From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #21 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 17 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 021 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Aluminium in moderation, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] aluminium njc [tantra_apso ] Re: DVD set [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: aluminium njc ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: A message from James Taylor (NJC) ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Number One ? [Em ] Re: Number One ? Where's LN ["mackoliver" ] Letter to Joni: Ten ideas...( long) [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Number One ? Where's LN [atel79@dsl.pipex.com] Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? [Em ] Cast of characters and Joni file sharing [AsharaJM@aol.com] the top 10 thing, njc, too hard [Em ] the top 10 singer songwriter thing again NJC [Em ] Re: Hejira musings J (song) C [Melissa Gibbs ] Re: aluminium njc [Catherine McKay ] Diana Divatude and the MAD TV(?) Train Wreck Awards (njc) [Justalittlebre] Re: aluminium njc [colin ] I'll trump that pair with a box and a cube... [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Diana Divatude and the MAD TV(?) Train Wreck Awards (njc) [Randy Remo] Re: Number One ? [Randy Remote ] Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... [Justalit] Look ma, no hands (njc) [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) [Em ] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Alzheimer and aluminium,plastics and glass njc ["Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Aluminium in moderation, njc Catherine wrote: > In any case, I'm a believer in the "all things in > moderation" principle. Like a college professor of mine who said on the last day of class: " I believe in moderation in everything, including moderation" Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:03:43 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: aluminium njc In case you hard of spelling people didn't notice the subject heading I'll write it again: ALUMINIUM. It is even said differently. i.e. just as it is spelled. Of course, the mistake could just be another example of Americans not grasping the English language.... Have a good day and smile! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:04:24 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: DVD set Bobsart wrote: I could go for a box set of DVD's featuring: 1. The Pink Dress Concert circa 1970 ( I wouldn't mind seeing the first Carnegie Hall concert either - I attended the second one). 2. The Victoria Theatre Concert (1974). Or anything else filmed from that tour, whence came Miles of Aisles). 3. Shadows and Light 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Painting With Words and Music 6. TNT Tribute Concert Maybe some bonus tracks from the earliest Joni TV appearances in the mid-60's, the CBC Unplugged show circa 1994, the movie short "The Black Cat in the Black Mouse Socks" from "Love". Hi Bob! Sounds like a dream come true, but I wonder what the cost for something like this would be. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:21:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: aluminium njc tantra_apso said: > In case you hard of spelling people didn't notice the subject heading > I'll write it again: > ALUMINIUM. > > It is even said differently. i.e. just as it is spelled. > > Of course, the mistake could just be another example of Americans not > grasping the English language.... > > Have a good day and smile! Or a progressive evolution of antiquated, Archean, quaint, outmoded ways. Keep smiling! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:23:51 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: A message from James Taylor (NJC) Looked forward to your posting this morning. Thank you! One of my students recommended that I read this book. Divided by Faith, Michael Emerson. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195147073/103-9036043-3652645 Highly recommend Hotel Rwanda, just came to Austin. Craig - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: A message from James Taylor > on this, the anniversary of his birth ... > > "Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King" > > > > SHED A LITTLE LIGHT :-( > > Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King > and recognize that there are ties between us, all men and women > living on the Earth. > Ties of hope and love, sister and brotherhood, that we are bound together > in our desire to see the world become a place in which our children > can grow free and strong. > We are bound together by the task that stands before us and the road > that lies ahead. > We are bound and we are bound. > > There is a feeling like the clenching of a fist > There is a hunger in the center of the chest > There is a passage through the darkness and the mist > And though the body sleeps the heart will never rest > > Shed a little light, oh Lord, so that we can see, just a little light, oh > Lord. > Wanna stand it on up, stand it on up, oh Lord, > wanna walk it on down, shed a little light, oh Lord. > > Can't get no light from the dollar bill, don't give me no light from > a TV screen. > When I open my eyes I wanna drink my fill from the well on the hill, > do you know what I mean? > > Shed a little light, oh Lord, so that we can see, just a little light, oh > Lord. > Wanna stand it on up, stand it on up, oh Lord, > wanna walk it on down, shed a little light, oh Lord. > > There is a feeling like the clenching of a fist, there is a hunger in > the center of the chest. > There is a passage through the darkness and the mist > and though the body sleeps the heart will never rest. > > Oh, Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King > and recognize that there are ties between us. > All men and women living on the Earth, ties of hope and love, sister > and brotherhood. > > > > > andmoreagain, > ---------------- > simon > > > PS: i DON'T have a Dream. i live in Amerika > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/mlk/sfeature/sf_video.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:31:40 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Ad Campaign Whole Foods (jonilicious) Whole Foods Market an Austin based store is opening their new mega store down on West 6th street across from their current store. I love whole foods because it is the largest natural foods market that prides themselves on civic duty. There has been quite a bit of press on their moving across the street to a empty lot that is run down to build their new store and it came to a hear this week with the following ad to announce their move. "We paved paradise and have put in a grocery stop" Ouch. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:09:19 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Number One ? A recently added entry to the Library is this article from 1992 (from London, I assume): _http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1216_ (http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1216) The best and the worst of the 20th century: singer/songwriters by Centipede ) The Guardian January 14, 1992 The sections I would like to comment on include: "THE best singer-song writer of the 20th century? "Well, naturally it's Joni Mitchell," said a friend of this column. He went on to explain that over the past 20 years her voice and her writing, her composition and her playing had reached a point of expressiveness that was unique in popular music. The implication was that while Elvis, Dylan, Jackson, Lennon, Elton, Wonder, Holly, and the Simons (Paul and Carly) are mere entertainers, Joni Mitchell's music is high art. It is difficult to agree with this; although Joni Mitchell may be elected to the top ten singer/ songwriters of the 20th century, she is not by any means the outstanding popular composer. To put Joni's work above the lyrical brilliance of Paul McCartney and the originality of John Lennon would be perverse.................................................... While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." Now me, for a few points of analysis and speculation: 1. As usual, there is the difficulty of defining the term "best". (Not to mention "singer", and "songwriter"). 2. I suspect that this author (does anyone know who "Centipede" is ?) was a bit nonplussed by his friend's opinion. And, unless I miss my guess, were it not for his respect for his friend's opinion, Joni would not have been a part of his top ten. 3. He seems uncomfortable with the distinction between "mere entertainment" and "high art". And then by declaring that Joni is by no means the "outstanding popular composer", he adds three new words to the semantics problem. 4. I readily concede that Joni is not among even the top ten "popular composers". Isn't one measure of a popular composer that one's work be popular - and, in that sense, accessible to a wide audience by virtue of its not exceeding the bounds of their ability to appreciate it? Well, there are lots of people (Carole King, Lionel Richie, don't get me started) whose songs were more popular than Joni's in the sense that they sold more and reached more people - - even if they were not as widely covered in some cases. But I agree with his friend that Joni is the "best singer songwriter" by virtue of the high quality of her art. 5. Why ? Well, to be the best, you have to be "good" - and "better" than the others. Among the group he lists, one could argue that Joni is the best singer. Oh, you could get a fight about Elvis, I suppose, and from a style point of view, I can understand putting even Bob Dylan ahead of Joni. But in terms of using the voice as an instrument - hitting difficult notes well, and phrasing them well at the same time, I would wager that Joni could do a good job singing all of their songs, but I would venture that none of those others could do much of a job with Joni's more challenging work. And, live, she doesn't run around missing note after note, like some of the others. To be a great songwriter, you have to write great songs. I have no problem placing Elvis "number one" on a list of stars, or live performers. But even if he wrote the songs attributed to him, he would not get that high a ranking from me on the songwriter list. Also, to be a songwriter, wouldn't it be nice if one wrote the words (songs do have words in my definition - but, of course, this is another undefined term)? Elton John seemed to feel he would be better off having his pal write the lyrics. I can only assume that this was a wise judgment call on his part, since he had 8 number one albums in a row. And Eric Clapton ? Anyway, one needn't be the most popular to be the best. 6. I agree with the friend's implication that Joni's work is higher art than the others'. Her 'merit' rankings in all of the relevant singer/songwriter categories (unless "best" means "most popular") are uniformly high. For me, the relevant categories are: Compositional skills Melody Writer Harmonics (chord structure, counterpoint, harmony, etc.) Rhythm Lyrics Performing skills (Live and Studio) Singing Instrumental (Dancing, Light Shows, Make-up, etc. don't count in this category, IMO) Production Skills Arrangement Editing Engineering Packaging 7. That cannot be said for the others, who fall down significantly in one area or another (though in Paul Simon's case, with singing his least strong link - he really has no weak links - he's nevertheless behind Joni in all of the categories (including instrumentalist), with the possible exception of melody writing, where it is arguably close, depending on taste). Unless I miss my guess, this list maker was not a very big Joni listener ( a common obstacle for Joni, tho not so much so at the level of music critics) - or he would not have thought it "perverse" to compare Joni's work against McCartney's lyrical brilliance or Lennon's originality (much less made a comparison of any sort between Joni and Carly). I say this as a one-time Beatle maniac, who knew all of their songs and listened to them more than to all others combined for 5 years. I love those guys, but I only occasionally put on their stuff anymore. Their art does not hold up as well as Joni's, for me. Not only is her work superior to theirs overall, but - yes - in the specific categories named (and one can easily afford not to be first in every category and still be first overall), Joni's lyrical brilliance easily exceeds McCartney's (he is not worthy of being in the same discussion with Joni, really, in this category) and her originality (another tough term to define, but I'll just run with it) easily exceeds John Lennon's as a solo artist (and also compares favorably with John's songs while he was with the Beatles, and had a little help from his friends McCartney and Martin). In fact, on a musical level, John was a better craftsman than an originator, generally staying safely within his musical roots and limits. That said, I Am The Walrus (which utilizes all 12 major chords) and Strawberry Fields, for example, were highly original works, worthy of high marks in this category. Singer/songwriter is Joni's category. She gets my vote for "best", by a lot. Of course, if you took those 10 guys and put 'em in the category of "greatest all around artist", Joni's painting would put even more distance between herself and the group. Hey, think of all the people who did not make this guy's top 10 (with a name like Centipede, perhaps it should have been a top 100). Springsteen, Wonder, Holly, Young, Jackson Browne (he didn't mean Michael Jackson, I assume), Van Morrison, Prince, Carole King, Lionel Richie, Billy Joel, James Taylor, Sting, and many more whose fans here will no doubt remind me of (including Hall of Famers, CSN). A new year, a new chance to blow off some steam.Time now to turn off this broken record. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:35:23 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? Cheers, Mona Mona A. Fitzgerald Windsor, CT 06095 USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:08:11 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Jonifest updates Thanks for the update Laurent. I still need payment information for the deposits etc. I somehow missed it when it was originally sent, could you or someone please forward this so that I can send my deposit? Thanks, Donna >>> "Laurent Olszer" 1/16/2005 8:57:32 AM >>> Hi Laurent, Any up to date list of attendees? Any ideas on who might like to share a room with me, I mean, are there any people who are obviously attending alone and who I could approach with this perhaps indelicate question. Cheers, Mike Hi That's an excellent question Mike. For those of you who wish to share rooms then we need to figure out the logistics. I was planning to work at it down the line, but you're welcome to begin the process amongst yourselves. Current attendee list: Ashara (& friend), Les Irvin, Strings, Bob Muller, Lieve, Garret, Jamie Zubairi, Catherine Mc Kay (& kids, at Fargo), John Van Tiel & Claudia (at Fargo), Emiliano, Mike Pritchard, Chris Marshall Possible attendees: Colin, Kate Bennett (& husband), Bob Sartorius (+3), Less Ross, Gordon Mackie, Anita & Gabrielle, Donna Binkley, Lucy Hone, Ron, Martin Giles, Lori Hakulinen, Marian The confirmed list is 16-17 people. We need a minimum of 30 to break even. So now is the time to do some one on one recruiting. I'm cc this to several people who told me OK in 2004 but haven't confirmed yet. We need your deposits! Regarding on site lodging: Ashara was 1st to book the upper bungalow. So now we've got to assign the lower bungalow (4 single beds) & the mill (3 singles). The early birds for those are: Lieve, Garrett, Emiliano & Chris Marshall. Then to be assigned are the B&Bs: rooms for 3 and rooms for 4. This could turn into a real french Vaudeville!! Laurent This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Number One ? Wow, heck of a post! I had this flash of Dylan covering the entire album "Blue" and I laughed and laughed, cuz that stuff is hard to sing. And then I realized that I'd love to hear how he'd do it. Very kinky thought indeed. :) Em - --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > 5. Why ? Well, to be the best, you have to be "good" - and > "better" than > the others. Among the group he lists, one could argue that Joni is > the best > singer. Oh, you could get a fight about Elvis, I suppose, and from > a style > point of view, I can understand putting even Bob Dylan ahead of > Joni. But in > terms of using the voice as an instrument - hitting difficult notes > well, and > phrasing them well at the same time, I would wager that Joni could > do a good > job singing all of their songs, but I would venture that none of > those others > could do much of a job with Joni's more challenging work. And, live, > she > doesn't run around missing note after note, like some of the others. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:39:30 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN That is one bogus list. Where did that come from? At least half of those are not even good songwriters, in my opinion. 9 men and 1 woman. That makes sense. Balderdash. And Joni beats every one of them in substance. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN > In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters > of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > > > > > I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? > > Cheers, Mona > > Mona A. Fitzgerald > Windsor, CT 06095 > USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:55:31 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Letter to Joni: Ten ideas...( long) Hi, all, Well, a sleepless night, so I thought I'd do something constructive. I was unable to devise a plan for World Peace (although hint to the current occupant of the Alabaster Mansion at 1.6K PA Ave: not what you're doing), come up with a cure for AIDS (don't get me started), or construct a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis (extremely obscure math joke, but worth a million bucks to anyone who solves it), so instead I wrote down ten ideas for the next ten Joni albums. General Rules : (i) No More Compilation Albums. (ii) On any given new album, up to half of the songs may be covers (i.e., re-recordings) of her already recorded stuff, but that's it. The rest have to be newbies, or at least (see esp. idea #3) never officially recorded before. And so, drum roll, please (this is in the order the ideas occurred to me): (1) Christmas Album. Didn't she sort of promise this one, or at least mention it as a possibility, at some point? In any case, she's already got Gift(s) of the Magi, River and Facelift as sure things, and arguably also Chinese Cafe (others?). I'd settle for her writing at least two new KwaanzaChristmaChanukah songs, and then doing as many covers as she feels like. (2) A Bossa Nova album. No, seriously. Well, okay, full disclosure: I've been bingeing on Jobim/Gilberto (both Joao and Bebel) lately. My current favorite song in the world is "Zingaro", which I'd never heard until I bought a CD that contained both of the elder Gilberto's "Amoroso" and "Brasil" albums. "Zingaro" is to die for. My beloved partner Robert, who during ten years has gotten used to my various oddities (it goes both ways, trust me), caught me laughing out loud the first time I heard the song -- I laugh or cry at the best songs -- he likes music, he likes Joni up through Hejira, but he doesn't know the language of music, so it was hard to explain to him how astonishing the song is. In some ways, it's like "Flight of the Bumblebee" with gorgeous chords gradually shifting around it (I guess you gotta hear it); certainly "chromatic" covers it to a large extent. I recall a discussion/thread started by someone on the list (sorry, don't remember who) that I responded to, in which we agreed that we wished that Joni would return to some of her more chromatic songwriting with surprising chord changes (early: think "Marcy"; late: think the bridge to "TtT", the song). This is what made me put the two together. The closest to a Latin/Brazilian sound by Joni that springs to mind are "Anima Rising" and "Dreamland", although I see possibilities in "Otis and Marlena" and even "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay". If Bossa Nova (Brazilian Portuguese for "new boss"; okay, just kidding, it means "new cow": okay, okay, sorry, I think it means "new beat" or some such thing -- my Portuguese dictionary is in the other room, and I don't want to wake the hubby) is too narrow a format, maybe Latin/Carribean/Brazilian, or even World Music (she could toss in "Jungle Line", but she still ought to write a few new songs with world themes). (3) "Twentysomething", after Jane Siberry's "Teenager". I'm a Siberry fan, but I didn't know what to expect when that album came out. What a lovely surprise -- she ended up just singing the songs accompanying herself on the guitar, much the way she'd composed them, literally when she was a teenager. Some of them, okay, are a bit... immature, lyrically, but just about all of them are starkly honest or sweetly poetic or both; several are astonishingly sophisticated (my fave -- "Broken Birds", first time I heard her sing the lines "Come to the window/...Oh, no, you don't...", I gasped, much the way I did the first time I heard her sing the line "You're chickening out, aren't you?" in "Love Is Everything", and the first time I heard the line about finding another lover for her lover in that Taxi Song, like the first time I heard Joni sing "Well,I failed/'Grow up!' I cried", etc. etc. So Joni: Jane wasn't embarrassed, and neither should you be. If you won't sing such songs as "Eastern Rain" for whatever reason, let someone else do it. Shawn Colvin? Can Kilauren sing? Maybe somebody new trying to break out?... (4) Two more stolen ideas, both from k.d. lang: "Smoke" (after "Drag"), and "Songs from the 51st Parallel". You could cover a coupla k.d. and Jane songs, but god knows there's plenty of other Canadian singer/songwriters out there (please do some Gordon Lightfoot -- you've know him, what, 40 years? Oh, Jeez, is he still alive -- I should always find these things out before writing, but typing exhausts me now, so I'm lazy on the research end -- anyhow, please cover "Beautiful", his most beautiful song imho). A third idea: Shawn C. did a cover album (called "Cover Girl", if I recall correctly) about ten years ago, in which she covered only male singer/songwriters. Since both "Drag" and "Cover Girl" are taken, you'd have to come up with something else clever. You're up to it. (5) "Painful Dis[charge]" or "Still Bitchy (After All These Years)". You know -- you could do six of your best breakup songs, and write some new ones. (6) "Swan Song". I hate to suggest this title, but if it has to be your last(?) album, it could be animal themed. No shortage of material here (DED, TT, various other songs ), but note that General Rule (ii) is still in effect. (7) "Going Native", or "First Nation, First Served". Once again, plenty of material here -- you want a challenge, get someone to translate, say, "I Am Lakhota" into Lakhota, "Song For Sharon" into Mohawk, "Paprika Plains" into Blackfoot or Cree -- well, okay maybe not that last one, you'd be 90 by the time that was finished -- but you get the idea. General Rule (ii) is still in effect. (8) "C'mon, Get Happy With Joni". Admittedly, these last three came to me when I was getting punchy around 5 a.m. Well, you could start with your masterpiece "Jericho". Um, "Morning Morgantown". "Love, Corinthians..." There are others, I'm sure, and yes, GR (ii) is still in effect. C'mon, Joni, you are happy now, what with your refound family -- which brings me to the next idea: (9) "Kid Stuff" -- As you well know, several of your mostly early songs are already kiddie classics (mostly because the kindergarten teachers are too busy wiping noses or whatever to really reflect on the lyrics), but you could certainly write some new ones, say, with your grandkids in mind. (10) Collaboration. I know, some jmdlers will shudder at the thought. There are many non-fans of your collaborative work ("HOSL" worked out pretty nicely; I personally love "Snakes and Ladders", and like "Nothing Can Be Done", but perhaps the less said about LK here the better; I didn't care for "Crazy Cries...") But I've got that book (once again, memory fails me) about you and Elvis C. carrying on the torch tradition in songwriting -- too bad he's so busy right now, what with the marriage to DK and getting her to write songs -- or, hmmm, okay what about you and Burt Bacharach, one of your few, if not your only, coeval in songwriting. He desperately needs a collaborater who does both melody and lyrics (his best work in the past twenty-plus years was with once, again Elvis C -- oh, my, what if the three of you...? But I swoon.). There, that should get you started. Love to all jmdlers (and if by some miracle, Joni, this should really meet your eyes, if I weren't as gay as pink mud and about as attractive, well, I'm about the same age as Larry, and I'd wait on you hand and foot...), Walt Breen (justalittlebreen@aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:41:31 +0000 From: atel79@dsl.pipex.com Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN Quoting Monafitz@aol.com: > In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters > of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > > > > > I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? > > Cheers, Mona > The answer to your question, Mona, is that the Centipede's column was just a forum for throwing out lists in The Independent (if memory serves) and provoking discussion; the writer did not appear to have spent more than five minutes compiling the list, and did not hold himself out as an expert, which is just as well, as you would have to be pretty darn ignorant about music to nominate Elvis as a singer-songwriter. That is not even a matter of opinion, it is pretty much fact: he was accorded a handful of co-writing credits which just about everyone in the know acknowledges were spurious. Eric Clapton? Written a few good songs, one or two great ones - his forte is neither singing nor songwriting! Elton John? A good case could be made for him and Bernie Taupin as a great songwriting team, but he is simply not a lyricist. I like a list as much as the next music punter, but this one is among the most facile I've ever seen - and I remember thinking exactly the same thing when it first appeared in 1992! And as I'm on the subject, and as we haven't had this for a while, how about a survey of whom we consider to be the greatest singer-songwriters?? I offer my list, which I also spent all of five minutes compiling, so I've probably left out some geniuses. I've omitted a few songwriters who, although they are great, have written much of their best work in collaboration (Shawn Colvin, Neil Finn, Marvin Gaye, Carole King). Order is similarly not that well thought out, but hey, it's just a bit of fun... 1. Joni Mitchell 2. Richard Thompson 3. Bob Dylan 4. Laura Nyro 5. Jane Siberry 6. David Bowie 7. Kate Bush 8. Stevie Wonder 9. Leonard Cohen 10. Todd Rundgren Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? Here goes: 1. Dylan 2. Joni & Leonard Cohen (they have to share 2nd, altho there is *more* Joni stuff I like, and I'm thankful for that) 3. Buddy Holly 4. Neil Y., JT and Cat Stevens have to share #4 cuz I can't decide 5. Elvis Costello 6. John Stewart 7. Gordon Lightfoot 8. Jerry Garcia 9. Donovan (I know - I'm weird) 9 1/2. Ralph McTell 10. Springsteen and you know there may be more.... Zevon comes to mind.... Eric Anderson, Hoyt Axton, Fred Neal, Greg Brown, Richard Shindell, Mary Chapin Carpenter..so very many - --- atel79@dsl.pipex.com wrote: > And as I'm on the subject, and as we haven't had this for a while, > how about a > survey of whom we consider to be the greatest singer-songwriters?? I > offer my > list, which I also spent all of five minutes compiling, so I've > probably left > out some geniuses. I've omitted a few songwriters who, although they > are > great, have written much of their best work in collaboration (Shawn > Colvin, > Neil Finn, Marvin Gaye, Carole King). Order is similarly not that > well thought > out, but hey, it's just a bit of fun... > > 1. Joni Mitchell > 2. Richard Thompson > 3. Bob Dylan > 4. Laura Nyro > 5. Jane Siberry > 6. David Bowie > 7. Kate Bush > 8. Stevie Wonder > 9. Leonard Cohen > 10. Todd Rundgren > > Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:24:58 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing Anne wrote: <> Cast member Ashara checking in after somewhat of a long absence from being "under the weather" to welcome Brad and Mark and any other newbies that have come on board. All I can say is the JMDL must be a pretty awesome place to keep me here for 7 plus years! YIKES!! For all those that have been intrigued, interested and otherwise curious about the file sharing "thang" that Les set up, but were afraid that they were not "techno" enough, I am here to tell you that if "I", the MOST non-techno-oriented of all of you can do it, than you can too! There are so many WONDERFUL and generous people over there to help you, and I've gotten so many great shows from there! I will rely on Richard, Les, or one of the other technos to tell you how to join, but seriously, it is SO easy once you have a little help from your friends! (Thanks Les, Moni, Richard et al!!) DO IT NOW!!! You won't be sorry! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:31:05 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: the top 10 thing, njc, too hard that was too hard really! now am guilt ridden for leaving real important people off. Plus I forgot Paul Simon. He's really maybe like 4 or 5 on my list. And like Loudon Wainwright III who you don't hear from all the time, and didn't have such great commercial suck-cess but wrote (writes?) bunches of great songs. Also I had to examine what do I think singer-songwriter means? And it boiled down to, that one person standing or sitting on a stage alone with JUST a piano or guitar doing songs of their own creation. So many can't be on there because they had to have a "band". Like Jim Morrison. Or Patti Smith. And leaving out some Europeans like Jaques Brel and Konstantin Wecker. and so many more, I'm sure. What about Woody Guthrie? Huddie Ledbetter? Robert Johnson was a singer songwriter. sheesh, so many...just have to figure out what we're using as parameters. Cuz I tend to want to think of Bernie Taupin/Elton John as an entity. sorry, rambling here..ah and speaking of "Ramblin" what about Tom Paxton?? Now there is a skillful songwriting dude, too. em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: the top 10 singer songwriter thing again NJC and another thing...so many died young that might have been STELLAR had they lived longer..ok already *were* stellar but who knows what the future might have held. Thinking of Tim Hardin, Gram Parsons .... Tim Buckley... Nick Drake. Who knows what might have been? Seems so hard for a firework to make it high into the sky so everyone gets to see it and appreciate its total splendor. So few. So many fizzle at least partially. But they had their "moments", huh? Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:47:06 +1100 From: Melissa Gibbs Subject: Re: Hejira musings J (song) C What a terrific post! I, too, have been moved by Hejira, particularly while travelling through Asia last year. While my travels took me a million miles from snow, pine wood trees and woodfires, for me Hejira is really a song about life's travels and journeys. Strangely, I find myself reflecting on the song whenever I travel, but it really is about the journey. I remember being beaten around in a four wheel drive vehicle with the words "I'm travelling in some vehicle" whirling around in my head, so it even has some literal meanings wherever I travel! Melissa in Sydney, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:40:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: aluminium njc --- tantra_apso wrote: > In case you hard of spelling people didn't notice > the subject heading > I'll write it again: > ALUMINIUM. > > It is even said differently. i.e. just as it is > spelled. > > Of course, the mistake could just be another example > of Americans not > grasping the English language.... > You're right. And wrong. In the UK, it has the -ium ending and is pronounced al-yew-MIN-ee-um. In the US and Canada (because here is one situation where we do it the American way) it ends with -um and is pronounced Al-OO-mi-num (or some might say, Al-YEW-mi-num, but that's usually them trying to be British, but only going half-way.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:11:33 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Diana Divatude and the MAD TV(?) Train Wreck Awards (njc) Hi gang, SC Joni Bob said: <> Did anyone else see the Train Wreck Awards on (I think) Mad TV (coulda been SNL)? It was an idea that I've thought about for years (obviously I wasn't alone). I don't want to spoil it by giving away too many details -- it'll be in repeats -- but Diana "Divatude" Ross was one of the presenters (the young woman doing her was dead-on -- she kept knocking her own wig off, giggling and losing track of where she was in the script). Among the nominees were Nick Nolte for Male Train Wreck of the Year, and the only multiple nominee's name is the opposite of "Courtney Hate". Robert and I kept screaming "Yes!!" and falling down laughing. best to all, Walt JustALittleBreen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:15:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: aluminium njc Catherine McKay wrote: > --- tantra_apso wrote: > > >>In case you hard of spelling people didn't notice >>the subject heading >>I'll write it again: >>ALUMINIUM. >> >>It is even said differently. i.e. just as it is >>spelled. >> >>Of course, the mistake could just be another example >>of Americans not >>grasping the English language.... >> >> >> > >You're right. And wrong. In the UK, it has the -ium >ending and is pronounced al-yew-MIN-ee-um. In the US >and Canada (because here is one situation where we do >it the American way) it ends with -um and is >pronounced Al-OO-mi-num (or some might say, >Al-YEW-mi-num, but that's usually them trying to be >British, but only going half-way.) > > > > uuummm...that is exacxtly what i pointed out-in a few words. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:45:31 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: I'll trump that pair with a box and a cube... Hi, all: Bobsart said: <> I'm sure someone esle will have beaten me to the punch on this one, but I believe a "boxed" (more like "paired") set of #4 and #5 has just been released, non? Two videos together, anyway. I wish she *would* release a real boxed set of more than two at a time, esp. older stuff like #1 and #2... just a thought, Just a little (formerly big) walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:06:01 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Diana Divatude and the MAD TV(?) Train Wreck Awards (njc) Justalittlebreen@aol.com wrote: > Did anyone else see the Train Wreck Awards on (I think) Mad TV (coulda been > SNL)? It was an idea that I've thought about for years (obviously I wasn't > alone). I don't want to spoil it by giving away too many details -- it'll be > in repeats -- but Diana "Divatude" Ross was one of the presenters (the young > woman doing her was dead-on -- she kept knocking her own wig off, giggling and > losing track of where she was in the script) That was SNL's Maya Rudoph (daughter, btw of singer Minnie Riperton). I kept flashing on her spoof while Ms. Ross was doing her thing. I'm no big fan of post-Supremes Diana, but didn't think she was THAT bad.... No one mentioned two high points of the evening-Mary J Blige singing the crap out of Stevie Wonder's "Love's In Need of Love Today" and Brian Wilson's heart-wrenching rendition of "Love and Mercy". Yeah, he missed a few notes, but devastated me anyway. Also, Stevie Wonder and India Arie doing Stevie's yet-to-be-released new single, "Time To Love". RR ps US gov't financial pledge to tsunami relief = 1 1/2 days of Iraq ops ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:13:31 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Number One ? Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: (The Guardian said:) > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > Elvis??? As a songwriter?? I know he dabbled, but come on...Clapton is a bit of a stretch, too. Definitely a honkycentric list, Marley notwithstanding. Antonio Carlos Jobim should be on there. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:28:38 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... Still out of lurkdom for the moment -- Em wrote <> Hmmm. I do tend to sort of agree with Em's comment on Joni's earlier as opposed to later *musical* work. I think good work -- whether it be music, visual art, mathematics, quantum phsyics -- pours out of gifted people's minds and souls faster in youth than in their maturity. And a lot of people seem to go through a second-act slump, only to recover nicely in the third act (speaking of which, has everybody gone out and bought Melissa Manchester's most recent album? -- I wasn't aware of it until this past fall -- possibly the best of her career); but if you truly sit *out* your second act, like, say Fagen/Becker (=Steely Dan) more or less did, and Phoebe Snow seems to have, you *may* get a chance to shine, a la Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature", a masterpiece, or sadsadsad, you may be robbed of your Second Act because youthful overindulgence or an understandably bad reaction to fame (too many to mention in the late '60's/early '70's), or slog through your Second Act only to be robbed of your third (sadsadsadsadsad: Laura Nyro). For what it's worth, I sorta liked Burt B's and Laura N's stuff in the '80's, just as I liked Joni's, even if i recognized the stuff as just sort of keeping the whetstone turning. So Phoebe, and anyone else who may have gotten disgusted with the music biz in the late '70's or whenever, listen up: There are other places to record than L.A.; Melissa M. said Nashville revived her (n.b.: the album is *not* CW) -- maybe try there. Also, as i mentioned in a lengthy earlier post, Jane Siberry went back to her roots, unearthed some lovely early songs and put out a wonderful album "Teenager" s she turned 40. I know Joni just sorta did it with Trav., but I mean the *really* early stuff, that remains heard only on bootleg of varying quality, or among dear Friends Of Joni. A quick note about Joni's art -- imho, it's been all over the map, but generally speaking, I think it's gotten *better* with maturity. Short posting, my ass -- I've got to stop believing myself. And, forgive me for closing a tad bitchily, esp. on this day, but, please, enough with the Aluminum Can Poisoning postings; I can think of six things off the top of my head that are worse than potential ACP (I can see the pharmaceutical ads now: "ACP -- Don't Let It Can You"), and between us, say Mingus and I have them all, and three of them kept me from sleeping last night. Sorry about that last part, best to all, Walt "justalittletired" B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:38:02 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Look ma, no hands (njc) Dennis D. writes: <> As I read this, I'm proudly sitting at my new (to me -- it's a G3 but to me, it's god) Mac, wearing a brand new headset in case someone calls, with the cell itself resting on my crotch. Inverse distance squared, indeed. last posting today, I promise. little walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:57:42 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) Congratulations on your cell phone configuration to be sure, Walter. But I'm really stoked that you've got a new Mac, too! That makes us, like, brothers...or something, right? Paz is Mac and I know there could be more on this here list. (I will love them when I see them...) I would not feel so all alone/everybody must get, um, Macs. My next act of technical evolution: getting the hell off AOL, once and for all. If a Smurf can go techo-funk and jump a new ISP mothership, what should a brother fear? I got the wings, so I CAN go. - -Julius In a message dated 1/17/05 5:41:05 PM, Justalittlebreen@aol.com writes: > As I read this, I'm proudly sitting at my new (to me -- it's a G3 but to > me, > it's god) Mac, wearing a brand new headset in case someone calls, with the > cell itself resting on my crotch. Inverse distance squared, indeed. > > last posting today, I promise. > > little walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:06:17 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) I am Mac-ed too. G3 Lime iMac at home, G3 beige tower at work and a gray and white "disco" G4 at work too. Oh and an old 8500 at work too. :) Love 'em all! Em - --- JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Congratulations on your cell phone configuration to be sure, Walter. > But I'm > really stoked that you've got a new Mac, too! That makes us, like, > brothers...or something, right? Paz is Mac and I know there could > be more on > this > here list. (I will love them when I see them...) > > I would not feel so all alone/everybody must get, um, Macs. My next > act of > technical evolution: getting the hell off AOL, once and for all. If > a Smurf > can go techo-funk and jump a new ISP mothership, what should a > brother fear? > I got the wings, so I CAN go. > > -Julius > > > > In a message dated 1/17/05 5:41:05 PM, Justalittlebreen@aol.com > writes: > > > > As I read this, I'm proudly sitting at my new (to me -- it's a G3 > but to > > me, > > it's god) Mac, wearing a brand new headset in case someone calls, > with the > > cell itself resting on my crotch. Inverse distance squared, > indeed. > > > > last posting today, I promise. > > > > little walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:08:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) **I got the wings, so I CAN go. AOL has officially dropped some States with its DSL coverage, SC being one of them, so I'll be signing on with Charter cable as my ISP soon. I'll retain my AOL account for a couple of months until I can transition away from it. Certainly not my choice, I've always been really happy with AOL but I can't go back to being on a dial-up. Bob NP: Mindy Smith, "Come To Jesus" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:07:56 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Look ma, no hands (njc) all the really cool people are on Macs, Julius! Vince iMac and proud Muskegon: my once and new home: Catch the Wave with a new Muskegon web site http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us On Jan 17, 2005, at 8:57 PM, JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Congratulations on your cell phone configuration to be sure, Walter. > But I'm > really stoked that you've got a new Mac, too! That makes us, like, > brothers...or something, right? Paz is Mac and I know there could be > more on > this > here list. (I will love them when I see them...) > > I would not feel so all alone/everybody must get, um, Macs. My next > act of > technical evolution: getting the hell off AOL, once and for all. If > a Smurf > can go techo-funk and jump a new ISP mothership, what should a brother > fear? > I got the wings, so I CAN go. > > -Julius > > > > In a message dated 1/17/05 5:41:05 PM, Justalittlebreen@aol.com writes: > > >> As I read this, I'm proudly sitting at my new (to me -- it's a G3 but >> to >> me, >> it's god) Mac, wearing a brand new headset in case someone calls, >> with the >> cell itself resting on my crotch. Inverse distance squared, indeed. >> >> last posting today, I promise. >> >> little walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:39:02 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Alzheimer and aluminium,plastics and glass njc NE: garlic, chick peas, and spinach soup..(magical. ) Cooked in aluminum. Bree >>Marianne >ne (now eating): peas and onion omlet ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #21 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)