From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #27 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 21 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 027 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) [tantra_apso ] Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Em ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) [colin ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: dealing with everything, JC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) [Gary Zack ] re: John Gorka (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) [tantra_apso ] vljc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Em ] Re: dealing with everything, JC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Vote Mingus! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Smurf ] Re: John Gorka (njc) [Smurf ] Re: Vote Mingus! [John Sprackland ] Re: Vote Mingus! [John Sprackland ] Carole and Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: John Gorka (njc) -- Think I'll go drown myself in a bowl of Stranger Hair Pasta [Justalittleb] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: John Gorka ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Joe Boyd on London ["Paul Castle" ] (NJC) Test [Lori Fye ] Um corvo preto, volando (sjc) [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] "Over The Rhine" in MD, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] First Al the Great, then Tinky Winky, now THIS!!!!! (njc, 6969) [Justalit] Re: Um corvo preto, volando (sjc), now NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Mitchell, 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] (was) Um corvo preto, (now) A little nellie music [Smurf Subject: Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) Justalittlebreen@aol.com wrote: > >Aluminum weas discovered by a Sir H. Davy, c. 1812 > not boring at all Walt. Thank you. I am often amazed at where my TIC posts lead. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:00:17 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: The all-chocolate diet... (njc) Steven Polifka wrote: >And I was just gettin' excited about the all-chocolate diet!!! > >In Carb Cop's defense, I've dropped 15 points of my bad cholesterol and >gained 5 in the good. >within a year. > > > me too. low carb has proven to be the wya to go. it isn't 'new' either. It's the way we all used to eat until this last century where we have been plied with cereals and sugar and junk food. Even for people without a weight problem, low carb is good re avoiding heart disease, diabetes etc. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:55:03 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Vote Mingus! Hi list, Just been watching the WOHAM documentary (I'm just sick enough to be off work, but not REALLY sick, if you know what I mean!) and it made me so angry to be reminded of the critical mauling that was given to 'Mingus' and how it knocked Joni back. I believe that if Mingus had been received as the masterpiece that it is, Joni would have continued along a creative path that she had only just begun to explore and would still be running now. Instead we got the backlash of the stodgy 'Wild Things Run Fast' and the comparatively safe output that followed. It took Joni nearly 10 years to get over that and come back with another album that was true to her soul ('Night Ride Home'). And then I checked in to the jmdl album polls and sadly discovered that Mingus has been rated as Joni's least popular proper album release for the last two years. Below 'Wild Things'? Below 'Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm'? jmdl, I despair of you! I cannot bear the idea that Joni must think that even we - he most devoted followers - are as tone-deaf as the critics who gave Mingus such a rough ride. Please, get the album out again now (and shame on you if you don't even own it!) then go back to the album poll and cast your votes. Vote Mingus! Yeah! My top five: 1. The Hissing of Summer Lawns (The first Joni album I ever heard so it will always be special) 2. For The Roses 3. Blue 4. Mingus 5. Night Ride Home John Southport, UK NP: Night Ride Home... on vinyl, so much more satisfying! - -- Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:48:20 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) --- tantra_apso wrote: >I am often amazed > at where my TIC > posts lead. > You have a tic? Is it allulilum-related? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:22:01 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Vote Mingus! --- John Sprackland wrote: > > I believe that if Mingus had been received as the > masterpiece that it > is, Joni would have continued along a creative path > that she had only > just begun to explore and would still be running > now. Maybe it's just me, but I can't see Joni being so put off by anything the critics had to say about it that she would just quit, although I'm sure it hurt a lot. I figured it had more to do with losing Mingus (the man) and not being strong enough jazz-wise to go there on her own. And Mingus was just so original and different that I can't think of anyone else who does quite that kind of music. It would be a tough act to follow. I don't know. I'm no jazz expert but, when I finally did give a listen to Mingus' own work, I was blown away. Having said that, Joni has continued to collaborate with jazz musicians and other jazz-like musicians up to her most recent stuff, so there is definitely a consistent jazz link. > And then I checked in to the jmdl album polls and > sadly discovered that > Mingus has been rated as Joni's least popular proper > album release for > the last two years. Below 'Wild Things'? Below > 'Chalk Mark in a > Rainstorm'? jmdl, I despair of you! I cannot bear > the idea that Joni > must think that even we - he most devoted followers > - are as tone-deaf > as the critics who gave Mingus such a rough ride. Hmm. I've never voted in one of those polls and I don't like to participate in "best of..." lists because they're just too fluid for me. How many people voted on them, and do they have to be jmdl members, or can anyone vote? Can you vote more than once? As far as Joni's stuff is concerned, 'Mingus' would definitely be right up there, if not at the top, then certainly very close, and certainly far above 'Wild things' and 'Chalk Mark'. But that's about as far as I'm willing to go because, otherwise, it means creating some kind of "best of" list . ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 04:39:19 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) oh yeah! I thought something was diff! told ya its been like 15 years since i heard it! :) Em - --- Smurf wrote: > Em wrote: > > > I first listened to "Angel with your Hair" also from > > that Legacy Cd > > > I clicked on the link to Gorka's discography earlier > and you people -- are ya listenin', Walt? -- are all > on drugs! > > I think the song you're talking about is called > "Stranger with Your Hair," which makes a lot more > sense to me. Angel hair is a kind of pasta. > > As my new hero Rufus says, "God knows what all these > new drugs do." > > --Smurf > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:00:59 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) > My husband and I ran into him a few years ago at a mall. He used to > volunteer at a folk club around here, and my husband knew him from those > days. I didn't really believe my husband was that cool. Well, he's not > that cool, actually, but he DID know John Gorka. Anyone who marries a librarian is Ultra Cool! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:16:05 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) Catherine McKay wrote: > --- tantra_apso wrote: > > >>I am often amazed >>at where my TIC >>posts lead. >> >> >> > >You have a tic? Is it allulilum-related? > > > > yes sometimes but that is not what i was referring. TIC is yet another acronym. have a guess? - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:27:34 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: re: John Gorka (njc) Kate wrote: i agree with jenny's picks.. i don't have all of his albums either but have bought several (usually at his shows) because of certain songs on them that are stellar... another one to make you sob in a global kind of way is "Let Them In". He tours a lot & is very accessible & yes a very very funny & very nice guy. He even sang backing vocals on a friend of mine's cd. I think our lovely Anne was in a songwriting workshop with him. Hello Kate! Yes, thank you for remembering. I was in a weekly songwriters' workshop for a few years. The idea was to write a song a week. Kind of daunting, but very good to keep those writing chops limber. (mixed metaphors, I know...) Anyway, Geoff Bartley was the founder of the workshop. He was there every week. Bob Franke was there when he wasn't on the road. And John Gorka dropped by whenever he was in town. (He and Geoff were/are great friends. They collaborated on the song "Raven in the Storm" which I got to hear a day or so after they wrote it.) John was very nice, and very respectful of us budding writers. He was quiet. He could be funny, but didn't have the sort of energy that he has on stage. By that I mean that he never tried to be in the spotlight. He was genuinely interested in the writing process. He always seemed to me that he felt he was there at the workshop to learn just as much as we all were. I do remember the first time he came to the workshop (which was always in a friend's living room.) I'd been writing up a storm, a complete song every week, for weeks and weeks. But that Wednesday night rolled around and I had two lines, just the kernel of an idea. And not very good at that. So I get to the workshop and who's there but John Gorka. I'm thinking "Damn! This is the first time in weeks, manybe months, that I don't have a song." But later someone commented on a song I'd presented a few weeks before and everyone asked me to do it, so I didn't look like a complete idiot. Ah, yes. That was an exciting time. Well, like a cat, I seem to have multiple lives to live. Well, while I'm thinking back to then, I'll share a John Gorka/Shawn Colvin story. They were both in Jack Hardy's songwriting workshop in New York for a while. (In fact, it was after Jack Hardy visited that Geoff decided to start the workshop in the Boston/Cambridge area.) Anyway, John brought the song "I Know" to the workshop. A couple of weeks later, Shawn brought in "I Don't Know Why." She couldn't come up with an idea, but she remembered John's song. So she decided to use that as inspiration and do kind of the opposite. And that's why she wrote "I Don't Know Why." lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) Smurf wrote: I think the song you're talking about is called "Stranger with Your Hair," which makes a lot more sense to me. Angel hair is a kind of pasta. Oh details details... In our defense, there is a line in the song 'I heard an angel with your voice'. So we're not completely on drugs. Just a little stoned. JMo __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 The all-new My Yahoo!  What will yours do? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:07:36 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: dealing with everything, JC Bob wrote: Lord knows that Joni's work deals with everything, so why shouldn't we? Hi Bob! Yes! My experience is this list contains living Joni content in each of us. We've been affected by listening to, learning, and studying Joni's lyrics and music and by observing her art and persona. All of these have had an influence on my life in a very definite way, and I see that in other JMDLers too. The beauty of this list in my opinion is we live Joni as we express ourselves freely together. I usually do so with a Joni song in mind... "everyday, in every way." Speaking of Joni songs, I've been playing and singing Sisotowbell Lane a lot of late, really getting more and more into the song. Is there an actual Sisotowbell Lane, and if so, where? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:15:58 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) >>Colin wrote: >> >>I am often amazed >>at where my TIC >>posts lead. >> >> >>Then Catherine wrote: >> >>You have a tic? Is it allulilum-related? >> And Colin replied: >yes sometimes but that is not what i was referring. TIC is yet another >acronym. have a guess? > Now me: Hmm...tongue in cheek? Best, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) what if we changed this: Drive your bargains Push your papers Win your medals F_ck your angels Don't it leave you on the empty side hmmmmmm....sometimes strangers *can* be angels... :P em - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > Smurf wrote: > I think the song you're talking about is called "Stranger with Your > Hair," which makes a lot more sense to me. Angel hair is a kind of > pasta. > > Oh details details... > > In our defense, there is a line in the song 'I heard an angel with > your voice'. So we're not completely on drugs. Just a little > stoned. > > JMo > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > The all-new My Yahoo!  What will yours do? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:13:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: re: John Gorka (njc) Wow Anne, a song a week. That workshop sounds really wonderful. Like songwriting boot camp. I did a weekend workshop with Bob Franke that was very valuable. I really loved his view of songwriting and how important he believes community is. How great that he and John frequented the group. That must have been quite a time. Anne, are you still writing and singing? Jenny Anne Sandstrom wrote: Hello Kate! Yes, thank you for remembering. I was in a weekly songwriters' workshop for a few years. The idea was to write a song a week. Kind of daunting, but very good to keep those writing chops limber. (mixed metaphors, I know...) Anyway, Geoff Bartley was the founder of the workshop. He was there every week. Bob Franke was there when he wasn't on the road. And John Gorka dropped by whenever he was in town. (He and Geoff were/are great friends. They collaborated on the song "Raven in the Storm" which I got to hear a day or so after they wrote it.) John was very nice, and very respectful of us budding writers. He was quiet. He could be funny, but didn't have the sort of energy that he has on stage. By that I mean that he never tried to be in the spotlight. He was genuinely interested in the writing process. He always seemed to me that he felt he was there at the workshop to learn just as much as we all were. I do remember the first time he came to the workshop (which was always in a friend's living room.) I'd been writing up a storm, a complete song every week, for weeks and weeks. But that Wednesday night rolled around and I had two lines, just the kernel of an idea. And not very good at that. So I get to the workshop and who's there but John Gorka. I'm thinking "Damn! This is the first time in weeks, manybe months, that I don't have a song." But later someone commented on a song I'd presented a few weeks before and everyone asked me to do it, so I didn't look like a complete idiot. Ah, yes. That was an exciting time. Well, like a cat, I seem to have multiple lives to live. Well, while I'm thinking back to then, I'll share a John Gorka/Shawn Colvin story. They were both in Jack Hardy's songwriting workshop in New York for a while. (In fact, it was after Jack Hardy visited that Geoff decided to start the workshop in the Boston/Cambridge area.) Anyway, John brought the song "I Know" to the workshop. A couple of weeks later, Shawn brought in "I Don't Know Why." She couldn't come up with an idea, but she remembered John's song. So she decided to use that as inspiration and do kind of the opposite. And that's why she wrote "I Don't Know Why." lots of love Anne Meet the all-new My Yahoo!  Try it today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:22:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Cover King Bob>>one of the few times, if not THE only time that Joni's style coincided with the zeitgeist.<< I would say that her early work coincided nicely with the zeitgeist if I understand that word correctly... I'm not talking top ten hits but what the majority of people I knew were listening to- csn, james taylor, richie havens, etc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:27:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Songwriters, njc at this point >yes & our very own Steve Culson< Ack, slippery fingers I meant Steve DULSON...sorry steve! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:22:12 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Alumium, Aluminum, Aluminium, let's call the whole thing offium. (njc) Gary Zack wrote: > > Now me: > > Hmm...tongue in cheek? > > Best, > > Gary bingo. tho it appears the tongue mostly misses completely..... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:31:00 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) Em sez: << hmmmmmm....sometimes strangers *can* be angels... >> Uh-huh. And sometimes Zeus appears to mortals disguised as a beggar. Again ... angel hair is spaghetti. J-Mo adds: << In our defense, there is a line in the song 'I heard an angel with your voice'. So we're not completely on drugs. Just a little stoned. >> You people will justify anything with any excuse as long as your hunger for horse, maryjane, or blow gets satisfied. --Smurf, who must have accidentally joined the substance abuse Joni list Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:34:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: vljc >A dismal day, the inauguration of it. Something is not right here.< Agreed... >Where is our champion? I hope he or she appears soon or we are lost and still they die for 'freedom'< She- Barbara Boxer the senator from California is doing it & has been for some time-- she voted against the war, stood up as the ONLY senator to challenge the 2004 vote & recently challenged C Rice at the hearing (or whatever it is called)... you'd think more dems would be on her page but they are not which makes her actions all the more courageous ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:40:16 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) - --- Smurf wrote: > Uh-huh. And sometimes Zeus appears to mortals disguised as a beggar. yeah, you know, I love the way they used to mix it up back then. Like I just adore it that the Minotaur's father was a "white bull" and his mother was either Athena or one of the other major goddesses. Anyone know how she ended up "doing" a white bull that day? was he a stranger? a well hung stranger I ass-ume? So, I hope my post *this* time takes on an "I could be wrong and could you enlighten me" tone right from the 'git - as I have been inaccurate all week. Must be the aluminum... Uh yeah I agree that stranger works waayyyyyyyy better in the Gorka song, and I'm glad, Smurf, you pointed what it was that seemed to rob a bit of its edge. I just forgot. :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:45:31 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: dealing with everything, JC LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of Joni songs, I've been playing and singing Sisotowbell > Lane a > lot of late, really getting more and more into the song. Is there > an actual Sisotowbell Lane, and if so, where? Guess what, Laura? Sisotowbell is an ACRONYM! Somehow in spite of troubles ours will be ever lasting love. I kid you not. Take that, Catherine! M E I S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:56:04 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Vote Mingus! Catherine McKay wrote: > > Maybe it's just me, but I can't see Joni being so put > off by anything the critics had to say about it that > she would just quit, although I'm sure it hurt a lot. > I figured it had more to do with losing Mingus (the > man) and not being strong enough jazz-wise to go there > on her own.> > Having said that, Joni has continued to collaborate > with jazz musicians and other jazz-like musicians up > to her most recent stuff, so there is definitely a > consistent jazz link. Mingus is a bit of an anomaly in Joni's catalogue. Except for two songs, Joni only wrote the words and the music was written by Mingus. It is a collaborative effort in a musical form that she was really only a novice in. I don't think she probably would have chosen to pursue pure jazz if the record had gotten a better reception from the public and the critics. Joni is more interested in creating new hybrids. She incorporated what she learned making Mingus into everything that followed. And again, at the risk of sounding like a broken vinyl sound recording receptacle, I think what followed Mingus has a lot of value to it. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:00:31 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) Em wrote: I love the way they used to mix it up back then. Like I just adore it that the Minotaur's father was a "white bull" and his mother was either Athena or one of the other major goddesses. Anyone know how she ended up "doing" a white bull that day? was he a stranger? a well hung stranger I ass-ume? Here's the scoop on that: << (Historical myth) The Minotaur was the offspring of the Queen Pasiphae and the Bull of Poseiden. Her husband, King Minos, had been given control of the oceans around Crete by the divine right of the sea-god Poseiden. To show his appreciation, Minos promised to sacrifice the first bull he saw to the sea-god, knowing full well that he did not have one. Poseiden then allowed one to appear, a great white one, but Minos kept it as a gift to himself rather than sacrifice it as promised. Angered, Poseiden instructed Eros, the god of love, to smite Pasiphae with a love for the great bull. She instructed Daedalus, the royal artisan, to create a hollow wooden cow that she could enter to admire the bull up close. From within it, she became pregnant by the bull which was later captured as the seventh labor of Hercules and taken to Greece. >> (From http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/minotaur.htm ) A wooden cow? Hmm. Sounds desperate to me. And as for Joni content, Daedalus was, of course, Icarus's old man --Smurf, a Taurus because he was born on Norwegian Independence Day, wishes Eros would smite some poor bastard with love for this bull Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:01:45 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) Em wrote: I love the way they used to mix it up back then. Like I just adore it that the Minotaur's father was a "white bull" and his mother was either Athena or one of the other major goddesses. Anyone know how she ended up "doing" a white bull that day? was he a stranger? a well hung stranger I ass-ume? Here's the scoop on that: << (Historical myth) The Minotaur was the offspring of the Queen Pasiphae and the Bull of Poseiden. Her husband, King Minos, had been given control of the oceans around Crete by the divine right of the sea-god Poseiden. To show his appreciation, Minos promised to sacrifice the first bull he saw to the sea-god, knowing full well that he did not have one. Poseiden then allowed one to appear, a great white one, but Minos kept it as a gift to himself rather than sacrifice it as promised. Angered, Poseiden instructed Eros, the god of love, to smite Pasiphae with a love for the great bull. She instructed Daedalus, the royal artisan, to create a hollow wooden cow that she could enter to admire the bull up close. From within it, she became pregnant by the bull which was later captured as the seventh labor of Hercules and taken to Greece. >> (From http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/minotaur.htm ) A wooden cow? Hmm. Sounds desperate to me. And as for Joni content, Daedalus was, of course, Icarus's old man --Smurf, a Taurus because he was born on Norwegian Independence Day, wishes Eros would smite some poor bastard with love for this bull Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:34:31 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Re: Vote Mingus! Hi Catherine, I appreciate your response.. and agree with everything you say! I share your suspicion of 'best of..' lists but still find them hard to resist. What I like about the jmdl album and song polls is that they are fluid; because the polls close and restart afresh each year they give a measure of the changing favour of Joni's work. You can vote for as many songs / albums as you want to show favour for and it seems that now you can vote more than once (I'm sure you could previously only vote once in the year but now it seems you can vote again after a month). And yes, you can only vote if you are registered with jmdl. Its kinda fun - I find I can only do it if I do it very fast, if I stop to think I'm done for! Regards John Southport, UK P.S. Who has heard Minnie Riperton's version of 'Woman of Heart and Mind'? I've only just discovered that she recorded it and I'm intrigued - - nice to find someone covering one of Joni's lesser known songs. Is it worth getting hold of? In message <20050121122201.59823.qmail@web14121.mail.yahoo.com>, Catherine McKay writes > --- John Sprackland >wrote: >> >> I believe that if Mingus had been received as the >> masterpiece that it >> is, Joni would have continued along a creative path >> that she had only >> just begun to explore and would still be running >> now. > >Maybe it's just me, but I can't see Joni being so put >off by anything the critics had to say about it that >she would just quit, although I'm sure it hurt a lot. >I figured it had more to do with losing Mingus (the >man) and not being strong enough jazz-wise to go there >on her own. And Mingus was just so original and >different that I can't think of anyone else who does >quite that kind of music. It would be a tough act to >follow. I don't know. I'm no jazz expert but, when I >finally did give a listen to Mingus' own work, I was >blown away. > >Having said that, Joni has continued to collaborate >with jazz musicians and other jazz-like musicians up >to her most recent stuff, so there is definitely a >consistent jazz link. > >> And then I checked in to the jmdl album polls and >> sadly discovered that >> Mingus has been rated as Joni's least popular proper >> album release for >> the last two years. Below 'Wild Things'? Below >> 'Chalk Mark in a >> Rainstorm'? jmdl, I despair of you! I cannot bear >> the idea that Joni >> must think that even we - he most devoted followers >> - are as tone-deaf >> as the critics who gave Mingus such a rough ride. > >Hmm. I've never voted in one of those polls and I >don't like to participate in "best of..." lists >because they're just too fluid for me. How many people >voted on them, and do they have to be jmdl members, or >can anyone vote? Can you vote more than once? > >As far as Joni's stuff is concerned, 'Mingus' would >definitely be right up there, if not at the top, then >certainly very close, and certainly far above 'Wild >things' and 'Chalk Mark'. But that's about as far as >I'm willing to go because, otherwise, it means >creating some kind of "best of" list . > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca - -- Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:47:52 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Re: Vote Mingus! Interesting, this question of Joni 'only' writing the words. I find that Joni, like Morrissey, is an artist whose words and vocal style are so overwhelming that regardless of whether the music is written by Joni or Mingus or Klein (or, in Morrissey's case, Marr/Whyte/etc.), there's no doubting that it is a Joni or Morrissey song. I cannot think of Mingus as any less of a 'Joni album' than Blue, Hejira or any other (except the retreads of recent years). Regards John Southport, UK (Hey, curious that the two responses to my post came from Toronto and Seattle - I'm planning to visit both this summer when visiting relatives after a gap of 30 years! See you guys there?) In message <006301c4ffd1$b6ac00f0$6501a8c0@DELL2>, Mark or Travis writes >Catherine McKay wrote: >> >> Maybe it's just me, but I can't see Joni being so put >> off by anything the critics had to say about it that >> she would just quit, although I'm sure it hurt a lot. >> I figured it had more to do with losing Mingus (the >> man) and not being strong enough jazz-wise to go there >> on her own.> >> Having said that, Joni has continued to collaborate >> with jazz musicians and other jazz-like musicians up >> to her most recent stuff, so there is definitely a >> consistent jazz link. > >Mingus is a bit of an anomaly in Joni's catalogue. Except for two >songs, Joni only wrote the words and the music was written by Mingus. >It is a collaborative effort in a musical form that she was really only >a novice in. I don't think she probably would have chosen to pursue >pure jazz if the record had gotten a better reception from the public >and the critics. Joni is more interested in creating new hybrids. She >incorporated what she learned making Mingus into everything that >followed. And again, at the risk of sounding like a broken vinyl sound >recording receptacle, I think what followed Mingus has a lot of value to it. > >Mark E. in Seattle > - -- Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:58:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Carole and Joni Went to a world premiere of Tapestry: The Music of Carole King last night which was very good. The theatre group presenting has done others, including the artistic director9s My Way, which is in the top ten most performed plays in the country. I9m trying to talk him into do something like, Both Sides Now: The Music of Joni Mitchell next. Hope for the best. I have been interviewing candidates for a Sr. AV Specialist position this week. One this morning was explaining here experience with digital recording of her music she has done. I asked her as she was explaining her background if she composed music and she said yes. I asked, 3Who do you consider to be the best singer songwriter of the last 35 years, and you better answer correctly.2 My guys smiled because they know I am a Joni freak. Without a pause, she answered, 3Joni Mitchell.2 We all laughed and I told her she had successfully completed the first part of the interview. Jerry, who is singing You9ve Got a Friend live tonight for a benefit show ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:47:52 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Re: John Gorka (njc) -- Think I'll go drown myself in a bowl of Stranger Hair Pasta In a message dated 1/20/05 4:51:16 PM, smurfadelica@yahoo.com writes: > I clicked on the link to Gorka's discography earlier > and you people -- are ya listenin', Walt? -- are all > on drugs! > > I think the song you're talking about is called > "Stranger with Your Hair," which makes a lot more > sense to me. Angel hair is a kind of pasta. > I'll take credit for this one -- I got the "Angel..." bidness started. "I saw a stranger with your credit card..." Sigh. Middle age -- AIDS dementia -- who can tell? Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:56:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? **I would say that her early work coincided nicely with the zeitgeist if I understand that word correctly... I'm not talking top ten hits but what the majority of people I knew were listening to- csn, james taylor, richie havens, etc I would say this is arguably true too, Kate - Joni did fit in nicely with that clump of West Coast singer-songwriters/folk-rock movement, but it just seems to me to be so much more so in the Court & Spark era, hearing Help Me all over AM radio, and her on the cover of Time and all that. Then starting with Hejira she moved further and further away from the "spirit of the times" which climaxed with the aforementioned Mingus, which found her at an extreme opposite of pop culture. Like John, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Mingus had been embraced by fans & critics alike instead of shunned. (I skipped Mingus as well) Regardless of what she may say, Joni doesn't like being off the radar screen and WTRF was a blatant attempt to return to the pop format (albeit with mostly jazz-pop composition), and throwing Lionel Ritchie into the mix at the height of his career was certainly no accident. I don't mean any negativity towards WTRF, which I've always thought was a great record, even though I don't think that it nor her near-year long world tour of 1983 re-established her as she had been during her C&S period. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Worthless Thing" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:09:01 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: re: John Gorka Jenny wrote: Wow Anne, a song a week. That workshop sounds really wonderful. Like songwriting boot camp. I did a weekend workshop with Bob Franke that was very valuable. I really loved his view of songwriting and how important he believes community is. How great that he and John frequented the group. That must have been quite a time. Anne, are you still writing and singing? Hi Jenny. Yes, it was really amazing. I learned a lot. And it was really fun. I don't sing or write much anymore. My voice has deteriorated even more than Joni's. I've often wondered about this. I have a theory that Joni's voice would have changed dramatically, even if she didn't smoke. My voice was quite like hers. People used to remark on it whenever I sang. But now, it's just not 'pretty' anymore. Another of my favorite singers (my favorite, in fact, until I heard Joni) was Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing. So, I wonder if there's something about the structure of similar vocal chords that doesn't fare well over time. Now, I spend time designing and making sailors' valentines. They're intricate shell mosaics. So, I guess like Joni, I've found joy in visual arts. And, like her, I no longer felt the need to write once I found what I'd always been looking for. In my case, true love. (awwww) But 'tis true. So, now, Russ makes the octagonal shadow boxes for my sailors' valenties and I do the mosaic part. Maybe Joni should look for someone who makes frames???? I hope you're staying warm. It's just WAY too cold here in New England. (oh, btw, go Pats!) lots of loveAnne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:19:49 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joe Boyd on London Here's the Joni content http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=115 >Mitchell kept accepting engagements, including, in the > early fall of 1967, an offer by British-based American > record executive and producer Joe Boyd to undertake > a brief tour of Great Britain. "Joe set up a tour with the > Incredible String Band, and some isolated little gigs > without them in small coffee houses," she recalled Just been reading this - which has NJC Renowned UK producer Joe Boyd searches for the London of old and bemoans the fact that "there is no native London musical tradition you can dance to" - in his article on UK folk/ country/roots website, NetRhythms - see SEARCHING FOR THE LOST CHORD - LIVE! by Joe Boyd http://www.netrhythms.co.uk/articles_p1.html#joeboyd [Extract] > The atmosphere generated by live musicians playing > danceable music is impossible to replicate with > recordings. People behave differently towards each other. > Electronic beats have the effect of hardening manners to > match the punch of the rhythm tracks. Watching the music > take shape in front of your eyes and touching your dance > partner softens people. At least that is my experience [Joe Boyd] best to all PaulC - who'd be interested to hear how others' 'hometown scene' has changed over the years ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:38:30 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Test Please disregard this message; I'm troubleshooting my email program. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:44:16 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Um corvo preto, volando (sjc) Hi gang, I got Diana Krall's latest in the mail yesterday, but was busy with other packages and only gave it a cursory glance. Then when I got home, I loaded it up into my player, and then comething came up, and I never played it. When my usual insomnia came at 4 a.m., I put the headphones on in the dark, found the play button on the remote by braille, and lay back (I'm used to doing all this so as not to desturb my beloved), not knowing what to expect. I should say that my first and best ex-hubby had turned me on to her. He raved about her, sent me her (I believe) first album, "When I Look In Your Eyes"; I thought it was okay, but he insisted, sent me the album made almost immediately upon the success of the first one, "Stepping Out", that was really a collection of some earlier recorded stuff; when still I balked, he sent me "Only Trust Your Heart"; then "All For You"; then "Love Scenes". Never before had he been so persistent on any other recording artist. Still, while I recognized her incredible pianner-plyin', I didn't much care for her voice. I should say when I met John, I was playing DJRD pretty much non-stop, which will give you an idea of how long ago this was; the first time he came to my dorm room (I was a grad student at the time) and heard "Overture/Cotton Avenue", he said "What's this, Italian science fiction music?" But I won him over, and now he has DJRD in his own collection. Anyway, then I saw DK perform Case on that Joni tribute, fall of 2000 (or 2001?), and I started listening to her again. I bought the CD of her live-in-Paris performance myself. Then, ironically, John reported to me that he didn't much care for the Look Of Love album -- "But John!! It's Bacharach!!" -- and he *really* hated The Girl In The Other Room. "That awful man she's married has ruined her!" "John, are you sure? He's an awfully good lyricist..." "Unlistenable," John insisted. So imagine my surprise at 4 this morning, especially when cut # 8 came on -- I hadn't been on the list much recently, and I'd forgotten it was on the album. And it was Bossa Nova! (I recently suggested that Joni (a) do a Bossa Nova album, and (b) collaborate, possibly with Elvis/Declan M.) What a socko cover (of Black Crow), and it reminded me that the piano in Joni's own version on S&L had a salsa kick to it! Also, the six songs EC & DK wrote together are astonishing, each better than the last. Elvis is not above irony, or wordplay, in the same sense that the ocean is not above the sea, but put to the right uses, his poety is wonderful. And the melodies! I laughed, I cried. And we all know what laughing and crying are. Needless to say, I left John a voice mail reading his beads. Really. Some people -- they send you a measly five or six albums, and they think they own you! love, walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:02:27 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Over The Rhine" in MD, njc Is John still lurking? Over The Rhine is playing some dates soon. February 28 Annapolis, MD Ram's Head Tavern March 1 Arlington, VA Jammin' Java March 2 Philadelphia, PA Tin Angel (Two shows) March 4 Northampton, MS Iron Horse Music Hall March 5 Lancaster, PA The Chameleon March 6 NYC, NY Mercury Lounge A new album, "Drunkard's Prayer" will be out on March 29. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:58:06 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: First Al the Great, then Tinky Winky, now THIS!!!!! (njc, 6969) Hi, all, Well leave it to those homos to convert another one, to take a perfectly nice person like Alexander the Great or Liberace or Rock Hudson and claim him as own of their own! But then (what, nearly ten years ago, and they didn't learn their lesson then!) they claim Tinky Winky (for those of you who didn't have a toddler at the time, he was the Purple Teletubby, the one they made carry a purse!!!), and now SPONGE BOB SQUARE PANTS!!!!! Oh, the shame! And yet I (for one) had noticed a screeching, grating quality not unlike Richard Simmons (and the homos can *have* him!)... But you know how we (our motto: "The Weirdly Right Wing Never Sleep") figured him "out", so to speak? In his recent theatircal release, he sings "We Are Family", which we all know is *their* theme song. Disgusting! Just thought you'd want to be informed. Lordy, Lordy, what will they think of next? Walt (wheezing partly from Acacia in full bloom, and partly from laughter) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:00:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Um corvo preto, volando (sjc), now NJC Hi Walt - it's so cool to see you active here again! I'm glad you enjoyed "The Girl In The Other Room", I thought it was excellent, and even though I ADORE the Black Crow cover, my favorite track is 'Departure Bay' which is one of hers. I definitely would not have picked this up if not for the Joni cover, and now I'm sold on her. Have you by chance picked up Nellie McKay's "Get Away From Me"? Between her piano playing and humor I think you would really enjoy it. Bob NP: Smashing Pumpkins, "Annie-Dog" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:10:35 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni Mitchell, 100% JC Good idea. I think Joni Mitchell is an amazing songwriter. Her facility with words puts her in a class of two. Joni & Bob Dylan stand head-and-shoulders above everyone else as story-tellers. Besides what Dylan could do, Joni sang as well as she wrote. Unlike most of her peers, she hired some of the coolest jazz players of her generation. From "Ladies Of The Canyon" onward, she had an unbroken string of 12 amazing albums, a feat not equaled by any solo Beatle. Any band that produced this much high quality material would be very highly regarded indeed. The fact that she wrote almost all of it & produced or co-produced all of it makes Joni a living miracle. I still think this wannabe "critic" had it right: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Duality.html Lama PS, She's no slouch as a visual artist either. How much time have you spent staring at the cover of "The Hissing of Summer Lawns"? Mark in Sydney said, >Does anyone know of another discussion list that actually discusses Joni Mitchell?> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:47 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: (was) Um corvo preto, (now) A little nellie music (Note: There is Joni content in this post, but it's at the end. Skip ahead if you want. I have flagged it as JONI CONTENT in all caps.) There's-a-Hole-in-Daddy's-Ear-Where-All-the-Money-Goes Muller wrote: > Hi Walt - it's so cool to see you active here again! I second that one. Even though Walt and I have a decent off-list cards and letters thing goin' on an' on, it's still great to see him back in this forum. I always love to hear what randy smart people are thinking. Which reminds me. I miss Alison. (Is that how she spelled it?) Mr. Music also asks Walt: > Have you by chance picked up Nellie McKay's "Get > Away From Me"? Between her piano playing and humor > I think you would really enjoy it. I loved Nellie's CD, but I haven't been playing it much and that got me to wondering ... is Nellie going to meet the same fate as other "funny" singer/songwriters I've loved and abandoned over the years? Am I the only one this happens to? I can listen to a sad song for decades and still feel like weeping when I hear it for the millionth time. But once I've heard a song that makes me laugh a few times, it's over. It's like listening to a joke I've heard too many times ... yet again. (The only exception to this that I can think of right now is Cole Porter, and I that's probably because he really did take a poet's delight in language and word play. He never did "jokes," per se.) On the other hand, I used to really like Loudon Wainwright III, Rufus's father. (Sidebar: I just checked the spelling of Loudon's name by googling him, and there's a LWIII discussion group at http://www.lwiii.com/lwmllst1.html! Freaks! Who would join such a thing!) Anyway, I used to like Loudon a lot, but then, gradually, I reached my fill. He had brilliantly funny lyrics like, "We used to be in love, now we are in hate, You used to say I came too early, but it was you who came too late." But how many times can you laugh at the same witty lines, no matter how fresh they once were? Humor has to be fresh or it's not funny, in my opinion. And if it's British, it must have two u's in it. So I guess the moral of the story is, "Sad art is long, funny art is brief." (Cough. Hmm.) One other thing: I am now officially on the *Rufus* Wainwright bandwagon, along with all the other wagons I'm on. I have tried to like Rufus for years, and I just didn't. The other night, listening to "Want One," Rufus just clicked with me and now I love him. Here are the lyrics to "Pretty Things," a song I like on the CD. The second line of the lyrics is where you'll find JONI CONTENT: Pretty things, so what if I like pretty things? Pretty lies, so what if I like pretty lies? From where you are To where I am now I need these pretty things Around the planets of my face Everything's a sign of my astrology From where you are To where I am now Is its own galaxy Be a star and fall down somewhere next to me And make it past your color TV This time will pass and with it will me And all these pretty things Don't say you don't notice them XO, - --Smurf Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:03:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (was) Um corvo preto, (now) A little nellie music NJC (0% JC) Mr. "I-used-to-love-AOL-but-it's-all-over-now" said: I loved Nellie's CD, but I haven't been playing it much and that got me to wondering ... is Nellie going to meet the same fate as other "funny" singer/songwriters I've loved and abandoned over the years? So you've said "Whoa Nellie"? I continue to enjoy it, and it's about a year old now - and I get the feeling that I'll be enjoying it for a long time. It's not like it's a funny album like Tom Lehrer or something - the songs themselves are so musically varied that even if you don't pay attention to the words you can just enjoy what the song is doing melodically. I admit that I don't spew my coffee anymore to any of the punch lines, but that's OK. It'll be interesting to see if she can beat the sophomore jinx - that might have been 5 years worth of songs, and she'll have to assemble another release in a year or so to stay on the radar screen, so we'll see. Maybe she'll pull an Alicia Keys and put out a second record that blows her first one out of the water! Bob NP: Elvis Costello/Burt Bacharach, "Tears At The Birthday Party" (still listening to this one too!) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #27 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)