From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #88 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 23 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 088 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The list - NJC [colin ] Re: Starbucks [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Joni's unpoularity [colin ] Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] lay down your arms (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Re: Joni's unpoularity [tian zhang ] Re: NJC - Lori's Pic- Now Leather wear ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC ["Steven Polif] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #87 [JSerkes@aol.com] Re: Joni's unpoularity [Em ] Re: Musical date (NJC) ["Ruth Davis" ] Re: Starbucks NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Have you guys seen this? !!! ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: Have you guys seen this? !!! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: our own survivor, joni's on island ["McMillan Brad" ] Would you touch Bob Dylan with a ten foot pole? ["c Karma" ] Re: NJC - Lori's Pic- Now Leather wear ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Starbucks NJC ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: Sherelle's post NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Starbucks NJC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Sherelle's post NJC [Bob Muller ] NJC Re: Have you guys seen this? !!! [Bob Muller ] Re: Sherelle's post NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Joni's unpopularity [Bob Muller ] Doug Meek alert!! Set your radio dials y'all [Bob Muller ] Joni Tribute in Grass Valley California [Brian Gross ] Full Snow Moon, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Starbucks [Doug ] Re: Joni's unpopularity [Bob Muller ] NJC Re: Doug Meek alert!! Set your radio dials y'all [Bob Muller Subject: Re: The list - NJC David Henderson wrote: >Thank you for your note Lori and for all of the notes from various others >today. I do apologize for overreacting, and I most of all apologize for >being so harsh with you, Colin. > Thank you. It's forgotten. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:46:57 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Starbucks Hey Gus. I am admitting something here for the first time; I agree with you about Starbucks. They have a similar reputation here in Australia. I tried to hate them because they started popping up like cancers across the country but, they actually do sell good coffee in a pleasant atmosphere. I have just recently moved from a suburb of Sydney called, Balmain. Balmain has the reputation of being cafi city. It is famous for the best cafis in Sydney and a slightly snobbish population. When word spread that aaagh! an American coffee chain was opening, petitions flew like confetti to try to stop them just like they had managed to do with McDonalds. There was so much fuss that the local council issued a statement in the local newspaper. They said in the statement that they understand that many of the residents of Balmain were unhappy that Starbucks were about to open but, they were powerless to stop them as they were not doing anything illegal. Starbucks opened in the middle of the cafi strip without fanfare and have quietly been doing a roaring trade ever since. They are open later than any other cafi there, they have more comfortable seating than any other so called stylish cafi in the area and their coffee ain't half bad. The only societal problem with chains like Starbucks, McDonalds and Dominoes is if they get so big that they resemble a monopoly and we lose choice. Mark in Sydney NP Joni Mitchell/James Taylor - In Perfect Harmony. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:03:31 +0000 From: colin Subject: Joni's unpoularity Joni's lack of sales and the lack of recognition could perhaps have been foreseen by anyone who understands the way the human psyche works. Joni is different. Different. And difference breeds contempt. She does not follow the crowd. That breeds contempt. She has opinions and is not afraid to voice them. Thus receiving more contempt. Even amongst those who on the surface love her for just her difference, there was contempt when she didn't follow form and put out Mingus. Again when she put out DED. How dare she? Who does she think she is? So the accusations start flying - - she was off the wall, couldn't be trusted, must have a screw loose, was too in love, gave her power away to some producer, is anti this or anti that, and generally gets derided. Not becasue there is any truth in the accusations but by her difference, by her holding up a mirror, she makes people feel uncomfortable. And people heap accusations upon her of the very flaws they themselves are displaying in bucket loads. People have always done this to people who threaten their ideas. Communties do it all the time and if they can't stomp on the person or group they despise in any ethtical way, they lie. Thus Jews get accused of sacrificing babies, gay men get accused of being peodophiles and being highly promiscuous, gay women get accused of being men haters as do feminists,people of colour get accsued of not being fully human, devil worshippers. Absolutley anyone who does not toe the line has derision and lies heaped upon them. And whilst the ringleaders do this, others sit on the sidelines and let it happen because they are afraid they will be targeted too. Joni sticks her neck out, she stands up for what she believes is right and she gets trounced. That doesn't make her special, or perfect, or even better than. It just means she practises what she preaches as far as humanly possible and very few like that. She holds up a mirror to us and we kick out at it. This is not say to she is faultless, of course not, but in order for to hold up a mirror to us, she must look in her own mirror too, and that she does and isn't afraid to, and accepts what she sees and changes what she sess needs changing. Maybe we have heard the last from her, maybe not. Whatever our view of her work, she has lived an authentic life, to the best of her ability, and whilst I doubt she sees that about herself,the pay off will come. Having never clearly understood why I admire her so much and love her work, the above spells it out to me. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:35:39 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC Speaking of Dylan, has anybody heard of that wiz 13 year old from down under? I miss his comments Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:09:18 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: lay down your arms (njc) Hi David, It sounds like maybe you just have to get acclimated (sp?) to the list??? Anyway, I'm glad to see the flames being doused :-) Looking forward to more posts - especially Joni content! - from you... lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:45:16 +0000 (GMT) From: tian zhang Subject: Re: Joni's unpoularity Wow that was a fantastic post. What I love about Joni is the fact that although she is underappreciated by many, that there are fans like us that will always stick by her regardless of the people around who will critisise her. I admit the first time I heard Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I was amazed and shocked, but I respected her for what she did, and it is in my opinion a brilliant work. It's a shame that there are people who are too narrow-minded to appreciate her artistry. colin wrote: Joni's lack of sales and the lack of recognition could perhaps have been foreseen by anyone who understands the way the human psyche works. Joni is different. Different. And difference breeds contempt. She does not follow the crowd. That breeds contempt. She has opinions and is not afraid to voice them. Thus receiving more contempt. Even amongst those who on the surface love her for just her difference, there was contempt when she didn't follow form and put out Mingus. Again when she put out DED. How dare she? Who does she think she is? So the accusations start flying - - she was off the wall, couldn't be trusted, must have a screw loose, was too in love, gave her power away to some producer, is anti this or anti that, and generally gets derided. Not becasue there is any truth in the accusations but by her difference, by her holding up a mirror, she makes people feel uncomfortable. And people heap accusations upon her of the very flaws they themselves are displaying in bucket loads. People have always done this to people who threaten their ideas. Communties do it all the time and if they can't stomp on the person or group they despise in any ethtical way, they lie. Thus Jews get accused of sacrificing babies, gay men get accused of being peodophiles and being highly promiscuous, gay women get accused of being men haters as do feminists,people of colour get accsued of not being fully human, devil worshippers. Absolutley anyone who does not toe the line has derision and lies heaped upon them. And whilst the ringleaders do this, others sit on the sidelines and let it happen because they are afraid they will be targeted too. Joni sticks her neck out, she stands up for what she believes is right and she gets trounced. That doesn't make her special, or perfect, or even better than. It just means she practises what she preaches as far as humanly possible and very few like that. She holds up a mirror to us and we kick out at it. This is not say to she is faultless, of course not, but in order for to hold up a mirror to us, she must look in her own mirror too, and that she does and isn't afraid to, and accepts what she sees and changes what she sess needs changing. Maybe we have heard the last from her, maybe not. Whatever our view of her work, she has lived an authentic life, to the best of her ability, and whilst I doubt she sees that about herself,the pay off will come. Having never clearly understood why I admire her so much and love her work, the above spells it out to me. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:18:33 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: NJC - Lori's Pic- Now Leather wear Donna, honey... That's a leather jock strap, dearie. And I DO have one. Very nice. Laces up the middle... Yes, I do hard-core leather sometimes... And if Lori says she doesn't wear a leather bra, I'd say she was lying... ;-P Steve >>> "Donna Binkley" 2/22/2005 3:22:40 PM >>> Lori *I wear do a leather bra ... NOT!! That's ok, I'm sure Steve P. will wear one for the both of us if we ask real nice! JK Steve sweetie! love yall, db ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:26:14 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Joni's unpoularity tian zhang wrote: > >What I love about Joni is the fact that although she is underappreciated by many, that there are fans like us that will always stick by her regardless of the people around who will critisise her. I admit the first time I heard Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I was amazed and shocked, but I respected her for what she did, and it is in my opinion a brilliant work. It's a shame that there are people who are too narrow-minded to appreciate her artistry. > > > I think it is okay to not like her or not appreciate her artistry. i think it would be difficult to appreciate the art and not enjoy it. What i don't think is okay is to criticise her, or worse, because of that dislike of the work. Especially not okay to dislike her work purely because of her ideas. I have read reviews of some of her work where the author didn't stick to the work he or she was reviewing but started to slam her as a person. That is not ethical and, imo, a failure on their part to do their job, which is to review the work, or at least that is my assumption as to what their job is. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:27:43 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC >>> Smurf 2/22/2005 8:57:46 PM >>> - --Smurf, Who Really Doesn't Know Claudio At All NPIMH: Dave van Ronk singing the entire Ft. Myers phone book to Jimmy, who is tied to a bedpost Hey, Isn't it that weather Channel guy that Jimmy always raves about??? Steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:35:04 -0500 From: JSerkes@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #87 Do Joni, shit that is a hard one....tongue and cheek shall we sa...ok my answer is HELL YES. Dylan in his youth even.....NOT However, most jewish boyz of my time, could not dance but could do the FUNKY THING... Now, would we all make love to Laura Nyro? Me thinks SO your lil pest....Nyrogrl!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:05:17 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni's unpoularity I think of Joni as a few different things, among them "painter"...but I also from time to time think of her as a cook! A "chef" of sorts. And some of her dishes I prefer not to eat (at least not on a regular basis), because they contain, say, either liver or eggplant, or some other thing that for some reason is unpalatable to me. But hey - the rest of the world loves it! So it must be great stuff, this liver and this eggplant. So I recognize it as a limitation in my palate, not as any flaw in her "menu". :) Em ps anyway.., btw, I didn't realize Joni was unpopular! I mean she had a Grammy winning album not all that long ago! - --- tantra_apso wrote: > I think it is okay to not like her or not appreciate her artistry. i > > think it would be difficult to appreciate the art and not enjoy it. > What i don't think is okay is to criticise her, or worse, because of > that dislike of the work. Especially not okay to dislike her work > purely > because of her ideas. > I have read reviews of some of her work where the author didn't stick > to > the work he or she was reviewing but started to slam her as a person. > > That is not ethical and, imo, a failure on their part to do their > job, > which is to review the work, or at least that is my assumption as to > what their job is. > > -- > bw > colin > http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > ===== "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube." - ----- Hunter S. Thompson 1937-2005, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:54:27 GMT From: "Ruth Davis" Subject: Re: Musical date (NJC) Sherelle, I would like 2 tickets for the April 16 performance. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:56:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Starbucks NJC Is too much or not enough caffeine that has so many people so touchy & grouchy? How's that for tying two threads together... before I set anyone of I am just trying to make a silly joke... Believe it or not today is the first day I've seen sun in a week... here in socal where people die from rainstorms... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:16:12 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Have you guys seen this? !!! Secret Gardens of Hollywood and Private Oases in Los Angeles by Lennard, Erica Description This book offers a peek into the most beautiful private gardens of Los Angeles, one of the most verdant places on earth. Life here is meant to be lived outdoors and extravagantly, and these gardens reflect the town's larger-than-life personalities who take pride in their extraordinary garden sanctuaries. The sunny, warm climate in L.A. allows garden designers to unleash their most creative gardening fantasies, using plants collected from all over the world. The twenty-five gardens in the book illustrate the remarkable range of styles in the area, from Joni Mitchell's whimsical Bel-Air garden retreat to a garden of rare succulent plants at Jack LaLanne's former residence to Ted Danson and Mary Steenburgen's Southern-style country hideaway. Featuring all-new photographs by Erica Lennard, coauthor of the bestselling book "The Art of Doing Nothing, this escape book is sure to appeal to gardeners and star-gazers alike. AuthorLennard, EricaISBN0789308819FormatHardcoverPublication Date09/2003 Steve Time to go to Amazon.com! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:34:25 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Have you guys seen this? !!! Steve writes: > The twenty-five gardens in the book illustrate the > remarkable range of styles in the area, from Joni Mitchell's whimsical > Bel-Air garden retreat I just hope Joni still has her garden after some of the hillsides gave way from all the rain being dumped in SoCal. I've seen her Bel-Air home (from the outside), and if I recall, the back of her house is right on a hill. Jimmy NPIMH : Smurf being tied to the bed listening to every Joni cover CD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:39:31 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: our own survivor, joni's on island It would be fun as long as there's no ganging up to throw people off! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mackoliver" To: "joni" Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: our own survivor, joni's on island > oops. forgot a subject. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mackoliver > To: joni > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:44 PM > > > I think the execs at the stations are making a big mistake. It would be a > hoot to have the jmdl members on an island together. Wouldn't that be > interesting to watch? hehehe > > mack > > np: hissing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:04:39 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC They told me this would happen. Since I am almost as old as Joni, I find the recent photos of her, with the little smile crinkles around the eyes and lips, sexier than her pixie-hippie pics of yesteryear. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Smurf" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Would You Touch Bob Dylan with a Ten Foot Pole? -- NJC > Well, Em has already said she could spent hours gazing at Dylan's > schnoz from every imaginable angle. > > As for me, no. I can't even stand to hear him sing (love the lyrics, > can't stand the voice), let alone "do" Dylan. > > But la Mitchell? Yes. Particularly if she looked like she did on the > cover of The Complete Poems and Lyrics: > http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0609600087.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:22:48 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Joni's unpoularity This discussion of Joni's relative popularity raises a question for me: I have been trying to reassemble my Joni catalogue on CD (y'know the one I have stored on vinyl.). I have been able to find the albums that were released after I sorta got away from her for awhile, but a couple of the early albums and a couple in the middle of her career seem kind of elusive. Does anyone know if any of Joni's albums are out of circulation? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "tantra_apso" ; "tian zhang" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Joni's unpoularity > I think of Joni as a few different things, among them "painter"...but I > also from time to time think of her as a cook! > A "chef" of sorts. And some of her dishes I prefer not to eat (at least > not on a regular basis), because they contain, say, either liver or > eggplant, or some other thing that for some reason is unpalatable to > me. > But hey - the rest of the world loves it! So it must be great stuff, > this liver and this eggplant. > So I recognize it as a limitation in my palate, not as any flaw in her > "menu". > :) > Em > ps anyway.., btw, I didn't realize Joni was unpopular! I mean she had a > Grammy winning album not all that long ago! > > --- tantra_apso wrote: > > I think it is okay to not like her or not appreciate her artistry. i > > > > think it would be difficult to appreciate the art and not enjoy it. > > What i don't think is okay is to criticise her, or worse, because of > > that dislike of the work. Especially not okay to dislike her work > > purely > > because of her ideas. > > I have read reviews of some of her work where the author didn't stick > > to > > the work he or she was reviewing but started to slam her as a person. > > > > That is not ethical and, imo, a failure on their part to do their > > job, > > which is to review the work, or at least that is my assumption as to > > what their job is. > > > > -- > > bw > > colin > > http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > > > > > ===== > "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube." > ----- Hunter S. Thompson 1937-2005, RIP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:56:07 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Would you touch Bob Dylan with a ten foot pole? I wouldn't touch Bob Dylan with YOUR ten foot pole. CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:07:12 +0000 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Starbucks/top50/catchup/and all that stuff OH AND SUDAN 1 colouring sjc? Hello the list............Whoosh ! back from lurking in long silences and raising my head for some short squeaks to prove I am still alive every now and again... probably a bit of a squeak this, but what the heck here I am in snowy-ish England with a computer that is working (thanks Chris its going fine) and feeling that life is tearing by faster than I would like it to. Where is time goin?. Apologies for not crediting everyone with what has made me come out to play but I am short of time. Someone mentioned art classes and music and not wanting to listen to rap(have to say cant stand it .........its just not my cultural rhythm and heritage...although I liked Grandmaster Flash years ago). At my sons school when he is doing his art projects they can have music on or wear their own head sets and do their own thing if they dont want to listen to what is on the player. He is into a wide range of stuff for being 16 and I am glad he is such an eclectic listener. A year or so ago they had the radio on and Matthews Southern Comfort was playing "Woodstock" and the art teacher was saying he loved the song, Appartently Sam said in his "i really dont get Joni.... however" voice ... "Yeah but Joni Mitchell wrote it and its actually better by her but still not my scene" Silence from a very startled art teacher and a bit of cred gained (begrudgingly via me) from the times they have had to listen to Joni HITS in the car.... Starbucks..love it or hate it as a chain ........has provided my kids with a safe and social place to hang out when they want to meet their friends. I like their range of coffees and whilst caffeinne is the norm here you can, if you want (why????) get decaff. OK the muffins are just BIG FAIRY CAKES and not muffins at all..Muffins are thick bready sort of rounds not BIG FAIRY CAKES. that aside their paninis are ok and you know what you are going to get if you dont want surprises... sort of familiar and not too crappy. rather Starbucks that than Mc Ds.....Sam and I love coffee, Liz likes hot choc. Maybe they are evil places (not sure about why any one would think they were.... but maybe...but we have not yet grown horns nor started to worship at the temple of bad things) but they dont have gambling machines in them, do play some excellent music (Jeff Buckley the other day) and they are welcoming of young people who behave (which mine do). They, and I, also like Ottakars book shop where there is a coffee shop and Waterstones ditto. I suppose these are the equiv of Barnes and Noble. You can half read a new book and smear it with your fingers and put it back.... I am sooo naughty..... I used to love Blackwells in Oxford as it stretches under the road.. you could look at books and hear the buses going over head.... ANYWAY........ TOP 50 what a great theme and who started it. i read a few and thought OH YES I so miss that song. I also realise I must get a record deck and hear the hiss and rumble of some of the LPs I have as some of you mentioned tracks from albums I have not listened to for years.... .Oh dear.. I find that top 50s shift depending on what is currently on the play list in my head, The purely hypothetical excercise of what ARE my top 50 has revealed a strong bent towards Canadian artists....... I think I am probably a lost Canadian soul trapped in an English body.... But at the moment my Joni choice would be No Regrets Coyote. I do love this list and know the part it played in my "happiness return" when I joined two Christmases ago. I love it even when we scrap and have fisticuffs and get all hot and bothered and in high dudgeon about things... There are some wonderful voices of reason here, some great enthusiasts for the small detail, some real bouncing Tigger types and some of the quiet ones who just buzz about here and there. I think it helps that we are all basically decent and kind. Maybe I lurk a lot now but I am more peaceful generally. And now "would you touch Dylan with a 10 foot pole"... the only pole I know is 5 foot 7 and he does not know any 10 foot ones.And as to Fort Myers phone book being sung... I think Sir Michael Redgrave did a much better job when he read the directory of "Huntingdonshire Cabmen" as part of the "world of Beachcomber" whcih makes Monty P look sane and the recent upsurgings of loopiness (it is a full moon here you know) all the more bearable. Must go..........Time for me to cook King Frank, Prince Sam and Princess Elizabeths' Supper. I have given the staff the night off (oh if only) ....Something with chicken I expect. OH...been meaning to ask have you, across the pond...yes you....you ex-colonials.... had the food scare about the colouring called SUDAN 1? apparently there are concerns about a rogue batch (it is highly carcinogenous) contaminating various well known foods including Worcester Sauce and a number of ready meals..and flavourings. Luckily I rarely do anything ready.... and we dont like Worcester Sauce that much..... but its out there and its causing mayhem here....... On that happy note good evening..its snowing here (a rare event in my neck of the woods) Queen Lulu. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:41:36 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Starbucks - Now NJC Funny thing is I have a Starbucks right near me that I've never been in. But when I am in NYC I always am early to the theatres, so I spend a lot of time in them, especially if it is cold, hot, or wet out. They are a welcome haven in the madness of the city. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:55:32 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: NJC - Lori's Pic- Now Leather wear Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? Well don't get anything caught in those laces honey! love db >>> "Steven Polifka" 2/23/2005 8:18:33 AM >>> Donna, honey... That's a leather jock strap, dearie. And I DO have one. Very nice. Laces up the middle... Yes, I do hard-core leather sometimes... And if Lori says she doesn't wear a leather bra, I'd say she was lying... ;-P Steve >>> "Donna Binkley" 2/22/2005 3:22:40 PM >>> Lori *I wear do a leather bra ... NOT!! That's ok, I'm sure Steve P. will wear one for the both of us if we ask real nice! JK Steve sweetie! love yall, db This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:54:53 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Starbucks NJC From: Bob Muller Well, you have to pick your battles and if you dig deep enough you're gonna find corruption and nastiness in every corporation. I boycott Wal-Mart but patronize BJ's which is probably just as bad. We all buy music and meanwhile know that all the record companies are corrupt as hell. You can drive yourself crazy and find you're soon with nothing to eat, drink, listen to, wear or drive and you can't enjoy your life at all! I'm glad someone said that! I've just been catching up on two and a half days of digests and this is exactly what was guiltily going through my mind! I want to be a caring and responsable consumer, but i just don't have what it takes (in terms of knowledge and patience to find these things out). At least i'm not alone:-) I had a friend, usually called Cliona, who made many choices around clothes and food and lifestyle based on such ethical decisions. i was never convinced that it could be done entirely. Of course i admire her effort. She would be quick to tell me that the value of her action lies in the attempt and being true to her convictions while letting others know all about this. She was the person that would go out of her way to make her opinions known to everyone - from the average peter, paul, or mary on the street to those with TD, MP, or MEP after their names. Not really going anywhere with this story.... GARRET NP- Neil Young, Only Love Can Break Your Heart - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:48:59 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Starbucks NJC I have known people in my time, who would obsess over the harvesting or labor practices of the manufacturers of necessary consumer products. I'm too busy to project myself that far. I am mindful not to be wasteful and I never litter. I wear leather without a thought. Somewhere in South America, there were two rosewood trees that were harvested to make my two Martin guitars (although I suppose they could have come from a single tree), but I don't lose sleep over it. I'm a little put off by fur stuff though. Go figure. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garret" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Starbucks NJC > From: Bob Muller > > Well, you have to pick your battles and if you dig deep enough you're gonna find > corruption and nastiness in every corporation. I boycott Wal-Mart but patronize > BJ's which is probably just as bad. We all buy music and meanwhile know that all > the record companies are corrupt as hell. > > You can drive yourself crazy and find you're soon with nothing to eat, drink, > listen to, wear or drive and you can't enjoy your life at all! > > > I'm glad someone said that! I've just been catching up on two and a half days of > digests and this is exactly what was guiltily going through my mind! I want to > be a caring and responsable consumer, but i just don't have what it takes (in > terms of knowledge and patience to find these things out). At least i'm not > alone:-) > > > I had a friend, usually called Cliona, who made many choices around clothes and > food and lifestyle based on such ethical decisions. i was never convinced that > it could be done entirely. Of course i admire her effort. She would be quick > to tell me that the value of her action lies in the attempt and being true to > her convictions while letting others know all about this. She was the person > that would go out of her way to make her opinions known to everyone - from the > average peter, paul, or mary on the street to those with TD, MP, or MEP after > their names. > Not really going anywhere with this story.... > GARRET > > NP- Neil Young, Only Love Can Break Your Heart > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:05:48 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Sherelle's post NJC Hi David, Thank yo so much for your response. The words "Heritage not hate" sound hopeful...like a plea for understanding, but as a Southerner, I am glad to hear your opinion. If indeed the flag was created as a direct symbol for the continuation of slavery, I don't see how I can embrace it in any way. One of my friends was a Civil War buff and just loved the history.. He flew a Confederate Flag at their campsite by the lake in Ohio. It should have been obvious to them why Rob and I always made our excuses not to come spend time with them there. They were genuinely loving people but they just didn't get it (or maybe he didn't get it. I think the partner was secretly trying to humiliate me...kindness masked with bigotry) So what you are saying makes perfect sense. There is an illusion of the Confederate flag being more innocent than what it really is. Siometimes I can actually feel the hate come from those who bear it. I did not feel that from my friend but it did make me wonder. I was never quite sure about him but when Ray would hug and kiss me on the cheek after not seeing me for a long time, I knew he really cared. Ray died two years ago from being hit as a pedestrian by a drunk driver. It gives me mixed feelings but I so appreciate your feedback. I am so sorry that you are torn about your family members but I think the hurt and the pain tempers our soul and helps us experience life more deeply. I don't regret my pain David because it has made me who I am. Neither should you. You are a very kind and loving person who has a depth to him that none of those family members would ever understand. Love, Sherelle >Sherelle said: >I'm really enjoying the exchange of thoughts and ideas on this subject. I >can't tell you how refreshing it is to bring these ideas out into the open. >I was just sitting here reading all of the posts thinking about my own >feelings as an African American person. Hmmm.... Fantastic post, Sherelle! It's hard for me to feel as positive as you do about this state of affairs, but I try . . . I certainly hope for and push for a positive outcome. I work hard to be out there, to educate, to befriend. And I guess I do believe that one day we will all treat each other as equals even though I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. And that makes me sad. I am a Southerner, and I don't think there's anything acceptable about "Heritage not hate" bumper stickers. If the confederate flag had been created long before or after The Civil War as a celebration of Southern living, I might buy it. But the confederate flag was created during The Civil War as a direct statement against the north. No, slavery was not the only issue around The Civil War, but it was definitely the most personal and most explosive issue. Any Southerners who think African-Americans or anyone else should accept or embrace the 'southern cross' are either bigots or idiots, imho. That flags represents the ugliest episode in American history and nothing more. And that makes me sad. Mama's side of the family - the family I grew up with in Louisiana - definitely fall into the redneck category. Most of them are such wonderful people - very "Louisiana" people - laidback, funny, loving and always ready to party and dance . . . endless big feasts and any excuse for a celebration. Still, I know they all rushed to the polls in November to deny me, a gay man, rights equal to theirs. These middle-class Baptists spend a lot of money sending their children to the Catholic high school, so they do not have to go to public school with any kids of color, just as they did when I was growing up. And they live in constant fear that people who do not share their religious beliefs will bring the world crashing down on them. Liking them - loving many of them - loving my homeland - does not make me feel as hopeful as I would like about these relationships. And it's hard to feel angry with people you care about and understand on so many levels. I thought things would be so much further along by the time I reached my fourth decade on this planet. Often, I feel hopeless. And that makes me really sad. I promise a happier post next time! God bless, David NP Robert Flack, Come Ye Disconsolate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:48:10 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Starbucks NJC Starbucks gives me the willies too. There's something about that see-and-be-seen thing that makes me feel like I'm on stage. I've tended to get my coffee "to go" on the 5 or 6 times I've gone in. That said, I think they should be exempt from criticism here on the JMDL. :) I'm joking for the most part but Starbucks is a very Joni-friendly company right now. It was very gratifying last week to see 2 new Joni-related CDs on sale. The discs were prominently displayed both at the register and in the vertical rack. The discs might even be a limited edition in that they are not regular catalog. As corporations go, Starbucks "gets" Joni Mitchell. (!!!) In summary: Clear Channel radio: bad guys Ticketron: bad guys independent radio: good guys Starbucks Coffee: good guys I'll take questions now. The world's 2nd most opinionated man, Jim L'Hommedieu Covington, KY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Sherelle's post NJC But if that's the case why do I not see anyone still flying a "Don't Tread On Me" or any number of any other flags? That's "Heritage" too, isn't it? The whole "Heritage not Hate" thing is a way for racists to publicly rationalize their hatred and racism. I see confederate flags EVERY DAY and these are not people who are history buffs, believe me. It's like driving around in NC (especially in Johnston County) and seeing all the "Cat In The Bag Rat Bait" wooden signs out front. It has nothing to do with selling rat poison but rather identifies the shop owner as a Klan member. I think the confederate flag issue is much the same thing - a way for racists to identify each other. It is, as Joni would say, a borderline. Like a barbed wire fence Strung tight strung tense Prickling with pretense A borderline Bob NP: Pearl Jam, "Yellow Ledbetter" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:03:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Have you guys seen this? !!! Hell, that's bound to give a guy BEDSORES! It would take over three days to hear them all if you listened 24/7. And don't let the blue boy fool ya, Jimmy - truth be told he's wild about the frisbees. Bob NP: Drive-By Truckers, "Wife Beater" Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:07:49 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Sherelle's post NJC Muskegon: my once and new home: Catch the Wave with a new Muskegon web site http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us On Feb 23, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Sherelle Smith wrote: > Thank yo so much for your response. The words "Heritage not hate" > sound hopeful...like a plea for understanding, but as a Southerner, I > am glad to hear your opinion. If indeed the flag was created as a > direct symbol for the continuation of slavery, I don't see how I can > embrace it in any way. One of my friends was a Civil War buff and just > loved the history.. He flew a Confederate Flag at their campsite by > the lake in Ohio. It should have been obvious to them why Rob and I > always made our excuses not to come spend time with them there. In my old community they had for many years one of those re-enactment things every May. They were actually quite worthwhile, I was fascinated by the whole thing. Never understood why anyone would be a Reb, or for the WW2 re-enacters, a Nazi SS officer, but I wasn't there to challenge them. Was there once walking back when the engagements had ended, through the camps, with a member of the parish who began to collapse with the heat, A confederate soldier instantly whipped out a bottle of water, much needed, and offered a place to sit - in the confederate camp. After Richard recovered a bit we started to walk to the road and Richard was in obvious distress and a Nazi Waffen SS solider pulled up in a jerry jeep and gave Richard a ride. It was such confusing visuals, I still can't unwrap it all. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity I'm no authority, but doing some simple searches at Amazon, CD Universe etc. shows everything still out there EXCEPT for DED, of course DED in its entirety is on the Geffen box. And looking at Amazon, it looks like Joni's NEXT compilation (when does this madness end?**) "Songs Of A Prarie Girl" is due out April 25. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007UMMHC/qid=1109204051/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/103-9500611-9187003?v=glance&s=music&n=507846 At what point will Joni have more comps out there than original works? She's been cranking these things out like Catholics havin' babies. Bob NP: Van the Man, "Brand New Day" **actually a bit ironic coming from a guy who's working on "Joni Covers, Volume 70"! Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Doug Meek alert!! Set your radio dials y'all This Saturday Feb 26 on CKUA from 9-10 will be the first of a 3-part special on Joni titled "A Portrait - Joni Mitchell". For three consecutive Saturdays Tony King hosts A PORTRAIT - JONI MITCHELL. The one hour shows will take a look at the artist and her music through various stages in her career. The program airs from 9 -10 AM starting Saturday, February 26. For more info go to http://www.ckua.com/ and click on the Joni link in the "What's Happening" section. Bob NP: Radiohead, "Packt Like Sardines In A Crushed Tin Box" Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Starbucks NJC As it happens, ny Starbucks experiences have been anything BUT NJC...the first time I went to one was during a Jonifest in good ol' Topsfield MA...me & Steve & Leslie Mixon and Alison went to one and of course we played Joni music in the rental car and read Leslie's copy of the infamous Joni poetry book with the "penelope: poem in it. Of course, even with all the JC the best part was making out with Alison in the back seat! The second time I went to a Starbucks was in Atlanta in '98 when my wife & I went to see Joni in concert. (Did I ever tell the story about meeting Joni after that show? I can't remember...) We finally got a Starbucks here in town, a stones' throw from where I work but I haven't been there. Now Mrs. SCjoniguy, different story - she has a Starbucks debit card and goes there several times a week. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Rockin' Chair" Yahoo! Sports - Sign up for Fantasy Baseball. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:45:54 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Joni Tribute in Grass Valley California >A Joni Mitchell tribute at The Center for the Arts in Grass Valley is set for March 18 and 19 and is a Saul Rayo production. $18 admission. http://www.theunion.com/article/20050217/PROSPECTOR/102170060 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:07:48 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Doug Meek alert!! Set your radio dials y'all No way I can get this one. The broadcast area is Alberta. One of our listers in Saskatoon with a good antenna might be able to pick it up from Edmonton on 94.9 or 97.5 from Lloydminster. It's also fed to the Starchoice satellite system across Canada. I have the other system :( Doug Bob Muller wrote: > This Saturday Feb 26 on CKUA from 9-10 will be the first of a 3-part > special on Joni titled "A Portrait - Joni Mitchell". For three > consecutive Saturdays Tony King hosts A PORTRAIT - JONI MITCHELL. The > one hour shows will take a look at the artist and her music through > various stages in her career. > > The program airs from 9 -10 AM starting Saturday, February 26. > For more info go to http://www.ckua.com/ and click on the Joni link in > the "What's Happening" section. > > Bob > > NP: Radiohead, "Packt Like Sardines In A Crushed Tin Box" > Yahoo! Mail > > - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:29:12 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: check it out now, joni soul brothers Photos of Wally and me at STARBUCKS looking at the new JONI CDs. (We didn't buy anything though because they're an evil corporation and Joni hasn't recorded anything new.) But hurry, I put the photos on craigslist Omaha! Hee-ha! Check out the one of Wally looking ironically iconically like a saint, or something winged. Hmm. http://omaha.craigslist.org/rnr/61058403.html XO, - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:31:39 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Full Snow Moon, njc (http://rl.channel.aol.com/redir.adp?_type=click&_p=us+rl+space+fullmoon&_m=a1+1+ent_promo_nested+34052+arl_space_fullmoon_nestedlede+0+0&_s=0&_u=http://ww w.farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/fullmoonnames.html) _February's Full Snow Moon_ (http://rl.channel.aol.com/redir.adp?_type=click&_p=us+rl+space+fullmoon&_m=a1+1+ent_promo_nested+34052+arl_space_fullmoon_neste dlede+0+0&_s=0&_u=http://www.farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/fullmoonnames.html) The Full Snow Moon rises Feb. 23. Native American tribes gave the moon this name because the heaviest snow usually falls during this month. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:39:12 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Starbucks I too have to admit when I first read the jabs at Starbucks, I was a bit hurt. My wife and I are die hards. Of course, up here in southern Ontario our only other alternative is Tim Hortons and the like. Believe me, If you tried it you'd spit it out on the first sip. Good coffee is good coffee and Starbucks has it. If you're in the right one, it can be very soothing and relaxing. Last week I heard Harlem in Havana in there (it stopped me dead in my tracks). I have also heard Amelia as well. What more could you ask for???? Doug from Canada ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni's unpopularity Mark or Travis wrote: Looks like it's worth $35.99...or maybe better to say it's selling for $35.99. Bob NP: Ani, "Paradigm" (song of the year thus far) Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:42:39 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Doug Meek alert!! Set your radio dials y'all D'oh!! I guess I was thinking that you get snatch it from the webcast - I'm assuming it'll be webcast at the same time. Bob Doug wrote: No way I can get this one. The broadcast area is Alberta. One of our listers in Saskatoon with a good antenna might be able to pick it up from Edmonton on 94.9 or 97.5 from Lloydminster. It's also fed to the Starchoice satellite system across Canada. I have the other system :( Doug Bob Muller wrote: > This Saturday Feb 26 on CKUA from 9-10 will be the first of a 3-part > special on Joni titled "A Portrait - Joni Mitchell". For three > consecutive Saturdays Tony King hosts A PORTRAIT - JONI MITCHELL. The > one hour shows will take a look at the artist and her music through > various stages in her career. > > The program airs from 9 -10 AM starting Saturday, February 26. > For more info go to http://www.ckua.com/ and click on the Joni link in > the "What's Happening" section. > > Bob > > NP: Radiohead, "Packt Like Sardines In A Crushed Tin Box" > Yahoo! Mail > > - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:46:35 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Joni Tribute in Grass Valley California That looks pretty cool, bro...anybody going to go? And a bit of synchronicity...when I pulled up the link the first thing I noticed was the headline referring to The Vagina Monologues - which I'm going to see tomorrow night. Bob Brian Gross wrote: >A Joni Mitchell tribute at The Center for the Arts in Grass Valley is set for March 18 and 19 and is a Saul Rayo production. $18 admission. http://www.theunion.com/article/20050217/PROSPECTOR/102170060 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #88 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)