From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #22 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 18 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 022 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: aluminium/aluminum, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... [Smur] Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) [Smurf ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #21 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Stereophile Magazine ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Now hear this!!!! (NJC) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: Number One ? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing [Michael Paz ] RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... Wild, wacky Walt wrote: << And, forgive me for closing a tad bitchily, esp. on this day, but, please, enough with the Aluminum Can Poisoning postings; I can think of six things off the top of my head that are worse than potential ACP (I can see the pharmaceutical ads now: "ACP -- Don't Let It Can You" >> Ha! Mine is -- "ACP. The poison that goes down easier than Death Taxes." You never have to apologize for your uber bitchitude, Walt honey. At least it makes it seem, however briefly, as if Catherine's not the only one here. (Then she starts right up all over again.) And as far as early and late work goes, I think it is often fascinating to look at what artists are doing in their in their second and third (or whatever) acts -- and then to compare and contrast them. Emmylou Harris and Rod Stewart, for example. The high road vs. the road to Hell by way of Jump-the-Shark Lane. (Sidebar: God, what happened to Rod? He was once a great blues singer, which is quite an accomplishment when one is very young and Scottish. And what's with the plastic surgery? Last time I saw him I thought Melissa Rivers had decided to get a mullet. Poor Rod has become a "Maturity Don't" -- like leather pants!) It's not just performers and their mature works that I'm talking about, but also writers and directors and artists of any kind, really. Choreographers, designers, sculptors ... I think that maturity cannot help but change artists and thus the art. But some people, some artists, learn a bit here and a bit there about their chosen fields. And as they grow and mature, all of these things come together and make their art, whatever it is, greater (whatever that means) than it could have been when the artist was immature. I think Clint Eastwood right now is a very good example of this. As a side note, I am also fascinated by artists who never really go away, and seem to be famous all over again every ten years or so. Like John Travolta. Or Tiny Tim (RIP). Tony Randall was another. There are many examples of this -- so many that I think the phrase "there are no second acts in American life" should finally be laid to rest. But the queen of this phenomenon will always be, for me, Cher. Whatever you or I think of her, it has been noted that after life as we know it ceases on this planet, Cher will rule over a kingdom of cockroach minions. Now, what was I talking about? - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:11:01 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) - --- JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: My next act of technical evolution: getting the hell off AOL, once and for all. If a Smurf can go techo-funk and jump a new ISP mothership, what should a brother fear? I got the wings, so I CAN go. Julius, maybe neither of us will never be president of the United States, but we CAN get off AOL once and for all. I haven't felt so good about quitting something since cigarettes. My 12-year association with the company is in its last days, and I am glad to be done. The money you send AOL's way every month is much better spent on a cable connection, which means you can delete faster! Lori tried to tell me this long ago, but I must have gotten distracted. - --Smurf, online AND the lines are open! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:35:27 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #21 To put Joni's work above the lyrical brilliance of Paul McCartney and the originality of John Lennon would be perverse.................................................... While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." I'm not sure where this discussion started, but my two cents: Joni ranks far above Elton - he has written few lyrics and doesn't have nearly the breadth of talent she does. Lennon and McCartney - it's true that together they wrote some absolutely flawless pop songs, but separately, not quite as hot. And nary a jazzy note there. Joni nails it for both quality and scope. Bryan Now Playing - Shawn Colvin, Polaroids/Greatest Hits (man oh man, isn't "Shotgun Down the Avalanche" an absolutely amazing song?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:26:22 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Stereophile Magazine Yo, Stereophile has a tradition of printing a few raves for classic albums from their editors in a feature called "Records To Die For". (Note to people outside of North America: "to die for" means really good. I think it has roots in Yiddish. A Manhattan hostess might say, "Try the german chocolate cake. It's so rich, it's to die for.") I don't always agree with them and I have zero knowledge about anything from classical realms at all. Anyway, in this issue they've written some nice words about several artists close to Joni and our era: Randy Newman / Good Old Boys Pink Floyd / Dark Side of the Moon Brian Wilson / Pet Sounds Live Tom Waits / Closing Time Emmylou Harris / Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town Radiohead / Hail To the Thief Neil Young & Crazy Horse / Greendale Ray Charles / Genius Loves Company The Clash / London Calling Miles Davis Quintet: 1965 - 1968 (6 CDs!) Paul Simon /Graceland Thelonius Monk / Brilliant Corners Brian Wilson / Smile Marvin Gaye / What's Goin' On? And the Editor in chief, John Atkinson, redeemed himself from a multitude of sins by picking "Shadows and Light". He noted some of the differences between the content of the CDs and the DVD. It's the February 2005 issue and it's a fine way to spend $5.99 US and a couple of hours. All the best, Jim np: Real Good, For Free (sung by CSN on "Allies") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:45:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) oh my god!! double negative!!! bob, i want a divorce. w > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Smurf > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 12:11 a.m. > Para: JRMCo1@aol.com; Justalittlebreen@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) > > Julius, maybe neither of us will never be president of > the United States, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:50:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) now wait a minute! now that everyone on aol can read my messages you're going to quit?!?! what horrors do your new servers will have in store for me? by the way, can anyone tell me why i can NEVER send e-mails to jerry notaro? why do they all bounce? jerry: do you hate me so much? w, nlt: something like a tornado outside my window. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:47:37 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al Amen, Brother Sartorius. I'd add the BBC broadcast with JT. You grouped the first Carnegie Hall show in with the Pink Dress show but I think it might stand alone... one fine day. BTW, I have the brief appearance of the Dave Brubeck Quartet on "Jazz Casual". It's worthwhile to see them do an uninterrupted take of "Blue Rondo ala Turk". Brubeck had a real bravado when laying out his manifesto about poly-tonality and poly-rhythms. i.e. "Jazz has been stuck in 4/4 time for 40 years. That's long enough I think." All the best, Jim np: Raised on Robbery on the S&L DVD. (I think the "cook" in this song is an older, sadder cousin to the 3 waitresses in Barangrill.) PS, The other day on the World Cafe, someone said that in the forthcoming Volume II of "Chronicles", Bob Dylan writes about the "Blood On the Tracks" sessions. You said, >1. The Pink Dress Concert circa 1970 ( I wouldn't mind seeing the first Carnegie Hall concert either - I attended the second one). 2. The Victoria Theatre Concert (1974). Or anything else filmed from that tour, whence came Miles of Aisles). 3. Shadows and Light 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Painting With Words and Music 6. TNT Tribute Concert> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:07:18 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Open Letter to Sadie J. McKee, was RE: Chinese Cafe Mrs. McKee, After all these years, here is your praise. A muse rarely gets a writer's credit. Lama >But the earlier stuff is almost like channelled from beyond, or from some "source" of excellence that only very few have ever tapped into.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:08:40 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) - --- Wally asked: >what horrors do your new servers > will have in store for > me? > Ain't no double negative worse than that sentence, Baby Doc. > by the way, can anyone tell me why i can NEVER send > e-mails to jerry notaro? > why do they all bounce? jerry: do you hate me so > much? > It's not that Jerry hates you, Wally! The fact is, many new computers in the US come with a block-Wally-in-Argentina feature. Jerry probably forgot to set his computer, and it's automatically going to the block-Wally default. The former Mrs. R. Kairuz, now Dr. Smurf van Tiel, PhD, RN, Esquire __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:19:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) you're so right, bob. that's what comes from changing one's mind in the middle of a sentence. still, a double negative... oh well. w, seriously bothered that i can never post jerry privately. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Smurf [mailto:smurfadelica@yahoo.com] > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 02:09 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) > > > --- Wally asked: > > >what horrors do your new servers > > will have in store for > > me? > > > > Ain't no double negative worse than that sentence, > Baby Doc. > > > by the way, can anyone tell me why i can NEVER send > > e-mails to jerry notaro? > > why do they all bounce? jerry: do you hate me so > > much? > > > > It's not that Jerry hates you, Wally! The fact is, > many new computers in the US come with a > block-Wally-in-Argentina feature. Jerry probably > forgot to set his computer, and it's automatically > going to the block-Wally default. > > The former Mrs. R. Kairuz, now Dr. Smurf van Tiel, > PhD, RN, Esquire > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:17:46 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Now hear this!!!! (NJC) Yo, Almost every time Bill Gates uses a PC in a speech, there's a funny moment when the operating system locks up. How come Jobs doesn't use humor like that? As they say in The West Wing, "I'm teeing it up for ya." Jim >Well our friend Julius has finally gotten himself a real computer. He has been converted into a MAC person. Bout time! Anyone who has not seen the Keynote address from Macworld should go to Apple.com and catch it. Steve Jobs did an amazing presentation of the new software and hardware.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:36:05 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) Wally I thought you were hip to ebonics??? Paz > oh my god!! double negative!!! bob, i want a divorce. > w > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Smurf >> Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 12:11 a.m. >> Para: JRMCo1@aol.com; Justalittlebreen@aol.com; joni@smoe.org >> Asunto: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) >> >> Julius, maybe neither of us will never be president of >> the United States, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:37:10 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Number One ? Wow! Great job, Bob. Though I agreed with you only 60% of the time, you parsed it out very deliberately. I really enjoyed reading that. Too bad you didn't sub earlier because you missed Julie Z. Webb and tons of great stuff from Kakki. All the best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:37:15 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) What about Jerry Notaro?? He has taste in puters Paz > Congratulations on your cell phone configuration to be sure, Walter. But I'm > really stoked that you've got a new Mac, too! That makes us, like, > brothers...or something, right? Paz is Mac and I know there could be more on > this > here list. (I will love them when I see them...) > > I would not feel so all alone/everybody must get, um, Macs. My next act of > technical evolution: getting the hell off AOL, once and for all. If a Smurf > can go techo-funk and jump a new ISP mothership, what should a brother fear? > I got the wings, so I CAN go. > > -Julius > > > > In a message dated 1/17/05 5:41:05 PM, Justalittlebreen@aol.com writes: > > >> As I read this, I'm proudly sitting at my new (to me -- it's a G3 but to >> me, >> it's god) Mac, wearing a brand new headset in case someone calls, with the >> cell itself resting on my crotch. Inverse distance squared, indeed. >> >> last posting today, I promise. >> >> little walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:39:23 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing I have been on quite a bit lately and I never see you there Madame Ashara. I have a list as long as your arm to download from certain people that never seem to log on. Whas up with that. Les was trying to get me to join forever and I had tech probs but now I am on and mostly no ones home. ???? Lub Paz > Anne wrote: > > < meet the whole cast in time. >> > > Cast member Ashara checking in after somewhat of a long absence from being > "under the weather" to welcome Brad and Mark and any other newbies that have > come on board. All I can say is the JMDL must be a pretty awesome place to > keep > me here for 7 plus years! YIKES!! > > For all those that have been intrigued, interested and otherwise curious > about the file sharing "thang" that Les set up, but were afraid that they were > not > "techno" enough, I am here to tell you that if "I", the MOST > non-techno-oriented of all of you can do it, than you can too! There are so > many WONDERFUL and > generous people over there to help you, and I've gotten so many great shows > from there! I will rely on Richard, Les, or one of the other technos to tell > you how to join, but seriously, it is SO easy once you have a little help from > your friends! (Thanks Les, Moni, Richard et al!!) DO IT NOW!!! You won't be > sorry! > > Hugs, > Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:44:38 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bunk! 100% JC Here's one random thought. Conventional wisdom is that after "Dog Eat Dog", Joni swore off producers. Bunk. What are "Both Sides Now" and "Travelogue" but Joni doing it Vince's way? All the best, Lam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:48:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Look ma, no AOL (njc) not when it's used by a new england R-sound hating former husband. btw, and i never had a chance to write this: miguelito, i admire you so much for all you're doing to help others. you're soooooooooo cool, michael! love, w > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Michael Paz [mailto:michael@thepazgroup.com] > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 02:36 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; Smurf; Joni Digest > Asunto: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) > > > Wally I thought you were hip to ebonics??? > > Paz > > > oh my god!! double negative!!! bob, i want a divorce. > > w > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- > >> De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Smurf > >> Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 12:11 a.m. > >> Para: JRMCo1@aol.com; Justalittlebreen@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > >> Asunto: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) > >> > >> Julius, maybe neither of us will never be president of > >> the United States, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:46:02 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) Uh oh...I know you ain't dissin'?! Did you type that for true?! And where did you get dem pantses? - -Julius In a message dated 1/17/05 9:40:53 PM, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > Wally I thought you were hip to ebonics??? > > Paz > > > oh my god!! double negative!!! bob, i want a divorce. > > w > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- > >> De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Smurf > >> Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Enero de 2005 12:11 a.m. > >> Para: JRMCo1@aol.com; Justalittlebreen@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > >> Asunto: Re: Look ma, no AOL (njc) > >> > >> Julius, maybe neither of us will never be president of > >> the United States, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:05:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? Patty Griffin & John Gorka would be on my list of top singer/songwriters... both with incredible voices & incredible songs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:29:39 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Songwriters, njc at this point I'll add John Prine, Chuck Berry, & Roger Waters to the ever-widening circle. I'll "second" Stevie Wonder. There's no doubt in my mind about Bruce Springsteen and Tori Amos. Sly Stone wrote a ton of great stuff too. Has anyone mentioned Brian, Ann or Nancy Wilson? There are many, many people who wrote wonderful songs but didn't write 10 consecutive super albums of them. I love all of the songs of James Taylor and Mike Timmins but I couldn't justify putting them in the top 10. George Harrison wrote "Something", "Wah-Wah", & "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" but he's still not in Roger Waters' league. I wouldn't want to give up "Apple Scruffs" or "Crackerbox Palace" though, eh? My top 100 musical innovators might include Marconi, Villchur, and Les Paul for their technical contributions. (Anyone want to give up their radio? The sealed box woofer and dome tweeter? Multi-track, overdub recording? The electic guitar?) But my all-time, desert island, favorite thing about music is the aspect that Thomas Edison gave us. We live in an age of recorded music. now playing in my head: Sly & The Family Stone doing "Sing a Simple Song" Let us pray, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:51:05 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: the top 10 thing, njc, too hard Em wrote: > Also I had to examine what do I think singer-songwriter means? And it > boiled down to, that one person standing or sitting on a stage alone > with JUST a piano or guitar doing songs of their own creation. You made some good points, Em. I would also ask what the particular person's definition is of a good or great song? For some people, a great song is one that is catchy, has a good melody and lyrics that are easy to remember. And then there are others that would say that a great song has a unique or complex melody and well-crafted lyrics. Still others might say a great song has lyrics of great depth and poetic quality. Another thing to bear in mind is that people of a certain age on this list have lived through a time when the music of the 20th century saw a huge expansion of acceptable subject matter for lyrics and a perhaps unprecedented experimentation with various musical styles and combinations of styles and forms. The moon/June love songs that dominated pop music almost got swept aside for a time in the 60s. The definition of a good song may have changed radically but many singers still return to the tried and true standards of Cole Porter, George & Ira Gershwin, Rogers & Hart, Harold Arlen, et al. So how do you define a great song or a great songwriter? As far as songs that are great for the shear beauty and artistry of their use of language alone, you can't beat Joni, Dylan, and Leonard Cohen. Of those three, I think Joni beats them all for overall ability to craft both lyrics and music that reach beyond the level of the ordinary. Rickie Lee Jones has written some remarkably fine songs. Some that are fun, some that are challenging, some impressionistic. Almost all of them interesting. Michael Timmins is a great lyricist and occasionally as good a composer. Paul Simon's songs that he wrote for Simon & Garfunkel are certainly among the best ever written, imo and satisfy both a desire for a thoughtful, poetic lyric and for beautiful melodies. And I don't think anybody surpasses Carly Simon when it comes to writing exquisitely crafted songs that are smarter and deeper than the average pop song. I would also cite Lucinda Williams as a fine writer and performer. As far as catchy, good pop songs go of course you can't beat Lennon and McCartney, King & Goffin or Bacharach and David. Could the team of Lennon/McCartney be considered singer/songwriters? They did both perform what they wrote for the Beatles separately and together. I've always felt that Elton and Bernie's stuff was over-rated but that's just my personal opinion. You certainly can't beat James Taylor for pretty, well-crafted songs. I'm glad Smurf brought up Emmylou Harris because I was thinking what do we do with her? Except for 'The Ballad of Sally Rose' and 'Boulder to Birmingham' she hasn't been known as a writer so much as a performer. But then she comes out with something stunning like 'Red Dirt Girl' full of amazing songs that were mostly penned by her. Can she be considered a singer/songwriter and if so, can she be considered for the top 10 based on what is a rather small output compared with Joni or Dylan? I think many of the songs on 'Red Dirt Girl' are among the most amazing I have ever heard. I also see what you mean about Joni and Bob's early songs, Em. There is certainly nothing like the freshness and wonder of music that seems to come from pure inspiration and genius. But I also think that, with Joni anyway, there was some refining of her skills before she made her first record. And I really do think that the experience she has brought to her later work has given it a wisdom and richness that was maybe not absent from her earlier songs, but is certainly there in much greater quantity now. At any rate, I think it is not fair to compare late, early or middle Joni, one with the other. To say she did her greatest work in the first half of her career is so dismissive of so much good stuff that she put so much of herself into in the second half. And I will always maintain that Joni has never done anything half-assed or put out product that she didn't believe in. Trite as it sounds, for me anyway, it's all good. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:01:54 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Number=20One=20=3F=A0=20Where's=20LN=A0=20 t?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?op=2010=3F?= Like they sing on "Sesame Street": "...how many is ten?...": *Robert Johnson *Roberta Joan Anderson Mitchell *Bob Marley *Tom Waits *Stevie Wonder *Carole King *Marvin Gaye *Ida Cox *Tracy Chapman *Jim Croce *Smokey Robinson *Carly Simon *Carla Bonoff *Neil Young *Cat Stevens *James Taylor *John Lennon *George Harrison *Townes Van Zandt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:08:10 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Number=20One=20=3F=A0=20Where's=20LN=A0=20 t?= op 10? Sorry, gang. I have no idea what happened here. At least I didn't forget "njc." - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #22 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)