From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #20 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 17 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 020 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Alzheimer's and aluminum, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Alzheimer's and aluminum, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Chinese Cafe ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Chinese Cafe ["Azeem" ] Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC njc [colin ] Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Chinese Cafe [Em ] (NJC) Very excellent radio station [Lori Fye ] RE: tsnami forecaster, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Dryden,=20sad=A0=20NJC?= [JRMCo1@aol.com] Now hear this!!!! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #17 [Dennis Derkacs ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #17 [Dennis Derkacs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:30:27 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al Bob Muller replied to Mark: "Mark, I'm pretty sure that the footage comes from her 1974 London appearance which was filmed and excerpts have appeared on other sources as well, mainly The Old Grey Whistle Test BBC show." That sounds right to me, too, judging by the dress and the fact that so little was filmed from that time frame. Simon's appearance list on Joni Mitchell.com indicates that footage is from the Sunday show of 4/22/74 (even though the Whistle Test show refers to the concert as being 'back in May of this year'). A review of the Saturday 4/21 show at the same venue (Victoria Theatre) was included in 'The Joni Mitchell Companion". It also appears in The Library at JMDL. (Joni had a different dress on that night, according to the review). _http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=349_ (http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=349) It's quite the review. A second review of the same concert also appear in The Library. These critics, as you will see, very nearly lose their professional composure and with it some dignity in their over the top admiration for her talents. She was really something back then. _http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=183_ (http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=183) Mark, if you do not have The Whistle Test tape, you really ought to get it. I viewed it today for about the 20 th time, and put on a little guitar accompaniment to A Case of You (cause I was in the mood.) That said, it would have been nice if that show had contained the entire concert, instead of just snippets (for example, it does not contain The Same Situation). It would be really something if that show were turned into a DVD - come on, Joni, get the BBC to clean it up and release it !!!!! I could go for a box set of DVD's featuring: 1. The Pink Dress Concert circa 1970 ( I wouldn't mind seeing the first Carnegie Hall concert either - I attended the second one). 2. The Victoria Theatre Concert (1974). Or anything else filmed from that tour, whence came Miles of Aisles). 3. Shadows and Light 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Painting With Words and Music 6. TNT Tribute Concert Maybe some bonus tracks from the earliest Joni TV appearances in the mid-60's, the CBC Unplugged show circa 1994, the movie short "The Black Cat in the Black Mouse Socks" from "Love". Of course, Joni's already give us the DVD's in 3, 4 and 5, above, along with the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD. What do y'all think ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Alzheimer's and aluminum, njc Jumping in here on a thing about which I know very little which is, in so many ways, worse than not knowing anything, and finally lured out of my semi-comatose condition by that damned Smurf... I've read (OK, skimmed) a number of articles on the Alzheimers/aluminum connection and it seems to me the jury is out on this. They have discovered higher concentrations of aluminum in the brains of Alzheimers patients (after they're dead, I hope), but it's not all the certain how it got there. Did it get there and cause Alzheimers because the person ingested too much aluminum? or is the appearance of aluminum in their brains caused by their having Alzheimers? Either? neither? both? I dunno. I'm not a doctor, nor a scientist, I just read a lot of stuff partly because of my job and partly because I'm just plain nosy (or is it nosey?) In any case, I'm a believer in the "all things in moderation" principle. I don't care for drinking things out of cans and I don't like to eat anything that comes out of a can. To me, it always tastes weird and I don't like the feel of metal against my teeth while I'm tossing back a cold one. I don't care for plastic either, especially styrofoam. If I get coffee in a styrofoam cup on the way to work, I pour it into a mug when I get to work (Yeah, a plastic mug! and then sometimes I stick THAT in the microwave to warm it up, no doubt releasing a myriad of deadly plasticized carcinogens into the chemicalized caffein product and then ingesting it - -mmmmmm yummy! - or maybe a ceramic one painted with something that contains lead, cobalt, or other lovely metals.) I do NOT trust styrofoam one bit and plastic is creepy and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's laden with carcinogens galore. In fact, I'm sure it is. Think about digoxin, or is it dioxin? One's used as a heart drug (also shows up in mass quantities in dead people who have been taking it, such that it's hard to tell if they had an overdose, or does it, once again, occur naturally in people with these kinds of heart defects?); the other is the PCB stuff that requires very little to kill. Y'know, I COULD look this stuff up, but I'm not gonna! They're all connected here. Like Marianne, I prefer glass. It's real purdy. I like the blue stuff - pretty but probably full of cobalt and also deadly. Oh yeah, it also breaks and splinters. But given my druthers, I druther have glass. It comes from sand, who'd'a thought? --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Mark wrote: > > > Hi Laura. > > I'm not sure what studies you could be referring to > but, according to > the Neuroscience Department at the Australian > National University, > there is currently no hard evidence that aluminium > causes any such > brain damage leading to any such disease. Ingesting > any heavy metals is > a risk to the health of all human organs but, the > suggestion several > years ago that aluminium has a connection to > Alzheimer's Disease was > dismissed at least ten years ago. > > > Hi Mark, > > Aluminum might have been dismissed ten years ago > and at various points > in time between then and now, but it always comes > back up in the literature as > having a possible role in Alzheimer's. Like I said > before, I go by the > "better safe than sorry" principle. > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:01:26 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Alzheimer's and aluminum, njc - --- Catherine wrote: > finally lured out of my > semi-comatose condition by that damned Smurf... (SNIP) > I > like > the blue stuff > Awwwwww. You sentimental nut! XO, - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:18:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Alzheimer's and aluminum, njc --- Smurf wrote: > > --- Catherine wrote: > > > finally lured out of my > > semi-comatose condition by that damned Smurf... > > (SNIP) > > > I > > like > > the blue stuff > > > > Awwwwww. You sentimental nut! > > XO, > > --Smurf > > Dear old Smurf. Always one to find the blue connection. Isn't it great how interconnected everything is, and how it all comes down to you? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:57:41 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe some bonus tracks from the earliest Joni TV appearances in the > mid-60's, the CBC Unplugged show circa 1994, the movie short "The > Black Cat in the Black Mouse Socks" from "Love". > > Of course, Joni's already give us the DVD's in 3, 4 and 5, above, > along with > the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD. > > What do y'all think ? Sounds wonderful to me, Bob. I would also like to see the post-Woodstock Dick Cavett show on dvd. Myself, I would like to have the entire show because I love Jefferson Airplane so much. Grace was the first one on her feet applauding after Joni's first song. Crosby and Stills were there but not Nash. I wonder if Joni would have sung 'Willy' if Graham had actually been there. Joni looked stunningly gorgeous and her performances were sterling. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:06:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC Jerry Notaro wrote: And Diana, was a disaster. Looked awful, > and sounded worse. Diana really did not come off well at all. Her dress was awful and she looked like she was stoned. Her pitch was very erratic as well. And really she was about the only performer who brought a star-diva attitude to the proceedings. Although 'Reach Out and Touch Somebody's Hand' was an appropriate choice, she made it obvious that the performance was all about Diana and not about the cause. My opinion, anyway. At the end of the song when she spread her arms out, my comment to Travis was 'There's nobody there to applaud, Diana.' He just chuckled. I am certainly no fan of Madonna's and when she started singing 'Imagine' I had a hard time not gagging. But I have to give her credit. Even though she's no great singer, she at least didn't do the major diva thing. Her performance was pretty honest and straigthforward. Diana should have taken her cue from Madonna. Mark E. in Seattle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:23:41 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Chinese Cafe Azeem wrote: > Me again: obviously it would be fatuous to have an argument about > this, it all being "imho" and all, but for what it's worth, and as an > alternative view on Joni's latter career, I can state unequivocally > that I don't consider any of these songs to be *great*, although Man > From Mars and Two Grey Rooms are not far off; there are some very good > songs there, though none is fit to be considered alongside her > numerous masterpieces from the 60s and 70s. Some of these songs I > think are ordinary. As you said, Azeem, this is all a matter of opinion. But for what it's worth, I think quite a few of the songs on my list show Joni's songwriting skills at their peak. She displays a depth and maturity in some of her later work that she couldn't possibly have acheived in her 20s and 30s. Granted that her work in that time period showed an amazing amount of perception and skill. But I really think that when she began to shift her focus outward it added new dimensions to her writing. Life experience and years of experience in songwriting also enhanced her work. 'Magdalene Laundries' is a prime example of a gut-wrenching, haunting, beautiful song that she wrote about someone else's experience. An experience that she could, perhaps, strongly relate to. But nonetheless, someone else's story. My opinion, anyway. Respectfully, Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:57:43 -0000 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: Chinese Cafe I wrote: << I believe it is the last truly GREAT song she wrote >> Sharon (I think) replied: << Yikes - she did write Stay In Touch and Man From Mars after this >> And Mark added: << Not to mention: The Beat of Black Wings The Tea Leaf Prophecy The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog Tax Free Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home Passion Play Slouching Toward Bethlehem Cherokee Louise Sunny Sunday Borderline Turbulent Indigo The Sire of Sorrow Come in From the Cold Fiction Love Puts on a New Face Face Lift Harlem in Havana The Magdalene Laundries >> Me again: obviously it would be fatuous to have an argument about this, it all being "imho" and all, but for what it's worth, and as an alternative view on Joni's latter career, I can state unequivocally that I don't consider any of these songs to be *great*, although Man From Mars and Two Grey Rooms are not far off; there are some very good songs there, though none is fit to be considered alongside her numerous masterpieces from the 60s and 70s. Some of these songs I think are ordinary. Anyway, the reason I love Joni isn't because she has been writing some pretty good songs and some iffy ones for the last quarter of a century; it's because of her unparalleled achievements in the decade before that. If her career had started with Wild Things Run Fast, I'm sure this discussion list would be here, but there wouldn't be as many people on it; I certainly wouldn't be part of it, and I doubt I'm the only one. Azeem in London - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 26/11/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:26:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I also thought Jay Leno's appearances as the MC were forced and > awkward. He didn't know whether to try and play it for laughs > (laughs?) or what. He > seemed really insincere about the whole thing. Yeah I could have done without Leno, too. But then I'm not a particular fan of his. I prefer Letterman's schtick to Leno's. Even though Leno has tried to appropriate a lot of Letterman's over the years, imo. Mark E. in....well, you know ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:27:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC njc Mark or Travis wrote: > > > I am certainly no fan of Madonna's There was a tv doc here the other day about Kabbalah, a cult Madonna is heavily into. If she din't know about all the shit done with groiup, I wonder what her reaction will be when she sees the doc. They tried to intervierw her at one of thei conventions but she ignored them. It would be good to think that Madonna does not know what is behind this group. I do hope not because if she does know, and always has, and worse believes it, then she has no creditibilty at all and is thick after all. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:34:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tsunami telethon on NBC Oh, and after I wrote my original review, I remembered John Mayer's explosive take on Hendrix's "Axis-Bold As Love". I thought it was pretty smokin' too. Bob NP: Anna Nalick, "Breathe (2AM)" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: RE: Chinese Cafe Hi Azeem I also feel the same way. Have been thinking about this the last few days. I'm thinking the post Hejira stuff is on a par with her painting. Quite skillful, masterful, insightful...all that. But the earlier stuff is almost like channelled from beyond, or from some "source" of excellence that only very few have ever tapped into. In the interview on 60 Minutes, Bob Dylan said about his early work that he doesn't really know where it came from, or how he did it. That wellspring. And that he couldn't do it again. And about, (I think he was talking about "Tamborine Man"), he said something like, "man sit down and TRY writing that". Like it just ain't happening. Can't be done at will or by discipline. Because the source for that level of writing is not something that can be summoned at will. And Joni Mitchell had it! For quite a few years! And lucky for us, she cranked out numerous holy jewels. Certainly the rest of her stuff is really good too, but the Hejira and earlier..I dunno, that's more special than almost anything. Just on a WHOLE 'nuther level. and as you noted Azeem, this is all "imho". But it dawned on me the other day that her later stuff is about as good as her painting. Her earlier music stuff though, is like the painting of a master. A Van Gogh, a David, a Rembrandt, you get the picture - one of the all time greats. Something that matters in history. Em - --- Azeem wrote in his post: > though none is fit to be considered alongside her > numerous > masterpieces from the 60s and 70s. Some of these songs I think are > ordinary. > > Anyway, the reason I love Joni isn't because she has been writing > some > pretty good songs and some iffy ones for the last quarter of a > century; > it's because of her unparalleled achievements in the decade before > that. > If her career had started with Wild Things Run Fast, I'm sure this > discussion list would be here, but there wouldn't be as many people > on > it; I certainly wouldn't be part of it, and I doubt I'm the only one. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:06:50 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Very excellent radio station I guess you could say this is possible JC, but I don't think I've heard Joni on it yet. Still, have a listen. It loads really fast. http://ccri.eonstreams.com/ccri_mn_minneapolis_ktcz_fm.asf Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:11:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: tsnami forecaster, njc She is certainly very connected to these kinds of things on occasion. I guess its like the animals who know before something is going to happen. > Your friend must not have lost her connection to the environment like most human doings have. Way cool! Love, Laura< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:30:14 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Dryden,=20sad=A0=20NJC?= So, Maggie dear, when can we expect to see YOUR memoirs on our bookstore shelves? I'd love to hear your memories of the Sixties forward...but then again, as they say, if your remember, you probably weren't there, right? Gotta admit, the lion's share of memories of touring with the Grateful Dead from the Eighties on are, like, a blur...tracer vapor, if you will (and some won't). I think I'm having a flashback even as I type. Are you gonna write the book? - -Julius In a message dated 1/14/05 9:22:09 AM, mm@celebrityseries.org writes: > Hi, Em. Thanks for sharing this...makes me sad, too. LOVED the Airplane > when they first came out with Surrealistic Pillow. That, and The Doors were > the two albums that lifted me off in my high school years. I don't mean with > drugs - that came later, as I didn't have access in little, isolated, Dexter, > Maine [just as well, I'm sure of that] - but with opening my mind and body > to what music could be...oh yeah. So thanks, Spencer. > > Maggie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:37:58 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Now hear this!!!! (NJC) Well our friend Julius has finally gotten himself a real computer. He has been converted into a MAC person. Bout time! Anyone who has not seen the Keynote address from Macworld should go to Apple.com and catch it. Steve Jobs did an amazing presentation of the new software and hardware. I was inspired to go out and buy an I-Sight (camera) so I can do video conferencing. It will help in what I am doing as well as being nice for keeping up with my family and friends. I am available for videoconference on AIM or Ichat (MichaelPaz). Anybody have cameras out there?? Later Paz NP-The Globes P.S. BTW last night concert had its highs and los for me as well. I hated Madonna but then I always do. I agree with Mark tho that at least she kept in real unlike my other hometown girl who's head was up her arse. We missed the video portion but heard it on the car when we were on the way to a party. Highs for me were John Mayer, Roger and Eric and I though Norah was great. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:40:09 -0700 From: Dennis Derkacs Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #17 All: I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Joni but if you are concerned about microwave radiation from cell phones remember that the exposure is reduced by the inverse of the distance squared. So, a short distace away has a powerful effect. I know of no studies that show any danger to parts of the body other than the brain but how difficult is it to simply use a mic and ear set and keep the phone in your pocket, bag, backpack, or table? dd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:40:09 -0700 From: Dennis Derkacs Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #17 All: I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Joni but if you are concerned about microwave radiation from cell phones remember that the exposure is reduced by the inverse of the distance squared. So, a short distace away has a powerful effect. I know of no studies that show any danger to parts of the body other than the brain but how difficult is it to simply use a mic and ear set and keep the phone in your pocket, bag, backpack, or table? dd ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #20 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)