From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #103 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 5 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 103 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) ["McMillan Brad" ] Yr Awr "Hyn O Fyd" - BSN in Welsh ["Ric Robinson" ] Re: masculinity NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Rufus njc [Richard Goldman ] Re: NJC - does Mr. Natural truck alone or unknown? NJC [Smurf ] line obsessed over last night in my sleep ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Mr. Joni Mitchell died of cirrhosis of the liver in 1992. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Irvin" To: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:48 PM Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > > Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease > > a few years back. > > You are thinking of another Chuck Mitchell: > > "Mitchell Johnus Geran, better know to music fans as "Chuck Mitchell", died > Monday, January 20, 2003 at his home near Baton Rouge at age 61." > > http://www.nothinbutdablues.com/BluesNews/2003/Page11.html#Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:25:13 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > Mr. Joni Mitchell died of cirrhosis of the liver in 1992. If you are referring to this link... http://www.geocities.com/cinemorgue2/chuckmitchell.html ...they are just plain wrong about the "Mr. Joni Mitchell" thing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:37:23 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Les; I saw that site, but also another one that reported the same thing. I suppose they both could be wrong. Anybody else have any info on this issue? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Irvin" To: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > > Mr. Joni Mitchell died of cirrhosis of the liver in 1992. > > If you are referring to this link... > > http://www.geocities.com/cinemorgue2/chuckmitchell.html > > ...they are just plain wrong about the "Mr. Joni Mitchell" thing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:49:04 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: SACD player: $125 njc Yo, A month ago, both my DVD player and CD player died. I picked up a Sony DVD player that also plays SACD and CD audio. And it spits out audio on a Coax RCA jack. Anyway, it does a terrific job on the Police' greatest hits which is an SACD/CD hybrid disc. On about 1/2 of the tracks, the bass sound is dramatically better than my old Police CDs. As I suspected, the Dylan hybrid discs "Desire" and "Blood On the Tracks" sound okay but... there's no real sound difference on my system. Anyway, when playing CDs, the Sony doesn't sound as good as the Panasonic portable did. Still, if someone's looking to replace a DVD player (and already has a good CD player) a budget SACD from Sony is a good idea. The world's 2nd most opinonated man, Jim L'Hommedieu Covington, KY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:54:43 -0000 From: "Ric Robinson" Subject: Yr Awr "Hyn O Fyd" - BSN in Welsh I now have this as an MP3, but it's a largeish file (8MB). If any of you want a copy I'll email it to you. Have fun, Ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:12:23 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) This is one of the things Chuck Mitchell is up to: http://www.fosterandtwain.us/index2.html - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Les Irvin Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 4:25 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > Mr. Joni Mitchell died of cirrhosis of the liver in 1992. If you are referring to this link... http://www.geocities.com/cinemorgue2/chuckmitchell.html ...they are just plain wrong about the "Mr. Joni Mitchell" thing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:32:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC Bob Muller wrote: > But it's actually "we all come and go UNKNOWN & not ALONE", right? Glad you clarified this, Bob. It is unknown. I just looked it up on the lyric sheet for the cd. > > And that's a better lyric - we don't necessarily come and go alone, > but even though we're surrounded by people and even companions & > close friends, we're probably closer to unknown in nature. It's like > the difference in "lonely" and "alone". I've been listening to the Starbucks collection and also 'Dreamland' which I recently picked up on sale at Tower Records and it occurred to me that this idea of isolation or being alone is another recurrent theme in Joni's songs, especially, it seems to me, on more recent recordings. 'Come in From the Cold' comes to mind as does 'Turbulent Indigo'. CIFTC is about the desire to leave that cold isolation and find the warmth of communion with kindred spirits. Turbulent Indigo's last verse deals with the artist, alone with his visions, hoping for someone to come and warm themselves at the hearth of his passion. Back in ACOY of you Joni described herself as a lonely painter who lives in a box of paints. The theme runs through the song 'Hejira' in the line quoted above and the lines about all of us being particles of change orbiting around the sun. But in this case, connection with another seems to be a form of surrender. 'Amelia' talks about Joni spending her whole life in clouds at icy altitudes. Just some thoughts Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:38:48 EST From: Allmanfan54@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #102 I don't get it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:54:47 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #102 Allmanfan54@aol.com wrote: > I don't get it. What? The digest? Mark E. in Seattle? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:01:23 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: masculinity NJC Yours could be a very interesting paper, Mike. Your thesis (to the extent you described it) piques my interest. Good luck with that. Go ahead and break a leg, will you? :-) I'd refer you to the classic "John Henry the Steel Driving Man" for starters. Here's some excellent research, which I highly recommend for historical background: http://www.ibiblio.org/john_henry/analysis_unedited.html Here's one of many popular versions of the song's lyrics, as done by Johnny Cash: Artist/Band: Cash Johnny Lyrics for Song: Legend of John Henry's Hammer Lyrics for Album: 16 Biggest Hits John Henry's pappy woke him up one midnight He said, "'Fore the sheriff comes I wanna tell you - listen boy! Said, Learn to ball a jack, learn to lay a track, learn to pick and shovel too, And take my hammer! It'll do anything you tell it to. John Henry's mammy had about a dozen babies, John Henry's pappy broke jail about a dozen times The babies all got sick and when the doctor wanted money, He said, I'll pay you quarter at a time startin' tomorrow That's the pay for a steel driver on this line. Then the section foreman said, Hey - hammer swinger! I see you brought you own hammer boy, but what else can all those muscles do And he said, I can turn a jack, I can lay a track, I can pick and shovel too (Can you swing a hammer boy?) Yes, Sir, I?ll do anything you hire me to. Now ain't you something! So high and mighty wif' your muscles! Just go ahead, boy, and pick up that hammer! Pick up the hammer! He said, Get a rusty spike and swing it down three times. I'll pay you a nickel a day for every inch you sink it to. Go on and do what you say you can do. With a steep nose hammer on a four foot switch handle, John Henry raised it back 'til it touched his heels. Then The spike went through the cross tie, and it split it half in two. Thirty-five cents a day for drivin' steel. (Sweat! Sweat boy, sweat! You owe me two more swings!) I was born for driven steel. Well John Henry hammered in the mountain. He'd give a grunt and he'd give a groan with every swing. The women folks for miles around heard him and come down, To watch him make the cold steel ring. Lord what a swinger! Just listen to that cold steel ring! But the bad boss come up laughin' at John Henry. Said, You full of vinegar now, but you about through! We gonna get a steam drill to do your share of drivin?, Then what's all them muscles gonna do? Huh, John Henry? Gonna take a little bit of vinegar out of you. John Henry said, I feed four little brothers, And baby sister's walking on her knees. Did the lord say that machines aughtta take the place of living? And what's a substitute for bread and beans? (I saint seen it) Do engines get rewarded for their steam John Henry hid in a coal mine for his dinner nap. Had thirty minutes to rest before the bell. The mine boss hollered, Get up, whoever you are, and get a pick axe! Give me enough coal to start another Hell. (And keep it burnin!) Mine me enough to start another Hell! John Henry said to his captain, A man ain't nothin' but a man. But if you'll bring that steam drill round, I'll beat it fair and honest. I'll die with my hammer in my hand but I'll be laughing 'Cuz you can't replace a steel driven man. There was a big crowd of people at the mountain, John Henry said to the steam drill, How is you? Pardon me mister steam drill, I suppose you didn't hear me. I said how're you Well can you turn a jack, can you lay a track, can you pick and shovel too? Listen - this hammer swinger's talkin' to you! 2000 people hollered, Go, John Henry! Then somebody hollered, The mountain's caving in! John Henry told the captain, Tell the kind folks don't worry. That ain't nothin' but my hammer suckin' wind! (It keeps me breathing.) A steel driver's muscle I intend. Captain, tell the people, move back further! I'm at the finish line and there ain't no drill. It's so far behind, but yet ain't got the brains to quit it! When she blows up she'll scatter cross the hills! (Lord Lordy!) When she blows up she'll scatter cross the hills! Well John Henry had a little woman, I believe the lady's name was Polly Ann. (Yeah that was his good woman.) John Henry threw his hammer over his shoulder and went on home. He laid down to rest his weary back, and early next mornin', he said, Come here Polly Ann Come here Sugar Ya know, I believe this is the first time I ever watched the sun come up That I couldn't come up. Take my hammer, Polly Ann, and go to that railroad. Swing that hammer like you seen me do it. And when you're swinging with the lead man, They'll all know they'll all know you're John Henry's woman But, but tell them ain't all you can do. Tell 'em I can hoist a jack, and I can lay a track, I can pick and shovel too! (Ain't no machine can!) That's been proved to you! There was a big crowd of mourners at the church house. The section hands laid him in the sand. Trains go by on the rails John Henry laid. They slow down and take off their hats, the men do. When they come to the place John Henry's layin', restin' his back, Some of 'em say, 'Mornin', steel driver! You shor' was a hammer swinger! Then they go on by, pickin' up a little speed. (Clickity clack, clickity clack, clickity clack, clickity clack) Yonder lies a steel drivin' man, oh lord! Yonder lies a steel drivin' man. Yonder lies a steel drivin' man, oh lord! Yonder lies a steel drivin' man. Yonder lies a steel drivin' man, oh lord! Yonder lies a steel drivin' man. - -End- - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:03:56 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Rufus njc Ok, I will chime in here since I'm acquainted with Rufus personally, and have known him before his rehab and subsequent recovery. Kate & Loudon were not accepting of him at a very early age, Jerry. They had a hard time dealing with this precocious, sexually and otherwise, 14 year old coming out to them. They did not accept him initially. Like many many gay people, affluent or not, homophobia gets internalized in our culture from very young ages. Your work does mountains to help undo that damage and those early wounds in the community you're working with, so thanks for that, Jerry. I live in San Francisco, crystal meth addiction is beyond rampant here in the gay community, people lack the self-esteem to act better, even if they do 'know better'. It is an all too sad common occurence. Rufus wasn't unlike any other well-off kid, with artist parents, who happened to be gay. He even tried to be heterosexual for awhile while up at school in Millbrook, NY, needless to say, that didn't work. He buried his true and painful feelings, around his rape in London, his self-doubt, and his internalized homophobia, with drugs: crystel meth being his drug-of-choice, but he abused many... So anyway, he's never whined about being a victim, on the contrary, he accepts total responsibility for what he did, and how he got there, and he got better on his own, with a little help from his friends, Elton, and family. The final track on latest album, Want Two, "An Old Whore's Diet" was written while quite under the influence on weekend in NYC and he talks about it on the album commentary, online on his websites, in Discorgraphy, it's hilarious actually, you all would like to hear it. No regrets, that boy has none. Anyhoo...he is doing super-well know, over 2 years under his belt, in recovery, singing and writing better than ever, his voice still hasn't reached its peak, and ... he's cut out, or way way down, his cigarette smoking, so as not to ruin it. He's on a 39 city European tour with his full band, and probably bigger there than he is in The States. He's happy and clear and bright. He's written 3 songs for a new Disney animated flick that's going to be way cook ala Nilson's "The Point", is working on an opera, and ... talks of a Broadway musical score ... based on Armistead Maupin's "Tales of The City".....and ... just you wait, JMDLr's. . . I believe there is a big fabulous surprise in store for us all in the form of Rufus and Joni, but I don't have any more details than the vagueries I've been told. Richard n.p. "Take Me Out", Scissor Sisters cover of Franz Ferdinand Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:55:57 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rufus njc > What a wonderful service you provide Jerry! Thanks, Kate. I didn't realize you were referring to his affluence. I know lots of > parents who have kicked their kids out because of drug abuse and it has been > one of the hardest things they've ever had to do. Some are affluent, some > are not. What I was referring to is parents who kick their kids out for being gay. It's on the streets that they end up getting addicted. Rufus' parents were very accepting of his being gay at a very young age. He was very fortunate. Jerry - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC - does Mr. Natural truck alone or unknown? NJC If there's one thing that bugs the poop out of me, it's when Bob Muller is right and I'm, well, less than right. Muller wrote: << But it's actually "we all come and go UNKNOWN & not ALONE", right? >> I was so sure the Bobster was wrong wrong wrong about this, I whipped out my trusty "Hejira," and, lo and behold, he was ... right. Damn! Muller also went on to hunt 'n peck this opinion: << And that's a better lyric - we don't necessarily come and go alone, but even though we're surrounded by people and even companions & close friends, we're probably closer to unknown in nature. >> Finally! A Muller thought with which I can wholeheartedly disagree! We absolutely *DO* come and go alone, Bob -- even people who are born into the world in multiple births. And we also "come and go" alone as we move through any day, whether or not we're surrounded by people. Whether my misheard lyric is better, I can't say yet because I have to let "come and go unknown" sink in and become part of my molecular-level Joni conciousness. I'll let you know which one I prefer in about a year or so. Have fun up in Raleigh, Bob. Happy weekend, everyone. - --Smurf __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC - does Mr. Natural truck alone or unknown? NJC Smurf wrote: 'Natch - a no-brainer. And hang your head for not knowing the words to the BEST SONG EVER WRITTEN... Well...what about your MOTHER, brainiac? I would think that SHE is very much there, right? As is (typically) a Doctor and other medical folks. Perhaps the magical Smurf just popped out of a puff of blue smoke? Thanks - I am. Bob - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC - does Mr. Natural truck alone or unknown, Joan? NJC Bob wrote: << 'Natch - a no-brainer. And hang your head for not knowing the words to the BEST SONG EVER WRITTEN... >> Hang this, Muller. The best song ever written will always be "Born Free." And sorry I misheard your precious lyrics, pal, BUT I'M DEAF. Now how do you feel? Regarding attendees to my birth, Muller spews: << Well...what about your MOTHER, brainiac? I would think that SHE is very much there, right? As is (typically) a Doctor and other medical folks. >> So, yeh had to go an' bring up me muddah, did ya, Muller? Fact is, she has always denied being "very much there" at my birth because she was unconscious with drugs, prescribed by a physician, of course. You didn't think I was a product of *natural* birth, did you? Muller also cackles: << Perhaps the magical Smurf just popped out of a puff of blue smoke? >> Undoubtedly. Everyone smoked then. Even babies. - --Smurf, who comes and goes alone, unknown & with Joan __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:49:25 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Not sure if I can remember all 10... and these are not in order, so:- Tori Amos - The Beekeeper Tori Amos - To Venus and Back Tori Amos - From the Choirgirl Motel Lemon Jelly - .ky Jean Michel-Jarre - Aero (wow, like going back to my Childhood, just in 5.1) Jesse Harris & The Ferdinandos - While The Music Lasts (saw him live just after JF 2004 in NYC) James Taylor - Pull Over (OK, live DVD, but close and OH SO GOOD) Lucie Silvas - Breathe In (but commercial, but all her own and she deserves success) Stuff I've borrowed and need to buy:- James Taylor - October Road James Taylor - Hourglass Loving both these (a lot) - really really good stuff. It's teatime tho - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 02:19:59 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: line obsessed over last night in my sleep Joni said, >>long silk stockings on the bedpost of refinement>> Em, You're off your game. Ordinarily you'd nail this within an hour. Are you sleep deprived? Anyway, here's my take on this line. There were "prescribed standards" (ha! extra points!) for society folks in Ludwig's day. Like Jackson Pollock, he was a bit of a social oddity. When Joni wrote the song, brass beds were old-fashioned, not yet retro. The rigid framework of Ludwig's day (refinement) is made tangible and visible as a bedpost. (Only Joni Mitchell would have the chutzpah to write "bedposts of refinement". Only Joni Mitchell, having tried to sing Annie Ross' "Cloudburst", would have the verbal aptitude to sing those syllables, stay in pitch, and make the meter work. Her muse, Sadie, was with her that day.) Ludwig's casualness and comfort (stockings) clashed with the norms (decorum of the bedpost). Would "long silk stockings" roughly translate as "full-length pajamas"? Are there any history buffs reading the JMDL this week? Maybe Ludwig had an indiscrete "thing" going with a lady other than his wife, so her "silk stockings" represent a mis-step. Can you help me out now? In "Blue", is the "ink on a pin /underneath the skin" a clever foreshadowing of an artist shooting (needles) or just an accident? It's too bad you got "here" after Julie Z. Webb, and Kakki left. They were really good at this stuff. Maybe Jenny or Muller will jump in here. They love the literary angles too. All the best, Lama PS, Did Martha Stewart's 15 minutes of fame get reset this week? Em said, >what a phrase! The bedpost of refinement! What the heck is the bedpost of refinement????? Sounds like the name of an early 20th century painting! and then I enjoyed thinking well, ok if "you" is Joni then they are her stockings, blah blah blah...But! if "you" is ol' Ludwig, then he's gettin' him some. Unless he also has long silk stockings - which I guess men were more apt to have back then. Anyway, I just turned that phrase over and over in my head, not sure why; hadn't been listening to that song or anything. Was chewing on it like a dog chews a bone.> ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #103 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)