From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #67 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, February 12 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 067 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: Big Brother is coming, njc [Garret ] For All You Rufus Haters njc [Garret ] Re: Sharing Top 50 songs, njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Dylan book, just some thoughts NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Cher aging gracefully NJC ["David Henderson" ] Mr. Spock NJC ["David Henderson" ] Sherelle's list NJC ["David Henderson" ] NJC re: Big Brother is coming, njc [Bob Muller ] NJC Re: Dylan book, just some thoughts NJC [Bob Muller ] Joni video on Yahoo Search [Bob Muller ] Re: joni on demonoid [Catherine McKay ] Re: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains [Catherine McKay ] Smurf's list ["David Henderson" ] A love story, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains ["David Henderson" ] Arthur Miller NJC ["David Henderson" ] ice cream castles in the air [mags h ] Re: Sharing Top 50 songs, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: TOP 50 NJC ["David Henderson" ] RE: TOP 50 NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: joni on demonoid [tantra_apso ] RE: Carly Torch NJC ["David Henderson" ] Dory Previn NJC ["David Henderson" ] Re: Carly Torch NJC [tantra_apso ] Re: TOP 50 NJC Melanie [Catherine McKay ] RE: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains [Catherine McKay ] Re: Carly Torch NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Cher aging gracefully NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC Speaking of Dylan, long ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: NJC re: Big Brother is coming, njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] State of the List NJC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:10:03 +0000 From: Garret Subject: re: Big Brother is coming, njc Wow, this is somewhere between hilarious and very scary! Thanks for posting. Synchronicity here: Yesterday i finished reading Nineteen Eighty Four (i think my heart is broke), and had just read Brave New World and We. My dystopian sensibilities are in full swing at the moment. GARRET NP - Gay Dad, Oh Jim From: "Laurent Olszer" Scary shit: Turn your speakers on http://www.aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf Laurent - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:20:17 +0000 From: Garret Subject: For All You Rufus Haters njc Rufus Wainwright's newest release, Want Two, was reviewed on BBC Newsnight Review lastnight. It was quite interesting to hear one of the panelists describe this album, and his music generally, as being like a difficult book. That is to say, it didn't throw itself at her at first but she stuck with it and eventually realised that she really liked it. She found some great narrative running throughout the album and many loveable characters in the songs (who does this remind you of?). She said it was the DVD that came with Want Two that made the difference for her. She suddenly saw Rufus running around playing many instruments, camping things up and laughing. One of the other reviewers pointed out that this one, the "feminine" side of teh Want project, does not really stand up to Want One. he made an interesting statement along the lines of "the music is clever, well made, but i never like it as much as i should". he said that Rufus is very witty but takes his humour quite seriously, unlike someone like the Divine Comedy who really play on the humour, and so can come across almost preachy. And the third panelist said that Rufus Wainwright's songs are usually very good but listening to an album (and his voice on that album specifically|) is sort of like being force fed chocolate cake. Each slice is actually good but after the second it's very difficult to go on - you just want rufus to back off a little and relax. For the record i am a Rufus fan, but i can appreciate these sentiments. I am looking forward to Want Two. GARRET NP- Patti Smith, Land (live) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:43:56 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Sharing Top 50 songs, njc >>I have a suggestion about sharing our Top 50: one on one trading with listers, but selecting 1 full cd. This enables us to only get the titles that we don't already know. If anybody is interested please get in touch with me. Laurent<< I have a suggestion too. How about all the people who are going to JoniFrance take a CD-R with their top 50 songs in mp3 format. Then one of the techie folk who has brought her/his laptop with a cd burner can jack it in and we can all go home with gazillions of new songs. What say you, good people? mike in barcelona PS - what is the power supply for laptops coming from Spain or the UK/US? Do we need adapters or anything similar? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:56:54 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Dylan book, just some thoughts NJC >>I guess in his Woody G. years before he was writing songs himself, the guy new like half a zillion folk songs.<< Talking of Woody, I just bought 'Mermaid Avenue' by Billy Bragg and Wilco. For those of you who don't know it, Woody Guthrie, when he died, left more than a thousand songs (lyrics only) and in the spring of 1995 his daughter Nora asked Billy Bragg to write music to some of these songs. The Mermaid Avenue CD features BB, some members of Wilko, and other musicians including Corey Harris, Natalie Merchant and Eliza Carthy (daughter of Martin Carthy?). Has anyone else bought/heard this? Is the second volume as good as the first? mike in barcelona np - paco de lucia - entre dos aguas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:15:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: joni on demonoid Ther are now quite a few Joni works on Demonoid, inc the Hissing demos, fret series, the gene autry theatre stuff and more. Nothing to do with me, just saw them there and thought you might be interested. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:22:36 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Cher aging gracefully NJC >I always thought she should have done more of this type of material, particularly after Carly Simon >did 'Torch' and Linda Ronstadt did her Nelson Riddle recordings and made doing standards albums >trendy for awhile. It would be nice to see Cher do this type of music now. It would be a way for >her to age a little more gracefully and still have a singing career. But Cher being Cher, I don't >think that's likely to happen. And part of me wants to say 'You go, girl!' to that. >Mark E. in Seattle Oh Mark, and I was just becoming so fond of you - "It would be a way for Cher to age a little more gracefully" . . . What? I think Cher is the coolest, most down to earth singer on the planet (other than Joni of course), and she is aging with a beautifully-adjusted, kick-ass, eye-to-the-future attitude that is lacking in so many her age (and even many much younger). IMHO Most rock/pop singers, when they record "the standards album," that's the end. They are wallowing in the past, singing music they were never meant to sing, complaining that the music world is not what it used to be, blah blah blah, one foot in the grave. And not so much fun to be around and definitely not "aging gracefully." I know I'm in a much happier place because Cher recorded Not Enough Love in the World and Believe and The Music's No Good Without You than if she had added to the endless versions of Over the Rainbow and Someone to Watch Over Me. And while I'm ranting, would could be better than Cher being Cher? I think others should try it! Sorry, my humble opinion is so damned loud sometimes! ;) David NP Nothing, you infected my brain with that horrible screeching that Carly Simon does on torch . . . poor Carly, she has all of the soul of Laura Bush. Oh yeah, I was going to stop . . . sorry . . . bye . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:26:57 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Mr. Spock NJC JERRY WROTE: >Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:14:33 -0500 >From: Jerry Notaro >Subject: Spock Sings - NJC >Now don9t all jump at once. New to Ebay: >LEONARD NIMOY PRESENTS MR. SPOCK'S MUSIC FROM OUTER SPACE - EASY LISTENING - >NEW - CD >THEME FROM 'STAR TREK' / ALIEN / WHERE IS LOVE? / MUSIC TO WATCH SPACE GIRLS >BY / BEYOND ANTARES / TWINKLE, TWINKLE LITTLE EARTH / MISSION IMPOSSIBLE / >LOST IN THE STARS / WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE / YOU ARE NOT ALONE / A >VISIT TO A SAD PLANET / HIGHLY ILLOGICAL / THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US / ONCE >I SMILED / SPOCK THOUGHTS / BY MYSELF / FOLLOW YOUR STAR / AMPHIBIOUS >ASSAULT >THIS IS A NEW, STILL-SEALED CD. THE DISC, CASE AND INSERTS ARE IN EXCELLENT >CONDITION. Are you telling me that Mr. Spock recorded Where Is Love from Oliver? Some things in life are just so incredible that they are unbelievable. I must hear this CD! David NP Jamie Cullum, The Wind Cries Mary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:35:41 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Sherelle's list NJC SHERELLE WROTE: Being a military brat, here is a compilation of my top 50 songs from all the years of influence and travel: 1. Harbor of Each Others Arms-Beth Nielson-Chapman (?) 2. Amelia (S&L version) Joni Mitchell 3. Crystal Blue Persuasion-Tommy James & The Shondells 4. Montego Bay-Artist? 5. Our Day Will Come-Ruby & the Romantics 6. Penny Lane-Beatles 7. Till the End of the Day-Kinks 8. Start me Up-Rolling Stones 9. Look Up From Your Life-James Taylor 10. Canaan-Carol King One of absolute favorite albums ever is Carole King's Rhymes and Reasons, and Been to Canaan is one of the best. Some people blame this album for her "downfall" but I think it's an incredible journey . . . almost a story . . . Come Down Easy, Feeling Sad Tonight, Ferguson Road . . . carthartic to me. You picked to of my guilty pleasures on your list: Bread and America. I listen to Bread's Greatest and America's Horse With No Name at work all of the time . . . the world once seemed to blissful and sweet . . . all I really cared about was f*****g The Guitar Man, then smoking some weed while riding my horse . . . what was his name again? David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:37:34 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC re: Big Brother is coming, njc Garret wrote: I for one would place it more on the scary side, because it's very close to the truth. My son's (Nathan) best childhood friend, Jeff, started college this last fall along with Nate. Anyway, Jeff's parents had given him too much independence too soon, and he didn't fare well and apply himself his first semester. Nate told me that Jeff told him he had flunked out. Anyway, thanks to The Patriot Act and/or No Child Left Behind (what ironic names), the military recruiters were able to identify him as a failing college student and honed in and make him some offers; big college scholarships, job training, etc. Jeff took the bait, signed the line, and dropped by at Christmas to tell us he was reporting for basic training December 28. I don't know that he's in Iraq yet but will certainly end up there. Just hope he doesn't come back wrapped in a flag. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Chemistry Class" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:42:07 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Dylan book, just some thoughts NJC mike pritchard wrote: Well, I can field the first question...I bought the first one and like it a lot, being a fan of both Billy Bragg and Wilco. I also have an EP that's got a couple of live tracks and studio stuff. Opted out of the second volume but the reviews were pretty much along the lines of "if you like #1 you'll like #2". I thought it was a great idea, especially given Woody Guthrie's place in the historical pantheon of music, and Bragg/Wilco was a brilliant choice to give these words new life. Bob NP: REM, "Can't Get There From Here" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:24:36 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Carly Torch NJC >Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:43:53 -0800 >From: "Mark or Travis" >Subject: Re: Addenda to my "50" (njc) >Justalittlebreen@aol.com wrote: > Hi gang, > > I just got off Amazon, where I ordered Carly's Torch album -- and > found out the answer to my question -- the first cut is called (The) > Blue of Blue. Love that song. Was also reminded that Carly does > an excellent version of "Not a Day Goes By", which I listed under > Bernadette Peters (and I'm sure there are many onther fabulous > versions -- perhaps one of my fellow queens could help me out here > --- which musical is that from (i.e., Not a Day...), and who did it > first? > >Not sure who did it first but it's from a Stephen Sondheim musical called 'Merrily We Roll Along'. >You can read about it here: >http://www.sondheim.com/shows/merrily_we_roll_along/ >I don't know Bernadette's version but Carly's really rips my face off, as Em would say ;-) >Mark E. I think Not A Day Goes By is one of the most beautiful songs ever written, so bittersweet in a way that only Sondheim could write. I love the original from 'Merrily' and Elaine Page recorded a powerhouse version. Roberta Flack did a quiet, achingly beautiful version at BB King's a few years ago. I wish she would record it. But the best version is Bernadette Peter's live recording, just amazing. It's on a couple of different Sondheim collections. It will break your heart. But I think Carly Simon's version is horrific. There's nothing organic about it . . . she sings it like singing loud is the best way to interpret what? something . . . desperation . . . that's not what the song is about. She ruins I'm Hurt the same way. Anybody ever heard the live Etta James version . . . now that's what it's supposed to sound like, real pain, not vocal pain. Anyway, my two cents. BTW, I love Carly Simon's original work. Legend In Your Own Time, Share the End, The Carter Family and Libby are just a few of the real jewels she has created. I just think Torch is a perfect example of a singer with no standards experience and no interpretive skills for a song without a literal "story" and well, I'll shut up now. I promise my next post will be as positive as sunshine! David NP Jamie Cullum, twentysomething PS Can you believe someone put Dancin' Clown on their Top 50? What's next? Paprika Plains? You've Changed? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:39:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Joni video on Yahoo Search Hey all, and Happy Saturday!! Yahoo is Beta-testing their newest search feature - video! I just typed in "Joni Mitchell" and got 23 hits. Bob NP: Joni, "Raised On Robbery" (from Shadows & Light video) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:43:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni on demonoid --- colin wrote: > Ther are now quite a few Joni works on Demonoid, inc > the Hissing demos, > fret series, the gene autry theatre stuff and more. > Nothing to do with me, just saw them there and > thought you might be > interested. > > Colin, what is Demonoid? Is it a website? Are they selling these things (grrr)? Is it a file-sharing site? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:49:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains --- David Henderson wrote: > PS Can you believe someone put Dancin' Clown on > their Top 50? What's next? > Paprika Plains? You've Changed? > You don't like Paprika Plains? Many of us do. Would it end up on my Top 50? I have no idea, as I have neither the interest nor the inclination to create any list. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:57:40 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: TOP 50 NJC Wow, Julius, you have an unusually good list in my opinion. MELANIE! I didn't know if anyone besides me even remembered her. I just loved her when I was a boy . . . The Good Book, Leftover Wine, Candles in the Rain, Together Alone . . . I thought she was just the coolest earth mother type, and I wanted her to be my mother. Yes, I use to fantasize that I was her son! (Mental illness starts early in my family.) My real mother HATED her; she thought Melanie was the most horrible, screeching thing on earth. Maybe she wasn't my real mother after all . . . Simple, sweet Melanie wrote some of the best words - words I have not forgotten for 25 years - about what love between two people means, in the most basic way: "We'll grow old, We'll take care of each other, I'll be sister, mother and lover, We'll be friends, I don't want to make it on my own, Let's be together, alone." I still get a tingling in my spine when I sing those words, "I don't want to make it on my own." It reminds me that I don't just love the people I love, but that I need them. I need them, for me to be me. David NP Oh, and listen what's playing, Blame It On My Youth by Jamie Cullum From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Top 50 songs (NJC) Now me: 1. Stevie Wonder- "Living For the City" 2. Marvin Gaye - "Ecology" 3. Joni Mitchell - "Coyote" 4. Grover Washington - "Mister Magic" 5. Melanie - "Candles in the Rain" 6. Lulu - "To Sir With Love": 7. Jimi Hendrix- "Wind Cries Mary" 8. Rolling Stones - "Satisfaction" 9. Queen - "Bohemian Rhapsody" 10. Pure Prairie League - "Aimee" 11. Claudia San Souie - "Conversation" 12. Kate Bennett - "Irene" 13. Jack Nielsen - "Shine On Our Love" 14. Wyclef Jean - "A Million Voices" 15. Jackson Brown - "The Pretender" 16. Cat Stevens - "Moonshadow" 17. Chris Issac - "San Francisco Days" 18. Donny Hathaway - "For All We Know" 19. Dave Matthews - "Satellite" 20. Bob Dylan - "Lay Lady Lay" 21. Bill Withers - "Use Me Up" 22. Billie Holiday - "Come Rain or Come Shine" 23. Aretha Franklin - "Mary (Don't You Weep)" 24. Patsy Cline - "Crazy" 25. John Lennon - "Woman Is the Nigger of the World" 26. Joshua Redman - "I Had a King" 27. Jim Croce - "Operator" 28. Jimmy Cliff - "Sitting Here In Limbo" 29. Bonnie Raitt - "What Is Success?" 30. Carpenters - "Goodbye to Love" 31. English Beat - "Soul Salvation" 32. Cowboy Junkies - "Sweet Jane" 33. CSN - "Wasted On the Way" 34. Curtis Mayfield - "Freddies Dead" 35. David Bowie - "Young American" 36. Diana Krall - "Devil May Care" 37. Dire Straits - "Romeo and Juliet" 38. Eric Clapton - "Wonderful Tonight" 39. Everything But the Girl - "Tougher Than the REst" 40. Sade - "By Your Side" 41. Seal - "Kiss From A Rose" 42. Stevie Nicks - "White Winged Dove" 43. Manfred Mann - "By the Waters of Babylon" 44. Stevie Ray Vaughn - "Little Wing" 45. Sting - "I'm So Happy (I Can't Stop Crying)" 46. Terri Hendrix - "Goodtimes Van" 47. Tom Petty - "American Girl" 48. Toni Childs - "Walk and Talk Like Angels" 49. Townes Van Zandt - "If I Needed You" 50. Clash - "Rock the Casbah" Whew! - - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:07:17 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Smurf's list You are such a hoot, Mr. Smurf! I think you should consider producing an album to benefit Alcoholics Anonymous, or would these songs have the opposite effect? I know most people will disagree, but I love Judy Garland's live Over the Rainbow from the Carnegie Hall concert. It's so heartbreaking, yet still somehow hopeful and beautiful. To me, it sort of sums up that monstrously gorgeous life. David >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:10:55 -0800 (PST) >From: Smurf >Subject: Top 50 -- How do you do it? -- njc >I am enjoying reading these, but I really don't know how you people do it. I think I have some kind of >attention disorder that makes it impossible for me to even attempt this exercise. >For example, my current favorite song is "Lilac Wine" by Jeff Buckley. I can't stop listening to it. But then >I think, would this song stand the test of time for me? Does it deserve to be a top-50 song when I've only >known it for a few weeks? >Then "Lilac Wine" makes me think of other songs about wine or alcohol or even substance abuse, such as "Summer >Wine" by Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazelwood, which could be a candidate for my top 50. >Or Cole Porter's "I Get a Kick Out of You" by Ethel Merman. >Or "Alcohol" by the Kinks. >Or "One More for My Baby" by Frank Sinatra. >Or "Sunday Morning Coming Down" by Kris Kristopherson. >Or even "Sister Morphine" by the Stones. >Then, of course, there's "A Case of You" and "Twisted." >It just goes on and on. And I don't even drink alcohol anymore. >Anyway, I am enjoying your lists. I think that it's interesting, for example, that so many people have chosen >"Somewhere Over the Rainbow" as a favorite. I like that song too, but then I think: whose version? Israel >>>Kamakawiwo'ole's? Eva Cassidy's? Judy Garland's? If so, which one? The original from "Wizard of Oz" or a later >one? >Se what I mean? >Ai-yi-yi-yi-yi, >- --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:10:46 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: A love story, njc Hi Ya'll, I got the most surprising phone call yesterday! It was from a lady I hardly know who runs a trophy shop. Close to a year ago I went in there to get a plaque made, and her little chihuahua was running around in the store and reminded me of our own chihuahua, Charlie, in disposition. I got bold and asked if perhaps she would consider breeding her's and ours, and she said maybe so. I quickly went to get Charlie so he could meet the sweet little bitch although she wasn't in heat at the time. Weeks went by and I got a call that the little girl doggie was in heat and would I bring Charlie over? In the meantime, I had taken Charlie to vet and found out he was probably sterile so I hesitated to tell her "yes." To make a long story short, she called yesterday to say, "we have puppies!" I didn't even know Charlie had succeeded in getting her pregnant because the trophy lady didn't call to tell me. What a surprise! PUPPIES!!! Three little puppies, two black and white and one brown like our Charlie. I haven't seen them yet but will this week. We are so excited!!! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:17:03 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains No offense intended, but no, I have never liked Paprika Plains. The lyrics are okay (but not her best imho), but the music and especially the arrangement/instrumentation have always sounded . . . I don't know, shrill, amateurish and like fingernails on a blackboard. The orchestration sounds like 70's muzak to me . . . Oddly enough, DJRD is my second favorite album after THOSL . . . I love it! And the song Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is definitely in my top three or four of Joni's song. It's my favorite crank up the volume to ear-piercing power while driving 80 miles an hour road song. To each his own, right? Best, David >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] >>>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:49 AM >>>To: David Henderson; Joni Mitchell List >>>Subject: Re: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains >>> >>> >>> --- David Henderson wrote: >>>> PS Can you believe someone put Dancin' Clown on >>>> their Top 50? What's next? >>>> Paprika Plains? You've Changed? >>>> >>> >>>You don't like Paprika Plains? Many of us do. Would it >>>end up on my Top 50? I have no idea, as I have neither >>>the interest nor the inclination to create any list. >>> >>> >>>===== >>>Catherine >>>Toronto >>>----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>-------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>______________________________________________________________________ >>>Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:27:13 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Arthur Miller NJC I think you're right. Arthur Miller's death is the end of an era (although he was writing right up to near the end). He just had something new with Linda Lavin in Chicago this year. What an artist! In the last few years, I saw Death of a Saleman with Brian Dennehy and finally got it . . . maybe I was too young the first couple of times, and The Crucible, season before last, with Laura Linney and I forget . . . the Irish actor, that was really excellent. Miller really knew how to bring politics and social issues into traditional settings where the audience could really relate and understand and not feel preached to. He was a master. David NP Magnolia soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:46:42 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Arthur Miller NJC MARK WROTE: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:32:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: njc - Arthur Miller Bob Muller wrote: > Arthur's plays (at least the ones I've seen which are the 2 Mark > mentioned plus 'All My Sons' are very heavy and rise and fall with > the strength of the cast. I've seen wonderful & dismal productions of > them) > > Bob There's something about 'Death of a Salesman' that tries my patience. I've never seen an actor in the role of Willy Lohman that has made it work for me. I saw part of the Dustin Hoffman performance on tv and I though he was very affected in the part. I'm not sure that was Dustin's fault. I have always gotten the feeling that Miller was trying too hard to portray the 'common man'. Some of the dialogue in the play just doesn't ring true for me. I saw a production of 'The Crucible' here in Seattle a few years ago that was excellent. I also liked the film that came out a few years ago even though I can't stand Winona Ryder. Daniel Day Lewis and Joan Allen were both excellent. The scene between the two of them after they have both been accused of witchcraft and Joan is supposed to persuade Daniel to admit his guilt is very powerful. Two people confronting what was wrong with their marriage but realizing how much they love one another and trying to come to terms each with their own conscience. Somebody on NPR named Miller the greatest American playwright. Personally I would give that honor to Eugene O'Neill. But nobody's asking me and O'Neill didn't just die. Mark E. in Seattle Hi Mark - I never got Death of a Salesman either really, even when I stage managed a production years ago, but when I saw it with Dennehy (who I thought was brilliant) a few years ago, it finally clicked for me. The AD on the Dennehy production told me that one of the important themes is about reaching that plateau, surviving or succumbing to regret. Most people when they are 40 or 45 or 50 reach a plateau when you realize you are never going to have a better career than the one you have, you are never going to have a better house, you are never going to be rich, you may never meet the love of your life, you will never be a great artist . . . you see the edge of hope and for many that is a moment of abject horror. You could have made myriad changes along the way that would have altered where you have ended up, but now that you are there, there's absolutely nothing that can be done. I don't see myself/my life that bleakly, but at 44, I do wrestle with and understand those feelings now. Personally, as much as I love Miller (other really good plays are Broken Glass, The Ride Down Mt. Morgan, All My Sons), I think the greatest American playwright is my favorite, Edward Albee, but it's all subjective of course. Did anyone see last year's revival of Long Day's Journey with Dennehy and Vanessa Redgrave? Pure magic . . . yes, O'Neill was a master too. In memory, David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:48:37 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: ice cream castles in the air "Ice cream castles in the air", another example of Joni's ability to paint with words. This is the very shape that clouds take out on the prairie, they hang there, suspended, grand and glorious, sculptures for certain. Smurfadelica...come on out and see for yourself! Just ask Evian, or Kate in Sask....they'll tell you this much is true ;-) Mags looking at those clouds, from both sides, now ;-) np: the prayer cycle, jonathan elias Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:59:56 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Sharing Top 50 songs, njc From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: RE: TOP 50 NJC Hello Jerry, You are so lucky. Does she still record? I haven't heard anything new by her in years and years. I remember a really good CD - a song about Oz, the cyclone, I think - but that was way back in the 1980's. I'm not surprised she has a gorgeous son. I always thought she was gorgeous. One of her really early albums had a big shot of her face on the cover with a yellow background . . . rosy cheeks and giant eyes, just like an earth mother goddess should have. I used to get SO MAD in junior high because my friends thought she was nothing but the singer of Brand New Key! I was a big Melanie defense attorney. ;) I remember wailing Leftover Wine in my room, the one from the live album, maybe in Carnegie Hall . . . I was quite the tortured 12-year-old! ;) David NP Aretha, The 70's Collection (house-cleaning time!) >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Jerry Notaro [mailto:gnotaro@tampabay.rr.com] >>>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:48 AM >>>To: David Henderson; jmdl >>>Subject: Re: TOP 50 NJC >>> >>> >>>Oh absolutely. Luckily she lives close to here in St. Petersburg >>>and used to >>>have a restaurant in Tarpon Springs so we have gotten to see her >>>perform and >>>meet her many times recently. I have met her (gorgeous) son and daughters >>>who tour with her and sing and play. I have most of her recent >>>cd's signed >>>by her as she always comes out after a concert to meet her fans. >>>She spends >>>a lot of time in Europe where she is wildly popular. Old Bitch Warrior is >>>how she describes herself. She still writes and performs, better >>>than ever. >>> >>>Jerry >>> >>>On 2/12/05 9:57 AM, "David Henderson" wrote: >>> >>>> Wow, Julius, you have an unusually good list in my opinion. MELANIE! I >>>> didn't know if anyone besides me even remembered her. I just >>>loved her when >>>> I was a boy . . . The Good Book, Leftover Wine, Candles in the Rain, >>>> Together Alone . . . I thought she was just the coolest earth >>>mother type, >>>> and I wanted her to be my mother. Yes, I use to fantasize >>>that I was her >>>> son! (Mental illness starts early in my family.) My real >>>mother HATED her; >>>> she thought Melanie was the most horrible, screeching thing on >>>earth. Maybe >>>> she wasn't my real mother after all . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:27:37 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: TOP 50 NJC I wonder if she has a fan club or website or something . . . ? Mama Mama is a great song. And Deep Down Low and her cover of Carolina In My Mind. I think she is a much underrated writer. Her songs were so simple, but that simplicity and honesty is what made her music stand-out. She always seemed to me like a great ray of sunlight - that warm, sunny 60's energy like CCR, Joan Baez and Peter, Paul & Mary. When I was a boy, for the longest time, I thought The Good Book started with "four little hairy kids out on their on" !!! LOL David >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Jerry Notaro [mailto:gnotaro@tampabay.rr.com] >>>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:17 AM >>>To: David Henderson; jmdl >>>Subject: Re: TOP 50 NJC >>> >>> >>>On 2/12/05 11:01 AM, "David Henderson" wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Jerry, >>>> >>>> You are so lucky. Does she still record? >>> >>>Very much so. Mostly on her own label and hawked by herself. One >>>was a live >>>at Borders cd that I have that was sold only at Borders. Just >>>last night at >>>dinner Melanie came up and most thought only of Brand New Key. >>>Too bad. She >>>was much more than that. I have been a big fan of hers since the >>>early 70's, >>>when my group sang and performed many of her songs, like Good Book, Mama >>>Mama, Lay Down, etc. >>> >>>Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:36:56 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: joni on demonoid Catherine McKay wrote: > --- colin wrote: > > >>Ther are now quite a few Joni works on Demonoid, inc >>the Hissing demos, >>fret series, the gene autry theatre stuff and more. >>Nothing to do with me, just saw them there and >>thought you might be >>interested. >> >> >> >> > >Colin, what is Demonoid? Is it a website? > yes. www.demonoid.com > Is it a file-sharing >site? > > yes - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:38:26 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: Carly Torch NJC Touche. This is probably my least favorite album of all time, and it really soured me on her. That's why I feel so strongly about it. -----Original Message----- From: tantra_apso [mailto:tantraapso@btopenworld.com] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:36 AM To: David Henderson Cc: Joni Mitchell List Subject: Re: Carly Torch NJC David Henderson wrote: I just think Torch is a perfect example of a singer with no standards experiencemmm. not so . her background is such songs. she sang them all her life, grew up with them and even knew some of the writers as family friends. and no interpretive skills for a songmany disagree with you. we can't all like the same thing and don't all hear alike either. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:42:12 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: Dory Previn NJC I just wanted to say that this post from Susan A websearch revealed the following link - I had no idea she had put out any new music... http://www.mabot.com/music/dory-previn/planetblue.html which I followed to... http://www.mabot.com/music/dory-previn/planetblue-links.html which led to this... http://doryprevin.chez.tiscali.fr/index.htm is very cool. There's even a whole CD from two years ago that you can download for free to catch up with Dory Previn. David NP, Aretha, Daydreaming ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:35:50 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Carly Torch NJC David Henderson wrote: > I just think Torch is a perfect example of a singer with no >standards experience > mmm. not so . her background is such songs. she sang them all her life, grew up with them and even knew some of the writers as family friends. > and no interpretive skills for a song > many disagree with you. we can't all like the same thing and don't all hear alike either. > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:53:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: TOP 50 NJC Melanie --- David Henderson wrote: > Wow, Julius, you have an unusually good list in my > opinion. MELANIE! I > didn't know if anyone besides me even remembered > her. I just loved her when > I was a boy . . . The Good Book, Leftover Wine, > Candles in the Rain, > Together Alone . . . I thought she was just the > coolest earth mother type, > and I wanted her to be my mother. Yes, I use to > fantasize that I was her > son! Melanie is still around. She's coming to Toronto in April or so. I'm thinking about going, but it depends on $$$. She struck me as the ultimate hippy chick. (That's a good thing.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:57:19 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Carly Torch now Paprika Plains --- David Henderson wrote: > No offense intended, but no, I have never liked > Paprika Plains. The lyrics > are okay (but not her best imho), but the music and > especially the > arrangement/instrumentation have always sounded . . > . I don't know, shrill, > amateurish and like fingernails on a blackboard. > The orchestration sounds > like 70's muzak to me . . . Oddly enough, DJRD is my > second favorite album > after THOSL . . . I love it! And the song Don Juan's > Reckless Daughter is > definitely in my top three or four of Joni's song. > It's my favorite crank > up the volume to ear-piercing power while driving 80 > miles an hour road > song. > > To each his own, right? > > Best, > David > No offense taken. There are times I'd rather edit out most of the orchestral part in the middle. You couldn't take it completely out, because there needs to be time for brooding before the last part (Joni and the listener need some time to float into dreams - but not that much!) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:01:22 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Carly Torch NJC David Henderson wrote: > Touche. This is probably my least favorite album of all time, and it > really soured me on her. That's why I feel so strongly about it. I was about 22 when it first came out. I had been a Carly obsessive for years already and was hugely disappointed with it. Not because of her voice or anything but I couldn't understand the songs or why she would choose to put an album of such old fashioned songs out. As the years have gone by, i really appreciate this album, along with My Romance and Film Noir and regularly choose to listen to them. I think Carly's handicap with some people( and I am not referring to you and your opinion of this album) is that she is perceived as a spoilt rich girl and therefore has nothing to say. Inverted snobbery. Some have even said she cannot sing or can't sing in tune which makes them sound stupid. We can't all like the same singers but to make such dumb satements about why is beyond me. The two people I like the most, music wise, and have all their works, is Carly and Joni. They couldn't be more different. I don't consider one better than the other. Both are so different. Again, Carly gets put down because her lyrics are simple. Yet they say so much and and are to the point and clever. She knows how to write a song. And she can be very funny and bitchy. Joni's songs are very different and not so easy to understand lyrically and some people allow that to influence them into thinking she is some sort of lyrical genius and is more 'deep and meaningful', when often I think she is just up herself or pandering to the pseuds. Both have talent, imo, and both bring me much pleasure. I don't compare them and I don't qualify or quanitfy(?). The beauty of their work is very much in the ear of the listener and I have little time for poncy analysis of their works by people who like to try and appear ever so more intelligent or more sensitive than the rest of us. Either we enjoy something or we don't. No amount of flowery critiquing will make a jot of difference. My partner, a trained opera singer and classical music buff, thinks Joni stinks-can't sing but he does recognzie that musically she is good and interesting but other than that he can't stand her. But then he does like Bjork who I think is dreadful. On the other hand he thinks Carly's voice is one pf the best around. And he thinks Kiri Te Kenawa's voice is too hard. I can't hear that. I still lsiten to what I enjoy to and he is kind enough to not play opera stuff when i am around as it really grates on my ears! I think cats on heat are less irritating. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:58:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Carly Torch NJC tantra_apso wrote: > David Henderson wrote: > >> I just think Torch is a perfect example of a singer with no >> standards experience >> > mmm. not so . her background is such songs. she sang them all her > life, grew up with them and even knew some of the writers as family > friends. > >> and no interpretive skills for a song >> > many disagree with you. we can't all like the same thing and don't all > hear alike either. Colin said it all so there's really nothing for me to add except to agree with him. I also have collected just about everything Carly has recorded. 'Torch' has always been a favorite and I will just say that I think Carly managed to put her own stamp on those songs without altering them beyond recognition. That it the mark of a fine singer and interpreter, imo. But to each his own. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:16:22 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Cher aging gracefully NJC David Henderson wrote: > Oh Mark, and I was just becoming so fond of you - "It would be a way > for Cher to age a little more gracefully" . . . What? I think Cher is > the coolest, most down to earth singer on the planet (other than Joni > of course), and she is aging with a beautifully-adjusted, kick-ass, > eye-to-the-future attitude that is lacking in so many her age (and > even many much younger). IMHO Most rock/pop singers, when they > record "the standards album," that's the end. They are wallowing in > the past, singing music they were never meant to sing, complaining > that the music world is not what it used to be, blah blah blah, one > foot in the grave. And not so much fun to be around and definitely > not "aging gracefully." I know I'm in a much happier place because > Cher recorded Not Enough Love in the World and Believe and The > Music's No Good Without You than if she had added to the endless > versions of Over the Rainbow and Someone to Watch Over Me. > > And while I'm ranting, would could be better than Cher being Cher? I > think others should try it! I have no problem with Cher being Cher. That's what I meant when I said part of me wants to say 'You go, girl!' I love her sassiness and her in-your-face way of saying just what's on her mind. But I do think she's just about reached the end of the line as far as strutting around stage in skin tight costumes with her ass hanging out and singing dance club numbers in a synthesized voice is concerned. How many farewell tours has she done now? And if she has any more work done on her face she's going to have to take up permanent residence in Madame Toussaud's pretty soon. She was on 'Will and Grace' a few years ago and she looked like a corpse, imo (or worse, like Joan Rivers). Both cosmetically and physically, she's not going to be able to do it forever. And I don't suggest that Cher should record 'Over the Rainbow' or 'Someone to Watch Over Me'. There was a sultry quality to her voice that seemed to come very naturally to her those many years ago when she sang 'Am I Blue?' on tv. I'm talking about torch songs, songs with heartbreak and gut not 'The Good Ship Lollypop'. I guess you didn't think much of Joni's 'Both Sides Now' cd, huh, David? To each his own! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:27:56 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC Speaking of Dylan, long Lama, the peacemaker here. I have several Dylan albums which I enjoy very much yet I agree with you, Ashara. I've seen him 3 times: once each in the 70s, 80s and 90s. The only time I enjoyed his music live was during the Rolling Thunder Revue in the 70s. The last 2 times, I had exactly the experience you describe. It's a shame but what 'cha gonna do? During the Bob/Joni/Van tour, my brother in law said he would like to take a road trip to see some legends. On the way, I told him that I fully appreciate Dylan as a recording artist but if he wanted to leave before Dylan closed the show it was okay with me. He was a bit puzzled and I kept being diplomatic. My brother in law gave him a fair chance (more than a 1/2 hour) but then we left. Bob's talent is burdened with an enormous irony. It's easier to love Joni: Amazing stories with supernatural word play, challenging counterpoint, world-class cover art, brilliant sidemen, a beautiful and versitile singing voice. Plus she's a hottie. Jim Ashara said in part, >I *really* did see Dylan, live and in person, with the wonderful Maggie McNally, when he was touring with Joni. ....suffice it to say I was in agony, *begging* Maggie (on my bended knees, no less)> And Jerry, the Broadway Guy wrote: <> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:31:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC re: Big Brother is coming, njc like a dorothy lamour sarong. sorry couldn't help it. w > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Bob > Muller > Enviado el: Sabado, 12 de Febrero de 2005 10:38 a.m. > Para: Garret; olszer@xlsecurity.com > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: NJC re: Big Brother is coming, njc > > > Just hope he doesn't come back wrapped in a flag. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:30:40 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sherelle's list NJC David Henderson wrote: > One of absolute favorite albums ever is Carole King's Rhymes and > Reasons, and Been to Canaan is one of the best. Some people blame > this album for her "downfall" but I think it's an incredible journey > . . . almost a story . . . Come Down Easy, Feeling Sad Tonight, > Ferguson Road . . . carthartic to me. I bought the cd of 'Rhymes and Reasons' a while back. I remember buying this record in the fall of my freshman year of college. I was a misfit, living in a dorm with a bunch of rowdy young het guys. This was 1972 and being 'out' was a very scary proposition. I did love this record. 'Feeling Sad Tonight'....'always feeling half right and half sad/halfway dreaming of some safe place away from school'...struck a chord. But somehow, listening to it now, it didn't sound quite the same. Kind of awkward and klunky. It made me think about Carole King and how she seemed to lose her edge not long after she acheived her greatest success with 'Tapestry'. I think maybe she tried too hard to be a 'singer/songwriter' after that album and lost some of that r&b groove that made her Brill Building stuff turn to gold in the hands of people like Aretha Franklin and The Shirelles. She balanced perfectly between the old and new on 'Tapestry'. But at some point she went over the edge and she just couldn't carry off the introspective poet thang like Joni and James and a few others could. 'Been to Canaan' is still a very nice song, though, and was one of my favorites. It still sounds good. Again, my opinion. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:42:27 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: State of the List NJC Is Mercury in retrograde again? In the past week, Patrick and Ashara have posted and they're rarely around. Catherine, who's perpetually pinching pennies, is going to France. We have sunshine in Cincinnati even though it is February. On top of that, the boss is posting. Regularly. Has the Universe gone wacky? Lama np: "Tupelo Honey" on our beloved singer-songwriter station ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #67 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)