From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 19 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 024 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? ["Martin Giles" ] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [Adam Mulvey ] Re: Shawn Colvin njc ["rflynn@frontiernet.net" ] Re: twigged, njc ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: twigged, njc [Em ] Re: twigged, njc What do twigs have to do with it? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [Jamie Zubairi ] Queen Lulu, lurkdom and computer bleeeahs, French Fest. NJC [aurabright@s] Bush inauguration boycott (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] [none] [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [Em ] Re: twigged, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Bush inauguration boycott (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: twigged, njc [Smurf ] Re: Shawn Colvin njc [kate@katebennett.com] Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? [kate@katebennett.com] patty griffin njc [kate@katebennett.com] Re: patty griffin njc [Em ] Re: Rhino records & Joni Mitchell Audio Interview [Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Hi Michael Reading your post, I was thinking to myself that the problem is that Joni hasn't written much in the way of classic pop songs. Her music has always been too multi-layered, has too much to offer to be able also to come across in that instantaneous way a classic 'pop song' does. And that is why I love her music so much. I long ago realised that the music that I love most is almost always the music that took time to grow on me. It seems to me that in order to produce a song that has huge appeal, you have to keep it simple, and that as you add depth, so you add complexity, and so you lose 'instant accessibility'. But then Randy suggested 'California'. Hmmm .. Perhaps Joni achieved the impossible with this song? The melody is light and bouncy enough with good hooks, the song structure is simple. But the lyrics are far from banal, have a large dose of humour, and the song definitely 'captures the spirit of the time'. I guess I would say that BYT fits CBC's criteria even better, but personally, I don't like the song. 'California' would be my nomination. Martin. > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:27:37 +0000 > From: "Michael O'Malley" > Subject: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? > An essential track was defined as a tune > with an undeniably great melody and great lyrics; a great hook that was > easily recognizable; a song that captured the spirit of its time, all the > while being original and different enough to act as a trailblazer, > setting a new standard or style >...during the next three months, CBC > is redoing a Canadian version of the list, and Joni's place will surely > be rightfully redeemed. No one had questioned Joni's artistic legacy and > her right to be on that first list, but the votes were for the song, not > the artist. And River was simply not a strong enough choice. > How about (shudder) BYT? Is that ultimately the only song powerful > enough to finally immortalise Joni on such a list ?? The problem is, it > *is* a great pop song! Are we destined to be doomed by jukebox Joni !? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:32:24 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? - --- Michael O'Malley: What's an essential Joni track, JMDLers? "What is NOT an essential Joni track?" is a better question for this group, Michael! Here's what the JMDL home page says: Top Voted Songs A Case Of You Amelia Woman Of Heart And Mind Hejira The Last Time I Saw Richard How about "Raised on Robbery?" It has CC (Canadian Content) with its Maple Leafs and it is probably more familiar to more people. However, "Big Yellow Taxi" is loaded with Joni catch phrases, such as "don't it always seem to go," "paved paradise," "tree museum," etc. - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:18:42 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Songwriters, njc at this point Actually, Steve Goodman sang The Dutchman, but Michael Smith wrote it. Another terrific, unfairly overlooked songwriter. From the Chicago area, I think. At 08:42 AM 1/18/2005, you wrote: >you know who else was FANTASTIC? Remember Steve Goodman? Wrote "The >Dutchman" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:48:49 +0000 From: Adam Mulvey Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Martin Giles wrote: >Hi Michael > >Reading your post, I was thinking to myself that the problem is that Joni >hasn't written much in the way of classic pop songs. Her music has always >been too multi-layered, has too much to offer to be able also to come across >in that instantaneous way a classic 'pop song' does. And that is why I love >her music so much. I long ago realised that the music that I love most is >almost always the music that took time to grow on me. > I know what you mean... There's so much intricacy in all of her albums, but she makes it all sound so effortless: it's easy to forget just how multi-layered and cleverly put together so much of her songs are! However, she has written some great pop songs... There's few people who know much about music who wouldn't be able to sing the whole of Big Yellow Taxi at you (and rightly so!); and then there's Both Sides Now, which is a fantastically anthemic pop song, and Chelsea Morning, and You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio, and... Well, it would be quite a long list, I reckon! Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:25:12 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Shawn Colvin njc > Bryan "Shotgun Down the Avalanche" an absolutely amazing song? One of my favorites. Also Polaroids: Please no more therapy Mother take care of me Piece me together with a Needle and thread Wrap me in eiderdown Lace from your wedding gown Fold me and lay me down On your bed It doesn't get much better than that. Jerry, up all night at a meeting to try and stop a Wal-Mart from being built in historic Tarpon Springs. We lost. They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:35:31 -0500 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Shawn Colvin njc "History falls / to parking lots and shopping malls." But at least you tried. And I like Shawn Colvin,too. Quoting Jerry Notaro : > > Bryan "Shotgun Down the Avalanche" an absolutely amazing song? > > One of my favorites. Also Polaroids: > > Please no more therapy > Mother take care of me > Piece me together with a > Needle and thread > Wrap me in eiderdown > Lace from your wedding gown > Fold me and lay me down > On your bed > > It doesn't get much better than that. > > Jerry, up all night at a meeting to try and stop a Wal-Mart from > being built > in historic Tarpon Springs. We lost. > > They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:15:27 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: twigged, njc I don't know about cereal killers, but i'm a cereal eater!!! Steve, still wondering why anyone would want to harm a box of Cheerio's... :-P >>> Lori Fye 1/18/2005 9:15:00 PM >>> >> Have you ever noticed how many serial killers are from Ohio? > Bush-type voters perhaps? Whew! I guess that gets me off the list of suspects, then! ; ) Hi Laura! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: twigged, njc - --- Steven Polifka wrote: > I don't know about cereal killers, but i'm a cereal eater!!! unfortunately, I'm more of a serial eater. And it shows. :/ em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:58:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twigged, njc What do twigs have to do with it? --- Em wrote: > --- Steven Polifka wrote: > > > I don't know about cereal killers, but i'm a > cereal eater!!! > > unfortunately, I'm more of a serial eater. And it > shows. > :/ > em > I'm both a serial eater and a cereal eater and yup, it shows. Steve, don't feel bad about the Cheerios. They were already dead when you found 'em. You're just cleaning up after the fact. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:07:14 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: twigged, njc What do twigs have to do with it? The real problem is: I was and still could be a serial cereal eater. Cereal is the perfect snack, you know. Except I now live with a Carb Cop, so I get oatmeal (it's a cholesterol thing) and haven't seen a loaf of bread in my house for 18 months. Still don't know what twigs have to do with it either. Steve, dreaming about Lucky Charms, Fruit Loops, and all that other 70's kids cereals... >>> Catherine McKay 1/19/2005 8:58:56 AM >>> --- Em wrote: > --- Steven Polifka wrote: > > > I don't know about cereal killers, but i'm a > cereal eater!!! > > unfortunately, I'm more of a serial eater. And it > shows. > :/ > em > I'm both a serial eater and a cereal eater and yup, it shows. Steve, don't feel bad about the Cheerios. They were already dead when you found 'em. You're just cleaning up after the fact. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:19:43 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? > Martin Giles wrote: >Reading your post, I was thinking to myself that > the problem is that Joni > >hasn't written much in the way of classic pop > songs. Her music has always > >been too multi-layered, has too much to offer to be > able also to come across > >in that instantaneous way a classic 'pop song' > does. --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > I know what you mean... There's so much intricacy > in all of her albums, > but she makes it all sound so effortless: it's easy > to forget just how > multi-layered and cleverly put together so much of > her songs are! > > However, she has written some great pop songs... > There's few people who > know much about music who wouldn't be able to sing > the whole of Big > Yellow Taxi at you (and rightly so!); and then > there's Both Sides Now, > which is a fantastically anthemic pop song, and > Chelsea Morning, and You > Turn Me On, I'm A Radio, and... Well, it would be > quite a long list, I > reckon! > I guess you have to define what a great "pop" song is, and to me, to begin with, it's one that is POPular, that is, it appeals to the masses (the stinky, no-brain masses). Most of Joni's songs don't do that, although attempts have been made. By and large, it is BYT that *everyone* knows and that has been a hit more than once by various artists ever since it first came out (well, OK, was Joni's a number one hit? Counting Crows, yes, I think so; but anyone else who had a major bit hit with this?) In any case, the entire world knows this song, and it is quoted widely in many contexts. And it's got to have a hook. And for sure, BYT has that. The minute you hear those opening chords, you recognize the song and are drawn in, not necessarily willingly, but there you go. And it has to be easy to sing and have a pretty simple musical structure (which is why it's easy to sing, as well as to play.) And, for the most part, BYT has that. If there are any notes that are too high for some, you can get around that. Even though Joan has had other songs that have made it onto top-name-your-number lists, I doubt any of them has made it as far, or is as widely known as BYT. So, if that's what they're after, then BYT it is. Having said that, I've never cared much for the song (maybe because I've heard it so often by Joni and others). I feel like such a snob, but although I've been happy for Joan when she has a "hit" (it's a relative term), I've always wished it was some other song that made it, and not the ones like BYT and Raised on Robbery. Somehow, Joni just ISN'T a pop singer and I feel, I dunno, a bit embarassed for her when the industry tries to push one of her songs as a pop top40, top50, top10, whatever, hit. Songs like "River" are well-known by people in the music biz and have had many covers, but how many are pop hits, and how many could be sung by, say, Joe the construction worker as he rivets those I-bars and girders together? The problem with any top-number list is that, if it's yours, then it's subjective (duh); and, if you're going by popular/mass vote, then you are going to get most of the votes from the stinky masses that dote on Celine and Beyonce* and the American Idol types. The rest of us (the illuminati, the cognoscenti, the *true* music lovers, OK, the snobs) can vote all we want to get our Joan in a top popular vote list, but I am quite sure we will be outvoted by the pop mass vote, simply because there are, scarily and unfortunately, more of them than there are of us. Put up the barbed wire and release the hounds. We are surrounded. - ----------------------- * Beyonce - I think this woman has a really good voice and, if she gets proper direction, could do something with it, so I hope she has the brains and the strength or, failing that, a really good manager who uses her talent for good and not for evil. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:34:49 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: twigged, njc What do twigs have to do with it? - --- Steven Polifka wrote: > Steve, dreaming about Lucky Charms, Fruit Loops, > and all that other 70's kids cereals... Cap'n Crunch! Carbs, sugar AND fat grams! All you need in one cereal. :P Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:40:57 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: twigged, njc Steve wrote: I don't know about cereal killers, but i'm a cereal eater!!! Steve, still wondering why anyone would want to harm a box of Cheerio's... Hi Steve, Cheerios gets a little mean itself after a few days if it breathes too much. I don't eat much cold hard cereal myself. I'm more concerned about the surreal killers... Ninetendo and Play Station 2, etc. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:48:36 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: twigged, njc - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > I don't eat much cold hard cereal myself. I'm more concerned > about the > surreal killers... how about the surreal eaters? Dali's Last Supper? nah...... bad.... badd Em baddddddddd.... em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:57:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Catherine McKay wrote: > By and large, it is BYT that *everyone* knows and that > has been a hit more than once by various artists ever > since it first came out (well, OK, was Joni's a number > one hit? Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me that the hit version was done by some group but I don't remember the name. I would vote for either 'Help Me' or 'Free Man in Paris'. Both were pretty widely played on AM radio and both are fairly accessible songs with singable choruses, especially 'Help Me'. This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. How do you define a great song or a great songwriter? It's subjective and answers will differ depending on who you ask. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:05:45 +0000 From: Adam Mulvey Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Catherine McKay wrote: >I guess you have to define what a great "pop" song is, >and to me, to begin with, it's one that is POPular, >that is, it appeals to the masses (the stinky, >no-brain masses). Most of Joni's songs don't do that, >although attempts have been made. > >By and large, it is BYT that *everyone* knows and that >has been a hit more than once by various artists ever >since it first came out (well, OK, was Joni's a number >one hit? Counting Crows, yes, I think so; but anyone >else who had a major bit hit with this?) In any case, >the entire world knows this song, and it is quoted >widely in many contexts. > >And it's got to have a hook. And for sure, BYT has >that. The minute you hear those opening chords, you >recognize the song and are drawn in, not necessarily >willingly, but there you go. > >And it has to be easy to sing and have a pretty simple >musical structure (which is why it's easy to sing, as >well as to play.) And, for the most part, BYT has >that. If there are any notes that are too high for >some, you can get around that. > > Well, I suppose a lot of Joni songs are musically sophisticated, but that's at the construction stage; I think the skill is in how much they manage to make something so intricate sound so melodic, so entrancing. They're not 'difficult', as such, are they, to listen to? (Bohemian Rhapsody always tops these kind of polls, and that's not exactly a three-chord wonder of a song.) I suppose the real criteria is how much they get into the public imagination. These polls are always dominated by people who just happen to be in vogue at the time. >Songs like "River" are well-known by people in the >music biz and have had many covers, but how many are >pop hits, and how many could be sung by, say, Joe the >construction worker as he rivets those I-bars and >girders together? > Joe the construction worker wouldn't be a wee bit of a stereotype, would he? If he has buddies called Aaron the traffic cop, Mitch the sailor and Dwayne the cowboy, I bet he loves Joni -- and Melissa Etheridge too! ;o) I know what you mean though. It's just that this kind of music is never, ever on the radio these days, is it? Joni's just not what people think of straight away, unless they're actual fans. ( But then Bob Dylan doesn't feature too high on them, either, and he's supposed to be the greatest songwriter of all time!) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:08:21 +0000 From: Adam Mulvey Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Mark or Travis wrote: > Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me that the hit version > was done by some group but I don't remember the name. Did I dream it, or did Sheryl Crow cover it as well? Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:14:52 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: twigged, njc Em wrote: how about the surreal eaters? Dali's Last Supper? nah...... bad.... badd Em baddddddddd.... em Well, I think that's hilarious, Em! Come to Dada! XO, - --Smurf, who just finished his aluminum-free oatmeal with raisins and walnuts and dripping clocks -- my own special blend. But I left none left for my poor chien Andalou! Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:17:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Not sure about the Sherly Crow but I know that Amy Grunt had a number 1 hit with it in the UK. And Counting Crows. I know that Joni did release BYT as a single in the 70's (I have a copy of it) and she released the MOA version in 1974. Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > Mark or Travis wrote: > > > Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me > that the hit version > > was done by some group but I don't remember the > name. > > Did I dream it, or did Sheryl Crow cover it as well? > > Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:47:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? --- Mark or Travis wrote: > > Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me > that the hit version was done by some group but I > don't remember the name. Er, um, I thought so, but then again, it could be just my faltering brain. Or maybe it was released as a single in Canada, but not in the US? In any case, it is definitely a song that EVERYONE knows, whether it got to No. 1 (somehow I doubt it), or in the Top 10, or any of those foolish indicators. I don't remember it being done by any group except for the Counting Crows. > I would vote for either 'Help Me' or 'Free Man in > Paris'. Both were pretty widely played on AM > radio and both are fairly accessible songs with > singable choruses, especially 'Help Me'. > A lot of songs from "Court & Spark" got a lot of airplay but how many people would be able to sing along with them? I'm not trying to be a smartass - I really wonder. I do hear both of these songs played in drugstores and shopping malls though, if that means anything. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:02:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > Well, I suppose a lot of Joni songs are musically > sophisticated, but > that's at the construction stage; I think the skill > is in how much they > manage to make something so intricate sound so > melodic, so entrancing. > They're not 'difficult', as such, are they, to > listen to? (Bohemian > Rhapsody always tops these kind of polls, and that's > not exactly a > three-chord wonder of a song.) This is true. Maybe Bohemian Rhapsody got a boost with Wayne's World. It isn't exactly a campfire song. On the other hand, everyone can sing, "Weee are the chaaampions" but most of them probably have no idea where that came from - it's just another sports-stadium chant. > I suppose the real criteria is how much they get > into the public > imagination. These polls are always dominated by > people who just happen > to be in vogue at the time. > > >Songs like "River" are well-known by people in the > >music biz and have had many covers, but how many > are > >pop hits, and how many could be sung by, say, Joe > the > >construction worker as he rivets those I-bars and > >girders together? > > > Joe the construction worker wouldn't be a wee bit of > a stereotype, would > he? If he has buddies called Aaron the traffic cop, > Mitch the sailor > and Dwayne the cowboy, I bet he loves Joni -- and > Melissa Etheridge > too! ;o) Joe is definitely a stereotype but I had brain-freeze when I wrote that. I wasn't thinking of the Village People either. I doubt if my Joe (my Dad called him Harvey Lunchbucket) would be participating in pop polls anyway. It's more likely young girls in high school (Tiffany Lunchbag, maybe?) And yeah, these polls, whether they're for singers or others, are dominated by people who think this stuff is important in the here and now, and who are young and have no experience of anything that happened more than five years ago, and there, I think, I'm being generous. For a while, in the Greatest Canadian poll that Michael O mentioned earlier, a truly annoying sports announcer by the name of Don Cherry was, if not in the lead, then one of the top contenders. How scary is that? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:13:32 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? My guess would be that Help Me was the best selling single of her own single releases. Simon???? Jerry > Catherine McKay wrote: >> By and large, it is BYT that *everyone* knows and that >> has been a hit more than once by various artists ever >> since it first came out (well, OK, was Joni's a number >> one hit? > > Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me that the hit version was > done by some group but I > don't remember the name. > > I would vote for either 'Help Me' or 'Free Man in Paris'. Both were pretty > widely played on AM > radio and both are fairly accessible songs with singable choruses, especially > 'Help Me'. > > This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. How do you > define a great song or a > great songwriter? It's subjective and answers will differ depending on who > you ask. > > Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? now Boh Rhaps NJC - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > This is true. Maybe Bohemian Rhapsody got a boost with > Wayne's World. It isn't exactly a campfire song. Oddly enough, I bought the 45 back when it came out - '76 or whatever. Funny thing is, I was in the process of trying to quit highschool, being the anti-highschool, anti-social little person that I was, and DAMNED if the counselor I had to deal with wasn't named "Miller". As is "Miss Millah, we will not let you go"...." I mean it probably meant something TOTALLY different, but it felt "appropriate" somehow. sigh sigh sigh.... I thought it was a pretty interesting song - and I felt prompted to learn what all the stuff meant. Like who the hell is Beelzebub? (no pun intended) (oh ok the pun was intended) Scaramouche? Yeah, ran across that later in theatre history but had gotten a clue from the Queen song. Gawd the 70's were a trip - were they not? em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? Here's what I found on the JM site: "In March, the single "Help Me" was launched and became Joni's first and only Top 10 single. It peaked at #7 in the first week of June. The album went all the way to #2 on the BILLBOARD album charts and stayed there for 4 weeks. It also rose to #2 in the Canadian charts, right behind Gordon Lightfoot." It's isn't very singable though as Catherine pointed out. But according to the criteria, that may not be an issue: "An essential track was defined as a tune with an undeniably great melody and great lyrics; a great hook that was easily recognizable; a song that captured the spirit of its time, all the while being original and different enough to act as a trailblazer" I'm partial to "Help Me' because it was the first Joni song I ever heard and my musical world was instantly changed forever. Was it a trailblazer? It certainly was for me. I need someone to place it in the musical context of the time for me? Any takers? Jenny Jerry Notaro wrote: My guess would be that Help Me was the best selling single of her own single releases. Simon???? Jerry > Catherine McKay wrote: >> By and large, it is BYT that *everyone* knows and that >> has been a hit more than once by various artists ever >> since it first came out (well, OK, was Joni's a number >> one hit? > > Did Joni release a single of BYT? It seems to me that the hit version was > done by some group but I > don't remember the name. > > I would vote for either 'Help Me' or 'Free Man in Paris'. Both were pretty > widely played on AM > radio and both are fairly accessible songs with singable choruses, especially > 'Help Me'. > > This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. How do you > define a great song or a > great songwriter? It's subjective and answers will differ depending on who > you ask. > > Mark E. in Seattle Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:41:26 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: twigged, njc Em wrote: how about the surreal eaters? Dali's Last Supper? nah...... bad.... Hi Em! Pretty good... not bad at all. I would say "bad" surreal eaters are more like those in the Who's movie, Tommy. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:45:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Rhino records & Joni Mitchell Audio Interview --- est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: > Found this in my email box tonight: > http://www.rhino.com/rzine/StoryKeeper.lasso?StoryID=295 > I'm on DIGEST so if this has already been > posted.....sorry. > > Laura If it was posted, I, for one, never saw it. So thanks for posting it, Laura. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: twigged, njc - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Hi Em! > > Pretty good... not bad at all. I would say "bad" surreal eaters > are > more like those in the Who's movie, Tommy. Hi Laura, trying to think (challenge that it sometimes is, lol) of what scene that would be, and am flashing on Ann Marget in the baked beans. :) or was a it diff. scene? That scene seemed so gross to me at the time. Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:15:45 +0000 From: aurabright@supanet.com Subject: Queen Lulu, lurkdom and computer bleeeahs, French Fest. NJC HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL. This is extremely late and well over due. Dear Listers who know me, and , Hello all Newbies. You have happened on a wonderful place.. enjoy, get stuck in or lurk, its up to you... whatever role you take here there are no Big stars, just some people who have more time than others, or more access to computers or just more fanaticism for ALL nuances of our Canadian Lady of the soaring voice. Its a great thing to be here when I want to and when I can. I am not a list joiner generally and this remains a stance I take on life generally... although I could add Neil Young, I suppose, and REM, and VAn Morrison, and a few others...do they have discussion lists? Probably... I am always amazed at how much some of you manage to post, and hold down jobs and function and not get RSI from pounding keyboards all the time. Queen Lulu is not dead nor gone to secret listdom... she is lurking... but watching, a bit like a speed cop with a camera.... She is busy and has had a computer that has died and so is grieving the loss of said computer, and having to put up with sharing King Frank's computer... and doing stuff through the vagueries of web mail and dial up!!! we are going to Broad band when we can.... She is also trying to negotiate time of work to co-incide (if there is any chance) with some part of Frenchfest so that I can place deposits as need be, if it can be arranged. Problem is that boss (who says yes) is off until mid Feb and we cannot book hols ahead of new holiday year without her say so.... (Holiday year starts first April). So its all a bit yurg and mooo on the planning front, I cannot and will not book ferrys without knowing i can get the time as they charge the earth to alter bookings now... flying is out of the question. ANYWAY. I just wanted to break my long silence with a HI and hello and how are you all and just to let you know that , as Colin has pointed out in VERY FEW WORDS WE call metal foil made from AL YEW MIN EE UM... Baco Foil or Tin foil.. never heard it called paper.. that is reserved for Grease proofed paper... now what do you call that? If you have talked about what follows on the list sorry but in case you have not....... Also on the AL YEW MIN EE UM front, some years ago a large road haulage tanker travelling in Devon carrying AL YOU MIN EE UM waste, spilt its load into a feeder to the Camelford town water supply. there is probably a web story on it somewhere... can't be arsed to look...but... Hundreds of people were accidentally poisoned and several of them suffered from sever dementia type afflictions as a result, several of them irreversible.... I have not used Aluminium pots or pans since, am wary of foil wrapping anything. So be wary of the stuff.... YOu may all go about your day now... Hugs to you all and I hope when I get my work life balance sorted I will be back with all guns blazing..... I also have to say I am horrified at our UK troops treatment of the Iraqi looters.BAd enough with the American lot, but I am so glad that they will be publicly humiliated and reviled for their acts, with the on-going trial. It is bad enough that we have gone in there to fight a war that is not justified in the first place ........but this is unforgiveable... may their god forgive them because I can't. Must go as I can feel a rant coming along and I have NO TIME!!!! Lucy Signup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:16:13 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: Bush inauguration boycott (njc) Hi there. I'm just reminding everyone (in the US, anyway) that to voice opposition to the Bush administration's policies, especially in Iraq, Thursday is "Not One Damn Dime" day. The idea is to spend no money at all on Thursday, January 20, Inauguration Day. So, if you intend to participate, please remember to: - - buy something now to bring to work for lunch - - bring coffee from home instead of stopping at the Starbuck's (or wherever) - - read the news online instead of buying a paper Thursday - - put gas in your car before Thursday - - arrange carpooling or other means of transportation (not the bus or train) - - have enough food in the house for dinner - - pack lunches for the kids - - bring bottled water to the gym instead of buying it there And, above all, don't go to the mall :-) I am always grateful that I live in a country where making a statement like through this boycott is allowed. And I want to make sure that essential right is preserved. Above all, I want to be heard. I believe this administration is deaf. Not because I don't agree with the policies, but because there has never been any real acknowledgement of the diversity of opinion in this country. Never any real thought or consideration of differing viewpoints. OK, I'll get off the soapbox now. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:49:08 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: [none] This from Liz Smith's column (I read all the gossip columns, of course) about Renee Fleming: WHAT IF YOU gave a party for a diva and no one came? It would hurt. But manager-entrepreneur Sandy Gallin's big bash at his Malibu showplace Friday for the divine Renie Fleming escaped such a hit. The guest list was superb - Warren Beatty; Jackie Collins; Barbra Streisand; Andrew Lloyd Webber and his wife, Madeleine; Jacob Rothschild; Charles Nelson Reilly; Sharon Osbourne; Jack Nicholson; Les Moonves; the Ron Meyers; David Geffen; Bianca Jagger; Nancy Meyers; Linda and David Foster; Carole Bayer Sager; Bob Daly; Donald Deline, and others. Renie's big surprise was the appearance of her favorite singer-composer, Joni Mitchell. Renie had just recorded Joni's song "River" for her jazz album coming this spring. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I need someone to place it in the musical context of the time for me? > Any takers? I'm hearing something by Earth Wind and Fire being played next on the radio from back then.... does that help? then maybe (ack!) "Seasons in the Sun". :P em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:59:29 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: twigged, njc EM wrote: what scene that would be, and am flashing on Ann Marget in the baked beans. Hi again Em! That's a good one, but I was thinking of the drugs and booze being passed out like communion. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:04:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? --- Jamie Zubairi wrote: > Not sure about the Sherly Crow but I know that Amy > Grunt had a number 1 hit with it in the UK. And > Counting Crows. > > I know that Joni did release BYT as a single in the > 70's (I have a copy of it) and she released the MOA > version in 1974. > > Much Joni > Ah yes, the Amy Grunt version. Who could forget? She changed the price charged to see the tree museum to reflect modern-day gouging. As for me, I'd sing, "a whole lot o' money" or "a fair whack of money" or "a shitload o' money" depending on mood and audience. IF I were to sing that song, which I try not to do. As for "hits", it does depend upon what country you're in. What's No 1 in the US is not necessarily so in the UK or in Canada, much less in other countries around the world. We Canadians used to have one foot in the UK and one foot in the US as far as popular music is concerned, so possibly what was big in the UK might also have been big, or at least middling, in Canada, but possibly unheard of in the US. I suspect we are more US-oriented these days because it seems that every radio station in the US and Canada plays the same ten obnoxious songs. Even if you hear one that you like, that doesn't last long, because they play them ad nauseum. It's kind of like Macdonald's for the ears. NP My kid singing in the basement, Green Day's "I walk alone..." Awwww, he's cute but he wouldn't want me to say so. He probably has the walkman on, because he's singing LOUD. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:05:27 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: twigged, njc Laura, PhD (formerly "Dr. Laura," which had too many negative connotations for such a nice person) wrote: << Pretty good... not bad at all. I would say "bad" surreal eaters are more like those in the Who's movie, Tommy. >> Good surreal: "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (LSD) by The Beatles: "Picture yourself on a boat on a river with tangerine trees and marmalade skies" Also, a personal fave, the film "Beauty and the Beast" by Cocteau -- including the ultimate queer eye guide to castle decorating! - --Smurf Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:07:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Bush inauguration boycott (njc) --- Anne Sandstrom wrote: > Hi there. > > I'm just reminding everyone (in the US, anyway) that > to voice opposition to the Bush administration's > policies, especially in Iraq, Thursday is "Not One > Damn Dime" day. The idea is to spend no money at all > on Thursday, January 20, Inauguration Day. > [...] > I am always grateful that I live in a country where > making a statement like through this boycott is > allowed. And I want to make sure that essential > right is preserved. Above all, I want to be heard. I > believe this administration is deaf. Not because I > don't agree with the policies, but because there has > never been any real acknowledgement of the diversity > of opinion in this country. Never any real thought > or consideration of differing viewpoints. I do hope this is successful. It would be nice to see if it has a noticeable effect. There's nothing speaks so loud as a boycott, if you can get enough people in on it. The perfect passive resistance tool. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:03:03 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: twigged, njc Laura, oh yeah!...was that in "The Acid Queen" sequence? wow, wondering why I can't remember.... must be all that aluminum in the ensuing years... LOL, please laugh... ;) Time to re-watch, perhaps! Em - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > > EM wrote: > > what scene that would be, and am flashing on Ann Marget in the baked > beans. > > > Hi again Em! > > That's a good one, but I was thinking of the drugs and booze > being > passed out like communion. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:11:28 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? --- Em wrote: > --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > > I need someone to place it in the musical context > of the time for me? > > Any takers? > > I'm hearing something by Earth Wind and Fire being > played next on the > radio from back then.... > does that help? then maybe (ack!) "Seasons in the > Sun". > :P > em Your brain is so much younger than mine, Em. I couldn't possibly remember. Even if I looked it up, I wouldn't remember. I like to think that it's because I'm not a linear thinker, so time means nothing, but I think I'm just fooling myself, and losing it. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:34:42 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) In a message dated 1/17/05 9:37:32 PM, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > What about Jerry Notaro?? He has taste in puters > I live in San Francisco, but "puters" is a new one to me. (I assume Jerry collects pewter...) best, w ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:55:48 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: twigged, njc Oh Em, nothing involving Ann-Margret could be anything but sumptious. Now, all the rightwingers attempting to change sexual preference should have set up a night with her. Ooh la la. Would gladly have eaten every bean and licked up the juices. mack Np: Daryl Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:27:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) Justalittlebreen@aol.com said: > In a message dated 1/17/05 9:37:32 PM, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > > >> What about Jerry Notaro?? He has taste in puters >> > > I live in San Francisco, but "puters" is a new one to me. (I assume > Jerry > collects pewter...) > That queenie I'm not! Though I did see a pewter art deco lamp to die for.......... Jerry :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:25:43 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: twigged, njc About Ann-Margaret, Mack wrote: << Ooh la la. >> Moi aussi, mon frere! And that ol' JMDL synchronicity continues because I just did a Google image search for A-M yesterday! Lots of great 60s-era photos. And who could ever forget The Flintstone's "Ann-Margrock," huh? A true cultural highlight of the 20th century. - --Smurf Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:18:11 -0800 (PST) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: Shawn Colvin njc Jerry >> It doesn't get much better than that. I agree those lines from Poloroid are stellar. (welcome all to the scdl portion of the jmdl!) & then there is one of my favorites 'Orion in the Sky' which i just realized is also credited also to larry klein (probably music?) so this post is actually jcbfm (joni content by former marriage)- oh! & then there is "Dead of the Night" Orion in the Sky: "Maybe somewhere in the southern Hemisphere There could be room for all this love Where theyve saved a place for innocence And what is still mysterious And their dreaming time Theyre dreaming time Dead of the Night: A bead of sweat runs down my arm And I drink it from my skin It is the most real thing that I feel It is communion Bless the meek Heal the sick Protect the weak In the dead of the night kate taking a much needed mental break from work ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Where will Joni be on CBC's 50 Tracks? I would say it is ACOY. Having done 4 Tributes to Joni, ACOY & River are the ones that most musicians want to perform. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:46:13 -0800 (PST) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: patty griffin njc someone asked me (but i can't find the email so i can't remember who asked- was it em?) which patty griffin cd i would recommend- i would say get 1,000 Kisses first... then try 'Living with Ghosts' ... i am woefully behind new cd purchases & have not yet bought her new one which i've heard is great... the other 'released' cd which i forget the name of in this moment(red something?) i didn't like as much... 'silver bell' (not released) has some great tracks on it too ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:05:17 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: patty griffin njc t'was I! thanks Kate. :) Em - --- kate@katebennett.com wrote: > someone asked me (but i can't find the email so i can't remember who > asked- was it em?) which patty griffin cd i would recommend- i would > say > get 1,000 Kisses first... then try 'Living with Ghosts' ... i am > woefully > behind new cd purchases & have not yet bought her new one which i've > heard is great... the other 'released' cd which i forget the name of > in > this moment(red something?) i didn't like as much... 'silver bell' > (not > released) has some great tracks on it too ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:25:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Rhino records & Joni Mitchell Audio Interview I always find her in interview so expressive and lucid. And the constant sucking of the cigarette is just funny, now that I've quit.... This is a great interview, funny that I'd never seen it either... THanks for sharing it with the group. This has no Joni speaking on it but it's the BBC review of Travelogue. Ok, so it's a bit late in finding it but... it's really nice to hear. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/ram/frontrow20021206_joni_mitchell.ram Much Joni Jamie Zoob Catherine McKay wrote: - --- est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: > Found this in my email box tonight: > http://www.rhino.com/rzine/StoryKeeper.lasso?StoryID=295 > I'm on DIGEST so if this has already been > posted.....sorry. > > Laura If it was posted, I, for one, never saw it. So thanks for posting it, Laura. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca - --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:09:12 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? <>Kate, If I've already said this, I apologize. A month ago I heard Townes van Zandt's singing voice for the first time. I thought he sounded a lot like Jeff. Is Jeff aware of Townes? Does he count him among his influences? All the best, Jim Happy The Man said, >Any list with Patty Griffin and Townes Van Zandt would get my attention.> - - ----- Original Message ----- Kate B said, >> Patty Griffin & John Gorka would be on my list of top > > singer/songwriters...both with incredible voices & incredible songs ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #24 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)