Mingus on her 1980 release "Mingus" (Asylum). "Summer Lawns" and other '70s releases like "Hejira" (Asylum) that were initially released to mixed reviews ultimately found a receptive crowd among critics and musicians; in 1999, Central Park Summerstage devoted its Canada Day concert to performances of Ms. Mitchell's music from the mid- and late '70s. However, the stellar music she created on subsequent releases like "Dog Eat Dog" (Geffen, 1985) and "Taming the Tiger" (Reprise, 1998) was largely ignored. Two years ago, Rhino Records, the imprint that specializes in archival reissues, contacted Ms. Mitchell's management about a "best of" release. When she reviewed the label's choices, the singer was dismayed. "There's no way you can call this the best of," she told officials at Rhino. "You can call it the boss's choices. These songs are catchy and popular but in no way were these my best work." Following a little back-and-forth, both sides settled on the song list for "Dreamland" (Rhino), a fine primer that ranges from early hits like "Carey" and "Help Me" to her late '90s orchestral recordings of "Both Sides Now" and "For the Roses." Ms. Mitchell and the folks at Rhino enjoyed the process, so they delved specifically into her '80s and '90s works next, on a project called "The Beginning of Survival." The 16-song program, which was released on the Geffen imprint and doesn't overlap with "Dreamland," features attacks on consumerism in "The Windfall" and "Everything for Nothing," a satire of televangelism in "Tax Free," an ode to environmentalism in "Cool Water," and "The Beat of Black Wings," a sympathetic song for soldiers returning from warfare. "It was before the election and the liberals didn't seem to have much backbone, so I decided to review my own political stance, which is neither liberal nor conservative but somewhere in between the two parties." That may surprise people who see Ms. Mitchell as a voice of the Woodstock generation antiwar movement, but she has always blazed her own independent political path. For instance, during the Vietnam War she regularly performed for soldiers in Charleston, S.C., and at Fort Bragg. "I saw them after they came back from the war, often broken," she said. "I didn't think it was right that they met with the scorn of their generation." Rhino has signed Ms. Mitchell to do three more compilations. The first one, "Songs of a Prairie Girl," will be released in April; it is a collection of songs that reflect on her upbringing in Saskatchewan, which is celebrating its centennial this year. While combing her catalog for that collection, she was contacted by the folks at the Starbucks-owned imprint, Hear Music, about doing a collection of music that influenced her for their Artist's Choice series (the company has also released a companion anthology, where fellow heavyweights like Prince and Bob Dylan present their favorite tracks by Ms. Mitchell). The concept intrigued her. "If somebody asked me what are my influences, I couldn't really say; I never stopped to think about it," she said. "You don't look back; you just keep going forward." For the Hear Music project, Ms. Mitchell made a list of the works that had "stopped me in my tracks," creating a diverse program that includes Debussy's "Claire De Lune" performed by Phillipe Entremont, Steely Dan's "Third World Man," Billie Holiday's "Solitude," Bob Dylan's "Sweetheart Like You" and Marvin Gaye's "Trouble Man." What surprised her most was the sway that Duke Ellington's elegant and diverse music had on her. She said that she was impressed by the swaggering humor that his music maintained. Only one of the 18 tracks on the disc, The New Radicals' "You Get What You Give," was recorded in the past 10 years. This lack of representation reflects Ms. Mitchell's discontent with the current state of popular music. "It's not about talent anymore, it's about a look, and a willingness to cooperate." One key exception to her contempt is "Got Till It's Gone," a collaboration between Janet Jackson and the progressive rapper Q-Tip. The song is built around an audio snippet of the chorus to Ms. Mitchell's 1973 hit, "Big Yellow Taxi." She not only approved the usage but appears via a televised image in the video. "It was brilliant, full of humanity and dignity, instead of whores and criminals," she said. "It was needed. I was very pleased to be part of it." Although she is frequently cited as the inspiration for the current generation of singer/songwriters, including Sarah McLachlan, Shawn Colvin and Natalie Merchant, she's disdainful of their work. She cites a failure on their part to take more musical risks, feeling that they listened to her early recordings and failed to capture the full breadth of her recording career. Ms. Mitchell lives in Southern California, and devotes most of her time now to painting. "That concerted push -- living to paint, like a crazy artist -- really solidified my style," she said. However, don't expect any gallery shows just yet; for now, she's content to use her paintings on album covers and seems wary of mixing art and commerce again. Through emerging technologies, Ms. Mitchell does see one glimmer of hope for the future of music. "All the intelligent kids today are getting iPods," she said. "They are bypassing the radio and going back to the older music." Mr. Johnson lives in New York and writes about popular music for the Journal. =20 =20 Frank Tortorici Associate Director, Communications/Media Relations The Conference Board (212) 339-0231 =20 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image002.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image003.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image004.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image005.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image006.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image007.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image008.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image009.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:09:01 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues << I respect your opinion, Azeem. But IMHO I do think there are at least individual songs on the records from the last 20 years that are some of Joni's best work. I also think that those records have not had as much time as her work in the 70s to sink in. I know, 20 years is a long time but Hejira has been around for nearly 30. And there were a lot of people that didn't like Joni's foray into jazz or even pop back when Court and Spark and HOSL were released. >> Well, that's all true; and it's also true that her 80s and 90s work was quite well received in some circles. That said, I would place a sizeable wager that, twenty years hence, the AGM of people who believe Joni's 80s and 90s work is anywhere near as good as her 70s work will be able to be held in a VERY small building. And I don't buy this notion that songs that sound mediocre now (like nearly all of Wild Things Run Fast) are going to sound any better once another five or ten summers have passed. One other point about the patchy reception of some of her 70s albums: would you not concede that this was partly due to the critics' simply not *getting* them? Hejira was just too out-there and innovative for a lot of critics to cope with. With, say, Night Ride Home, there's nothing much to *get*, regardless of whether you like the songs are good or not. They're not making the giant leaps that Joni was making in the 70s in terms of lyrical imagery, daring song structures and arrangements, elliptical melodies. That's why people can return to Hejira again and again and find more in it; or give Mingus one last despairing try - and finally it clicks! << The 80s records really got dismissed as inferior and I don't think that's fair especially after hearing the remastered DED from the Geffen box set. My opinion is that it really is a brilliant album. >> It's my favourite of her post-Mingus albums, though I couldn't say I find it brilliant. I haven't heard the remastered version, and I'm prepared to believe that it's an improvement on the original release (though sonically that wouldn't be difficult - does the remastering get rid of some of those horribly dated clanks and stabs?), though I find the songs mostly solid rather than truly inspired. << I really believe that her music needs time for people to put it into perspective. >> As I say above, I fundamentally disagree. Not ALL her music does. << I think some people (and I'm not referring to you, Azeem) probably listened to some of the later stuff once or twice, couldn't fit it into their picture of what they think Joni is or should be about and put it away, not to be listened to again. >> You needn't spare my delicate sensibilities: I WAS one of those people who only listened to Travelogue once, and I felt I deserved a bloody medal after I made it to the end! It merely confirmed what Both Sides Now had signalled, which was a catastrophic decline in her vocal powers, to the extent where I honestly believed that she can't sing any more (and I know I'm in a minority among her fans on this). And don't get me started on those ghastly arrangements... I would add that I have heard various tracks from Travelogue several times, and didn't like them any better. << Maybe that strategy would please us, her die-hard fans but why would a re-packaging of a 30 year old recording that's been in circulation since its release spark any interest with people that don't already own and love HOSL? >> There are precedents for this. David Bowie's back catalogue has been re-released several times since CD appeared, a strategy I don't like - but each time it seems to have generated interest, and the albums have all made reappearances in the top 75. John Howard's album Kid In A Big World (far more obscure than any Joni album) was re-released a couple of years ago and got some good press and media interest. People like Nick Drake and Eva Cassidy have obviously had massive resurgences of interest in the last decade. I believe that it's not beyond the wit of an enterprising record company to re-release some of Joni's real masterpieces in such a way that they kindle new interest - in fact the 30th anniversary would be a very GOOD time to do it! << And there is always the hope that somebody who picks up a compilation might go back and explore the originals. >> There is also a danger that someone who's vaguely heard of Joni buys The Beginning Of Survival as a way in and thinks "Well, it's all right, some good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't bother going any further." Horses for courses... Azeem in London NP: Kate Rogers - Sidelines - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 12/04/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:14:33 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? I'm there! Just got a couple of tickets...and it's just a week away. I'm beside myself with excitement! I can't believe I hadn't heard of this before. Right in my own back yard. I'm bummed that I got shut out of the Premium tickets though, which include a private reception with her. I'm gonna keep on trying to score those! - -Julius - -----Original Message----- From: Les Irvin To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:26:27 -0600 Subject: Joni to give talk in San Francisco? >From today's San Francisco Chronicle: If you're driving north of San Rafael on Route 101, keep your eyes on the road. But you might ask the passenger next to you to have a look at a large window in the Lights of Rafael store, where artist George Sumner and Donnalei Sumner, his wife, have presided over his painting of a 26-by-10-foot underwater mural. This is to call attention to endangered oceans, and it's the first in a series in tribute to World Environment Day, being marked the first week of June. P.S. Meanwhile, Earth Day, April 22, is being celebrated in San Francisco by the usually private Joni Mitchell, who's giving a rare talk at the Commonwealth Club about her love for the environment. Andrew Lawton, chairman of the club's Environment and National Resources Committee, says that several local singers had turned him down for the gig, which doesn't pay anything. He was thrilled when Mitchell's management said she'd agreed to be here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:03:25 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "The Bottom of the F*cking Barrel"--the rant continues Azeem wrote: And I don't buy this > notion that songs that sound mediocre now (like nearly all of Wild > Things Run Fast) are going to sound any better once another five or > ten summers have passed. > That's why people can return to > Hejira again and again and find more in it; or give Mingus one last > despairing try - and finally it clicks! I guess we will never see eye to eye on this. Quite frankly I find 'Moon at the Window', 'Be Cool', 'You Dream Flat Tires' and 'Ladies Man' to be far more interesting musically than anything on Hejira with the possible exception of 'Blue Motel Room'. Don't get me wrong. Hejira is brilliant and her soul-searching self-analysis has never been more indepth than on that record. But to me it has a very limited range of musical colors. The melodies are very repititious. Not so much a criticism as it fits the themes and tone of the record. Merely an observation. There are many later songs that have more interesting melodies, imo. I think 'Taming the Tiger' is just as daring in its way as Hejira. > > There are precedents for this. David Bowie's back catalogue has > been > re-released several times since CD appeared, a strategy I don't > like - > but each time it seems to have generated interest, and the albums > have > all made reappearances in the top 75. I may be wrong about this but I think Bowie has a bigger following and probably sold more records over the course of his career. I doubt that re-releasing Joni's post Court and Spark catalogue with added rarities, demos, etc. would generate as much interest. Bowie always had the ability to call attention to himself and still does. > People like Nick Drake and Eva Cassidy have obviously had massive > resurgences of interest in the last decade. Well I hate to sound cynical but these two people have the decided advantage of being dead. There is very often a resurgence of interest in an artist's work after they have departed this world. In Eva Cassidy's case, I believe the recognition did not come until after she was gone. > > There is also a danger that someone who's vaguely heard of Joni buys > The Beginning Of Survival as a way in and thinks "Well, it's all > right, some good songs, but it's not really all that, maybe I won't > bother going any further." And then again, somebody might pick it up that would like the kind of topical, edgy material that's on it better than some of Joni's more personal, acoustic work. It is, after all, all a matter of personal taste. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #160 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)