From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #94 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, February 26 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 094 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Im lovin* it [Oddmund Kaarevik ] RE: Sherelle's post NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: mellencamp, green day, & donovan njc ["mike pritchard" ] Starbucks NJC ["David Henderson" ] Nellie McKay NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: Gimme a song [Garret ] Sandra Dee Dies sjc [Jamie Zubairi ] my first time ["David Henderson" ] Re: Joni's "Artist's Coice CD" [Rusty10113@aol.com] The Saffron Gates NJC ["David Henderson" ] cd to a friend ["David Henderson" ] no piano songs ["David Henderson" ] Rufus basher ["David Henderson" ] gimme a song ["David Henderson" ] Re: Rufus basher [Garret ] RE: Rufus basher NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: Im lovin* it [Bob Muller ] RE: no piano songs ["David Henderson" ] Two Grey Rooms ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: no piano songs ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Gimme a song & compilations ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Two Grey Rooms ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Two Grey Rooms [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Two Grey Rooms [Rusty10113@aol.com] RE: melanie and donovan njc ["Kate Bennett" ] H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc [Smurf ] Does anyone have? Joni @ N.O. Jazz Festival May 6, 1995 [Matt Mc ] RE: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc [Bob Muller ] RE: Two Grey Rooms ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Gimme a song ["Scott and Jody" ] RE: no piano songs [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:07:46 +0100 (CET) From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: Im lovin* it I am thrilled to be a part of this list. It's a really good thing to meet other peole who share the same Joni-enthusiasm I have. I relly liked Garreths asignment for us. I told to him to follow his heart, he knows his friend best, but I would go for "Black crow." Dont know why, but it has a certain beat. I also liked Diana Krall's cover of that the last year. Is it just me or do others also feel that Joni in cover, can make you rediscover Joni again and again? Krall's version made me go back to Hejira. And going back to Hejira, I stayed. And stayin' there for some time made buy Shadows and Lights. Which further lead me to Mingus. Then I have missed the whole eighties/nighties. So where should I start there, any suggestions? I know I like turbulent Indigo and propably Night ride home, but what about DED and Wild things run fast... And is Taming the Tiger worth a try??? And after the Paprika Plains discussion, I see that I have to check out Don Juans reckless daughter real soon. The review in Mojo scared me off, "Joni Mitchells reckless and shapeless daughter." But I see now I shouldn't get scared off. I just have to search it out. And see. And then it may be kind of heavy in the start, as one of you mentioned. But you get into it, or maybe it's Jonis music getting into you, creepin' in under my skin and up in my ear. Like the Jungle Line, which I havent listened to for ages , but is's there just somewhere beneath my right ear. That song, it is just so before it's time, you could put that in a disco in 1995, and people wpoukld go "wow!" What-s this magic weird beat/rhytm. So new" Joni, she did it all, our lady of duality, I am ever so grateful!!!! I am one of those who also love Jonis new stuff, her voice now, so dark, full of smoke, as she put it herself she feels that it's just the last ten-fifteen years she has developed her voice in such a way that she could really sing her ealry stuff like "Both sides now" and some of her serious texts.. But I agree that sometimes the orchestra can be too much. It would thrilling to hear Joni in a small dark cafe, maybe with only a piano and double-bass, drinking red-wine. Whenever she doing a concert like that, please tekll me, I would set my on a plain to states at that very moment! All my credits to you peope operating this list! I' ve learned a lot of new things. I love the glossary, and Smurf introduced me to Joni in fiction, yesterday, and I saw that my "horn" against Nick Hornby was misplaced. I am studying to become a librarian, and the JMDL site, is one I would like to show to all my fellow students, wether Joni fans or not. Because it is s really great site! A very good thing that one can search for articles in full text, and I also think the glossary with all the words explainded is great. Finally I found out who Amelia Erhardt was, in my head I thought she was a kind of Georgia O'keefe artist, killing snakes in the dessert, and then she turned out to be an aviator. Well thanks al ot, I love it all. Happy weekend Nice to meet you !! Oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:52:34 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: Sherelle's post NJC That is such a surreal vision, beautiful really. Sometimes the complexities of human nature are so overwhelming, it's almost frightening - even when it's hopeful and reassuring. I have never understood what makes people want to partake in these Civil War reenactments. Isn't it puzzling? Does it perpetuate the negative feelings of the time? Or is it cathartic in some way? David NP Nina Simone, Trouble in Mind >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Vince Lavieri [mailto:revrvl@comcast.net] >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:08 PM >>>To: Sherelle Smith >>>Cc: joni@smoe.org; jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com >>>Subject: Re: Sherelle's post NJC >>> >>> >>>Muskegon: my once and new home: >>>Catch the Wave with a new Muskegon web site >>>http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us >>> >>>On Feb 23, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Sherelle Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Thank yo so much for your response. The words "Heritage not hate" >>>> sound hopeful...like a plea for understanding, but as a Southerner, I >>>> am glad to hear your opinion. If indeed the flag was created as a >>>> direct symbol for the continuation of slavery, I don't see how I can >>>> embrace it in any way. One of my friends was a Civil War buff and just >>>> loved the history.. He flew a Confederate Flag at their campsite by >>>> the lake in Ohio. It should have been obvious to them why Rob and I >>>> always made our excuses not to come spend time with them there. >>> >>>In my old community they had for many years one of those re-enactment >>>things every May. They were actually quite worthwhile, I was >>>fascinated by the whole thing. Never understood why anyone would be a >>>Reb, or for the WW2 re-enacters, a Nazi SS officer, but I wasn't there >>>to challenge them. >>> >>>Was there once walking back when the engagements had ended, through the >>>camps, with a member of the parish who began to collapse with the heat, >>> A confederate soldier instantly whipped out a bottle of water, much >>>needed, and offered a place to sit - in the confederate camp. After >>>Richard recovered a bit we started to walk to the road and Richard was >>>in obvious distress and a Nazi Waffen SS solider pulled up in a jerry >>>jeep and gave Richard a ride. It was such confusing visuals, I still >>>can't unwrap it all. >>> >>>Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:09:03 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: mellencamp, green day, & donovan njc >>For me he [Donovan] has the same sort of instant recall of times and places as Joni does. Perhaps dare I say it, more so as he is English. << No Lucy, you dare not say it. I know you are the Queen of England, but a little sensitivity please to those north of the border and also to us Taffs living, or in my case formerly living, to the west. Actually Donovan Leitch was born on May 10, 1946, Glasgow, Scotland. ;-) mike in barcelona NP -The Island Years by John Cale (born Glamorgan, Wales, 1942) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:12:24 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: new compilation? BOB WROTE: "And looking at Amazon, it looks like Joni's NEXT compilation (when does this madness end?**) "Songs Of A Prarie Girl" is due out April 25." Hello All - I hope I'm not repeating. I'm catching up on about 4 days of digests . . . I haven't heard of this compilation. Does anyone know what's on it? David NP That Nina Simone song where she sings "The sun's gonna shine in my back door someday," which always makes me laugh . . . I'm really a sick bastard . . . ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:17:31 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Starbucks NJC >We finally got a Starbucks here in town, a stones' throw from where I work but I haven't been there. Now Mrs. >SCjoniguy, different story - she has a Starbucks debit card and goes there several times a week. >Bob My partner who does not drink any kind of coffee things it's criminal to pay $5 for a cup of java or as he calls it "colored water." I tell him he's a coffee racist. We don't call our coffee "colored" anymore, we call it Starbucks!!!! David He's a Yankee anyway, what do they know of good coffee, right? ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:25:26 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Nellie McKay NJC Hello Listers and Listettes - I saw this online . . . I think some of you were saying you were fans of Nellie McKay the other day . . . If anyone saw Alan Cumming (who btw is said to be one of Rufus Wainwright's closest friends) in Cabaret, you'll know this is going to be a 'not to be missed' production. Mack Attack Mack the Knife is back, and Alan Cumming is going to be doing the cutting. Mr. Cumming, the Scottish actor who made his name in the United States in the Roundabout Theater Company's revival of "Cabaret," is returning to the scene of the crime as the devilish Macheath in a new revival of Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill's "Threepenny Opera," aiming for an April 2006 opening on Broadway. The production will be directed by Scott Elliott, currently bathing in the success of his revival of "Hurlyburly," and will have two starry female leads: Edie Falco, who will play Jenny Diver, a fallen woman, and Nellie McKay, the precocious pop star, as the impressionable Polly Peachum. Like "Cabaret," "Threepenny," last revived on Broadway in 1989 with Sting as Macheath, will play Studio 54. JESSE McKINLEY David NP Nina Simone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:19:45 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Gimme a song Well, here's my update on choosing one track for my friend. Amelia is a lot more popular with you guys than i thought. I definitely agree that Sire of Sorrow is doom-laden and it is actually very accesible. River and RNh are popular too. As for it being JOni's shrill voice that can put people off, i agree. I have heard this before. But at the same time that untrained, unrestricted freedom she releases in her "helium days" albums is something that attracts some people. I would burn a whole disc of Joni but we are exchanging compilations (and let me tell you, his was very good!). As for two grey rooms, i have never really liked that song very much (yet that is, i assume that one day i will suddenly get it. Hehe, it gives me something for a rainy day after joni has released her twenty fifth retrospective comilation "Joni Mitchell: Songs of Duality for Canada" or something like that). I also found that the more i think about this the more difficult it becomes. i have shortlisted the following: Ameila River Sire of Sorrow Rainy Night House Blue Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire. I may include two Joni songs from this list. My reasoning being that he already loves Patti Smith so i need not include any of her work on it, which i usualy would do. What's the point making the rules if you can't break them? As i said yesterday, it has been a lot of fun to dig out all the Joni albums and spend some time with them. Hell, i even enjoyed listening to the tenth world. who would have thought? GARRET NP- Beck, NObody's Fault But My Own - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:20:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Sandra Dee Dies sjc The actress Sandra Dee dies at a California hospital. http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/20/dee.obit/ The romance of Sandra Dee and Bobby Darin was one that most most publicised in the press and inspired the young Roberta Joan to write the poem 'The Fishbowl' which is about stardom and fame. Much Joni Jamie Zoob Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:21:57 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: my first time I love hearing people's stories about how they first fell in love with Joni. It's like one moment in history interpreted by 100 different voices. I hope Oddmund has a brilliant day too. David NP Nina Simone, Black is the color of my true love's hair >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:41:28 +0100 (CET) >From: Oddmund Kaarevik >Subject: on Joni's unpopularity >I have to tell you a story. >The story on how I discovered Joni. >Well my first Joni experience was with the Chifietans "Tears of a stone," Joni has the best version of >>Magdelen Laundries I have heard 'till day. I was visiting my brother in S.F. Feeling depresses and closeted, >Jonis voice set me free >Back in Norway, two things happende simultanously. I borrowed "Blue" from my friend, and started to read Nick >Hornby's "About a boy." Hornby has cruel passages where he hangs out Joni, and especially us, the fans'. Well >instead of getting embaressed, it inspired me. I wanted to find out more about Joni. And about this phrase >Hornby regardes as especially ridicolous: "Well somethings lost, and somethings gained in living everyday,"> from Both sides now. So I bought Joni Mitchells "Hits." My frst Joni cd. >After that I always wanted to send Nick Hornby a thank you card. "Thanks for givning me Joni." It's so ironic, >that his anti-joni propaganda, made me a whole-hearted Joni Mitchell fan. >Joni lives within me. I think I quote her almost every day. Sometimes I fell that being a fan of Joni, comes >close to a kind of madness. But what a heck, it's worth it. >Have a brilliant day! >Love >Oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:37:00 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's "Artist's Coice CD" Glad you posted on this, Ive been spinning this disc all week in my car (as a carless New Yorker, the prospect of having a rented convertible with a great stereo to zip around in is a bit of a thrill), and the tracks sticking with me are Steely Dan, Piaf, the New Radicals (the more I listen, the more I get what Joni loves about this song, it's very inspiring!) and of course At Last and In My Solitude, but I loved those long before this CD. However, that old rock stuff (Chuck Berry and Louis Jordan) annoys me, what can I say? But I gotta say, there's nothing better than blasting Free Man in Paris while winding through Tatum Blvd here in Scottsdale, AZ, with nothing in my sight line but blue sky and mountains... heaven! hope everyone is doing well and has a great weekend! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:51:07 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: The Saffron Gates NJC >Lucky you vince! I love Donovan... saffron is kind of orange (like cristo's >gates) so not far colorwise from mellow yellow... Yes, saffron like Cristo's Gates . . . strangely ugly gates, like tent flaps marking the entrance to nothingness, imho. Still, all art is subjective. It's an historical time. For a hundred years, people will refer to and post photos of The Gates. Cristo and his wife paid/raised the entire $20 million to create this work of art (not to mention the decades they worked on this project), and I respect them for that. The world could certainly use more people with that kind of dedication to art. Still, I have found this project upsetting and angering ever since I first heard of it. It seems like there are so many more important things in the world to spend $20 million on . . . the plight of the homeless or the uneducated or the hungry, a cure for AIDS or cancer or bigotry or politics. You could buy monstrous tracts of beautiful land to preserve for prosperity. You could fund the genesis of a national health care plan. You could buy your mother a mansion with a pool and a built-in ironing board. You could actually, possibly, make the world a better place and save a few lives with $20 million. But then the world would be so bleak and scary without art. I don't know what to do with these intense strong feelings on this subject. I don't know why I fear it says something ugly about modern man when it probably just says that I would spend the $20 million differently. David NP Nina Simone, Let It Be Me (Who is the other voice? LOVE this recording!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:08:15 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: cd to a friend >I have been struggling to come up with a compilation cd to send to a friend. >we all know that joni specialises in those "portraits of disapppintment" not >sure if she is doom-laden. so what one song would you give to a music fan that >doesn't know the music of joni mitchell? eh? >GARRET I think the Miles of Aisles version of Rainy Night House is brilliant if he likes it dark and moody. Also, Harry's House, THOSL, Song for Sharon, the Miles of Aisles version of Richard, and my favorite, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. David NP I don't want to be anything but me, Gavin DeGraw ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:20:44 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: no piano songs >From: "McMillan Brad" >Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity >You talkin' Joni piano songs? I love River, For Free and Richard. What's >wrong with those? >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" >To: "JMDL" >Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:31 AM >Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity > NO MORE PIANO SONGS! THANK GOD WE'VE BEEN DELIVERED FROM THOSE! Yeah, Lama, what's up with that? You don't like any of Joni's piano songs? I think some are tops: Court & Spark, Richard, Chinese Cafe and Two Grey Rooms. David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:24:33 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Rufus basher > np - Rufus Wainwright, Cigarettes and chocolate milk (even the rufus bashers > have to like this one. don't they?) >You tell 'em, Garret. ONLY Rufus could have written that one. >Jerry, a Rufus fan from the git go. Yes indeed, God knows only Rufus could have written that one. hehe David, Rufus basher from the git go ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:32:00 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: gimme a song "Furry...oops, shouldn't say that, it'll just muddy the waters" That's very funny, Bob! LOL David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:08:19 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Rufus basher Quoting David Henderson : > > np - Rufus Wainwright, Cigarettes and chocolate milk (even the rufus > bashers > > have to like this one. don't they?) > > >You tell 'em, Garret. ONLY Rufus could have written that one. > >Jerry, a Rufus fan from the git go. > > Yes indeed, God knows only Rufus could have written that one. hehe > > David, Rufus basher from the git go > You make that sound so dirty David;-) GARRET NP- Crash Test Dummies, mmmm mmmm mmmm - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:29:33 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: Rufus basher NJC Never! Did you know the Crash Test Dummies just did a musical here, an actual original musical theatre piece. It was interesting, kind of long. It's about to play in San Francisco I hear. David NP Emimen, Toy Soldiers >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Garret [mailto:garret@hatstand.org] >>>Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 10:08 AM >>>To: David Henderson >>>Cc: Joni Mitchell List >>>Subject: Re: Rufus basher >>> >>> >>>Quoting David Henderson : >>> >>>> > np - Rufus Wainwright, Cigarettes and chocolate milk (even the rufus >>>> bashers >>>> > have to like this one. don't they?) >>>> >>>> >You tell 'em, Garret. ONLY Rufus could have written that one. >>>> >Jerry, a Rufus fan from the git go. >>>> >>>> Yes indeed, God knows only Rufus could have written that one. hehe >>>> >>>> David, Rufus basher from the git go >>>> >>>You make that sound so dirty David;-) >>>GARRET >>> >>>NP- Crash Test Dummies, mmmm mmmm mmmm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:38:34 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Im lovin* it Oddmund Kaarevik wrote: < I also liked Diana Krall's cover of that the last year. Is it just me or do others also feel that Joni in cover, can make you rediscover Joni again and again?> Absolutely, Oddmund...I've been collecting and compiling Joni covers for a number of years now...all detailed at http://www.jmdl.com/undercover/ Besides rediscovering Joni's songs and seeing how they've been imagined and interpreted in a myriad of ways (and languages), it's enabled me to become exposed to lots of other artists I wouldn't have picked up on, like Krall, like Karrin Allyson, like Eva Cassidy, and many more. Your country of Norway has given us a couple of nice additions as well - most notably the fine big jazz band Kjellerbandet, who covered "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" and has just released a version of "A Chair in the Sky" on their new disc "Mingus Schmingus" http://www.stud.ntnu.no/groups/kb/ Bob NP: Joni, "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" (CKUA special - anybody else listening online?) Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:49:50 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: no piano songs Oops! For some reason, I didn't realize it was part of that thread. David >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] >>>Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:47 AM >>>To: David Henderson; Joni Mitchell List >>>Subject: Re: no piano songs >>> >>> >>>David Henderson wrote: >>>>> From: "McMillan Brad" >>>>> Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity >>>> >>>>> You talkin' Joni piano songs? I love River, For Free and Richard. >>>>> What's wrong with those? >>>>> - ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" >>>>> To: "JMDL" >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:31 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity >>>>> NO MORE PIANO SONGS! THANK GOD WE'VE BEEN DELIVERED FROM THOSE! >>>> >>>> Yeah, Lama, what's up with that? You don't like any of Joni's piano >>>> songs? I think some are tops: Court & Spark, Richard, Chinese Cafe >>>> and Two Grey Rooms. >>>> >>>> David >>> >>>I think Lama needed a sarcasm emoticon for this post. The >>>original idea, I believe, was to use >>>reverse psychology on Joni in the hope that she would produce >>>new material. Not just new material, >>>but material done in particular ways that people here would like >>>to see her re-visit. >>> >>>I say don't hold your breath, people. I don't think Ms. Joan >>>can be manipulated so easily. >>> >>>Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:09:52 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Two Grey Rooms Why does everybody like this song? It is so overblown & way too "pop" for my tastes. I don't hate it, but it doesn't do too much for me. When I play NRH-I like to stop after "The Only Joy in Town" and skip both "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and "Two Grey Rooms." I'd be interested in someone telling me how I might be listening wrong-or how I might listen right in order to appreciate the last number on this disc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:46:47 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: no piano songs David Henderson wrote: >> From: "McMillan Brad" >> Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity > >> You talkin' Joni piano songs? I love River, For Free and Richard. >> What's wrong with those? >> - ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" >> To: "JMDL" >> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:31 AM >> Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity >> NO MORE PIANO SONGS! THANK GOD WE'VE BEEN DELIVERED FROM THOSE! > > Yeah, Lama, what's up with that? You don't like any of Joni's piano > songs? I think some are tops: Court & Spark, Richard, Chinese Cafe > and Two Grey Rooms. > > David I think Lama needed a sarcasm emoticon for this post. The original idea, I believe, was to use reverse psychology on Joni in the hope that she would produce new material. Not just new material, but material done in particular ways that people here would like to see her re-visit. I say don't hold your breath, people. I don't think Ms. Joan can be manipulated so easily. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:49:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Gimme a song & compilations Garret wrote: > Well, here's my update on choosing one track for my friend. ... I also found that the more i think about this How in the world can you choose one song to represent Joni Mitchell? Although there are themes that pretty much run throughout her entire body of work, how do you pin her down to one sound or musical style? Each album is different. As those nuns sang about Maria in 'The Sound of Music', 'how do catch a cloud and pin it down'? Even if you examine it from both sides or all of the many sides or angles there are to Joni's music? Since Joni seems to be done with producing any new music, I'm thinking that she is now faced with the same problem that Garret is wrestling with. Maybe the compilations we are seeing are her attempts to sum herself up, leave something for posterity that says 'this is what Joni Mitchell was all about'. Sooner or later, somebody is going get hold of her catelogue and start cranking out retrospectives that they think will appeal to the broadest possible audience. She still has control of her work so why not get the jump on them and leave behind the work that she values most? But then she's faced with the problem of choosing a group of songs that are representative of a 20 plus album career that covered a lot of musical ground and a commercially produced cd will only hold so many. How do you choose even 14 or 15 songs that chart the entire musical journey she has taken us on for almost 40 years? Her 'Travelogue' of that journey didn't even include songs from all of the albums she recorded and that was 2 cds worth of music. 'Hits' certainly isn't representative even when you couple it with 'Misses'. I don't think any of the recent collections have been chosen randomly or thrown together with no thought for content or sequencing. I'm sure Joni sees the process as akin to making a collage since she thinks so much in terms of visual art. Inevitably something gets pruned out because it throws off the composition of the whole. But maybe that something was important to her and gets reserved for the next collage. Maybe the whole series of compilations represents a new artistic exercise for her to apply her creative energies to. Just a few thoughts on a foggy Saturday morning in the dry northwest. (Hello LA! You can send the rain back now!) Mark E. in Seattle Joni Mitchell apologist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:14:44 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Richard Flynn wrote: > When I play NRH-I like to stop after "The Only Joy in Town" and skip > both "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and "Two Grey Rooms." > > > > I'd be interested in someone telling me how I might be listening > wrong-or how I might listen right in order to appreciate the last > number on this disc. It's a number of things. It's the piano, it's the voice, it's the idea behind the song of someone going off on their own without telling anyone and finding a place to observe an old love unobserved from a distance. A lot of my reaction to 'Two Grey Rooms' is purely visceral. Just the sound of it hits me in the gut. I don't know, for me there's something unvarnished and uncalculated about it, like she didn't write it to push any envelopes or make any grand statements. It started life as a piano piece and some scatting that it took a few years for her to put lyrics to. It sounds like the piano part of it seemed to write itself and the melody came from her vocal improvisations over that piano. To me this song is akin to her work on 'Blue'. It's hit-you-in-the gut music. When she sings 'Heaven knows I loved you 30 years ago' I get a feeling that somewhere in the back or her mind she's thinking about her child. Maybe I'm just a sentimental, romantic old Joni Mitchell fanatic but for me there is something very deeply felt in the vocal delivery of this song and I doubt that she ever ran off and rented a couple or rooms to watch an old lover walk by. She was using something from her own experience as all performing artists do when they use their art to act a part or paint a portrait in a song. And as to 'Ray's Dad's Cadillac', I have always loved that song. It is playful and has very clever lyrics. Having grown up in a small town, I know that pretty much the only amusement for teens or young adults in those towns is to drive around with either your boy or girlfriend or just a group of friends listening to the radio or parking and making out in some secluded place (like out by those blue lights at the airport). Ok, so there's a nostalgia factor here for me. But I do like this song and I don't know why it gets slagged so much on the JMDL. Mark E. in Seattle Staunch Defender of the Joni Faith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:23:51 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms In a message dated 2/26/2005 12:26:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > Why does everybody like this song? It is so overblown &way too "pop" for my > tastes. I don't hate it, but it doesn't do too much for me. > > I personally love Two Grey Rooms for a few reasons. I like the story behind the song, and there was one time long ago I felt like the character behind the song.........staring out the window just to look for this person. I also like when Joni plays the piano. I love the harmony when Joni sings "with a vieeeeewww". I get chills down my spine. I don't find the song "pop" at all. Sure, the lyrics aren't as deep as a lot of her songs, yet I don't find it to be a "pop" song. It's a pleasantly sad song to me (if that makes any sense), and the way Joni starts NRH with such a fun song "NRH", and ends the album with "Two Grey Rooms" is brilliant. NRH is in my top 3 Joni albums. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:30:32 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms In a message dated 2/26/05 11:19:34 AM, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > . Just the sound of it > hits me in the gut. > totally agree, especially the first "mmmmmmm, yeah...." before joni sings..tomorrow in Sunday.. love it! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:21:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: melanie and donovan njc Well I was a girl with long hair & a guitar... I think it was more a visual than a musical similarity... someone once said I looked like cher too but I think that was a stretch! >Kate you used to be misatken for Melanie???< Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc A little birdie told me that Jody the Birthday Reminder told the Birthday Fairy and the Birthday Gnome about it being Kate Bennett's BD today and that the BF and the BG immediately scuttled off to Kate's back yard to wish her a happy day. Pictures here: http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/rnr/61448625.html Happy birthday, Kate. XO, - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Mc Subject: Does anyone have? Joni @ N.O. Jazz Festival May 6, 1995 Hello friends, does anyone have this show? JONI MITCHELL: NEW ORLEANS JAZZ AND HERITAGE FESTIVAL MAY 6, 1995 I've read that Joni got a new guitar toy before this show to help with all her alternate tunings. I have a decent amount of (mostly Neil Young) stuff to trade if anyone has this show to trade, please let me know. I'd also be interested in any Joni VCD's, if they are out there. Also, there is a video of her on VH-1 Classic playing Big Yellow Taxi with an electric. Does anyone know if that clip is from the "Painting with Words and Music" DVD? Neil Young is my favorite, but I'm "branching out" and discovering other great artists. Anyone who digs Joni's "Hejira" should get Neil Young's "On the Beach." They are nothing alike except that you could listen 1,000 times and dig deeper each time. Thanks, Matt Mc in Sunny Mississippi ===== ================================================== "And I'll stand before you, and I'll bring a smile to your eyes." Neil Young "Motion Pictures" ================================================== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:12:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Does anyone have? Joni @ N.O. Jazz Festival May 6, 1995 Matt Mc wrote: Howdy Matt - I've got it, it's a great show and actually quite a landmark show in Joni history as she was ready to call it quits when she got the combination of the Parker Fly electric and the VG8 that remembers all her tunings. She played this gig with the notion that if it worked for her she'd continue on. I particularly like the "Sex Kills" in her set; she uses the fuzztone setting on the VG8 and gives it a real snarling angry sound. The full setlist: 1. Sex Kills 2. Moon At The Window 3. Magdalene Laundries 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Night Ride Home 6. Crazy Cries of Love 7. Yvette in English 8. Just Like This Train 9. Three Great Stimulants 10. Amelia 11. Hejira 12. Happiness is the Best Facelift 13. Song For Sharon Bob NP: Randy Newman, "Sail Away" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:36:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc Thanks smurf! how did you sneak into my yard like that? how lovely to have both the b'day fairy & gnome so close! >A little birdie told me that Jody the Birthday Reminder told the Birthday Fairy and the Birthday Gnome about it being Kate Bennett's BD today and that the BF and the BG immediately scuttled off to Kate's back yard to wish her a happy day. Pictures here: http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/rnr/61448625.html Happy birthday, Kate. XO, - --Smurf< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:52:12 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Words to live by (njc) >A lecturer, when explaining stress management to an audience, raised a glass of water and asked, "how heavy is this glass of water?" Answers called out ranged from 20g to 500g. The lecturer replied, "The absolute weight doesn't matter. It depends on how long you try to hold it." "If I hold it for a minute, that's not a problem. If I hold it for an hour, I'll have an ache in my right arm. If I hold it for a day, you'll have to call an ambulance. "In each case, it's the same weight, but the longer I hold it, the heavier it becomes." He continued, "And that's the way it is with stress management. If we carry our burdens all the time, sooner or later, as the burden becomes increasingly heavy, we won't be able to carry on." "As with the glass of water, you have to put it down for a while and rest before holding it again. When we're refreshed, we can carry on with the burden." "So, before you return home tonight, put the burden of work down. Don't carry it home. You can pick it up tomorrow. Whatever burdens you're carrying now, let them down for a moment if you can." "Relax; pick them up later after you've rested. Life is short. Enjoy it! And then he shared some ways of dealing with the burdens of life: 1. Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue. 2. Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them. 3. Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it. 4. Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be recalled by their maker. 5. If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague. 6. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it. 7. Never buy a car you can't push. 8. Never put both feet in your mouth at the same time, because then you won't have a leg to stand on. 9. Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. 10. Since it's the early worm that gets eaten by the bird, sleep late. 11. The second mouse gets the cheese. 12. When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane. 13. Birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live. 14. You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person. 15. Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once. 16. We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull. Some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they all have to live in the same box. < thank you for indulging me, those who read this far. have a good weekend everyone. brian in south jersey, a formerly extremely stressed-out individual ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: RE: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc Kate, you're in good company as it's also Fats Domino's & Johnny Cash's birthday. Hope your day is a good one! Bob NP: ZZ Top, "Certified Blues" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:48:36 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Does anyone have? Joni @ N.O. Jazz Festival May 6, 1995 I've got it, too. Yes--a very nice show. Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muller Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:13 PM To: Matt Mc Cc: JMDL Subject: Re: Does anyone have? Joni @ N.O. Jazz Festival May 6, 1995 Matt Mc wrote: Howdy Matt - I've got it, it's a great show and actually quite a landmark show in Joni history as she was ready to call it quits when she got the combination of the Parker Fly electric and the VG8 that remembers all her tunings. She played this gig with the notion that if it worked for her she'd continue on. I particularly like the "Sex Kills" in her set; she uses the fuzztone setting on the VG8 and gives it a real snarling angry sound. The full setlist: 1. Sex Kills 2. Moon At The Window 3. Magdalene Laundries 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Night Ride Home 6. Crazy Cries of Love 7. Yvette in English 8. Just Like This Train 9. Three Great Stimulants 10. Amelia 11. Hejira 12. Happiness is the Best Facelift 13. Song For Sharon Bob NP: Randy Newman, "Sail Away" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:49:54 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc Happy Birthday, Kate! Especially since your're the only jonilista I've actually met face to face. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muller Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:56 PM To: Kate Bennett; 'Smurf'; 'Lucy Hone'; 'Joni List' Subject: RE: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc Kate, you're in good company as it's also Fats Domino's & Johnny Cash's birthday. Hope your day is a good one! Bob NP: ZZ Top, "Certified Blues" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:25:55 -0500 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Fw: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc The Happiest of Birthday's to you Kate! Deputy BF would have been in your backyard as well but knowing Jimmy, either the ship sank or the train turned around. jody NP - WolfSong - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smurf" To: "Kate Bennett" ; "'Lucy Hone'" ; "'Joni List'" Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 4:32 PM Subject: H a P p Y K a T e D a Y !!! -- njc >A little birdie told me that Jody the Birthday > Reminder told the Birthday Fairy and the Birthday > Gnome about it being Kate Bennett's BD today and that > the BF and the BG immediately scuttled off to Kate's > back yard to wish her a happy day. > > Pictures here: > > http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/rnr/61448625.html > > > Happy birthday, Kate. > > XO, > > --Smurf > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:49:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Richard Flynn wrote: > I'd be interested in someone telling me how I might be listening > wrong-or how I might listen right in order to appreciate the last > number on this disc. We went to Starbucks today! Here's what Chaka Khan has to say about 'Two Grey Rooms': "This song is so cerebral. It's an enigma. She's speaking of the left and right brain and the 'window' she speaks of are the eyes. Just brilliant!" Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:16:03 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Two Grey Rooms Yeah I read that & when I listened to the Starbuck's CD, that's what prompted my question. I am grateful for your insight and advocacy of the song--it will make me listen more & ponder. Thanks, Richard - -----Original Message----- From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:49 PM To: Richard Flynn; Joni List Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Richard Flynn wrote: > I'd be interested in someone telling me how I might be listening > wrong-or how I might listen right in order to appreciate the last > number on this disc. We went to Starbucks today! Here's what Chaka Khan has to say about 'Two Grey Rooms': "This song is so cerebral. It's an enigma. She's speaking of the left and right brain and the 'window' she speaks of are the eyes. Just brilliant!" Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:52:50 -0500 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Re: Gimme a song Hi Garrett! I would choose California or( ), I'm thinking... I was fortunate to have one of the greatest music teachers when I was in 7th grade -circa 1971. For our spring concert, I auditioned and sang "For Free" and "Morning Morgan Town". Mrs. Krumm (Our music teacher) said I sounded too much like Tom Waits to sing Joni! Imagine that!!! Not only was I smoking like Joni and Tom, but musically, these two artists, along with Dylan (oops, sorry to some folks, oh well) became the Trinity in my Gumbo. Paz, you know what I'm talkin' about. Those three artists are my onion, celery and peppers. Anyway, I was so taken by Joni's music that I asked my teacher if she had anything else. Needless to say, The Dawntreader was my next favorite song and STAS was my next journey. As a sidenote: Mrs. Krumm was so cool. She ALSO introduced us to CSNY, The Who and "west side story" and the list goes on. She also turned us on to the jazz stylings of Duke Ellington and then Dave Brubeck and Cannonball Adderly. For a 7th grader, I felt pretty fortunate. The other music class next door was listening strictly to marching band music with the exception of a few musicals and operas, which was good. P.S - Smurf wrote: Jody introduced me to that song and to "Don Juan" last year at about this time, shortly before we pulled off the road with her husband's credit card and into a Howard Johnson Motel in Jersey, but I digress ... And I thought the whole time we were using Jim Bunny's credit card! Have a great weekend everybody, jody Original Message ----- From: "Smurf" To: ; Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Gimme a song > Kate wrote: > >> i'd choose rainy night house or blue > > > Hey, Garret. I'd choose a later-voiced Joni song: > "Silky Veils of Ardor," or as we call it in Boston, > "Silky Veils of Ahdah." I think it's Joni's best "folk > song" ever. Jody introduced me to that song and to > "Don Juan" last year at about this time, shortly > before we pulled off the road with her husband's > credit card and into a Howard Johnson Motel in Jersey, > but I digress ... > > Many people who say they don't like Joni cite her > "shrill" voice which, in my opinion, makes lots of > people dislike her earlier stuff. > > XO, > > --Smurf > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:02:47 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: RE: no piano songs Blame Klein. ;-) This is from an interview Joan did with Canadian magazine, Impact, back in September '94: Impact: When you write a song, do you always know whether you're going to use piano or guitar? Joni: I haven't played the piano much in a few years. I think it's because we had this studio in the house and the piano is near the studio, so if Larry was producing someone and I played it, I would cause interference. So I would go to the other end of the house and pick up a guitar. Usually I would pick it up in the same way you pet a cat- it's soothing and pleasaurable- and sometimes I would put it in a tuning. There's an element of discovery, so it's fun, it's exciting... Impact: On an album like Blue, it goes from guitar song to piano song... Joni: Well, that was written in Laurel Canyon, and I had a little house with a piano and I was just really discovering it. It was exciting; there just seemed to be so much to discover, melodically. Also I was listening to Laura Nyro and I found her music very interesting. I think that did influence me to play the piano more- not that I played anything like her. For the Roses also has a lot of piano on it. I wrote that in a cabin in B.C. while I was building my house, and I had a piano, and it just seemed my interests went into that instrument at the time, and continued into Court and Spark. And then with The Hissing of Summer Lawns I met my first synthesizer, the Farfisa, and it had some strange little preset sounds on it. Prior to that, with those instruments you had to be a jet pilot: ther were all these dials and levers. Sot that kind of kicked me off in a different direction. And even on guitar-oriented albums, the keyboards and the background coloration I'm playing, I'm using it as orchestration, so I'm still a keyboard person, I've never lost that. Dog Eat Dog was a synthetic keyboard album, but I'm playing most of it. People think somebody has smeared all of this over me, but it is me, playing with a wider palette. You hear this music all around you, and you have to participate. Some will view it as desparate to belong, which is ridiculous. I mean, if you're a living, breathing musician, you're bound to be influenced by the sounds of your time. I try to remain somewhat classical, and in my true heart I like the pure more sesonant sounds. But I don't want to limit myself, like Mingus or Pete Seeger. You want to keep an open mind to contemporary experiments. Like Miles, or Picasso - those people are heroes of mine, I think of them as restless explorers, they remained contemporary and cutting edge. - -Interview continues to discuss Mingus- - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #94 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)