From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #79 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 18 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 079 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni in WORD ["William Waddell" ] Re: Fresh Air interview njc [colin ] Robben Ford njc [Brian Gross ] njc, all you need is love ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards - njc ["mia ortlieb" ] Internet radio njc [Garret ] re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["mia ortlieb" ] re: correction njc - swastika symbols ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Em ] Musical date (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Internet radio njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Internet radio njc [Em ] re: Slavery, the Civil War, and the Confederate Flag -njc ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Musical date (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Musical date (NJC) ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Lori Fye ] Re: Musical date (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["McMillan] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? [Michael Paz ] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["McMillan] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc ["McMillan] Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc [Em Subject: Joni in WORD Joni's on the cover of the March edition of WORD - 11 page spread but nothing new to report in it. She does, however, get mentions throughout the issue - in the Rufus bit, the Francoise Hardy interview re Dylan and the 'Who does Joe Brown's daughter listen to?' snippet. Have a swell weekend. WtS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:48:42 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview njc Kate Bennett wrote: > I agree that every move we make is a >choice... > it is > we are never victims in reality > that I don't believe to be true. People , especially children, are often victimised by stuff beyond their control. Stuff being out of our control is one thing humans find difficult to accept so we come up with all sorts of illogical or cruel explanations as to why stuff happens which do harm and often end up blaming the victim. One reason victims experience so much guilt is this underlying belief that they could have done something to prevent what befell them or worse, they caused it to befall them. Philosophies that insist we are responsible for everything are harmful and only feed into our own denial about how powerless we are. We need to learn what we have power over and what we do not have power over and not pretend we have power over everything. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Robben Ford njc His having been a member of Tom Scott's LA Express (of Miles of Aisles fame, among others) I remember various jmdlers regarding him as a great guitarist. So with the question "What is he doing now?" I give you a bit of news from today's paper: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050218/ART10/502180320 He's on tour with Gregg Allman's band! Happy Friday to all and Shabbat Shalom to those who care. Brian in sub-freezing south jersey (although it IS still February) ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:52:34 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, all you need is love Sorry, No Joni Content, but GREAT Julius Content! He wrote: Thank you for reminding me that, as ever, all we need is love. - ------------ YAY! I'll drink (a case of you) to THAT! I am so happy that Julius and Laura did the "We Can Work It Out" dance so beautifully. Inspiring and heartwarming. Bravissimo! Only on the JMDL! Peace, Patti NPIMH: All you need is love (all together now) All you need is love (everybody) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:01:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc >My grandmother taught grade school in Little Rock most all her life, Laura. Her name is Anita Williams...maybe your Mom has heard of her. My uncle is a pediatrician and a close friend of Bill's. < This is such a cool connection between 2 of my favorite jmdler! at first glance Julius, I thought you meant your uncle was a friend of bill w... instead of bill c... lol... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:09:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Southern rock and The South now Lake Charles njc Catherine> Lake Charles - - --Lucinda Williams< Ooo, I love that song, thanks cat! I'll be singing it all day in my head... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:29:28 -0800 From: "J. Gonzales" Subject: Re: Starbuck's CD I sent this message last night but I guess it never got there. I love the Artist's Choice CD - it's a great selection of songs. I laughed out loud when I read how "Harlem In Havana" ended up on the CD - only Joni! Interestingly, did anyone else notice in the liner notes, beneath the Miles Davis track, they included biographical info on The Louvin Brothers? Someone didn't proof this one too closely - does this make mine a collector's item? I didn't pick up the "Opus" CD - like most folks here, I own all of the tracks on the CD and could burn the selections out of my collection. But as a completist, I may buy it yet. Reading what the selecting artists have to say is a draw. And who knows? If I'm feeling generous, I could give it to a friend in need of some good music! I think it's a good selection of songs - - not all the usual suspects. All in all, these CDs should do well. Yes, the Opus CD is the third "superfluous" compilation in less than year, but it should have a limited run (these Starbucks CDs tend to) and I think it may actually point folks in the right direction. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:55:59 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards - njc >>I always wanted Zeppelin to cover The Banquet because that song craves a wailing hot treatment. >> Yes, this would be wonderful! I can totally see/hear Zeppelin rockin' out to this song in my mind. And with all this talk of a Janis Joplin reality show, isn't Robert Plant already the number one Janis Joplin copy? Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:42:13 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, all you need is love Sorry, No Joni Content, but GREAT Julius Content! He wrote: Thank you for reminding me that, as ever, all we need is love. - ------------ YAY! I'll drink (a case of you) to THAT! I am so happy that Julius and Laura did the "We Can Work It Out" dance so beautifully. Inspiring and heartwarming. Bravissimo! Only on the JMDL! Peace, Patti NPIMH: All you need is love (all together now) All you need is love (everybody) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:03:51 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Internet radio njc Any good radio stations that can be listened to online? GARRET NP- Patti Smith, Free Money (live 11 aug 2003) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:59:19 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc <> The funny thing is, Neil and members of Skynyrd are/were actually fans of each other. First Neil wrote Southern Man, then Skynyrd rebutted with Sweet Home Alabama, then Neil came back again with Alabama. The mythical feud was apparently all in good fun, however you want to look at it. Neil even later wrote some songs for Skynyrd to record. Oh alabama The devil fools with the best laid plan. Swing low alabama You got spare change You got to feel strange And now the moment is all that it meant. Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders Thats breaking your back. Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch And a wheel on the track Oh alabama Banjos playing through the broken glass Windows down in alabama. See the old folks tied in white ropes Hear the banjo. Dont it take you down home? Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders Thats breaking your back. Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch And a wheel on the track Oh alabama. Can I see you and shake your hand. Make friends down in alabama. Im from a new land I come to you and see all this ruin What are you doing alabama? You got the rest of the union to help you along Whats going wrong? Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:01:42 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc <> The funny thing is, Neil and members of Skynyrd are/were actually fans of each other. First Neil wrote Southern Man, then Skynyrd rebutted with Sweet Home Alabama, then Neil came back again with Alabama. The mythical feud was apparently all in good fun, however you want to look at it. Neil even later wrote some songs for Skynyrd to record. Oh alabama The devil fools with the best laid plan. Swing low alabama You got spare change You got to feel strange And now the moment is all that it meant. Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders Thats breaking your back. Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch And a wheel on the track Oh alabama Banjos playing through the broken glass Windows down in alabama. See the old folks tied in white ropes Hear the banjo. Dont it take you down home? Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders Thats breaking your back. Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch And a wheel on the track Oh alabama. Can I see you and shake your hand. Make friends down in alabama. Im from a new land I come to you and see all this ruin What are you doing alabama? You got the rest of the union to help you along Whats going wrong? Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:03:40 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: the Cause NJC > For the South: there was only one reason to succeed and wage war, and that > was to preserve slavery. > > Preserving slavery is now called "preserving our way of life" and that is such a > pathetic comment it stands alone. It's a case of semantics, really, but "preserving our way of life" meant "preserving our economic system." Horribly, that system was based upon slavery. However, it's really not very different from the U.S. "preserving our way of life" which is based on OIL ... "preserving our way of life" makes it okay to wage war in countries that have oil, so long as we can drive our Hummers for less than $2 a gallon, so long as everything else in the U.S. that depends on oil -- and that's EVERYTHING ELSE -- continues to flow smoothly and our busy, important way of life isn't interrupted. Nevermind the cost of life, or the lives ruined. It ain't you and it's ain't me, and I need to get in my car to buy another pair of shoes ... Whether we support the wars or not, if we're doing nothing to stop them then we're condoning them with our neglect. Guilty too, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:22:19 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: correction njc - swastika symbols <> The swastika symbol is also an ancient North American Indian symbol. I forget what it means. But, several years ago there was a big controversy over a high school swimming pool here in Milwaukee. Apparently the old tiles had swastika-like symbols and some citizens wanted the pool redone. It was a very cost prohibitive measure with many arguing against spending the taxpayer money to remove symbols that were representative of Native American culture as opposed to the Nazi era. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:19:37 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Internet radio njc - --- Garret wrote: > Any good radio stations that can be listened to online? > GARRET > > NP- Patti Smith, Free Money (live 11 aug 2003) > WXPN here in the Philadelphia area streams their broadcast http://www.xpn.org/listen.php Home of David Dye and the World Cafe along with Gene Shay, the *MAN* when it comes to the Folk movement that blossomed in the 60's Brian in south jersey, just across the river from my old hometown ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:32:40 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Point well taken, Mia. I had forgotten about the denouement to that whole Skynard/Young story. "Alabama." Now *there's* a great song (IMO, of course). Gotta play it now, sorta loud. Love, Julius Mia writes: > The funny thing is, Neil and members of Skynyrd are/were actually fans of > each other. First Neil wrote Southern Man, then Skynyrd rebutted with Sweet > Home Alabama, then Neil came back again with Alabama. The mythical feud was > apparently all in good fun, however you want to look at it. Neil even later > wrote some songs for Skynyrd to record. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Something I've never understood about Southern Man. Thats one of the maybe 3 or 4 sort of widely-played Neil songs you ever hear around here. On the classic rock stations. You hear it alot! I don't get it, because who could party to that song? Its such a bummer! I can't imagine feeling jolly and partying with that song on. Its like that episode of Seinfeld where he couldn't make out in the movies because the flick was "Schindler's List". Southern Man just takes the wind right out of my party sails. If it comes on when I'm in the car - I won't even listen to it. ANd I like some fairly depressing Neil! "Old Laughing Lady"? hey no prob! ANd "Alabama" is ok..but Southern Man is no fun. So it makes me wonder why the mindless classic rock stations seem to "like" it so much. Does it make someone feel jolly? so odd........ I mean "Down By the River" is grim - but I'd wayyyyy rather hear that.... so, can anybody else boogie or party to "Southern Man"? lol... not me! Em - --- mia ortlieb wrote: > The funny thing is, Neil and members of Skynyrd are/were actually > fans of > each other. First Neil wrote Southern Man, then Skynyrd rebutted > with Sweet > Home Alabama, then Neil came back again with Alabama. The mythical > feud was > apparently all in good fun, however you want to look at it. Neil even > later > wrote some songs for Skynyrd to record. > > > Oh alabama > The devil fools with the best laid plan. > Swing low alabama > You got spare change > You got to feel strange > And now the moment is all that it meant. > > Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders > Thats breaking your back. > Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch > And a wheel on the track > > Oh alabama > Banjos playing through the broken glass > Windows down in alabama. > See the old folks tied in white ropes > Hear the banjo. > Dont it take you down home? > > Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders > Thats breaking your back. > Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch > And a wheel on the track > > Oh alabama. > Can I see you and shake your hand. > Make friends down in alabama. > Im from a new land > I come to you and see all this ruin > What are you doing alabama? > You got the rest of the union to help you along > Whats going wrong? > > > Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:56:38 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net Subject: the Cause: Oil NJC I agree 100% > However, it's really not very different from the U.S. "preserving our > way of life" which is based on OIL ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:59:53 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Joni i'view on Rhino website I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but Rhino Records has a three part interview with Joni regarding the Dreamland compilation. Interestingly, she talks about including favorites by Dylan and Elvis Costello-(as on Starbucks CD). http://www.rhinorecords.com/rzine/StoryKeeper.lasso?StoryID=295 They also have a link to view a TV ad for Dreamland: http://www.rhinorecords.com/retrovid/VideoKeeper.lasso?Artist=Joni%20Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:10:49 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Musical date (NJC) Hi everyone, (This may show up twice) The date for the Roberta Flack musical play will be April 15th and 16th at 8:15 pm at Market 5 Gallery in the Eastern Market portion of Washington, DC (next to Capital Hill). Tickets are $25. I have the script and will start learning my lines pronto! I am being told that because of Roberta's popularity in the city, both nights are going to be a sell out. I will try to get a block of tickets for friends and family. Market 5 holds 200 people so it is a small venue but the acousitics are terrific from my last experience. My daughter (the business manager) is planning an event for me at the same location hopefully in August or September. I want to do a 2 hour show with my own compositions and anything else I want to throw in including Joni music. Budget wise, it looks pretty do-able. I really want to perform on my own terms and just enjoy it. I think I will be able to do it at this venue so April my daughter (who is really shocking me with her business savvy) has set it to task. I will keep you posted on this as well. So if you can't make the musical play maybe you can come to the concert! Love, Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:23:38 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Internet radio njc > Any good radio stations that can be listened to online? KTCZ in Minneapolis plays good stuff, although there are a few too many commercials. Still, I would give it a try. http://ccri.eonstreams.com/ccri_mn_minneapolis_ktcz_fm.asf You might want to visit http://www.radio-locator.com, which is a treasure trove of internet stations. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:24:14 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc While I agree with your assessment that the "feud" was pretty much tongue-in-cheek, your chronology is incorrect: both of Young's songs preceeded "Sweet Home Alabama", which came out in '74. "Southern Man" is from "After The Gold Rush" (1970), "Alabama" is from "Harvest" (1972). I like all three of these songs. I especially love the snippet of CSN rehearsing the vocals to "Alabama" on the "Journey Through the Past" album. "Now Watergate does not bother me, Does your conscience bother you?" Well, if I was responsible for Watergate, I hope it would... RR mia ortlieb wrote: > < Alabama") and every time I hear it I have to resist the urge to hurl. I've > always seen it as a segregationist anthem and a diss of the good intentions > of Neil Young.>> > > The funny thing is, Neil and members of Skynyrd are/were actually fans of > each other. First Neil wrote Southern Man, then Skynyrd rebutted with Sweet > Home Alabama, then Neil came back again with Alabama. The mythical feud was > apparently all in good fun, however you want to look at it. Neil even later > wrote some songs for Skynyrd to record. > > Oh alabama > The devil fools with the best laid plan. > Swing low alabama > You got spare change > You got to feel strange > And now the moment is all that it meant. > > Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders > Thats breaking your back. > Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch > And a wheel on the track > > Oh alabama > Banjos playing through the broken glass > Windows down in alabama. > See the old folks tied in white ropes > Hear the banjo. > Dont it take you down home? > > Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders > Thats breaking your back. > Your cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch > And a wheel on the track > > Oh alabama. > Can I see you and shake your hand. > Make friends down in alabama. > Im from a new land > I come to you and see all this ruin > What are you doing alabama? > You got the rest of the union to help you along > Whats going wrong? > > Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:44:25 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: the Cause NJC Hi Lori and all, I'm really enjoying the exchange of thoughts and ideas on this subject. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to bring these ideas out into the open. I was just sitting here reading all of the posts thinking about my own feelings as an African American person. Hmmm.... I had the chance to not only go to, but to sing in a redneck wedding last summer. It was my husband's niece's wedding. She and her father even arrived at the wedding on a shiny red tractor. Yes, my brother in law is a redneck to the bone and the core. He hunts deer, drives in the derby, and there is always an assortment of unassembled cars in his yard. But he would give his life for you if you needed him to. When I was at the reception (in the firehouse) I knew everyone present knew that this wedding was as redneck as it gets, but they were proud. I normally would not be caught dead there because of the township's reputation but for love, I made the trip. I noticed something...people were proud of their way of life, not so much their prejudices. It was about their way of life. It was about respect. You know how a group of people separate themselves from the rest of the world and assume their own identity? That's what I felt was going on there. It didn't feel like the label "redneck" was about their feelings towards other races. I only got a glimpse, but that's what it felt like I saw. Here in Southern Maryland a truck drove past me bearing a bumper sticker with the image of a confederate flag and the words, "Heritiage not Hate". Another vehicle passed me bearing the image of a confederate flag and a saying that went something like, "confedreate and proud of it". That sticker made me sick to my stomach. The other one gave me reason to hope for a dialogue. What I learned through a TV documentary is that in the past, monthly and quaterly magazines and journals were constantly published with writings from distinguished authors with credentials in the sciences saying that people of my race and any other race weren't even human but animals. There was much ignorance and mass education of prejudice and racism. If your weren't white, then you were an animal. In my heart, ignorance is the real enemy. Last week, I had to leave my lunch area early because an African American intern was spouting off his dislike for interracial couples. There were a few in there who knew I was in an interracial marriage. Rob and I have never tried to change anyone else's minds on the issue; we simply stay away from those who have a problem with us. I was going to go back to work early anyway but I sped it up a little. That person was informed after I left that my husband was white. He came to my desk later very apologetic because I have always been very kind to him. He explained that his brother was in an interracial relationship which turned ugly and the girlfriend ended up saying some very racially charged things to the brother. It turns out the intern's prejudice was motivated by hurt and pain that he as well as his brother has suffered. He apologized, I accepted and life goes on. I know there was more to the Civil War than just the issue of slavery. It's just very personal to me because my ancestors were directly affected by being owned as slaves. I also know that home is where the heart is and many Southerners love the South because it is their home plain and simple. Sometimes, it doesn't have to be anything more than that. I love the music of Lynard Skynard even though I have heard in the past "Sweet Home Alabama" promotes a stand for racism. I chose to believe that they just loved their home, that's all. Though I see the confederate flag pasted as a backdrop on concert footage, I choose to try to only see their music. It's hard though. "Freebird" is a classic as well as their song (butchering the name) "Can You Smell That Smell". I think his name was Ronnie Van Zant had a premonition that he would die at an early age and that song is an eerie prediction of his death along with "Freebird". I also think they had the best back up singers in the business at the time. They rocked. I guess I will leave it at that. There is so much more to people than just their prides and prejudices. I am an optimist and believe that there is always room for change. Here's hoping.... Sherelle Lori wrote: >Having agreed with part of Mack's post, I will disagree here. No matter >how it is >sliced and diced, that war was about slavery. All about it and only about >it. Oh Vince, are you ever opening up a can of worms with THAT statement! Not too long ago I got involved in that very same debate on another list (remember, Em?), and it turns out (of course) that it depends on your Southern or Northern point of view. Also, last weekend my partner Mary was reading to me from "The Civil War for Dummies" (yes, that books really exists), and it seems that Lincoln made the war about slavery quite a bit after it started. It didn't begin that way. As always, people in power use others' issues -- regardless of how dreadful those issues are and nevermind that they should have been addressed and remedied forever ago -- to further their own cause. It has nothing to do with helping anyone but themselves. If ending slavery and treating blacks really HAD been the issue, then why did "equal rights" take so long to achieve? For that matter, why are blacks in the U.S., in so many cases, still being treated like shit? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Internet radio njc our community radio, WMNF 88.5, has streaming audio, and has a particularly fine morning show that would be of interest to joni listers - plus there may be more! (shows that is - of interest) Great Latin show, check the online program schedule! http://www.wmnf.org :) Em - --- Lori Fye wrote: > > Any good radio stations that can be listened to online? > > KTCZ in Minneapolis plays good stuff, although there are a few too > many commercials. Still, I would give it a try. > > http://ccri.eonstreams.com/ccri_mn_minneapolis_ktcz_fm.asf > > You might want to visit http://www.radio-locator.com, which is a > treasure trove of internet stations. > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:08:23 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Slavery, the Civil War, and the Confederate Flag -njc My thoughts on slavery and the Civil War: The root cause of the Civil War was the institution of slavery. I don't say this just because I'm a Northerner. I've heard both sides of the arguments, even from Southern history teachers. But when you follow the "why's" backwards.. westward expansionism, bleeding Kansas, physical fighting in Congress, slave codes, stupid compromises, economics, leveling the competitive field for free-soilers, tariffs, tilted congressional representation figures, an unresolved Constitution etc...it still leads back to the institution of slavery. As I've tried hard to understand the Southern argument, I've come to the conclusion that all the bickering is over who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. Perhaps the South feels defensive that we in the North are proclaiming to be the good guys. If so, this simply isn't true. Although there were plenty of Abolitionists, most Northerners were (and still are) racist. Even though slavery was the root cause of the War, this does not translate into caring about the well-being of African Americans. It is much more complex than that. EVERY WAR IS A CONTINUATION OF A PREVIOUS WAR. Although America's founding fathers put such great effort and thought into writing the Constitution, they never resolved the BIG QUESTION mark regarding the slaves, rights, and citizenship. 3/5's of a person? Come on, that is so ridiculous! It was only a matter of time before the whole situation would blow up. With regards to the Confederate flag, I must say that with all the intimidation and fear African-Americans have endured, it is quite reasonable to agree that this flag is viewed as a tool of intimidation. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Musical date (NJC) --- Sherelle Smith wrote: > Hi everyone, (This may show up twice) > > The date for the Roberta Flack musical play will be > April 15th and 16th at > 8:15 pm at Market 5 Gallery in the Eastern Market > portion of Washington, DC > (next to Capital Hill). [...] > My daughter (the business manager) is planning an > event for me at the same > location hopefully in August or September. I want to > do a 2 hour show with > my own compositions and anything else I want to > throw in including Joni > music. [...] > I will keep you posted on this as > well. So if you can't make > the musical play maybe you can come to the concert! > Rock on, Sherelle! How about recording that concert live? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:08:37 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Musical date (NJC) Congratulations Sherelle!! Please put me down for a ticket if you don't mind. I've found some good flight/hotel packages and will be coming to see your play. Support your local musicians I always say! I love DC and will enjoy seeing it and you again. If this isn't an excuse for a mini-Jonifest folks, I don't know what is. I'll have room if anyone wants to bunk with me. Can't wait! Love Donna >>> "Sherelle Smith" 2/18/2005 1:10:49 PM >>> Hi everyone, (This may show up twice) The date for the Roberta Flack musical play will be April 15th and 16th at 8:15 pm at Market 5 Gallery in the Eastern Market portion of Washington, DC (next to Capital Hill). Tickets are $25. I have the script and will start learning my lines pronto! I am being told that because of Roberta's popularity in the city, both nights are going to be a sell out. I will try to get a block of tickets for friends and family. Market 5 holds 200 people so it is a small venue but the acousitics are terrific from my last experience. My daughter (the business manager) is planning an event for me at the same location hopefully in August or September. I want to do a 2 hour show with my own compositions and anything else I want to throw in including Joni music. Budget wise, it looks pretty do-able. I really want to perform on my own terms and just enjoy it. I think I will be able to do it at this venue so April my daughter (who is really shocking me with her business savvy) has set it to task. I will keep you posted on this as well. So if you can't make the musical play maybe you can come to the concert! Love, Sherelle This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:57:39 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > Something I've never understood about Southern Man. Thats one of the > maybe 3 or 4 sort of widely-played Neil songs you ever hear around > here. On the classic rock stations. You hear it alot! > I don't get it, because who could party to that song? Its such a > bummer! I can't imagine feeling jolly and partying with that song on. Kinda like when you're in a lesbian nightclub and the DJ starts playing "It's Raining Men"? Well okay, it's not really the same thing, but I never understood that either -- I don't care if it's got a great dance beat! Why would a bunch of dykes want to be rained on by men???? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:58:52 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc P.S. - No, I did not watch the Grammy Awards. Haven't watched them since Joni won for TI. "Junkfood for juveniles ..." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:01:46 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Musical date (NJC) Sherelle, if you'll let me know when tix go on sale, I'll spend the night in line to buy two for Mary and me! : ) And ... Donna? What's this talk of a hotel?? You can stay with us, "real good for free." We live only a Metrorail ride away from where Sherelle will be playing. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:33:47 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc I think gen-x dj's make assumptions about the 60's and 70's that somehow, for them, Southern Man is THE period song. hah! The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing CSN&Y "Ohio". I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were happily singing along with the radio without a clue. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Em" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > > Something I've never understood about Southern Man. Thats one of the > > maybe 3 or 4 sort of widely-played Neil songs you ever hear around > > here. On the classic rock stations. You hear it alot! > > I don't get it, because who could party to that song? Its such a > > bummer! I can't imagine feeling jolly and partying with that song on. > > Kinda like when you're in a lesbian nightclub and the DJ starts > playing "It's Raining Men"? > > Well okay, it's not really the same thing, but I never understood that > either -- I don't care if it's got a great dance beat! Why would a > bunch of dykes want to be rained on by men???? ; ) > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:36:50 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? > I wondered if anyone else thought this was an outrageous slight. Led > Zeppelin is one of the most influential bands in the history of rock, and > they were given the fleeting recognition of a one-hit wonder on the Grammys. I agree about Zep. Banquet would have been a great Zep tune. I love the live versions from the WTRF tour with Mike Landau on guitar. Zep would have taken it up a notch or two fro there. Best Paz > What were they thinking? I think that anyone living in the 70's - even if > they were not Zep fans - would recognize them as one of the majors. And is > there any rock fan that doesn't like something by Led Zeppelin . . . Houses > of the Holy . . . Stairway to Heaven . . . Dyer Maker (sp?) . . . > > I always wanted Zeppelin to cover The Banquet because that song craves a > wailing hot treatment. Or Smashing Pumpkins. Think about it. > > And yet, the Grammy folk did allow us at least three full minutes to listen > to JLo sing a number way out of her more-than-ever-limited reach. Go > figure. > > And while I'm ranting, I think some young people like Kanye West need to > learn the difference between a respectful salute to the ones who first > traveled your road (Mavis Staples, the blind Alabama guys) and a gratuitous > stab at political correctness. > > I think I'll be able to sleep now. ;) > David > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlamadoo@fuse.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:17 PM >>>> To: joni@smoe.org >>>> Cc: jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com >>>> Subject: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? >>>> >>>> >>>> What's up with giving Mavis Staples only 20 seconds on the >>>> occasion of her >>>> family's Lifetime Achievement? All they had to do was give the Staple >>>> Singers a 60 second presentation about Pops Staples' contribution to the >>>> Civil Rights Movement. Ya know: "Pops helped to open the door with a >>>> non-violent message." That would have sent a quick message of diversity, >>>> dignity and non-violence to the US in general (and the >>>> gansta-rap segment of >>>> CD buyers in particular). The recording industry would have looked a bit >>>> more sophisticated and smart too, for a change! >>>> >>>> They found time to educate us about copyrights (which I >>>> absolutely support >>>> of course) but a platinum-coated, once-in-a-decade, opportunity was lost. >>>> >>>> I'd rather not hear them mention Tim McGraw every 15 minutes for >>>> 3 hours, ya >>>> know? Is he the only country artist now? How exactly do you buy those >>>> product placements? >>>> >>>> And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led >>>> Zeppelin were >>>> recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in >>>> the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they >>>> were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! >>>> >>>> I'm just saying... >>>> Lama >>>> >>>> >>>>> I thought two were phenomenal - Alicia Keyes and Jamie Fox (They >>>> should do an album together)- and that Southern Rock salute with Skynard, >>>> Allman Brothers, Keith Urban, Elvin Bishop, etc. . . . That was f*****g >>>> incredible, especially for a Louisiana boy who grew up in the 70's!! >>>> AMAZING, the whole group!!> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:43:58 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing CSN&Y "Ohio". > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were happily singing > along with the radio without a clue. Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? Lori, utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:58:40 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Randy wrote: <> So the classic rock historian at the station was wrong afterall; well now I'm thoroughly bummed - this takes all the fun out of the story. BUT, then again, didn't Joni write Little Green like some five years before she released it on Blue? So, I started digging around on the Internet for more information. The rumour I discovered was that, even though Sweet Home Alabama was released on Skynyrd's second album, it was actually written before they recorded their first album. And it appears they had been around for some years before they actually got their first record deal. Could Neil have bumped into them on the road somewhere? It is really hard to verify information on the Internet. I even question websites like songfacts.com. I mean where do they get there info from? Where are the sources? and it looks like anybody can post their beliefs on this site. I need to find a date the song was written. Not the recording date, not even a copyright date. Can anyone help out? I looked at one of my old Skynyrd records "One More From the Road" to see if there is a date for Sweet Home Alabama, but unfortunately there is not. However, there is a funny quote from Neil included on the inside cover: "'Sweet Home Alabama' proved to be Lynyrd Skynyrd's first huge blast of stardom . Both musically and lyrically, it was the ballsiest single to break through in years. Crowds knew all the words. Even Neil Young, who is teased by name in the song, had to admit it: 'They play like they mean it. I'm proud to have my name in a song like theirs.'" Mia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:03:03 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc thats like I saw some flick - forget what it was - that was using "Fortunate Son" as some kind of "gung-ho - let's go" (off to war) song. Don't they know its ANTI war, that song??? I didn't get it. Em - --- Lori Fye wrote: > > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing > CSN&Y "Ohio". > > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were happily > singing > > along with the radio without a clue. > > Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." > > Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? > > Lori, > utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted > (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Led Zep doing "Banquet" NJC well maybe but I'm not risking it.. you know what? I can't picture it.... I'm trying hard to imagine it..I love them - Led Zep III album being my fave. But everything they did, to me, was so off the wall and original and really kinky musically...that even though I adore the idea of them doing it, I totally can't even BEGIN to presume how it would sound. Food for thought tho!!!!!!! would it be one of their acoustic-ish things? :P Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:58:27 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Internet radio njc hi >>>garret wrote >>>> Any good radio stations that can be listened to online? wyep is a safe bet: http://www.wyep.org well - any radio station that lists joni as one of their core artists just has to be great. *and* they have a link to jonimitchell.com !!! their list of core artists looks like a list of jmdl picks: http://www.wyep.org/wyep/music_programs/essential_artists.asp ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:34:40 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc If you were going in, or already in, when Fortunate Son was popular, it wasn't "gung-ho", but we sang with gusto for the irony. We knew we were not fortunate sons. Jumping Jack Flash was popular for one line: "and it's awlll riiight, back at the camp..." "If you come to San Francisco" pissed us off. Jimmy Hendricks was always cool. Sometimes the flicks get the period songs right, they just get the context wrong. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Lori Fye" ; "McMillan Brad" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > thats like I saw some flick - forget what it was - that was using > "Fortunate Son" as some kind of "gung-ho - let's go" (off to war) song. > Don't they know its ANTI war, that song??? > I didn't get it. > Em > > --- Lori Fye wrote: > > > > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing > > CSN&Y "Ohio". > > > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were happily > > singing > > > along with the radio without a clue. > > > > Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." > > > > Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? > > > > Lori, > > utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted > > (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:37:52 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Oh, and I think the flick you saw was Platoon, an anti-war war movie if there ever was one. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "Lori Fye" ; "McMillan Brad" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc > thats like I saw some flick - forget what it was - that was using > "Fortunate Son" as some kind of "gung-ho - let's go" (off to war) song. > Don't they know its ANTI war, that song??? > I didn't get it. > Em > > --- Lori Fye wrote: > > > > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing > > CSN&Y "Ohio". > > > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were happily > > singing > > > along with the radio without a clue. > > > > Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." > > > > Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? > > > > Lori, > > utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted > > (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc Hi Brad, thanks for the real world perspective. Makes sense. Lots. This one flick tho, they didn't get the "irony" right at all. Or at least it didn't feel like it. Or maybe I didn't get it? I'm really sensitive to intent and irony usually..lol. Seems that song has been used in more than one Vietnam flick? or? and I've heard it work to good effect too. Not sure what this last one was, but it rang false. Might have even been a TV show...or was it in the Bush Campaign? thx, Em - --- McMillan Brad wrote: > If you were going in, or already in, when Fortunate Son was popular, > it > wasn't "gung-ho", but we sang with gusto for the irony. We knew we > were not > fortunate sons. Jumping Jack Flash was popular for one line: "and > it's awlll > riiight, back at the camp..." "If you come to San Francisco" pissed > us off. > Jimmy Hendricks was always cool. Sometimes the flicks get the period > songs > right, they just get the context wrong. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Lori Fye" ; "McMillan Brad" > > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards > -njc > > > > thats like I saw some flick - forget what it was - that was using > > "Fortunate Son" as some kind of "gung-ho - let's go" (off to war) > song. > > Don't they know its ANTI war, that song??? > > I didn't get it. > > Em > > > > --- Lori Fye wrote: > > > > > > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing > > > CSN&Y "Ohio". > > > > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were > happily > > > singing > > > > along with the radio without a clue. > > > > > > Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." > > > > > > Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? > > > > > > Lori, > > > utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted > > > (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:44:37 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards -njc no no no! it "worked" in Platoon! this song was used elsewhere too, dumbly. Should have figured out where or what flick or show before I posted. In "Platoon" the meaning was definatley clear and that was a great flick - tho hard to watch. :) Em - --- McMillan Brad wrote: > Oh, and I think the flick you saw was Platoon, an anti-war war movie > if > there ever was one. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Em" > To: "Lori Fye" ; "McMillan Brad" > > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: Southern Man was: re: Anybody Watch the Grammy Awards > -njc > > > > thats like I saw some flick - forget what it was - that was using > > "Fortunate Son" as some kind of "gung-ho - let's go" (off to war) > song. > > Don't they know its ANTI war, that song??? > > I didn't get it. > > Em > > > > --- Lori Fye wrote: > > > > > > The other day, the local FM "classic rock" station was playing > > > CSN&Y "Ohio". > > > > I had to explain to the office what it was about. They were > happily > > > singing > > > > along with the radio without a clue. > > > > > > Oh yeah, THAT's a happy song! "Four dead in Ohio ..." > > > > > > Do these people LISTEN to what they're singing??? > > > > > > Lori, > > > utterly convinced that the gene pool is diluted > > > (and who, incidentally, grew up very near Kent) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #79 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)