From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #122 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 19 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 122 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- tree museums NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Sacrilege ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni Covered ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Song for sharin', or buy yourself a mando, Lynn ["mike pritchard" ] Aussie Joniphiles [Mark-Leon Thorne ] sacrilege ["David Henderson" ] joni covered ["David Henderson" ] tye dye t-shirts and praying for peace ["David Henderson" ] Down to You??? ["David Henderson" ] RE: I Can't Believe It -- njc [Smurf ] nice article ["David Henderson" ] Pink Moon [JOJOE4456@aol.com] RE: sacrilege ["David Henderson" ] Re: tye dye t-shirts and praying for peace [Dflahm@aol.com] NJC Re: Pink Moon [Bob Muller ] DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) [Gary Z ] RE: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Oh my, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Sacrilege [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) [Gary Z ] Re: NJC Re: Pink Moon [Smurf ] Re: Nice article about TBOS and Dreamland [Randy Remote ] DJRD on CD ["Michael O'Malley" ] Re: Oh my, njc [Garret ] re: Joni Covered ["mia ortlieb" ] What's missing from "Artist's Choice"? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: sacrilege [Catherine McKay ] njc Jet Look what you've done [vince ] Re: sacrilege [jrmco1@aol.com] dc joni fest? [Bill Dollinger ] Prairie Girl Track List? ["Michael O'Malley" ] Re: dc joni fest? [jrmco1@aol.com] Re: Ruth Brown njc [jrmco1@aol.com] Re: Prairie Girl Track List? [Catherine McKay ] Re: njc Jet Look what you've done [Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Sacrilege >Just don't like the song Bob, no matter who does it!< I don't think its sacrilege to not like a song no matter who wrote it but I am curious to know why you don't like it... then I will tell you why I do like it ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:50:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni Covered I love 'amelia' sung by shawn colvin & mary chapin carpenter at the tribute... chill factor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:17:53 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Song for sharin', or buy yourself a mando, Lynn >>I've got a 1913 Gibson F-4 mandolin I'm going to bring to the next Jonifest...will you play it, please, Les? Or maybe I'll go down to Los Angeles and camp out with it at the "Daily Grill" until Joni comes along. Has she ever recorded using mando, Lynn?<< What kind of salad do you prefer Julius? Caesar? mike in bcn npihm - what did Delaware...? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:18:04 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Song for sharin', or buy yourself a mando, Lynn njc >What kind of salad do you prefer Julius? Caesar? >mike in bcn >npihm b what did Delawareb&? I think not. They came to bury Ceasar, not to dress him. bcn ya, mike. - -Julius >>I've got a 1913 Gibson F-4 mandolin I'm going to bring to the next Jonifest...will you play it, please, Les? Or maybe I'll go down to Los Angeles and camp out with it at the "Daily Grill" until Joni comes along. Has she ever recorded using mando, Lynn?<< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:23:54 -0000 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Re: Sacrilege > >Just don't like the song Bob, no matter who does it!< > > I don't think its sacrilege to not like a song no matter who wrote it but > I > am curious to know why you don't like it... then I will tell you why I do > like it Kate I don't necessarily know! I think I just find it twee and cliched and a bit dull. Because it is one of JM's "greatest" I often wonder why I don't like it so much but I can't quite put my finger on it. It was only recently I decided that I don't like it, before then I either pretended to like it or tolerated it. Sorry to be so vague! There are other songs I don't particularly like, some have already been mentioned, but Woodstock is *so* big, I thought I'd share my feelings about it and see what my new friends thought. Ric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:21:07 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Aussie Joniphiles I'm a little behind in the Joni covers CDs from Bob Muller. He recommends that I try to obtain them from someone local so, CALLING ALL AUSSIE JONIPHILES! Are there any Aussies who can help me out with some copies of Bob's Joni covers CDs? Mark in Sydney NP Cat Stevens - The Boy With The Moon and a Star on His Head. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 07:59:22 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: sacrilege It's interesting that several of us dislike the same songs: Ray's Day's Cadillac, Yvette in English and of course, Dancing Clown. Joni's cover of Twisted is just so lame compared to the original and Bette Midler's wonderfully insane cover (out the year before Joni's cover). But for me, I have to say that my ultimate vote has to go to Paprika Plains. It's not just my least favorite Joni tune; it's probably one of my top five worst tunes by a respectable writer ever. That said, isn't it amazing how many tunes our Joni has written over 30 years, and we can only come-up with a handful of duds. Most CDs I buy have 5 or 6 duds on the same disc!! David NP Mary Gauthier Hey, does anybody know what this song is on the radio . . the chorus is something like "You've made a fool of everyone," kind of 70s/McCartney sounding . . I've been hearing it every morning for about a week, but God forbid a NYC radio station ever tell you the name and artist of a song. Ugh. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:05:15 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: joni covered I am in complete agreement with Jerry here. All three of these women made these wonderful songs their own and that really puts them over the top for me. >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:06:45 -0500 >From: Jerry Notaro >Subject: Re: Joni Covered > Hi gang. I don't know if this has been a thread before or not but I was > just curious if any polls on Joni covers have been taken. What are > people's favourite covers of Joni songs? > > I'll throw my 2 cents worth in. For a faithful recreation, you can't go > past Wynonna's, "Help Me". I love PM Dawn's, "Night In The City" and as > a gay man, Kind of Like Spitting's, "The Last Time I saw Richard". > > What does everyone else think? >Mine: >Bonnie Raitt - That Song About the Midway >Barbra Streisand - I Don't Know Where I Stand >Diana Krall - A Case of You >Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:18:17 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: tye dye t-shirts and praying for peace LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL GARRET SAID: "My partner is convinced we're all self-indulgent gay guys and lesbians in tye dye t-shirts who stand in cricles holding hands and praying for peace;-)" My partner, my mother, all of my friends . . . everyone only knows two Joni songs - Circle Game and Both Sides Now. Regarding the JMDL, my sister said to me, seriously, "What do you discuss? Vietnam and Watergate? Doesn't that hippie shit get boring?" I told my therapist that Joni was my favorite artist, and he said, "So you like music that expresses sadness above all else. Hm. Do you ever listen to anything contemporary?" Spreading the gospel is just so darned difficult! Still, I tread onward . . . David NP Mary Gauthier, Mercy Now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: sacrilege - --- David Henderson wrote: > That said, isn't it amazing how many tunes our Joni > has written over 30 > years, and we can only come-up with a handful of > duds. I just did the math -- I'm exhausted now! -- and figured out that one can now say "over 40 years" with regard to Joni's songwriting and performing. There are Joni songs I like less than others, of course, but many times I've become wild about songs ("In France They Kiss on Main Street") or albums ("Hejira") years after I've given up on them. - --Smurf NPIMH: "L'amour, Mama, not cheap display" as performed by Mary P. at Jonifest 2004! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:33:12 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Down to You??? BOB WROTE: """Wow, Ruth...Down To You??? That's one of my favorite Joni songs and a song that I would say is "essential Joni" or the essence of what Joni is all about...that is, sharp unique cliche-free lyrical imagery, and composition more than song. Not that I'm saying you have to like it, but could I press you to detail just what it is that causes you to DETEST it? I'd be interested to know.""" I agree with Bob on this one Ruth. I never expected anyone to pick this one, but to each her own of course. I find Down To You mesmerizing . . . the whole feeling of the dawn after a night that refuses to die feels so real . . . that feeling that you cannot wake-up from darkness . . . Beth Orton's Central Reservation creates the same feeling. There's a high drama to it that I loved as a teenager, and there's a raw, naked honesty about it that I love as an adult. This is my favorite verse: In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize Old friends seem indifferent You must have brought that on Old bonds have broken down Love is gone Ooh, love is gone Written on your spirit this sad song Love is gone David NP Sunday in the Park with George - I'm leaving now for Wall to Wall Sondheim at Symphony Space!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 05:38:05 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: RE: I Can't Believe It -- njc Muller wrote: << http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007UMMHC/qid=1111182571/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-9500611-9187003?v=glance&s=music&n=507846 >> Well, from the cover photo it looks like Joni finally got that goddamn river to skate away on that she's been screeching about all these years. - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:52:31 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: nice article >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:19:48 -0800 (PST) >From: Brian Gross >Subject: Nice article about TBOS and Dreamland >http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/03/17/1110913717067.html?oneclick=tr ue >Writing in her own blood, but for deaf ears >By Warwick McFadyen >March 19, 2005 Thank you for this. It's one of the most interesting articles I've ever read about Joni. Joni says, "It's a bad time to be right." LOL How can you not love and respect this beautiful, intelligent, pig-headed woman? David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:50:31 EST From: JOJOE4456@aol.com Subject: Pink Moon Blue or Pink Moon at least 3 reasons please JJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:15:24 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: sacrilege Hmmm . . . I don't like the sound of "over 40 years." I don't care how old Joni is, but I am getting concerned about how old I am. he he SMURF SAID: >>>There are Joni songs I like less than others, of >>>course, but many times I've become wild about songs >>>("In France They Kiss on Main Street") or albums >>>("Hejira") years after I've given up on them. So true, part of why I feel lucky to have fallen in love/awe of an artist with such a diverse range. I bought my first copy of Blue during THOSL era, and I didn't care for it, too 'folkie.' But I bought that new invention - the cassette tape - of it in 1982 and fell madly in love with it less than halfway through the first side. I guess I was just at a different place. When I bought Mingus, I swear my heart broke. I thought it was the most boring album I had ever heard, and I have rarely felt so disappointed in something in my life. I think I was mad at Joni for about two years. (I was 19. I got very mad very easily back then.) Eons later in 2000 or 2001, I heard God Must Be A Boogie Man in a cafe downtown while I was waiting for a friend, and I thought, this ain't so bad. And now it's a favorite. Mingus and FTR have the same feel to me - sparkling and crystalline like the bright sun on a hardwood floor in the morning. David >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Smurf [mailto:smurfadelica@yahoo.com] >>>Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:29 AM >>>To: David Henderson; Joni Mitchell List >>>Subject: Re: sacrilege >>> >>> >>> >>>--- David Henderson wrote: >>> >>>> That said, isn't it amazing how many tunes our Joni >>>> has written over 30 >>>> years, and we can only come-up with a handful of >>>> duds. >>> >>>I just did the math -- I'm exhausted now! -- and >>>figured out that one can now say "over 40 years" with >>>regard to Joni's songwriting and performing. >>> >>>There are Joni songs I like less than others, of >>>course, but many times I've become wild about songs >>>("In France They Kiss on Main Street") or albums >>>("Hejira") years after I've given up on them. >>> >>>--Smurf >>> >>>NPIMH: "L'amour, Mama, not cheap display" as performed >>>by Mary P. at Jonifest 2004! >>> >>> >>> >>>__________________________________ >>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >>>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:39:53 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: tye dye t-shirts and praying for peace "Dear, Doctor, I think that it's you instead." LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 07:12:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Pink Moon My answer is Blue Moon, because: 1. Blue Moon is an older song than Pink Moon, and with age comes wisdom. 2. Joni mentions a "Blue Moon" (Night Ride Home) but makes no mention of a Pink Moon, though she does mention Pink Electric Trees, Nuns, Lions, Fins (on Ray's Dad's Cadillac), Roses, Balls, and of course the Pink Hotel in BYT. 3. Pink Moon < 20 covers, Blue Moon > 500 covers, including The Marcels cover which totally kicks serious butt. And there you see my reasons three. Bob NP: Red House Painters, "Drop" JOJOE4456@aol.com wrote: Blue or Pink Moon at least 3 reasons please Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:16:08 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) I'm hoping there might be someone on the list who is knowledgeable about DVD recorders. I recently purchased a DVD recorder which records with DVDr - (minus) discs. (as opposed to DVDr + (plus) discs. I have recently transferred a couple of my VHS tapes to DVD, and sent some copies to a friend, who subsequently could not play them on his machine. Now I'm worried that I'm using a format that is not compatible with most DVD players. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return this machine soon. Thanks so much! Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:30:58 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) Someone with greater technical expertise will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but I have had success converting DVD minus R discs by copying the Video_TS folders onto my hard drive and burning a new DVD+ disc. Your friends could try this. At worst, they'd only get a coaster. That said, I would be interested in the definitive answer to the original question. Much of what I find through Google isn't terribly informative. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Gary Z Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:16 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) I'm hoping there might be someone on the list who is knowledgeable about DVD recorders. I recently purchased a DVD recorder which records with DVDr - (minus) discs. (as opposed to DVDr + (plus) discs. I have recently transferred a couple of my VHS tapes to DVD, and sent some copies to a friend, who subsequently could not play them on his machine. Now I'm worried that I'm using a format that is not compatible with most DVD players. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return this machine soon. Thanks so much! Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:54:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) My DVD Recorder is plus, my dvd burner is minus. Talk about confusing! So much depends on the software of the player, not the recorder. Plus is supposed to be the most compatible. I have found that the cheapest Apex players seem to play everything. Compatibilty becomes an even bigger issue when you start duplicating. and unless you have burned or dubbed and played it in a specific player, with the same brand of media, you will never know for sure if it, mor where it, will play. Jerry Gary Z said: > I'm hoping there might be someone on the list who is knowledgeable about > DVD recorders. I recently purchased a DVD recorder which records with > DVDr - (minus) discs. (as opposed to DVDr + (plus) discs. I have > recently transferred a couple of my VHS tapes to DVD, and sent some > copies to a friend, who subsequently could not play them on his > machine. Now I'm worried that I'm using a format that is not compatible > with most DVD players. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the > DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is > better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, > so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to > go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return > this machine soon. > > Thanks so much! > > Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:00:48 +0100 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) Gary Z schrieb: > Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the > DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is > better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, > so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to > go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return > this machine soon. Hi Gary, I have recently bought an external (USB) DVD burner and a DVB-T USB TV card for my laptop and started using it as a VCR. So now I happily record digitally from TV. It records in mpg format directly. I then edit out the ads (if necessary) and burn the stuff to DVD discs. I don't bother making "real" DVDs with menus etc. as my DVD player that is hooked to my regular TV set will play them anyway. As I had no idea about +/- formats as well, I just bought a couple of different discs to experiment. I bought some rewritables which saves me from creating a stack of coasters :)) Then a friend of mine asked me to record a movie from TV, and I added another movie to the disc. She has a newer DVD player than I do. She then told me she could only see one of the two files listed in the file browser and thus only watch that one movie. The other one wasn't shown in the listing. So I checked for myself, equipped with a stack of different DVDs. I found out that her DVD player would only play + (plus) discs correctly. It obviously had trouble reading the index files on - (minus) discs - it always showed only one file, no matter how many were on the disc. So now I have bought some more + discs although my own player reads all formats. Besides the format issue: I LOVE recording digitally and wish this would have existed 20 years ago so I wouldn't have to worry how to make DVDs from my crappy old video tapes which are starting to fall apart. But at least I now can record anything new straight to mpg. Kraut TV anyone? ;) moni ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:44:57 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Oh my, njc Garret wrote: My partner is convinced we're all self-indulgent gay guys and lesbians in tye dye t-shirts who stand in cricles holding hands and praying for peace;-) Oh my... looking at the green tie-dye t-shirt I'm wearing, thinking about how I'm going to stand and hold hands in a circle today and pray for serenity at the one o'clock AA meeting. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:53:01 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Sacrilege Hi Ya'll, No least favorite Joni song here. I have undying love for them all. If I was to say I had a least favorite Joni song, and then play it, I would catch some undeniable beauty in it and wonder why I ever said that. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:29:15 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) Hi Gary- Is it a minus? I think it's meant to be a dash: DVD-R. Maybe not, anyway, I have a Panasonic dvd recorder (stand alone, part of my video system, not computer) that records on dvd-r, and they will play back on my unit, but not on others unless you go through a 'finalizing' process that takes about 3 minutes. DVD-R are supposedly more compatable with other units than DVD+R. I'm not sure whether you are talking about a stand-alone unit or a computer peripheral. These guys have some info about the various formats: http://www.cdrom2go.com/optical_media/which-dvd.asp They also sell bulk cd and dvd media. I've had good luck with the Taiyo Yuden, also the Memorex from the store seem to work well (though I would prefer Maxell if I could find them). I bought some cheaper ones that failed about 20% of the time. You might want to experiment with different brands. Here's an article, "All dvd's not created equal": http://www.cdrom2go.com/tech-guy-articles/3-4-05-a.asp I would like to get a dvd burner and some editing software, but I really need to upgrade my computer first (Windows 98!). Another thought: before you return the unit, try them on more than just your friend's player. Maybe his is the one brand that's not compatable with yours. Hope this helps. RR Gary Z wrote: > I'm hoping there might be someone on the list who is knowledgeable about > DVD recorders. I recently purchased a DVD recorder which records with > DVDr - (minus) discs. (as opposed to DVDr + (plus) discs. I have > recently transferred a couple of my VHS tapes to DVD, and sent some > copies to a friend, who subsequently could not play them on his > machine. Now I'm worried that I'm using a format that is not compatible > with most DVD players. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the > DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is > better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, > so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to > go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return > this machine soon. > > Thanks so much! > > Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:38:10 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: DVD R - Plus or Minus (NJC) Hi Randy and all - Thanks everyone for your input on this. My understanding is that this format is minus, as opposed to plus. It appears that when I make a DVD, when I stop recording, it finalizes automatically. I use non-rewritable discs, because they are less expensive, so I can't re-record over them once I've recorded something. I've been using Sony DVD-R 120 min/4.7gb DVDs. They play back perfectly on my machine and I'm very happy with the recordings I've made, but I was hoping to be able to share some of my recordings. I have a vast library of old stuff I want to transfer from VHS to DVD (the recorder I bought does this) but if I'm going to have a hard time sharing these recordings with others, that doesn't make me very happy. Moni - you sound like you are WAY ahead of me and much more knowledgeable than I am. I wish I had your knowledge of these things. I guess I need to hire a tutor to help me figure out this stuff, though I admit, I'm not real good at learning this new technology. I've just had my computer rebuilt, and it is supposed to copy, edit, and do just about everything with CDs and DVDs. And I can't even figure out how to play a DVD on my computer yet!! Anyway, thanks everyone for responding. I'll keep trying to figure this out. Best, Gary Randy Remote wrote: >Hi Gary- >Is it a minus? I think it's meant to be a dash: DVD-R. Maybe not, >anyway, I have a Panasonic dvd recorder (stand alone, part of my >video system, not computer) that records on dvd-r, and they >will play back on my unit, but not on others unless you go through >a 'finalizing' process that takes about 3 minutes. >DVD-R are supposedly more compatable with other units than >DVD+R. I'm not sure whether you are talking about a stand-alone >unit or a computer peripheral. These guys have some info about the >various formats: >http://www.cdrom2go.com/optical_media/which-dvd.asp >They also sell bulk cd and dvd media. I've had good luck with the >Taiyo Yuden, also the Memorex from the store seem to work well >(though I would prefer Maxell if I could find them). >I bought some cheaper ones that failed about 20% of the time. You >might want to experiment with different brands. Here's an article, "All >dvd's not created equal": >http://www.cdrom2go.com/tech-guy-articles/3-4-05-a.asp >I would like to get a dvd burner and some editing software, but I >really need to upgrade my computer first (Windows 98!). >Another thought: before you return the unit, try them on more than >just your friend's player. Maybe his is the one brand that's not compatable >with yours. >Hope this helps. >RR > >Gary Z wrote: > > > >>I'm hoping there might be someone on the list who is knowledgeable about >>DVD recorders. I recently purchased a DVD recorder which records with >>DVDr - (minus) discs. (as opposed to DVDr + (plus) discs. I have >>recently transferred a couple of my VHS tapes to DVD, and sent some >>copies to a friend, who subsequently could not play them on his >>machine. Now I'm worried that I'm using a format that is not compatible >>with most DVD players. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of the >>DVDr plus and minus contoversy who can shed some light on whether it is >>better to work with minus or plus discs? I'm really new at this stuff, >>so would appreciate any thoughts regarding which is the better way to >>go. If the minus format is really not the way to go, I need to return >>this machine soon. >> >>Thanks so much! >> >>Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:40:39 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC Re: Pink Moon - --- Bob Muller wrote: > My answer is Blue Moon, because: > <> > > 2. Joni mentions a "Blue Moon" (Night Ride Home) Joni also changes the words to "Richard" on "T'long" to, "go look at your eyes, they're two blue moons," which is probably my favorite of her post-recording lyric changes. However, Bob, I think the lister (Hi, Jojoe) is asking which is the better album: "Blue" or "Pink Moon." I don't know "PM," so I can't vote. - --Smurf NP: "Impossible Dream" by Patty Griffin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:45:50 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Nice article about TBOS and Dreamland Interesting article, especially the Nietzsche quote, which helps make more sense out of 'Stimulants' which always kind of puzzled me. As for: > The title, The Beginning of Survival, is taken from a letter (reproduced in the > liner notes) by a native-American Indian, Chief Seattle, supposedly written to > the government in the 1800s. The validity of the letter, and its authorship, > have been questioned. Not just questioned, completely debunked. As the author said, maybe to Joni that is immaterial to what she wanted to say. I think it's inclusion is more indicative of her isolation...had she shown it to a few more people, or gotten a fact-checker, maybe someone would've caught the mistake, as it's fairly widely known. The messages in these songs are great, I'm totally in tune with that aspect. It's not her best work, though, on a musical level. The inventiveness, melodic, and harmonic content of these compositions, not to mention the production, pale in comparison to much of her other work. IMO. That's part of why they didn't fly, not because of the era. The 80's songs got more exposure (via MTV) than her earlier stuff. RR > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/03/17/1110913717067.html?oneclick=true ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:48:22 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: sacrilege David Henderson wrote: > IHey, does anybody know what this song is on the radio . . the chorus is > something like "You've made a fool of everyone," kind of 70s/McCartney > sounding . . I've been hearing it every morning for about a week Is it Sexy Sadie from The Beatles white album? Lennon's disillusioned slam on the Maharishi? Sexy Sadie, what have you done? You made a fool of everyone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:47:39 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: DJRD on CD Richard said: ``I finally got DJRD on Compact Disc and I must say I love it as I've never loved it before. No getting up to turn over the records! I think my twenty-two year old self just wasn't ready for it. (Though my 21-year-old self wore out the groves on Hejira.) I can't really articulate why it seems new to me, but it does.`` Me: I hear you Richard. I was hesitant to fork out for DJRD when I upgraded my Joni vinyl, it was low on my list, but now it counts among my top 5 Joni albums. I love this disc because the music and singing is perhaps the most free-flowing, relaxed and open of all her work. It foreshadows her dive into Mingus, but is much more accesible. It has a very hip feel to it, and is also the only Joni album that really rocks, after C&S. Think Cotton Avenue, Talk To Me, DJRD, Dreamland, Tenth World. There are great currents and breezes blowing and flowing all throughout this music, like on no other album. It seems to be ever opening and expanding. The ``chords of inquiry`` and spacey vocals of the Overture, are among the most beautiful in her work. The jazz riffs, strings and horns that punctuate the music on this album blend in so seamlessly. Her guitar work is as brilliant as ever, accompanied by Jaco's amazing bass. The songs have aged well. Paprika Plains, whatever one thinks of the central orchestral section, is one of Joni's great works. The music reflects the lyrics so beautifully and it aslo features one of Joni's great vocal perfomances. Jericho is one of the great love songs, while Off Night Backstreet is perhaps her most bittersweet (and some say, sexy) take on love uncertain in the shadows. Silky Veils is a heart rending finale about dreams and regrets of impossible love. Like yourself, in my early twenties this album sounded a little too experimental, dark and dissonant for my tastes. Today however it feels very comfortable, like home. I have always loved the line, ``If you got no place special, well my dear, you just go no place special.`` Words to live by. Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:07:13 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Oh my, njc Quoting LCStanley7@aol.com: > > Garret wrote: > > My partner is convinced we're all self-indulgent gay guys and lesbians in > tye dye t-shirts who stand in cricles holding hands and praying for > peace;-) > > > > Oh my... looking at the green tie-dye t-shirt I'm wearing, thinking about > how I'm going to stand and hold hands in a circle today and pray for > serenity > at the one o'clock AA meeting. > But in reality Laura he's probably just jealous that he can't carry off the tie-dye look. GARRET NP- REM, Losing My Religion (live) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:04:46 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni Covered <> My top three: 1. Bonnie Raitt - "That Song About the Midway" (for all the same reasons others have mentioned) 2. Terry Gonda - "Both Sides Now" (as sick as I am of BSN, I fell in love instantly with this version - it is a very heartfelt rendition) 3. Roger McGuinn - "Dreamland" (there is something about this song that I can't quite put my finger on...very intriguing and unique) And...as for my least favorite Joni track? Well, I have to vote for "Snakes and Ladders" - Everything about this song annoys me, the music, the singing (Don Henley included), the lyrics, the rhythm, you name it. I find it obnoxious. Even "Dancing Clown" beats this song. I have to say boo to all of you who voted for "Sex Kills" - Dark, disturbing, truthful, in-your-face, and Historic! Even the slackey-twang of the low guitar strings adds a distubing dimension to the music - very Stravinsky-like. I think Joni is way ahead of us on this song... it will just take us awhile to catch up. Mia - amazed that she just fetched $34.00 for an old Snuffalupagus stuffed animal doll on EBay. People are nuts and will buy just about anything. I've noticed things seem to sell better if you add the word "Vintage" to the description. (what exactly is "Vintage," anyhow?) Even "Haunted" items seem to sell, LOL! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:06:57 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: What's missing from "Artist's Choice"? I noticed there's no Annie Ross on the Starbucks' disc "Joni Mitchell- Artist's Choice". ~What up~ with that? In my opinion Annie Ross was an influence because she: * set words to jazz * put humor in the stories * was the only woman doing this (arguably) * crammed a super-natural number of syllables into a line Sounds familiar doesn't it? Anyway, if you haven't heard Annie Ross' "Farmer's Market", you haven't heard the spiritual model for "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines." Joni's cited Annie's "Cloudburst" as a great song that's nearly impossible to sing. Like a native American elder, I'm taking pleasure in telling the old stories. Amen, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:30:10 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC Re: Pink Moon Smurf wrote: Oh, OK...I didn't read it that way. Anyway, how could cast a non-Blue vote? I don't know PM either, so there's your answer. Blue it is. Next question? Bob NP: Diana Krall, "East of the Sun (And West of the Moon)" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:09:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: sacrilege It's by a group named Jet. I think it's called "Look what you've done." Randy Remote wrote:David Henderson wrote: > IHey, does anybody know what this song is on the radio . . the chorus is > something like "You've made a fool of everyone," kind of 70s/McCartney > sounding . . I've been hearing it every morning for about a week Is it Sexy Sadie from The Beatles white album? Lennon's disillusioned slam on the Maharishi? Sexy Sadie, what have you done? You made a fool of everyone Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:35:25 -0500 From: vince Subject: njc Jet Look what you've done Catherine McKay wrote: >It's by a group named Jet. I think it's called "Look what you've done." > >Randy Remote wrote:David Henderson wrote: > > > > Catherine, Thank you! I could not identify the group. It is clearly a rip off of Sexie Sadie (see below) Vince Take my photo off the wall If it just won't sing for you 'Cause all that's left has gone away And there's nothing there for you to prove Oh, look what you've done You've made a fool of everyone Oh well, it seems likes such fun Until you lose what you had won ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:43:08 -0500 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: sacrilege Interesting, David. True story: when I was 19 and a freshman in college, circa '79, I heard Blue for the first time and had my very foundation rocked like never before. Then I heard C&S and I started to get antsy. It was okay, and head and shoulders above everything else going on at the time... Let me take that back, there was awesome Joan Armatrading going on and Bonnie Raitt was hitting her stride... But anyway, after hearing C&S I decided to cut my losses and listen to new Joni no more. I was scared shitless that I would be painting my own portrait of a disappointment if I had to listen to more digressions from her Blue themes and 'feel.' (Maybe the dulcimer did it, I don't know). Such was my reverence for my beloved Blue. I didn't recover my nerve until Hejira! There's so much time to make up everywhere I turn/time I have wasted on the way. Now I love it all, without reservation or purpose of evasion. I wake up and every morning smacks of Chelsea and I'm excited for yet another day to explore her oeuvre more. One shining facet of her genius is that she makes me want to be a better man. - -Julius >When I bought Mingus, I swear my heart broke. I thought it was the most >boring album I had ever heard, and I have rarely felt so disappointed in >something in my life. I think I was mad at Joni for about two years. (I >was 19. I got very mad very easily back then.) ... >David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:08:18 -0500 From: Bill Dollinger Subject: dc joni fest? Richard Flynn and I were discussing how great it would be to have a mini joni fest in dc. I know we had mentioned this before but don't think anything was moving along. I know a great cafe that would host it, if people are interested, let's discuss. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:18:07 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Prairie Girl Track List? Actually, when we look at the catalogues of some of the great pop and jazz vocalists of the past, we have all possible permutations of their greatest hits, very best of, very very best of, essential hits of, golden hits of, complete hits of, etc., etc. So why should we begrudge this of Joni ? I think she has every right to remarket her work as she sees fit. In fact the compilations seem to be doing fairly well, according to Amazon's Joni popular hits list. In fact, this got me musing as to what Prairie Girl could look like. I think someone already did this exercise in a previous post, but here's my best guess: Urge For Going That Song About the Midway Little Green Let the Wind Carry Me Song for Sharon Refuge of the Roads Paprika Plains Moon at the Window Unchained Melody Cherokee Louise Ray's Dad's Cadillac Harlem in Havana We'd still be missing a few tunes, so maybe we could add Sistobel Lane, Raised on Robbery, and Shadows and Light And of course, there could be surprises like Eastern Rain or Carnival in Kenora! Anyone care to up the ante ? ;-) Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft. SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:35:29 -0500 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: dc joni fest? You're in DC, Bill? Coulda sworn you were a West Coastie. - -Julius - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Dollinger To: JMDL List Sent: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:08:18 -0500 Subject: dc joni fest? Richard Flynn and I were discussing how great it would be to have a mini joni fest in dc. I know we had mentioned this before but don't think anything was moving along. I know a great cafe that would host it, if people are interested, let's discuss. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:54:37 -0500 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: Ruth Brown njc Sherelle wrote, in part: >I am just sad that I am not as familiar with her work as I should be. For goodness sake! She was inducted into the Hall of Fame! >My goal for today is to learn more about her and show her the love I know she deserves! I'm with you in that I think she was a >little before my time as well. Thank you for your interest and kind words, Sherelle. I can't resist posting this despite its length re: Ruth Brown: Lightning in a Bottle Bravely Belts Out R & B http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=6560 By mark leiren-young Publish Date: 25-Nov-2004 TORONTO--R & B just may have been named after Ruth Brown. "That's what they tell me," she said. The septuagenarian singer touched a finger to two gold-leaf initial pins on her black blouse--an R and a B that she got as a Christmas gift from Bonnie Raitt. "Could be Bonnie Raitt, Ruth Brown, rhythm and blues, really brave..." When she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1983, Brown was honoured as "the first rhythm-and-blues singer. Every black woman before her was either a jazz, blues, or gospel vocalist. Ruth Brown was all of those, with the added element of rhythm." Brown is one of more than 50 stars of Lightning in a Bottle--a concert documentary blended with blues history--that was shot by Antoine Fuqua (Training Day) at Salute to the Blues, a benefit concert produced by Martin Scorsese at New York's Radio City Music Hall last February. Sitting in a hotel room, Brown said she was delighted to be at September's Toronto International Film Festival to promote the movie, which opens on Friday (November 26) in Vancouver. "It's important," she explained. "And I'm really grateful to be a part of this because I've been doing this music since I was 21 years old. I'm now 76 years of age. The music has been so good--people are still dancing to the songs that I did 50 years ago. You know what I'm saying? So to see this put on film... I'm proud to be sitting in that picture with B. B. King and Buddy Guy and the Neville Brothers and Robert Lockwood." For Brown, the concert was especially meaningful because a few years ago she was told she'd never sing again. "In 2000, I had a stroke. I lost all of my power of speech. They said I was never going to sing, maybe. I'm still singing. Now I'm back, a little bit at a time. I'm sitting down; I have to sit down to do it because [in] some areas I don't remember the lyrics after all these years. But the fact is that somebody lied; I'm singing again. And right now they tell me I'm singing better than I've ever been in my life. I know what I'm singing about now." Brown--who has a Grammy and a Tony to her credit--was the first woman signed to Atlantic Records, back in the late 1940s. "At that same time I was working in theatres and I met Frankie Laine. And he named me Miss Rhythm because of my swingin' attitude." Brown's memories of her early touring days are worth a movie of their own. "I came out at a time where most of the music was staged in the southern states, and during those times--we're talking about late '40s, early '50s--it was really, really bad in the South. Most places I could not eat. There was no place that I could stay. A lot of times I was taken to jail because I was in the wrong car, and I had to prove that I hadn't stolen the car. There was a couple of times that the white knights burned my car. I went to jail for what they called 'reckless driving': going 40 miles in a 35-mile-an-hour area. You know what I'm saying?" When Brown played shows in the American South, the audience was always segregated. "A lot of times when we performed in auditoriums, there was a balcony and people on the main floor. That way the white spectators were upstairs. Sometimes it was the other way around: they were on the ground floor. Now sometimes, when we performed in a warehouse where there was cotton or tobacco still in there, in that case there was, like, a rope between the races, a rope like a clothesline. And there would be a card on one side that would say 'Colored' and one side it would say 'White'. "But there were many times that we were on the stage doing what we were doing--the music was so overpowering that both races was enjoying that music." Brown grinned broadly at the memory. "They forgot that rope, started dancing, and were enjoying themselves so much that the police would come up and stop [the show]. Took my microphone: 'Stop. Put the lights up,' whatever. 'This is over, because you're dancing too close together.' "So if they [viewers] get any idea about this music from this film, they have to understand that even then this music was important because it was the first time that the races were under the same roof together. No matter what your thoughts were, it was about the music." And for Ruth Brown, it always will be. "I'm finally old enough to sing the blues." - -end- - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:22:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Prairie Girl Track List? Michael O'Malley wrote: "Actually, when we look at the catalogues of some of the great pop and jazz vocalists of the past, we have all possible permutations of their greatest hits, very best of, very very best of, essential hits of, golden hits of, complete hits of, etc., etc. So why should we begrudge this of Joni ?" Yeah, but usually they're spaced out over quite a few years, and the artist is *ulp* dead. "In fact, this got me musing as to what Prairie Girl could look like. I think someone already did this exercise in a previous post, but here's my best guess: [...] And of course, there could be surprises like Eastern Rain or Carnival in Kenora!" And, speaking of Kenora, did you know that there is Kenora in so-far-west-Ontario-it's-almost-Manitoba http://www.city.kenora.on.ca/index.html, but there is also Canora in Saskatchewan (named for Canadian Northern Railway) http://www.canora.com/ , "home of the best-tasting municipal water in Canada". Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:38:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc Jet Look what you've done Well, despite being young lads in their early 20s, their main musical influences seem to be class rockers like the Beatles, the Who, the Stones etc., so is it rip-off or is it tribute? Who knows? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, but even the voice sounds Beatlish to me. Found this at their website, http://www.jettheband.com/band/: "Their name is on loan from Paul McCartney's frazzled post-Beatles peak from 1973, whilst their debut E.P. 'Dirty Sweet' (Rubber Records) took it's name from T-Rex, and in acoustic highlight 'Move On' had the song The Faces were too hungover to write. But then that's what happens if the first album you ever heard was 'Abbey Road.' My parents had some bad records, explains Chris. But that one always stood out as great. I'd sit there banging on these cushions with a pair of chopsticks playing 'Mean Mr. Mustard.' " vince wrote: Catherine McKay wrote: >It's by a group named Jet. I think it's called "Look what you've done." > >Randy Remote wrote:David Henderson wrote: > > > > Catherine, Thank you! I could not identify the group. It is clearly a rip off of Sexie Sadie (see below) Vince Take my photo off the wall If it just won't sing for you 'Cause all that's left has gone away And there's nothing there for you to prove Oh, look what you've done You've made a fool of everyone Oh well, it seems likes such fun Until you lose what you had won Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #122 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)