From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #130 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 23 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 130 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- summary of Tree Museum proposal [Warren Smith ] Re: NJC burial, your body [Catherine McKay ] RE: Prairie Songs [Bob Muller ] Schiavo, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: NJC Schiavo [Em ] Come In From The Cold ["hell" ] did I miss something? jonifests, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Come In From The Cold [Jerry Notaro ] RNH [Em ] Re: Come In From The Cold [Smurf ] Re: Compilations [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Compilations [Em ] Re: brain stem, njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: brain stem, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: Compilations ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: brain stem, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] e: FW: Mary Gauthier NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] I love this list! (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Terry and HOPE NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Terry and HOPE NJC [Em ] Re: brain stem, njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: Prairie Songs [Brian Gross ] The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) [Brian Gross ] Re: The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) (now njc) [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Terry and HOPE NJC [Em ] Re: Come In From The Cold ["Happy The Man" ] Re: brain stem, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: brain stem, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Terry and HOPE NJC ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:14:24 -0800 (PST) From: Warren Smith Subject: summary of Tree Museum proposal Summary (for full proposal, email NJTreeMuseum@yahoo.com) They took all the trees And put them in a tree museum And they charged all the people A dollar and a half just to see 'em. - Joni Mitchell, 1970 The inspiration for Tree Museums is a song in which paying to see transplanted trees was meant to be a bit facetious. But, upon much further consideration, I make this very serious proposal. A Tree Museum is a win-win-win proposition. It would be a legacy to the initiative on urban sprawl. A Tree Museum can contain a playground, picnic area, historical building, or monument or it could stretch along a canal towpath or an abandoned railroad right-of-way. Tree Museums are suitable for irregular areas separate from State Parks, such as grassy dog walking areas at turnpike rest stops. There can be acres of trees at underutilized State Parks. Beautify barren, poorly kept historic cemeteries. Some old landfill sites and brownfields would be suitable. I envision a New Jersey Tree Museum with pathways patterned after Floridas Cypress Gardens plus an educational center. There would be separate areas of swampy and sandy soil for different tree species. The Tree Museum could include a greenhouse. Sell tokens ( Tree Museum / $1.50 Admission ) at State Park entrances and even in gift shops along the turnpike. Tokens would commonly be sold in pairs (two for $3) - one for admission and one to save. Collectible tokens could be redesigned and dated every year. For the first one, put Joni Mitchell on the obverse. Tokens can be sold well in advance of the opening of the first Tree Museum, to provide construction funding. Individual trees could be paid for in exchange for the trees dedication. Offer the memorialization of a tree, at various costs, to commemorate a birth, a death, an anniversary, or another event. There could be (no charge) tree markers to honor the individual sacrifices of New Jerseys soldiers, sailors and airmen. Only two things are critical: Call the area Tree Museum and charge exactly a dollar and a half admission. Warren Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:38:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC burial, your body I meant WAS probably the wrong one (or was probably not the RIGHT one). That's what bad editing does. Catherine McKay wrote:The expression "Living will" was probably not the wrong one to use in this case. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: RE: Prairie Songs Dude, wait a month and you can probably get it for half that. The Starbucks set is currently selling at around $10 for the PAIR. I'm sure the marketing folks have looked at the buying patterns for these comps, and see that the sales curve starts with a HUGE spike (from the completists who have to have every Joni CD) and then torpeodoes downward fast. So they price it ridiculously high coming out of the gate to maximize the take. Simple economics, Watson. Bob NP: The Homemade Orchestra, "All I Want" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:01:18 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Schiavo, njc I sympathize with both sides of this case too. Every case has to be evaluated on it own. . . there are different circumstances for all. . Right now I am feeling that if the parents feel so strongly about this, then we should respect their wishes. . Let her have some water. . . this is bothering me. . . I am more of a radical leftist on most fronts. .. but sometimes I think we should error on the conservative side. . . (like with the environment, health issues. . and fiscal matters) if she is not in pain let her exist, if her parents wish. . yes, there are spousal rights. . but if my child were dying, or in this state. . I would want some rights too. If she has some water she can go through a fasting state, which could be beneficial to her body and who knows, prehaps her condition. Her parents think they are doing the right thing. . . there is no quality of life right now for Terry, but her parents want this. . in my opinion, they should be given this. . . she responds when she is visited by loved ones, right? . . .error on the conservative side here. . we are just talking food and water. . if there were artificial means, this would be different. no partisan politics here. ask (or pray) for the very best. Marianne no regrets _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 04:35:29 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC Schiavo I feel like Terri has been turned into a piece of meat, being tugged into many directions by all parties involved. Wolves, vultures, etc. She's been reduced to prime road kill on the highway of sordid Florida life. I'm not much of a Christian..but I do pray for peace (finally) for her. And no pain. Em - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > > What really makes me upset is that it's such a political issue as > many of you > have mentioned. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:39:20 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Come In From The Cold Time for some lyric analysis... On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player with some Joni songs (among other artists) and had time to really listen to the lyrics for a change. I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, and how it almost appears to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: Back in 1957 We had to dance a foot apart And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines Holding their rulers without a heart And so with just a touch of our fingers I could make our circuitry explode All we ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Obviously those dances she went to as a child were strictly chaperoned! But from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very fond memory from her past. We really thought we had a purpose We were so anxious to achieve We had hope The world held promise For a slave to liberty Freely I slaved away for something better And I was bought and sold And all I ever wanted Was to come in from the cold At the start of Joni's career, particularly around the time of the Woodstock festival the youth were all about "changing the world" and "making a difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, but she became another victim of commercialism in some respects, and that idealism was lost along the way. She really exposed herself emotionally with Blue, and then "burned out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, prompting the retreat to BC where most of FTR was written. I feel your leg under the table Leaning into mine I feel renewed I feel disabled By these bonfires in my spine I don't know who the arsonist was Which incendiary soul But all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in her back? I am not some stone commission Like a statue in a park I am flesh and blood and vision I am howling in the dark Long blue shadows of the jackals Are falling on a pay phone by the road Oh, all they ever wanted Was to come in from the cold She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. Could "howling in the dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps it's a coyote, or a Wolf That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less obvious reference to the critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" ready to pounce. She's also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has evolved as well - she's not going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. she's moving, not a statue. Is this just vulgar electricity Is this the edifying fire (it was so pure) Does your smile's covert complicity Debase as it admires (just a flu with a temperature) Are you just checking out your mojo Or am I just fighting off growing old (just a high fever) All I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" album, which was also a tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't quite have the impact she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but understandable after the perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something completely different, although she appears to be second-guessing it a little - maybe a hint of a mid-life crisis ;o) I know we never will be perfect Never entirely clear (when the moon shines) We get hurt and we just panic And we strike out Out of fear (you were only being kind) I fear the sentence of this solitude 200 years on hold (for my loving crime) Oh and all we ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a "pioneer" of woman in the music industry (with some justification), and has made some harsh statements about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt threatened at times, and that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems to be a little lonely out on that limb all by herself... When I thought life had some purpose Then I thought I had some choice (I was running blind) And I made some value judgments In a self-important voice (I was outa line) But then absurdity came over me And I longed to lose control (into no mind) Oh all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, with Mingus and/or WTRF? She also ventured into more politically-charged waters with DED and CMIARS. Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being "meaningful" or "political" (as people had come to expect) and have fun with her music, but the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) she was panned by the critics and fans. Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost count of how many times I listened to this song recently - still one of my favourites. The last two lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever wanted, was just to come in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is what all of us really want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think she can say more in one song, than most people can in an entire career! I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:57:42 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: did I miss something? jonifests, njc As I understand it, everybody gets to try a little something different at the jonifests. ; -) >>As long as we're fantasizing: >>Aliens shoot the planet with a "love ray" that simultaneously >>sterilizes all the males, and causes everyone to fuck in the streets. >>RR, >>famous ho >so it'd be like jonifest, but without the consequences in the >late spring? >where do i sign up?! Did I miss something at JoniFest??????? Apparently I did. Lori, always running behind _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:39:09 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Compilations I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' number of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the reasons for all these compilations? She's already said (numerous times) that she's no longer writing music, so while it may be annoying to us long-time fans (who already have her entire catalogue), producing these compilations is a way of meeting that obligation, and of perhaps reaching a younger and/or broader audience with these songs. Given the recent covers of her music by The Counting Crows, Diana Krall, kd lang, etc. and the Starbucks releases, I think it's an astute business move - and probably the best time to do it, if she's been considering this for a while. If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time with your grand-children! Just my $0.02 Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:07:52 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell Well mine is that yours is one of the best Joni posts in a long, long time. Your analysis is right on. You are some writer, Missy! Makes me long for some new Joni. She is at a place where her powers are at the height and a wisdom most seldom attain. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: RNH ha! on a rainy rainy day, our community radio is treating us to Rainy Night House right at this moment. a cool thing... I love streaming audio. Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:11:38 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Great post, Hell. I am running out the door, but I wanted to add that it's interesting how the theme of electricity runs all through the circuits of this song line a heartbeat! And I think I remember Joni saying that her grandmother used to call electricity vulgar. Or am I on drugs? - --Bob, running off to go make the world a better place once again - --- hell wrote: > Time for some lyric analysis... > > On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player > with some Joni songs (among > other artists) and had time to really listen to the > lyrics for a change. > > I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, > and how it almost appears > to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: > > Back in 1957 > We had to dance a foot apart > And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines > Holding their rulers without a heart > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > All we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Obviously those dances she went to as a child were > strictly chaperoned! But > from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very > fond memory from her > past. > > We really thought we had a purpose > We were so anxious to achieve > We had hope > The world held promise > For a slave to liberty > Freely I slaved away for something better > And I was bought and sold > And all I ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > At the start of Joni's career, particularly around > the time of the Woodstock > festival the youth were all about "changing the > world" and "making a > difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, > but she became another > victim of commercialism in some respects, and that > idealism was lost along > the way. She really exposed herself emotionally > with Blue, and then "burned > out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, > prompting the retreat to BC > where most of FTR was written. > > I feel your leg under the table > Leaning into mine > I feel renewed > I feel disabled > By these bonfires in my spine > I don't know who the arsonist was > Which incendiary soul > But all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > The queen of duality strikes again - she could just > be talking about new > love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. > disabled by the pain in her > back? > > I am not some stone commission > Like a statue in a park > I am flesh and blood and vision > I am howling in the dark > Long blue shadows of the jackals > Are falling on a pay phone by the road > Oh, all they ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. > Could "howling in the > dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps > it's a coyote, or a Wolf > That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less > obvious reference to the > critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" > ready to pounce. She's > also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has > evolved as well - she's not > going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. > she's moving, not a > statue. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > (it was so pure) > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > (just a flu with a temperature) > Are you just checking out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > (just a high fever) > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" > album, which was also a > tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't > quite have the impact > she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but > understandable after the > perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something > completely different, > although she appears to be second-guessing it a > little - maybe a hint of a > mid-life crisis ;o) > > I know we never will be perfect > Never entirely clear > (when the moon shines) > We get hurt and we just panic > And we strike out > Out of fear > (you were only being kind) > I fear the sentence of this solitude > 200 years on hold > (for my loving crime) > Oh and all we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a > "pioneer" of woman in the > music industry (with some justification), and has > made some harsh statements > about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt > threatened at times, and > that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems > to be a little lonely > out on that limb all by herself... > > When I thought life had some purpose > Then I thought I had some choice > (I was running blind) > And I made some value judgments > In a self-important voice > (I was outa line) > But then absurdity came over me > And I longed to lose control > (into no mind) > Oh all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, > with Mingus and/or WTRF? > She also ventured into more politically-charged > waters with DED and CMIARS. > Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being > "meaningful" or > "political" (as people had come to expect) and have > fun with her music, but > the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) > she was panned by the > critics and fans. > > Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost > count of how many times > I listened to this song recently - still one of my > favourites. The last two > lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever > wanted, was just to come > in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is > what all of us really > want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think > she can say more in one > song, than most people can in an entire career! > > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:16:27 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Compilations > If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it > doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time > with your grand-children! And yet Joni expresses so much praise for Georgia O'Keefe, who worked continually until she was 96. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:19:12 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Compilations - --- hell wrote: > I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' > number > of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the > reasons > for all these compilations? yeah but they're not all being released from her actual label, right? i.e. how would the Rhino release fulfill any contractual obligation to "her" record co? (and I admit I don't even know who her record co is). Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:20:24 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: brain stem, njc I would say there is a good chance she has emotional turmoil over > her husband's sadness and has the emotion of joy over her parents happiness > when around her. I would also say she is experiencing hungar and thirst > right > now but can't express these. I think you are in the vast medical minority with this opinion. The experts who have examined her and testified to all of the courts say she is totally unaware of who is around her. Jerry, who also always appreciates Laura's opinions and pronounced civility ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:26:32 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: brain stem, njc Vince wrote: As much as I disagree with you, I profoundly thank you and value you for your insights into this difficult matter. God bless you. Hi Vince, Thank you. I value your opinion also and understand where you are coming from. The issue of adults lacking cortical functions reminds me of research break throughs we have had here in Little Rock at Arkansas Children's Hospital regarding pain and premature neonates. For years, it was agreed upon that these babies did not experience pain so when procedures were done on them, no anesthesia was given. A really awesome doctor from India is here at Children's and showed otherwise... even though the expression of pain is not visible and typical, the experience of pain is very real. Today anesthesia is given to premies. I think we have a long way to go in understanding issues involving "lower" functions centered in the brain stem. God's blessings to you too Vince. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:31:52 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Compilations I don't quite know the corporate ins & outs, Reprise, Nonesuch and Rhino are all Warner Group imprints aren't they? Does Joni indeed owe them product? I get the impression that these compilations are being done for some reason other than contractual obligation, but I don't know the facts. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of hell Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:39 AM To: JMDL Subject: Compilations I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' number of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the reasons for all these compilations? She's already said (numerous times) that she's no longer writing music, so while it may be annoying to us long-time fans (who already have her entire catalogue), producing these compilations is a way of meeting that obligation, and of perhaps reaching a younger and/or broader audience with these songs. Given the recent covers of her music by The Counting Crows, Diana Krall, kd lang, etc. and the Starbucks releases, I think it's an astute business move - and probably the best time to do it, if she's been considering this for a while. If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time with your grand-children! Just my $0.02 Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:28:35 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: brain stem, njc Jerry wrote: I think you are in the vast medical minority with this opinion. Hi Jerry, Minority, yes, vast... well, that is debatable. If it wasn't for my association with Arkansas Children's Hospital and the pain research going on there, I wouldn't be in the informed minority. Wink. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:31:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: e: FW: Mary Gauthier NJC >The song Kate mentioned, "Our Lady of the Shooting Star" thats the one that was pulling wet stuff outta my eyes just in the CDBaby snippet. But heck I dunno maybe it was PMS!< I have been raving about her for years, em it is definitely not pms & so what if it is then all power to pms... so glad to hear more are 'getting' mary goshay ya'll... les irvin please weigh in as I know you've been listening to mary for a few years too... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:39:38 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: I love this list! (NJC) Even though I am always dozens of digests behind lately, I really do love this list. I offered to pick up the Starbucks CD for John in the UK, and he not only in return sent the UK Word magazine which has a huge story on Joni in it, but also included a surprise CD of Karine Polwart that I am truly loving. I never would have even heard of her without this list! (And that goes for a lot of other wonderful music that I first heard about here.) However, I think I am cursing Les for getting me started on DC++ and subsequently Easytree.org. (Not to mention Richard Flynn who has spent HOURS helping me out with getting started and continues to give of his time troubleshooting everything to do with this.) The generosity here is amazing. Thanks to everyone here for making this the incredible list that it is. Hugs, Ashara, the torrent addicted one P.S. I am wondering if many people will not even recognize me since it's been so long since I've posted a thing! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:10:34 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Terry and HOPE NJC Hi all... I have read with much interest all your views on Terry...death and dying. Terry's parents..I would think like most parents.. have hope that their daughter can be rehabilitated. SHe is NOT brain dead and can be at times responsive. She is living and breathing just like all of us on this list are living and breathing. No artificial means!! There have been just as many doctors on the parents side who have spent time with her and they report that with some therapy's ..speech..physical...she can regain some of her "old self." How much...who knows?? True compassion...latin derivative.. means to sit with.....they have certainly done this hour after hour... what they see if their own flesh and blood..smiling at times...eye contact.( who here has not looked into someone's eyes and known exactly what they were trying to convey without a word uttered??)..joy ...and yes sadness..glimpses of the woman she once was...and a longing to provide for her like in her infant years. BUT MOST OF ALL THEY SEE HOPE. The husband at every turn has tried to smash their hope. It's true... her parents are spiritual and from all accounts.. Terry is too. It's been pointed out here then they should want her to go on to this after life ...IF THEY ARE SUCH STRONG BELIEVERS..after all... isn't this is what being a Christian is all about? No.. I believe it's about living..getting out every ounce of living you can IN THIS LIFE....AND HOPE. C.S. Lewis said: Talk to me about the truth of religion and I'll listen gladly. Talk to me about the duty of religion and I'll listen submissively. BUT DON'T COME TALKING TO ME ABOUT THE CONSOLATIONS OF RELIGION OR I SHALL SUSPECT THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't know really who has the greatest love for Terry....but I do know who has the greatest hope for her. The parents are going to need a miracle right now to get that tube reinserted. Hopefully their is a judge out there who is listening. Bree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:22:28 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Terry and HOPE NJC - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > > Terry's parents..I would think like most parents.. have hope that > their > daughter can be rehabilitated. SHe is NOT brain dead and can be at > times > responsive. She is living and breathing just like all of us on this > list > are living and breathing. No artificial means!! well sort of artificial means...she cannot swallow, and therefore (I think) cannot be, for instance, hand fed by her parents. She has to have the tube. Thats one big difference, to me. But I hear you, and am very much nodding my head...would be easier (i think) if she were not so *lively* in her "persistent vegetative state". Em ps if I'm wrong about the swallowing thing, please let me know..I'm not 100% sure.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:26:26 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: brain stem, njc I appreciate both Jerry and Laura. (ANd nobody sings Judy like Jerry :-) ) But ..Jerry.. I have heard other medical experts say that she at times is responsive. One doctor.. who is highly respected in Laura's community of doctors ..who spent ten hours with her...says that she can be rehabilitated. But see..her husband for the last ten years has put a stop to any rehabilitation or anything movement it that direction. Terry is terribly contracted now and IF he would allowed some therapy.. her contractions would not have been as bad. ALso...there is a nurse who worked with her and said Terry would move her finger for her when asked. I'm thinking the first time the late Christopher Reeve was able to move his finger...It was a big F**&ING deal. I know Christopher could speak...but I wonder what his fate would have been had he not been able to speak? Bree > I would say there is a good chance she has emotional turmoil over > > her husband's sadness and has the emotion of joy over her parents >happiness > > when around her. I would also say she is experiencing hungar and >thirst > > right > > now but can't express these. > >I think you are in the vast medical minority with this opinion. The experts >who have examined her and testified to all of the courts say she is totally >unaware of who is around her. > >Jerry, who also always appreciates Laura's opinions and pronounced civility ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:31:37 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: RE: Prairie Songs Bryan wrote: > Yes, it's the remixed Paprika (perhaps the only reason for us old-timers to > buy the CD), according to a little item in billboard.com today (sorry, don't > have the link). Here's the article from the star-maker machinery behind the popular songs: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050323/music_nm/music_mitchell_dc_2 NEW YORK (Billboard) - Joni Mitchell continues to reshape the context in which her music is presented with a second retrospective, "Songs of a Prairie Girl," due April 26 via Warner Strategic Marketing. The first, "Dreamland," was released last fall and debuted at No. 177 on The Billboard 200. "This collection of songs and photographs is my contribution to Saskatchewan's Centennial celebrations," Mitchell says, referring to the Canadian province from which she hails. "I recommend that you get yourself a hot beverage and stand by the heater as you listen to these musical tales of long, cold winters with a hint of short but glorious summers." Like "Dreamland," the material on "Prairie Girl" was handpicked by Mitchell, who worked closely with the label to design the package. Among such selections as "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and "Raised on Robbery" is a new mix of the song "Paprika Plains" from her 1977 album "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter." Reuters/Billboard Brian in rainy south jersey np:bbc world service Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) Second Time Around Crosby, Stills, and Nash Greatest Hits (Remastered) (Rhino) The successful selling of Crosby, Stills, and Nash as one of rock's first "supergroups" was, above all else, a marketing triumph. The insipid folk trio with a penchant for predictable three-part harmonies were packaged as a brilliant, innovative rock band and sold, no questions asked, to a generation that would go on to make history for a consumerism as voracious as its perceptive powers were small. Think about that, and then give a listen to junk like "Our House," "Wooden Ships," and "Long Time Gone." Or the simpering "Helplessly Hoping"! That, my friends, is a truly awful song, and I'm not kidding. And think about this: CSN are still touring baseball stadiums and large arenas  and yet after 35 years, 7 of the album's 19 songs date back to the group's debut. I mean, even CSN  who couldn't recruit Neil Young fast enough  knew they were in trouble. And speaking of Young, the entire package says much about him. Two of those references come when mentioning that Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young were the group responsible for 1970's Dij` Vu. That he isn't onboard here is no surprise  given the stormy history of Y to CSN. But yank "Ohio," "Helpless," and "Everybody I Love You" from the band's collected works, and what you're left with has the bite of a boomer with dentures. Oh, yeah  "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" and "49 Bye-Byes" were strong, ambitious songs in their day, and Steven Stills was once a talented musician. But CSN needed Y in order to rock, and when it came to Laurel Canyon folk music, Joni Mitchell could compose and play rings around these three. CSN were, when all was said and done, as safe as America wanted the '60s generation to be. That the huge, motley army of outcasts and outlaws bought into the supergroup hype that launched this trio shows how easily the so-called Woodstock Nation was tamed. And that was a real shame. (J.H. Tompkins) http://www.sfbg.com/39/25/x_second_time.html Brian in VERY rainy south jersey np: bbc world service (and I still have no freakin idea how cricket scores get to be the way they are) Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:50:59 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Open note to Joni Mitchell njc Now Straight men... Some cross-dressers ARE straight. Look at Eddie Izzard... Steve p.s. Luv ya Paz! Just stop wearing pink halters! >>> 3/22/2005 7:00:46 PM >>> Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu (one of 10 straight men on the JMDL) 10.4 if we can work out some kind of 3/5 Compromise for Paz. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:31:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: e: FW: Mary Gauthier NJC >The song Kate mentioned, "Our Lady of the Shooting Star" thats the one that was pulling wet stuff outta my eyes just in the CDBaby snippet. But heck I dunno maybe it was PMS!< I have been raving about her for years, em it is definitely not pms & so what if it is then all power to pms... so glad to hear more are 'getting' mary goshay ya'll... les irvin please weigh in as I know you've been listening to mary for a few years too... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:52:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) (now njc) > Brian in VERY rainy south jersey > > np: bbc world service (and I still have no freakin > idea how cricket scores get > to be the way they are) And neither do I (and that's from someone who was on his schools cricket team for a year...) But did you know you could listen to the 'normal' bbc via the web on www.bbc.co.uk/radio Lots of comedy, talkradio (radio 4) and mainstream music. Jamie Zoob Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:54:18 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Terry and HOPE NJC Hi Em... Yes..Terry can swallow and breathe on her own. She has even mouthed words. I believe she has a G tube..but I'm not positive about that. Someone who has mouthed words??!! ANd right now this woman is slowly starving to death. They have cut off all nutrients...pretty scary stuff if you ask me. Bree : > > >. SHe is NOT brain dead and can be at > > times > > responsive. She is living and breathing just like all of us on this > > list > > are living and breathing. No artificial means!! > >well sort of artificial means...she cannot swallow, and therefore (I >think) cannot be, for instance, hand fed by her parents. She has to >have the tube. >Thats one big difference, to me. >But I hear you, and am very much nodding my head...would be easier (i >think) if she were not so *lively* in her "persistent vegetative >state". >Em >ps if I'm wrong about the swallowing thing, please let me know..I'm not >100% sure.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Terry and HOPE NJC I mean I knew she can breathe on her own. But sheesh, it seems if she can be fed with a spoon and she can swallow what she is fed.... then they (the parents) should at least be allowed to hand feed her. Screw the "tubes". You sure she can take nourishment other than a feeding tube? Seems if she can be nourished (fed) without "tubes" then thats a whole 'nuther cans of worms. But then someone could say, well WHY is that a whole nuther can of worms, its just one step farther, etc etc.... Em - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Hi Em... > > Yes..Terry can swallow and breathe on her own. She has even mouthed > words. > I believe she has a G tube..but I'm not positive about that. > > Someone who has mouthed words??!! ANd right now this woman is > slowly > starving to death. They have cut off all nutrients...pretty scary > stuff if > you ask me. > > Bree > > : > > > >. SHe is NOT brain dead and can be at > > > times > > > responsive. She is living and breathing just like all of us on > this > > > list > > > are living and breathing. No artificial means!! > > > >well sort of artificial means...she cannot swallow, and therefore (I > >think) cannot be, for instance, hand fed by her parents. She has to > >have the tube. > >Thats one big difference, to me. > >But I hear you, and am very much nodding my head...would be easier > (i > >think) if she were not so *lively* in her "persistent vegetative > >state". > >Em > >ps if I'm wrong about the swallowing thing, please let me know..I'm > not > >100% sure.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:21:22 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Great post! And a great song from one of my favorite albums. Don't you just love MP3 Players. I am on the road at least 12 hours a week in West Texas and the Hill Country ( I commute 5 minutes) and just love my MP3 Player ( a gift from a women who loves Joni). Peace, Craig NP: Buddy Miller - Universal House of Prayer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hell" To: "JMDL" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:39 AM Subject: Come In From The Cold > Time for some lyric analysis... > > On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player with some Joni songs > (among > other artists) and had time to really listen to the lyrics for a change. > > I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, and how it almost > appears > to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: > > Back in 1957 > We had to dance a foot apart > And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines > Holding their rulers without a heart > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > All we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Obviously those dances she went to as a child were strictly chaperoned! > But > from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very fond memory from her > past. > > We really thought we had a purpose > We were so anxious to achieve > We had hope > The world held promise > For a slave to liberty > Freely I slaved away for something better > And I was bought and sold > And all I ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > At the start of Joni's career, particularly around the time of the > Woodstock > festival the youth were all about "changing the world" and "making a > difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, but she became > another > victim of commercialism in some respects, and that idealism was lost along > the way. She really exposed herself emotionally with Blue, and then > "burned > out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, prompting the retreat to > BC > where most of FTR was written. > > I feel your leg under the table > Leaning into mine > I feel renewed > I feel disabled > By these bonfires in my spine > I don't know who the arsonist was > Which incendiary soul > But all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new > love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in > her > back? > > I am not some stone commission > Like a statue in a park > I am flesh and blood and vision > I am howling in the dark > Long blue shadows of the jackals > Are falling on a pay phone by the road > Oh, all they ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. Could "howling in > the > dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps it's a coyote, or a > Wolf > That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less obvious reference to > the > critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" ready to pounce. She's > also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has evolved as well - she's > not > going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. she's moving, not a > statue. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > (it was so pure) > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > (just a flu with a temperature) > Are you just checking out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > (just a high fever) > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" album, which was also a > tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't quite have the impact > she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but understandable after the > perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something completely different, > although she appears to be second-guessing it a little - maybe a hint of a > mid-life crisis ;o) > > I know we never will be perfect > Never entirely clear > (when the moon shines) > We get hurt and we just panic > And we strike out > Out of fear > (you were only being kind) > I fear the sentence of this solitude > 200 years on hold > (for my loving crime) > Oh and all we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a "pioneer" of woman in > the > music industry (with some justification), and has made some harsh > statements > about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt threatened at times, and > that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems to be a little lonely > out on that limb all by herself... > > When I thought life had some purpose > Then I thought I had some choice > (I was running blind) > And I made some value judgments > In a self-important voice > (I was outa line) > But then absurdity came over me > And I longed to lose control > (into no mind) > Oh all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, with Mingus and/or WTRF? > She also ventured into more politically-charged waters with DED and > CMIARS. > Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being "meaningful" or > "political" (as people had come to expect) and have fun with her music, > but > the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) she was panned by the > critics and fans. > > Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost count of how many > times > I listened to this song recently - still one of my favourites. The last > two > lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever wanted, was just to > come > in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is what all of us really > want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think she can say more in > one > song, than most people can in an entire career! > > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:17:33 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: brain stem, njc Jerry asked: Did you ever work with Hillary on anything? Hi Jerry, No, I haven't directly worked with Hillary on anything, but I have offered to if she decides to run for president. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:27:36 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: brain stem, njc Bree wrote: Terry is terribly contracted now and IF he would allowed some therapy.. her contractions would not have been as bad. Hi Bree, Coincidentally, the lecture at the med school yesterday was on this exact topic/. Terri Schiavo wasn't mentioned by name. We have a huge neuroscience center at the medical school, and I work with the team of researchers who were involved in developing the most currently effective means for paralized patients to walk. Their success has to do with the types of muscle fibers found in muscles. There are fast fatigue and slow fatigue muscle fibers. Paralized patients' muscles will become predominantly the fast fatigue type, and that is why previous attempts to get them to walk, etc. hasn't worked. The Garcia-Rill team has developed ways to prevent the fast fatigue muscle type from predominating and are having remarkable results. They have a patent on this. Speaking of neuroscience... I'm off to the medical school now. It is brain cutting day. This is one of my favorite labs because it is so awesome to see what is under the cerebral cortex. It truly is amazing! One of my professors when I was in medical graduate school made the case for the cerebral cortex being similar to the epidermis. Brain skin. What is below the cerebral cortex is a whole other world. Thank you to all who have gone beyond and donated the brains we will be studying today... you know who you are. Smile. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:29:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Terry and HOPE NJC Bree Mcdonough said: > > Someone who has mouthed words??!! Sorry, Bree. I'm going to challenge you on that. Do you really think all of these doctors and attorneys and judges would agree to her being allowed to die if she could "mouth words?" I'd like to see one credible piece of evidence to prove she can mouth words, other than what someone says that they think she did. BTW, her father has testified in court under oath that he would lie to keep his daughter alive. Jerry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #130 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)