From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #102 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, March 4 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 102 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- line obsessed over last night in my sleep [Em ] Portrait of Joni Part 2 on CKUA [Bob Muller ] Martha Wainwright article (njc, well just a quick Joni mention) [Brian Gr] Re: Make yourself a montage out of anyone or anything -- NJC really [FMYF] Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Rufus njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC [Bob Muller ] NJC Googlefighting NJC [Bob Muller ] RE: NJC Googlefighting NJC ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and ["] RE: Rufus njc ["Kate Bennett" ] The Canadian Folk Music Awards are coming! (some Joni content) [Brian Gro] Re: Rufus njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and [B] Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC [Em ] Re: Rufus njc [kate@katebennett.com] RE: last 10 cd purchases NJC ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: last 10 cd purchases NJC [Em ] Steely Dan (pre-steely actually) NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Steely Dan (pre-steely actually) NJC [Em ] masculinity ["mike pritchard" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC [Em ] Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC ["ron" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) ["McMillan Brad" Subject: line obsessed over last night in my sleep "long silk stockings on the bedpost of refinement" (and then of course "you're too raw") but what a phrase! The bedpost of refinement! What the heck is the bedpost of refinement????? Sounds like the name of an early 20th century painting! and then I enjoyed thinking well, ok if "you" is Joni then they are her stockings, blah blah blah...But! if "you" is ol' Ludwig, then he's gettin' him some. Unless he also has long silk stockings - which I guess men were more apt to have back then. Anyway, I just turned that phrase over and over in my head, not sure why; hadn't been listening to that song or anything. Was chewing on it like a dog chews a bone. Was fun I suppose. lol, just thought I'd share. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall while she was writing that song. :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 04:21:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Portrait of Joni Part 2 on CKUA http://www.ckua.com/ You can listen on the web to this broadcast; it comes on at 9:00 AM Mountain time this Saturday, that's 11:00 AM my time on the East Coast. I enjoyed Part 1, and was a bit surprised that it went all the way from STAS to C&S...most of these sorts of things spend 90% of their time in this period and ignore 90% of 1980 on. The biggest goof on the narrator's part was saying that Joni's marriage to Chuck dissolved between Clouds & LOTC... Bob NP: Badly Drawn Boy, "40 Days, 40 Fights" - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 05:57:54 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Martha Wainwright article (njc, well just a quick Joni mention) http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/interviews/story.jsp?story=616601 Interesting article for those of you interested in her music Happy Friday everyone! Shabbat Shalom Brian in south jersey Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:35:40 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Make yourself a montage out of anyone or anything -- NJC really I've enjoyed making montages all morning Smurph! While you're googling, check out googlefight.com I put Joni's name and all these other female singers, and Joni lost :( I even put Joni's name and "the maid", and Joni lost that fight too! I did put Bob Murphy and Bob Muller against each other and guess who won that fight? Happy weekend, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 09:58:52 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Lost In The Stars: The Music Of Kurt Weill Various Artists Shoot Out At The Fantasy Factory [Gold Disc] Traffic Heart & Soul [IMPORT] Joe Cocker Want Two Rufus Wainwright Over The Rainbow Jimmy Scott With A Song In My Heart: The Rodgers &... Wesla Whitfield 7 Seconds: The Best Of Youssou N'Dour Youssou N'Dour THE EVERLY BROTHERS - THE COMPLETE CADENCE RECORDINGS DINAH WASHINGTON - WHAT A DIFFERENCE A DAY MAKES THE ROMANTICS - A WINDHAM HILL SAMPLER Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:07:29 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rufus njc I am well aware of the addiction. I spend my Thursday nights counseling gay and lesbian addicts at our local Metro Center. Most of them came from much less educated, prosperous, affluent, and advantageous backgrounds than Rufus, who delved into the use of "tina" despite knowing how highly addictive and destructive it is. I feel much more sorry for the street kids I counsel because they were kicked out of their homes because their parents were far less tolerant or supportive or rich as Loudun or Kate. That was my point. Jerry > the devastation that this drug has brought to california & now across the > usa is epidemic... it is extremely dangerous, destructive & as addicting > (or more some say) than heroin... jerry count your blessings... > > as to whether rufus is complaining when he speaks of his addiction & > recovery i have no idea- i only read one article that i thought was very > courageous & had no complaining in it... > > Jerry Notaro wrote: >> He absolutely has changed significantly since his recovery. But I also >> have >> a problem with someone complaining about their 6 solid years of sex and >> drugs. I should be so unlucky! >> >> Jerry :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:16:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: Boy, that's an awesome record...you can always count on Hal Willner to come up with ingenious pairings of performer & song. I epecially love the Todd Rundgren, Stan Ridgway, and of course the Tom Waits, and there's even some Lou Reed for Smurfy boy(September Song). I can't deal with the Henry Threadgill though. Come to think of it, I'd love to hear Joni sing September Song, that's a song that would fit her now world-weary pipes. And another winner! I do love me some Dinah Washington. Bob NP: Eric Clapton, "Motherless Children" - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:21:35 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Googlefighting NJC Thanks for the link, Jimmy! That's addictive & fun. I put in "Jimmy Stewart" & "Mike Tyson" and you kicked his ass. I KNEW you were a true macho man. LOL Bob NP: The Replacements, "Talent Show" - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:03:07 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: NJC Googlefighting NJC There's hope! In the fight between Joni Mitchell and cesspool, Joni emerges as the clear winner! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muller Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 10:22 AM To: FMYFL@aol.com; smurfadelica@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC Googlefighting NJC Thanks for the link, Jimmy! That's addictive & fun. I put in "Jimmy Stewart" & "Mike Tyson" and you kicked his ass. I KNEW you were a true macho man. LOL Bob NP: The Replacements, "Talent Show" - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:28:35 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and I love this! This is the best nutshell version of life and relationships I have ever heard in my life. 'Tis a keeper - Bob, can I borrow this? Bob Muller wroter:"It's like subway rides - we each have distinct destinations, but from time to time we travel together, getting and giving help." Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:37:25 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Rufus njc What a wonderful service you provide Jerry! When you said if only you were so unlucky I thought you meant you thought he was having a fun time for six years. I didn't realize you were referring to his affluence. I know lots of parents who have kicked their kids out because of drug abuse and it has been one of the hardest things they've ever had to do. Some are affluent, some are not. It is often the hardest thing a parent has to do- to let their addict child go & learn for themselves & to stop enabling them in their drug use. Every recovering addict I've talked to said they had to do it on their own- that nothing their parents or loved ones did or said could make them stop. Most of the stories I've heard from kids in recovery said they didn't start to recover until their parents kicked them out, stopped supporting them, etc. I know parents whose kids overdosed on the street while others have overdosed while living at home. I don't know whether Rufus knew better than to use the drug. I think there is a perception among young kids that it is not dangerous so they try it & feel powerful & if they are an addict, they get hooked big time. Kids try stuff & some people can walk away & some people can't. If only addiction was predictable & preventable. It would save a lot of lives. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:41:29 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: The Canadian Folk Music Awards are coming! (some Joni content) http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2005/03/04/pf-950143.html March 4, 2005 Canadian folk music awards on tap By FISH GRIWKOWSKY -- Edmonton Sun There are those who complain about the limitations of reality and there are those who change it. This is not to say that there's not always complaining done, but isn't it better when someone gets out of their chair and rolls up their sleeves? Roots music junkie Rod Campbell is clearly in the second category, and it's largely thanks to him and a few dedicated others that Canada will be having its own national folk music awards ceremony next winter. The freshman event is slated for Dec. 3 in Ottawa's Grand Hall, part of the beautiful Museum of Civilization. The idea began independently in the minds of Campbell and Grit Laskin, a heavy hitter in the acoustic guitar-makers' world. The two had both agonized over the way folk music was recognized in this country. "At the Junos," normally jovial Campbell sighs, "folk and traditional music is more like an afterthought. How this all got going is they tried to drop one of the categories, then they moved it from the main day to the (non-televised backup) day. "It got to the point where it was almost embarrassing that we'd take that approach to this music! I mean, think of all the Hall of Famers, or whatever you want to call them. People like Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell and Neil Young. They all came through folk and the whole country got recognized for it." One of the reasons Campbell is a good man to have on this project is the existence of his magazine Penguin Eggs, a microscopically thorough look at folk music which runs several editions annually. Produced locally, distributed across North America and by subscription worldwide, it has survived five years in an era of general print stagnation. It, too, was hoisted as a defence for traditional music by the Scottish-born publisher. "I wrote an editorial two years ago that Grit Laskin picked up on. He called me up and said he'd already done a blueprint of how such an event would work a couple years earlier. I was willing to do it myself, but Grit stepped in and said, 'Here's how we do it,' and he was right. He makes these beautiful guitars and he's part of a craft guild that does a lot of work with the Museum of Civilization. "We asked them on board and they were just delighted! They waived a lot of the fees and give us a lot of credibility. That's the reason it's in Ottawa at first. We'd like to do it in Edmonton next year, depending on how it goes, but in two years if not next. Eventually, we'll move it around the country every year." There are 17 categories, variations of best artist, songwriter, instrumentalist and producer variously, some broken down to traditional, contemporary, English, French and aboriginal categories - as well as a nod to emerging artists and a lifetime achievement award. The cutoff dates for eligible recordings will be release dates between Aug. 1, 2004, and one year later, and submission information will be available soon on the non-profit CFMA's under-construction website. Campbell says jurists will come from outside the organizers to avoid any conflicts of interest. "We have to take an arm's length, juried by people not involved in the industry. (CFMA organizer) Bill Garrett, for example, helps run Borealis Records. And we'll have French and aboriginal jurists to help decide those awards. "It's all going to be quite substantial." Remember this lesson, people: If you don't like the way something works, build something better. Hats off to the CFMAs. Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:55:57 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rufus njc > What a wonderful service you provide Jerry! Thanks, Kate. I didn't realize you were referring to his affluence. I know lots of > parents who have kicked their kids out because of drug abuse and it has been > one of the hardest things they've ever had to do. Some are affluent, some > are not. What I was referring to is parents who kick their kids out for being gay. It's on the streets that they end up getting addicted. Rufus' parents were very accepting of his being gay at a very young age. He was very fortunate. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:59:46 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Em said >>Last song that unexpectedly seemed more brilliant than ever? "Idiot Wind" as I was listening to Blood on the Tracks taking my walk yesterday. "Idiot Wind blowing in circles round my skull, from the Grand Coulee Dam to the capitullllll...."<< And then there's the beautiful 'Blood on the Tracks' outtakes (available from people on this list) with alternate but equally wonderful lyrics... maybe you have this already? mike in barcelona np Tom Waits - real gone npimh - from the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Graaaaaaaaah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:02:39 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and mia ortlieb wrote: Absolutely, Mia - I'm flattered. I have a habit of applying analogies to things, sometimes it helps me to better understand something (or to help someone else understand a point). Glad it struck a chord with you. Bob - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Hi Mike, I'm pretty sure I've heard an alternate version of at least Tangled Up In Blue. Not sure if it was a studio outtake though, or simply a concert version. I have a concert album from about the time of Blood on the Tracks and Desire that I think had wayyyyyy diff versions. Like a real crazy Maggie's Farm. Mardi Grahhhhhhh huh??? Mike is there a "parallel" Carnivale-type celebration in Barcelona? Em ps: if anyone knows where I can view the lyrics to the early Becker and Fagen bootleg song called "More to Come" that would be way cool..have found several from that era posted online, but can't find that one song....greaaaaaaaaaat lyrics.. --- mike pritchard wrote: > Em said > >>Last song that unexpectedly seemed more brilliant than ever? "Idiot > Wind" as I was listening to Blood on the Tracks taking my walk > yesterday. > "Idiot Wind blowing in circles round my skull, > from the Grand Coulee Dam to the capitullllll...."<< > > And then there's the beautiful 'Blood on the Tracks' outtakes > (available from people on this list) with alternate but equally > wonderful lyrics... maybe you have this already? > mike in barcelona > np Tom Waits - real gone > npimh - from the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Graaaaaaaaah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:20 -0800 (PST) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: Rufus njc oh, okay... got it... how terribly sad they kick their kids out for being gay... i can't imagine doing that... how lucky they are to have you to help them... what a gem you are jerry! > What I was referring to is parents who kick their kids out for being gay. > It's on the streets that they end up getting addicted. Rufus' parents were > very accepting of his being gay at a very young age. He was very > fortunate. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:25:20 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: last 10 cd purchases NJC "Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your jaw From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Gras" Here are the lyrics to one of the alternate versions: Idiot Wind Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out quick, when they will I can only guess They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me I can't help it if I'm lucky. People see me all the time and they just can't remember how to act Their minds are filled with big ideas, images and distorted facts And even you yesterday, you had to ask me where it was at, I couldn't believe after all these years, you didn't know me any better than that, Sweet lady Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your mouth Blowing down the back roads headin' south Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth You're an idiot babe, It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe. I threw the I Ching yesterday, it said there might be some thunder at the well Peace and quiet's been avoiding me for so long, it seems like livin' hell There's a lone soldier on the hill watching fallin' raindrops pour You'd never know it to look at him, but at the final shot he won the war After losing every battle. I woke up on the roadside, daydreamin' about the way things sometimes are Hoofbeats poundin' in my head at breakneck speed and makin' me see stars You hurt the ones that I love best and cover up the truth with lies One day you'll be in the ditch, flies buzzing around your eyes Blood on your saddle. Idiot wind, blowing through the flowers on your tomb Blowing through the curtains in your room Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth You're an idiot babe, It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe. It was gravity which pulled us in, and destiny which broke us apart You tamed the lion in my cage but it just wasn't enough to change my heart Now everything's a little upside down as a matter of fact the wheels have stopped What's good is bad, what's bad is good, you'll find out when you reach the top You're on the bottom I noticed at the ceremony that you left all your bags behind The driver came in after you left, he gave them all to me, and then he resigned The priest wore black on the seventh day, waltzed around while the building burned You didn't trust me for a minute, babe, I've never known the spring to turn So quickly into autumn. Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your jaw From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Gras Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth You're an idiot babe, It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe. We pushed each other a little too far and one day it just jumped into a raging storm A hound dog bayed behind your trees, as I was packin' up my uniform I figured I'd lost you anyway, why go on, what's the use? In order to get in a word with you, I'd had to come up with some excuse And that just struck me kinda funny. I've been double-crossed too much, at times I think I've almost lost my mind Lady killers load dice on me, behind my back, while imitators steal me blind You close your eyes and part your lips and slip your fingers from your glove You can have the best there is, but it's gonna cost you all your love You won't get it for money. Idiot wind, blowing through the buttons of our coats, Blowing through the letters that we wrote Idiot wind, blowing through the dust upon our shelves We're idiots babe, It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of mike pritchard Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:00 PM To: Em Cc: list Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC Em said >>Last song that unexpectedly seemed more brilliant than ever? "Idiot Wind" as I was listening to Blood on the Tracks taking my walk yesterday. "Idiot Wind blowing in circles round my skull, from the Grand Coulee Dam to the capitullllll...."<< And then there's the beautiful 'Blood on the Tracks' outtakes (available from people on this list) with alternate but equally wonderful lyrics... maybe you have this already? mike in barcelona np Tom Waits - real gone npimh - from the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Graaaaaaaaah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: RE: last 10 cd purchases NJC Got it! so there's where Mike got the Mardi Gras-jaw rhyme from! very cool! I like that I-Ching verse.... hehehhhh, thanks Richard. Em - --- Richard Flynn wrote: > "Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your jaw > > From the Grand Coulee Dam to the Mardi Gras" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Steely Dan (pre-steely actually) NJC Em wrote: Found it here, Em: http://hem.passagen.se/tomasbro/ More To Come The fish are flying in the county sea The cops are searching for a missing pea And Billy Burroughs is still on the nod Be with the girl if I'm not a dandy guy But be assured that if this shaking world Is sucked into the sun [Chorus:] More to come More to come And when the seventh day at last is gone More to come More to come The ladies sure looked like they're craving for me But ain't that just what they're supposed to be I hear the man is moving in next door The boys will have to use the second floor You might have answers I can understand But I know only one [Chorus] The kids have thorn a yellow packet apart They've got enough to break a rich mans heart I see the rats have found the cradle again I'll let you know if I remember when There's one conclusion that I must defend It's where we started from [Chorus] Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:18:45 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Steely Dan (pre-steely actually) NJC OMG! you rock so hard! I love that line about the shaking world being sucked into the sun....hehh..great stuff. Wish they'd negotiate an officially blessed repackaging of this pre-Dan stuff. Thanks Bob; I'd looked and looked and couldn't find those. Weird little song..crazy vocals too. :) Em ps but you know what? I think the lyrics are wrong! dandy guy is actually something about whipping up another demi-god..and "yellow packet" is I think a yellow Packard... thus it would break a rich man's heart... - --- Bob Muller wrote: > Em wrote: > and > Fagen bootleg song called "More to Come" that would be way cool..have > found several from that era posted online, but can't find that one > song....greaaaaaaaaaat lyrics..> > > Found it here, Em: http://hem.passagen.se/tomasbro/ > > More To Come > > The fish are flying in the county sea > The cops are searching for a missing pea > And Billy Burroughs is still on the nod > Be with the girl if I'm not a dandy guy > But be assured that if this shaking world > Is sucked into the sun > > [Chorus:] > More to come > More to come > And when the seventh day at last is gone > More to come > More to come > > The ladies sure looked like they're craving for me > But ain't that just what they're supposed to be > I hear the man is moving in next door > The boys will have to use the second floor > You might have answers I can understand > But I know only one > > [Chorus] > > The kids have thorn a yellow packet apart > They've got enough to break a rich mans heart > I see the rats have found the cradle again > I'll let you know if I remember when > There's one conclusion that I must defend > It's where we started from > > [Chorus] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:38:29 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: masculinity Here I am again with more details about my request for help with 'sexist lyrics'. Actually the thesis is about masculinity (in all its aspects) and how it is represented in popular song. The 'men killing women in song' paper I wrote a couple of years ago will be part of this but the thesis is much wider in scope than 'only' violence against women. I am especially interested in how masculinity is transmitted from generation to generation; how it is reinforced in (as bell hooks would say) 'imperialist, white-supremacist capitalist patriarchy' and the effect of peer pressure, especially in single sex groups (i.e. think rugby clubs, army, etc). There are many songs which give insights into these processes and to mention just three off the top of my head there would be the Four Seasons' 'Walk Like A Man', Springsteen's 'River'...they bring you up to do, like your daddy done, and Kenny Rogers' Coward of the County' - 'sometimes you have to fight when you're a man'. There are many songs which deal with 'resistance' to representation, 'Goodbye Earl' comes to mind here although it is not exactly what I was thinking of here. Any references to popular songs (define this as you will) would help me immensely and any suggestions of academic or popular writing on this topic would be welcome too. I have not marked this NJC as there are obviously some joni songs which are relevant here, not to blame, especially. Thanks in advance, mike in barcelona NP - Nebraska outtakes -Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:00:05 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC Smurf; That's the line I thought of when I read Em's question! Religions and philosophical systems deal with the ultimate "aloneness" of the individual in different ways. In some systems, for example, the feeling of separation and aloneness is balanced by a belief in a collective spirit that makes the individual part of the whole of humanity. This idea is really just a repudiation of our ultimate fate to"come and go alone". Like heaven is a repudiation of the finality of death. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smurf" To: "Em" ; "jonilist" Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC > Em asks: > > << Just wondering if most or any of you feel "solo" in this world and that > other people (even SO's) are characters in your play? or are we all in > the same damn play? >> > > I think I have to agree with what all the girls say when they discuss me: For me, it's all about me. > > I feel extremely solo, but that's because I am! In fact, we all are. As someone more talented that I once observed, "We call come and go alone." > > --Smurf > > > > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:57:55 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Dylan's book, brief Joni mentions Em wrote: > Hi Mike, I'm pretty sure I've heard an alternate version of at least > Tangled Up In Blue. Not sure if it was a studio outtake though, or > simply a concert version. There is a wonderful studio alternate version of TUIB on one of the Columbia "bootleg series" releases. Speaking of Dylan, I just finished his book "Chronicles Volume One"- and found it completely fascinating from stem to stern. Each of the five chapters focuses on a specific period of his life, the first and last being his pre-fame days in NYC. Also a chapter on the making of "Oh Mercy" with Daniel Lanois in New Orleans, and another about '68 and his horror with his own fame. He seems to remember every detail, what was in the papers, who had a song on the charts, people's names...very well written, easy to read, a unique voice, kind of a strange man.... The very brief Joni mentions: page101: It's funny how things stick with you. About ten years later ['70?] I was having dinner at Johnny Cash's house outside of Nashville. There were a lot of songwriters there. Joni Mitchell, Graham Nash, Harlan Howard, Kris Kristofferson, Mickey Newberry and some others. Joe and Janette Carter were also there. Joe and Janette were the son and daughter of A.P. and Sarah Carter and cousins to June Carter, Johnny's wife. They were like the royalty of country music. Johnny's big fireplace was blazing and crackling. After dinner, everybody sat around in the rustic living room with high wooden beams and wide plate-glass windows that over-looked a lake. We sat in a circle and each songwriter would play a song and pass the guitar to the next player. Usually, there'd be comments made like "You really nailed that one." Or "Yeah, man, you said it all in them few lines." Or maybe something like "That song's got a lot of history in it." Or "You put all yourself into that tune." Mostly just complimentary stuff. I played "Lay, Lady, Lay" and then I passed the guitar to Graham Nash, anticipating some kind of response. I didn't have to wait long. "You don't eat pork, do you?" Joe Carter asked. That was his comment. I waited for a second before replying. "Uh, no sir, I don't," I said back. Kristofferson almost swallowed his fork. Joe asked, "Why not?" It's then that I remembered what Malcolm X had said. "Well, sir, it's kind of a personal thing. I don't eat that stuff, no. I don'teat something that's one third rat, one third cat and one third dog. It just doesn't taste right." There was an awkward momentary silence that you could have cut with one of the knives off the dinner table. Johnny Cash then almost doubled over. Kristofferson just shook his head. Joe Carter was quite a character. page 254: (he's talking about Joan Baez, who was "the Queen of the Folksingers", and only had one album out at the time: There was no one like her. It would be a few years before Judy Collins or Joni Mitchell would come on the scene. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:04:34 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC hi Brad and Smurf, where does that line come from? I don't recognize it. :) Em thx! - --- McMillan Brad wrote: > Smurf; > That's the line I thought of when I read Em's question! > Religions and philosophical systems deal with the ultimate > "aloneness" of > the individual in different ways. In some systems, for example, the > feeling > of separation and aloneness is balanced by a belief in a collective > spirit > that makes the individual part of the whole of humanity. This idea is > really > just a repudiation of our ultimate fate to"come and go alone". Like > heaven > is a repudiation of the finality of death. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smurf" > To: "Em" ; "jonilist" > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:30 PM > Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way > ot and > smarmy NJC > > > > Em asks: > > > > << Just wondering if most or any of you feel "solo" in this world > and that > > other people (even SO's) are characters in your play? or are we all > in > > the same damn play? >> > > > > I think I have to agree with what all the girls say when they > discuss me: > For me, it's all about me. > > > > I feel extremely solo, but that's because I am! In fact, we all > are. As > someone more talented that I once observed, "We call come and go > alone." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:13:34 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease a few years back. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "." Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > Dear Joni Friends, > > When I saw the name "Chuck Mitchell" on the list of registrants for > last week's Folk Alliance conference in Montreal, I thought "Could it be?" > I'd seen Joni's ex in Atlanta in the 70's and wondered if it could be the > same. Well, it was. I went to a showcase he did, and thought I recognised > him, but the fact that his second song was The Circle Game was a dead > giveaway. :) > > He is a very interesting performer, weaving poetry and spoken word > pieces into the songs, which he often runs together. I was really > impressed with how good he was. > > He's a very affable fellow. We chatted afterwards, and discussed the > possibility of him coming out (from Iowa) to play the concert series. > Stay tuned. > > I loved Montreal, BTW. > > *************************************************** > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@comcast.net > "The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org > "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:10:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: masculinity njc It seems like you'd have to include every love song ever written, as there is always something to be inferred about masculinity and femininity in them... ...anyway, one song that came to mind is "Stand By Your Man", Tammy Wynette, which, to paraphase, says in the woman's voice that it's hard to deal with men, because they are basically idiots led around by their dicks, but your place as a woman is to support him proudly, no matter what. I'm not sure how much of this song was meant to be tongue in cheek, but it certainly expresses a certain tradional viewpoint about manhood and the balance between the sexes. RR mike pritchard wrote: > Here I am again with more details about my request for help with 'sexist > lyrics'. Actually the thesis is about masculinity (in all its aspects) and how > it is represented in popular song. The 'men killing women in song' paper I > wrote a couple of years ago will be part of this but the thesis is much wider > in scope than 'only' violence against women. I am especially interested in how > masculinity is transmitted from generation to generation; how it is reinforced > in (as bell hooks would say) 'imperialist, white-supremacist capitalist > patriarchy' and the effect of peer pressure, especially in single sex groups > (i.e. think rugby clubs, army, etc). There are many songs which give insights > into these processes and to mention just three off the top of my head there > would be the Four Seasons' 'Walk Like A Man', Springsteen's 'River'...they > bring you up to do, like your daddy done, and Kenny Rogers' Coward of the > County' - 'sometimes you have to fight when you're a man'. There are many > songs which deal with 'resistance' to representation, 'Goodbye Earl' comes to > mind here although it is not exactly what I was thinking of here. > Any references to popular songs (define this as you will) would help me > immensely and any suggestions of academic or popular writing on this topic > would be welcome too. I have not marked this NJC as there are obviously some > joni songs which are relevant here, not to blame, especially. > Thanks in advance, > mike in barcelona > NP - Nebraska outtakes -Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:08:12 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: last 10 cd purchases NJC hi well - i cant actually remember as far back as the last 10 cds. what i am excited about is the one which i am in the process of buying - the new stryngs cd single - "eremos" !!!!!!!!!!!! ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:41:31 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC Em; It's on Hejira. I'm not sure if it's Song for Sharon or ? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "McMillan Brad" ; "Smurf" ; "jonilist" Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:04 PM Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC > hi Brad and Smurf, where does that line come from? I don't recognize > it. > :) > Em > thx! > > --- McMillan Brad wrote: > > > Smurf; > > That's the line I thought of when I read Em's question! > > Religions and philosophical systems deal with the ultimate > > "aloneness" of > > the individual in different ways. In some systems, for example, the > > feeling > > of separation and aloneness is balanced by a belief in a collective > > spirit > > that makes the individual part of the whole of humanity. This idea is > > really > > just a repudiation of our ultimate fate to"come and go alone". Like > > heaven > > is a repudiation of the finality of death. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Smurf" > > To: "Em" ; "jonilist" > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:30 PM > > Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way > > ot and > > smarmy NJC > > > > > > > Em asks: > > > > > > << Just wondering if most or any of you feel "solo" in this world > > and that > > > other people (even SO's) are characters in your play? or are we all > > in > > > the same damn play? >> > > > > > > I think I have to agree with what all the girls say when they > > discuss me: > > For me, it's all about me. > > > > > > I feel extremely solo, but that's because I am! In fact, we all > > are. As > > someone more talented that I once observed, "We call come and go > > alone." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:44:25 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease > a few years back. Hmmmm... I believe he's alive and well and living in or near Iowa. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:47:03 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC does Mr. Natural truck alone? does he *want* to? way ot and smarmy NJC But it's actually "we all come and go UNKNOWN & not ALONE", right? And that's a better lyric - we don't necessarily come and go alone, but even though we're surrounded by people and even companions & close friends, we're probably closer to unknown in nature. It's like the difference in "lonely" and "alone". Bob, heading to Raleigh to celebrate my sister's 50th... NP: Duo Latte, "Woodstock" > > I feel extremely solo, but that's because I am! In fact, we all > are. As > someone more talented that I once observed, "We call come and go > alone." - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:48:50 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease > a few years back. You are thinking of another Chuck Mitchell: "Mitchell Johnus Geran, better know to music fans as "Chuck Mitchell", died Monday, January 20, 2003 at his home near Baton Rouge at age 61." http://www.nothinbutdablues.com/BluesNews/2003/Page11.html#Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:55:33 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) I googled Chuck Mitchell a while back, got a reference to "Mr. Joni Mitchell" and a bio with a pic from a movie he was in in the 70's and the comment that he had died a few years ago of liver disease. There was also mention of long term alcoholism, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Z To: McMillan Brad Cc: tinkersown@comcast.net ; . Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Are you sure you're not confusing two Chuck Mitchells? See this link: http://www.porkysmovies.com/cast/porky.html Best regards, Gary McMillan Brad wrote: Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease a few years back. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "." Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Dear Joni Friends, When I saw the name "Chuck Mitchell" on the list of registrants for last week's Folk Alliance conference in Montreal, I thought "Could it be?" I'd seen Joni's ex in Atlanta in the 70's and wondered if it could be the same. Well, it was. I went to a showcase he did, and thought I recognised him, but the fact that his second song was The Circle Game was a dead giveaway. :) He is a very interesting performer, weaving poetry and spoken word pieces into the songs, which he often runs together. I was really impressed with how good he was. He's a very affable fellow. We chatted afterwards, and discussed the possibility of him coming out (from Iowa) to play the concert series. Stay tuned. I loved Montreal, BTW. *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@comcast.net "The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:49:26 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Are you sure you're not confusing two Chuck Mitchells? See this link: http://www.porkysmovies.com/cast/porky.html Best regards, Gary McMillan Brad wrote: >Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease a few years >back. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "." >Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:32 PM >Subject: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) > > > > >>Dear Joni Friends, >> >>When I saw the name "Chuck Mitchell" on the list of registrants for >>last week's Folk Alliance conference in Montreal, I thought "Could it be?" >>I'd seen Joni's ex in Atlanta in the 70's and wondered if it could be the >>same. Well, it was. I went to a showcase he did, and thought I recognised >>him, but the fact that his second song was The Circle Game was a dead >>giveaway. :) >> >>He is a very interesting performer, weaving poetry and spoken word >>pieces into the songs, which he often runs together. I was really >>impressed with how good he was. >> >>He's a very affable fellow. We chatted afterwards, and discussed the >>possibility of him coming out (from Iowa) to play the concert series. >>Stay tuned. >> >>I loved Montreal, BTW. >> >>*************************************************** >>Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@comcast.net >>"The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com >>"The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org >>"Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:56:50 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) I just looked at your link. The first thing it says is that he died of cirrhosis of the liver in 1992. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Z To: McMillan Brad Cc: tinkersown@comcast.net ; . Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Are you sure you're not confusing two Chuck Mitchells? See this link: http://www.porkysmovies.com/cast/porky.html Best regards, Gary McMillan Brad wrote: Uh, hate to break it to you, but Chuck died of liver disease a few years back. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "." Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: Chuck Mitchell (Peripheral JC) Dear Joni Friends, When I saw the name "Chuck Mitchell" on the list of registrants for last week's Folk Alliance conference in Montreal, I thought "Could it be?" I'd seen Joni's ex in Atlanta in the 70's and wondered if it could be the same. Well, it was. I went to a showcase he did, and thought I recognised him, but the fact that his second song was The Circle Game was a dead giveaway. :) He is a very interesting performer, weaving poetry and spoken word pieces into the songs, which he often runs together. I was really impressed with how good he was. He's a very affable fellow. We chatted afterwards, and discussed the possibility of him coming out (from Iowa) to play the concert series. Stay tuned. I loved Montreal, BTW. *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@comcast.net "The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Steely Dan (pre-steely actually) NJC Em wrote: I have that recording but have never listened to it as closely as you obvously have (so much music, so little time!). The transcribing error may be due to the fact that the website is from Sweden so there may have been some language barriers. If a Swede heard the word "Packard" would they know that it was a vintage brand of car? And you're right about those early Becker-Fagen tracks - there are a couple of legit releases where you can get a lot of them, but not one box-set type package that has everything. Bob NP: Joan Crowe, "Twisted" - --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:09:42 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni Mitchell Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Greetings, Oddmund! You have a bad habit of quoting Joni? My, what a curious problem, and how funny that you should end up HERE! You are in the right place: the JMOCDSG (Joni Mitchell Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Support Group) (that's for you, Catherine dear!), more popularly known as the JMDL. I am similarly afflicted  I cant seem to have a conversation with friends or family without quoting Joni, and lately it is even spilling over into my work life. Example: one day my department head asked me how many Spanish majors we currently have (I work in a university) . I answered: Fifty-seven, and you know there may be more, as I smiled mischievously and winked. David knows me well and reads me like a book, so he said: Yeah, well? Whats so funny about that? I answered: Thats a line from a Joni Mitchell song. He smiled, humoring me, and joked: Well? Are you going to sing it? I said: Nah, you wouldnt get it. (Poor David. He is a great guy, but he just doesnt get Joni...he wont even try. Im workin on him though, believe me! Someday.....) JMOCD has, to my knowledge, no cure. I imagine that it is treatable by staying off of this list and stopping listening to her music, but that is hard to do when there are so many covers out there. Shes out there more than you think -- I know *** I *** see something of Joni EVERYWHERE just at this moment of the world (not that Im obsessed or anything -- it's just that I live in flip city, shooby doo bop!). If you ever need a quick fix or help with an exact quote, its just a click away at: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/index.cfm (bookmark it now!). Its a warm arrangement. So, welcome new friend from Norway.....I hope you have a wonderful time here! (speaking of having a wonderful time -- Emiliano!!! Where ARE you? I need your confidence baby, and the gift of your extra time.) My ever-lovin' best to you all, (as in: "So here's to you May your skies be blue And your love blessed That's my best to you"), Patti P.S. And your question about love and quoting Joni? Wow. The age-old question remains unanswered: is it better to have loved and lost (with Joni), or never to have loved (with Joni) at all? In my experience, quoting Joni while in love is a very dangerous fuel on the fire kind of thing. Especially when you BOTH do it. It is a powerful additive to hot hot blazes because, as you know, love can already be sooooooooooooo sweeeeeeet on its own (what with those deep kisses and the sun going down and all). But THEN, when you realize it was all probably (?) just pretty lies and it all comes down in smoke and ash, it makes the end MUCH harder to bear because it was so intense. When youve gone and lost the best baby you ever had, the medicine that was love turns to poison and it runs underneath your skin and all through your circuits like a heartbeat and you wind up cracking and your whole life goes dismal. (But dont worry about me  Ill be fine. Ill take a lesson in survival and let the wind carry me back to court and spark and solid love.) Bon weekend, everyone! Pardon my Friday afternoon punch drunk silliness....I'll re-read this Monday and wonder what the #%* was I thinking, to post such inanities! Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:02:10 +0100 (CET) From: Oddmund Kaarevik <1. okaarevik@yahoo.no> Subject: A question about love As I said on the list the other day I have developed this (bad) habit of quoting Joni at all times. Especially when I like someone, when I am in love, I quote her, then often to state the unsucessfulnes of my love-project. So I was wondering does loving Jonis music lead to less luck in love? Anyway I always end of by quoting "Don't give yourself away" for myself. My love-life would surely be much more succesful listening to easy happy-go lucky Britney Spears / Justin music. Then I would just conqueer both the dance-floor and the rest of world as well. Or listening to Madonna. Yeah! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #102 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)