From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #35 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 26 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 035 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc [Smurf ] RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc ["Ric] Re: Peeling back another layer? [colin ] Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [Jenn] Judee Sill (NJC) [tinkersown@comcast.net] RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [Smur] NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [SCJo] Re: NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC [Smurf ] Re: NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni tune heard on CBC 50 tracks today ["Michael O'Malley" ] cliches? ["David Henderson" ] RE: Peeling back another layer? [Catherine McKay ] Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [Cath] RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [Cath] Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc [Smur] Re: cliches? [Mike Friedman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:22:50 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc Man, oh man ... RUFUS! As in "Want One" and "Want Two." It has been about 30 years since I've been so impressed with a singer/songwriter/performer. Thank you, Lord, for Rufus Wainwright. I will never forget this morning's train ride to work with "Old Whore's Diet" blasting in my Walkman. - --Smurf, who has no cell phone, but if he did it would be on "vibrate" Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:25:34 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc Man, oh man ... RUFUS! As in "Want One" and "Want Two." It has been about 30 years since I've been so impressed with a singer/songwriter/performer. Thank you, Lord, for Rufus Wainwright. I will never forget this morning's train ride to work with "Old Whore's Diet" blasting in my Walkman. - --Smurf, who has no cell phone, but if he did it would be on "vibrate" Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:25:59 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc Man, oh man ... RUFUS! As in "Want One" and "Want Two." It has been about 30 years since I've been so impressed with a singer/songwriter/performer. Thank you, Lord, for Rufus Wainwright. I will never forget this morning's train ride to work with "Old Whore's Diet" blasting in my Walkman. - --Smurf, who has no cell phone, but if he did it would be on "vibrate" Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:35:27 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc His The One You Love from Want Two should be a #1 radio hit. What a song! Jerry, longtime Rufus fan np: Bebel Gilberto - Bossanova > Man, oh man ... RUFUS! As in "Want One" and "Want Two." > > It has been about 30 years since I've been so impressed with a > singer/songwriter/performer. > > Thank you, Lord, for Rufus Wainwright. I will never forget this morning's > train ride to work with "Old Whore's Diet" blasting in my Walkman. > > --Smurf, who has no cell phone, but if he did it would be on "vibrate" > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:37:25 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NOW: Albums that are growing on you -- njc > --Smurf, who has no cell phone, but if he did it would be on "vibrate" I think it is on "repeat!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:34:04 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: First Al the Great, then Tinky Winky, now THIS!!!!! (njc, 6969) Colin wrote great words of wisdom: If we allowed people of either sex just to be, we could save ourselves a lot of grief. Very well said Colin! Excellent post! Love, Laura Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:06:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: First Al the Great, then Tinky Winky, now THIS!!!!! (njc, 6969) McMillan Brad wrote: > The only man a man is allowed to hug is his >father, but not for too long. Where did we get so uptight????? >brad > > Homophobia is rife and deeply entrenched. Thus men are taught from a very early age to suppress all emotions and behaviour that is considered 'feminine'. Both men and women do this to their sons and whilst women berate men for being the way they are, they have much responsibilty for teaching boys to become the way they don't want them to be as men. Girls are taught similarly although the pressure and censure does not seem as extreme. If we continue to teach boys to suppress their feminine parts, their tenderness, and encourage them to be agressive, we will continue to have the problems we have in our societies. I was appalled a few years ago to hear a lesbian friend of mine berating her son fo being a 'girl' and crying!!!!! One fo the reasons that gay men, in general, have more female freinds than male, is that as a gay man it is very difficult to have a friendship with a str8 man. They are too conscious of our diffrence and are often petrified that others will think they too are gay by associating with us. The whole gender thing is rather ridiculous. On the knitting list I mentioned, they are discussing this very thing. Someone said 'men are supposed to be men'. Of course the only thing that defines a man or a woman is their biology. The rest is just fancy and ideas forced upon us all by society. If we allowed people of either sex just to be, we could save ourselves a lot of grief. - - -- bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:37:23 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: copying rights, njc Catherine wrote: P.S. Please don't copy the whole digest into your post. People hate that. Catherine!!!! LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL From a fellow puker when force fed digest... Don't make me laugh when I'm drinking grape juice... gasp gasp choke choke! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:43:57 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: jonifest A woman in waiting for her woman wrote: >Jonifest is wherever two are more are gathered in her >name. Loved that Catherine. Hi Woman, You ought to love it because your house is a pretty much a constant jonifest by this definition. I think you two should petition your city to change the name of your street to Sisotowbell Lane. It fits the atmosphere much better than the current name, and we need a "real" street named that so it doesn't just have to be an acronym. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:17:04 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc the blue guy said: <> to which Jerry replied: <> now me: euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 discs, even! - and i just can't get there. he's WAY too theatrical for me, and that's nuts, since i LOVE Brian Protheroe. what am i missing? signed - wain"wrong" in alabama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:42:38 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc Cynthia Vickery wrote: > euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 > discs, even! - and i just can't get there. he's WAY too > theatrical for me, and that's nuts, since i LOVE Brian > Protheroe. what am i missing? I have to agree with Cindy. I just don't get Rufus. I find him whiny and schmaltzy. I think his father has loads more talent than he. Help explain his appeal to us non-believers. Then I'll explain Dylan to you. :-) Les NP: LOUDON Wainwright III - "Rufus is a Tit Man" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:45:07 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc > euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 discs, > even! - and i just can't get there. Neither can I. Don't know what it is, but Rufus just doesn't do it for me. Lori, not talking about the Rufus w/Chaka Khan ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:01:28 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc Cindy writes: > euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 discs, > even! - and i just can't get there. he's WAY too theatrical for > me, and that's nuts, since i LOVE Brian Protheroe. what am i > missing? > I'm going to have to chime in on Rufus too! I've tried to like his singing, but I'd rather stick Colin's knitting needles in my ear rather than hear Rufus sing. Like Lori said, give me the Rufus with "Tell Me Something Good" Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:02:27 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Travelogue Well well well, What to say about travelogue. My wife just bought it for me for Xmas after the 8 or 9th hint. I think most of it sounds great. Some of the songs (like Circle Game) sound a bit fresh, especially slowed down. It sounds a bit more sensitive and lush. I don't understand Sex Kills very much. It sounds too much like the original to me. I think there would have been so many other songs that would have been good candidates. I also must add how much I love her voice as it has aged. She sounds like an old jazz singer, and sings like one too. The more I hear it, the more I like it. Amelia melts me. As does a few others. I think this is my 3rd post Who cares??? ta ta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:02:44 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc I usually agree with Jerry Notaro in most matters of taste, but I'm with Les and Cynthia on Rufus. And I agree with Les about his father, to which I would add his mother among the more talented. And Aunt Anna, too. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Les Irvin Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:43 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc Cynthia Vickery wrote: > euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 > discs, even! - and i just can't get there. he's WAY too > theatrical for me, and that's nuts, since i LOVE Brian > Protheroe. what am i missing? I have to agree with Cindy. I just don't get Rufus. I find him whiny and schmaltzy. I think his father has loads more talent than he. Help explain his appeal to us non-believers. Then I'll explain Dylan to you. :-) Les NP: LOUDON Wainwright III - "Rufus is a Tit Man" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:06:01 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? Steven Polifka wrote: >What is the crap about DED? Why do you folks get your underwear in knots >over this? >She wasn't boo-hooing? She didn't have heartache so you couldn't >relate? > >She had heartache, alright. Just listen. It was about religion, >government, big business, >the general population's cavalier attitude about the planet. And she >was pissed off. >Anger just covers up a lot of sadness. > > > I agree with you Steven. I think DED is a great album and one where she shows she can think and feel for something other than herself. I love her music, as you know, but have never understood why she is considered so deep and meaningful when she sings mostly of her personal pain. It's not as if no one else has felt this and she isn't unique in writing about it. One could even say she was just self indulgent and made prententiousness a new art form and fooled people into thinking it was somehow deep and soulful and new. Yes she has a way with words, even if their meaning is often lost, but her feelings and experience are hardly unique. Her music on the other is something diffrent, groundbreaking and unique and for that she is celebrated, rightly so. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:00:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc Oh dear. Looks like no one is feeling the Rufus looove. I really like his voice and I'm a sucker for his 70s-ish singer/songwriter musical influences. Love his rich, sometimes outlandish arrangements. What clinched it for me was a concert of his I saw on TRIO (which Direct TV just dropped from it's lineup. sniff sniff) He was a rock star. Loved it. But yes, it was very theatrical. Refreshing though, as I'm so tired of the same ol' same old. Did anyone see 'The Aviator' both Rufus and Dad, Loudon, made cameo appearances. Jenny FMYFL@aol.com wrote: Cindy writes: > euwww. i've tried and tried to like Rufus - i bought 2 discs, > even! - and i just can't get there. he's WAY too theatrical for > me, and that's nuts, since i LOVE Brian Protheroe. what am i > missing? > I'm going to have to chime in on Rufus too! I've tried to like his singing, but I'd rather stick Colin's knitting needles in my ear rather than hear Rufus sing. Like Lori said, give me the Rufus with "Tell Me Something Good" Jimmy Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:51:54 +0000 From: tinkersown@comcast.net Subject: Judee Sill (NJC) Graham Browne wrote: >please has anyone heard of Judee Sill ?????? Yep. Really liked her a lot. Saw her perform once. *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@comcast.net "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc Les Irvin wrote: > I have to agree with Cindy. I just don't get Rufus. > I find him whiny and schmaltzy. So who the hell died and made you majordomo, pal? Oh ... Les! Hey! What are you doing posting here? FIrst of all, the 'whiny' thing. I know what you mean exactly. Rufus's whininess was a turnoff for me, but I got way past that somehow, much like the way many people get past THE MUCH MORE LEGENDARY WHININESS OF MR BOB DYLAN or the "screechy" sound Joni's voice had for most of her career. I like Rufus's voice just as it is now and I really like the way he uses it. I wanted to like him as an artist and a songwriter, but I was sure I'd never like his voice. I love his voice now. His voice goes very well with his lyrics, which are often every bit as witty as his father's, yet with an underlying truth and sadness to them that just makes you want to keel over and sob knowingly and long. Much like Joni's effect on people who really listen to her. He's a very good writer. And schmaltz? What's schmaltzy is a matter of opinion, Les, and I am sure my schmaltz-o-meter is pushed to its limit. But I find Rufus's, shall we say, 'elaborate musical productions', to be very funny and one of the things that makes him so endearing. He seems to me like a big kid putting on a show, and he loves doing it. There's much more to it that that, but that's it in a nutshell for me. Les also says: > Help explain his appeal to us non-believers. Then > I'll explain Dylan to you. :-) > Dylan, schmylan. Explain why nobody ever sings about soup! Truthfully, Dylan is part of my loose plan to really pay attention to singer/songwriters that people I like go nuts over. Rufus was number one, Dylan may be next. Les, if you can explain Dylan without having to kill yourself posting to your own list that loves you and worries about you every single day of your life, Mister Information Superhighway, I'd love to hear it. Another singer/songwriter I am planning to check out is Ani. Les, Cindy, Jimmi, Moe, Larry, CFT, John Boy and Baby Sully -- if you just try a little harder with Rufus you may be rewarded with a very talented artist who's probably gonna get you anyway somewhere down the line. It's not that hard to like him and his work, really. And don't forget, it took me 25 years to warm up to "Hejira." - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:28:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC Hi Jenny - I saw The Aviator and thought it was great - DiCaprio was simply amazing, I also loved Cate Blanchett's take on Katherine Hepburn, although the reviews I read weren't that crazy about her. Speaking of which, both of them are nominated for Oscars, as is the picture and Scorcese. Maybe he'll finally win an Oscar - not sure that he deserves it for this but he should have won one by now for his other work so he may get it anyway. Bob NP: Bright Eyes, "Time Code" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:40:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc **Another singer/songwriter I am planning to check out is Ani. I'm no Rufus fan either....but I have to admit that I haven't really given him a fair shake, I've only heard one of his CD's but it was so hard to take I knew he wasn't for me. But his "Want Two" is really showing up on so many 'best of' lists I'm tempted to give him another try. Speaking of Ani, her "Knuckle Down" came out today, I picked it up, natch. If you want, here's the link to (4) songs you can hear in their entirety, and you can check out the lyrics to ALL of them: _http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/knuckledown/index.asp_ (http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/knuckledown/index.asp) Now I guess her voice is an acquired taste - even if you don't acquire it, her writing is so damn great. The very first lines of the very first song on the record sound like something Joni could have penned: that's just my cowgirl alter-ego riding on her bar room bull dripping with the sweat of irony as the cowboys whoop and drool shooting glances at the mirror to see if her scar is showing she is truly going nowhere tonight Bob NP: Bright Eyes, "Arc of Time (Time Code)" PS: Don't give Les TOO much grief - at least he didn't attach a whole digest to his post! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:53:44 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC Muller wrote: > Scorcese. Maybe he'll finally win an Oscar - > not sure that he deserves it > for this but he should have won one by now for his > other work so he may get > it anyway. Bastards will probably give it to John Wayne for "True Grit" again. - --Smurf, who, when he says, "Are you tawkin' to me?" is proabably asking because he's hard of hearing and noticed that your lips happened to be moving NPIMH: Les's quandery: Rufus Plays Dylan -- free! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:06:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Aviator & Oscars NJC **Bastards will probably give it to John Wayne for "True Grit" again. Don't bring that up - you know I'm still holding a grudge. Anyway, Wayne rec'd no nominations, his having assumed room temp a long time ago probably working against him. The REAL Director nominees are: Taylor Hackford, Ray Martin Scorsese, Aviator Clint Eastwood, Million Dollar Baby Mike Leigh, Vera Drake Alexander Payne, Sideways Bob NP: Bright Eyes, "Light Pollution" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:22:36 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Joni tune heard on CBC 50 tracks today Great news, a Joni tune from the 60's showed up on CBC's 50 tracks today! Lorraine Segato, former lead singer of the 80's band, Parachute Club (anyone remember that 80's anthem, Rise Up?), put forth BSN as an essential track candidate. Basically she built her case around the fact that it's a classic, has been covererd X times, simple production values, open tuning, brilliant lyrics, stark honesty. We were treated to the Clouds version. There was dissention however. Another panelist, music critic John Einerson, felt BSN was the wrong pick for an essential 60's Joni track, he called it ``light fluff (!)`` in comparison to Circle Game, which he felt was the more relevant track for the 60's. Segato came back with a rebuttal. So BSN is probably going to be our token Joni song on this list. A no-brainer, to be sure. The host asked for listener feedback about which song is the better candidate, but he's leaning toward BSN, me thinks. You can catch it here. http://www.cbc.ca/50tracks/index.html Cheers! Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:30:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Albums that grew on you --- Garret wrote: > That's interesting as Blue seems to be the one that > people get. I loved it > immediately, with the exception of Richard which i > took as self-indulgent, > tune-less dirge. Dirge? have you been talking to my mother (beyond the grave)? She thought all of Joni's songs were dirges. OK, back to your regular discussion now. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:36:02 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: cliches? >>>> From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Peeling back another layer? >Even though I had / have most of the same political positions as Joni, the >songs on DED are full of clichis and not exactly sophisticated political >analysis--even for pop songs. I often cringe with embarrassment listening >to, the way I cringe when I hear Joni protest that she's no feminist in >interviews. Coupled with the ill-chosen guest stars and synth-pop >arrangements it's just not that good: <<<<<< That's pretty harsh, guy, and I completely disagree. I don't think Joni's political positions and the way she expressed them were cliches or unsophisticated at the time, in 1985. They may be a little dated now. Who else, with such a broad reach, was tackling these issues in the mid-80's and with such intelligence? Yes, it was the year of We Are The World. But it was also the year of Back to the Future, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, and Family Ties, and a year after Reagan's reelection. I think she should be commended for bringing these issues to the fore. I don't think the issues of money and religion, white collar crime, and the subliminal effect advertising has on our values were as commonly discussed or acknowledged back then. I think Ethiopia, Dog Eat Dog and The Three Great Stimulants deliver haunting and powerful messages and great music. Good Friends and Shiny Toys rock! We don't get to rock out with Joni enough! I'll get off my soapbox now. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:11:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Peeling back another layer? --- Steven Polifka wrote: > Now about those lyrics in Fiction: > They sound like most ads- quick quips or catchy > phrases with no > substance. > Perfect. She uses what she hears and relays it back. > Then she weighs > out (percieved) truth against (percieved) fiction. > What is what? She > left it to the listener to decide. > > And on Impossible Dreamer... Impossibley cryptic. > However, > day-for-night is a Hollywood term. They shoot a > scene in the day and use > filters to darken it to give the appearance of > night. Just who was she > singing to in that verse that she would use that > reference, or was > that evening so surreal that it reminded her of a > movie? To me, DED was stripped down lyrically, deliberately. It was a reaction to the materialism of the 80s, so gone was the lyrical poetry of previous albums. The music is mostly harsh-sounding and the words Joni uses are harsh too, with a lot of one-syllable words and harsher consonants and a lot of staccato both in the music and her delivery of the words. "Impossible dreamer" is airy, both musically and lyrically - it feels like there's a lot of space between the words, maybe because we're more used to Joni packing in a lot of lyrics in a small space. It's not for nothing that it's the second last song in the album and it's the bridge between the harshness of the songs before it and the final song, "Lucky girl" which, like the opening song, "Good friends" is optimistic. It continues and synthesizes the harsh imagery of consumerism vs the starving masses, but lifts up from there to the positive image of the impossible dreamer seen in a blink in the darkest part of the night and in the brightest part of the day. An artist can paint with many layers of thick oil paint, using huge brushes, palette (sp?) knives and all that, or can do a simple line drawing with pencil or marker, and I think that's what Joni was doing with DED. Just something that occurred to me now. "Impossible dreamer" conjures both John Lennon and Martin Luther King. And you know there may be more... ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:33:25 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > Oh dear. Looks like no one is feeling the Rufus > looove. > > I really like his voice and I'm a sucker for his > 70s-ish singer/songwriter musical influences. Love > his rich, sometimes outlandish arrangements. What > clinched it for me was a concert of his I saw on > TRIO (which Direct TV just dropped from it's lineup. > sniff sniff) He was a rock star. Loved it. But > yes, it was very theatrical. Refreshing though, as > I'm so tired of the same ol' same old. > I love him too and I'm not even going to try to persuade anyone else. I think Jenny's description sums it up for me. I don't think people should try so hard to *get* someone, or to like them. It's not an intellectual thing, so there's no talking anyone into it. You either like someone's style, or you don't. You may grow to like it later on, but it will be because it affects you on some level, not because someone talked you into it. And I will NEVER get Dylan and no one need bother trying to talk me into it, because it's a waste of breath. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:38:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc --- Smurf wrote: > His voice goes very well with his lyrics, which are > often every bit as witty as his father's, yet with > an > underlying truth and sadness to them that just makes > you want to keel over and sob knowingly and long. > Much > like Joni's effect on people who really listen to > her. > He's a very good writer. > > And schmaltz? What's schmaltzy is a matter of > opinion, > Les, and I am sure my schmaltz-o-meter is pushed to > its limit. But I find Rufus's, shall we say, > 'elaborate musical productions', to be very funny > and > one of the things that makes him so endearing. He > seems to me like a big kid putting on a show, and he > loves doing it. > Yep. He can be schmaltzy but he also seems to be mocking himself while doing so. And all of the rest of what Smurfadelica said. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:49:42 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NOW - Rufus... WAS- Albums that are growing on you... STILL njc CFT writes: > I don't think people should try so hard to *get* > someone, or to like them. It's not an intellectual > thing, so there's no talking anyone into it. You > either like someone's style, or you don't. You may > grow to like it later on, but it will be because it > affects you on some level, not because someone > talked > you into it. > On one hand I agree, CFT, but on the other I know that I am often intrigued by what other people 'get' in an artist or a work of art that I when I don't see it or even care for what I do see. As for "you either like someone's style, or you don't," I don't think it's that easy either. Tom Waits, for example. I love him and don't care much for him. But I am intrigued by what other people like about him. I think this is probably the case with a lot of singer/songwriters because I can think of lots of them who have voices that other people often comment upon negatively. Like Joni's. - --Smurf, off to sleepy gnome man's land __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:52:35 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: cliches? "Shiny toys.... I LOVE MY PORSCHE!" That never fails to crack me up. On Jan 25, 2005, at 7:36 PM, David Henderson wrote: >>>>> From: "Richard Flynn" > Subject: RE: Peeling back another layer? > >> Even though I had / have most of the same political positions as >> Joni, the >> songs on DED are full of clichis and not exactly sophisticated >> political >> analysis--even for pop songs. I often cringe with embarrassment >> listening >> to, the way I cringe when I hear Joni protest that she's no feminist >> in >> interviews. Coupled with the ill-chosen guest stars and synth-pop >> arrangements it's just not that good: <<<<<< > > That's pretty harsh, guy, and I completely disagree. I don't think > Joni's > political positions and the way she expressed them were cliches or > unsophisticated at the time, in 1985. They may be a little dated now. > Who > else, with such a broad reach, was tackling these issues in the > mid-80's and > with such intelligence? Yes, it was the year of We Are The World. But > it > was also the year of Back to the Future, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, and > Family Ties, and a year after Reagan's reelection. I think she should > be > commended for bringing these issues to the fore. I don't think the > issues > of money and religion, white collar crime, and the subliminal effect > advertising has on our values were as commonly discussed or > acknowledged > back then. > > I think Ethiopia, Dog Eat Dog and The Three Great Stimulants deliver > haunting and powerful messages and great music. Good Friends and > Shiny Toys > rock! We don't get to rock out with Joni enough! > > I'll get off my soapbox now. > > David > > ======================================== "I was not always a bag lady, you know. I used to be a creative consultant. For big companies! Who do you think thought up the color scheme for Howard Johnson's? At the time, no one was using orange and aqua in the same room together. With fried clams." - --Trudy (Lily Tomlin) from "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #35 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)