From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2005 #18 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, January 16 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 018 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Chinese Cafe ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Bless the Beast ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: aluminum, etc. njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Bless the Beast ["mackoliver" ] Re: aluminum, etc. njc [Em ] Re: aluminum, etc. njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: aluminum, etc. njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: aluminum, etc. njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: flu njc ["hell" ] RE: hits ["hell" ] Dennis' question ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc [bob murphy ] Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc [Mark-Leon Thorne ] aluminium, etc, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Jonifest ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: The Same Situation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: aluminum, etc. njc ["Kate Bennett" ] A message from James Taylor [simon@icu.com] Birthday: MLK Jr, njc I suppose ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Tsunami telethon on NBC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Released 30 years ago today, "Blood On the Tracks" , njc ["ron" Subject: Re: Chinese Cafe StDoherty@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 01/14/2005 3:06:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, > les@jmdl.com writes: > > I believe it is the last truly GREAT song she wrote > Yikes - she did write Stay In Touch and Man From Mars after this .... Not to mention: The Beat of Black Wings The Tea Leaf Prophecy The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog Tax Free Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home Passion Play Slouching Toward Bethlehem Cherokee Louise Sunny Sunday Borderline Turbulent Indigo The Sire of Sorrow Come in From the Cold Fiction Love Puts on a New Face Face Lift Harlem in Havana The Magdalene Laundries Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:31:02 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Bless the Beast Mark E. in Seattle (Does anyone else remember a movie called 'Bless the Beasts and Children?' Carpenters did the title song.) From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Mark, what a flashback! I was a bedwetter at a young age and had felt such pain as I watched that movie, the ending was oh so sad. It made me always root for the underdog, Peace, Mingus I wasn't a bed wetter but something about those boys and the way they were treated struck a very deep chord with me. I was in high school when I saw this movie. I went to the local shopping mall theatre to see it by myself. I went to a lot of movies by myself in those days. I remember trying to restrain myself from running out of the mall to get to the car because I was on the verge of tears and at 17 or 18 it would have been highly uncool to be seen crying in the mall. I got into the car and burst out sobbing. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:50:02 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc Considering the fact that cola can be used as paint/rust remover, it's not at all far fetched to think that it will leach the aluminum in a can. And, are the billions of cans completely free of minute aluminum particles? (These soft drinks are poisonous even in glass, btw). Don't cook in aluminum. Look at all the pitting in an old aluminum cooking utensil. Don't use a metal utensil to stir a stainless steel pan. You will be scratching the bottom, releasing highly toxic nickel and chromium into your food. http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/14/stainless_steel.htm Don't rub aluminum into sensitive bodily areas (ie deordorant is full of aluminum). Shaving, followed by antiperspirant intensifies the danger manyfold, and may be linked to breast cancer: http://www.mercola.com/2004/jan/28/deodorant_cancer.htm There are many natural deodorants available, google "deodorant" and "aluminum" for more info. Rats given aluminum in quantities found in humans develop dementia. Aluminum also causes bone degeneration. Bauxite mines (where aluminum comes from) are extremely toxic places. Adding seaweed to your diet can remove the accumulation of heavy metals in your body (even radioactive elements), besides being more vitamin and mineral rich than "land" vegetables. I have an aluminum cel phone, but I can't remember where I put it.... RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:50:26 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Bless the Beast Sure Mark. Sometime in the seventies. My brother was visiting for the summer and we were walking aroud town. Happened upon the drive in movie where it was showing. We just walked in the back way, naughty but we didn't even realize that at the time, and watched most of the movie. Had a profound effect on him, the movie. Starred Billy Mumy from Lost in Space. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark or Travis" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:31 PM Subject: Re: Bless the Beast > Mark E. in Seattle > (Does anyone else remember a movie called 'Bless the Beasts and Children?' Carpenters did the title > song.) > > From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com > Mark, what a flashback! I was a bedwetter at a young age and had felt such pain as I watched that > movie, the ending was oh so sad. It made me always root for the underdog, > Peace, > Mingus > > I wasn't a bed wetter but something about those boys and the way they were treated struck a very > deep chord with me. I was in high school when I saw this movie. I went to the local shopping mall > theatre to see it by myself. I went to a lot of movies by myself in those days. I remember trying > to restrain myself from running out of the mall to get to the car because I was on the verge of > tears and at 17 or 18 it would have been highly uncool to be seen crying in the mall. I got into > the car and burst out sobbing. > > Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:12:41 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc soooooooo, does this mean I should stick to bottled beer? Then I'll know it was the alcohol that gave me the Alzheimers and not the aluminum? :) Em - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Probably not much of a risk, but I choose to avoid drinking from > > aluminum cans on a regular basis. > > Is there any other food which is in contact with aluminium and which > we > don't think is dangerous but really is? > > You might find this interesting along these lines: > > "Although aluminum is not a heavy metal, environmental exposure is > frequent, > leading to concerns about accumulative effects and a possible > connection > with Alzheimer's disease (Anon. 1993). Acute exposure is more likely > in the > workplace (e.g., unintentional breathing of aluminum-laden dust from > > manufacturing or metal finishing processes). > Chronic exposure may occur in the workplace from accumulated > exposures to low > levels of airborne aluminum dust and handling aluminum parts during > assembly > processes over many years. In the home, we are in constant contact > with > aluminum in foods and in water; from cookware and soft drink cans; > from consuming > items with high levels of aluminum (e.g., antacids, buffered > aspirin, or > treated drinking water; or even by using nasal sprays, toothpaste, > and > antiperspirants) (Anon. 1993; ASTDR ToxFAQs? for Aluminum). Citric > acid (e.g., in > orange juice) may increase aluminum levels by its leaching activity. > > Interestingly, aluminum-based coagulants are used in the purification > of > water. However, the beneficial effects of using aluminum in water > treatment have > been balanced against the potential health concerns. Water > purification > facilities follow a number of approaches to minimize the level in > "finished" > water (WHO 1998)." > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:37:46 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc Randy wrote: I have an aluminum cel phone, but I can't remember where I put it.... Hi Randy! Have you looked in the seaweed recently? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:35:22 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc EM wrote: soooooooo, does this mean I should stick to bottled beer? Hi Em, Definitely! Love, Laura (a friend of Bill W.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:46:12 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc Paz wrote: They gave him a medication that slowed his memory loss down quite a bit Hi Paz! Since you have Alzheimer's disease in your family, you might consider taking ibuprofen every day yourself. I know from my research and more recent findings that ibuprofen can help keep the process from occuring if taken early enough, before the disease produces clinically detectable signs. People who have suffered from arthritis and take ibuprofen on a regular basis have been noted to not get Alzheimer's disease. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:58:39 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: flu njc Vince wrote: > This is short. No one needs reply really, I have been a horrid > corresondent of late. Having just moved, new job, I have not had > much Joni time but I read everything because I cherish this > community. Anyway I started coming down with the flu - the real > flu - on Monday. Tuesday was horrid, Wednesday just one of the > worst days ever, and today is horrid so I suppose that is a step up. Sorry you've had such a hard time lately. One of my pet peeves is people saying "I've got the 'flu", when they've really only got a cold. If you've ever had the 'flu (and I've had it twice in the last 10 years) you definitely know the difference! And I'd take a dozen colds over one case of influenza any day - it's not pleasant! Anyway, I hope your recovery is swift, and you're back to full health very soon! Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:06:33 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: hits Rob (my long-lost twin) wrote: > Mark in Smartassville wrote about the merits of "Moon at the > Window" being the best from WTRF - well, Rob here from > Cheeseville has to admit my favorite from WTRF (although Chinese > Cafe is probably ARTISTICALLY better) is "Underneath the > Streetlights", which I would surmise that most people dislike. > However, I love it for sentimental reasons, and damn, our Joan > just sounds so happy when she's crazy in love! I agree, it's a very "happy" song, which is unusual for our Joan! I do love that song as well, but still rate Chinese Cafe as the best on the album - it's the lyrics that do it for me. Especially that first line, "Caught in the middle", which sums up that middle-aged feeling perfectly. Not that I'm there yet (at least I don't think I am!) but it's looming over the horizon! > Keep warm (minus 51 here with the windchill - I am not making this up), It's 23 Celcius here today (74 F) and a gorgeous sunny day. I might go for a swim in a friend's pool later, although I'll need to cover up because I got a little sunburnt playing golf yesterday.... jealous yet?! Hell - gloating because summer's finally arrived (a month late, but at least it's here now) _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:10:02 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Dennis' question Dennis, Welcome to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List (JMDL). I'm sure someone has already answered your post but I'll chime in anyway. (Bob Muller in South Carolina is usually very quick.) Joni's retired from the writing songs but she did a short tour in 2000 to support the "Both Sides Now" collection. Travel is harder on some people than others and Joni usually gets sick. She doesn't care for live performing much. There are some audience recordings in circulation of the "Both Sides Now" tour and many others. You can send me some blank cassettes or blank CDs with return postage within the US, if you promise not to try to sell them. Write to me off-list if you want some. Now I need to ask a favor. When you send a reply to the list, would you take out all of the quoted material in your reply before you start typing? If you don't it ends up sending page after page back to the list. Your reply automatically contains the entire Digest so you need to delete it. An easy way to avoid that extra step is to open a New email (instead of a Reply). Address it to joni@smoe.org and you'll be set. Thanks. All the best, Lama Covington, KY, US Dennis Derkacs <> asked, in part, >Why is Joni not singing? I understand that she has had some vocal cord problems.> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:29:05 -0500 From: bob murphy Subject: Re: Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc Marianne Rizzo wrote: > What else aluminum that should avoid? I cannot recall right now. . Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Very funny, Marianne, and I am not sure you meant it! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:33:18 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc Marianne Rizzo wrote: >What else aluminum that should avoid? I cannot recall right now. . Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Very funny, Marianne, and I am not sure you meant it! - --Smurf I don't see the joke. . rather dense am I, sometimes (oh and nobody usually gets my jokes either. . so when they do I think its this great accomplishment) oh, and on THAT subject. . . anytime you can make somebody smile, I think that is an accomplishment too. With love Marianne Marianne Rizzo wrote: _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:25:47 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Alzheimer vs aluminium, njc Hi Laura. I'm not sure what studies you could be referring to but, according to the Neuroscience Department at the Australian National University, there is currently no hard evidence that aluminium causes any such brain damage leading to any such disease. Ingesting any heavy metals is a risk to the health of all human organs but, the suggestion several years ago that aluminium has a connection to Alzheimer's Disease was dismissed at least ten years ago. Mark in Sydney. On 16/01/2005, at 3:13 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > There are some > reputable studies that do provide some evidence that it might play a > role in > Alzheimer's disease. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:36:40 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: The Same Situation Hi everyone. Does anyone know which concert the footage is from that Joni sings The Same Situation and others on the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD? Mark in Sydney. NP Ladies of The Canyon - Annie Lennox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:42:34 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: aluminium, etc, njc > From: Michael Paz > Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc > > My dad has the dreaded Alzheimer's/Dementia and over the last year has > gotten much worse. His doctor has told us that it has a lot to do with > heavy > drinking. She did not mention anything about the cans. It seems like the > humans have painted themselves into a corner with all crap that we consume > and can't seem to live without. They gave him a medication that slowed his > memory loss down quite a bit and it works better if you catch it earlier. > Once it really gets going though it is really a scary thing. > > Best > > Paz > That's terrible news, wish you all the best. You're right, seems like nothing is safe. Then look at the ones with a healthy lifestyle who still die young of cancer or aneurism or going to the beach in Thailand. So carpe diem. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:44:27 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jonifest Dennis Derkacs ; When and where is the Joni Fest? Where can I get more info about it? South of France near Perpignan/Carcassonne, august 13-15th I'll send you all info Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:44:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Same Situation **Does anyone know which concert the footage is from that Joni sings The Same Situation and others on the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD? Mark, I'm pretty sure that the footage comes from her 1974 London appearance which was filmed and excerpts have appeared on other sources as well, mainly The Old Grey Whistle Test BBC show. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:54:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: aluminum, etc. njc >My dad has the dreaded Alzheimer's/Dementia and over the last year has gotten much worse. His doctor has told us that it has a lot to do with heavy drinking. She did not mention anything about the cans. It seems like the humans have painted themselves into a corner with all crap that we consume and can't seem to live without. They gave him a medication that slowed his memory loss down quite a bit and it works better if you catch it earlier. Once it really gets going though it is really a scary thing.< Sorry to hear about your Dad Paz. Jeff went through this with his Mom. Now Jeff's younger brother has Alzheimer's & indeed he was once a very heavy drinker (alcohol). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:09:30 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: A message from James Taylor on this, the anniversary of his birth ... "Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King" SHED A LITTLE LIGHT :-( Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King and recognize that there are ties between us, all men and women living on the Earth. Ties of hope and love, sister and brotherhood, that we are bound together in our desire to see the world become a place in which our children can grow free and strong. We are bound together by the task that stands before us and the road that lies ahead. We are bound and we are bound. There is a feeling like the clenching of a fist There is a hunger in the center of the chest There is a passage through the darkness and the mist And though the body sleeps the heart will never rest Shed a little light, oh Lord, so that we can see, just a little light, oh Lord. Wanna stand it on up, stand it on up, oh Lord, wanna walk it on down, shed a little light, oh Lord. Can't get no light from the dollar bill, don't give me no light from a TV screen. When I open my eyes I wanna drink my fill from the well on the hill, do you know what I mean? Shed a little light, oh Lord, so that we can see, just a little light, oh Lord. Wanna stand it on up, stand it on up, oh Lord, wanna walk it on down, shed a little light, oh Lord. There is a feeling like the clenching of a fist, there is a hunger in the center of the chest. There is a passage through the darkness and the mist and though the body sleeps the heart will never rest. Oh, Let us turn our thoughts today to Martin Luther King and recognize that there are ties between us. All men and women living on the Earth, ties of hope and love, sister and brotherhood. andmoreagain, - ---------------- simon PS: i DON'T have a Dream. i live in Amerika http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/mlk/sfeature/sf_video.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:02:34 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Birthday: MLK Jr, njc I suppose Yo, On today's date in 1929 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was born. On today's installment of "The World Cafe", Mavis Staples talked about conversations between her father, Pops, and Dr King back in the day. At the end of the hour, Dye asked her, with characteristic casualness if she'd do a song. What she and her band laid on him was 4 or 5 minutes of transcendent solos, rhythm, and gospel growl. I think I'll be able to capture a re-broadcast tonight. If so, I'll share it. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:03:52 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Released 30 years ago today, "Blood On the Tracks" , njc I guess a post on "Blood On the Tracks" is technically NJC but... Also on today's show, Dye talked to a Minneapolis guitarist who was on "Blood On the Tracks" which was released 30 years ago on today's date. He said that Bob and Phil Ramone had already recorded most (all?) of the tracks in NYC. He said the room was all wrong for the intimate themes in the songs because the venue was big enough for a symphony. He said Bob basically went home to Minnesota and decided to give it another go. Bob sent someone looking for a specific model and vintage (early 1950s I think) of Martin guitar that was small and had a full tone. They guy said it was perfect for recording and it was a model that Bob was familiar with because Joan Baez used one. A local collector had the right vintage but it was a "G" model, meaning it used gut strings. (?) Anyway, Bob was satisfied with it and paid the guy $1,500 for it eventually. Bob asked his brother to line up some players. Dye's guest was a guitarist who's written a book about the experience. He said that most people didn't know who's session it was till they got to the studio. After trying a take on "Tangled Up In Blue", Bob asked him what he thought. I guess the guitarist had a case of nervous because he said, "It's passable." "Passable?!" Bob says. "Uh." His mind is going a million miles an hour. "Well, you know. What if we did it in A? I think it would sound better in A." So they did and the guy will be boring his grandchildren with that story every Christmas when the bring him tapioca pudding in the nursing home. I know I would. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:37:37 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Fwd: Re: Released 30 years ago today, "Blood On the Tracks" , njc "New Yorker" model? Not sure why I think that... em > > > --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > > > > Bob sent someone looking for a specific model and vintage (early > > 1950s I > > think) of Martin guitar that was small and had a full tone. They > guy > > said > > it was perfect for recording and it was a model that Bob was > familiar > > with > > because Joan Baez used one. A local collector had the right > vintage > > but it > > was a "G" model, meaning it used gut strings. (?) Anyway, Bob was > > satisfied with it and paid the guy $1,500 for it eventually. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:39:08 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Fwd: Re: Released 30 years ago today, "Blood On the Tracks" , njc re: the New Yorker model http://www.vintageguitars.net/bg/100474883_l.jpg like that... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:50:46 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: John Stewart, sooooooooo NJC any John Stewart fans out there? Christ that man slays me. Phoenix concerts and early albums. I could almost be straight for a songwriter/handsome man like that. ya'll laugh now, ok???? :) m ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:09:59 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Tsunami telethon on NBC was produced by none other than Larry Klein. Annie Lennox solo at the piano singing 'Why' was transcendent and made Madonna (who was the lead act singing 'Imagine') look like an amateur. Diana Ross closed the show and was the only performer who displayed obvious diva-itis. Come to think of it, Annie could have wiped the floor up with her too. Nora Jones uncharacteristically played guitar and her song was very beautiful. Eric Clapton and Roger Waters both played acoustic guitars while Roger sang 'Wish You Were Here.' Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:20:55 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Released 30 years ago today, "Blood On the Tracks" , njc hi >>>lama wrote >>>>Bob and Phil Ramone had already recorded most (all?) of the tracks in NYC. the original is available as the "blood on the tracks - the new york sessions" boot all the tracks where recorded, then 5 songs were replaced later. tangled up in blue idiot wind if you see her, say hello lily, rosemary, et al youre a big girl now even changing the lyrics : on idiot wind "you left your bags behind" became "your corrupt ways have finally made you blind" & if you see her ""if youre making love to her, kiss her for the kid" becoming "if you get close to her, kiss her once for me" imho the original tangled up in blue is a totally different song, totally different feel, and way, way preferable to the later somewhat clinical and dead sounding (in comparison) version. there were also 2 songs recorded which didnt make it to either version: call letters blue up to me if anyone wants to listen to the new york versions of the tracks that were replaced, as well as two songs that didnt make the cut - go here: http://www.uncut.net/music/bob_dylan/special_features/398 the later versions can also be listened to for comparison. also - the sound quality on the boot release is apparently better as it was taken directly from the acetates (not too sure what this means - masters i guess??). i cant really hear any difference tho - but perhaps my copy has deteriorated a bit. ron np - tangled up in blue - new york version ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2005 #18 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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