From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #116 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, March 15 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 116 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Thunderhead of Judgement, or Patience, my dears! (njc) [Justalittlebreen@] Re: Rosie on Joni [Jerry Notaro ] HOMOSEXUAL HUMOR, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Pippin NJC [Jerry Notaro ] joni discussed in new book of poetry [Douglas Cooke ] Re: HOMOSEXUAL HUMOR, njc [Randy Remote ] Re: reproduction rights NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: photos, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Thunderhead of Judgement, or Patience, my dears! (njc) ["Donna Binkle] Sharon Stone's Bare Breasts On the JMDL -- njc [Smurf > I love that -- and what a contrast there would be in (at least) parts of this country. If two or three people lined up in a random place, they would be in danger of being pushed aside with a brusque "Get the f**k outta my way." When I moved here (San Francisco) fifteen years ago, I was surprised to see that people would sort of informally line up at a bus stop -- *some* people would, but others were, and are, apparently queue-blind, utterly ignoring the line and plowing through people to get a good seat. Lately, I've been turning into a coot -- it was inevitable, I'll be intering my latest possibly forties in April -- and I make scenes in public, particularly on buses or at bus stops. A couple of weeks ago, I was on a crowded bus with a friend when a trio of youths, they looked 12 or 13, got on and were making their way to the back when the bus lurched and one of the kids fell partly on a seated passenger, a grown man in his 30s; the latter started up with the kid, and they started the schoolyard escalation thing. The kid couldn't back down, I suppose, because his friends were watching to see what he'd do. After a minute of this, I put on my full-throated high school teacher's voice and said, "Why don't we *all* pretend we're grownups?" It had the desired effect --several people, including the friend I was with, appauded, and the "grownup" got off the bus at the next stop. I'm fully aware that I get away with this sort of stuff partly because I'm 6'6" tall and weigh 175-185 (okay, so I get marked absent if I turn sideways). This can also work against me, as I often look heartier than I feel, but I usually tend to have a benign expression. On the rare occasion when I'm not feeling benign -- Robert says that he can see the thunderhead of judgement gathering in my gaze -- and someone doesn't take a hint, I tend to get scarier than I intend. The day after the previously described event on a bus, I was feeling particularly unwell, and approached a bus kiosk not far from my home. The standard model here has three seats, and a youngish woman (she was definitely not a child, in her 20s or 30s) was sitting in the middle one, her purse on one seat, a bottle of juice on the other. I stood and glared at her, which she blissfully ignored. Then a man of about 80, walking with a cane, came up to the kiosk and looked balefully at the underused seats, shrugged, walked on, and stood nearby. (This is where Robert would be saying "uh oh".) That was it. "Excuse me," I said. She continued staring into space. "EXCUSE ME MADAM," I said. Finally jolted out her reveries, she said, "What?" "Is that your juice?" Having noticed too late that I was in thunderhead mode, she now was in a panic -- she looked at the bottle of juice as if it had just sprung randomly into existence, and then back at me. "Miss, *is* that *your* *juice*?" "Yes." Finally, a concession that she was not alone in the universe! "Then perhaps you'd like to pick *it* and your purse *up* so that if, say, for example, *that* gentleman [who was gesturing "Hey, don't include me in this, you're the crazy person..."] or, say, *I* want to sit down, then we can?" Finally realizing what I was getting at, she grabbed up her belongings and stood next to the old man. Exasperated, I said, "I didn't mean *you* couldn't sit, I just wanted you to *share*." But it was too late -- she's probably afraid to sit even at home now, the poor thing. A last thought on patience is: How quickly we adjust to the hgh speed of modern technology! Twenty years ago, Joan Rivers told lots of jokes about Liz Taylor's getting fat, one of which was that Liz was the only person who could stand looking at a microwave oven and scream, "Hurry up!!" I do that now. Love to all, and patience, my bunnies -- Thor says so! Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:19:27 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rosie on Joni > Somehow, I wound up on Rosie O'Donnell's blog at onceadored.blogpot.com. She > rants and raves in an odd free-form style about many topics, and if you scroll > down past her observations about Kirstie Alley,Condi Rice, etc., there is a > nice little section where she talks about and quotes Joni's Sire of Sorrow. > In fact, the blog name, "onceadored" comes from said song. It's kind of cute > how she credits Joni and in parenthesis says "(all bow)". I appreciate her > reverence for Joni, though the rest of her stuff, part poetry, part running > monolgue, makes me wonder about her mental state. > Ken > np Elliot Smith/Lets Get Lost > I've been following her blog, which is pretty hard to find, so we can't accuse her of self promotion. But I also am worried about her state. She is getting into a lot of name calling and conflict in her blog, especially with Boy George over the failure of Taboo. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:42:55 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: HOMOSEXUAL HUMOR, njc > > If homosexuality is a disease, let's all call in queer to work: > "Hello. Can't work today, still queer." ~ Robin Tyler > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather be black than gay because when you're black you don't have > to tell your mother. ~ Charles Pierce > > > > > > > > > > > > "Dear Abby," In response to a reader who complained that a gay couple > was moving in across the street and wanted to know what he could do to > improve the > > quality of the neighborhood. > > > > > > 'You could move.' ~ Abigail Van Buren. > > > > > > > > > > > > The one bonus of not lifting the ban on gays in the military is that > the next time the government mandates a draft, we can all declare we are > > homosexual instead of running off to Canada. ~ Lorne Bloch > > > > > > > > > > > > Why can't they have gay people in the army? Personally, I think they > are just afraid of a thousand guys with M16s going, "Who'd you call a > faggot?"~ > > Jon Stewart > > > > > > > > > > > > My lesbianism is an act of Christian charity. All those women out > there > > praying for a man, and I'm giving them my share. ~ Rita Mae Brown > > > > > > > > > > > > Soldiers who are not afraid of guns, bombs, capture, torture or death > say they are afraid of homosexuals. Clearly we should not be used as > soldiers; we should be used as weapons. ~ Letter to the Editor, The Advocate > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to > be able to shoot straight. ~ Barry Goldwater > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men > > holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines > > > > > > > > > > > > My own belief is that there is hardly anyone whose sexual life, if it > were broadcast, would not fill the world at large with surprise and horror. > ~ W. Somerset Maugham > > > > > > > > > > > > Drag is when a man wears everything a lesbian won't. ~ Author Unknown > > > > > > > > > > > > > If male homosexuals are called "gay," then female homosexuals should > be called "ecstatic." ~ Shelly Roberts > > > > > > > > > > > > My mother took me to a psychiatrist when I was fifteen because she > thought I was a latent homosexual. There was nothing latent about it. > > > ~ Amanda Bearse > > > > > > > > > > > > It always seemed to me a bit pointless to disapprove of > homosexuality. It's like disapproving of rain..... ~ Francis Maude > > > > > > > > > > > > The only queer people are those who don't love anybody..... > > > > > > ~ Rita Mae Brown > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 > > > admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God > > > doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more > supervision. > > > ~ Lynn Lavner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:14:19 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Pippin NJC > MARK WROTE: >> Pippin's grandmother will always be my favorite. I wish I had seen >> Irene Ryan in the part. Many people don't know about her wonderful contributions to theatre. There is a national Thespian award given away to high schoolers every year. > ned to her . . . > > Yes, Brooklyn the Musical is new this season. It's been open about four > months, and it has this rabid fan base of 20-year-olds that are (barely) > keeping it open. The critics HATED the whole show. Like I said, I loved > it. I absolutely hated the show. It is everything that is wrong with contemporary Broadway musicals, but let's not go there. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:22:41 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Cooke Subject: joni discussed in new book of poetry Joni Mitchell will be included in a new book of poetry called BREAK BLOW BURN by the controversial scholar/gadfly Camille Paglia. I don't know which poem(s) is discussed. The book is scheduled for release March 29. Douglas Cooke www.richardandmimi.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:04:50 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Still reproductive NJC today on a church sign Oh I just love it when these 'former' gay folk come on TV and they claim that the bible set them free and they are living this straight, Christian life. Then they tell you that they married a former lesbian with 'YMCA' playing in the background... Sheesh! (Can you say artificial insemination? Bet their favorite movie is 'Boys on the Side'...) And no I'm not being bitchy. Know thyself, right? Well if these folk would do just that there would be no need to change... And speaking of the bible... Now there's this big-story church shooting in Milwaukee, and the police have no clue as to what set the man off. They are looking at his computers for a clue, since he left no note and committed suicide. Hmmm. They kleep on repeating that 2 weeks prior he stormed out of a service because the sermon upset him, according to 2 of his close church friends. Just what was that sermon about ? So who was it that said we act on emotion and think it is something higher? We are emotional beings. I've yet to see anyone make a decision that was based on pure logic. There is always an emotional componant... Steve And I totally believe in reproductive restriction, because the world has been overpopulated for some time. And yes, I do fear for the future- for myself and others... >>> Em 3/13/2005 4:48:45 PM >>> - --- Smurf wrote: > How about we put a "Would You Be Caught Dead in This > Outfit?" page on the JMDL, and then start an ex-Joni > movement for formerly gay men and lesbians! speaking of formery gay... today I almost puked into my helmet passing this one church - they had on their sign "you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you straight". Bite me, bite me, bite me. :( Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:39:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: HOMOSEXUAL HUMOR, njc these are so good!!!!!!!!!! you're wicked, laurent. i'm so sad i won't be able to do the eurojoni and meet you! darn it, all those french songs i learned for jonifests and never got to sing. this would've been the perfect setting. love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:44:07 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: HOMOSEXUAL HUMOR, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: > > > > > Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men > > > holding guns than holding hands? ~ Ernest Gaines That kind of says it all, doesn't it? We are neanderthals in Nike. The rest were good, too. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:19:35 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: reproduction rights NJC One of my really farfetched daydreams is that population of the entire world would take one year off from reproducing. Just one year. Imagine the impact. Lori, who thinks there are too many people, period. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:28:08 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: photos, njc Paz asked: Hey are you guys ever gonna post your pics on Hatstand from the 04 fest?? I was feeling like seeing some pics tonight and went there and checked some old fotos out and was reminded that you guys have still not posted. What the cluck??? Hi Paz! No cluck, just chirp here. Spring singing, Joni ringing... would post them, but haven't got a clue how to. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:16:33 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Thunderhead of Judgement, or Patience, my dears! (njc) Walt you're so funny, you always crack me up! Thanks for giving me back my smile on this Monday... love ya, Donna >>> 3/14/2005 8:06:43 AM >>> Referring to Lucy's comment to Brits' habit of uncomplainingly standing in lines/queses, Garret said: <> I love that -- and what a contrast there would be in (at least) parts of this country. If two or three people lined up in a random place, they would be in danger of being pushed aside with a brusque "Get the f**k outta my way." When I moved here (San Francisco) fifteen years ago, I was surprised to see that people would sort of informally line up at a bus stop -- *some* people would, but others were, and are, apparently queue-blind, utterly ignoring the line and plowing through people to get a good seat. Lately, I've been turning into a coot -- it was inevitable, I'll be intering my latest possibly forties in April -- and I make scenes in public, particularly on buses or at bus stops. A couple of weeks ago, I was on a crowded bus with a friend when a trio of youths, they looked 12 or 13, got on and were making their way to the back when the bus lurched and one of the kids fell partly on a seated passenger, a grown man in his 30s; the latter started up with the kid, and they started the schoolyard escalation thing. The kid couldn't back down, I suppose, because his friends were watching to see what he'd do. After a minute of this, I put on my full-throated high school teacher's voice and said, "Why don't we *all* pretend we're grownups?" It had the desired effect - --several people, including the friend I was with, appauded, and the "grownup" got off the bus at the next stop. I'm fully aware that I get away with this sort of stuff partly because I'm 6'6" tall and weigh 175-185 (okay, so I get marked absent if I turn sideways). This can also work against me, as I often look heartier than I feel, but I usually tend to have a benign expression. On the rare occasion when I'm not feeling benign -- Robert says that he can see the thunderhead of judgement gathering in my gaze -- and someone doesn't take a hint, I tend to get scarier than I intend. The day after the previously described event on a bus, I was feeling particularly unwell, and approached a bus kiosk not far from my home. The standard model here has three seats, and a youngish woman (she was definitely not a child, in her 20s or 30s) was sitting in the middle one, her purse on one seat, a bottle of juice on the other. I stood and glared at her, which she blissfully ignored. Then a man of about 80, walking with a cane, came up to the kiosk and looked balefully at the underused seats, shrugged, walked on, and stood nearby. (This is where Robert would be saying "uh oh".) That was it. "Excuse me," I said. She continued staring into space. "EXCUSE ME MADAM," I said. Finally jolted out her reveries, she said, "What?" "Is that your juice?" Having noticed too late that I was in thunderhead mode, she now was in a panic -- she looked at the bottle of juice as if it had just sprung randomly into existence, and then back at me. "Miss, *is* that *your* *juice*?" "Yes." Finally, a concession that she was not alone in the universe! "Then perhaps you'd like to pick *it* and your purse *up* so that if, say, for example, *that* gentleman [who was gesturing "Hey, don't include me in this, you're the crazy person..."] or, say, *I* want to sit down, then we can?" Finally realizing what I was getting at, she grabbed up her belongings and stood next to the old man. Exasperated, I said, "I didn't mean *you* couldn't sit, I just wanted you to *share*." But it was too late -- she's probably afraid to sit even at home now, the poor thing. A last thought on patience is: How quickly we adjust to the hgh speed of modern technology! Twenty years ago, Joan Rivers told lots of jokes about Liz Taylor's getting fat, one of which was that Liz was the only person who could stand looking at a microwave oven and scream, "Hurry up!!" I do that now. Love to all, and patience, my bunnies -- Thor says so! Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Sharon Stone's Bare Breasts On the JMDL -- njc > VINCE WROTE: > can we find more ways to > imitate the National Enquirer Still trying, Vince! Click here for Sharon's tatas: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005120865,00.html XO, - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 02:21:55 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Jimmy Webb (Joni content) from last Friday's Chicago Tribune, article by Greg Kot (who loves Joni) Revisiting the magic of Jimmy Webb Greg Kot, Tribune music critic Published March 11, 2005 Jimmy Webb, who's coming to town this weekend for a rare pair of concerts, is a modern master who never quite fit in despite writing some of the greatest songs of the last half-century. Webb, 58, was an odd-ball even in the oddball 1960s, a long-haired Baptist minister's son who wrote elegantly complicated songs that became hits for artists (Fifth Dimension, Glen Campbell, Richard Harris) considered too middle-of-the-road for the rock generation. In the '70s, he reclaimed many of those songs, putting his own eccentric spin on the likes of "Galveston," "P.F. Sloan," "The Moon's a Harsh Mistress," "The Highway-man," "Wichita Lineman" and "MacArthur Park." He sang in a scratchy Southwestern drawl, played piano like the child prodigy he once was, and developed arrangements that stamped him as a worthy successor to Jack Nitzsche, Quincy Jones and Billy Strayhorn. Those albums, recently collected on the limited-edition box set "The Moon's a Harsh Mistress: Jimmy Webb in the Seventies" (Rhino Handmade), became critically acclaimed, the idiosyncratic output of a songwriter who won Grammys yet never quite escaped the cult-artist ghetto. Webb can now laugh about those days, as hurtful as it once was to realize that he would never become the pop star he once fantasized about becoming. "I escaped without having to pay back too many millions of dollars for the albums I made that didn't sell," he says during an interview from his home in New York. "Which is something that young artists don't get away with too much in this day. The record companies have turned into thugs." Webb's career is far from over. After lying low for nearly a decade while weathering a divorce and trying to get a play produced on Broadway, he is preparing to release his first studio album of new material in more than a decade this spring on Sanctuary Records. "I call it `Twilight of the Renegades' because I see so many of the musical renegades, in the best sense of that term, getting older and dropping by the wayside," Webb says. "People close to me like Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Richard Harris and Warren Zevon have died in recent years, and I don't see anybody ready to fill those shoes. We've lost our farm club of great songwriters and that really disturbs me. I hope someday there is another John Lennon, and I hope that music gets involved in politics and culture again, and becomes a significant force in the world, because it can be so awesomely powerful in its ability to reach people. Does pop music do that anymore? I don't think so." Webb sees production overtaking songwriting craftsmanship, to the point where two-chord phrases have usurped developed melodies as choruses. In the service of the song, Webb developed a style that favored layered instrumentation and dramatic contrasts, sometimes crossing the line into melodrama. His Richard Harris-sung version of "MacArthur Park" earned an entry in critic Jimmy Guterman's "The Worst Rock 'n' Roll Records of All Time" (1991), which derided the song's "bathetic lyrics" and "over-orchestrated" arrangement. Yet his equally ambitious "Wichita Lineman" and "By the Time I Get to Phoenix," the latter recorded in an epic, slow-burn version by Isaac Hayes, are stone classics. Webb was nothing if not ambitious, willing to take huge risks sonically and lyrically while exposing his inner turmoil. In his invaluable book "Tunesmith: Inside the Art of Songwriting" (1998), Webb offers this advice: "In the pursuit of art, there are no mistakes." At the same time, he recognizes that the pursuit can sometimes go too far. "The only way you can draw the line is to go over it," he says. "Because you keep pushing in that direction, and then all of a sudden you look back and realize you did. When songwriting becomes inextricable from your life, there are always gonna be times when people say, `Isn't that a little overboard?' "It's the art of self-revelation, and someone like Joni Mitchell--someone I was privileged and pleased to be around a lot in the '70s--perfected it. She developed this conversational tone, even as she was saying all this stuff to you: `I'm having a nervous breakdown, I'm in the hospital today, and I'm thinking of all the mistakes in my life, and that's what this song is about.' Such a thought would never have occurred to George Gershwin or Cole Porter." Webb says he and his '60s contemporaries, from the Beatles to Brian Wilson, were "just a faint, ghostly image" of what Porter, Gershwin and the other songwriters of Tin Pan Alley and Broadway were doing decades earlier. He's a little sheepish about sounding like the old pro lamenting the passage of the good old days, but he thinks it's more a shift in cultural priorities rather than a lack of talent that accounts for today's paucity of sophisticated songs. "It's scary how much luck has to do with this," he says. "There are certain artists who have achieved notoriety and there's not a reason in the world they should be famous, and there are anonymous geniuses walking through airports carrying battered guitar cases." "The farm clubs of songwriting have been decimated, if not wiped out," he continues. "The places that are available for them to play, the labels willing to take on songwriters who may not be that immediately charismatic or ready for radio, but have real acumen in their music, and a way of putting something over, are drying up. Bob Dylan wouldn't even get close to a microphone on a record company's dime today." Jimmy Webb - -- http://www.southsiders.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:30:50 -0500 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: reproduction rights NJC Ha! Dream on, Lori. The very idea makes me want to "get busy" the very first chance I get. Well, that and the crack of Dawn. My sense is that I'd last about as long as Kramer did in that Seinfeld episode where they bet on who could go longest without, well, you know... But hey, wait a second. I'm a 44-year-old single Black male with no child to raise! Johnny, tell him what he's won! It's a new car!!!!! But seriously, you guys, look at Germany. I saw on 60 Minutes that the their baby census is plummeting and that hospital neonatal wards are closing left and right. The Germans are calling out non-child having couples for being "selfish" in that they're choosing Mercedes over kids on the basis of economics alone. Jobs are few and far between for many of child-bearing age...and hard to come by if you're displaced. What's gonna happen is that one day a colossal meteor is going to hit this blue planet and end all our people population worries. Of course, the rats and cockroaches will endure, but what more are we? - -Julius >One of my really farfetched daydreams is that population of the entire >world would take one year off from reproducing. Just one year. >Imagine the impact. >Lori, >who thinks there are too many people, period. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #116 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)