From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #41 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 30 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 041 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue [Garret ] Re: Joan Baez njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joan Baez njc [Randy Remote ] homosexual affair? ["David Henderson" ] [none] ["David Henderson" ] Goat Dance? [eaddy sutton ] Re: Joan Baez njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joan Baez njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: homosexual affair? [Catherine McKay ] RE: Joan Baez njc ["Richard Flynn" ] No Subject [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Joan Baez njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joan Baez njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Two Grey Rooms ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joan Baez njc ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Joan Baez njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Goat Dance? ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] dippin' into recipes for guacamole and an artichoke heart thing too NJC [] Turntable Advice was [RE: Joan Baez] njc ["Richard Flynn" Subject: Re: Travelogue >Savoring Joni is one of life's pleasures and I am forever grateful for the priveledge. Mark, i really enjoyed your post. I too have benefited greatly from the opinions and passion around here. the sentiment expressed in the quote above is perfect. GARRET NP _Simon & Garfunkel- Only Living Boy in New York - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc --- Mark or Travis wrote: > I just saw Joan Baez sing 'Diamonds and Rust' on > PBS's Soundstage. Part of the lyric went like > this: > > (spoken: Get this) > 40 years ago I had bought you some cufflinks > You brought me something (spoken: trouble) > We both know what memories can bring > They bring diamonds and rust > > > and then the last line of the song: > > And if you're offering me diamonds and rust > I'll take the Grammy. > > Well *I* was amused. Yep, it is funny. I always think of Joan Baez as being very serious. Too serious. So serious she wouldn't make a joke like that. So, it's good to hear a joke from her. Of course, I've never seen her live and for all I know she could be one of those people who sings serious songs and who supports serious causes but is also hilariously funny. Who knew? > Mark E. in Seattle > wondering if I cut a big smelly cyber fart in my > last lengthy email.... > No way. You never do. You've never sent one stinky post. I, for one, read every word. I think it's just one of those cases where you said it so well... I couldn't think of anything to add and anyway, feel myself slipsliding away into semi-lurkdom again. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:05:21 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc Catherine McKay wrote: > I always think of Joan Baez as being > very serious. Too serious. So serious she wouldn't > make a joke like that. So, it's good to hear a joke > from her. Of course, I've never seen her live and for > all I know she could be one of those people who sings > serious songs and who supports serious causes but is > also hilariously funny. She does use humor in her musical presentation. The last time I saw her, following the applause for her first song, she said "I always like to start out with a dark, depressing murder ballad", which drew a laugh, since she had. She is also known to throw in a wheezy Dylan impression in the middle of performing "Tangled Up In Blue". RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:12:04 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: homosexual affair? >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:24:45 -0500 >From: Deb Messling >Subject: Re: Joni Trivia >Okay, this one I know: Two Grey Rooms. >>At 07:07 AM 1/29/2005, you wrote: >>Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >>Mark in Sydney Oh my God! I had no idea! Two Grey Rooms is one of my five or six all-time favorite Joni tunes, but I never had any idea it was about a gay romance. It would have meant even more to me when I first heard it if I had known. Still, it sort of messes up my internal video of the song. What will I do? When I was in my early 20's, I worked with a never-married woman named Dona in her mid-70's - a delicate yet strong little woman who always wore her steel-grey hair in a ponytail. A regal presence, a real intellectual, and unfortunately, a person of real sadness. I adored her and would have done anything to make her happy. She kept everyone at quite a distance, but every once and while, I felt like she let me slip in a bit. I've always imagined this was her story, ever since the very first moment I heard it. Wait, I've never had a clear vision of the man, never really cared about him! Maybe it's a woman she watches . . . maybe it's a lesbian love story. Okay, I feel better now. I take these things too seriously, I fear . . . David NP The Killers, Mr. Brightside (I have no idea what this song is about, but I love the way it sounds and have to hear it about 20 times a day!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:00:10 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: [none] >Garrett wrote: >The freedom sub, giving you three different ways of looking at freedom. >Nina Simone - I wish i knew how it would feel to be free >Joni Mitchell - Cactus Tree >Patt Smith - 1959 How about the 'tortured love that feels like sex' sub: We Belong Together - Rickie Lee Jones Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Joni Thru the Eyes of Ruby - Smashing Pumpkins >GARRET >NP - Janis Joplin, Little Girl Blue Wow, Little Girl Blue by Joplin . . . I haven't thought of this song in years . . . such gut-wrenching beauty. The song must be the real sound of heartache. What album is this? The one with Bobby McGee or the 'kozmic blues' one? It's so wicked cold here in NYC you would not believe it! David NP - Green Day, Boulevard of Broken Dreams ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:24:45 -0500 From: eaddy sutton Subject: Goat Dance? Here is a new member delighted to find fellow fanatics. Two simple things first -- The goat dance? You know, the red, red rouge. Friends and I have a fun version (can't quite describe, but will give it a try if other wish to compare interpretations.) I'm wondering about the JMDL word. Can't you just see that guy . . . smiling, heel kicking, Grecian om-a-let making thief. She mighta stayed on with him -- but have I missed an entire "thread" on the subject? And please quickly settle this one for me -- a sunset pig = a cop on Sunset Boulevard, no? Eaddy in VT On Jan 30, 2005, at 3:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Sunday, January 30 2005 Volume 2005 : > Number 040 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Joni sandwiches [Garret > ] > Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne > ] > Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne > ] > Re: Joni Trivia [Deb Messling > ] > Re: santiago campostela (NJC) ["Don Whiteman" > ] > recipes njc [Garret > ] > RE: Joni Trivia ["Richard Flynn" > ] > RE: Joni Trivia [Bob Muller > ] > Re: Joni Trivia ["Gerald A. Notaro" > ] > Re: Travelogue > [Bobsart48@aol.com] > Re: Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne > ] > Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi > ] > Re: Joni Trivia [Bob Muller > ] > Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi > ] > Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi > ] > Re: Travelogue ["Mark or Travis" > ] > Joan Baez njc ["Mark or Travis" > ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:16:30 +0000 > From: Garret > Subject: Re: Joni sandwiches > > The freedom sub, giving you three different ways of looking at freedom. > > Nina Simone - I wish i knew how it would feel to be free > Joni Mitchell - Cactus Tree > Patt Smith - 1959 > > > GARRET > NP - Janis Joplin, Little Girl Blue > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:06:04 +1100 > From: Mark-Leon Thorne > Subject: Joni Trivia > > Hi everyone! > > I have some trivia questions for you to see how dedicated you are (or > how obsessed you are). > > Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni appear as a black man? > > Mark in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:07:03 +1100 > From: Mark-Leon Thorne > Subject: Joni Trivia > > Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? > > Mark in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:24:45 -0500 > From: Deb Messling > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > Okay, this one I know: Two Grey Rooms. > > > > At 07:07 AM 1/29/2005, you wrote: >> Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >> >> Mark in Sydney > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > messling@enter.net > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:52:56 +1100 > From: "Don Whiteman" > Subject: Re: santiago campostela (NJC) > > Hi Clive, > > > A very good friend of mine walked it 3 years ago and has since doen the > Olso> Trondheim as well. He is planning to do the full Santiago trip > agin in > April. > > There is a very good website about the walk by people who have made the > trip. > > I will get he information on Monday at work and will email it to you > off > line. My friend may even be able to help you out with more info. > > regards > > Don in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:57:46 +0000 > From: Garret > Subject: recipes njc > > I picked up some interesting tips here before, so i thought i'd ask ye > all how > yis make salsa and guacamole. everyone seems to have their own tricks. > GARRET > > NP - Joni, nathal la franeer > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:42:52 -0500 > From: "Richard Flynn" > Subject: RE: Joni Trivia > > In "Furry Sings the Blues" > > - -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of > Mark-Leon Thorne > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:06 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Joni Trivia > > Hi everyone! > > I have some trivia questions for you to see how dedicated you are (or > how obsessed you are). > > Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni appear as a black man? > > Mark in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:07:37 -0800 (PST) > From: Bob Muller > Subject: RE: Joni Trivia > > Richard Flynn wrote: > In "Furry Sings the Blues" > > And also in the short film "The Black Cat With The Black Mouse Socks". > > Bob > > NP: Melissa Sweeney, "Sex Kills" (damn, y'all are gonna LOVE this one!) > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:48:44 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > Mark-Leon Thorne said: >> Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >> >> Mark in Sydney >> > Two Grey Rooms. Based on a Fassbinder story. > > Jerry > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:57:41 EST > From: Bobsart48@aol.com > Subject: Re: Travelogue > > Earlier this week, Em wrote of JOTMAS on T'log: > > "Had rejected this - for whatever reasons - its not quite as delicious > in > the conventional sense as the one on FTR. At least that was my initial > impression. But in a way, I realize now its almost more fitting in a > way. Travelogue > (tho I've not heard it all) required great courage, I > think...and faith. The faith of no tongue in the bell, or a waning > one. Can > someone tell me; are all the cuts on T'log so good? Or are they only > as good > as the original song? Does some stuff come alive on here that really > doesn't > hold water in any earlier verison?" > > Catherine replied: > > > > "I think the t'log versions of "Flat tires" and "Be cool" are far > superior > to the original versions. There are others that I think are equal but > different, most notably "God must be a boogie man", which is fun on > both T and Ming. > T songs I always skip over are "Woodstock", "The Circle Game" and "For > the > roses" which just take TOO LONG to get there, imo; anyway, > how many versions "Woodstock" or "Circle Game" is anyone prepared to > listen > to? ME? Not many!" > > I enjoyed both of these posts. I agree with Em that this was a brave > recording, and I believe it was a great success - just short of an > absolute triumph. > And Catherine pretty much nails why. I agree with her about Be Cool > and YDFT > - - and would add Cherokee Louise to that category, as Bob Muller > added The > Dawntreader (though he may be underestimating Joni's guitar work on the > original - which provided plenty of inspiration for the T'log > version). But Circle > Game and For The Roses - while great songs - do not belong in an > orchestrated > setting - they are simple songs of the soundhole and the knee. And > T'log's > Woodstock arrangement was heavy handed and ponderous - whereas Joni's > earlier > versions had succeeded as contemplative and soulful, and CSN's version > succeeded in capturing the energy of the event. > > Similarly - though to a lesser extent - for me, Trouble Child fails to > capture the fluidity of the original, especially the waves at Malibu, > for which > there is no excuse from an orchestral point of view. And, Just Like > This Train > would have benefited from a bit more "train" in it, for added pace, > even if it > were only a steady choo of brushed snare drums. More could have been > done > with both of these arrangements. And finally, for me, Love is in the > category > of Em's double-entendred query "are they only as good as the original > song ?". > To me, yes, only as good - and I was never a great fan of that song, > though > I believe it's theme and size are perfect fits for T'log > > But the other 16 songs are outstanding, IMO (though it has taken me two > years to appreciate just how wonderful they really are). Joni selected > songs of > importance and balanced them with a few songs of humor (succeeding > with those > highlighted by Catherine, and also with God Must Be a Boogie Man). And > they > were all songs she still felt comfortable performing - I can see how > important > that must be for her, and believe that she made the right decision > there. > > For me, if Joni were to have replaced the three songs noted above, > T'log > would have been among her 'perfect' efforts. The question is, with > which songs ? > BSN and ACOY were taken in the previous album (otherwise both might > have > been well placed on T'log). For me, a few candidates might have been > Banquet, > River (saving it for the Christmas album ?), Down To You, Jungle > Line, Shadows > and Light, Magdalene Laundries, Harry's House/Centerpiece. Really, > there > should have been something from THOSL, eh ? > > As it is, I feel pretty blessed. Thank you again, Joni. > > Bobsart > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:55:40 +1100 > From: Mark-Leon Thorne > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > On 30/01/2005, at 2:48 AM, Gerald A. Notaro wrote: > >> Mark-Leon Thorne said: >>> Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >>> >>> Mark in Sydney >>> >> Two Grey Rooms. Based on a Fassbinder story. >> >> Jerry >> > Very good, Jerry. That is correct. > > The answer to the other trivia question is, besides on the cover of > DJRD, Joni also appeared as a black man in the video clip for The Beat > of Black Wings. > > Mark in Sydney. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:26:47 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jamie Zubairi > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > Hi Mark in Sydney > > I haven't read the answer yet so I'm going to say > > on the video to 'THe BEat of Black Wings' and as Art > Nouveau in the short film 'Love' or something like > that.... > > And at a Hallowe'en Party in LA in the late '70s > > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > > > --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: >> Hi everyone! >> >> I have some trivia questions for you to see how >> dedicated you are (or >> how obsessed you are). >> >> Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni >> appear as a black man? >> >> Mark in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) > From: Bob Muller > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > > > Well, it's AN answer, Mark. Richard's answer was correct as was mine. > Wasn't the one you were thinking of but still both are right.I thought > Richard's answer was REALLY cool. > > Speaking of that video; while I think Beat of Black Wings is FAR & > AWAY the finest thing on CMIARS, that video is embarrasing. That's why > nobody mentioned it; it's so totally forgettable that we all forgot > it. > > Bob > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:28:56 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jamie Zubairi > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > ALL OF THEM!!!!! > > Well, no. But I'm sure they would be... > > Two Grey Rooms is the story in question. Or 'Free Men > In Pairs' ;) > > Much Joni (and vodka) > > Jamie Zoob > > > > --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: >> Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >> >> Mark in Sydney > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:45:42 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jamie Zubairi > Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > Hi Bob > > I really like that video (somebody must, I guess) I > like the way there is an interplay of the > choreographed dancers and her in silhouette. And > nobody watching MTV would've guessed that the black > man in the video is actually a skinny white-assed > folksinging woman from Canada, would they? > > It's quite clever for her to go 'I guess I'm looking > kinda too old for this pop video game, I know I'll be > in it but in shadow and under heavy make-up! Nobody'll > know it's me! Ha ha ha....' > > Or maybe she didn't but that's my take on it > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > --- Bob Muller wrote: >> Speaking of that video; while I think Beat of Black >> Wings is FAR & AWAY the finest thing on CMIARS, that >> video is embarrasing. That's why nobody mentioned >> it; it's so totally forgettable that we all forgot >> it. >> >> Bob >> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:26:20 -0800 > From: "Mark or Travis" > Subject: Re: Travelogue > > Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > But Circle Game and For The Roses - while great songs - do >> not belong in an orchestrated setting - they are simple songs of the >> soundhole and the knee. And T'log's Woodstock arrangement was heavy >> handed and ponderous - whereas Joni's earlier versions had succeeded >> as contemplative and soulful, and CSN's version >> succeeded in capturing the energy of the event. > > See I think the Travelogue 'For the Roses' and 'Woodstock' add new > dimensions to both of those songs > that reflect Joni's current point of view. Joni's vocal on 'For the > Roses' has a world-weary sound > to it that suits her present day attitude toward the music business > and also I think the > orchestration is very descriptive of a blustery late autumn night on > the BC coast. I hear the wind > gusting in some of the musical flourishes and the rustling of the > arbutus in Wayne Shorter's > agitated bursts. In the case of 'Woodstock' she's looking at the > event from more than 30 years > later. It is now invested with nostalgia and myth, focused more on > the half a million strong than > the solitary child of God. Both arrangements work very well for me > although it took me awhile to > make some kind of sense out of 'For the Roses'. > > I also like Wayne's impression of a dragonfly on 'The Circle Game'. > > I'm in total agreement with Bob Muller on the 'The Dawntreader'. It > is my favorite cut on the album > and although I agree with Bob S. that most of the arrangement was > already in the guitar playing on > the original, the delicate orchestration with the harp and the strings > suggesting the rocking rythm > of the surf underneath it really enhances the song and makes all the > colors & textures richer and > deeper. > >> >> Similarly - though to a lesser extent - for me, Trouble Child fails to >> capture the fluidity of the original, especially the waves at Malibu, >> for which there is no excuse from an orchestral point of view. > > I would agree with you here. This one doesn't work as well for me as > some of the other cuts on > 'Travelogue' > > For me, a few candidates might have been >> Banquet, >> River (saving it for the Christmas album ?), Down To You, Jungle >> Line, Shadows >> and Light, Magdalene Laundries, Harry's House/Centerpiece. > > To me the original 'Down To You' has always sounded like a piece of > chamber music to begin with. I > think she was able to articulate everything she wanted to in the > orginal. I don't think it would > benefit from an orchestral treatment. 'Magdalene Laundries' is > another one that also seems somehow > too intimate for orchestration, imo. Now 'Banquet' and 'Harry's > House/Centerpiece - I think those > are great candidates. I agree that THOSL would probably yield some > impressive results given the > 'Travelogue treatment.' > > Really, >> there >> should have been something from THOSL, eh ? >> >> As it is, I feel pretty blessed. Thank you again, Joni. > > Me too. I'm glad to see that 'Travelogue' is beginning to sink in > with some people. There were > some pretty strong negative reactions to it when it was first released. > > In response to another thread that was going on recently and tying > into people warming up to > 'Travelogue,' there are at least two of Joni's albums that I was > enraptured with almost from the > first hearing. 'Court and Spark' and 'Song to a Seagull'. Others > took some time to absorb and > still others floated around at the bottom of my list of favorites for > years until after being on the > JMDL for awhile. My first attraction to Joni was mainly her lyrics. > 'C&S' and 'STAS' are two or > her most appealing and accessible albums from a purely musical > standpoint, imo, so coupled with the > beauty and exquisite craftsmanship of the lyrics, it was easy for me > to hook in to those two > records. After learning a *lot* from reading the opinions and > insights of people on this list, > quite a few of whom are musicians, I began to learn to appreciate Joni > from a purely musical > standpoint. I began to realize just how truly unique and ingenious > her music is. It has made me go > back and listen to some of the earlier albums especially and hear just > how truly melodic and > inventive they really are. Really, my perspective on music in general > has been broadened by > subscibing to the JMDL. I recently bought a couple of old Jethro Tull > releases on cd, 'Stand Up' > and 'Benefit' and have really enjoyed the originality and unique > sounds of those two records, > hearing things in them that I didn't pay much attention to when I > first heard them nearly 30 years > ago. And I had a good friend in college, one of my main smoking > buddies, who was really into Jethro > Tull so I heard them alot when we were tooting up in his dorm room. > > Back to Joni. Most of her records cannot be fully assessed after one > or two or even three > listenings, imo. I also think that the diversity of her interests > have led her into musical waters > over the years that some people who normally love her work just don't > care for. We all have our > personal likes and dislikes and if you don't care for electronic music > and you like acoustic guitar > or more traditional rock, you won't like the sound of 'Dog Eat Dog' or > 'Chalkmark'. But that > doesn't necessarily mean those are not good records. For me, Joni > puts her own personal stamp on > anything she does and that will always make whatever she does > interesting. I knew a woman who was a > big fan of Joni's. Back in the 70s I played 'The Hissing of Summer > Lawns' for her for the first > time and her reaction was 'it's just not Joni.' At the time I was > almost inclined to agree with > her. She had followed Joni for much longer than I had and 'THOSL' had > an almost detached quality to > it in comparison to say, 'Blue' or even 'Court and Spark'. But I > never dismissed 'THOSL' outright > and years later I began to think of it as an innovative masterpiece. > I feel the same way about 'Don > Juan's Reckless Daughter'. Recently, I've begun to see 'Dog Eat Dog' > as another work of Joni genius > as I hear the intricacies of the arrangements on the Geffen Box Set > remastered release. > 'Travelogue' reveals a bit more of itself to me with each listen. > Savoring Joni is one of life's > pleasures and I am forever grateful for the priveledge. > > Mark E. in Seattle > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:08:14 -0800 > From: "Mark or Travis" > Subject: Joan Baez njc > > I just saw Joan Baez sing 'Diamonds and Rust' on PBS's Soundstage. > Part of the lyric went like > this: > > (spoken: Get this) > 40 years ago I had bought you some cufflinks > You brought me something (spoken: trouble) > We both know what memories can bring > They bring diamonds and rust > > > and then the last line of the song: > > And if you're offering me diamonds and rust > I'll take the Grammy. > > Well *I* was amused. > > Mark E. in Seattle > wondering if I cut a big smelly cyber fart in my last lengthy email.... > > in the words of Grace Slick: > The tongues of some men > Are made of silence > And your eyes will listen > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2005 #40 > **************************** > > ------- > Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- > Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:54:52 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc Catherine McKay wrote: > No way. You never do. You've never sent one stinky > post. I, for one, read every word. I think it's just > one of those cases where you said it so well... I > couldn't think of anything to add and anyway, feel > myself slipsliding away into semi-lurkdom again. > Don't do that! You always have something interesting to say and you say it in such an entertaining and witty way! It wasn't so much a lack of response to my post. It was just that the list seemed to go dead quiet after I sent it. There was nothing about anything. It seems to me that's happened on several occasions after I've sent some long piece of my scattered brain to the list. Makes me wonder if it puts people off or just puts them to sleep. Probably just my overactive paranoic imagination working overtime again. Have you ever heard Joan's 'From Every Stage' album? She does have a sense of humor. It's a live recording and at some point she says 'I'd like to do a song that I wrote' and somebody in the audience yells something out. Joan comes back with 'No, it's not that one, it's another one. I hope you can adjust.' Don't lurk, Catherine! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:56:20 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc Randy Remote wrote: She is also known to throw in > a wheezy Dylan impression in the middle of performing "Tangled > Up In Blue". Also on 'Simple Twist of Fate' on the Diamonds and Rust album. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:09:20 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: homosexual affair? --- David Henderson wrote: > >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:24:45 -0500 > >From: Deb Messling > >Subject: Re: Joni Trivia > > >Okay, this one I know: Two Grey Rooms. > > >>At 07:07 AM 1/29/2005, you wrote: > >>Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual > affair? > >>Mark in Sydney > > Oh my God! I had no idea! Two Grey Rooms is one of > my five or six all-time > favorite Joni tunes, but I never had any idea it was > about a gay romance. > It would have meant even more to me when I first > heard it if I had known. > Still, it sort of messes up my internal video of the > song. What will I do? > When I was in my early 20's, I worked with a > never-married woman named Dona > in her mid-70's - a delicate yet strong little woman > who always wore her > steel-grey hair in a ponytail. A regal presence, a > real intellectual, and > unfortunately, a person of real sadness. I adored > her and would have done > anything to make her happy. She kept everyone at > quite a distance, but > every once and while, I felt like she let me slip in > a bit. I've always > imagined this was her story, ever since the very > first moment I heard it. > Wait, I've never had a clear vision of the man, > never really cared about > him! Maybe it's a woman she watches . . . maybe it's > a lesbian love story. > Okay, I feel better now. > > I take these things too seriously, I fear . . . > David The beauty of Joni's songs is that they can mean different things to different people, or different things at different times. I didn't know about the Fassbinder story either until I read it here (if I read it here, it must be true, heh-heh) and so I figured that Joni was writing, as an older woman, about someone that she had either had an affair with many years before, or perhaps just wished she had. It's a universal sort of a theme that could fit many scenarios. And the person telling the story could be a voyeur, in fact - viewed a certain way, it could be kind of creepy. > NP The Killers, Mr. Brightside (I have no idea what > this song is about, but > I love the way it sounds and have to hear it about > 20 times a day!) And speaking of creepy, the Killers' songs do tend to be very dark, even if they don't sound that way musically. "Jenny was a friend of mine" is about someone who murdered his girlfriend, sung from the point of view of the murderer, although, as I understand it, the girl was for real and was a friend of the songwriter. I think "Mr Brightside" is about a voyeur or a stalker. He's either someone who used to go out with someone who is now seeing someone else; or she's fooling around on him; or, he has never even spoken to her but watches her with some other guy; or, she is his girlfriend, but he's imagining that she's with someone else because he's so jealous. Any of those. Their songs tend to be about stalkers, murderers, perverts and other nice people like that. Heh-heh. So, yeah, their lyrics are open to many interpretations. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:11:42 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joan Baez njc I recently had the good fortune to get a copy of Murray Lerner's "Festival!" (Newport Folk Fest Documentary 1963-66)on EZ Torrent and was struck by how keen Joan Baez's sens of humor was. They're trying to do a little crowd control after Dylan plays and Baez says, "Proceed non-violently---or I'll kill you!" Later when she's signing autographs, someone asks her if she gets writer's cramp and she replies, "No, just a bloated ego." Also, given the purist factor at Newport in those days, Baez subversively sings the Beatles' "From Me to You" a capella while she signs autographs, with a great big grin on her face! I haven't seen her live since about 1970, but I think her reputation for humorlessness is undeserved. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Randy Remote Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:05 PM To: Catherine McKay; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc Catherine McKay wrote: > I always think of Joan Baez as being > very serious. Too serious. So serious she wouldn't > make a joke like that. So, it's good to hear a joke > from her. Of course, I've never seen her live and for > all I know she could be one of those people who sings > serious songs and who supports serious causes but is > also hilariously funny. She does use humor in her musical presentation. The last time I saw her, following the applause for her first song, she said "I always like to start out with a dark, depressing murder ballad", which drew a laugh, since she had. She is also known to throw in a wheezy Dylan impression in the middle of performing "Tangled Up In Blue". RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:08:22 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: No Subject Speaking of the verions of various songs on T'long, Catherine McK said: <> I agree totally! She (or the arranger or both) gave the first two a sixties "hepcat" Frank Sinatra reading that make them hilarious but wonderful, and as much as I love th original of GMBABM, the T'log version has even more oomph to it (when the instrumental bridge goes oooWHOOMPH followed by those descending triplets, I have to stop whatever I'm doing, slam the bed joyfully on the whomph and then tap out the triplets; this can occasionally be embarrassing during sex, but fortunately, I rarely have sex...where was I?). Oh, and I think the wooziness of the person in the mental institution is more beautifully captured in T'log's version of Trouble Child. I also agree with Catherine that T'log's FTR is too draggy, and in addition to wondering why we needed yet other versions of Woodstock and TCG, why oh why another "Borderline"? The original puts me in a coma, and this one's barely different. And of course the million dollar question was : What, not a **single** song on HOSL was worth reexamining????? my 2c -- gotta get back to scaring Robert by slapping the bed rhythmically while he's trying to sleep... best, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:14:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc --- Mark or Travis wrote: > It wasn't so much a lack of response to my post. It > was just that the list seemed to go dead quiet > after I sent it. There was nothing about anything. > It seems to me that's happened on several > occasions after I've sent some long piece of my > scattered brain to the list. Makes me wonder if it > puts people off or just puts them to sleep. > Probably just my overactive paranoic imagination > working overtime again. > I'd go with a combination of "paranoic imagination..." combined with the fact that it's the weekend and things seem to get quieter around here on the weekend, which suggests that either people only read/post from work (bastards!) or that they have lives (bastards!) Or maybe they're mulling over what you've said and thinking before responding. Funny thing about this list, esp. lately - there's a flurry of activity for a while, then everyone falls silent all at once. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:18:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc --- Mark or Travis wrote: > Randy Remote wrote: > She is also known to throw in > > a wheezy Dylan impression in the middle of > performing "Tangled > > Up In Blue". > > Also on 'Simple Twist of Fate' on the Diamonds and > Rust album. > > Mark E. > Oh yeah! I've got that album, on LP though. It's sitting mouldering in the basement. I've hung onto all my LPs thinking one day I'd get a turntable again. A decent one. Several decades have passed since then. Should I give up, do ya think and sell off the LPs? What would a warped LP fetch on E-Bay, I wonder? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:19:21 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms David Henderson wrote: > Oh my God! I had no idea! Two Grey Rooms is one of my five or six > all-time favorite Joni tunes, but I never had any idea it was about a > gay romance. It would have meant even more to me when I first heard > it if I had known. Still, it sort of messes up my internal video of > the song. What will I do? When I first heard this song I thought maybe Joni was fantasizing about finding out where her daughter was and then going off on her own to see her. But she can't work up the nerve to meet her face to face so she rents those two grey rooms with a view in a place where she knows she can see her walking by every day. The line about 'hot days your shirts undone' didn't quite fit in with that theory, however, although it isn't really completely gender specific. I think this was in the days before Joni made her Little Green story public. I had begun to suspect, however, after the reference in 'Chinese Cafe' that Joni was singing about herself and the child that she bore but could not raise. I believe Joni has said that the actual story behind her lyrical concept for 'Two Grey Rooms' was about somebody in the German filmmaker Fassbinder's circle, a man who was still in love with another man who had been his lover 30 years before and actually rented rooms with a vantage point where he could watch unobserved the object of his love coming and going from work. Joni has also said that what the song means to you is what is most important. There are many of her songs that have come to have specific meanings for me that refer directly to things in my own life. That's part of her genius, imo. So don't give up your own interpretation. It's what makes the song special to you and is as valid as anybody else's take on it. Mark E. (yet again) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:26:18 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc Catherine McKay wrote: I've hung onto all > my LPs thinking one day I'd get a turntable again. A > decent one. Several decades have passed since then. > Should I give up, do ya think and sell off the LPs? > What would a warped LP fetch on E-Bay, I wonder? > I've got three Peaches record crates full of vinyl lps stashed in a closet. I used to drag one or two out every now & then when I wanted to use a cut on a tape I was making. Now I have a cd player in my car and don't make tapes anymore. Some of the ends of those lp jackets have been shredded by various cats that have used them for a scratching post throughout the years. But would I part with those records? Not on your life, Sister! Really not very smart given the size of our house (minute) and the fact that every closet is crammed full. Mark E. in Seattle apparently suffering from keyboard diarrhea this morning ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:26:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: RE: Joan Baez njc Those who haven't seen her live always seem to think she has no humor because she speaks so seriously about the causes she believes in so seriously. I've seen her many times, have even converted that South Carolina guy. The first time I saw her live was the Rolling Thunder Review and she disco danced for all of us on stage. It was VERY funny. Jerry np: Amelia - Shawn and Mary Chapin Richard Flynn said: > I recently had the good fortune to get a copy of Murray Lerner's > "Festival!" > (Newport Folk Fest Documentary 1963-66)on EZ Torrent and was struck by how > keen Joan Baez's sens of humor was. They're trying to do a little crowd > control after Dylan plays and Baez says, "Proceed non-violently---or I'll > kill you!" Later when she's signing autographs, someone asks her if she > gets writer's cramp and she replies, "No, just a bloated ego." > > Also, given the purist factor at Newport in those days, Baez subversively > sings the Beatles' "From Me to You" a capella while she signs autographs, > with a great big grin on her face! > > I haven't seen her live since about 1970, but I think her reputation for > humorlessness is undeserved. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Randy > Remote > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:05 PM > To: Catherine McKay; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Joan Baez njc > > Catherine McKay wrote: > >> I always think of Joan Baez as being >> very serious. Too serious. So serious she wouldn't >> make a joke like that. So, it's good to hear a joke >> from her. Of course, I've never seen her live and for >> all I know she could be one of those people who sings >> serious songs and who supports serious causes but is >> also hilariously funny. > > She does use humor in her musical presentation. The last time > I saw her, following the applause for her first song, she said > "I always like to start out with a dark, depressing murder ballad", > which drew a laugh, since she had. She is also known to throw in > a wheezy Dylan impression in the middle of performing "Tangled > Up In Blue". > RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:30:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Goat Dance? eaddy sutton said: > > And please quickly settle this one for me -- a sunset pig = a cop on > Sunset Boulevard, no? > > Eaddy in VT>> Of course we'll never know for sure, but most listers would say yes. Jerry P.S. When you reply to the list, don't include the entire Digest. Some listers get grumpy about that :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:41:09 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: dippin' into recipes for guacamole and an artichoke heart thing too NJC Guacamole two avocados....ripe but not too ripe, ie not too mooshy chopped garlic dijon mustard mayo (real) squeeze of lemon Artichoke hear thing 14 ounce jar of artichoke hearts 1/2 real mayo chopped garlic lemon juice, squeeeze or two 1/2 cup grated parmesan cheese bake at 350F for ten minutes, serve with pita and/or crackers the artichoke thing is amazing i fidge around with quantities of things, i only give them as guidelines here, for those who need them. to me, cooking is an art form, and I feel it as i go. now do me the favour of sending me a recipe for tandoori chicken...anyone??? Mags np: wailin jennys, imagine your a girl with ten mile stilts , nice timing ;-) "set this freedom free" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:45:37 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Turntable Advice was [RE: Joan Baez] njc I've gotten some very nice turntables from pawn shops for about 35-40 bucks apiece, less than a new stylus would cost, Since I have about 1000 lps [including such gems as _Dog Eat Dog_ only on lp ;-)] I couldn't live without a turntable. There are lots of turntables on Ebay, too. Oh yeah! I've got that album, on LP though. It's sitting mouldering in the basement. I've hung onto all my LPs thinking one day I'd get a turntable again. A decent one. Several decades have passed since then. Should I give up, do ya think and sell off the LPs? What would a warped LP fetch on E-Bay, I wonder? ===== Catherine Toronto - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:45:43 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: The last time I saw --- Eyyy! Who the hell are YOU lookin' at? Garret wrote: > That's interesting as Blue seems to be the one that > people get. I loved it > immediately, with the exception of Richard which i > took as self-indulgent, > tune-less dirge. Good heavens -- Richard, a dirge??!! -- I always thought it was one of her most rhythmically brilliant songs (in that respect it sounds almost like it would have sounded right at home on Hejira or DJRD), and funniest in a self-deprecating way. btw, (spoiler warning -- and, if you've heard my voice, you know I *do* **mean** "spoiler") I've been working on a version of it that I may or may not perform someday, say if I can make to either or both of the fests this year. A hint: I "sing" it (with some modifications) as a medley with Lush Life, with which I've always associated it (see some lyrics below), and possibly another song, which I haven't decided on yet. Lush Life (by Billy Strayhorn, who wrote the first version of it when he was still in his teens!) I used to visit all the gay places Those come-what-may places Where one relaxes on the axis Of the Wheel of Life To get the feel of life From Jazz and cocktails All the men I knew had sad and sullen grey faces With distingue traces It used to be that you could see Where they'd been washed away By too many through the day Twelve-o-clock tales Then you came along with your siren song To tempt me to madness I thought for a while that your poignant smile Was tinged with the sadness Of a great love for me Oh, yes, I was wrong Again, I was wrong [snip] I'll forget you, I will! And yet you are still Burning inside my brain Romance is mush Stifling those who strive I'll lead a lush life In some small dive And there I'll be While I rot with the rest Of those whose life are lonely, too... There, now did that cheer everybody up? It's less a tears-in-your-beers song than a "Make me another one, bartender, yes, another one, goddammit, and this time, for once, make it dry: I mean, just whisper the word 'vermouth' over the gin and we'll *call* it a martini, okay -- and leave out the *&^%$ olives this time, shall we -- they just take away from the bouquet" kind of song. Anyway, the closing sorta makes me think of "Richard". best to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:17:44 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: dippin' into recipes for guacamole and an artichoke heart thing too NJC Hi Mags, the artichoke thing sounds great. I may whip that one up during the week. I don't thinki i've ever used them. GARRET (who can't help you with tandoori chicken but knows a thousand ways to serve potatoes, or bidatis as we say in ireland) NP- Smokey Robinson (and the miracles i think), tracks of my tears - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #41 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)