From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #78 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 18 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 078 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: another canadian s/s jumps ship -- njc [Doug ] FW: Comment from JMDL site ["Les Irvin" ] Re: the Cause NJC [revrvl@comcast.net] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Starbuck's CD [Deb Messling ] Re: Starbuck's CD [Rusty10113@aol.com] Joni in Macleans [mags h ] more on macleans [mags h ] Re: Joni in Macleans njc [Brian Gross ] Re: another canadian s/s jumps ship -- njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Southern rock and The South now Lake Charles njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: FW: Comment from JMDL site [Catherine McKay ] Re: Fresh Air interview ["Kate Bennett" ] symbols njc ["Kate Bennett" ] The South njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Artist's Choice:Joni Mitchell AND songs chosen by her friends & fellow musicians ["c Karma" Subject: Re: another canadian s/s jumps ship -- njc Keep her. Please Doug Smurf wrote: >Whether it's our own special brand of racism, road rage or freedom fries, I guess the US is where Canadian singer/songwriters want to be. This is from Yahoo News: > >Alanis Morissette Becomes U.S. Citizen > >Thu Feb 17, 7:43 AM ET > > >LOS ANGELES - Canadian Alanis Morissette (news) is now an American citizen. >The 30-year-old singer was among some 4,500 people who took the citizenship oath during a ceremony last week at the Los Angeles Convention Center. Morissette isn't turning her back on Canada  she's maintaining dual citizenship. > >"I will never renounce my Canadian citizenship," Morissette said in a statement Wednesday. "I consider myself a Canadian-American. > >"There was a turning point during the ceremony where I felt connected to this country in a way that I didn't quite expect," she said. "America has been really great to me and I have felt welcomed since the day I came here." > >Morissette's songs include "Ironic" and "You Oughta Know." > >___ > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:16:52 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Comment from JMDL site Since the redesign of the JMDL, a lot of comments are coming through the site. Thought I'd continue to pass some of them along. Be sure to copy Paul's email on any responses. Les - -----Original Message----- From: Paul byrd9999@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 AM i'm looking for interpretation/discussion on Harry's House/Centrepiece, but you only seem to have feedback on a few songs. Can you help? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:13:36 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net Subject: Re: the Cause NJC Me open a can of worms? Ha ha! For Lincoln, the war began and I think ended being about preserving the Union. He became a supporter of emanicipation in 1862 or 1863, but the was first of all for the Union. For the North: some were for Union, some were abolition. For the South: there was only one reason to succeed and wage war, and that was to preserve slavery. Preserving slavery is now called "preserving our way of life" and that is such a pathetic comment it stands alone. Vince > Oh Vince, are you ever opening up a can of worms with THAT statement! > Not too long ago I got involved in that very same debate on another > list (remember, Em?), and it turns out (of course) that it depends on > your Southern or Northern point of view. > > Also, last weekend my partner Mary was reading to me from "The Civil > War for Dummies" (yes, that books really exists), and it seems that > Lincoln made the war about slavery quite a bit after it started. It > didn't begin that way. > > As always, people in power use others' issues -- regardless of how > dreadful those issues are and nevermind that they should have been > addressed and remedied forever ago -- to further their own cause. It > has nothing to do with helping anyone but themselves. > > If ending slavery and treating blacks really HAD been the issue, then > why did "equal rights" take so long to achieve? For that matter, why > are blacks in the U.S., in so many cases, still being treated like > shit? > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:15:28 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc My grandmother taught grade school in Little Rock most all her life, Laura. Her name is Anita Williams...maybe your Mom has heard of her. My uncle is a pediatrician and a close friend of Bill's. He was Hillary Clinton's obstetrician before she had Chelsea. He was also one of the "Little Rock Nine." Boy, we have a lot in common, Laura. But, I still loathe that song. :-) On the other hand, I like you very much and appreciate you having this little dialogue with me. It's especially gratifying for me since it's Black History Month here in the U.S. Thank you for reminding me that, as ever, all we need is love. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:02:49 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? njc Julius wrote: My grandmother taught grade school in Little Rock most all her life, Laura. Her name is Anita Williams...maybe your Mom has heard of her. My uncle is a pediatrician and a close friend of Bill's. He was Hillary Clinton's obstetrician before she had Chelsea. He was also one of the "Little Rock Nine." Boy, we have a lot in common, Laura. But, I still loathe that song. :-) On the other hand, I like you very much and appreciate you having this little dialogue with me. It's especially gratifying for me since it's Black History Month here in the U.S. Thank you for reminding me that, as ever, all we need is love. Hi Julius, My mother might have known your mother... that would be way cool! My mother passed on about 6 years ago or I'd ask her. Maybe you could ask your mother if she knew mine... Elaine Davidson. Her best school teacher friend was Mary Jones who lived in Little Rock, on Schiller I think. Mom taught in North Little Rock though. Maybe I've met your uncle since I'm in medicine too and a friend of Bill's... or... wait...which Bill? Bill W. or Bill C? LOL I might have my Bill's mixed up. Well, I suppose I'm a friend of both! Your uncle must have been at Central High about 13 years ago when the Ernest Green Story was first viewed there. I was there too! It's okay with me that you don't like the song Julius. I understand and respect your opinion. I like you too Julius and have been enjoying this dialogue. I enjoy Black History and am glad we celebrate it. We really do it right in LR you know! Everybody gets Martin Luther King, Jr. Day off, and we have a parade and other celebrations around the city. My family and I had a birthday party for Dr. King on his day. We put sayings of his up all over our kitchen and streamers and a picture of him on our table. And, my sons have a book about him we read. Yes, all we need is love and with that comes peace. Yours, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:51:17 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Starbuck's CD Pretty good selection of songs, I'd say. More than just Big Yellow Circle Game, but the oddball choices, like Strange Boy and Boogie Man, are still accessible to the unwashed masses. I assume the liner notes indicate which celebrity chose which song? At 01:27 PM 2/17/2005, you wrote: >A Case of You >Free Man in Paris >Coyote >Blue >Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire >For The Roses >Raised on Robbery >A Strange Boy >God Must Be A Boogie Man >Two Grey Rooms (great choice!) >Both Sides Now (orch version) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:58:04 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Starbuck's CD oh yes, the usual suspects like Crosby, Dylan, etc., but my favorite was including Two Grey Rooms, truly Joni's most unusual, brilliant, haunting song...Im blanking now as to whose favorite it is, long day! lol ... Prince or Chaka Kahn? hmmm... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:01:23 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: Joni in Macleans http://www.macleans.ca/ go to macleans main page and click on Books and CDs . There, you will find the Macleans Leaders and Dreamers special edition magazine which I wrote about last week. There is an article with some Joni content, as well as a great b&w photo. I see that Macleans is selling it for about 9 dollars Canadian. Check it out if you are interested. Mags np: Who Is He (and what is he to you) ... sweet baby Bill Withers ;-) The all-new My Yahoo!  What will yours do? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:11:54 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: more on macleans http://www.macleans.ca/ if you type in joni mitchell in their search window, there's quite a few articles and bits on Joni. enjoy. Mags np: Memories Are That Way... BW. Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni in Macleans njc - --- mags wrote: > np: Who Is He And what popped into my mind is the thing I learned so many years ago in Hebrew school: who is he he is she and me is who I guess you had to be there, but some things make indelible imprints on the minds of the young. hmmm, maybe that explains it ;-) brian in suddenly snowy south jersey after two 60F days in a row, dammit ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:16:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: another canadian s/s jumps ship -- njc --- Doug wrote: > Keep her. Please > > Doug AMEN! Boo! Hiss! Traitor! > Smurf wrote: > > >Whether it's our own special brand of racism, road > rage or freedom fries, I guess the US is where > Canadian singer/songwriters want to be. This is from > Yahoo News: > > > >Alanis Morissette Becomes U.S. Citizen > > > >Thu Feb 17, 7:43 AM ET > > > > > >LOS ANGELES - Canadian Alanis Morissette (news) is > now an American citizen. > >The 30-year-old singer was among some 4,500 people > who took the citizenship oath during a ceremony last > week at the Los Angeles Convention Center. > Morissette isn't turning her back on Canada  she's > maintaining dual citizenship. > > > >"I will never renounce my Canadian citizenship," > Morissette said in a statement Wednesday. "I > consider myself a Canadian-American. > > > >"There was a turning point during the ceremony > where I felt connected to this country in a way that > I didn't quite expect," she said. "America has been > really great to me and I have felt welcomed since > the day I came here." > > > >Morissette's songs include "Ironic" and "You Oughta > Know." > > > >___ > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:30:50 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Southern rock and The South I agree completely about Led Zeppelin and Mavis Staples, but I don't agree about the Southern rock tribute. I thought it was a great f*cking trip down memory lane. If you were in high school in the late 70's in the South, Southern rock was everywhere. The only classic Southern rock LP I ever owned was the one by Elvin Bishop with 'Fooled Around,' and I was definitely weary of the politics of some of these "good ol' boys," especially Skynard and Charlie Daniels. My high school senior prom ended with the long, 12" version of Freebird, and one of my first big concert festivals was a Southern rock thing my cousin took me too, and it was fantastic - Lacy J. Dalton, Ozark Mountain Daredevils, Doug Kershaw, Elvin Bishop, Allman Brothers, Maria Muldaur, The Charlie Daniels Band (the headliners back then, believe it or not), Hank Williams, Jr, the hottest rising star at the time, and lots of Cajun bands (not to mention alligator po boys, boudain and Dixie beer!). It was in a civic center in Lake Charles, LA. That music is part of my past, for better or worse. I am a Southerner, for better or worse, and while I've traveled all over the world and lived all over America, I do love the sleepy crawl of the American South like no other place on earth. That music (and country music) reminds me of some terrible things like the flaunting of the confederate flag and the riots during integration, but it also reminds of a lot of beautiful things like my grandparents, shrimping in the gulf and weekend party trips to Lake Charles and New Orleans or beach trips to Biloxi. And maybe it's not wise to try to forget the bad memories too soon. I don't think you should be ashamed of where you are from, nor should you hate the unchosen birthplace of another man. Part of the trip down memory lane is making note of who we were then and how far we have come in 35 years. There was a lot to hate about growing up in a small Southern town but lots to love too. I've always felt a kinship with the spirit of Mary Chapin-Carpenter's "I Am A Town" - a bittersweet sense of love, resignation and hope. David NP Mary Chapin-Carpenter, I Feel Lucky (too serious, got to cheer up now) >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlamadoo@fuse.net] >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:17 PM >>>To: joni@smoe.org >>>Cc: jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com >>>Subject: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? >>> >>> >>>What's up with giving Mavis Staples only 20 seconds on the >>>occasion of her >>>family's Lifetime Achievement? All they had to do was give the Staple >>>Singers a 60 second presentation about Pops Staples' contribution to the >>>Civil Rights Movement. Ya know: "Pops helped to open the door with a >>>non-violent message." That would have sent a quick message of diversity, >>>dignity and non-violence to the US in general (and the >>>gansta-rap segment of >>>CD buyers in particular). The recording industry would have looked a bit >>>more sophisticated and smart too, for a change! >>> >>>They found time to educate us about copyrights (which I >>>absolutely support >>>of course) but a platinum-coated, once-in-a-decade, opportunity was lost. >>> >>>I'd rather not hear them mention Tim McGraw every 15 minutes for >>>3 hours, ya >>>know? Is he the only country artist now? How exactly do you buy those >>>product placements? >>> >>>And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led >>>Zeppelin were >>>recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in >>>the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they >>>were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! >>> >>>I'm just saying... >>>Lama >>> >>> >>>>I thought two were phenomenal - Alicia Keyes and Jamie Fox (They >>>should do an album together)- and that Southern Rock salute with Skynard, >>>Allman Brothers, Keith Urban, Elvin Bishop, etc. . . . That was f*****g >>>incredible, especially for a Louisiana boy who grew up in the 70's!! >>>AMAZING, the whole group!!> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Southern rock and The South now Lake Charles njc --- David Henderson wrote: > It was in a civic center in Lake Charles, > LA. > > That music is part of my past, for better or worse. > I am a Southerner, for > better or worse, and while I've traveled all over > the world and lived all > over America, I do love the sleepy crawl of the > American South like no other > place on earth. That music (and country music) > reminds me of some terrible > things like the flaunting of the confederate flag > and the riots during > integration, but it also reminds of a lot of > beautiful things like my > grandparents, shrimping in the gulf and weekend > party trips to Lake Charles > and New Orleans or beach trips to Biloxi. And maybe > it's not wise to try to > forget the bad memories too soon. > > I don't think you should be ashamed of where you are > from, nor should you > hate the unchosen birthplace of another man. > Lake Charles - --Lucinda Williams He had a reason to get back to Lake Charles He used to talk about it He'd just go on and on He always said Louisiana Was where he felt at home He was born in Nacogdoches That's in East Texas Not far from the border But he liked to tell everybody He was from Lake Charles Did an angel whisper in your ear And hold you close and take away your fear In those long last moments We used to drive Thru Lafayette and Baton Rouge In a yellow Camino Listening to Howling Wolf He liked to stop in Lake Charles Cause that's the place that he loved Did you run about as far as you could go Down the Louisiana highway Across Lake Ponchatrain Now your soul is in Lake Charles No matter what they say Did an angel whisper in your ear And hold you close and take away your fear In those long last moments SOLO He had a reason to get back to Lake Charles He used to talk about it He'd just go on and on He always said Louisiana Was where he felt at home Did an angel whisper in your ear And hold you close and take away your fear In those long last moments Did an angel whisper in your ear And hold you close and take away your fear In those long last moments ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:51:59 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > > Jerry, I'm afraid I must disagree with that > statement. > > Toronto was called "Toronto the Good" for a long > time, > > But still much more liberal than anyplace in NY, > outside of Manhattan. I > used to go to Yorkville in the 60's because it was > so openly gay. And you > could buy dope on the streets openly anywhere. And > the live sex shows were > on every corner bar. I don't know which Protestants > were running those in > Toronto, but let me know what sect that was. Maybe > the suburbs, like > Mississauga were conservative, but I didn't find the > city to be. > > Jerry Maybe it wasn't quite as uptight as all that by the mid-60s. I do know that my family would probably have arrived in Toronto a bit sooner than we did, but for the fact that my Dad was Catholic, and his company told him that, as a Catholic, he wouldn't be very well accepted in business in Toronto. Our family moved away from Montreal to a town called Pembroke in 1955 or 1956 when my Dad got a new job there; in 1965, I guess it was OK for him to be promoted and moved to Toronto. There were already tons of Catholics in Toronto, between the Irish and the Italians and a whole bunch more, but it was still considered OK to allow only WASPs into certain clubs. I never made it to Yorkville until after the fun was all over. (Dad *forbade* us to go and, like Joni, I didn't want to do anything to offend the parents. If I had gone, I sure as hell wouldn't have told them where I'd been!) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: FW: Comment from JMDL site --- Les Irvin wrote: > Since the redesign of the JMDL, a lot of comments > are coming through the > site. Thought I'd continue to pass some of them > along. Be sure to copy > Paul's email on any responses. > Les > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul byrd9999@yahoo.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:10 AM > > i'm looking for interpretation/discussion on Harry's > House/Centrepiece, but > you only seem to have feedback on a few songs. Can > you help? I would like to invite Paul to join us on the discussion list because if we all start talking about this and he's not here, he's going to miss out on the good stuff. I do recall there being several good discussions about this that would be in the smoe archives somewhere. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:41:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview >My closest cousin went to Puerto Rico in 1967 for 5 months with her mother. They came back with an "adopted" baby. My aunt raised her as her own. My cousin went on to medical school and became one of New York's outstanding OB/GYNs, eventually marrying her daughter's father, who became a successful attorney after law school, and had another daughter. There were choices to be made, even back then.< That is an incredible story jerry... I agree that every move we make is a choice... we are never victims in reality but often in our own minds we are... and when we are young we don't always know that we have choices... it is so easy for someone to judge another's decisions but unless as the saying goes, you have walked a mile in someone's shoes, it would be unwise to do so... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:44:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: symbols njc >such a shame the swastika has come to be recognized as a symbol for peace when it was and still is a Hindu symbol meaning the opposite.< I think they (nazi's) turned the direction on the swastika & that you are right, it was originally is an ancient symbol for life... but was turned into the opposite direction metaphorically & in reality ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:13:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The South njc >I finally (after having argued it the other way) have come to accept that the Conf flag means hate and scariness to too many people for me to defend it any more. Their perception is what ended up being important.< the key to life imo... & seems to be my theme for the day... walking in someone elses moccasins... understanding someone else's perceptions... empathy... if we could manage that we would not be fighting wars with people whose culture we don't understand... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:54:06 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Artist's Choice:Joni Mitchell AND songs chosen by her friends & fellow musicians This is a fun set of releases. As is often the case for Joni's , I found myself in an awkward location on the release date. This time: Willows, CA. Don't ask, but isn't it WONDERFUL that there's a Starbuck's Coffee almost EVERYWHERE? I think they had actually sold a set BEFORE I got there! That bodes well. An accompanying co-worker bought Artist's choice, too. It's always great to be introduced to music through Joni, whether through her covers or through her interview references. And such a great story about Myrtle and Joni's copy of "Saturday Night Fish Fry" is included here! Myrtle Anderson presaged Martha Stewart by 40 years! Myrtle is the mother of invention. I had to crack a smile when I saw that Joni had included a version of Clair de Lune performed by Philippe Entremont. With all the recordings of this piece, it's a surprise that she chose one by a relatively obscure pianist, at least in today's digital marketplace. My mother-in-law had asked me to make a CD copy of his recording of mid- 1950s era performance of "Pictures at an Exhibition." Her LP copy was so badly worn that I couldn't fulfill the request until I found what was probably the last vinyl copy available for sale in New York City. I even exhausted eBay and amazon. The clerks at Tower Classical sniffed at his catalogue, even. Very little is available in digital formats from his 1950s recordings, but Joni seemed to find a lovely master here. I'd always wondered who her favorite classical pianist was. I'd long thought it was Arthur Rubenstein, but perhaps now I have my answer. I think my mother-in-law will get a kick out of this. But I had to laugh out loud when I read that she discovered Etta James' "At Last" from its use in broadcast advertising. Proof again that the 30 second network TV commercial is probably the closest thing we have to AM music radio in the 21st century. Sometimes we even get it right. I can understand why Neil Young and Tom Waits never go there, but sometimes wish they did. Speaking of AM music radio: isn't that what the New Radicals track makes us pine for? Interesting that "Harlem In Havana" follows Duke Ellington's track "Jeep's Blues." Would "Night Train" have been too obvious? The rest of her choices are fine (and some more obscure) choices from the work of famous artists, Deep Forest and New Radicals not withstanding. Her Friends choices of Her work, is a whole other concoction. There are many loving choices, like Nash's, Crosby's and Seal's. I think Elvis Costello couldn't get his first choice approved (by who, you ask?) so he mentioned it in his comments. Regarding the track attributed to him: (FTR) I think the Rhino/Hear Music people who added some background notes don't have a clue what this song is about, or chose to ignore it in printing some gobbledegook that means nothing. Why they felt they had to contextualize ANY of these songs is beyond me. That they presumed they had the knowledge to do so is incredibly arrogant. There may be some back scratching here, paralleling the two releases, with Fagan and Becker of Steely Dan EACH getting a track choice ("thanks for the Gaucho master, guys"). I'll say this for Robbie Robertson, allowed TWO choices here: if I interpret his comments here, he's no gentleman. Don't interrupt the sorrow, Robbie. Oh yeah, Bob. Nice that you woke up from your snoring sleep to listen to that record. Good Rip Van Winkle impersonation. Thanks for taming the tiger 31 years too late. Better late than never. CC ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #78 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)