From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #104 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 5 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 104 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- last 10 'CD' purchases [John Sprackland ] Queen of queens [Oddmund Kaarevik ] Re: last 10 'CD' purchases [Catherine McKay ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Catherine McKay ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Smurf ] box office mojo ["David Henderson" ] rufus NJC ["David Henderson" ] NJC last 10 cd purchases ["David Henderson" ] Re: box office mojo njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Em ] NJC last 10 cd purchases ["David Henderson" ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Em ] a comment on the pre-Dan demos, bootlegs whatever they were, NJC [Em ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Em ] RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Catherine McKay ] Rufus and drugs NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: box office mojo ["Mark or Travis" ] come and go alone ["David Henderson" ] RE: box office mojo NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: come and go alone [Catherine McKay ] Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Randy Remote ] Re: come and go alone -- here's your hat, what's your hurry [Smurf ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:17:14 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: last 10 'CD' purchases Poem. I never can resist a self-revealing list... Children Talking (LP) 'from the famous BBC series' of the 1960s. A gem! Pennies From Heaven (LP), also from a famous BBC series. Dance band music from the 30s. Janacek - Glagolithic Mass (Supraphon LP), conductor Charles Mackerras. Vivaldi - Juditha Triumphans. Featuring the divine Magdalena Kozena. Magdalena Kozena - Lamento. Obscure Bach family arias. Luaka Bop compilation - sexy mostly Brazilian selection (including the fabulous Silvio Rodrigues, one of the great songwriters of the world, like Joni!) Riley Kiley - More Adventurous. Love them, love them, love them! Miles Davis - In a Silent Way Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um. Both as fallout from my 'Mingus' (the Joni record) infatuation. Thomas Zehetmair - Violin Concertos (Janacek, Berg. Hartmann). Ain't music great! John Southport, UK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:32:53 +0100 (CET) From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: Queen of queens What a great name you have Patti Parlette! You sound like a disco queen or a diva ala Patti LaBelle! I'd love to be lectured by you! You gave me so many laughs today, thanks a lot!!! I was kind of disappointed 'cause no one seemed to answer my question about love, but then you came along, and interrupted the sorrow, made me smile and realise it was just a false alarm... 'cause you see, I am looking for something, what can it be? I am trying to find myself i think...It's hard, so tiresome, but its nice too. I learn to give I ache and learn to live. So what about love, dear Patti- Well, I never had a king, or a prince, or a cat...Well I had a cat when I was little, but love, love...Love suffers long. And I am a man of heart and mind with time on my hands and no child to raise I'm looking for affection and respect A little passion We'll see. Guess its not easy to handle me Oddmund, 'cause I'm selfish and I'm sad, so hopeless and so inspired... But its "better to have lost in love, than never to have loved at all..." and life has learned me not to worry about love but to honour its coming So "Let these walls come tumbling down" and let all these dogs go running free (weel thats maybe too drastic, let them run free in the woods, NOT in the streets...) My greetings back to you, dear Patti, wish you happy days with your dreamland coming on Yours Sincerely Oddmund, Norway ===== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: last 10 'CD' purchases I usually don't bother with lists (too lazy and not terribly interested), but I have bought a bunch of CDs lately that I haven't filed away yet, because I haven't listened to all of them yet and haven't put them in my catalogue (half-arsed attempt at keeping track of what I've got in case of fire, loss or theft): 1. Led Zeppelin remastered (box set, don't remember the name, because my son has made off with it) 2. Tears For Fears: Everybody loves a happy ending 3. The Cure: Show 4. Ani DeFranco: Knuckle Down 5. Deep Purple: Machine Head (remastered) 6. Jane Monheit: Taking a chance on lovee 7. Over the Rhine: Changes Come 8. Gram Parsons: Gp/Grievous Angel (double) 9. Jeremy Fisher: Let it Shine 10. Bright Eyes (2 CDs - cheating, because there are two and my daughter bought them, but among the most recent we've bought.) Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:08:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep - --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Joni said, >>long silk stockings on the bedpost of > refinement>> > > Maybe Ludwig had an indiscrete "thing" > going with a lady > other than his wife, so her "silk stockings" > represent a mis-step. > I don't think Luddy over got married. I always imagine that phrase referring to him having an affair (maybe just a one-night stand) with a married someone of a higher class than he. It's just a cheap thrill for the woman (she's gettin' it on with a common man while hubby, the duke or count of something, is off at the palace thinking up more ways to keep the peons in their place), but Luddy likes to think it's real love, all the while suspecting he's being made fun of, but what the hey, it's sex. Musicians/composers were considered interesting but low class and Beethoven's music was considered kind of rough for its time. That's just my impression. Doesn't have to be right. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:11:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Queen of queens - --- Oddmund Kaarevik wrote: > What a great name you have Patti Parlette! I agree about Patti's name, but I also think Oddmund is a VERY COOL name. I've known some odd men, but never an Oddmund. If I were to have another kid (an impossibility), I'd want to call him Oddmund. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 06:18:23 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Catherine wrote: > That's just my impression. Doesn't have to be right. > But it *is* right, Catherine! And fie on those who ask, "What do the lyrics mean to *you*?" I am certain your interpretation is exactly what Joni was saying. Plus, it's always what I've believed. - --Smurf, off to do 10,000 errands because it's Saturday __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:07:06 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC I actually can't remember the last ten but i have a few very recent purchases: Tori Amos - The Beekeeper (mmmmm, very long. This would be better with some editing. Of course, i couldn't choose any tracks to leave, but Tori really should have or could have and then given us the others later as b-sides or downloads, oh i just don't know) Nick Cave and the bad Seeds- Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus (maaaaaan this is fantastic. ifind that difficult to admit given my dogged avoidance of NC for so many years) Nirvana - Nevermind (still as good as i remember it. how i've missed it) Tom Waits - Real Gone (well, it is Tom Waits!) Neil YOung and crazy Horse - Zuma (another gem) yup, can't think of any others. i'm looking forward to rufus and martha getting their albums on the shelves. GARRET NP- Nick Cave and the bad Seeds - Let the bells ring - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:16:43 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: box office mojo Sorry if I'm late on this because I haven't checked my digests in a couple of days, but did people read this link? Jeez, this guy is enough of a creep to turn me off to the site forever. Do you think he has a problem with African-Americans, or any people of color, for that matter? >>HE WRITES: >>Yet another promising actor reminded us that, in the new Hollywood, one's value is based, at least partly, on >>one's racenot solely on one's ability to act. Best Actor winner Jamie Foxx, like Halle Berry before him (and >>many before her), transformed an award granted for an individual's performance into a statement of allegiance >>to his race, which is racism. This attitude is exacerbated by people like Oprah Winfrey, whose quasi-Black >>Panther salute from the audience is rock bottom for a guilt-ridden billionaire with more power than practically >>everyone in Hollywood. What a fraud. Cheering a winner for a characteristic beyond his controlrace, sex, >>nationalityis among the ceremony's worst traditionsit is an insult to every actor. >>Racism's corollary, multiculturalismthe idea that all cultures are equalhad time in Oscar's spotlight, too, >>with Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas celebrating a folk song sung in Spanish that was awarded >>Oscar's Best Song over superior work by Andrew Lloyd Webber and Glen Ballard among others. Oprah's "quasi-Black Panther salute"? Is it really that hard to understand why a person would be proud of the achievements of another person is his select group even if his membership in that group is "beyond his control - race, sex, nationality"? I'm sure some people get nominated or win from time to time for reasons other than acting, but I don't think most people would put Jamie Foxx or Halle Berry in that category - those were incredible performances, and they would have grabbed the award even if their skin had been as white as a klan rally. And he seems to infer that "the idea that all cultures are equal" is just idealism . . . maybe he landed on the wrong planet . . . ? Maybe aliens really do exist! David NP Emimem, Mockingbird >Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:41:54 -0500 >From: jrmco1@aol.com >Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #99 >That website is a decent resource, but I think that columnist misses >the mark badly. His conclusions are flawed because he starts from >false premises, imo. Interesting read, but lazy writing. - - -Julius >Bryan wrote: >Similarly, here's a column about the depravity and desperation of the Academy >Awards show: >http://www.boxofficemojo.com/commentary/?id=1738&p=.htm >BTW, if you dig movies and the movie biz, boxofficemojo.com is quite a .resource. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:19:14 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: rufus NJC LOL LOL LOL >Subject: Re: Rufus njc >He absolutely has changed significantly since his recovery. But I also have >a problem with someone complaining about their 6 solid years of sex and >drugs. I should be so unlucky! >Jerry :) OOPS SORRY I just realized I forgot the NJC on the last post! APOLOGIES! David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:31:05 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: NJC last 10 cd purchases I'll play. I love lists. I think I have control issues. Loretta Lynn, Van Lear Rose CD Emimem, Encore CD Destiny's Child, Soldier single Gavin DeGraw, I Don't Want To Be single Lenny Kravitz, Lady single Green Day, American Idiot CD Broadway cast of Brooklyn, Once Upon A Time Ja Rule, New York single The Killers, Mr. Brightside single The Killers, Somebody Told Me single David NP Killers, Mr. Brightside >Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:58:00 +0000 >From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) >Subject: last 10 cd purchases NJC >we have not done this in a while >Red Light District, Ludicris >Encore (Deluxe Edition), Eminem >Collision Course, JayZ and Linkin Park >The Massacre, 50 cents >The Best of the Drifters >John Denver's Biggest Hits >The Capitol Beatles albums >yet another version of the Marriage of Figaro >Encore, Eminem (for me) >Encore, Eminem (for Gage) >Encore, Eminem (for my secretary) >Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:43:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: box office mojo njc David, I had a very similar reaction to yours. I didn't even finish reading the story. I wouldn't judge the site by that one column though. I will check out a few other stories before I dismiss the whole site (haven't done this yet.) - --- David Henderson wrote: > Sorry if I'm late on this because I haven't checked > my digests in a couple > of days, but did people read this link? Jeez, this > guy is enough of a creep > to turn me off to the site forever. Do you think he > has a problem with > African-Americans, or any people of color, for that > matter? > > >>HE WRITES: > >>Yet another promising actor reminded us that, in > the new Hollywood, one's > value is based, at least partly, on >>one's racenot > solely on one's ability > to act. Best Actor winner Jamie Foxx, like Halle > Berry before him (and > >>many before her), transformed an award granted for > an individual's > performance into a statement of allegiance >>to his > race, which is racism. > >Bryan wrote: > >Similarly, here's a column about the depravity and > desperation of the > Academy > >Awards show: > > >http://www.boxofficemojo.com/commentary/?id=1738&p=.htm > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 07:44:25 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Lama! lol! your post cracked me up, man. ah, prescribed standards, huh? so a stocking (flung?) on the bedpost was just really "out there", huh? As opposed to folded neatly. But what if they were using it for one to tie the other up? hmm pretty raw, huh??? would be a fun porn flick: Ron Jeremy as Ludwig! ha! sorry...... I'm off me rocker this morning. I'm still twisting the phrase around, not so much trying to figure out exactly what Joni meant exactly; but its like its *almost* giving me a picture, besides the literal. I feel like its almost gonna give me something really cool. But I can't break on through to the oher side on this. Anyway, its a wad of gum I'll stick on the bedpost of refinement - to chew on at a later time! Have a wonderful day Jim and all, and those of you in the northern places, "freeze thy blood LESS coldly", k? big love, Em ps the needle on a pin underneath the skin is the laying on of a tat (in my view). The part you don't want to think about too much unless you are really a masochist. I like to think of it as he's just scratching me over and over..the needle under the skin gives me the willies... - --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Joni said, >>long silk stockings on the bedpost of refinement>> > > Em, > You're off your game. Ordinarily you'd nail this within an hour. > Are > you sleep deprived? Anyway, here's my take on this line. > > There were "prescribed standards" (ha! extra points!) for society > folks > in Ludwig's day. Like Jackson Pollock, he was a bit of a social > oddity. When Joni wrote the song, brass beds were old-fashioned, not > > yet retro. The rigid framework of Ludwig's day (refinement) is made > tangible and visible as a bedpost. (Only Joni Mitchell would have > the > chutzpah to write "bedposts of refinement". Only Joni Mitchell, > having > tried to sing Annie Ross' "Cloudburst", would have the verbal > aptitude > to sing those syllables, stay in pitch, and make the meter work. Her > > muse, Sadie, was with her that day.) > > Ludwig's casualness and comfort (stockings) clashed with the norms > (decorum of the bedpost). Would "long silk stockings" roughly > translate > as "full-length pajamas"? Are there any history buffs reading the > JMDL > this week? Maybe Ludwig had an indiscrete "thing" going with a lady > other than his wife, so her "silk stockings" represent a mis-step. > > Can you help me out now? In "Blue", is the "ink on a pin /underneath > > the skin" a clever foreshadowing of an artist shooting (needles) or > just > an accident? > > It's too bad you got "here" after Julie Z. Webb, and Kakki left. > They > were really good at this stuff. Maybe Jenny or Muller will jump in > here. They love the literary angles too. > > All the best, > Lama > PS, Did Martha Stewart's 15 minutes of fame get reset this week? > > > Em said, > >what a phrase! The bedpost of refinement! What the heck is the > bedpost of refinement????? Sounds like the name of an early 20th > century painting! > > and then I enjoyed thinking well, ok if "you" is Joni then they are > her stockings, blah blah blah...But! if "you" is ol' Ludwig, then > he's gettin' him some. Unless he also has long silk stockings - which > I guess men were more apt to have back then. > Anyway, I just turned that phrase over and over in my head, not sure > why; hadn't been listening to that song or anything. Was chewing on > it like a dog chews a bone.> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:02:23 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: NJC last 10 cd purchases Jerry - I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Dinah. Her voice feels so deliciously warm and cheeky and proud to me. Her recording of Harbor Lights is one of my all-time favorites - as is What A Difference. Ever heard of the little-known Irene Reid from the early 60's? Similar voice, more laid back, personality of her own. I love her too. I think any Dinah fan would. David NP Mary Gauthier (I've been seeing her great reviews all around - had never heard of her before. Really interesting . . . very original, a little reminiscent of Chapin Carpenter, Janis Joplin . . . I forget the name, the group that did The Trinity Sessions . . .) >>DINAH WASHINGTON - WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:08:49 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Hi Catherine, I love your take on this. yes yes yes...thanks for playing. :) Em - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > > --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > > Joni said, >>long silk stockings on the bedpost of > > refinement>> > > > > Maybe Ludwig had an indiscrete "thing" > > going with a lady > > other than his wife, so her "silk stockings" > > represent a mis-step. > > > > I don't think Luddy over got married. I always imagine > that phrase referring to him having an affair (maybe > just a one-night stand) with a married someone of a > higher class than he. It's just a cheap thrill for the > woman (she's gettin' it on with a common man while > hubby, the duke or count of something, is off at the > palace thinking up more ways to keep the peons in > their place), but Luddy likes to think it's real love, > all the while suspecting he's being made fun of, but > what the hey, it's sex. Musicians/composers were > considered interesting but low class and Beethoven's > music was considered kind of rough for its time. > > That's just my impression. Doesn't have to be right. > > > Catherine > Toronto > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:18:22 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: a comment on the pre-Dan demos, bootlegs whatever they were, NJC they're too RAW~! THEY'RE TOO RAW!!!!! :P em delicious.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 08:32:09 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC last 10 cd purchases David Henderson wrote: >. . . I forget > the name, the group that did The Trinity Sessions . . .) That would be Cowboy Junkies and the singer is the wonderful Margo Timmins. Take it away, Lama! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 08:38:38 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Catherine McKay wrote: > --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: >> Joni said, >>long silk stockings on the bedpost of >> refinement>> >> >> Maybe Ludwig had an indiscrete "thing" >> going with a lady >> other than his wife, so her "silk stockings" >> represent a mis-step. >> > > I don't think Luddy over got married. I always imagine > that phrase referring to him having an affair (maybe > just a one-night stand) with a married someone of a > higher class than he. It's just a cheap thrill for the > woman (she's gettin' it on with a common man while > hubby, the duke or count of something, is off at the > palace thinking up more ways to keep the peons in > their place), but Luddy likes to think it's real love, > all the while suspecting he's being made fun of, but > what the hey, it's sex. To be honest, I've never been completely sure what Joni meant by this line but I suspect Catherine is pretty close to the mark. I do think it's tied to the previous line 'and the women that you wanted they get their laughs'. The women that Ludwig wanted considered him to be beneath them and an object of ridicule. The long silk stockings on the bedpost of refinement are a reference to those women. Maybe. What I would like to know is what people think about the lines at the beginning of this verse: In the court they carve your legend With an apple in its jaw What does that refer to? Is Ludwig being ridiculed again, compared to a pig maybe? Inquiring Joni students want to know! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:40:16 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: All I Want: Rufus documentary: in the UK [njc] Rufus documentary on Channel 4 (UK) All I Want: A Portrait of Rufus Wainwright will air on Channel 4 (UK) on March 12, 2005 at 11:30 PM. http://www.channel4.com Anyone able to record this for me? either in DVD-R, or NSTC Videotape? ~Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:46:34 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: box office mojo njc With all deference given to differing opinions, I didn't read the piece as racism but rather as a person who is tired of racism being brought to the fore at every opportunity and that the forum was supposed to excellence in movies, not race. My take. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:59:26 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Hi Mark! My take on this is that having an "apple in the jaw" refers to a fabulous firm studly jawline. Like Jim Morrison or sometimes Bob Dylan used to. Statuary and busts of famous men usually endoiw them with that jaw line with the 'bulge" at the back end of the lower jaw. But what you said is interesting too, like the sacrificial roasted pig with apple in mouth. hmmmmm.... kewl! :) Em - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > > What I would like to know is what people think about the lines at the > beginning of this verse: > > In the court they carve your legend > With an apple in its jaw > > What does that refer to? Is Ludwig being ridiculed again, compared > to a pig maybe? > > Inquiring Joni students want to know! > > Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:59:47 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) >This is one of the things Chuck Mitchell is up to: http://www.fosterandtwain.us/index2.html< LOL...what a brilliant idea for a show! some of the promo: >"Reports of our demise, in 1864 and 1910 respectively, have been greatly exaggerated;" says Mr. Twain. "Subsequent reports that we are returning merely to settle accounts with our creditors are untrue," says Mr. Foster. "We are deadbeats. We are coming back to have a good time." Mr. Foster and Mr. Twain became acquainted in a post-mortality stress recovery group and decided that method acting in the cosmos would play just as well back home< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:02:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC >I've been listening to the Starbucks collection and also 'Dreamland' which I recently picked up on sale at Tower Records and it occurred to me that this idea of isolation or being alone is another recurrent theme in Joni's songs, especially, it seems to me, on more recent recordings.< Such a trait of scorpios... being alone, solitary... Kate, the astrology hobbyisth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:19:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Rufus njc >Ok, I will chime in here since I'm acquainted with Rufus personally, and have known him before his rehab and subsequent recovery. Kate & Loudon were not accepting of him at a very early age< Here is a recent article that echoes richard's comments: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8127-1509963,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:24:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > What I would like to know is what people think about > the lines at the beginning of this verse: > > In the court they carve your legend > With an apple in its jaw > > What does that refer to? Is Ludwig being ridiculed > again, compared to a pig maybe? > > Inquiring Joni students want to know! > Yep, that's how I see it. "He's just a rough pig but hmm, that music he writes. What do you make of it? It's raw, it's crazy, it's wild. I don't know whether to like it or not..." Beethoven was a bit of a nutter, that ran around talking and humming to himself, lost his hearing but kept hearing all these wonderful sounds that he had to get down before he lost them. I think people would have been laughing at him behind his back and yet, in awe at the same time. I think he's like the Van Gogh character in Turbulent Indigo. Everyone wants a piece of him, they've got to buy the art or listen to the music because he's just the latest in thing, but no one would invite him to dinner, because he just wouldn't fit in, y'know? He'd piss in the fireplace and drag 'em through turbulent indigo. He'd shake up their safe world too much. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:27:02 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: box office mojo njc You could be right, too. I thought that as I read it. It's very difficult most of the time to know what the writer's intentions were, especially if you know nothing of the writer. I can certainly see both view points. - --- mackoliver wrote: > With all deference given to differing opinions, I > didn't read the piece as > racism but rather as a person who is tired of racism > being brought to the > fore at every opportunity and that the forum was > supposed to excellence in > movies, not race. My take. > > mack > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:30:06 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Rufus and drugs NJC RICHARD SAID: >The final track on latest album, Want Two, "An Old Whore's Diet" was >written while quite under the influence on weekend in NYC and he talks >about it on the album commentary, online on his websites, in >Discorgraphy, it's hilarious actually, you all would like to hear it. >No regrets, that boy has none. That's very good to hear. I hate people who whine and wallow. I had a serious drug and alcohol problem myself until 11 months ago, as did one of my closest friends, and the first hurdle is shame. I think a good sense of humor helps. I think some form of therapy helps. As a matter of fact, I think all humans should be required a minimum of two years of therapy during their lifetime. ;) Really, do you wait to go to a medical doctor until something really serious happens? It's good medicine, and it feels surprisingly good going down. Now my friend has me "counseling" these five gay teenagers (even though I'm about as qualified to counsel anyone on anything as I am qualified to perform brain surgery). I just talk to them, and I try to teach them to laugh at themselves and to laugh at the world, to not live in fear as so many of my generation did (I'm 44). Live in utter fear for two or three decades, and you can end-up totally fried, and when you're really screwed up, drugs and alcohol can be a real comfort - like blinders on a sunny day. I can find humor in almost any situation (I know some can't). That's what works for me. That and Joni and Emimem and Augusten Burroughs . . . and "It's Raining Men" really loud . . . ;) As to what Em was saying about feeling alone, I have always felt alone, separate from others, no matter how many good friends or family I had - until the last year. I think being a lone spirit is very natural and healthy and positive for a lot of people. I think for some of us it can be a crutch, a wall of defense, a reaction to fear. I feel now like I didn't have to feel so alone all of these years . . . it was just that, feelings, not reality necessarily . . . but it's all new to me. I can feel very vulnerable when I feel myself crossing that line - from casual conversation to a real connection with someone else. I don't want someone to rock my carefully put together psychological boat. I know that the main thing that has always attracted me to Joni Mitchell is that she seems so strong and proud in her aloneness. I was actually kind of crushed when she got married; that threw me for a loop. I thought, Joni does not need to depend on anyone else, why would she get married? I remember telling a friend that she turned out to be an emotional cripple just like everyone else. Fortunately, I've grown beyond that view of myself and of her and of relationships. As for Barcelona, I think, the one doing the paper on music and sexism, when I was a six or seven-year-old boy, I thought the funniest song in the world was Johnny Cash's A Boy Named Sue. After years of not hearing it, I heard it on the radio when I was a senior in high school, and I remember it incensed me. Couldn't adults in the 60's tell it was sexist and homophobic? That silly song perpetuates the myth that only a "man's man" is a man and that a man is superior to a woman (and a gay man, I'm sure). Funny the things that stick with you (that I'm sure the rest of you could care less about) . . . And now I realize I'm rambling and writing a memoir, so I will shut-up. Thanks for listening and have a super Saturday! David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 09:33:40 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: box office mojo David Henderson wrote: > Sorry if I'm late on this because I haven't checked my digests in a > couple of days, but did people read this link? Jeez, this guy is > enough of a creep to turn me off to the site forever. Do you think > he has a problem with African-Americans, or any people of color, for > that matter? > He certainly seems to have a strong reactionary streak at any rate. The references to Ayn Rand and the link to an article about the possible filiming of 'Atlas Shrugged' are probably an indication of the slant of this publication. I don't recall any kind of racism being hinted at in Rand's novels but it has been a long time since I read them and I never read her other purely philosophical publications. I did have a lit prof in college who called Ayn Rand a fascist pig once. I wanted to take issue with him about that as I was an avid fan of hers at that time but I didn't feel adequately educated to do it. Wasn't quite sure exactly what a fascist was! When Halle Berry won her Oscar I was thrilled and understood her excitement as she accepted the award. It was long overdue for an African American woman to win the Best Actress Oscar. I only wish that there had been no reason to make a big deal over it. But the truth is that people of color have been slighted not only in the awarding of Oscars but in the more important area of the awarding of good parts in American movies. People who complain about Oprah's expression of her support at the Oscars are like those people who want to do away with affirmative action, if you ask me. In the best of all possible worlds we wouldn't need affirmative action and the acknowledgement of Jamie Foxx or Selma Hayek getting some accolade would only be a nod from their peers to their considerable ability. But unfortunately, we don't live in the best of all possible worlds. Selma Hayek has yet to act in another film that comes close to the quality of the wonderful 'Frida' which was made only because she herself pushed hard to get it done. Has Halle Berry had another part as good as the role in 'Monster's Ball'? Why don't we see more of people like the incredibly talented Angela Basset in American films? She should have racked up several Oscar nominations since her incredible portrayal of Tina Turner, but where are the roles that are in the same class as that one for her? The men have fared a bit better but that's a whole other issue of how women are discriminated against. There is still racism in the movie industry and in every walk of American life and as long as it's there, I personally believe that laws that protect the rights of minorities have their place. Acknowledgements of hard-won achievements are entirely appropriate as well. This thread got me thinking about Sidney Poitier. He has always projected an image of class, intelligence and articulate, impeccable manners. The character he played in 'Guess Who's Coming to Dinner' is a model of the perfect man, the kind of man any parent would love to have as a son-in-law. Of course, that part was created deliberately to make a point but I have always thought that the image is true to the actual person in his case. But I wonder if that has ever felt like a burden to him? Does a person of a 'non-white' race really have to be a paragon of virtue to prove themselves worthy? That seems like a incredible amount of pressure to put on one person. When you consider the antics and demeanor of someone like Marlon Brando, for instance who won two Oscars and was lauded as one of the great actors of his generation you have to wonder at the injustice of how some people are perceived on the basis of their race. And that brings me to the issue of glamor and the lack of it in today's Hollywood. Back in the Golden Years, the studios played a huge part in building and maintaining an actor's image. Those icons of the silver screen were just as human as the people we see at the Oscars now but the studios worked hard to make the public believe that they were gods and godesses. Scandals in Hollywood are nothing new going back to Fatty Arbuckle. But the studios were pretty efficient about hushing them up. The first major Hollywood scandal that I can remember hearing about is the Elizabeth Taylor/Richard Burton affair back in the early 60s and I'm wondering if that was kind of a turning point. The tabloids couldn't get enough of it back then. It was splashed across front pages wherever you looked. Liz was dubbed 'the last star' by the gossip monger Kitty Kelly and I'm wondering if Liz and Dick were also partly responsible for the unravelling of the mystique of the Hollywood star and the eventual demise of Hollywood glamor. Enough wool-gathering for now. Have to get showered and moving here. Going to a used book sale and later celebrating my friend and fellow Joni fan Melanie's birthday. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:35:23 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: come and go alone SMURF WROTE: >We absolutely *DO* come and go alone, Bob -- even >people who are born into the world in multiple births. Well, that's a bit cynical, don't you think? When you're born, God knows Mama's there, right? And what if you are on your death bed, and someone - say, Joni Mitchell - is holding your hand, then you are not alone, right? he he David, recovering cynic NP Mary Gauthier, Your Sister Cried ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:03:51 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: box office mojo NJC I think you are so right, Mark. If the financial bigwigs that produce movies developed more films with good roles for minorities, then I think we'd see more award winners. You can't win an award when you can't get cast. It's a little easier for men but not much. They do have some fairly decent roles in the cop/thriller/action-adventure genres - genres that usually write women brief and one-dimensional. Regarding Poitier, I've always wondered if that is why he hasn't worked more. He must have felt an incredible pressure to be the perfect black man, in the 60's and 70's at least. I think Cicely Tyson and Diahann Carroll are two other ones. I wonder if Ellen DeGeneres feels the same pressure. It's as if the public at large decides they will like one perfect individual from x minority. They're still not sure what they think of the rest, but they like that one, and he/she is placed under a microscope forever. David NP Loretta Lynn, I still can't get over how vocally powerful she sounds and how full of life she is at her age . . . too bad Nashville doesn't care - at least she got the Grammy. >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] >>>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 12:34 PM >>>To: David Henderson; Joni Mitchell List; jrmco1@aol.com >>>Subject: Re: box office mojo >>> >>> >>>David Henderson wrote: >>>> Sorry if I'm late on this because I haven't checked my digests in a >>>> couple of days, but did people read this link? Jeez, this guy is >>>> enough of a creep to turn me off to the site forever. Do you think >>>> he has a problem with African-Americans, or any people of color, for >>>> that matter? >>>> >>> >>>He certainly seems to have a strong reactionary streak at any >>>rate. The references to Ayn Rand and >>>the link to an article about the possible filiming of 'Atlas >>>Shrugged' are probably an indication of >>>the slant of this publication. I don't recall any kind of >>>racism being hinted at in Rand's novels >>>but it has been a long time since I read them and I never read >>>her other purely philosophical >>>publications. I did have a lit prof in college who called Ayn >>>Rand a fascist pig once. I wanted to >>>take issue with him about that as I was an avid fan of hers at >>>that time but I didn't feel >>>adequately educated to do it. Wasn't quite sure exactly what a >>>fascist was! >>> >>>When Halle Berry won her Oscar I was thrilled and understood her >>>excitement as she accepted the >>>award. It was long overdue for an African American woman to win >>>the Best Actress Oscar. I only >>>wish that there had been no reason to make a big deal over it. >>>But the truth is that people of >>>color have been slighted not only in the awarding of Oscars but >>>in the more important area of the >>>awarding of good parts in American movies. People who complain >>>about Oprah's expression of her >>>support at the Oscars are like those people who want to do away >>>with affirmative action, if you ask >>>me. In the best of all possible worlds we wouldn't need >>>affirmative action and the acknowledgement >>>of Jamie Foxx or Selma Hayek getting some accolade would only be >>>a nod from their peers to their >>>considerable ability. But unfortunately, we don't live in the >>>best of all possible worlds. Selma >>>Hayek has yet to act in another film that comes close to the >>>quality of the wonderful 'Frida' which >>>was made only because she herself pushed hard to get it done. >>>Has Halle Berry had another part as >>>good as the role in 'Monster's Ball'? Why don't we see more of >>>people like the incredibly talented >>>Angela Basset in American films? She should have racked up >>>several Oscar nominations since her >>>incredible portrayal of Tina Turner, but where are the roles >>>that are in the same class as that one >>>for her? The men have fared a bit better but that's a whole >>>other issue of how women are >>>discriminated against. There is still racism in the movie >>>industry and in every walk of American >>>life and as long as it's there, I personally believe that laws >>>that protect the rights of minorities >>>have their place. Acknowledgements of hard-won achievements are >>>entirely appropriate as well. >>> >>>This thread got me thinking about Sidney Poitier. He has always >>>projected an image of class, >>>intelligence and articulate, impeccable manners. The character >>>he played in 'Guess Who's Coming to >>>Dinner' is a model of the perfect man, the kind of man any >>>parent would love to have as a >>>son-in-law. Of course, that part was created deliberately to >>>make a point but I have always thought >>>that the image is true to the actual person in his case. But I >>>wonder if that has ever felt like a >>>burden to him? Does a person of a 'non-white' race really have >>>to be a paragon of virtue to prove >>>themselves worthy? That seems like a incredible amount of >>>pressure to put on one person. When you >>>consider the antics and demeanor of someone like Marlon Brando, >>>for instance who won two Oscars and >>>was lauded as one of the great actors of his generation you have >>>to wonder at the injustice of how >>>some people are perceived on the basis of their race. >>> >>>And that brings me to the issue of glamor and the lack of it in >>>today's Hollywood. Back in the >>>Golden Years, the studios played a huge part in building and >>>maintaining an actor's image. Those >>>icons of the silver screen were just as human as the people we >>>see at the Oscars now but the studios >>>worked hard to make the public believe that they were gods and >>>godesses. Scandals in Hollywood are >>>nothing new going back to Fatty Arbuckle. But the studios were >>>pretty efficient about hushing them >>>up. The first major Hollywood scandal that I can remember >>>hearing about is the Elizabeth >>>Taylor/Richard Burton affair back in the early 60s and I'm >>>wondering if that was kind of a turning >>>point. The tabloids couldn't get enough of it back then. It >>>was splashed across front pages >>>wherever you looked. Liz was dubbed 'the last star' by the >>>gossip monger Kitty Kelly and I'm >>>wondering if Liz and Dick were also partly responsible for the >>>unravelling of the mystique of the >>>Hollywood star and the eventual demise of Hollywood glamor. >>> >>>Enough wool-gathering for now. Have to get showered and moving >>>here. Going to a used book sale and >>>later celebrating my friend and fellow Joni fan Melanie's birthday. >>> >>>Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:30:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: come and go alone - --- David Henderson wrote: > SMURF WROTE: > >We absolutely *DO* come and go alone, Bob -- even > >people who are born into the world in multiple > births. > > Well, that's a bit cynical, don't you think? When > you're born, God knows > Mama's there, right? And what if you are on your > death bed, and someone - > say, Joni Mitchell - is holding your hand, then you > are not alone, right? he > he Well, David, like you, I can laugh at just about anything, so acknowledging all the humour in this from Smurf, Muller and you, we really are alone when we are born and when we die. We come through the birth canal alone (well, some of us were born by C-section, so that doesn't count, does it?), and we die alone ultimately. There may be people there to catch us when we're born or to hold our hands when we die, but the actual journey is one that we take alone. That sounds way too heavy for a Sunny Saturday afternoon, doesn't it? I don't think it's nearly as bleak as it sounds. I don't mind being alone. In fact, my kids are ALWAYS around, except for the few hours here and there they go to see their Dad and, love them as I do, I ENJOY BEING ALONE!!! Oh well, there's always death, isn't there? Heh-heh-heh. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 10:47:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Catherine McKay wrote: > I think he's like the Van Gogh character in Turbulent > Indigo. Everyone wants a piece of him, they've got to > buy the art or listen to the music because he's just > the latest in thing, but no one would invite him to > dinner, because he just wouldn't fit in, y'know? He'd > piss in the fireplace and drag 'em through turbulent > indigo. He'd shake up their safe world too much. I wouldn't want someone to piss in my fireplace, either. It's not that I'm afraid of being shaken up. You're a great artist, so what? When did that exclude you from acting mature? What kind of arrogance makes you think you are here to give me life lessons? Anyway, didn't you cut off your own ear? (Okay, that line always kind of bothered me. I feel better now). RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:39:19 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Rufus njc - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Here is a recent article that echoes richard's > comments: > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8127-1509963,00.html > Thanks, Kate. I loved it. I especially liked Rufus's answer to this strange but intriguing Times On Line question: TOL: Do you exercise your soul? RUFUS: As a song-writer, I have a natural disposition to want to commune with higher natural forces, if only because it makes working that much easier. When you bliss out and flow with the sphere, time passes a lot quicker and work is less arduous. So, yeah, I definitely take the God shortcut sometimes. __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:54:08 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: come and go alone -- here's your hat, what's your hurry I wrote: > >We absolutely *DO* come and go alone, Bob -- even > >people who are born into the world in multiple > births. And David replied: > Well, that's a bit cynical, don't you think? When > you're born, God knows > Mama's there, right? And what if you are on your > death bed, and someone - > say, Joni Mitchell - is holding your hand, then you > are not alone, right? he > he I guess I am not expressing myself very well, guys. I didn't mean "alone" in the sense of wretched, pathetic aloneness, I meant it more in the we're-all-individuals-and-live-separate-lives way, if that makes it any clearer. Aloneness -- not loneliness -- is, I think, a central theme of the entire "Hejira" album. People will tell you where they've been They'll tell you where to go But till you get there yourself You never really know (I hope I got the words right. My Joni fact checker is off.) - --Smurf __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:02:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: janacec njc i thought i was the only janacek fan left in the world. last week i bought yet another jenufa (live with anja silja as the kostelnica!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and another vec makropulos (supraphone too). makropulos is one of my favorite operas. they're doing "the diary on one who disappeared" here in case you're visiting buenos aires next week, john :-) wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de John > Sprackland > Enviado el: Viernes, 04 de Marzo de 2005 06:17 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > CC: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org > Asunto: last 10 'CD' purchases > > > > > Janacek - Glagolithic Mass (Supraphon LP), conductor Charles Mackerras. > > > Thomas Zehetmair - Violin Concertos (Janacek, Berg. Hartmann). > > Ain't music great! > > John > Southport, UK ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #104 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)