From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #84 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 22 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 084 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: CSN in 72 / 74 [Michael Paz ] God Bless Rhino, but hmmm? [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" <] Gallantry, and a couple of plugs...(njc) [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] What the fuck do you mean? ["David Henderson" ] Re: CSN in 72 / 74 [Michael Paz ] Re: hello again [Michael Paz ] Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. [Catherine McKay ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Lori Fye ] Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. [Smurf ] (NJC) What the f* do you mean? [Lori Fye ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["John T. ] a strange thing about Hejira ["bill johnson" ] Re: a strange thing about Hejira ["John T. Folden" ] on second thought.... ["bill johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:33:01 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: CSN in 72 / 74 Lama Bill wasn't the guy setting up the monitors he was the promoter (responsible for hiring competent sound company). It is my opinion that the Dead (not my fave band of all time sorry Victor) was at the forefront of technology and innovation of same to be able to have great sound. I recall some cats I worked wit years ago who developed a speaker box that were stackerd behind the stage at Dead shows so the band was hearing what the crowd did. The problem with that scenario is that putting speakers behind open mics tend to cause feedback. I hear that in that particular instance that it was a success but..... Who knows. Anyways, monitors are a very hard thing to do. Check out Aviom.com for more info on this topic. Bad monitor engineers can make or break a show. Best Paz NP-American Idol (oh yeah baby even me) > > Anyway, in 74 they had a conga player and a real band. Steven was > obviously... not... feeling well but it didn't hamper his ability to play > guitar one bit. Kinda strange. > > Half of the songs were... not... pitch-perfect. I don't think they had > proper monitors. Paz, is it possible that Bill Graham didn't set them up > with competent monitors so they could hear their harmonies? > > Although it was a sound-board recording, it might have been converted and > re-converted too many times. The audio quality was really bad, even at > work. If anyone is still reading, here's the real news: Some of the tracks > had an uncredited but unmistakably familiar female vocal on them, enhancing > the high harmonies. Sometimes, I don't think Joni could hear herself > either. Maybe there was something in the (bong) water? Does anyone have a > tree-worthy cassette or CD-R from CSNY in 1974 which includes our genius as > a background vocalist? > > All the best, > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:34:46 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: God Bless Rhino, but hmmm? Hi gang, In the last three months I've bought the 2-cd Rhino sets covering the careers of Carly Simon, Michael Franks and Jane Siberry. I've also lost count of the number of Rhino re-releases of Dionne Warwick's oeuvre, but they kind of fall into another category. What intrigues me is that the Carly, Jane and Michael releases all follow the same format, a good long essay from a truly loving fan of the artists', a listing of the songs with production and charting information, then a detailed discography with (joy!) pictures of the album covers in question, cross-labeled with the discography. (In other words, X's first album given the reference label "A", then on the next page or so, a picture of said album also labeled "A") Joni only got (or permitted?) one disc. (What, did she get compilation fatigue *now*!!!??) At this point there should be a law prohibiting all compilation albums unless they are put together by Rhino! Anyway, as lovely as Joni's Rhino is -- unlike the other aforementioned three, full lyrics and original paintings by the artist are given -- I wish they could have given her the full Rhino treatment, with two discs, at least one cut from each album (but not, for SCJoniGuy's mental health, I repeat *not* Dancing Clown from CMiaRS), and a *full* discography with a gallery of album covers. I'm especially puzzled by the absence of this last. Certainly Joni couldn't have requested its omission -- she who pushed through that four-disc set from the Geffen years -- could there have been legal problems? I don't know how these things work... Oh, one last thing -- two of the paintings -- the first looking like it may date froim the '80's, and the other very recent -- have the same subject matte r: Joni holding red-orange lilies in both hands, the bouquet in her right hand held higher. They rang a bell the moment I first saw the cover. Did Frieda Kahlo do a self-portrait just like this? It looks so familiar... Rainy-day ramblings/musings... hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:41:20 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. njc "When the going gets weird the weird turn pro." Whoa, this is hard to take! I want to believe he was just doing something stupid. Maybe he was trying to reset the weight on a coo coo clock, using a Glock 9mm, pointing it over his shoulder, at arm's length. That would be Hunter. To Gonzo, "We'll miss you during this mad, brutal, spring of '05. Take some time to chill out with MG before you try life again. You'll learn a lot by listening to someone so familiar with silence." Amen. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:58:26 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Gallantry, and a couple of plugs...(njc) Mark E. wrote, referring to Carole King: <> I just wanted to say that such gallantry on the part of performers is most certainly not dead. I recently had a lovely e-mail exchange with Patti Witten, who swears she remembered me from a five-minute conversation at the 2002 'Fest, and more recently, I sent Erika Luckett a fan letter and an order for her two most recent albums, one not released yet. Although her manager got the original letter and order, and she sent me directions as to how to order the two albums (The New Orleans Sessions, and Unexpected), I *also* got an e-mail from Erika saying of course she remembered me from (again) a five-minute conversation at a coffeehouse in 2001! Also, she didn't just autograph the two more recent albums, she wrote a personal note -- and in the latter, for Unexpected, she said that I got the first pressing of the CD!!!!! I'm assuming that a fair number of jmdlers are familiar with Patti Witten; she's got three cds out (that I know of) -- I love her stuff -- she does wistful like I breathe -- and she said in a recent e-mail that her next cd will be her most joni-like yet. Ah, the wide-open major and minor 9th and 11th chords. I can't wait! As for Erika Luckett -- if you like Joni/Carly/Carole/Patti, you'll love Erika, too -- in she does it in (at least) four languages (English, Spanish, Portuguese, French). She's got four CDs out (again, that I know of). Patti's website: www.pattiwitten.com (label: www.itownrecords.com) Erika's website: www.erikaluckett.com (label: BirdFish Records) best to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:05:49 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: What the fuck do you mean? What the fuck do you mean,asswipe? You don't know one fucking thing about me or my friends. What could I have possibly said that makes you think I'm a racist? I've been reading your posts for two months. Do you ever think before you fucking speak? David Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:54:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: rap njc I have never liked the sound of rap. don't care at all what they are saying, the sound is agressive and horrid to my ears. I discovered when hearing rap sung in French, that the words had nothing to do with my dislike of it, as i reacted the same way-please turn it off-even tho I couldn't understand the words. I think there is a touch of racism in those, white or black, that insist people ought to like it. Comments such as those made by the guy's two black women friends are racist imo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:07:45 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: CSN in 72 / 74 It wasn't one of the best greek choruses of all time. Maybe it was the monitors. Paz >> Does anyone have a >> tree-worthy cassette or CD-R from CSNY in 1974 which includes our genius as >> a background vocalist? >> >> All the best, >> Jim >> > Not I. But I've got the original tour poster, I think. Check that. I > gifted it to Paz a few years back. That was the "So Far" tour, wasn't it? > Joni did the art for the album of the same name and the same art is reprinted > on > the poster with the addition of Joan's handwritten tour dates. I know they > did Oakland Coliseum that year...hence the Dead connection, maybe. > > Paz? Look at the poster and please advise, willya? It's probably rolled > up in a cylinder somewhere in your studio. After *carefully* unfurling it, > frame it (professionally, please) and hang it on the wall...while I'm still > young, okay, beatch? :-) > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:08:09 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: hello again Welcome home! Paz > I used to post here fairly frequently (well maybe not all that frequently). > But some of you might remember me. A lot of changes have happened since > then, including moving, etc. Just wondering if this gets through. I've tried > before with no luck. > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:34:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. --- Randy Remote wrote: > > I told my kids that Bob Dylan was the first > to rap with Subterranian > > Homesick Blues. > > Ouch! Rap was invented by white people. Actually, I > think the first > rap song was the train sequence in "The Music Man". > LOL, RR. They both sound like rap to me, but whaddo I know? If you go to google and type "history of rap", you will find a lot of stuff. I'm pretty sure that before rap, there was dub, and I'm sure it all goes back to the African oral tradition, the griots and so on. Fascinating stuff and I just betcha somebody here with some music biz background could sum it all up in a few words. Where is Brenda when you need her? There is a LOT of stuff to read and so little time. The rhythm and the rhyme is the way the storytellers could remember the poem or the history they were rapping or singing about. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:01:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. RR > Actually, I think the first rap song was the train sequence in "The Music Man".< or at least the first commercial rap song... in 6th grade my son loved rap & was pretty good so the music teacher chose him to play harold hill in the music man ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:06:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Mark>Governments make the wars, not the soldiers.< Yep, as steve earle sings, it is 'just another poor boy off to fight a rich man's war' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: God Bless Rhino, but hmmm? --- Justalittlebreen@aol.com wrote: > Oh, one last thing -- two of the paintings -- the > first looking like it may > date froim the '80's, and the other very recent -- > have the same subject matte > r: Joni holding red-orange lilies in both hands, > the bouquet in her right > hand held higher. They rang a bell the moment I > first saw the cover. Did > Frieda Kahlo do a self-portrait just like this? It > looks so familiar... > I thought it looked like a Kahlo too and I went through my art books trying to find something similar and although I found some pieces that kind of suggested this. (Check out http://www.fridakahlo.com/art.shtml for instance. It also looks like an icon of some kind, to me, y'know either the Virgin Mary painted on wood with gilding, or a portrait of a saint or martyr of some kind. You see them holding flowers (roses or lilies usually), eyes gazing heavenwards while they're being consumed by flames or undergoing some other form of horrendous torture. There's some here at http://www.holycards.com/holycards/catalog/index.php but it's just gettin' way too Catholic for me - I think I'm getting flashbacks! If Joni spent some time in a Catholic hospital, she may have seen these kinds of images on the walls and it could have seeped into her subconscious somehow. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:47:10 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Steve P. opined: > p.s. Let's face it, gay guys dance better than lesbians... Hm ... well ... not ALL gay guys dance better. Those "bear" guys don't dance too well, at least not the ones I've seen. Dancing bears ... yeah, just like on Capt. Kangaroo. ; ) Gay rodeo guys dance really well, especially two- and three-stepping and line dancing. Saw a lot of that when I lived in Texas. Queens, of course, dance divinely. As for lesbians and dancing, women who look like gay bears don't usually dance too well. Some women who "pack" dance well, but they've had to have been packing long enough to be comfortable with it; otherwise it's obvious they're concerned about their ... package. Most, though not all, femme lesbians dance pretty well. And generally speaking, many androgynous lesbians dance quite well, especially if they're dancing with equally androgynous partners. Let's face the fact, though, that it all boils down to this very simple rule: If you can't dance well, you probably can't f* well, either. With tongue planted firmly in ... er, um ... cheek, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:48:50 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. Catherine wrote: > > The rhythm and the rhyme is the way the storytellers > could remember the poem or the history they were > rapping or singing about. > Really? Why, those skank ho's! - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:49:08 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Randy Remote wrote: > > > I told my kids that Bob Dylan was the first > > to rap with Subterranian > > > Homesick Blues. > > > > Ouch! Rap was invented by white people. Actually, I > > think the first > > rap song was the train sequence in "The Music Man". > > > > LOL, RR. They both sound like rap to me, but whaddo I > know? > > If you go to google and type "history of rap", you > will find a lot of stuff. I'm pretty sure that before > rap, there was dub, and I'm sure it all goes back to > the African oral tradition, the griots and so on. > Fascinating stuff and I just betcha somebody here with > some music biz background could sum it all up in a few > words. Where is Brenda when you need her? There is a > LOT of stuff to read and so little time. > > The rhythm and the rhyme is the way the storytellers > could remember the poem or the history they were > rapping or singing about. I'm sure you're right, the true origins predate written history. The ancient Hawaiian chants were just drumming and rap-like vocals. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:25:26 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: rap njc To Rap Lovers (no one in particular; all of you): I can't stand rap. It's not the words, really, it's the the beat and the volume. In fact I can't even hear the words because I can't get past the volume. Is it necessary to BOOM it from your car's subwoofer into everyone's ears?? If you think it's necessary, why do you think that? To BOOM it into my ears is insisting that I listen to it. Your rights end where mine begin and you're stepping into my right to peace in my head when you BOOM your rap into my ears. It's not an issue of racism; it's an issue of rudeness and presumption. Otoh, my above complaint could be about any music. A few nights ago I was riding my motorcycle home. I was waiting at a red light, and into the next lane rolls an innocuous Toyota sedan with the driver's window open. I thought to myself, "Is the driver singing along very out of tune, or is whatever's on the car stereo THAT BAD?" It was both, actually. The driver, a woman, was playing some twangy-assed country/western tune, and BELTING it out along with the singer. I almost flipped my faceshield up to tell her that she needed to get better taste in music or roll up her damn window, but then I thought she could have a gun. You never know in the Maryland suburbs. So, let me amend the beginning of this rant. I can't stand rap OR c/w, at least not if they're being BLASTED into my ears. I'll choose the music I want to hear, thank you very much. You can turn your shit down, please. Or off. Just keep it out of my head. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:37:21 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) What the f* do you mean? David, a couple of things about your post to Colin: 1) It had no Joni content. Please tag it appropriately, as NJC. 2) While many of us do use the word "fuck" and its derivations in this forum on occasion, we try to avoid using it in the Subject (as you just don't know whose kids might be browsing the email in their parents' accounts), and we certainly try to avoid using it in anger, especially in anger directed toward another person. 3) It would be far better to take your personal beef with Colin or with anyone off list. In other words, complain privately to the person who has offended you, because it is a private matter between the two of you. Although I am addressing you publicly and would therefore seem to be violating my own third item, I am doing so not to embarrass you or to engage you in a flame war but, rather, to take the opportunity to remind everyone of 1) and 2) above. Thanks. Rap on. ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:01:49 -0500 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc On Feb 21, 2005, at 11:47 PM, Lori Fye wrote: > Let's face the fact, though, that it all boils down to this very > simple rule: > > If you can't dance well, you probably can't f* well, either. Hey, hey! I resemble that statement. Actually people tell me I dance rather well but I just don't feel like I do. :-p John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:59:36 -0600 From: "bill johnson" Subject: a strange thing about Hejira Awhile back I noticed something strange on the cover of Hejira. On the front cover look on the right side of the road. What is that tubular object? You might say a tailpipe to a car-fitting the albums theme.Look closer...there is a head on top and a vein towards the bottomright.Yes...could it possibly be...a severed male organ?!?! If it is a severed "M.O." it would also be fitting as she has been tormented most her adult life about giving up a baby the first time she got Chucks hot monkey love...and the MO was responsible for it all...But then..it could be a tailpipe. Joni's smoking hand also is detached on the cover. What is it..tailpipe or MO? Thanks Bill from IL NP: Robert Randolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:09:45 -0500 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Re: a strange thing about Hejira umm, surely you're not talking about Joni's partially exposed, bracelet wearing wrist, right? :-p John On Feb 22, 2005, at 1:59 AM, bill johnson wrote: > Awhile back I noticed something strange on the cover of Hejira. On the > front cover look on the right side of the road. What is that tubular > object? You might say a tailpipe to a car-fitting the albums > theme.Look closer...there is a head on top and a vein towards the > bottomright.Yes...could it possibly be...a severed male organ?!?! If > it is a severed "M.O." it would also be fitting as she has been > tormented most her adult life about giving up a baby the first time > she got Chucks hot monkey love...and the MO was responsible for it > all...But then..it could be a tailpipe. Joni's smoking hand also is > detached on the cover. What is it..tailpipe or MO? Thanks Bill from > IL > NP: Robert Randolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:13:39 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: a strange thing about Hejira Bill wrote: > Awhile back I noticed something strange on the cover of Hejira. > On the front > cover look on the right side of the road. What is that tubular > object? You > might say a tailpipe to a car-fitting the albums theme.Look > closer...there > is a head on top and a vein towards the bottomright.Yes...could > it possibly > be...a severed male organ?!?! If it is a severed "M.O." it would also be > fitting as she has been tormented most her adult life about > giving up a baby > the first time she got Chucks hot monkey love...and the MO was > responsible > for it all...But then..it could be a tailpipe. Joni's smoking > hand also is > detached on the cover. What is it..tailpipe or MO? So this subject has reared it's ugly head again?! Just kidding... ;o) If you look closer - it's actually Joni's wrist. Her hand is in her pocket, and she has a thin silver or gold bangle on her wrist - or it could be a watch strap. In any case, it's not (despite appearances) a male appendage! Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:38:09 -0600 From: "bill johnson" Subject: on second thought.... Thanks for the quick responses..I guess Joni's OTHER hand makes a whole lot more sense!! As the late Gilda Radner would say as Emily Littella......"nevermind." Bill from IL ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #84 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)