From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #456 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 456 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now [] I Had A Donald [Nuriel Tobias ] Joni's birthday and Kabalah secrets [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni mix on Blogcritics [Deb Messling ] Re: I Had A Donald [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [Jerry Notaro ] Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it ["Steven] Rhythm & Torch Gig NJC ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: Detroit ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [Lori Fye ] RE: Kate's Joni Birthday gig! [] Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now [] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [dsk ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [Lori Fye ] Interesting analysis, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] Wild Carrot (Slight Joni Content) ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [Deb Messling ] Re: Wild Carrot (Slight Joni Content) NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni mix on Blogcritics [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] the election - NJC [Suzanne MarcAurele ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ [Lori Fye ] Urge For Going (doubts and cunfusion once again) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: tea leaf [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: At Last - My Reply NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: tea leaf (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Face Lift and Lady Blessington [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: tea leaf (NJC) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: tea leaf (Not a Joni post) [Nuriel Tobias ] Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now [Rob & T] Re: ["Wallykai" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:02:35 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now Lori Fye wrote: "I'm thinking that, after 10 years of marriage to Larry, Joni would have more reason to come out with BSN than she had after a few years with Donald. Or maybe "Last Chance Lost" said it all." That would be a bit strange, considering the fact the Larry was very much involved in the making of BSN. Maybe, after all, it's "easier" to trust and be fond of someone you were married to (rare thing when it comes to ex-couples, i know, but Joni and Larry were a rare couple). Nuri ~ Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:12:04 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: I Had A Donald (I've re-sent this post under a different Subject for i was speachless once reading that Catherine thinks that what Donald said to Joni was a silly reason for them to break up.) Catherine said  "How do you know he left her? She might have been the one to end it - or it could have been mutual. You never know." Deb replied  "Okay, this sounds so gossipy, but I recall Joni saying that they broke up on September 11, 2001, and that she broke it off after Donald accused her of repeating herself." First of all  Deb, the Bible is gossip too, so please feel very unguilty:) My take? A man who accuses a woman of repeating herself is a coward who don't have the guts to break up and simply awaits the woman to do it for him, so this time, I'm happy to find out, Joni gave up the wrong infant for the very right reasons. Back then lots of Donald-related threads were going 'round here, and I got the impression that he's a charming Gentleman that teaches kids poetry. All I can say is  welcome to the "Lucky Girl" list, you idiot. He was loved by one of the most amazing women on earth, and this "repeating herself" thingWell, what can I say? Ok  no mercy here  I think this man was only basking in Joni's spotlight and when she, as we all know "gets that crazy feeling" forgot that it's "trouble again", and he managed to fool her. (and don't anyone even think of posting and telling me that no one can fool Joni, thank you very much). As I see it he spotted "the chance" at one of her weakest and lonesome periods. I recall a post regarding the Joni all star Tribute where the description of a "meaningless" event was that slides or clips of Joni were shown on the screen, and when the young Joni photos were screened he started sobbing and she hugged him to calm his "e(my ass)motiones". That "meaningless" scene alone was good enough for my red alert lights to go flashing. That man should've gotten the Oscar for his acting, and Myrtle, I'm afraid, knew exactly what she was talking about when she adviced her daughter to "snap out of it!". I now have no doubt as to what drove Joni to record BSN. As I see it now, it's Joni's score settling with LOVE, and maybe i'm beginning to loose my sight, but I don't see too many love songs on Travelogue either. I wrote  "I wonder if Joni is even able to listen to TTT...and in case she listens to it every now and then, i wonder what she's going through..." Catherine then answered - "I'm sure I've read the Joni never listens to her own stuff once it's out there. Don't know if that's true, but listening to yourself is kind of strange anyway. I don't think I'd want to do it!" Yes, I also read that, Catherine, though I know lots of other musicians that do listen to their own music on daily basis. Both ways seem strange to me, but let me rephrase my question  "I wonder if Joni hasn't burned TTT and all it's Donald songs and flashed the ashes down the toilet". One of her best albums, imho, I think that "Love puts on a new face" is Joni's best love song, imho again, words can't describe what I'm going through when I hear it, when it comes to the lyric "I miss your touch and your lips so much I long for our next embrace" I always faint for surely even a deaf man would notice the pure love nearly breaking Joni's voice into tears in that song  but if that's the case, hey, I'm moving back to "underneath the streetlight" for Larry Klein suddenly seems to me a knight in a shining armor! So yes, Catherine, maybe she doesn't listen to her own albums, but I do, and I dread the next time I'll play TTT and you bet I'll be "repeating" it over and over again, pretending that all the Donald songs were about her cat, but 'Lead Balloon'! Then Catherine wrote  "She has said that she started writing when she lost her daughter and stopped when she found her again". Before I met my man I used to constantly write love songs. The day I met him  I stopped. My advice? Don't let "if music be the food of love" turn into "if love be the food of music". There's a dark spell in it. Catherine wrote  "I think she's a lot braver in love than most of us are and that she wouldn't give up that easily. There may be another man in her life or there may not be. Sometimes being alone, even if it's only for a short while, can be the most liberating experience." Catherine, I've just called 911! Love, Nuriel Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:16:33 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni's birthday and Kabalah secrets Once again, this ex-yeshiva guy, would like to share his "wisdome" for anyone who's interested.:) OK. In the Kabalah, each Hebrew letter has a number matching it. (This method is called "Gimatriyah") (Just to help you undrestand how it works Kabalah-wish - The Hebrew letter "Alef" (A)=1. "Bet" (B)=2. And so on. From "Yod" (I)=10 it changes a bit. "Caf" (K)=20 "Lamed" (L)=30 And so on. Than from "Koof" (Q)=100. "Resh" (R)=200 "Shin" (SH)-300 And the last letter "Taf" (T)=400.) Back to Joni. Last year Joni was 60 years old. 60="Samech" (S). 60 and "Samech" (S) represent the Devil. According to the Kabalah "Once the Devil was created - women were created". This idea is based on the fact that the first time that the letter "Samech" (S) appears in the Bible is when Eve was created and on the fact that Devil in Hebrew is called "Someael" (meaning "Drug of God) - ("Some" - Drug, "el" - God). Ever since that idea started whenever the letter "Samech" (S) or the number 60 appears or is mentioned - it's considered as Devilish. This year Joni is celebrating her 61th birthday. 61=the letter "Alef" (A)+the letter "Samech" (S). "Alef-Samech" (AS), according to the Kabalah, represtnts ETERNITY, and 61 or the combination of "Alef-Samech" (AS) are considered as highly blessed. So this year Joni is celebrating ETERNITY! Love, Nuri p.s. In case anyone got upset when reading the Kabalah's "Once the Devial was created - women were created", i would like to explain that Kabalah has nothing again women at all. Au contrair. Unlike men, women do not need to study the Bible or perform Mitzvot (orders) for the reason that, as the Kabalah says "While men must study etc...women were born with all the secrets of the universe inside them". It even advices Husbands to "listen to everything his wife says about anything at all" - for "Whatever a woman says - is Kabalah". As to "Once the Devial was created - women were created", what the Kabalah was trying to say is that once such a negative and deadly creature as the Devial was created - the only thing that could balance it and stand against it was a woman. And if that's not jc - then i really don't know!:) Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 06:42:08 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni mix on Blogcritics At 10:23 PM 11/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >However, the known recordings of almost all her songs (save a Nazareth >cover of "This Flight Tonight") are her own. OH YEAH???? Introduce this guy to Bob. However, the song choices for this mix are quite interesting. Obviously more than a surface knowledge of Joni. Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:48:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I Had A Donald --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > (I've re-sent this post under a different Subject > for i was speachless once reading that Catherine > thinks that what Donald said to Joni was a silly > reason for them to break up.) > > Catherine said  "How do you know he left her? She > might have been the one to end it - or it could have > been mutual. You never know." > > > > Deb replied  "Okay, this sounds so gossipy, but I > recall Joni saying that they broke up on September > 11, 2001, and that she broke it off after Donald > accused her of repeating herself." > > Back then > lots of Donald-related threads were going 'round > here, and I got the impression that he's a charming > Gentleman that teaches kids poetry. All I can say is >  welcome to the "Lucky Girl" list, you idiot. He > was loved by one of the most amazing women on earth, > and this "repeating herself" thingWell, what can I > say? Ok  no mercy here  I think this man was only > basking in Joni's spotlight and when she, as we all > know "gets that crazy feeling" forgot that it's > "trouble again", and he managed to fool her. (and > don't anyone even think of posting and telling me > that no one can fool Joni, thank you very much). As > I see it he spotted "the chance" at one of her > weakest and lonesome periods. Sorry, Nuri, I realize we're all just speculating here and you may be right, but somehow I doubt it. I don't think Donald had any particular wish to bask in reflected glory, because he seems to be very happy at what he does. Maybe Joni's fame had something to do with it though. It would be difficult for most ordinary people to hook up with someone famous. I'm not suggesting Donald is ordinary, but how many of us had ever heard of him before we knew he and Joni were an item? Joni's statement about "repeating herself" might be her idea of a joke (or it might not.) Sometimes things just don't work out. I imagine Joni went through her share of heartache over this and then got on with it. Just my opinion. In that way, she IS repeating herself, but it's probably more of a spiral game than circle game. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:13:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ Sorry, Lori. You don't know the least of it. There were many more incidents, which go way beyond abusive. >> Marcel's problem was not his political beliefs, but that he was WHACKO! > > Marcel is not necessarily whacko, but he was definitely abusive, at least to > Debra. And it was absolutely out of line (to put it mildly). > > Lori > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:48:32 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it My understanding of some Joni History: Joni wrote Facelift after Christmas '93-She performed it in Toronto in September 94. She and Donald broke up September 2001. That brings us up to almost 8 years... That's a long distance relationship of 8 years, as well... Whew! >>> Lori Fye 11/08/04 10:01PM >>> Nuriel wrote: > Wow. Poor Joni. Recording an album with more than half of it's songs being > love songs to Donald or Donald-related songs and even one song by Donald > about their love, while they're still in love - at least up to 2000 - then > him not only leaving her, but leaving her with an album that is a celebration > of their love, now a souvenir, and in way, a mocking it's own creator > souvenir...My oh my...I wonder if Joni is even able to listen to it...and in > case she listens to it every now then, i wonder what she's going through...No > wonder BSN was the result... That an interesting observation, about BSN. Could be. As far as an album of "lover-related" songs goes, though, how about WTRF? One could opine that album is almost entirely about Larry. Of course Joni and Larry have remained friends, but I'm sure they didn't smoothly segue from marriage to best friendship. I'm thinking that, after 10 years of marriage to Larry, Joni would have more reason to come out with BSN than she had after a few years with Donald. Or maybe "Last Chance Lost" said it all. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:09:34 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Rhythm & Torch Gig NJC Hey all, How I spent Joni's Birthday... Rhythm & Torch had a great gig on Sunday- with a mini mini-jonifest. Mia and Kerry & friend showed up and stayed for all 3 sets! It was so nice to finally put a face to the very lovely Mia (btw, Jeff and I talked on the way home on how very pretty she is!), and of course to see my good friend Kerry (and her friend Linda) again! M's is a rather small room, but we had a good crowd and a great response to my originals. Tony plays a mean, mean conga and Yolonda is a diva. Oh, and I was alright too... ;-) We did 5 Jonisongs during the course of the evening: Hissing of Summer Lawns, Two Grey Rooms, Sex Kills, Night Ride Home and an impromptu Big Yellow Taxi...(I only mentioned that it was Joni's birthday twice, as not to scare the patrons!) lol...and they went over well, too. The best news is yet to come- there is talk about possible bookings on a regular basis at M's, and two other gigs in the works at other establishments! Great news since this was only our second show! So please wish me (us) luck with these, and I will keep you posted. Just a little note here- Yolonda said to me after I had given her a bunch of Jonisongs that I wanted Rythm Torch to do; "The more I listen to her, the more of a genius I think she is. No wonder you love her so much!" See? Yet another convert in the making... (hee hee). there may be a few more of Joni's works added to our setlist in the near future! BTW, hope your celebration of your birthday was as fun as mine was, Joan! My best to you, Steve Rhythm & Torch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:07:46 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Detroit Oh Paz! All my love and prayers are with you and your family right now. You are so very, very special and you are also family in my heart. I am doing fine but concerned about how you are doing. I'm glad you are able to visit and dine with your family. It will help you all stand by your brother who is hanging in there. Remeber to lean upon each other stay focused on the love you feel for one another. Love you Paz! Sherelle Paz wrote: Hi Guys I am in Detroit land of my birth. How surreal is this? My brother is hanging in there but not good. I will be here as long as it takes. I had dinner with my sister and her husband and daugther and her husband last night and it was great to be with them. Hope all is well with everyone. I will try to check in as the week goes by. My aol address is the hot one for now but I can be contacted by cell if you have it. Love Paz _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:17:26 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ Jerry wrote, of my thought that Marcel is not necessarily whacko: > Sorry, Lori. You don't know the least of it. There were many more incidents, > which go way beyond abusive. Okey doke. I'll take your word for it, Jerry. I trust your judgment. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:03:40 -0800 From: Subject: RE: Kate's Joni Birthday gig! One thing I forgot to mention that I thought was so interesting is that the fellow who performed 'the priest' had many members of the audience who came to here him & they were nuns in their habits... I wonder what they thought of that song... a priest in an airport bar? [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:03:57 -0800 From: Subject: Re: "My Child's A Stranger" - now "TTT - Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now >Donald Freed was in town this past summer performing with a group of local musicians in a neighbourhood venue. I met him and had a little chat about 'things'. Suffice to say, he wasnt willing to engage in any conversation of the Joni kind. Mags.< I did not realize he was a musician... what sort? [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:59:40 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ Lori Fye wrote: > > Jerry wrote, of my thought that Marcel is not necessarily whacko: > > > Sorry, Lori. You don't know the least of it. There were many more incidents, > > which go way beyond abusive. > > Okey doke. I'll take your word for it, Jerry. I trust your judgment. Lori, It wasn't just ME having trouble, although that's how it's been simplified. I thought at first it WAS just me getting such nasty responses so I tried being accommodating thinking it would change, but then, when other people started making the same request of Marcel (that is, NO PRIVATE EMAILS!) and people started telling me privately about similar messages they were receiving, I realized it didn't have anything to do with me, other than Marcel thinking I was an easy target. When it became clear how widespread the intimidation was, how hateful his attitude was, and his demand that it all be kept private... that's when I started considering it abusive behavior, and got fed up with being told by some people here (not the ones getting the messages), to "work around it" or "put up with it." No, putting up with abuse just allows it to get worse. So what if *I* somehow had managed to no longer be a target? It seemed immoral to allow other people to be targets in my place rather than face the situation and try to change it. People's reactions are never exactly the same so maybe other people really were not bothered by such messages, or their filters worked effectively enough, or they somehow dealt with it differently than I did. One person told me that after she told Marcel to fuck off, he treated her decently. It didn't occur to me to do that, it's just not my style, and after the "setup" was in place, I doubt that telling him to fuck off would have worked for me. That would just be ammunition for him, the ONLY ammunition, in his "see, she's just as bad" claim, which is a claim abusers usually make. It's a variation on, "she made me do it." Yeah, right. What a disgusting subject! It churns my stomach thinking back to all that and remembering other abusive situations, and knowing that often there's no "virtual" about it, and the abuse is all too real and not easily escaped. As unpleasant as the "Marcel experience" was, at least I and other people here who were treated badly could always turn off the computer. Oh, and change addresses, too, just in case anyone's tempted to make it "real". In my experience, it's rare that a hateful man changes his ways. And that's really all I want to say about it. My heart goes out to anyone being mistreated in any way. And now, soul-enriching projects in lurkerland beckon... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:22:13 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ Debra wrote: > Lori, It wasn't just ME having trouble, although that's how it's been > simplified. Thanks for the refresher, Debra. I guess I did know all of that, but had forgotten. Old age is really beginning to suck. What I still haven't been able to figure out is why I never became such a target for Marcel. I'm at least as "rabid" a lefty as you are! (At least I hope so!) The only thing I can figure is that I'm somehow off-limits for him because I'm a veteran. > And now, soul-enriching projects in lurkerland beckon... Enjoy!! Lori, who is resisting the urge to change the subject to "Curry/Heinz" ... I'm thinking of the curry ketchup I used to eat in Germany ... mmm ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:45:28 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Interesting analysis, NJC http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:30:29 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Wild Carrot (Slight Joni Content) At my gig this past Friday, I played on the same bill as a duo named "Wild Carrot." Joni fnas might enjoy their song "These Songs," which contains a "Michael From Mountains" reference in the chorus. It is available as a free mp3 download from their site: http://www.wildcarrot.net/store.html According to the site, the song was the "winner of the Walnut Valley Festival's New Songs Contest and finalist for the prestigious Kerrville Folk Festival's New Folk Contest." Anyway, I liked the song a lot and thought some of you might enjoy it. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:40:51 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz now bullies NJC Hi Deb, I was reading your post and was amazed how much this applies to me personally. It was a real eye opener! Boy! This is excatly what I just went through with someone who was almost my manager. Words can not describe the torment they put you through. They make you feel so degraded and ashamed and are so forceful that they try to make you believe an absolute lie. I have to say that my experience is a very personal one that has consummed my time and my emotional energy and has caused me to lose so much sleep lately...but hopefully no more. Someone wise worded advice a little differently for me by telling me that no one can tell me who I am. Both pearls of wisdom are very timely and wise. Deb, I took those words of advice that you gave at the end of your post and it is helping me. I trusted this bully...gave him my friendship because he put on a different face and hid the true one. Cathy, that part you said about them being charming is most definitely true. Most definitely. I'm encouraged because good things are starting to happen just when I thought I had to go back to the drawing board. It's very encouraging. I want to prove that bullies don't win in the end. I want to limit my "bitter apple" talk because frankly, it's not worth the emotional effort and I want to concentrate on not letting people like this control and ruin my life. They are not worth it. Thanks Catherine and Deb for helping me get in touch with my feelings and moving on. I appreciate it! Deb wrote: Catherine McKay wrote: > >... One thing about >bullies is that it's never their fault. It's always >someone else's fault, most often their wife or their >kid, or maybe their boss, a co-worker, their mother or >sister, or maybe the next-door neighbour but, failing >that, anyone who happens to be around at the time. ... > >if *everyone >in the world* is against you, maybe you should just >have a good look at yourself?) ... >And the ones who are capable of >charming some people while bullying and threatening >others are most likely narcissists - >all they can see >is themselves and what they see is always right, never >wrong. Pathetic and sad, but ultimately we're >responsible for ourselves and our own sanity. Very true. One of the first lessons of therapy is that the only person you can change is yourself. The hope is that once a person changes, everyone in their life ends up changing in response. I don't know how often that second part happens, but in theory it sounds good. The first lesson is the most important one, and the hardest!, because it's so much easier (but not at all effective) to try to "fix" everyone else. Life truly is for learning. It ain't easy. Debra Shea _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:59:52 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Drawing table memory (was Kerry/Heinz) NJC PC~ So I'm at my drawing table by the front windows and can see it again today as it was on September 12, 2001 all covered with that "dust" so finely ground that it came in through those closed windows and settled on my most precious workspace, and it reminds me of this: that I can indeed go to "f*ck you" when pushed to my limit, which that day included not sleeping since walking home the day before through the papers and ash that covered downtown, thinking 100,000 people had just died, taking a walk on Wednesday to get out of this space and passing the neighborhood firehouse and finding out 10 men from there were missing (out of 11 people stationed there), feeling fragile and distraught and then coming home, turning on the computer and reading more garbage from Marcel. The final straw was reading what seemed, to me at that time, like a snide message from Michael to one of the two friends here who'd been so publicly supportive, and after all that, I do recall writing lots of f*ck yous, probably in CAPS. It's too painful to ever look at messages from that time again. I still feel bad about targeting you, Michael, when you didn't deserve it. You're a good-hearted soul and I don't think you'd ever deliberately choose to hurt anyone, and if I hadn't felt so vulnerable at the time, I doubt if I would have reacted that way toward you. I have a feeling you understand all that. I hope NEVER to be so tested again! So although I still think telling someone to f*ck off is "not my style", I certainly can go there. And maybe should have right away with Marcel (since I'm not a veteran... hi Lori, sister in lefty-hood :-). It may have been the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Okay. That's all. No, really! My drawing table is now dust free! Back to it... Debra Shea, in NYC sending healing vibes toward Detroit dsk wrote: > > ... One person told me that after she told Marcel to fuck off, he > treated her decently. It didn't occur to me to do that, it's just not my > style, and after the "setup" was in place, I doubt that telling him to > fuck off would have worked for me. ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:55:47 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ Hey, I am as lefty as anybody on this list, and just as vocal and annoying, so how come Marcel didn't target me? I feel left out. At 02:22 PM 11/9/2004 -0500, you wrote: >What I still haven't been able to figure out is why I never became such a >target >for Marcel. I'm at least as "rabid" a lefty as you are! (At least I hope >so!) >The only thing I can figure is that I'm somehow off-limits for him because >I'm a >veteran. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:56:39 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ I know - it's because I'm not part of the inner circle. Hey, I am as lefty as anybody on this list, and just as vocal and annoying, so how come Marcel didn't target me? I feel left out. At 02:22 PM 11/9/2004 -0500, you wrote: >What I still haven't been able to figure out is why I never became such a >target >for Marcel. I'm at least as "rabid" a lefty as you are! (At least I hope >so!) >The only thing I can figure is that I'm somehow off-limits for him because >I'm a >veteran. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:22:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Carrot (Slight Joni Content) NJC **Anyway, I liked the song a lot and thought some of you might enjoy it.** Thanks for passing that along, Richard - I liked "These Songs" a lot, and of course got a nice smile at the Joni reference. I also noticed that their pr oducer, Chris Rosser (a fabulous writer/performer in his own right) was behind the boards for Victor's 'Parsonage Lane'. While I was there I listened to the other 2 as well, slut that I am. Bob NP: Elvis C, "King Of America" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:36:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mix on Blogcritics **OH YEAH???? Introduce this guy to Bob. Please do...I'll straighten him out. Actually the opposite of his statement is true...Both Sides Now? Most folks know the Judy Collins version best. Woodstock? CSNY & Matthews Southern Comfort. Big Yellow Taxi by a variety of people, Amy Grant & Counting Crows among the newest (although I admit that most of OUR generation are probably most familiar with Joni's take on it). Urge For Going by Tom Rush, and so on. John Lennon himself asked her why she let everyone else have her hits for her. Bob NP: Tracey Campbell, "Big Yellow Taxi" (unknown but great, she flips the song on its ear!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:55:17 -0500 From: Suzanne MarcAurele Subject: the election - NJC Its over and for what it is worth (a song)...we are all still here electronically kitting the keys ...dialogue...dialogue...to you and me or.... s. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:10:24 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC~ > I know - it's because I'm not part of the inner circle. It can't be that, because neither am I! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Urge For Going (doubts and cunfusion once again) Remember whan a girl named Sarah (i think) posted the list and claimed that Urge for going was her Father's song, and not Joni's? I wasn't a jmdl member then, but soon after i've joined in, the subject was mentioned again. I realized that nearly everyone didn't believe that girl, but then Bob M. suggested that there may be something true in what she said - remember Bob how you quated some lyrics from the song and you said something like "something in those lyrics is very much not Joni's way of writting?". As only now i bought "Hits" - i feel a bit strange whenever i hear it. Could anyone help me out off my confusion, this doubting thing is really starting to drive me insane. Is there an official decision as to who wrote it or will doubt be hanging there forever without anyone knowing the true sroty behind that song? (I'm not asking this in order to pass time - it is really very very important to me to find out the truth, honest) Nuri Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:31:30 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: At Last Last Sunday, I nabbed the opportunity to meet my very first JMDL'ers ever - Kerry and Steve P! It is so wild to actually see the faces and hear the voices of "live, in person" people I had only known previously on a virtual level! JMDL people rule!! Steve's band 'Rhythm and Torch' played at the M & M Club in Milwaukee last Sunday night on Joni's B-day. The band was terrific, and Steve is an incredible multi-talented musician (but of course you guys who have seen him at Jonifest already knew that) - he sang and played both keyboard and guitar throughout the evening. Unfortunately, I arrived late and missed them playing 'Hissing of Summer Lawns', but I did catch them play great covers of other Joni songs, such as 'Night Ride Home,' 'Sex Kills,' 'Big Yellow Taxi,' and 'Two Grey Rooms.' They also played some of their own original tunes and covered other artists, such as Annie Lennox; and Steve's solo performance of 'California Dreamin'' just blew me away! What a perfect way to celebrate Joni's B-day! Mia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: tea leaf Marianne Rizzo wrote: (I chose to not delete parts or edit parts from Marianne's post, my reply is in it's end) Fulujah. . . these strikes, these new reports. . this sounds more and more frightening to me. . a major operation. . coming . . happening? pray for the people ( I'm not the praying kind, but I think it's good) save the soldiers save the innocent. . My friend called me last night to tell me that her brother (I'll call him Joseph), in the reserves, recently deplored to Baghdad, called his wife yesterday. . he walked two miles to get to a phone booth to tell her he loved her.. He is not overtly emotional . . He said that they are telling all women and children to leave Baghdad . .. Have you heard this about Baghdad? it sounded to me that he feels a lot of fear, feels a lot of danger How many civilian deaths is acceptable before this is all over? The children? The body count according to the US Department of Defense, www.casualties.org, The New York Times, www.iraqbodycount.net via my local "City Newspaper" in Rochester, NY states in the November 3rd issue: BO D Y C O U N T: 1,118 American Soldiers 142 Coalition Soldiers approximately 14,219 to 16,352 Iraq civilians killed in the war from the beginning of the war and occupation to Nov. 3rd. ~A recent survey published by Lancet medical journal estimates as many as 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed. What's up with this? I reallly don't know. How many civilians dead is acceptable to you (when all is said and done)? How many soldiers dead is acceptable to you? Really, how many? "newsreels rattle. . . she plants her garden in the spring he does the winter shoveling sleep little darlin'! This is your happy home Don't have kids when you get grown Because this word is shattered The wise are mourning- The fools are joking Oh- what does it matter? The wash needs ironing And the fire needs stoking." ********************************************** Dear Marianne, While this is indeed a nightmare on planet earth, and lots of DED and CMIARS lyrics are quated these days on our list, i'd like to you remind you that: My analyst told me That I was right out of my head The way he described it He said Id be better dead than live I didnt listen to his jive I knew all along That he was all wrong And I knew that he thought I was crazy but Im not Oh no My analyst told me That I was right out of my head He said Id need treatment But Im not that easily led He said I was the type That was most inclined When out of his sight To be out of my mind And he thought I was nuts No more ifs or ands or buts They say as a child I appeared a little bit wild With all my crazy ideas But I knew what was happening I knew I was a genius... Whats so strange when you know That youre a wizard at three I knew that this was meant to be Now I heard little children Were supposed to sleep tight Thats why I got into the vodka one night My parents got frantic Didnt know what to do But I saw some crazy scenes Before I came to Now do you think I was crazy I may have been only three But I was swinging They all laugh at angry young men They all laugh at edison And also at einstein So why should I feel sorry If they just couldnt understand The idiomatic logic That went on in my head I had a brain It was insane Oh they used to laugh at me When I refused to ride On all those double decker buses All because there was no driver on the top My analyst told me That I was right out of my head But I said dear doctor I think that its you instead Because I have got a thing Thats unique and new To prove it Ill have The last laugh on you cause instead of one head I got two And you know two heads are better than one. If only to put a smile on your face... Hugs, Nuri Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:55:54 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: At Last - My Reply NJC Dear listers, Mia, thanks so much for sharing that. I was fortunate enough to meet Steve and Jeff in person at a Jonifest at Full Moon Resort. They look great in leather shorts! Please refer to Jonifest pics to see that (hi steve). love yall and wish i could have been there, donna >>> "mia ortlieb" 11/09/04 8:31 PM >>> Last Sunday, I nabbed the opportunity to meet my very first JMDL'ers ever - Kerry and Steve P! It is so wild to actually see the faces and hear the voices of "live, in person" people I had only known previously on a virtual level! JMDL people rule!! Steve's band 'Rhythm and Torch' played at the M & M Club in Milwaukee last Sunday night on Joni's B-day. The band was terrific, and Steve is an incredible multi-talented musician (but of course you guys who have seen him at Jonifest already knew that) - he sang and played both keyboard and guitar throughout the evening. Unfortunately, I arrived late and missed them playing 'Hissing of Summer Lawns', but I did catch them play great covers of other Joni songs, such as 'Night Ride Home,' 'Sex Kills,' 'Big Yellow Taxi,' and 'Two Grey Rooms.' They also played some of their own original tunes and covered other artists, such as Annie Lennox; and Steve's solo performance of 'California Dreamin'' just blew me away! What a perfect way to celebrate Joni's B-day! Mia This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 23:10:50 -0500 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: tea leaf (NJC) > My friend called me last night to tell me that her brother (I'll call him > Joseph), in the reserves, recently deplored to Baghdad, called his wife > yesterday. Although it was surely a typo, Marianne hit the nail right on its head when she wrote "deplored." What we have done and are doing in Iraq (in the name of what??) is DEPLORABLE. Lori, whose dear friend Nina is shipping out to Iraq on Friday : ( ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:45:49 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Face Lift and Lady Blessington As i dived into a sleepless night of looking up for the origins of some of Joni's lyrics, i found out that the "Face Lift" lyric "Hapinness is the best face lift" was originaly the idea of Lady Blessington (1789-1849) who wrote in her diary that "There's is no cosmetic for beauty like happiness". While digging dipper into the Lady's lifestory, i was amazed to find out that, in many ways, she's an ancient reflection of Joni, and the more i read about her, i couldn't escape the feeling that she's very much related not only to Joni and the song "Face Lift" but to the whole story of TTT. In case you'd like to check it out for yourselves, here's a good link. It's very long, feel free to quit it once it starts borring you, but in case you've got nothing worse to do, perhaps it'll help you understand what i mean. (I wonder if Joni was aware or even inspired by Lady Blessington's lifestory, and won't be surprised is indeed she was) http://www.poetrymagazines.org.uk/magazine/record.asp?id=828 Nuri Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: tea leaf (NJC) My man told me that lots of U.S.A. citizens who protested against the war are now in jail. He's very seldom wrong when it comes to information, but i just had to ask you - is this true or what? Nuri Lori Fye wrote: > My friend called me last night to tell me that her brother (I'll call him > Joseph), in the reserves, recently deplored to Baghdad, called his wife > yesterday. Although it was surely a typo, Marianne hit the nail right on its head when she wrote "deplored." What we have done and are doing in Iraq (in the name of what??) is DEPLORABLE. Lori, whose dear friend Nina is shipping out to Iraq on Friday : ( Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:32:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: tea leaf (Not a Joni post) My man told me that lots of U.S.A. citizens who protested against the war are now in jail. He's very seldom wrong when it comes to information, but i just had to ask you - is this true or what? Nuri Lori Fye wrote: > My friend called me last night to tell me that her brother (I'll call him > Joseph), in the reserves, recently deplored to Baghdad, called his wife > yesterday. Although it was surely a typo, Marianne hit the nail right on its head when she wrote "deplored." What we have done and are doing in Iraq (in the name of what??) is DEPLORABLE. Lori, whose dear friend Nina is shipping out to Iraq on Friday : ( Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 22:49:47 -0600 From: Rob & Tracy Subject: Joni's risk in recording it then and having to deal with it now Catherine said  "How do you know he left her? She might have been the one to end it - or it could have been mutual. You never know." Deb replied  "Okay, this sounds so gossipy, but I recall Joni saying that they broke up on September 11, 2001, and that she broke it off after Donald accused her of repeating herself." Ok, well, since we're on the topic of Mr. Donald, I just wanted to add my gossippy two cents. I don't think I ever said anything before, since she was so in love with him, but now that it's over, let me just say this: the man seems to me like a royal pain in the ass. Now, sure, he could have been really good for our Joan, but I've always found him to be a bit of a prima donna - I've never met him, and so he could be wonderful, but I know some people who do know him or who have had experiences with him, and everyone reports the same thing - he exudes this "I'm better than you" air. Back in 94-95 or so, he was first the writer in residence at the public library here in Prince Albert where I live, and the following year he was the artist in residence at the Arts Center here. Now, keep in mind that this is a town of 40,000 in northern Saskatchewan, so it isn't a cultural capital by any means, but they kept him here for two years, so they must have liked whatever the hell it is that he did. He was also doing his flying into remote towns and workshopping music with kids. Anyway, I've known some teachers who have had him come into their classrooms, and everyone said basically the same thing - arrogant. My wife actually contacted him to come into her classroom at the last minute one time, since her guest cancelled, but I think he was trying to get paid a whole bunch for it, and the school couldn't afford it. Anyway, just from people's accounts, I've never really warmed up to him. Also, my friend is a DJ, and of course during those years there were a million Joni sightings by everyone but me (my brother in law got her autograph for me, my sister stole her wineglass from a restaurant for me, Joni stared at and listened to my other sister's entire conversation in a restaurant another night, etc.), and my friend ran into her and Don at some craft fair or something. Anyway, he was wearing his radio station jacket, and I mean, keep in mind this is northern Saskatchewan where the media is LOCAL in every way. What I mean by this is that they are harmless, respectful, etc. Also, this was an oldies AM station at the time. Well, my friend is like seriously, 130 lbs soaking wet - he's really little. So, he sees them and being the friendly Saskatchewan media fellow he is, he walks over and starts to stick out his hand and says something about "how are you enjoying Prince Albert" or something and Don jumps in front and says something like "she isn't talking to the press" or whatever and just shielded her. I mean, for God sake, this is local yokel stuff. Anyway, that just irked me even more. Also, he always seems crabbier than hell, and I mean, if you don't like the frigging spotlight, and you can't get used to the concept of being Mr. Mitchell, at least in terms of the spotlight, then get the hell out of the kitchen, Donny baby.... Anyway, I might be prejudiced - Klein rules! Ok, enough gossiping, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:06:37 +0100 From: "Wallykai" Subject: Re: :)) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of price.scr] ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #456 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)