From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #142 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 30 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 142 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) ["hell" ] RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + Firesign ["] Red Lake. . .now hunting njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: condoms and AIDS, njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: condoms and AIDS, njc [Em ] Re: njc Carnivale - Deadwood [Jerry Notaro ] Fwd: RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + when sand meets snow [mags h ] Re: condoms and AIDS, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: njc Carnivale - Deadwood [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog- Now Catholics NJC ["Steven Polifka"] Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) ["David Henderson" ] Re: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: condoms and AIDS NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: condoms and AIDS NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Shameless (well, for the most part) Groveling + Public Service Announcement, NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: hunting NJC [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] RE: hunting NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + Firesign [] Re: hunting / doves NJC [Smurf ] JMDL is controlling the world -- njc [Smurf ] Re: hunting / doves NJC [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: NJC Schiavo and massacre ["Sherelle Smith" ] re: Rhythm & Torch Updates NJC... ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) ["mia ortlieb" Subject: RE: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) Kate wrote: > This is so amazingly appealing to me... if only our country had these > laws... gun violence is way out of control here... what is the > influence in > NZ that created this law do you think? I long to live in such a world... I'm not sure why we ended up with such strict laws (I didn't have time to find references to this) but I did do some research on gun control in NZ, and found the following facts: "A" LICENCE A firearms licence allows the holder to have use sporting type shotguns and rifles without reference to the Police. The licence is also required by people aged 16 and 17 who wish to buy or use an airgun. "B" ENDORSEMENT This allows the holder to own or possess pistols (as long as he/she is a member of an incorporated pistol club recognised by the Commissioner of Police) and to take those pistols to and from the pistol club under certain conditions. "C" ENDORSEMENT This allows the holder to have pistols and/or restricted weapons. These may not be fired, are subject to strict storage security and are registered with the police. Persons who come within this category are in the sub-categories of: bona fide collectors, a person to whom a pistol or restricted weapon has special significance (heirloom or memento), the director or curator of a bona fide museum, employees of theatrical groups or film making organisation. Note: Each of these endorsements is issued under authority of a difference subsection of the Arms Act and is specific for the purpose it was issued. If you have a "C" endorsement for one category it does not automatically entitle you to any other category. REVOCATION Your firearms licence or endorsements can be revoked by a Commissioned Officer of Police if you act in such a way that indicates you are no longer a fit and proper person to be in possession of a firearm. Police are required to seize firearms and consider revocation of a person's firearms licence if that person is involved in family (domestic) violence. A protection order issued under the Domestic Violence Act has the effect of revoking a firearms licence. This can be varied only be application to the Court. Also: You must produce your firearms licence when purchasing firearms or ammunition. If you wish to obtain firearms of ammunition by "mail order" the supplier will require an order in writing signed by you and endorsed by a member of the police. You can read the entire NZ Arms Code document (if you can be bothered!) here: http://www.shootingnz.com/documents/arms-code.pdf Me again: You "can" obtain and use hand-guns legally (or illegally) here, but it is rare that they are used violently. Most gun violence here involves rifles and/or shotguns, but more often knives, etc. which can be more easily concealed. I definitely like the clause above that states that firearms (and licence) will be seized in the event of domestic violence. Our gun laws are one of the (many) things I love about this country. Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:37:47 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + Firesign > Hmmm, many native cultures believe that the earth was > carried on the back of a giant turtle, or something > similar. In any case, the turtle shows up in creation > myth in many places in the world. Stephen King mentions turtles in this respect in several books - from my unreliable memory, "It" and the "Dark Tower" series, if not others. Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:02:00 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Red Lake. . .now hunting njc Perhaps I shouldn't get started talking about hunting. But I am not infavor of hunting, especially when it is defined as a "Sport." a sport is a game that when two parties come together and AGREE to play, they both have the SAME eqipment. Lori, your post made me think of this. I accept hunting only as the indians proceeded. but now there is tofu and a cornicopia of other protein sources. : -) hey, I am certainly not perfect. . I still buy leather shoes. . . (not proud of that) XOXOX Marianne Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:27:37 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) Chiming in late here ... Vince wrote: >Many parts of this country, hunting is a regular activity and kids hunt. But the question is, WHY? Do they not get enough to eat? No grocery stores in their neck of the woods? Where is the fairness in shooting an unarmed animal? Lori _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:25:46 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS, njc > You might be a conservative Catholic Jerry, but I don't usually fit in for > very long with that crowd because they usually don't tolerate me. Some do, > but they seem to be as rare as dogmas. > > Love, > Laura > > Oh I9m not a Catholic at all, anymore. I am Unitarian. I agree that you are > not a conservative Catholic :) Most Catholics I know are very liberal and > agree with your views, but I think they are fooling themselves. I disagreed > with Catholic doctrine, so I left and joined a Church whose tenants I agreed. > But I don9t think you or they can have it both ways. No matter how you > rationalize, the Catholic Church is very clear on many things like abortion, > birth control, euthanasia, pre-marital sex, etc. That is what attracts people > to the religion in the first place. If you are comfortable with the conflict, > it works for you. I wasn9t. Now show me where they accept homosexuality :) > > xoxo > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:31:00 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS, njc if dogmas run free, then why can't we? hee hee... em - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > > You might be a conservative Catholic Jerry, but I don't usually > fit in > for > > very long with that crowd because they usually don't tolerate me. > Some do, > > but they seem to be as rare as dogmas. > > > > Love, > > Laura "its hard to know the truth, so we live with points of view". ....Mary Gauthier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:12:58 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc Carnivale - Deadwood > vince wrote: > >> anyone watch these two shows besides me? > > I haven't tried Deadwood, but I'm a total Carnivale fanatic. I've seen > all 24 episodes at least once. How incredibly rare for the medium of > TV to have something so artful. Especially since television is a medium that is rarely well-done. Jerry :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 06:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: Fwd: RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + when sand meets snow after 5 years on this list, i still forget the reply 'everyone' .. ;-) Note: forwarded message attached. Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Received: from [24.77.17.37] by web53710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:12:06 PST Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:12:06 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + when sand meets snow To: Richard Flynn In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Length: 743 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c-p1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Yes, "Curious" was published as a kid's book; and promoted as such here. I've seen it in both sections in bookstores. Agreed, Catherine, ...this is an engaging, accessible book. Reading is a saving grace in these climbingthewallshopingwinterwillendsoon days in Winterpeg ;-)). When sand meets snow...it is now the brownsnowtime in the citay....(oh dear, Christopher wouldn't like this either) it's a mess out there in Winterpeg. The crews are out, night and day, washing down the walls of buildings, trying to clean things up for the Junos on Sunday. Lots of excitement in the air, in anticipation of Neil Young etc. Mags, loving the book banter. Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:20:45 -0500 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Re: "The Easter Birds" ... starring Jody -- njc I'm only a few hundred posts behind, but this caught my eye. Smurf, you are brilliant -LOL! For those of you who have not spent an Easter with Smurf, I would start booking in advance NOW! jody - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smurf" To: Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:25 PM Subject: "The Easter Birds" ... starring Jody -- njc > http://tokyo.craigslist.org/rnr/65739022.html > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:30:23 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: condoms and AIDS NJC LAURA SAID: "I've always heard from the Catholic church that it is ultimately up to the married couple's conscience to decide about birth control. The church gives guidance through statements and suggestions but doesn't decide for people. Nor does it condemn people for their choices. It might warn people their soul is in grave danger, but today it doesn't tell anybody they are condemned for anything except not accepting God's love." With all due respect Laura, this is in no way what the mainstream Catholic Church teaches - maybe you attend a more liberal church with the Church. This is, for the most part, the exact opposite of the what the Church teaches here in New York City as well as what the Church teaches in the small parish my mother attends in the South. And that's here in America where the Church carefully tempers its public messages. IMHO, David NP I Want To Live, Good Charlotte ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:33:06 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS, njc In a message dated 3/29/05 7:25:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: Most Catholics I know are very liberal and agree with your views, but I think they are fooling themselves. Hi Jerry, So you think I'm fooling myself? At least you didn't say I'm a fool myself. It is all about love and mercy in my opinion. But I donbt think you or they can have it both ways. There is a place for liberals and conservatives in the Catholic church. I'm a moderate so I get caught in the middle a lot. By its nature, the church is "universal" which to me means beyond the bounds of ideologies. There were disputes from the days of the apostles. I think the important thing is to stay together even though we all can't be close friends in the church. For me it is like a large family. There are people who you are just stuck with and some who are the deepest of all friends. No matter how you rationalize, the Catholic Church is very clear on many things like abortion, birth control, euthanasia, pre-marital sex, etc. Yes. This doesn't bother me. That is what attracts people to the religion in the first place. Some people for sure... If you are comfortable with the conflict, it works for you. I wasnbt. Yes. I am. Good for you leaving. No need to stay around and be miserable and not grow spiritually. Now show me where they accept homosexuality :) Oh that one is coming out of the closet as we speak! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:34:06 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: njc Carnivale - Deadwood I never watched HBO until I moved, and got it free for 4 months. Now that is all of the tv that I watch when I watch tv. Their new movie on Rwanda is incredibly slow paced but equally moving, and their last letters from Iraq show I could only watch for a few minutes at a time because it was so gut wretching. As for carnivale - i think you shoiuld only watch an episode at a time and then wait a few days. It needs time to sink in, it is allegorical. I think for the first time to plow through the entire season or two would remove much of the time spent in pondering what it all means. As for Deadwood - everything there is as accurate as can be from my prior knowledge of Deadwood (been there a number of times) and from research now. The recent New Yorker article on what's his name Milch was fascinating on the reserach he does for the show. Whereas in carnivale you have to look closely because the allusions go by quickly at times, with Deadwood you have to listen carefully - there is so much packed into that script. One of my favorite lines from last season was the Reverend as he was getting more and more deranged from his brain tumor began complaining to Calamity Jane (Robin Weigart plays her fantasticly) that he no longer God was listening to his prayers, that he was not as close to God anymore as he once was. The always drunk Calamity Jane muttered, "welcome to the club of the fucking rest of us." Maybe it was how it was played and delivered more than the words because I was on the floor laughing for a long time when I first heard that line. Anyway that show operates on so many levels - a western, yet also about American corporate greed, religion, the American spirit, history, human nature, sex, drugs, etc etc etc. It has never been attributed but Milch must of seen Altman's McCabe and Mrs Miller more than few times and if anyone liked McCabe and Mrs Miller, you will love Deadwood. Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net - -------------- Original message -------------- > > anyone watch these two shows besides me? > > > > Vince > > > I'd love to but I don't get HBO. I will get the DVDs of Carnivale some day. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:38:39 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: RE: The Curious Incident of the Dog- Now Catholics NJC The OT, the NT - It's all fiction Fiction of obedience Fiction of rebellion Fiction of the goody-goody and the hellion Fiction of destroyers Fiction of preservers Fiction of peacemakers and shit disturbers Fiction of the moralist Fiction of the nihilist Fiction of the innovator and the stylist Fiction of the killjoy Fiction of the charmer Fiction of the clay feet and the shining armour Fiction of the declaimers Fiction of the rebukers Fiction of the pro and the no nukers Fiction of the gizmo Fiction of the data Fiction of the this is this and that is that -- Ahh! Gotta love that Joan!! Steve STILL working on his paper 'Why Christians are Full of Shit' I was a christian slave, but now I am free... >>> 3/28/2005 11:42:26 PM >>> Catherine said: <<[snip]C, who has also read the CI of the D in the NT and would also recommend it; and it is a very quick read,>> Oh, Catherine, why MUST you always talk in code, and this may be the first time I've heard the New Testament referred to as a "quick read"! Follow the yellow brick road! Love to all, Weird Walt - -- Let the walls go tumbling down Falling on the ground And all the dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kenneled in me > > --- Richard Flynn wrote: > > Isn't that the Firesign Theater album with, "Follow > > the rubber yellow line > > to your seat." > > > > Although my favorite line on that particular record > > is actually: > > "In the Beginning was this Turtle." > > > > Hmmm, many native cultures believe that the earth was > carried on the back of a giant turtle, or something > similar. In any case, the turtle shows up in creation > myth in many places in the world. > > C, who has also read the CI of the D in the NT and > would also recommend it; and it is a very quick read, > as someone already pointed out, so I also would > recommend it to anyone who claims they can't finish a > book, or to an adolescent or teenager who has > difficulty reading. > > Catherine > Toronto > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:47:53 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) LORI SAID: >Vince wrote: > Many parts of this country, hunting is a regular activity and kids hunt. >But the question is, WHY? Do they not get enough to eat? No grocery >stores in their neck of the woods? Where is the fairness in shooting >an unarmed animal? >Lori Where is the fairness in killing an unarmed cow in a meat processing plant? I grew up hunting and fishing as did most people in Louisiana. Are you saying it's better to eat the fish you buy in the store that someone else killed than it is to catch and eat your own fish? I don't see the logic in that. I have never known hunters who shoot animals at random and leave them lying in the fields. Hunters consume or sell or give away the meat. For most people, hunting and fishing harkens back to a simpler time when we lived hand-to-land. It gives you the same feeling of accomplishment that growing your own vegetables gives you (even though all gardeners know it would be easier to just go to the grocery store and buy their vegetables). We are hunters and gatherers by nature, and it can feel really wonderful to many to take your meat and fish and vegetables straight from God and distribute them to your friends and family without commerce. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:32:18 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: bozos njc "Squeeze the wheeze and ease the breeze". - ----- Original Message ----- From: "vince" Cc: Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: bozos njc > well of course it is, twas the name of an album in fact > > there are many memories of my younger son (my Marine kid) with that line - > > Vince > > McMillan Brad wrote: > > >Walt; > >You said: > >"We're all bozos on this bus." > > > >Isn't that Firesign Theatre? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:08:57 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) David; You said: "....it can feel really wonderful to many to take your meat and fish and vegetables straight from God and distribute them to your friends and family without commerce." I thought that was very well said. I don't hunt, but I understand it. I love to fish. I tried hunting deer once. I couldn't handle the dressing of the deer. An ex-corpsman, the inside of the deer looked a little too human for me. But I understand it. The hunters I know are very compassionate in their desire for a "clean" kill. I have seen guys track a wounded animal for miles to put it out of its misery (and to retrieve the meat). - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Henderson" To: ; "Joni Mitchell List" Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:47 AM Subject: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) > LORI SAID: > >Vince wrote: > > Many parts of this country, hunting is a regular activity and kids hunt. > > >But the question is, WHY? Do they not get enough to eat? No grocery > >stores in their neck of the woods? Where is the fairness in shooting > >an unarmed animal? > >Lori > > Where is the fairness in killing an unarmed cow in a meat processing plant? > I grew up hunting and fishing as did most people in Louisiana. Are you > saying it's better to eat the fish you buy in the store that someone else > killed than it is to catch and eat your own fish? I don't see the logic in > that. I have never known hunters who shoot animals at random and leave them > lying in the fields. Hunters consume or sell or give away the meat. For > most people, hunting and fishing harkens back to a simpler time when we > lived hand-to-land. It gives you the same feeling of accomplishment that > growing your own vegetables gives you (even though all gardeners know it > would be easier to just go to the grocery store and buy their vegetables). > We are hunters and gatherers by nature, and it can feel really wonderful to > many to take your meat and fish and vegetables straight from God and > distribute them to your friends and family without commerce. > > David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:54:20 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS, njc In a message dated 3/29/05 7:31:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, emzdogz@yahoo.com writes: if dogmas run free, then why can't we? ROFLLLLLLL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:08:14 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: hunting NJC VINCE SAID: >A lot of folks like the taste of venison and game just like other folks >like whatever they like. I do not venison, and I do not like game. >But I didn't grow up on it and many folks out here love it. Hunting >season is as big a gourmet/communal event in the lives of some people as >any other food or beverage season can be. I have a good friend who >loves squirrel. There is nothing so gross to me as a freezer full of >squirrel. It is also a part of some people's culture. I think you're right, Vince. It does make a difference if you were raised this way or not. I grew up in a relatively poor family, and at least 75 percent (or more) of our meat and fish came from what we hunted/caught ourselves. We ate deer, pheasant, squirrel, duck and rabbit often. I probably ate more deer than beef growing up because it was free and beef was not. My father would pay me to clean fish - for hours and hours. I bought a lot of records with that money! When I was growing up, the whole "gathering" process was very communal, a big part of family life. Hunting and fishing in big groups of family and extended family . . . everyone sharing the catch. Six or seven times every summer, my grandmother would put together a group of 10 or so of us, we'd go out to my aunt's farm and pick peas and beans and greens and corn by the bushel, and then sit for hours shelling peas and shucking corn, etc., rushing to get everything cleaned and packed by Friday. Then family members would stop by all weekend to pick-up what they wanted. It was a great way to share and visit. In exchange for the vegetables, we'd get homemade sausage and boudain, homemade jellies like mayhaw and blackberry, fresh honey, rice, watermelons, shrimp, crawfish . . . whatever other people gathered. I know it probably sounds very weird to many of you, especially if you grew up in an urban area, but that was the culture I grew-up in, so it just seemed perfectly normal to me. David NP DJRD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:47:36 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS NJC I wrote: I've always heard from the Catholic church that it is ultimately up to the married couple's conscience to decide about birth control. David wrote: With all due respect Laura, this is in no way what the mainstream Catholic Church teaches Hi David, Way man. The free will and the conscience of the individual is where the church draws the line and knows it can't go. The church tries to provide what it sees as the most healthy environment possible for the formation of what it considers to be a healthy conscience, but it doesn't decide personal matters for people nor does it condemn them for their personal choices... it only warns them they are in grave danger if they miss the mark as the church sees it. To me it is similar to my experience of being a parent. I set standards to try to prevent my kids from harm. Like thou shalt not eat too many donuts, thou shalt not be disrespectful to one's body or that of others; thou shalt not take candy or drugs from strangers, thou shalt not speak cuss words, thou shalt brush thy teeth, etc. When my kids don't quite keep to my standards, I don't give them to the devil. I counsel them as a loving parent and set limits and use natural and logical consequences, but I know ultimately I can't make decisions for them... they will make their own decisions. I will always love them and pray for happiness for them even if they don't love me and complain about my standards. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:03:42 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS NJC > Hi David, > > Way man. The free will and the conscience of the individual is where > the church draws the line and knows it can't go. The church tries to provide > what it sees as the most healthy environment possible for the formation of > what it considers to be a healthy conscience, but it doesn't decide personal > matters for people nor does it condemn them for their personal choices... it > only warns them they are in grave danger if they miss the mark as the church > sees it. I don't know which Catholic church you belong to. I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and it is in no way reflected by what you describe, Laura. You sound more like a Unitarian. But that's OK. Most Unitarians are former Catholics! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:48:53 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Shameless (well, for the most part) Groveling + Public Service Announcement, NJC Soooo.... I'm doing this fundraiser walk to benefit Multiple Sclerosis research and education this Saturday (April 2), and for various reasons (primarily my own procrastination) I've yet to reach my personal fundraising goal. I was making myself a quick list of the folks I need to contact to raise a few more bucks for the cause, and I thought of y'all. My Aunt Melanie had MS back when I was a kid, and I only knew her as a wheelchair-bound semi-invalid, though there were plenty of stories and photos that proved she was other than that not so many years earlier. When I was diagnosed with MS in 2003, I started preparing myself for the same fate, which I thought was inevitable. Turns out that a pretty effective treatment was first approved by the FDA about 10 years earlier (too late for Aunt Melanie, unfortunately), and several other similar treatments have gained approval since, keeping MS patients mobile and healthier longer. The treatments that are out there aren't perfect by any means, and there are lots of other things on the horizon that appear to potentially be more effective and less invasive than the current medications, but research takes lots of money. Early diagnosis, and the resulting early drug intervention, is also a huge part of staying healthy as long as possible. That's the stuff you and I can help with. ___________________________________________________ Read here to learn about MS and about its early symptoms - http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about%20ms.asp Read here to find out how to contact and help at your local MS Chapter (assuming you live in the US!) - http://www.nationalmssociety.org/mycommunity/index.asp Read here to see my team page and donate a buck or two for this Saturday's walk, if you'd like - https://www.nationalmssociety.org/ALC/personal/my_team.asp?pa=51692846&pd=ALC0EWLK20050402BHM ____________________________________________________ Thanks! cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:56:52 -0500 From: bryan8847@aol.com Subject: Carnivale, Huff, etc. NJC vince wrote: > anyone watch these two shows besides me? Carnivale is pretty good, though sometimes the writing doesn't hold up to the quality that the visual experience does. Is anyone watching Huff (on Showtime...or is it HBO?). Great show...Hank Azaria, Oliver Platt, Blythe Danner and many other fine actors. And don't get me started on Battlestar Gallactica. I'm hooked. Best space opera yet. Mary McDonnell, my favorite under-rated actress. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:37:46 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: hunting NJC hi >>>david wrote >>>>> I think you're right, Vince. It does make a difference if you were >>>>> raised this way or not. I grew up in a relatively poor family, and at >>>>> least 75 percent (or more) of our meat and fish came from what we hunted/caught ourselves. We ate deer, pheasant, squirrel, duck and rabbit often. I probably ate more deer than beef growing up because it was free and beef was not. amazing - hunting here is a pretty elitist way of getting meat. you can only hunt on game farms, & then you pay for every animal you shoot, plus for access to the game farm & accomodation, dressing the meat, etc. at the end of the day the local supermarket is a way cheaper option. a popular scam is the fairly common practise of "hunting" the same animal several times in one day. with a bit of practise an already shot trophy animal (lion/leopard/buffalo etc) can be rigged up with a rope to fall over when a second, or even third hunter takes a shot at it. the hunters then pay huge amounts of money & receive a skin from a dead circus animal ............... though i dont hunt personally, i have a number of friends who do. i eat the meat with a clear conscience, knowing that it was probably killed a lot more humanely, and definitely more hygienically, than the cow slaughtered at the slaughterhouse. ron np - michael hedges - come together ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:46:49 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: hunting NJC - -- > a popular scam is the fairly common practise of "hunting" the same animal > several times in one day. with a bit of practise an already shot trophy > animal (lion/leopard/buffalo etc) can be rigged up with a rope to fall over > when a second, or even third hunter takes a shot at it. the hunters then pay > huge amounts of money & receive a skin from a dead circus animal that actually is kind of cool - great white hunters get scammed, less wear and tear on actual wildlife, and great recyclying of what would otherwise go to waste > ............... > > though i dont hunt personally, i have a number of friends who do. i eat the > meat with a clear conscience, knowing that it was probably killed a lot more > humanely, and definitely more hygienically, than the cow slaughtered at the > slaughterhouse. > > I wonder if others have been surprised at the numbers of hunters amongst us, and the excellence of the conversation which has examined many facets of the issue. Just to be in perspective, I have signed the petition in Michigan to put to a vote a ban on dove hunting. Dove hunting just bothers me no end. Its just a pigeon - but what the hell, I am drawing the line on this one. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:51:52 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: hunting NJC Hello Ron - Where are you from? I must have missed it. It sounds like you're from somewhere far more exotic than I am. Scams like that are sad. I'm not familiar with scams like that here, but then I don't think we have any animals here in America that are so prized as a lion or buffalo (Do we still have buffalo?). Exotic animals are like jewels - they don't always bring out the best in people, unfortunately. David NP Sum 41, Pieces >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: ron [mailto:flopit@telkomsa.net] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 5:38 PM >>>To: David Henderson; revrvl@comcast.net; Joni Mitchell List >>>Subject: Re: hunting NJC >>> >>> >>>hi >>> >>> >>> >>>david wrote >>>>>>>> I think you're right, Vince. It does make a difference if >>>you were >>>>>>>> raised this way or not. I grew up in a relatively poor >>>family, and at >>>>>>>> least 75 >>>percent (or more) of our meat and fish came from what we hunted/caught >>>ourselves. We ate deer, pheasant, squirrel, duck and rabbit often. I >>>probably ate more deer than beef growing up because it was free >>>and beef was >>>not. >>> >>> >>>amazing - hunting here is a pretty elitist way of getting meat. >>>you can only >>>hunt on game farms, & then you pay for every animal you shoot, plus for >>>access to the game farm & accomodation, dressing the meat, etc. >>>at the end >>>of the day the local supermarket is a way cheaper option. >>> >>>a popular scam is the fairly common practise of "hunting" the >>>same animal >>>several times in one day. with a bit of practise an already shot trophy >>>animal (lion/leopard/buffalo etc) can be rigged up with a rope >>>to fall over >>>when a second, or even third hunter takes a shot at it. the >>>hunters then pay >>>huge amounts of money & receive a skin from a dead circus animal >>>............... >>> >>>though i dont hunt personally, i have a number of friends who >>>do. i eat the >>>meat with a clear conscience, knowing that it was probably >>>killed a lot more >>>humanely, and definitely more hygienically, than the cow >>>slaughtered at the >>>slaughterhouse. >>> >>> >>>ron >>>np - michael hedges - come together ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:21:17 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time NJC + Firesign hi >>>hell wrote >>>> Stephen King mentions turtles in this respect in several books - from >>>> my unreliable memory, "It" and the "Dark Tower" series, if not others. & here i thought steve was referring to the terry pratchett discworld series (where the world is flat & carried on the back of a great turtle)..... what a disappointment :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:07:43 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: hunting / doves NJC - --- Vince wrote: > Dove hunting just bothers me no end. Its > just a pigeon - but what the hell, I am drawing the > line on this one. > Well doves ARE pretty symbolic, Vince. - --Smurf, who wouldn't shoot a hawk either, unless it gave me a lot of attitude or something ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: JMDL is controlling the world -- njc My GOD!!! I just read that the pope may have to have a feeding tube! If these two threads collide, we may never talk about anything else! - --Smurf, wondering if the pope hunts in the woods __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:19:46 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: hunting / doves NJC Damn, I would never shoot a hawk, either. They are so magnificant. In 1999 I cried while my then-partner shot racoons that were atacking my ducks, feeling badly that measures to non violently ward off the racoons failed. Then I buried the damned evil racoons with many curses because they attacked my ducks. Vince - -------------- Original message -------------- > > --Smurf, who wouldn't shoot a hawk either, unless it > gave me a lot of attitude or something ... / ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:56:10 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: NJC Schiavo and massacre Hi Paz, Still catching on digests so my apologies. I am so sorry that your brother has taken a turn for the worse. My prayers are with you all Paz. It must feel especially good to have your brother Ray around. You both need each other right now. Love you much!!!! Sherelle Paz wrote: Thanks for the posts ya'll. And btw if I am ever in a way similar to Terry and there is no hope. All of you please come on down and smother me with your love cause I for ONE would not like to be that for 15 minutes (much less 15 years). Feeling sad and happy at the same time! My brother Willy has taken a wrong turn for the worse and my brother Julius (or "RAY" as we call him in the hood) turned up for a week long celbration for no apparent reason and I am so grateful. Love to all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:04:40 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: condoms and AIDS NJC Jerry wrote: Most Unitarians are former Catholics! Hi Jerry, Glad they finally got the "Catholic" church right for themselves. If you see the Roman Catholic church so different from how I do, then I agree, you were right to have left and left for the right reasons. I wouldn't want to be in your old Roman Catholic church either. I'm sticking with mine though. Smile. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:42:44 -0500 From: vince Subject: hey JoniFest fans! I think we need to plan a rural, southern, or western JoniFest, BYOG 2006 JoniFest (Bring your own game) the sharing of hunting tips, group sessions on gutting and skinning skills, and the cook outs should feed everyone! The logo almost suggests itself: Roy's Dad Cadillac with a dead deer strapped on the fender and a possum under the tire. I am sure SugarCamouflagePants will make an appearance! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:58:25 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Rhythm & Torch Updates NJC... Steve wrote <<"She smirked and said, oh, that's an original of Steve's... Every Cliche' Might Apply" (The chorus goes: Are you my compliment? You should be my compliment Sweet, romantic compliments...)>> Steve, it's so great to hear that you are getting such a terrific response to your music. You are an incredibly talented musician and songwriter! Way to Go! When is your CD coming out? Soon I hope! This is totally off the subject, but the word "compliment" reminded me of a totally stupid joke I heard over the weekend. I'm no great joke teller, but it went something like this: A guy walks into a bar, orders a beer, and starts talking to a bowl of peanuts that is sitting on top of the bar. He says stuff like "Thank You" and "You are too kind" etc..Another guy at the other end of the bar notices this strange behavior, walks over, and starts questioning the man: "Why are you talking to that bowl?" The first guy answers: "Because the peanuts are complimentary." (rimshot) Sorry, I can't help it. I'm a big fan of stupid jokes. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:15:36 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Tragedy at Red Lake High School (njc) Lori wrote: <> And what about the latest trend in hunting? Killing a deer from your personal computer - I heard that there is a preserve in Texas where they march the animals across so a guy in the comforts of his own home can go online, pay with a credit card, then point and shoot with the click of a button over the Internet. What's up with that? (sigh) Mia ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #142 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)