From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #83 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 21 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 083 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. [JRMCo1@aol.com] Vote now! [John Sprackland ] Re: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. [Em ] apology for.... [Em ] Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Lennon & McCartney, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["Steven P] Re: Online radio NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Bush NJC ["David Henderson" ] A new Joni book due out soon [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party [Garret ] Re: Joni in WORD [Garret ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["McMillan] RE: Joni in WORD ["Les Irvin" ] Re: revisiting Joni's choice ["McMillan Brad" ] Joni Opus Collection as Created by the JMDL ["Happy The Man" ] Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. [Randy Remote ] Re: rap njc [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Online radio NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. njc [Bob Muller ] Re: D-to-A converter, njc [Michael Paz ] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? [Michael Paz ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["Mark or ] Re: rap njc [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 03:01:16 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. He took his own life in Colorado. I'm a fan of his books and his contributions to Rolling Stone Magazine and popular culture. The following is an anecdote on his relationship with Rolling Stone editor Jann Wenner. I think it captures his persona well: "When you saw Jann during those days," says one of his editors, "You couldn't help but remember the scene at the end of the Godfather, Part II, when Michael Corleone is sitting there, all alone, having killed all his enemies, and being able to trust no one, except family. And now, for Jann, the only family he ever knew was gone." Or almost gone. Because there was still Hunter - only Hunter was rapidly slipping away. At one time, the two of them had been very close, as close, at least, as Wenner got to anyone who worked for him. Wenner not only appreciated Thompson's talents, but genuinely seemed to like him as a companion. During Thompson's rare forays to San Francisco, he was a guest at Wenner's house, as was Jann at Hunter's when he came to Aspen to ski. Wenner, who had a well-developed, if cynical, sense of humor, delighted in Thompson's continual put-ons, though on some occasions they could go too far. One night, for instance, the two of them and a bartender friend of Hunter's were relaxing in the study of Jann's townhouse, listening to records, talking, and getting quite stoned on hash. Thompson wanted Wenner to listen to a Joni Mitchell album he thought deserved special praise from Rolling Stone, but Wenner had nodded off. So Thompson attracted Wenner's attention as only Hunter Thompson could, namely, by blasting him in the face with a fire extinguisher. Wenner awoke in a cloud of gray gop. It covered the room, but nothing more completely than Wenner, who stumbled out on the patio, gasping for breath. Wiping the goo from his eyes, he crashed back into the room, directly into the sliding glass doors. By the time he reached Thompson, gasping and heaving, he was so angry that he shook his fist, shouting, "It may take me the rest of my life, but so help me, I'll get even with you." With that, Hunter, who was laughing uncontrollably, blasted Wenner's dog and sent him careening out onto the patio, as a demonstration that fire extinguishers were actually quite harmless. (More recently, Thompson played the reverse of the trick on Wenner, when, one night in Wenner's New York apartment, Hunter fulfilled "the ultimate ambition every writer has about his editor," and literally breathed fire on him. The stunt, which is not recommended for the faint of heart, involved blowing a mouth-full of lighter fluid over a lighted Zippo in the direction of the intended victim, who, if he were not fast on his feet, would be engulfed in a whooshing, rolling fireball. Wenner was merely singed.) - -End- Now me again: He was an original, for better or worse. No doubt about that. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:22:04 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Vote now! Hey, the next person to vote on the jmdl album poll can have the satisfaction of voting 'Mingus' into the top ten! Hooray! (Don't forget, Mingus fans, you can vote every month) Go now.... http://www.jmdl.com/poll/albumpoll.cfm John Southport, UK P.S. Would any stateside friend like to send me a copy of the Joni's choice Starbucks CD in exchange for a copy of the Joni feature edition of the Word magazine, plus covermount CD (no Joni but a great track by Rilo Kiley!)? I guess the Starbucks CD costs more but it will cost more fro me to post the mag and CD so I reckon we'd be about quits. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 04:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. Big fan here too. He affected my life. Or, I should say, his writings did. Woke up 20 minutes earlier than usual today for some reason, having decided to ride my motorcycle in, then as I was getting ready - I heard the news about Thompson. And I was glad I was riding in. I wonder what his heaven looks like. Em - --- JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > He took his own life in Colorado. ...snip... > He was an original, for better or worse. No doubt about that. > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 04:39:52 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: apology for.... not putting the NJC. Sorry folks. I do try to remember. :( Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:52:34 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. David wrote: Two of my closest friends are black women, who were thrilled beyond belief when I finally started getting into rap seven or eight years ago. (Gail believes strongly that white people are much more afraid of change than minorities.) Of course, one of my first questions was, how can y'all not be offended by the way these men talk about women. But they convinced me that what really matters is honest dialogue. Finally, people in the African-American community were being honest about the way they felt about each other, about gays, about white people - straight out, no bullshit. People can't talk through the problem until everyone spits it all out - venom and all. I've come to appreciate and respect that, Hi David! Thought provoking post. Thanks! When I read what you wrote about rap here, I thought, "hmmm? verbal diarrhea, perhaps?" It does have its place. Rap crap... I like rap. I don't like the harsh stuff, but there is rap that is a lot of fun out there. Our pastor raps during his sermons sometimes. He is a very talented. He wrote a rap about "The Attitude of Grattitude" that was really awesome. I'm sure there are some older people who don't like it when he raps, but the kids are fascinated. I told my kids that Bob Dylan was the first to rap with Subterranian Homesick Blues. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:00:26 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Lennon & McCartney, njc Lennon & McCartney wrote: "I'd rather see you dead, little girl Than to see you with another man" "Was she told when she was young the pain would lead to pleasure? Did she understand it when they said That a man must break his back to earn his day of leisure, Will she still believe it when he's dead?" "She's a big teaser, she took me half the way there, She's a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now" Lennon wrote: Woman is the Nigger of the World John Lennon Woman is the nigger of the world Yes she is...think about it Woman is the nigger of the world Think about it...do something about it We make her paint her face and dance If she wonbt be slave, we say that she donbt love us If shebs real, we say shebs trying to be a man While putting her down we pretend that she is above us Woman is the nigger of the world...yes she is If you donbt belive me take a look to the one youbre with Woman is the slaves of the slaves Ah yeah...better screem about it We make her bear and raise our children And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother then We tell her home is the only place she would be Then we complain that shebs too unworldly to be our friend Woman is the nigger of the world...yes she is If you donbt belive me take a look to the one youbre with Woman is the slaves of the slaves Yeah (think about it) We insult her everyday on TV And wonder why she has no guts or confidence When shebs young we kill her will to be free While telling her not to be so smart we put her down for being so dumb Woman is the nigger of the world...yes she is If you donbt belive me take a look to the one youbre with Woman is the slaves of the slaves Yes she is...if you belive me, you better screem about it. We make her paint her face and dance We make her paint her face and dance We make her paint her face and dance Hi Ya'll, This song is special to me because the man I eventually married introduced me to it. I liked his "consciousness." Wink. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:30:02 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Because all the men are gay!!! LOL! Steve p.s. Let's face it, gay guys dance better than lesbians... ;-P (hee hee) >>> Lori Fye 2/18/2005 3:57:39 PM >>> > Something I've never understood about Southern Man. Thats one of the > maybe 3 or 4 sort of widely-played Neil songs you ever hear around > here. On the classic rock stations. You hear it alot! > I don't get it, because who could party to that song? Its such a > bummer! I can't imagine feeling jolly and partying with that song on. Kinda like when you're in a lesbian nightclub and the DJ starts playing "It's Raining Men"? Well okay, it's not really the same thing, but I never understood that either -- I don't care if it's got a great dance beat! Why would a bunch of dykes want to be rained on by men???? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:37:11 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Online radio NJC <> oh, i really enjoy Live365 (http://www.live365.com). i've heard some amazing things there that i'd never have found, left to my own devices. there are a zillion stations that you can listen to at no cost (i really like "into the mystic"), and supposedly a zillion and a half more if you ante up the membership fee. there are tons of commercials on the free version, too, but ehhh... not annoying enough to make me pay up, yet. also, yahoo has launchcast (http://music.yahoo.com/), which is old news, i guess, but you can program in what you like, and launchcast will play you stuff that is *like* that, so you hear some new stuff, but it's still in the same ballpark as your favorites. and speaking of such, SHERELLE - i heard this amazing cover of "ode to billy joe" on Live365 that made me think of you.... you'll have to listen to see why. listen here - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jeansynodinos2. she took this song and turned it into something else entirely, a treatment that made me smile and made me remember where you took "edith and the kingpin." (BOB MULLER - you MUST listen to this, too!) happy monday, all! cindy, who has neatly tied together threads about internet radio AND top 50 songs AND southern anthems. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:59:08 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Bush NJC >Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:35:32 -0800 (PST) >From: Bob Muller >Subject: Re: Secret Bush Tapes- njc - pc sorry >mia ortlieb wrote: >such a "poweful moment" for Bush. I mean, how has this affected him really >when apparently he doesn't seem to recall what the Sermon on the Mount was >all about.> >Goes without saying, and I'm sure you know it Mia, but it's just part of his ruse...he can get a free pass on >his drug-addled crooked past by saying that he was "born again" and as long as he continues to perpetuate the >Christian rhetoric he gets to continue his Iraqi genocide and thievery and whatever he wants to do because >he's such a moral guy - sheesh. There was a very interesting article on the front page of the Times yesterday about some conversations >recorded before he became president. Interesting stuff . . . it certainly shows just how calculating he is. I wonder if the religious right will find this offensive or let him slide as usual . . . although I guess this is really as much about how politics works as it is how Bush works. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics/20talk.html?oref=login David NP Green Day, American Idiot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:01:12 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: A new Joni book due out soon >Finally, we have a slew of books about rock 'n' rollers, all of whom have influenced today's country singers and songwriters. They include: Magical Mystery Tour: My Life With the Beatles by Tony Bramwell with Rosemary Kingsland (St. Martin's/Dunne, April); Bob Dylan: Performing Artist Volume 3: Mind Out of Time, 1996 and Beyond by Paul Williams (Omnibus, March); Neil Young and the Poetics of Energy by William Echard (Indiana University, July); Billy Joel: The Life & Times of an Angry Young Man by Hank Bordowitz (Billboard Books, July) and Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now by Mark Bego (Taylor, June). http://www.cmt.com/news/articles/1497273/20050218/presley_elvis.jhtml?headlines=true Happy Presidents Day to all who have off from work today. Brian ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:39:17 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party Thaks for doing the detective work Jamie. Nothing to add other than that this is very interesting. GARRET NP- Joni Mitchell, Slouching Toward Bethlehem Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:47:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party Hi Eaddy and Donna Yes there are various sprinklings of Shakespeare's work throughout Joni's lyrics from the '60s to the '90s. From 'That Song About The Midway' Joni references Romeo and Juliet in her 'And you stood out like a ruby/In a black man's ear.' with Romeo's lamenting in Act 1 ScV O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright! It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear; Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! And I think in 'Borderline' there's a direct lifting of Hamlet in the lines, 'Good or bad we think we know/As if thinking makes things so!' In Act2 ScII of Hamlet, Hamlet is being 'investigated' by his former friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and he is out witting them. In this exchange he asks if they think that the world is a prison and that Denmark is also a prison but they think it's a good one.To which is reply is:'Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing/either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison.' Quite a quick re-working of a line but it's there. Talk To Me has other R&J and Hamlet references, to which she says 'I stole that from Willy The Shake' The line 'COnstant as the Northern Star' happens to be the last major speech in Julius Caesar before he gets stabbed in the Forum. Ah this has been an interesting project... I'm sure there are more direct liftings and I would love to hear the COmplete Shakespeare to get it joined to Joni, just to see where it is from. Much Joni Jamie Zoob - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:05:33 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni in WORD Hi Mark, Word magazine has been on shelves for about two years i believe. As british music/entertainment magazines go i quite like it. Magazines like Q and NME tend to focus on certain types of acts and certain classic figures (Dylan and Lennon and Zeppelin typically). I have always thought that they pay lip service to Joni and, indulge me again, Patti Smith, without ever paying them real attention or delivering a just consideration of their respective bodies of work yet devote endless special editions and feature articles to The Legacy of John Lennon and The Story of Bob Dylan etc. The names of Joni and to a lesser extent Patti are often dropped in these magazines in the appropriate places. The feeling i have taken away from this is that respectable critics or music journalists are expected to pay lip service to certain artists without ever really having taken the time to find out why they are doing this. I am probably cynical, but rarely have i seen evidence to the contrary (which is not to imply that i have never seen evidence to the contrary). This is largely where the common phrase in reviews "the new Joni Mitchell" come from, in my opinion. Most of the time when this is statement is made it is not based on any knoweldge of or appreciation for the music of Joni Mitchell, it is often an insult to said work, and often misrepresents the work of the artist being reviewed. Jewel, for example, was never the new Joni Mitchell, in any way, shape, or form. Word magazine has had Tom Waits on teh cover, Leonard Cohen if i remember correctly and others of that calibre while also devoting valuable and important cover space to people Bjork and The White Stripes. I don't know what that says to anyone else, but to me it says that there is a genuine love for good music going on at the Word offices and, unlike Q, it's not just about putting the latest "The -" band on the cover to sell copies (not that i see anything wrong with the strokes, the killers, the hives etc). Joni really was a logical next on the list for Word magazine and i hold out for covers featuring Nina Simone and Patti Smith too. The article on Joni in Word is nice, although does not reveal anything that has not been well documented elsewhere. That wasn't their purpose with this article. I was very surprised to see Joni's face on the shelf next to Bob Marley and Bono, and very pleased. A lot of it is lifted from the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD i think. As has happened before, the article seems to stop discussing her albums after THOSL. I like the last line. It is appropriate and moved me. I will pick you up a copy tomorrow and send it if you like. GARRET NP- Jeff Buckley, So Real - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:07:55 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc I have a lot of mixed emotions about that period of time. I was very disturbed by the Kent State shootings. But then, I wasn't too happy about being spit on by somebody my own age when I was in LAX. I was in uniform, he was barefoot and wearing tattered jeans. "How many babies did you kill for that", he screamed, pointing at the ribbon on my dress blouse. It was the one you get for enlisting. I hadn't been overseas yet. I was a medic. I knew the spitter and his crowd would never understand. They were just hanging out at the airport, waiting for soldiers to hassle. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > >The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing CSN&Y > "Ohio". I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were > happily singing along with the radio without a clue.< > > i had a similar experience... neil young came to help his old friend david > crosby do an annual benefit for the local schools (where david lives)... > it was a unique concert in that neil played solo... it was very cool > seeing him with just a guitar & voice... he ended his set with 'ohio' & > david joined him on vocals... having been a vietnam protester & living not > far from kent state in the months preceeding the massacre that song has > always stopped me cold... a bunch of people were gleefully singing along > with neil in a kind of happy party mode... it was so strange, like they > weren't even relating to the lyrics at all ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:12:42 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Joni in WORD > The article on Joni in Word is nice, although does not reveal > anything that has not been well documented elsewhere. In fact, I got an email from the author of the article who told me that he did his research for the article at the JMDL library... Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:20:47 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: revisiting Joni's choice Woulda, Coulda and shoulda. We all do the best we can do with the information and resources we have at the time. I'm sure that's what Joni did. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mags h" To: Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:50 PM Subject: revisiting Joni's choice > To clarify, I have heard Joni say that she had no choice but to surrender Kelly Green. I don't hear her say she was a victim in this. What I do hear is a soulful expression of excrutiating pain. Like white flags of winter chimneys, waving truce against the moon, she holds up her pain from that experience as her truth. She surrenders. This is the point I'm trying to make, Joni's truth is that she had no choice. > > From a distant shore of "rational, logical thought", one might see that there was a "choice" ... either Joni "chooses" to keep the baby, or she gives her up .. pretty "simple" from that point of view. However, as Joni has said, 1965 was a very different landscape from the "now" that we live in. > > For her own reasons, the ones she has made public, the ones she has not, Joni felt she had no choice but to surrender her baby girl. Keeping her was not an option that she could sort out. Joni was "penniless" and felt that she did not/would not have had the acceptance or support from her parents. Given the pressure to "do the right thing", from doctors, nurses, the nuns, the social atmosphere of 1965, no wonder she did what she did. > > Sure, we can site all kinds of cases from that time, however, this does not change Joni's reality. It was a brave thing for me to disclose that I've been in a similar situation, which is in part, why I feel as strongly about this topic. I relate to her journey, her experience, the path that Joni walked and continues to walk. It's a fine line, a tight rope, hovering over a dangerous precipice. To take a stainless steel scalpel and peel away all the layers, the raw and ragged edges, to put forth that it's a done deal, to say that Joni had a choice, is to discount the magnitude of what she went through. > > We may never know "exactly" what Joni thought, felt, went through, or anyone else for that matter, but rest assured, what I "can" do is express, with a great deal of (com)passion and knowing from that place of experience, the sheer razor sharp hell of facing such a "choice". > > I write this with the utmost respect for all of the thoughts, opinions and tender feelings which have been expressed, carefully rendered upon these pages by others. I'm not attacking anyone else's thought process, I am giving expression to my own reactions. It is my intention to offer an alternate way of seeing. > > Most of all, I am grateful for all of the posts on this subject as they have helped to inform and clarify how I feel about this. Thank you for propelling me to express my thoughts, just so. > > Mags > > np: silence > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:38:13 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party I wonder if these Joni lines are listed as "covers" on the Shakespeare website? (;-) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Zubairi" To: "Donna Binkley" ; ; Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party > Hi Eaddy and Donna > > Yes there are various sprinklings of Shakespeare's > work throughout Joni's lyrics from the '60s to the > '90s. > > From 'That Song About The Midway' Joni references > Romeo and Juliet in her 'And you stood out like a > ruby/In a black man's ear.' with Romeo's lamenting in > Act 1 ScV > > O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright! > It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night > Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear; > Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! > > And I think in 'Borderline' there's a direct lifting > of Hamlet in the lines, 'Good or bad we think we > know/As if thinking makes things so!' > > In Act2 ScII of Hamlet, Hamlet is being 'investigated' > by his former friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and > he is out witting them. In this exchange he asks if > they think that the world is a prison and that Denmark > is also a prison but they think it's a good one.To > which is reply is:'Why, then, 'tis none to you; for > there is nothing/either good or bad, but thinking > makes it so: to me it is a prison.' > > Quite a quick re-working of a line but it's there. > > Talk To Me has other R&J and Hamlet references, to > which she says 'I stole that from Willy The Shake' > > The line 'COnstant as the Northern Star' happens to be > the last major speech in Julius Caesar before he gets > stabbed in the Forum. > > Ah this has been an interesting project... I'm sure > there are more direct liftings and I would love to > hear the COmplete Shakespeare to get it joined to > Joni, just to see where it is from. > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > > > --- Donna Binkley wrote: > > > > > Joni also references Shakespeare in "Talk to Me" > > from Don Juan's > > Reckless Daughter, a great album IMO. > > And there may be other references I can't think of > > or don't know. > > > > Come on Joniphiles help us out here! > > > > Donna from TX > > > > > > > > I work at a private school in Vermont and I almost > > always get some > > response when I toss out a reference to Joni. A > > workshop weekend with > > > > colleagues took on a "hexagram of the heavens" theme > > -- we were seeing > > > > them everywhere and wondering just what in the heck > > that false alarm > > was, for two whole days. (I still don't know what it > > is. . . good topic > > > > for the party, or the list, perhaps.) > > > > I was in the office the other day, preparing for > > class, when I came > > across the lines in Shakespeare's Caesar "I am as > > constant as the > > northern star . . . ." I was so psyched that I > > called out to the group > > > > of parents, staff and teachers "Joni? You know Joni? > > Listen to this!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:05:08 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: hello again Loud & Clear Bruce, welcome home! Donna from TX >>> Bruce Kimerer 2/20/2005 1:00:48 PM >>> I used to post here fairly frequently (well maybe not all that frequently). But some of you might remember me. A lot of changes have happened since then, including moving, etc. Just wondering if this gets through. I've tried before with no luck. Bruce This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:09:11 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Joni Opus Collection as Created by the JMDL I know I don't post much but I was thinking of the songs on the Opus Collection and why they are picked. I could have spent hours recollecting stories behind each Joni song but this one was one that truly impacted me. So I thought why not a Joni Opus collection by the JMDL that list a song of Joni's that impressed us enough to make a difference and the story behind it. Selfishly Here's Mine: It was Feb 7, 2000 just a few days after Wally Breese left us. The emotion of the week after reading the post of the JMDL community and the release of the Both Sides Now CD the in two days kind of came to a head when I was driving home Sunday evening. Jody Denberg had interview Joni after TTT (links below) and Wally had written about the interview. I emailed Jody earlier in the week about Wally's passing and he thanked me for letting him know. So as I pulled up in my driveway the song comes on and the grief of the week just overwhelms me. Only few times in my life have I heard a song clearer in my soul. 1) Both Sides Now (2000) - Feb 7, 2000 played by Jody Denberg on KGSR Radio 107.1 Austin, Texas. Jody does a Sunday night show where he previews releases of new albums. He previewed "Both Sides Now" but added the following comments before playing the song. Jody followed by talking about Wally, his creation, his relationship with Joni and dedicated the song in his memory. He plugged the album the new album and ended by saying of Wally. "Sweet bird you are Briefer than a falling star". http://www.jonimitchell.com/JoniAndJodyIV98.html http://www.kgsr.com/iTOOLIncludes/6305.php Peace, Craig NP: Reckless Kelly - Baby's Got A Whole Lot More. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:12:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc I have the same mixed feelings as you do brad... a lot of people were total ignorants such as the spitter you mentioned... a lot of people used violence when protesting violence which was insane... some of us protested in a nonviolent way with speeches & marches (& getting tear gassed for simply assembling)... it was a very conflicted time... >I have a lot of mixed emotions about that period of time. I was very disturbed by the Kent State shootings. But then, I wasn't too happy about being spit on by somebody my own age when I was in LAX. I was in uniform, he was barefoot and wearing tattered jeans. "How many babies did you kill for that", he screamed, pointing at the ribbon on my dress blouse. It was the one you get for enlisting. I hadn't been overseas yet. I was a medic. I knew the spitter and his crowd would never understand. They were just hanging out at the airport, waiting for soldiers to hassle.< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:28:38 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Kate; In contrast to the airport protestors, when I eventually showed back up at my university, I found myself greeted warmly by vets and protestors alike. I guess being a recognizable human being was different from being another faceless devil in a uniform. I remember that the school wisely authorized peaceful demonstrations and rallies. We never had any real unrest. But I do recall getting paranoid at one rally I attended (obviously before I got a draft notice). We were assembled in the open grassy area in front of the student center. I was listening to what the various speakers had to say and then recognized that there were men in dark suits and sunglasses on the roof taking pictures of the crowd with 35mm cameras with looong lenses. I knew I planned to enter the service after I graduated, so didn't want a dossier started on me as a war protestor. I pulled my hat down and worked my way out of the crowd. They showed me. Got me middle of jr yr. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: "'McMillan Brad'" ; Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: RE: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > I have the same mixed feelings as you do brad... a lot of people were total > ignorants such as the spitter you mentioned... a lot of people used violence > when protesting violence which was insane... some of us protested in a > nonviolent way with speeches & marches (& getting tear gassed for simply > assembling)... it was a very conflicted time... > > >I have a lot of mixed emotions about that period of time. I was very > disturbed by the Kent State shootings. But then, I wasn't too happy about > being spit on by somebody my own age when I was in LAX. I was in uniform, he > was barefoot and wearing tattered jeans. "How many babies did you kill for > that", he screamed, pointing at the ribbon on my dress blouse. It was the > one you get for enlisting. I hadn't been overseas yet. I was a medic. I knew > the spitter and his crowd would never understand. They were just hanging out > at the airport, waiting for soldiers to hassle.< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:44:18 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. njc Who could forget "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" ? And of course, the Duke character in Doonesbury was based on Thompson. "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone.... but they've always worked for me. " "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." "America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:56:06 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC political song content, sexist, etc. > I told my kids that Bob Dylan was the first to rap with Subterranian > Homesick Blues. Ouch! Rap was invented by white people. Actually, I think the first rap song was the train sequence in "The Music Man". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:57:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party > Talk To Me has other R&J and Hamlet references, to > which she says 'I stole that from Willy The Shake' > Jamie Zoob Itself a reference to Lord Buckley. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:00:36 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Joni references Shakespeare/Joni Party Thanks Jamie! Very interesting, and hats off to your Shakesperean expertise. db >>> Jamie Zubairi 2/20/2005 3:47:30 PM >>> Hi Eaddy and Donna Yes there are various sprinklings of Shakespeare's work throughout Joni's lyrics from the '60s to the '90s. From 'That Song About The Midway' Joni references Romeo and Juliet in her 'And you stood out like a ruby/In a black man's ear.' with Romeo's lamenting in Act 1 ScV O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright! It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear; Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear! And I think in 'Borderline' there's a direct lifting of Hamlet in the lines, 'Good or bad we think we know/As if thinking makes things so!' In Act2 ScII of Hamlet, Hamlet is being 'investigated' by his former friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and he is out witting them. In this exchange he asks if they think that the world is a prison and that Denmark is also a prison but they think it's a good one.To which is reply is:'Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing/either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison.' Quite a quick re-working of a line but it's there. Talk To Me has other R&J and Hamlet references, to which she says 'I stole that from Willy The Shake' The line 'COnstant as the Northern Star' happens to be the last major speech in Julius Caesar before he gets stabbed in the Forum. Ah this has been an interesting project... I'm sure there are more direct liftings and I would love to hear the COmplete Shakespeare to get it joined to Joni, just to see where it is from. Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Donna Binkley wrote: > > Joni also references Shakespeare in "Talk to Me" > from Don Juan's > Reckless Daughter, a great album IMO. > And there may be other references I can't think of > or don't know. > > Come on Joniphiles help us out here! > > Donna from TX > > > > I work at a private school in Vermont and I almost > always get some > response when I toss out a reference to Joni. A > workshop weekend with > > colleagues took on a "hexagram of the heavens" theme > -- we were seeing > > them everywhere and wondering just what in the heck > that false alarm > was, for two whole days. (I still don't know what it > is. . . good topic > > for the party, or the list, perhaps.) > > I was in the office the other day, preparing for > class, when I came > across the lines in Shakespeare's Caesar "I am as > constant as the > northern star . . . ." I was so psyched that I > called out to the group > > of parents, staff and teachers "Joni? You know Joni? > Listen to this!" > ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:54:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: rap njc I have never liked the sound of rap. don't care at all what they are saying, the sound is agressive and horrid to my ears. I discovered when hearing rap sung in French, that the words had nothing to do with my dislike of it, as i reacted the same way-please turn it off-even tho I couldn't understand the words. I think there is a touch of racism in those, white or black, that insist people ought to like it. Comments such as those made by the guy's two black women friends are racist imo. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:32:38 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: rap njc On Feb 21, 2005, at 4:54 PM, colin wrote: > I have never liked the sound of rap. don't care at all what they are > saying, the sound is agressive and horrid to my ears. I discovered when > hearing rap sung in French, that the words had nothing to do with my > dislike of it, as i reacted the same way-please turn it off-even tho I > couldn't understand the words. > > I think there is a touch of racism in those, white or black, that > insist > people ought to like it. Comments such as those made by the guy's two > black women friends are racist imo. > I have no idea what the genesis of this is, however, I am unaware of anyone insisting that others must like rap. I happen to love rap as is well known, also that I am very de classe compared to so many here. I won't even begin to raise the racism issue with those who hate rap, because it is too complex an issue for that, so why is it being tossed the other way? Besides, the definition of racism includes the power to enforce, and thus by definition - precisely by definition - in European based cultures such as almost all of us live in, it is definitionally impossible for blacks to be racist since they are on on the short end of the power spectrum, let alone black women. Yeah, yeah, now we get the confusion between racism and bigotry and every other word. But why the rap on rap? In the 60s, Mr. Dylan said, "don't criticize what you don't understand." I also find the disparagement of forms of music of which the disparager is almost totally unfamiliar ("it sounds it noise, not like the music of my genearation") reminds me a lot of narrow minded folks in the 60s dissing rock and roll (hi, mom and Dad!). I for one do not understand nor do I like jazz. Yet I find no need to rip it, ad hominem or not, because it is not my cup of tea. It is a great art form for others, and I respect that. Why can't the respect be returned? And why close one's self off to a whole art form? Hope I die before I get old. Vince rap rocks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:45:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Online radio NJC <(BOB MULLER - you MUST listen to this, too!)> Thanks for the link, and thanks for bossing me around too...you KNOW I love to be dominated. A nice blend of the James Brown horns with a Laura Love-ish vocal...cool. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Rose Darling" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Hunter S. Thompson - R.I.P. njc Here's his incredible piece about campaign 2004 (a caveat - it's LONG) http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6562575 And his next door neighbor was none other than...Bandar Bush. So if you're the conspiracy theory type, have at it. Was it indeed suicide? Whatever, he was a unique voice and a talented writer, I'll miss him. Bob NP: Anthony Arizaga, "Help Me" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:05:46 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: D-to-A converter, njc Lama I use to sell some of their products and even owned a couple of their EQ's. What box are you referring to? Is it an A to D converter? I would like to hear some of the stuff you have converted esp. Sketches cause I am very familiar with that piece and something from Shadows Amelia/Pat's Solo (the best solo of all time)/Hejira. Best Paz > Have any of the musicians out there bought any add-ons for home studios from > a company in Rochester, New York called "ART", for Applied Research and > Technology? > > I bought a small box that converts "bits" into music. I found an online > community of electronics buffs who have figured out how to replace a handful > of parts in it and elevate its performance even further. I had it decoding > the Shadows and Light DVD all last night, then all day today, to break it > in. Right now it's making the best sound I've ever had from CDs on > "Sketches Of Spain". $199 list / $120 new including shipping from an dealer > I found on Audiogon. > > As good as it is now, it will be even better after a full week of continuous > use and a few modifications. heh heh > > All the best, > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:12:05 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? I have a few of these shows on CDR that I would be happy to burn for you if you are interested. Best Paz NP-Chief-Patty Griffin Live > Wow. I wish I could hear that version The Banquet. I suppose there are no > recordings of it, right? > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Michael Paz [mailto:michael@thepazgroup.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:37 PM >>>> To: David Henderson; Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu; Joni Digest >>>> Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? >>>> >>>> >>>>> I wondered if anyone else thought this was an outrageous slight. Led >>>>> Zeppelin is one of the most influential bands in the history >>>> of rock, and >>>>> they were given the fleeting recognition of a one-hit wonder >>>> on the Grammys. >>>> I agree about Zep. Banquet would have been a great Zep tune. I >>>> love the live >>>> versions from the WTRF tour with Mike Landau on guitar. Zep >>>> would have taken >>>> it up a notch or two fro there. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:12:11 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Los Beatles look at women folk, njc Okay, I'll play. Sir George may have been ahead of the curve on the topic of respect for women: "If I had some more time to spend then I guess I'd be with you, my friend." "something in her smile that shows me I don't wanna leave her now. You know, I believe and how." Then there was Sir John's violent side: "She told me she worked in the morning and started to laugh. So, I lit a fire." And Sir Paul's dirty side: "Why don't we do it in the road?" And Carole King's hurt side: "My baby's got me locked up in chains." Richard quoted these: "I'd rather see you dead, little girl Than to see you with another man" "Was she told when she was young the pain would lead to pleasure? Did she understand it when they said That a man must break his back to earn his day of leisure, Will she still believe it when he's dead?" "She's a big teaser, she took me half the way there, She's a big teaser, she took me half the way there - now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:23:35 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: D-to-A converter, njc It's called the "DI/O" for digital input-output. I've only used it as a DAC and it's a big step up from the Panasonic portable. (Don't laugh though- that $70 portable sounded better than the $129 Sony DVD/SACD player at playing regular CDs.) It isn't perfect though. About once per hour it mutes for 1/2 second (it loses lock). I think it reacts to the furnace coming on downstairs. The electronics buffs say it's sensitive to airborne radio frequency junk like power-on surges. Jim Michael Paz wrote: >Lama >I use to sell some of their products and even owned a couple of their EQ's. >What box are you referring to? Is it an A to D converter? I would like to >hear some of the stuff you have converted esp. Sketches cause I am very >familiar with that piece and something from Shadows Amelia/Pat's Solo (the >best solo of all time)/Hejira. > >Best > >Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:06:43 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Kate Bennett wrote: > I have the same mixed feelings as you do brad... a lot of people were > total ignorants such as the spitter you mentioned... a lot of people > used violence when protesting violence which was insane... some of us > protested in a nonviolent way with speeches & marches (& getting tear > gassed for simply assembling)... it was a very conflicted time... > In retrospect I have to say that I think it was very unfortunate that the Viet Nam era soldiers got blamed for what they were ordered to do. Most of those people went over there believing they were serving their country and doing something that would make a more secure world - safe for democracy, if you will. The soldiers in Iraq believe the same thing. Although I think invading Iraq was a horrible mistake and that we were at best mislead if not outright lied to about the reasons for doing it, I do support the troops. Governments make the wars, not the soldiers. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:30:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: rap njc Vince Lavieri wrote: > > Besides, the definition of racism includes the power to enforce, and > thus by definition - precisely by definition - in European based > cultures such as almost all of us live in, it is definitionally > impossible for blacks to be racist since they are on on the short end > of the power spectrum, let alone black women. I doin't agree with that definition at all. I have heard it before of course. Imo, it used to excuse what is not accpetable. > > Yeah, yeah, now we get the confusion between racism and bigotry and > every other word. > > But why the rap on rap? > > In the 60s, Mr. Dylan said, "don't criticize what you don't understand." > > I also find the disparagement of forms of music of which the > disparager is almost totally unfamiliar ("it sounds it noise, not like > the music of my genearation") reminds me a lot of narrow minded folks > in the 60s dissing rock and roll (hi, mom and Dad!). I for one do not > understand nor do I like jazz. Yet I find no need to rip it, ad > hominem or not, because it is not my cup of tea. It is a great art > form for others, and I respect that. Why can't the respect be returned? Why be so patronizing? Did I rubbiush rap? No I did not. I said I don't like it. I have also said many times I don't like opera and I don't this sort of snotty response. > > And why close one's self off to a whole art form? > > Hope I die before I get old. For a rev, you certainly know how to be offensive. i suggest you might try and live by the tolerence you so often preach and get off your high horse and learn not to be so fucking bitchy just because a person doens't like the same music as you. Grow up. > > Vince > rap rocks! > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #83 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)