From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #40 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 30 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 040 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni sandwiches [Garret ] Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Joni Trivia [Deb Messling ] Re: santiago campostela (NJC) ["Don Whiteman" ] recipes njc [Garret ] RE: Joni Trivia ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Joni Trivia [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Trivia ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Travelogue [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni Trivia [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Joni Trivia [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Joni Trivia [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Travelogue ["Mark or Travis" ] Joan Baez njc ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:16:30 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni sandwiches The freedom sub, giving you three different ways of looking at freedom. Nina Simone - I wish i knew how it would feel to be free Joni Mitchell - Cactus Tree Patt Smith - 1959 GARRET NP - Janis Joplin, Little Girl Blue - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:06:04 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Joni Trivia Hi everyone! I have some trivia questions for you to see how dedicated you are (or how obsessed you are). Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni appear as a black man? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:07:03 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Joni Trivia Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:24:45 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni Trivia Okay, this one I know: Two Grey Rooms. At 07:07 AM 1/29/2005, you wrote: >Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? > >Mark in Sydney - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:52:56 +1100 From: "Don Whiteman" Subject: Re: santiago campostela (NJC) Hi Clive, A very good friend of mine walked it 3 years ago and has since doen the Olso> Trondheim as well. He is planning to do the full Santiago trip agin in April. There is a very good website about the walk by people who have made the trip. I will get he information on Monday at work and will email it to you off line. My friend may even be able to help you out with more info. regards Don in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:57:46 +0000 From: Garret Subject: recipes njc I picked up some interesting tips here before, so i thought i'd ask ye all how yis make salsa and guacamole. everyone seems to have their own tricks. GARRET NP - Joni, nathal la franeer - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:42:52 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni Trivia In "Furry Sings the Blues" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Mark-Leon Thorne Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:06 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni Trivia Hi everyone! I have some trivia questions for you to see how dedicated you are (or how obsessed you are). Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni appear as a black man? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: RE: Joni Trivia Richard Flynn wrote: In "Furry Sings the Blues" And also in the short film "The Black Cat With The Black Mouse Socks". Bob NP: Melissa Sweeney, "Sex Kills" (damn, y'all are gonna LOVE this one!) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:48:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Joni Trivia Mark-Leon Thorne said: > Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? > > Mark in Sydney > Two Grey Rooms. Based on a Fassbinder story. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:57:41 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Earlier this week, Em wrote of JOTMAS on T'log: "Had rejected this - for whatever reasons - its not quite as delicious in the conventional sense as the one on FTR. At least that was my initial impression. But in a way, I realize now its almost more fitting in a way. Travelogue (tho I've not heard it all) required great courage, I think...and faith. The faith of no tongue in the bell, or a waning one. Can someone tell me; are all the cuts on T'log so good? Or are they only as good as the original song? Does some stuff come alive on here that really doesn't hold water in any earlier verison?" Catherine replied: "I think the t'log versions of "Flat tires" and "Be cool" are far superior to the original versions. There are others that I think are equal but different, most notably "God must be a boogie man", which is fun on both T and Ming. T songs I always skip over are "Woodstock", "The Circle Game" and "For the roses" which just take TOO LONG to get there, imo; anyway, how many versions "Woodstock" or "Circle Game" is anyone prepared to listen to? ME? Not many!" I enjoyed both of these posts. I agree with Em that this was a brave recording, and I believe it was a great success - just short of an absolute triumph. And Catherine pretty much nails why. I agree with her about Be Cool and YDFT - - and would add Cherokee Louise to that category, as Bob Muller added The Dawntreader (though he may be underestimating Joni's guitar work on the original - which provided plenty of inspiration for the T'log version). But Circle Game and For The Roses - while great songs - do not belong in an orchestrated setting - they are simple songs of the soundhole and the knee. And T'log's Woodstock arrangement was heavy handed and ponderous - whereas Joni's earlier versions had succeeded as contemplative and soulful, and CSN's version succeeded in capturing the energy of the event. Similarly - though to a lesser extent - for me, Trouble Child fails to capture the fluidity of the original, especially the waves at Malibu, for which there is no excuse from an orchestral point of view. And, Just Like This Train would have benefited from a bit more "train" in it, for added pace, even if it were only a steady choo of brushed snare drums. More could have been done with both of these arrangements. And finally, for me, Love is in the category of Em's double-entendred query "are they only as good as the original song ?". To me, yes, only as good - and I was never a great fan of that song, though I believe it's theme and size are perfect fits for T'log But the other 16 songs are outstanding, IMO (though it has taken me two years to appreciate just how wonderful they really are). Joni selected songs of importance and balanced them with a few songs of humor (succeeding with those highlighted by Catherine, and also with God Must Be a Boogie Man). And they were all songs she still felt comfortable performing - I can see how important that must be for her, and believe that she made the right decision there. For me, if Joni were to have replaced the three songs noted above, T'log would have been among her 'perfect' efforts. The question is, with which songs ? BSN and ACOY were taken in the previous album (otherwise both might have been well placed on T'log). For me, a few candidates might have been Banquet, River (saving it for the Christmas album ?), Down To You, Jungle Line, Shadows and Light, Magdalene Laundries, Harry's House/Centerpiece. Really, there should have been something from THOSL, eh ? As it is, I feel pretty blessed. Thank you again, Joni. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:55:40 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni Trivia On 30/01/2005, at 2:48 AM, Gerald A. Notaro wrote: > Mark-Leon Thorne said: >> Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? >> >> Mark in Sydney >> > Two Grey Rooms. Based on a Fassbinder story. > > Jerry > Very good, Jerry. That is correct. The answer to the other trivia question is, besides on the cover of DJRD, Joni also appeared as a black man in the video clip for The Beat of Black Wings. Mark in Sydney. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:26:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Joni Trivia Hi Mark in Sydney I haven't read the answer yet so I'm going to say on the video to 'THe BEat of Black Wings' and as Art Nouveau in the short film 'Love' or something like that.... And at a Hallowe'en Party in LA in the late '70s Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I have some trivia questions for you to see how > dedicated you are (or > how obsessed you are). > > Besides the cover of DJRD, where else did Joni > appear as a black man? > > Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Trivia Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: Subject: Re: Joni Trivia ALL OF THEM!!!!! Well, no. But I'm sure they would be... Two Grey Rooms is the story in question. Or 'Free Men In Pairs' ;) Much Joni (and vodka) Jamie Zoob --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Which of Joni's songs is about a homosexual affair? > > Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:45:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Joni Trivia Hi Bob I really like that video (somebody must, I guess) I like the way there is an interplay of the choreographed dancers and her in silhouette. And nobody watching MTV would've guessed that the black man in the video is actually a skinny white-assed folksinging woman from Canada, would they? It's quite clever for her to go 'I guess I'm looking kinda too old for this pop video game, I know I'll be in it but in shadow and under heavy make-up! Nobody'll know it's me! Ha ha ha....' Or maybe she didn't but that's my take on it Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Bob Muller wrote: > Speaking of that video; while I think Beat of Black > Wings is FAR & AWAY the finest thing on CMIARS, that > video is embarrasing. That's why nobody mentioned > it; it's so totally forgettable that we all forgot > it. > > Bob > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:26:20 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelogue Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: But Circle Game and For The Roses - while great songs - do > not belong in an orchestrated setting - they are simple songs of the > soundhole and the knee. And T'log's Woodstock arrangement was heavy > handed and ponderous - whereas Joni's earlier versions had succeeded > as contemplative and soulful, and CSN's version > succeeded in capturing the energy of the event. See I think the Travelogue 'For the Roses' and 'Woodstock' add new dimensions to both of those songs that reflect Joni's current point of view. Joni's vocal on 'For the Roses' has a world-weary sound to it that suits her present day attitude toward the music business and also I think the orchestration is very descriptive of a blustery late autumn night on the BC coast. I hear the wind gusting in some of the musical flourishes and the rustling of the arbutus in Wayne Shorter's agitated bursts. In the case of 'Woodstock' she's looking at the event from more than 30 years later. It is now invested with nostalgia and myth, focused more on the half a million strong than the solitary child of God. Both arrangements work very well for me although it took me awhile to make some kind of sense out of 'For the Roses'. I also like Wayne's impression of a dragonfly on 'The Circle Game'. I'm in total agreement with Bob Muller on the 'The Dawntreader'. It is my favorite cut on the album and although I agree with Bob S. that most of the arrangement was already in the guitar playing on the original, the delicate orchestration with the harp and the strings suggesting the rocking rythm of the surf underneath it really enhances the song and makes all the colors & textures richer and deeper. > > Similarly - though to a lesser extent - for me, Trouble Child fails to > capture the fluidity of the original, especially the waves at Malibu, > for which there is no excuse from an orchestral point of view. I would agree with you here. This one doesn't work as well for me as some of the other cuts on 'Travelogue' For me, a few candidates might have been > Banquet, > River (saving it for the Christmas album ?), Down To You, Jungle > Line, Shadows > and Light, Magdalene Laundries, Harry's House/Centerpiece. To me the original 'Down To You' has always sounded like a piece of chamber music to begin with. I think she was able to articulate everything she wanted to in the orginal. I don't think it would benefit from an orchestral treatment. 'Magdalene Laundries' is another one that also seems somehow too intimate for orchestration, imo. Now 'Banquet' and 'Harry's House/Centerpiece - I think those are great candidates. I agree that THOSL would probably yield some impressive results given the 'Travelogue treatment.' Really, > there > should have been something from THOSL, eh ? > > As it is, I feel pretty blessed. Thank you again, Joni. Me too. I'm glad to see that 'Travelogue' is beginning to sink in with some people. There were some pretty strong negative reactions to it when it was first released. In response to another thread that was going on recently and tying into people warming up to 'Travelogue,' there are at least two of Joni's albums that I was enraptured with almost from the first hearing. 'Court and Spark' and 'Song to a Seagull'. Others took some time to absorb and still others floated around at the bottom of my list of favorites for years until after being on the JMDL for awhile. My first attraction to Joni was mainly her lyrics. 'C&S' and 'STAS' are two or her most appealing and accessible albums from a purely musical standpoint, imo, so coupled with the beauty and exquisite craftsmanship of the lyrics, it was easy for me to hook in to those two records. After learning a *lot* from reading the opinions and insights of people on this list, quite a few of whom are musicians, I began to learn to appreciate Joni from a purely musical standpoint. I began to realize just how truly unique and ingenious her music is. It has made me go back and listen to some of the earlier albums especially and hear just how truly melodic and inventive they really are. Really, my perspective on music in general has been broadened by subscibing to the JMDL. I recently bought a couple of old Jethro Tull releases on cd, 'Stand Up' and 'Benefit' and have really enjoyed the originality and unique sounds of those two records, hearing things in them that I didn't pay much attention to when I first heard them nearly 30 years ago. And I had a good friend in college, one of my main smoking buddies, who was really into Jethro Tull so I heard them alot when we were tooting up in his dorm room. Back to Joni. Most of her records cannot be fully assessed after one or two or even three listenings, imo. I also think that the diversity of her interests have led her into musical waters over the years that some people who normally love her work just don't care for. We all have our personal likes and dislikes and if you don't care for electronic music and you like acoustic guitar or more traditional rock, you won't like the sound of 'Dog Eat Dog' or 'Chalkmark'. But that doesn't necessarily mean those are not good records. For me, Joni puts her own personal stamp on anything she does and that will always make whatever she does interesting. I knew a woman who was a big fan of Joni's. Back in the 70s I played 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns' for her for the first time and her reaction was 'it's just not Joni.' At the time I was almost inclined to agree with her. She had followed Joni for much longer than I had and 'THOSL' had an almost detached quality to it in comparison to say, 'Blue' or even 'Court and Spark'. But I never dismissed 'THOSL' outright and years later I began to think of it as an innovative masterpiece. I feel the same way about 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'. Recently, I've begun to see 'Dog Eat Dog' as another work of Joni genius as I hear the intricacies of the arrangements on the Geffen Box Set remastered release. 'Travelogue' reveals a bit more of itself to me with each listen. Savoring Joni is one of life's pleasures and I am forever grateful for the priveledge. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:08:14 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Joan Baez njc I just saw Joan Baez sing 'Diamonds and Rust' on PBS's Soundstage. Part of the lyric went like this: (spoken: Get this) 40 years ago I had bought you some cufflinks You brought me something (spoken: trouble) We both know what memories can bring They bring diamonds and rust and then the last line of the song: And if you're offering me diamonds and rust I'll take the Grammy. Well *I* was amused. Mark E. in Seattle wondering if I cut a big smelly cyber fart in my last lengthy email.... in the words of Grace Slick: The tongues of some men Are made of silence And your eyes will listen ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #40 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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