From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #472 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 26 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 472 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- thanks njc [tantra_apso ] individual njc [tantra_apso ] Re: If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC [LCStanley7@aol.c] sharing misery,njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC [LCStanley7@aol.c] Re: U2, njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: sharing misery,njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] U2, Joan Armatrading, etc, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Sharing my misery - thanks NJC [] The Fiddle And The Drum [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: U2, Joan Armatrading, etc, njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni v.s. Evil [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni v.s. Evil [Randy Remote ] Sharing your Misery; njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Joni v.s. Evil Dead thoughts now NJC [Em ] Re: Sharing your Misery; njc [Em ] Sharing your Misery; njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Sharing your Misery; njc [Em ] I'm thankful for... njc [] Ukraine election mess, njc [] njc Concert for George [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Ukraine election mess, njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:56:22 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: thanks njc thanks for the messages from those people who sent them. didn't sleep much but don't feel stoned this mroning. am waiting for dr to come and look at my bum. unfortunately, my own dr is on today and i thought she wouldn't be. silly as it may be, i'd rather a stranger had to look at my bum and not elizabeth. she seems to me a delicate english rose type of person whcih is also daft and i am sure she has seen plenty of bums. to my amazement, i am not the prson i thouyght i thought i was. i didn't think i'd ever be able to cope with a conditon like this(not my bum, the other stuff). I thought i'd be on my pity pot all the time and take to my bed. instead i do more than i ever did. like my trip i just back from. I don't dream about things but do them. life is short. not only that, if i do become so bad i can't do these things, then getting them done now is good. allso i thought i'd rather lap up any help i get but instead i prefer to do it myself. even tho i got annoyed with the lack of any care like in that german restaurant, most of the time people did offer to help and i was always pleased and i smiled and thanked them but usally declined their offer saying i could manage. It was important that the offer was made and i appreciate it. also my dogs still come first. since i have been back, i have bathed 3 of them and groomed the rest and as soon as my bum allows i will bath the others. i still walk them and the puppies have to walked on their own so that invloves sevral walks one after the other. i don't use my sticks just pills. pups have to be trained outside on their own for their confidence. if you take them out with eachother or with an adult, they don't learn to be independent and when you eventually do take them out on their own, they can freak. i get down on myself for being such a winp somtimes, for being afraid of things that otherts seem to take in their stride. like the ferry and the bridge. but then i remind myslef that the important thing is i do these things despite my fear. i guess if i wasn't scared, it'd be no big deal. anyway off to bathe myself and make sure my bum smells like an english rose.... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:15:06 +0000 From: tantra_apso Subject: individual njc i normally always make a point of answering personally to each person that send me an email. I ahte not doing that. i think it is impolite. however i juts can't manage that right now so pelase the people who have sent private and public messages this last few days, forgive my lack of manners. i did get your messages and i really appreciate them. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:21:36 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC Anita wrote: - - - I don't feel very safe in my own home and I wonder if anything else might happen tonight Dearest Anita, No. This is so wrong! The police never should have disregarded you. I suggest you play the game. Did you get the name of the officer you talked to? This person needs to be reported. There is somebody in your town, somebody with some clout who can help you. You aren't the only lesbians in your city, and there have got to be people who can help you. Just don't lower yourself to the standard of the creeps who are harassing you. Let them see the intelligent, level headed, and strong woman you are. My heart goes out to you. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:30:34 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: sharing misery,njc Anita and Steph, I met you two and cannot believe that anyone would THINK to treat you two that way. Marianne >From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) >Subject: Sharing my misery _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:35:39 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC Anita wrote: the police and the woman at the phone said 'You just shouldn't have to put up with that' and her saying that makes me cry more than anything. That she should say that feels like we don't deserve this and 'normal' people really feel that way. Dear Anita, After reading the other posts, I re-read yours... I'm reading without my glasses!! and I didn't see the little "n't" on the shouldn't. Now, I'm laughing! I'm glad the police lady supported you, and I hope they will steep up the patrolling of your neighborhood. So much for my aging eyes! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:13:37 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: U2, njc I like it a bunch, Laurent...it's more like a throwback to their War/Boy stuff, a bit more stripped down and mainstream rocking. And it's no small coincidence that it's produced by Steve Lillywhite who produced those early U2 gems...still have to listen to it a lot more to let it sink in. And isn't it cool that they have remained totally intact with the same 4 guys for 25 years? Has any other band in R&R history done that? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:08:07 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: sharing misery,njc I think young boys are so unsure of their sexuality at that age that it makes them feel they have to go to the extreme.(not all boys ..of course ) You know.....like just show their manhood...go harass some gays... ALso couple that with the mob mentality....( none of them alone would have the guts to dish out what they did to you and Steph) So ..so sorry Anita I've seen into your heart because you have shared it through your music..."they no not what they did." My thoughts are with you both.. I pray the boys will see the light/... Bree >From: "Marianne Rizzo" >Reply-To: "Marianne Rizzo" >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: sharing misery,njc >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:30:34 -0500 > >Anita and Steph, > >I met you two and cannot believe that anyone would THINK to treat you two >that way. > > >Marianne > > >>From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) >>Subject: Sharing my misery > >_________________________________________________________________ >Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:59:18 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: If you're not up for misery, delete immediately NJC Dearest Anita and Steph, Your message really hit me straight in the stomach - maybe even more so because I live in London, relatively close to your home town, and have visited you there (at Joni's 60th birthday celebration). I just couldn't imagine you being treated like that! I'm so glad you acted and reacted, that you let your fury out and shared your pain too. When I say I could not imagine you being treated like that, don't get me wrong: I know those reactions exist, sadly enough. Just like I know child abuse exists, and racism, and general thuggism, and even worse, innocent young women have got battered to death after an evening out in West London or knifed during a jog in the park in Victoria Park. I know, I know. It's unacceptable, all of it. But please don't think it's normal, or that it's what everybody condones. You said the worst was that nobody reacted, no curtain twitched. Surely you don't think it's because people thought: "Oh, I don't care, it's only a couple of lezzies getting what they deserve"? See, if you got that feeling, then that would make it twice as bad. I know Colin has also many times mentioned how it was the almost standard way he was treated in London. I would like to think my dear friend Colin is wrong, that in fact he was the victim of a very nasty, but very small minority. Don't you think it's more likely that the people in their houses just had their TV on too loud, or their double glazing really does shut the outside sounds out, or maybe even some of them were too scared to react or did not know what was going on, but not that they understood and did not care? I have no reason to say this, to convince you that "things are not that bad", except that this is my experience. I'll just quickly give you 2 examples. The first case is my son's schoolfriend Amy. I know the family very well, they're close friends. When Amy was 6, her parents split up because the mother had got into a gay relationship and wanted to live with her new partner. Amy's father was first understandably upset, but worked out an amicable split and 13 years later, I can only say it's been a success story. Everybody around was fully supportive, the 2 women were very popular in the "parents group" and in the school community, Amy and her brother have never been embarrassed to tell anyone that their mother lived with another woman, and when the 2 women had another baby (through sperm donation) I can remember how overjoyed everybody was. I've just never heard a negative vibe. The other example is simply a male gay couple who live 2 doors down from us. We live in a typical cul-de-sac with around 15 houses, the inhabitants are mainly white middle class of varying ages, with 2 ethnic minority families. The community spirit is almost like out of a TV soap: everybody knows everybody by name, we regularly have parties in each other's house or garden, we hold spare keys of each other's house and look after each other's pets. Apart from the gay couple I mentioned, who are my favourite neighbours (we spent a weekend away in Belgium recently), the cul-de-sac has had a fair share of gay inhabitants: there was another male gay couple who were very popular because they had strange exotic animals, and our other neighbours' eldest daughter lived with her girlfriend in a rented basement flat for a few years. All I can say is, never did I hear a single negative word against any of them, they're always the centre of any animated chat when we get together. People just talk about "the boys" (which amuses them no end). When my sons were younger, they would get the occasional lift to school in their car, there was never a second thought. I don't want to be naove, as I said I know there is another side. (In fact one of those gay neighbours works in a rough school and has to keep his private life totally secret, for fear of losing his authority with those kids, I thought that was shocking when he told me.) So I really only wanted to send you a message of support and a big hug and just say: yes, be angry with those little bastards, don't accept any of it, but please don't hurt yourself more by thinking that all those people in their houses agree with those yobs. And otherwise: do move into our cul-de-sac, you will fit in perfectly! Lots of love, Lieve (who should be out of this office by now!) ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:50:35 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: U2, Joan Armatrading, etc, njc And isn't it cool that they have remained totally intact with the same 4 guys for 25 years? Has any other band in R&R history done that? Bob I guess the Stones' line up has been stable from 75 when Ron Wood joined until the 90's when Bill Wyman left. Watching U2's video clip, I couldn't help thinking that they probably are a strong contestant to the title of greatest rock band since the Stones are getting tired IMO. I posted a while back about Joan Armatrading's latest 2003 tour DVD. Before receiving my order, I found another one at the store which is infinitely more interesting: features 2 full concerts in Germany from 79 in front of 80 people and from 80 in front of 8000 people (Rockpalast TV broadcast). She surely "shows some emotion" and this is her most creative period. Highly recommended and you can definitely skip the 2003, no contest. Can't wait to receive the latest DVDs from Richard Thompson, Los Lobos and Festival Express. I'll throw a last one: the old-timer jazz guitarist who told me about Sister Keiruz also recommended Chuck Wayne, nice 50's jazz and in his opinion much more musical than Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel and the like. Chuck Wayne's main CD is out of print and costs $80 on Amazon. Does anyone have it? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:33:23 -0800 From: Subject: Sharing my misery - thanks NJC I am so sad to here this sort of thing is happening to you Anita... I hope your chasing the punks scared them... & that this will be enough to keep them at bay... Catherine is right, here in the USA what they have done would be considered a hate crime... I am so glad you called the police & they were kind & supportive... & glad you could come here to tell us all... Colin, I really enjoyed your travel tales & am so sorry that you are dealing with so many physical difficulties... I think you are so courageous... [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:41:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The Fiddle And The Drum Watched the morning news on channel 2 of Israel. Armed soldiers forcing a Palestinan to play the fiddle for them at the border. Nuriel Meet the all-new My Yahoo!  Try it today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:51:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: U2, Joan Armatrading, etc, njc **I guess the Stones' line up has been stable from 75 when Ron Wood joined until the 90's when Bill Wyman left. True, but the Stones are disqualified because their original line up with Brian Jones only lasted a couple of years. And I do think that U2 can lay claim to being the greatest rock and roll band, although those E-Streeters are on a roll as well. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Somewhere" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:14:59 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni v.s. Evil What do you think is the best way to fight Evil with songs? To Describe it as it is, or to spread positivity? Nuriel All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:59:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni v.s. Evil Nuriel Tobias wrote: > What do you think is the best way to fight Evil with songs? To Describe it as it is, or to spread positivity? Drop jukeboxes on bad people. I think both ways are good. People like Bruce Cockburn, John Trudell, and Joni Mitchell have effectively used serious lyrics to talk about serious things. Maybe the song enforces your own belief in something, maybe it introduces you to an issue that you later learn more about (Magdelena Laundries, for instance). Altho a purely intellectual approach, for me anyway, can be a little too dry, bread with no butter. Spreading positivity; I would say spreading a higher consciousness- showing through art and harmony the possibility for a more harmonious relationship with the world- is another way of going about it. The Beatles, Yes, and many others. The best, like Joni or Pink Floyd or Lennon use both simultaneously. Another approach is just to do whatever you are doing, and donate to worthy organizations. The Grateful Dead did this-you would be hard pressed to find a political song amongst their reperitiore, but they funnelled gobs of money to many philanthropic causes. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:39:19 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Sharing your Misery; njc Hi Sometimes humor is the best way to deal with the situation. There's gotta be some line that will simply make those pricks speechless. I think the main reason why some men get angry at lesbians is that they feel they haven't got a chance to seduce them. I'm convinced that their true fantasy is to be "the" man who will make you like men after you've seen how "great" they are. So maybe if you pretend in a humorous (but not mocking) way that you're attracted to the leader of the pack then they would have no more cause to be after you. This is just a thought. If it doesn't work then you can always change tactic. I'm sure some of you on JMDL have been in that situation. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:08:52 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni v.s. Evil Dead thoughts now NJC - --- Randy Remote wrote: > Another approach is just to do whatever you are doing, and donate to > worthy organizations. The Grateful Dead did this-you would be hard > pressed to find a political song amongst their reperitiore, but they > funnelled > gobs of money to many philanthropic causes. To me the Dead are just real positive anyway, and the whole Dead thing kind of is a counter-evil force. Sort of a juggernaut of good will. I feel some serious "Love Light" from them everytime I see them. The other day I was feeling like double-shite, and while working outside I put on American Beauty and it just friggen' healed me. And re: the other discussion about the greatest rock bands, I guess to me the Dead are at least in the Top 5, despite the high rate of attrition among band members. They're just *out there*, doing what they do, pretty much all the time. Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Sharing your Misery; njc Laurent suggested: > So maybe if you pretend in a humorous (but not > mocking) way > that you're attracted to the leader of the pack then they would have > no more > cause to be after you. I, for one, would find this extremely humiliating. sheesh... Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:46:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Sharing your Misery; njc > I, for one, would find this extremely humiliating. > sheesh... > Em I understand and I expected my post to raise a few eyebrows, to say the least. Could be my survivor syndrome but I believe that to some extent the end justifies the means. Besides she would be having the last laugh if the guy fell for it. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:57:44 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Sharing your Misery; njc perhaps there is someone out there who could pull it off with style, and as you say, walk away with the last laugh. Yeah I mean it would be preferable to death - to quote Mrs Rosen in the Poseidon Adventure.."life always matters very much". Life is sooooo freakin odd.......and I am so thankful for it. Even when I am flabbergasted at some of the idiocy. But yes, one must survive. Em ps: but that would be like my LAST resort, lol, like i would even PRAY first.....I wonder if Amelia and Fred as a last resort tried to seduce the Pacific Ocean - offered it a blow job..... NP Little Jack Melody "Beethoven Song" "laufet brueder eure bahn".... and so on and so forth.... - --- Laurent Olszer wrote: > > I, for one, would find this extremely humiliating. > > sheesh... > > Em > > I understand and I expected my post to raise a few eyebrows, to say > the > least. > Could be my survivor syndrome but I believe that to some extent the > end > justifies the means. > Besides she would be having the last laugh if the guy fell for it. > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:42:53 -0500 From: Subject: I'm thankful for... njc I'm thankful for my family, the fellowship, and music on the JMDL. I'm thankful that I survived another early-November, the roughest time of year for me I'm thankful for those who've passed on and left some wonderful memories behind. I'm thankful for the survivors who've been restored to health. I'm thankful for the bandwidth because (as a loner), it gives me an outlet for writing. JMDL has brought more meaning to my life. And many live recordings... Through this list I realized that I was only one title away from becoming a Joni Completist. Thanks for all of the talented people on the list, beginning and ending with Joni Mitchell of course. Her light shines so brightly that many dozens of strangers have gathered 'round it. Amen. Jim L'Hommedieu Lama Covington, KY PS, Sue Mac's friend, Patti Whitten has a cool song about the Holidays. I don't have it handy here at work but maybe I'll post some lines from it later this weekend. Like many of us, we are looking at a 4 day weekend! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:25:05 -0500 From: Subject: Ukraine election mess, njc Vad, I have been reading about the election you had in the Ukraine. It is an internal matter and I respect that. There are a lot of us in the west who are watching it and pray that the people of the Ukraine have a result that reflects their wishes. Hang in there. Whatever happens, having a representative government is ALWAYS an on-going struggle. It's worth it. Lama USA np: believe it or not, "Coyote" from the soundtrack of "The Last Waltz" on our local singer-songwriter radio station ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:42:03 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: njc Concert for George I just found this on the George Harrison forum - I had no idea and I can't go to the Chicago show, someone please go and and give George and Dhani some audience love for me Vince Hey There all George fans. There will be screenings of the Concert for George in LA, NY, Austin, Chicago and SF next week. Proceeds from all events will go to benefit the American Cancer Society. The LA, Austin and Chicago screenings will take place on the 29th of November, the 3rd anniversary of George's passing and the 2nd anniversary of the Concert for George. The LA show will be at the Knitting Factory Hollywood (7021 Hollywood Blvd) and will feature special live performances after the screening. Performers will include Rusty Anderson (guitarist for Paul McCartney) and JACKIE LOMAX (The first artist signed to APPLE!) Doors at 6:30. Movie at 7pm. Performances to follow. DVD giveaways night of show. Tickets are only $8. Austin - the screening is at the Alamo Drafthouse Village location. 2700 W. Anderson. The event will be hosted by KGSR radio personality Jody Denberg who was at the Concert for George. The doors are at 9:15pm for the 9:45pm screening. Admission is only a $5 minimum donation. Chicago - The screening is at the Loews Pipers Alley. 1608 N. Wells St. The event is presented by WXRT. The screening is at 8pm sharp. Admission is a suggested $9 donation. The San Francisco show is on December 1st, and like the LA show, will feature amazing live performances following the movie. The show is at The Independent (628 Divisidero Street). Doors are at 7pm. The Movie will run at 8pm. Following the movie we'll have performances by Firecracker and Chris Von Sniedern, followed by a set from Cheb i Sabbah, a phenomenal DJ who incorporates Indian rhythms, live drums, visuals and dancers into one mind-bending show. Tickets are $10 in advance, $12 at the door. The New York show will be at the New York Knitting Factory (74 Leonard St.) The doors will be at 6:30, with the screening at 7pm. After the movie there will be performances by Josh Fix, The Paparazzi, 20 Miles (featuring Judah Bauer of Blues Explosion) and SPECIAL GUEST KARNAMRITA DASI!!! She used to chant with George in India, and she is coming into New York for this show. Her voice is AMAZING. Tickets are $10 in advance, $12 at the door. Please, please, please pass this information around to anyone you might know in any of these cities. This should be a rare opportunity to see the Concert for George in a social setting, have a few drinks, see some brilliant live music, and help to raise money to be donated to the American Cancer Society. Muskegon: my once and new home http://www.ci.muskegon.mi.us/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Ukraine election mess, njc --- jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > Vad, > I have been reading about the election you had in > the Ukraine. It is an internal matter and I respect > that. There are a lot of us in the west who are > watching it and pray that the people of the Ukraine > have a result that reflects their wishes. > > Hang in there. Whatever happens, having a > representative government is ALWAYS an on-going > struggle. It's worth it. > The people of the Ukraine have a lot of support. There was a huge rally today at the Ukrainian consulate that I pass on the way to work. There were at least 6 very large coach buses unloading people who were there to demonstrate. There is quite a large Ukrainian population in Toronto, especially in my part of town. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doctors' pills give you brand new ills. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #472 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)