From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #503 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 24 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 503 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: greetings, my friends [Jamie Zubairi ] UK bans saskatoons! (NJC but Joni might be interested) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: greetings, my friends [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Graffiti [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: UK bans saskatoons! (NJC but Joni might be interested) [Catherine McK] Re: greetings, my friends [Catherine McKay ] Re: greetings, my friends [Smurfycopy@aol.com] The "Spray" from The Dawntreader [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader [Jamie Zubairi ] Holiday Greetings from the Jersey Shore njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Correction: RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader ["Richard Flynn" ] website! [Em ] RE: website! ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Joni Graffiti [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni Graffiti njc [Em ] RE: The Carpenters njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader ["Mark or Travis" ] people who died, NJC and not warm and fuzzy [Em ] Re: The Carpenters/Irene Kral njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader (Mark's) [Nuriel Tobias ] graffiti [Em ] graffiti [Em ] graffiti [Em ] oh no.... [Em ] RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Venture capital for Jonatha's DVD, njc [] Part 17, why I love Karin Berquist, njc [] Re: Re: bruce njc [] 'if I should fall behind' bruce njc [] Cheap guitars, eyeshades and guns, njc [] RE: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc ["Raffaele Malanga" Subject: RE: greetings, my friends This is a GREAT game. It's a great search engine. A little different to other search engines but you can have loads of fun in it! Great work Les! 'love' and 'hate' were both found in these songs: Sometimes I'm Happy All I Want Shiny Toys Dog Eat Dog I Wish I Were In Love Again Tax Free Significantly "dance or dancing" was found in 30 lyrics. The Tenth World Sweet Sucker Dance In France They Kiss On Main Street Cotton Avenue The Boho Dance Goodbye Pork Pie Hat The Pirate Of Penance Daisy Summer Pipers Coyote Poor Sad Baby Born To Take The Highway Ballerina Valerie Impossible Dreamer Come In From The Cold California Furry Sings The Blues Song To A Seagull Let The Wind Carry Me Help Me Harlem In Havana Good Friends All I Want Court And Spark Both Sides, Now You're So Square Baby I Don't Care Blue Boy The Only Joy In Town The Crazy Cries Of Love Tax Free Talk To Me Do you think that perhaps that it's her love of dancing that subconsciously puts the term into lots of her lyrics? Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Les Irvin wrote: > > joni wrote at least three songs that mention the > word > > christmas. which songs are they? > > A quick trip to the JMDL Lyric search engine reveals > six songs: > > The Gift of the Magi > Face Lift > River > Chinese Cafi > Chelsea Morning > Barangrill > > Trivia question #2: > How many songs has Joni recorded that include both > the words 'love' and > 'hate'? > > Les, trying to drum up interest in the leaner, > meaner JMDL site... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:39:52 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: UK bans saskatoons! (NJC but Joni might be interested) Have just read an entertaining article in a national newspaper. Apparently, thanks to the Novel Foods Regulation (EC 258/97) which came into force in 1997 the saskatoon berry is considered a new product to the EU market and therefore must undergo at least 2 years of safety tests before it can be sold in the UK. Importers had either been unaware of these regulations or ignored them until recently but now all supermarket stocks have been impounded! I still have a little jar of saskatoon berry jelly in my cupboard, brought back from a pilgrimage to Joni's home town, which, I suppose, is now an illegal substance. Reading on, there is hope though. It seems the German government has deemed that, since the Finns eat the berries without ill effect, they must be OK and the ban can be overturned. Not to mention, of course that the Indians have been eating them for centuries. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:49:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: greetings, my friends **Les, trying to drum up interest in the leaner, meaner JMDL site... Les, you've done a tremendous job on the makeover of jmdl. I'll add that you've made managing the database for my covers a MUCH easier task as well, plus adding some new features. I would encourage those who haven't checked out "Joni Undercover" yet to do so, it's quite a resource. Even Joni in Fiction is worth checking out! As for the lyric search engine, I've used it a lot, especially when I put together my little contests which I do from time to time. Bob NP: Iron Butterfly, "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:53:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Graffiti Joni limericks? Awesome... There once was a writer named Joni, Who found all the others quite phony She corrected the wrongs Wrote all the best songs And while doing so made tons of moe-knee! (I had to 'Bennett Cerf' the ending to get it to rhyme) Have a great day y'all! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:09:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: UK bans saskatoons! (NJC but Joni might be interested) --- Gertus@aol.com wrote: > Have just read an entertaining article in a national > newspaper. Apparently, > thanks to the Novel Foods Regulation (EC 258/97) > which came into force in 1997 > the saskatoon berry is considered a new product to > the EU market and > therefore must undergo at least 2 years of safety > tests before it can be sold in the > UK. [...] > Reading on, there is hope though. It seems the > German government has deemed > that, since the Finns eat the berries without ill > effect, they must be OK and > the ban can be overturned. Not to mention, of course > that the Indians have been > eating them for centuries. > They're probably going to have to forcefeed them to rabbits until the bunnies can't take any more, before they determine they're fit for human consumption (apart from Finns and Indians, who apparently don't count?) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:12:34 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: greetings, my friends --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **Les, trying to drum up interest in the leaner, > meaner JMDL site... > That address, of course is www.jmdl.com - be there, baby, or you're so square. > > Les, you've done a tremendous job on the makeover > of jmdl. I'll add that > you've made managing the database for my covers a > MUCH easier task as well, plus > adding some new features. I would encourage those > who haven't checked out > "Joni Undercover" yet to do so, it's quite a > resource. Even Joni in Fiction is > worth checking out! > > As for the lyric search engine, I've used it a lot, > especially when I put > together my little contests which I do from time to > time. > And of course, I use it for those times when I decide to enter those contests. It's called cheating, er, research. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, www.jmdl.com (Taking the subway to work, I guess, cuz there's a winter storm and freezing rain warning today and I just don't want to drive - white Christmas!) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:43:38 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: greetings, my friends The Anti Claus writes: << Even Joni in Fiction is worth checking out! >> Curse you, Muller. You live your sad little days desperately searching for the latest covers, ahem, find -- be it Jim Nabors doing "Night in the City," or Celine Dion's "Yvette in English," or whatever. And what do you get for all your pathetic work? Shiny Frisbees you can barely give away. How dare you dis my pet project, especially after my marathon Carpal Tunnel of Love update of Joni in Fiction a couple of weekends ago! That's right, Muller. I've added 90 new Joni bits to Fiction. That's 90 new Joni sightings in books, movies, plays, poetry, etc., that fans from around the world have alerted me to. And now you have to go and RUIN CHRISTMAS with your condescending attitude towards one of the JMDL's best-loved featurettes. I hope you get the coal that you deserve this year, you bad, bad man. And one more thing: I suspect that Jody likes me more than she likes you. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:42:29 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Without getting into who the song's about (Unless it's an answering-wise must) - My question is what is that "Spray" in the song? ("The taste of the spray he takes"). Yours, Nu Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:54:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Hi Nuriel The spray she refers to is sea-spray. The Dawntreader was going to be the name of David Crosby's yacht 'The Mayan' but he stuck with the original name. Well... what is this song about? It's about a whole load of things that can't really be summed up in a quick soundbite. But hey, she's Joni Mitchell, what does the song mean to you? Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Without getting into who the song's about (Unless > it's an answering-wise must) - My question is what > is that "Spray" in the song? ("The taste of the > spray he takes"). > > Yours, > > Nu > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage > less. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:20:21 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Greetings, my friend! Querido Wally, y todos los otros en la lista, Feliz Navidad y Prospero A~no Nuevo! Even though I can't put the tilde over the "n," I don't want to leave it out. Otherwise, of course, I'd be wishing you something quite different. I know where you are "it don't snow much, it stays pretty green" around Christmas; don't know if that's true year-round or not. All the best! Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. You wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:21:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: greetings, my friends joni wrote at least three songs that mention the word christmas. which songs are they? so much for the joni content. i wanted to reach everybody so i had to do whatever it took to avoid labeling this message. i love you, folks. today i was thinking that you are the people that have accompanied me throughout this very hard but very fruitful year. whenever i felt lonely or simply dead tired, i just had to look at my screen and there you were, no matter the time or season. at any given time there's always a jmdler somewhere in the right time zone to keep me company as i study or write or just go quietly mad over a piece of inscrutable reading material. thank you for being such a perfect family, warts and all. will you take me as i am? of course you will. you always have. MERRY HOLIDAY SEASON! i'll be around anyway... love, wally (*W*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:25:38 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Jamie, Do you have a source for this David Crosby story? (Of course "The Dawntreader" is all part of Joni's Tolkien obsession in the early days.) I might add that I and a team of lyrics- and trivia- enthusiasts are busy updating the glossary. We welcome your suggestions/contributions about what might be annotated. Here's an example of a recent entry: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/entry.cfm?id=59 Contact me directly at rflynn@frontiernet.net Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Zubairi Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 9:54 AM To: Nuriel Tobias; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Hi Nuriel The spray she refers to is sea-spray. The Dawntreader was going to be the name of David Crosby's yacht 'The Mayan' but he stuck with the original name. Well... what is this song about? It's about a whole load of things that can't really be summed up in a quick soundbite. But hey, she's Joni Mitchell, what does the song mean to you? Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Without getting into who the song's about (Unless > it's an answering-wise must) - My question is what > is that "Spray" in the song? ("The taste of the > spray he takes"). > > Yours, > > Nu > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage > less. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:45:10 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: RE: My picks 2004 NJC I love the lists that come out at this time of year. They help me catch up on things that I missed - great books, movies, thetare, music, restaurants, etc. It's also great fun reading your lists of favourites; I've discovered many great pop artists from people on this list. My two picks for best, all-around, feel-good, excellent music CD's that spoke to me this year are: 1) Teitur: Poetry and Airplanes. Teitur hails from Denmark's Faroe Islands. He has toured with John Mayer and toured also with Rufus Wainwright earlier this year. His sound is a bit like Damien Rice or a young, wistful Paul Simon. Gorgeous little melodies. 2) My second pick is Shirley Horn's 1990 release, You Wont Forget Me. Wow. I don't know why it took so long for this artist (or this CD, for that matter) to register on my radar, but Shirley Horn is one of our last great ladies of jazz. Like Joni, I think it takes a while to *get* her style. But once you do, you are hooked! This album is just exquisite, with beautiful, mature jazz, great soloists, and of course the inimitable voice of Shirley Horn. For those quiet moments... 3) A DVD pick would be Rivers and Tides. This documentary is about artist Andy Goldsworthy, a Scotsman who makes ephemeral, site-specific land art, using only stone, leaves, ice, branches, flowers, ice, etc. Breathtaking beauty. Also features a great soundtrack of original music. So I'm taking the day off. Wind and snow are whirling about. Making cranberry sauce and turkey stuffing. Birds are at the feeder. A pot of coffee on the table. Shuffling around in slippers. All my best to you for the holidays, Michael in Quebec - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:17:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Hi Richard The source I got originally was from the DC biography 'Long Time Gone' (I think it's called that, I can't rightly remember) but confirmation of this story is found here http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=557 I have a copy of the biog at my parents and I will hunt out the original quote over the Xmas holidays. Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Richard Flynn wrote: > Jamie, > > Do you have a source for this David Crosby story? > (Of course "The > Dawntreader" is all part of Joni's Tolkien obsession > in the early days.) > > I might add that I and a team of lyrics- and trivia- > enthusiasts are busy > updating the glossary. We welcome your > suggestions/contributions about what > might be annotated. > Here's an example of a recent entry: > http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/entry.cfm?id=59 > Contact me directly at rflynn@frontiernet.net > > Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:08:13 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: david sapp Subject: Re: Joni Graffiti FREEDOM! (scribbled in the subway) peace, david ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:31:20 -0500 From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Holiday Greetings from the Jersey Shore njc Happy Christmas everyone! I miss you all.... Love, Rose xxooo PS:I had another Bruce encounter ;~) ...this time Harry's Roadhouse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:38:44 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Correction: RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Joni was obsessed with Tolkien, but of course the Dawntreader is in C.S. Lewis's Narnia series: http://home.clara.net/rogerpattenden/html/dawntreader.html --- Richard Flynn wrote: > (Of course "The > Dawntreader" is all part of Joni's Tolkien obsession > in the early days.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:06:12 -0700 From: Kate Subject: Refuge of the Roads Did I once hear people on this list wishing they could find the Refuge of the Roads DVD, and having trouble doing so? If so, I just saw two down at A&B Sound here in Kelowna. Kate du Nord - -- Bedtime Story http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:44:37 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: website! Hi, just wanted to concur with the others that the jmdl website is indeed lookin' good! Great job, Les, and who ever else has a hand in that great endeavour. Thanks for doing it. :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:22:52 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: website! > Hi, just wanted to concur with the others that the jmdl > website is indeed lookin' good! > Great job, Les, and who ever else has a hand in that great endeavour. Thanks for the compliments on the new look. I'd been dissatisfied with the cluttered look of the site for a long time and decided to go with a much sparser feel this time around. Many improvements have been made along the way. Most importantly, the Member Gallery now works! All of you who joined the Gallery and were frustrated by your inability to get your picture on-line will find it a breeze to do so now. I invite anyone who does not have their profile up in the Gallery to register and do so. Most of all, I want to thank all the people who do the real work on the site. The site is maintained by a team of individuals - many thanks to them: Bob Murphy and Lori Fye - Fiction section Bob Muller - Undercover section Marian Russell, Sue McNamara, Howard Wright - Guitar section Richard Flynn, Catherine McKay, Marian - Lyrics and Glossary section Ken Sharp - Shiny Toys section (offline at the moment) Not to mention a zillion other people who've helped over the years: jmdl.com/credits.cfm Les NP: Myshkin - "King of Kankakee" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:56:25 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Graffiti Joni Mitchell Never Lies ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni Graffiti njc - --- Randy Remote wrote: > Joni Mitchell Never Lies Good one Randy! I feel like whippin' out the spray cans. :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:47:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The Carpenters njc fred, the first contract was meant for karen alone. agnes, their mother, refused to allow karen to sign it (K. was 15) if richard was not given a contract too. in any case, the very first single (which karen recorded with magic lamp, a long disappeared southern california recording company) was "i'll be yours". the cover says "karen carpenter" not "the" carpenters. in any case, i admit that richard was the business mind behind the duo and that his arrangements were good (not all of them), especially the way he treated karen's voice and the background vocals, which in the earlier recordings are simply glorious. (when karen recorded her solo project and was produced by phil ramone, her voice was strained in many cases, so richard must have known how to get the best out of karen's voice.) my point is that, years after karen's death, richard is still pumping out anthologies and collections that contain maybe one 30 second unreleased ad for a japanese soda company and 24 reissues of the "greatest hits". over and over. AND his choices, both as a producer and as a musician, were most of time SOOOOOOO middle-america. how could he use a voice like karen's to record stuff like "goofus", "beechwood 45789", "breaking up is hard to do", etc -- especially when karen was a walking skeleton, a woman that wouldn't live much longer. if that's not going for the easy buck at the expense of a great voice, what is it? i know that it would have taken another producer or a great conductor (previn, riddle, etc) to guide karen and karen's voice (again her solo album is proof positive that she her taste wasn't much better than richard's) to create something worthwhile, and in that, i agree that richard was a good pop music artist. but that doesn't mean that he wasn't an accomplice in karen's personal breakdown and artistic waste. in any case, i am biased and most probably totally full of s_it. and isn't it a total trip that we're discussing richard carpenter on the jmdl, for god's sake? love, wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: FredNow@aol.com [mailto:FredNow@aol.com] > Enviado el: Jueves, 23 de Diciembre de 2004 04:43 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > CC: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar > Asunto: The Carpenters njc > > > "Wally Kairuz" > > >>have you noticed how her > >>voice is always tinged with melancholy, no matter how happy the tune? > > > > Karen Carpenter had one of the greatest natural singing voices of > all time ... eminently musical, transparent, effortless technical > and emotional mastery. To my ears, her only match since is Eva > Cassidy, and sadly, she's gone too soon, too. > > And, yes, always tinged with melancholy. > > > > >>her brother is still making money on her. he's a necrophiliac pimp. > > > > Unless you have information I'm not aware of (which is certainly > possible), this doesn't jive with what I understand to be true > ... that without her brother's support, musically and > emotionally, she might have remained unknown to us. In my view > he's a smart, creative, savvy and talented pop music > arranger/producer. The money he makes are royalties justifiably > due him as one of the two artists signed to the contract. The > signatory act was called The Carpenters. > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:59:26 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader I'm just glad I caught my own mistake _before_ you did! Happy holidays! - -----Original Message----- From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 3:55 PM To: Richard Flynn; 'Jamie Zubairi'; 'Nuriel Tobias'; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Richard Flynn wrote: > Jamie, > > Do you have a source for this David Crosby story? (Of course "The > Dawntreader" is all part of Joni's Tolkien obsession in the early > days.) Actually the name 'The Dawntreader' comes from C. S. Lewis's 'Chronicles of Narnia', not from Tolkien. This one comes close to being my favorite Joni song. I love both the original STAS and Travelogue versions. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:44:43 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Carpenters njc FredNow@aol.com wrote: The signatory act was called The Carpenters. > Actually I believe their official name was 'Carpenters' without the 'The.' Is anyone familiar with a singer named Irene Kral? There were a couple of her songs on 'The Bridges of Madison County' soundtrack along with Johnny Hartman and Dinah Washington. I recently got a cd that has a recording that Irene made in the 60s on it. Every other song is a piece of pop drivel that was obviously included at the insistence of the record label to give the record a broader appeal. But the good songs are true gems by a very talented vocalist with a beautiful voice. Some of the songs make me think of Karen Carpenter who certainly did have a creamy, smooth and lovely voice. Irene is also no longer with us, unfortunately. Mark E. in Seattle one-time Carpenters fan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:55:15 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Richard Flynn wrote: > Jamie, > > Do you have a source for this David Crosby story? (Of course "The > Dawntreader" is all part of Joni's Tolkien obsession in the early > days.) Actually the name 'The Dawntreader' comes from C. S. Lewis's 'Chronicles of Narnia', not from Tolkien. This one comes close to being my favorite Joni song. I love both the original STAS and Travelogue versions. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:10:57 -0500 From: "Tanya Wills" Subject: same situation Does anyone have the piano music to Same Situation? I need it for an audition . . . E-mail me if you do! Happy Holidays JMDL's! tanya in nyc Tanya Wills tanyawills1@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:22:06 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: people who died, NJC and not warm and fuzzy so I got an email from John Kerry suggesting giving some $$ to an organization that provides calling cards to soldiers. And I did, cuz I wanted to - seems a great thing to do. So in the space for name of the one you wanted give it in honor of I put first name: People last name: Who died So it says given in honor of People Who Died. Thinks anyone'll get it? People Who Died By Jim Carroll Teddy sniffing glue he was 12 years old Fell from the roof on East Two-nine Cathy was 11 when she pulled the plug On 26 reds and a bottle of wine Bobby got leukemia, 14 years old He looked like 65 when he died He was a friend of mine Refrain: Those are people who died, died Those are people who died, died Those are people who died, died Those are people who died, died They were all my friends, and they died G-berg and Georgie let their gimmicks go rotten So they died of hepatitis in upper Manhattan Sly in Vietnam took a bullet in the head Bobby OD'd on Drano on the night that he was wed They were two more friends of mine Two more friends that died / I miss 'em--they died Repeat Refrain Mary took a dry dive from a hotel room Bobby hung himself from a cell in the tombs Judy jumped in front of a subway train Eddie got slit in the jugular vein And Eddie, I miss you more than all the others, And I salute you brother/ This song is for you my brother Repeat Refrain Herbie pushed Tony from the Boys' Club roof Tony thought that his rage was just some goof But Herbie sure gave Tony some bitchen proof "Hey," Herbie said, "Tony, can you fly?" But Tony couldn't fly . . . Tony died Repeat Refrain: Brian got busted on a narco rap He beat the rap by rattin' on some bikers He said, hey, I know it's dangerous, but it sure beats Riker's But the next day he got offed by the very same bikers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:27:14 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The Carpenters/Irene Kral njc Mark, My wife is always accusing me of splitting hairs, but on this (Carpenters, The Carpenters) I salute you! (insert emoticon here). Irene Kral was a beautiful singer. Here's a bio: http://tinyurl.com/6vvgd All best, Fred In a message dated 12/23/2004 3:44:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Mark or Travis" writes: >FredNow@aol.com wrote: > The signatory act was called The Carpenters. >> > >Actually I believe their official name was 'Carpenters' without the 'The.' > >Is anyone familiar with a singer named Irene Kral? There were a couple of her songs on 'The Bridges >of Madison County' soundtrack along with Johnny Hartman and Dinah Washington. I recently got a cd >that has a recording that Irene made in the 60s on it. Every other song is a piece of pop drivel >that was obviously included at the insistence of the record label to give the record a broader >appeal. But the good songs are true gems by a very talented vocalist with a beautiful voice. Some >of the songs make me think of Karen Carpenter who certainly did have a creamy, smooth and lovely >voice. Irene is also no longer with us, unfortunately. > >Mark E. in Seattle >one-time Carpenters fan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:29:52 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader Hi Jamie, Since 3 are a comany - I'll do my best to consider the "sea-spray" option as the right answer.:) Anyhow, I'm swifted rapidly into something else you wrote and would like you to focus on it, if you please. Jamie Zubairi wrote: "But hey, she's Joni Mitchell, what does the song mean to you?" OK, now here's what a'm tran'a se'. Sort of an outing thingy, but if you don't mind, i'm not going to join the "What does it mean to you" closet session. Joni mitchell is the worst example i can think of as a "What does my song mean to you" songwriter. Words like "Naked Poetry", you know, folks just mention them and yawn, "Yeah, i wonder what Joni meant, i wonder where are my shoes"...Hope all Mormons forgive me, i'm doing my best to make you smile a bit behind your masks, but i must say that, as for myself, i give a fuck about what a JONI song means to ME! LOL! You see, love, what i'm saying is that if Joni Mitchell aka Joni Mitchell uses a word like "Spray" in a lyric, then all answers regarding it maybe be wrong or right, one thing's for sure - THERE WAS A SPRAY. :) This is what a closet session member would say, btw. My reply would probably look like this: Dear Jamie, As i see it, what JONI MEANT to DO in that song, is one of the earliest examples recorded of what Joni never mentions when saying that she's "Painting with words". That thing is "oh, yeah, and then i'm also "FRAMING IT". This framing obsession we've all seen on more than one sleeve, IS the key to understand the Painting. So, yeah, I think The Dawntreader is about David's life being turned into a dream by Joni in order to turn her dreams into reality. The Sailor captured by The Siren. A Sailor-Siren relationship may seem scary at first, but i think that in Joni and David's case it's more of a GAME they've been playing for years, while rolling joints, and will be playing untill they're gone. David's endless trying to "Kill the maiden with his kiss" (Hero) and free himself from The Dawntreader's curse is useless. He's framed for good. I don't understand how he's even still alive all these years since the song was painted!!! That's why religious Jews and (i think) Native-Americans hide their faces when someone aims a camera at them. The more photos Joni takes - the more her ghostly garden grows. Though David's still surviving, i have no doubt that he wakes up every night with a start recalling the day that Joni turned him into an animtaion. So, sea-spray, you say? Funny. I thought he had an Asthma.:) Nu Meet the all-new My Yahoo!  Try it today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:40:43 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: The "Spray" from The Dawntreader (Mark's) "This one comes close to being my favorite Joni song. I love both the original STAS and Travelogue versions." Mark Hi Mark, God bless you for saying that. Nu Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:11:27 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: RE: The Carpenters njc Well, Wally, I think you do indeed have information I'm not aware of! In any case, the world at large wasn't really aware of Karen until Carpenters, yes? And in interviews with Richard he always seems genuinely respectful of her artistry and aspired only to serve that artistry, not to aggrandize himself. When he speaks in musical terms, it is always with utmost seriousness and espousing the highest standards. Yes, some of his arrangements were kind of corny, but never schlocky (a significant difference in my view). Don't forget that much of their work was of a time which saw "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" and "Love Is Blue" on the charts along side of The Beatles, Dylan, et al. Talk about worlds colliding! As far as the endless stream of reissues, etc. in my experience these are the domain of the record label, not the artist/producer. The label doesn't need the artist's further permission, which is normally granted in the initial contract. Again, you may know differently, but this is the standard practice. Aside from all that, I'm sure that as with pretty much every family, the shit gets funky. None of us will truly know what the day to day psychological/emotional dynamic was like, but I'm sure it wasn't The Cowsills. She seemed such a fragile persona that it may be fair to say that while certainly without Karen there never would have been the Carpenters, it could be equally true that without Richard there wouldn't have been either. As much as I love Karen's singing, that Phil Ramone produced solo album is horrible. I think you're right on both counts that her own taste needed guidance as well as the right producer to guide it ... Ramone was not it but Richard most often was. Also, let's not overlook what a good drummer she was, and singing while playing to boot! All best, Fred In a message dated 12/23/2004 3:47:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Wally Kairuz" writes: >fred, the first contract was meant for karen alone. agnes, their mother, >refused to allow karen to sign it (K. was 15) if richard was not given a >contract too. in any case, the very first single (which karen recorded with >magic lamp, a long disappeared southern california recording company) was >"i'll be yours". the cover says "karen carpenter" not "the" carpenters. in >any case, i admit that richard was the business mind behind the duo and that >his arrangements were good (not all of them), especially the way he treated >karen's voice and the background vocals, which in the earlier recordings are >simply glorious. (when karen recorded her solo project and was produced by >phil ramone, her voice was strained in many cases, so richard must have >known how to get the best out of karen's voice.) > >my point is that, years after karen's death, richard is still pumping out >anthologies and collections that contain maybe one 30 second unreleased ad >for a japanese soda company and 24 reissues of the "greatest hits". over and >over. > >AND his choices, both as a producer and as a musician, were most of time >SOOOOOOO middle-america. how could he use a voice like karen's to record >stuff like "goofus", "beechwood 45789", "breaking up is hard to do", etc -- >especially when karen was a walking skeleton, a woman that wouldn't live >much longer. if that's not going for the easy buck at the expense of a great >voice, what is it? > >i know that it would have taken another producer or a great conductor >(previn, riddle, etc) to guide karen and karen's voice (again her solo album >is proof positive that she her taste wasn't much better than richard's) to >create something worthwhile, and in that, i agree that richard was a good >pop music artist. but that doesn't mean that he wasn't an accomplice in >karen's personal breakdown and artistic waste. > >in any case, i am biased and most probably totally full of s_it. and isn't >it a total trip that we're discussing richard carpenter on the jmdl, for >god's sake? > >love, > >wally > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: FredNow@aol.com [mailto:FredNow@aol.com] >> Enviado el: Jueves, 23 de Diciembre de 2004 04:43 a.m. >> Para: joni@smoe.org >> CC: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar >> Asunto: The Carpenters njc >> >> >> "Wally Kairuz" >> >> >>have you noticed how her >> >>voice is always tinged with melancholy, no matter how happy the tune? >> >> >> >> Karen Carpenter had one of the greatest natural singing voices of >> all time ... eminently musical, transparent, effortless technical >> and emotional mastery. To my ears, her only match since is Eva >> Cassidy, and sadly, she's gone too soon, too. >> >> And, yes, always tinged with melancholy. >> >> >> >> >>her brother is still making money on her. he's a necrophiliac pimp. >> >> >> >> Unless you have information I'm not aware of (which is certainly >> possible), this doesn't jive with what I understand to be true >> ... that without her brother's support, musically and >> emotionally, she might have remained unknown to us. In my view >> he's a smart, creative, savvy and talented pop music >> arranger/producer. The money he makes are royalties justifiably >> due him as one of the two artists signed to the contract. The >> signatory act was called The Carpenters. >> >> -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:55:41 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: njc on Monday it was 3 degrees below zero Today it is mild, in the low 50's and it is supposed to go in the teens maybe tomorrow . . nothing like Ohio and Indiana They are getting swamped with snow My wheelbarrow (I wasn't sure if it was a wheel *barrel) My wheel barrow is a rubbermaid with two front wheels and I recommend it. Do you need a wheel barrow? It could make a nice gift. It is very sturdy and does not teeter totter. I have had it for 8 years. It is very sturdy and useful. I just bought 5 wheelbarrows of wood into the house. It feels like money in the bank I love that feeling. I feel like I have so much abundance\ So much warmth ahead. . I can see the fire through the glass of the wood burning stove. . . so much I have been given. And now we have these 6 little souls living with us I know this sounds like a lot but first I had two cats and then the sweet pregnant cat arrived. (Black with orange streaks) She had her kittens aon August 12th And we were going to give away the 3 kittens. But now they just have goddess parents Bree and I have come to love them so. lAURA is godmother to olive. (the calico, black white and orange. . a loving sweetheart) I am so happy that I have ten days off from work. . Starting at 2:30 today. F R E E D O M has always been more important than fame. Want to get on the jmdl and just start writing what ever comes to mind? and do not edit. . I mean just write like a free association. /. Nuriel, I know you will do it. . Laura too. . lets have a go everyone here. . Marianne i _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: Em Subject: graffiti graffiti In honor of Randy, Nuri, the Bobs and their limericks and Marianne and Bree and their cats and their wheel barrel and their woodfires..and every one... please accept this..extreeeeeeeeeemely humble offering... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/emzdogz/album?.dir=/ea56&.src=ph&.tok=ph9piQCBGXFGhVzo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:00:18 -0500 (EST) From: Em Subject: graffiti graffiti In honor of Randy, Nuri, the Bobs and their limericks and Marianne and Bree and their cats and their wheel barrel and their woodfires..and every one... please accept this..extreeeeeeeeeemely humble offering... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/emzdogz/album?.dir=/ea56&.src=ph&.tok=ph9piQCBGXFGhVzo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:05:22 -0500 (EST) From: Em Subject: graffiti graffiti In honor of Randy, Nuri, the Bobs and their limericks and Marianne and Bree and their cats and their wheel barrel and their woodfires..and every one... please accept this..extreeeeeeeeeemely humble offering... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/emzdogz/album?.dir=/ea56&.src=ph&.tok=ph9piQCBGXFGhVzo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:09:15 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: oh no.... why oh whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy is my graffiti post going through 3 times???????? oh no! :( I am so sorry em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:55:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc december 23 came and went (and MORE than came and went in europe and australia by now) and i forgot to greet two fellow capricorns and adored wise men: *raffaele malanga* and *john low* dear brothers in saturn: please forgive this unworthy goat. HAPPY BIRTHDAY beautiful ones! wally, being devoured by mosquitoes as i write ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:15:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > december 23 came and went (and MORE than came and > went in europe and > australia by now) and i forgot to greet two fellow > capricorns and adored > wise men: > > *raffaele malanga* > and > *john low* > > dear brothers in saturn: please forgive this > unworthy goat. > > HAPPY BIRTHDAY beautiful ones! > *****wally, being devoured by mosquitoes as i write*** A fitting fate for a forgetful fairy! Happy belated (not here, where it's still Dec. 23 for a little bit longer) birthdays, Raffaele and John. I call December 23, Christmas Eve Eve. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:28:16 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc Oh wally, don't like mosquitoes but they say warmth to me which I much prefer, even with the bugs, to this cold!!! I hate it. mack- in not so warm texas tonight. *wally, being devoured by mosquitoes as i write*** > > > A fitting fate for a forgetful fairy! > > Happy belated (not here, where it's still Dec. 23 for > a little bit longer) birthdays, Raffaele and John. I > call December 23, Christmas Eve Eve. > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:36:34 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: have a good one NJC whether you observe it or not - may your christmas be blessed, joyful & peacefull!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 love ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 0:12:05 -0500 From: Subject: Venture capital for Jonatha's DVD, njc I haven't thought this out yet but it seems extraordinary. Jonatha Brooke's email list (which I'm on) got a Season's Greeting which included these paragraphs. Jonatha said, >Recently there was an article in the New York Times talking about how many of the major metropolitan ballet and opera companies are auctioning their principal performers as a means of additional funding for their works. I've come to the conclusion that if they can ask their fans and supporters for help, so can I. So, we've finally decided to move forward with our Bad Dog/Jbro capital fund campaign. There have been so many great ideas for fundraising suggested by many of you. Thanks for that. I've put a lot of thought into whether to ask for help, and if so how to go about doing it in a way that felt good to me, and hopefully all of you as well. We've got some great footage from the final two shows at the Anspacher Theatre from the New York run, and want to make a live DVD of the show. We're getting ready to release BITC in Europe, and of course I'm also starting to write songs for a new album. But it's all expensive, and that's why we're going forward with our capital fund drive.> This seems like a natural for all of the JMDLers with too much money on their hands. (Catherine, are you reading? :) ) All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 0:23:15 -0500 From: Subject: Part 17, why I love Karin Berquist, njc My favorite local band is "Over The Rhine", named for a local town. Karin Berquist writes 1/2 of the songs and sings every note. She sent a greeting to her email list and here's part about the recent Christmas show in Cincinnati: >The Taft show, a sea of white roses... Where do I begin? Thanks Kylie for offering up your apartment for the 'white rose assembly party' and to all of you who took the time, planned, schemed. I can't tell you what a major emotional wimp I am. You truly choked me up this time. I had such a difficult time delivering that first song. You have no idea. Or maybe you do. (For those of you not in the loop, I was surprised by 24 dozen white rose bouquets lovingly arranged around the stage...) Birthdays do not suck anymore.> I shot some film but I was clearly outclassed in the photography department by a lady nicknamed Bivester. If you like to look at pretty girls (and Berquist is certainly over qualified), check out Bivester's shots at: http://www.overtherhine.com/orchard/index.php?showtopic=3493&st=0 Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 1:01:00 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: bruce njc Randy, Do you mean he wrote "The Rising" on the changes of a song about an airliner because the 9/11 attacks utilized airliners? I think Springsteen is a giant and all but I don't think he's *that* deep. It sounds like a Paul is dead / grassy knoll / hidden aliens / secret diet of the stars thing. :) All the best, Jim > From: Randy Remote > The chords and melody match up too. I can only think Bruce did it > on purpose-the song is too well known for all the engineers, record > execs, musicians, etc not to have noticed. > jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > > > Sometimes "playing music" curses your ear as a listener! I didn't notice this but if I line up the syllables in my head, I see just what you mean. > > > > big ol-lll' > > come on up > > > > jet air lin-ah > > fa tha rise-in' > > > > I wonder if Steve Miller took the melody from an old blues. > > Could very well be > > > Anyway, it works for me. > > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 2:02:44 -0500 From: Subject: 'if I should fall behind' bruce njc It's the kind of experience you expect in church and not in a hockey arena. It's a double miracle at a concert. With each new voice, you realize the vast majority of humanity are looking for the same thing. It's not just Springsteen's song after that: it's an anthem of humanity. All the best, Lama >Kate said, >Watching an bruce & e street band concert on tv was the first time I heard that song ('if I should fall behind')... with everyone taking turns on 'wait for me'... I agree... it is so stunning to hear the song that way & it just floored me..> Lama >Near the end of a show when everybody takes a line on "41 Shots" or "Wait For Me", it's always... sorta... beyond words.< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 2:10:41 -0500 From: Subject: Cheap guitars, eyeshades and guns, njc Ruth, I think the short answer is Martin 028. As I recall though, Joni damaged some very nice guitars with those tunings. I think more than one had to be rebuilt or... uh... retired to a glass case. Kakki, are you lurking? I think this is a Westwood Music story, right? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu >Does anyone out there know what kind of guitar Joni was playing around the time of STAS? I just have a 12-string now, which I rarely play, mainly because it is difficult to keep tuned. I would like to experiment with Joni's tunings so I can learn a few songs from STAS and the earlier albums. I want to find a guitar that will stand up to retuning without neck problems, and which I can afford. Any suggestions, anyone?> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:25:39 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: RE: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc Thank you so much, Wally and listers! Well, considering how bad I am with dates and birthdays I can forgive you ;-) All the best for a great Xmas and New Year, Raf. >From: "Wally Kairuz" >To: , ,, > >Subject: RAFFAELE AND JOHN: i've done terrible! njc >Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:55:59 -0300 > >december 23 came and went (and MORE than came and went in europe and >australia by now) and i forgot to greet two fellow capricorns and adored >wise men: > > *raffaele malanga* >and > *john low* > >dear brothers in saturn: please forgive this unworthy goat. > >HAPPY BIRTHDAY beautiful ones! > >wally, being devoured by mosquitoes as i write ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #503 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)