From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #451 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 451 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni In Havana [Nuriel Tobias ] RE: njc, ron's parade music -- LOL! ["hell" ] RE: njc, ron's parade music -- LOL! [Catherine McKay ] Five For Fighting' [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Joni mention! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Happy birthday! [Catherine McKay ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Five For Fighting' [Catherine McKay ] Re: New Jonifest dates [] musical influencers njc ["ron old mweb" ] NJC Re: musical influencers njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC musical influencers njc / Baez [Em ] Short note and minor Joni content (njc) ["Kakki" ] re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! [Em ] Re: [Don't Mourn, Organize] NJC PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) [dsk ] Re: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC [dsk ] Re: i voted for bush - njc [dsk ] Re:I voted for Bush. [John Calimee ] Re:I voted for Bush. [mags h ] Re: Five For Fighting' (NJC) [Gary Zack ] re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! [Catherine McKay Subject: Joni In Havana Did you know that the hippest club in Havana these days is called - "Joni's"? Hugs, Nuri Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:15:20 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: njc, ron's parade music -- LOL! Patti wrote: > Oh, dear, forgive me Hell and everyone else! You know I meant no > disrespect > or neglect. What I should have said is that 99.9 percent here > were against > Bush, not that they voted for him. Sorry, I am still reeling from this > week's "catastrophe pour l'Amerique et pour le monde." Don't worry, it was meant with tongue-in-cheek! Although sometimes it does help to point out that the JMDL is spread world-wide, lest you lot get a bit too uppity! Although I'm still not sure 99.9% of the JMDL were against Bush. There are a lot of people who never post, and being a Bush-supporter on this list is not likely to entice anyone to come out of lurkdom! But "chacon a son gout" - I'm not going to pass judgement on someone just because their politics are different from mine, or I'd never speak to my own mother ;o)! But I was serious when I said that we, ie. NZers, have to live with the results. Our government's refusal to join Bush in Iraq has had some impact on trade and diplomatic relations between the two countries, so we are involved whether we like it or not. Our anti-nuclear policies in the 80's caused similar problems - although I'm very glad we held our ground on both counts. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 07:31:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: njc, ron's parade music -- LOL! --- hell wrote: > Although I'm still not sure 99.9% of the JMDL were > against Bush. There are > a lot of people who never post, and being a > Bush-supporter on this list is > not likely to entice anyone to come out of lurkdom! > But "chacon a son > gout" - I'm not going to pass judgement on someone > just because their > politics are different from mine, or I'd never speak > to my own mother ;o)! > > But I was serious when I said that we, ie. NZers, > have to live with the > results. Our government's refusal to join Bush in > Iraq has had some impact > on trade and diplomatic relations between the two > countries, so we are > involved whether we like it or not. Our > anti-nuclear policies in the 80's > caused similar problems - although I'm very glad we > held our ground on both > counts. > Well, Hell, you've always got Canada ;-) We also feel the impact of not joining. It has had repercussions here as well, in trade. Our Prime Minister has chastised one MP, a Liberal like the PM, who has spoken her mind about the outcome of the election. I think what she say represents what most, but certainly not all, Canadians feel about the outcome of this last election. Mostly, we are baffled. The irony is, that our PM is getting bent out of shape about something that most Americans would never hear, because our news is no news south of the border. Here are just the beginning bits of three articles from the Toronto Star in the last few days. MP's anti-Bush remarks `unacceptable': Martin 2004-11-05 01:00:00 [National] OTTAWAPrime Minister Paul Martin was once again forced to distance his government yesterday from the anti-American remarks of a maverick Liberal MP. PM slams anti-U.S. remarks, but Parrish not sorry 2004-11-04 18:11:41 [National] OTTAWA  The prime minister is condemning anti-U.S. comments by outspoken Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish, and the Opposition leader is calling for her head. But Parrish says she stands by what she said and has no regrets. Loose-lipped MP does it again 2004-11-03 18:50:07 [National] OTTAWA  The re-election of a war-mongering president shows Americans are "out of step" with the rest of the world, says a Liberal MP infamous for her blistering attacks on George W. Bush. If you want to read more, there's a url below. It makes more sense to read a bit more for context, but I don't want to bore people with a long article that only a few might want to read. Ultimately it shows that there's a fine line we tread when we live next door to a major world power, and that we have to watch what we say. Not sure if this will work but if it doesn't go to the Star's main page and do a 7-day search (near top and in middle of their home page) on "Parrish". http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar%2FUtilities%2FJavaSearch&searchstring=parrish&Submit2.x=11&Submit2.y=9 ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:39:37 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jonifest dates Sounds good to me! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:18:23 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: running away to Canada This is from today's Boston Globe: "7. The biggest argument against immigrating to Canada is: You're going in the wrong direction! With all due respect to our northern neighbors, anyone who is anyone bolted years ago. Peter Jennings, Mike Myers, Joni Mitchell, Jim Carrey, Frank Gehry (would they take him back?) -- the list goes on and on. Have talent, will travel -- southward. You might want to ask yourself why. So please, think twice. They don't want you, and we would prefer that you stay. If the new administration is a problem, just don't turn on your television for the next four years." I wouldn't have mentioned this story here if there hadn't been Joni content, but you can read the entire article if you want to do so at: << http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2004/11/06/no_canada/ >> - --Smurf, in a blue state in a blue state ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:20:22 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Happy birthday! Joni, if you're reading this, Happy birthday 2004, and many more happy, healthy ones. Thanks again for the music, poetry, visual art and always telling it like it is. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. ... posting a day early so Digest subscribers, such as I, will see it on the actual day. _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:30:00 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Five For Fighting' I watched them on the Today show singing "100 Years To Live", and can't help but think that they were inspired by Joni's "The Circle Game" in writing this song. The message is basicly the same. I bought the CD months ago and really enjoy them. Anyone else agree? Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:36:50 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni mention! I forgot to say that in the Fall "Martha Stewart Living" (no pun on fall) on page 101 they mention singing Joni Mitchell songs around the campfire. Seems Joni growing up singing around campfires might have inspired them. The number or symble for time stoping is 101. Peace, Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:07:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Happy birthday! --- Timothy Spong wrote: > Joni, if you're reading this, > > Happy birthday 2004, and many more happy, healthy > ones. Thanks again for > the music, poetry, visual art and always telling it > like it is. > > Tim Spong > Dover, Del., U.S.A. > > > ... posting a day early so Digest subscribers, > such as I, will see it on > the actual day. > Thanks, Tim, for posting this. I don't pay much attention to birthdays, including my own - no, especially my own! There are so many candles now that the neighbours always call 911. Joan, long may you live! And continue to create in the way that you see best. You've given us so much and yet, like spoiled children, we always cry out for more. I wish you a long life, health and happiness. All the best. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:17:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Five For Fighting' --- MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: > I watched them on the Today show singing "100 > Years To Live", and can't > help but think that they were inspired by Joni's > "The Circle Game" in writing > this song. The message is basicly the same. I bought > the CD months ago and really > enjoy them. > Anyone else agree? > Peace > Mingus Absolutely yes, Ming. I didn't see the show, but I know the song. It is a very touching and beautiful song and I'm so glad you mentioned it here. I have a lot to learn from my kids and first heard "Five for fighting" through them. I don't know if they're Joni fans for not, but doesn't absolutely everyone claim her as an influence? I also love their song "Superman". I just checked out their website and John Ondrasik does claim Pink Floyd as an influence. http://www.fiveforfighting.com/ ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:00:02 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Unpleasant truths NJC We dems never stand behind our candidates. The Republicans do with their candidates no matter what the flaws. That's right. We bitch that they're too liberal or not liberal enough. That they should, with perfect political correctness, kiss the ass of every last interest group, while still appealing to the masses of Joe Six Packs out there. We want them to be secular but spiritual, charismatic but not smarmy. And so on. No wonder we lose. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:02:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Jonifest info - another approach (NJC) --- Lori Fye wrote: > Laurent, here's another idea: > > Rather than have the ongoing conversations go back > and forth on the Joni list > without an NJC tag, how about periodically sending > an invitation to "Jonifest > in France" to the list? Maybe send one each month, > and more often as the event > date nears. > > DO send the invitation without the tag so that > everyone will receive it. But > please try to avoid sending the back and forth > planning discussions to the > list. > > This would also be advisable for "Jonifest the > Cruise." > or, you could start a groups thing. Yahoo groups are easy enough to set up. If I can do it, anyone can. I set up one for my sisters and me, since we would all rather be tortured than to pick up a phone and call anyone. People need a yahoo ID name for this, but not necessarily a yahoo e-mail address. There could be a Euro-Jonifest one and a Jonifest-The Cruise one, or something like that. Just a thought. Full of ideas and full of shite, as usual. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:19:25 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Blue Subject: Happy Birthday May I wish the happiest of birthdays and may all of your dreams come true. As with the others on this list, those still here and those gone away, I humbly take a smiling bow and say Happy Birthday................................ Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:48:54 -0600 From: Subject: Re: New Jonifest dates August 13-15 works much better for me. Mary. > > From: "Laurent Olszer" > Date: 2004/11/05 Fri PM 12:24:08 CST > To: "Kate Bennett" , , > "Jerry Notaro" , , > "Donna Binkley" , > "Jamie Zubairi" , > "Martin Giles" , > "Michael Paz" , > "Gordon Mackie" , > "Chris Marshall" , , > "Emiliano" , > "Lori Fye" , , > "ron old mweb" , > CC: > Subject: New Jonifest dates > > Hi > > The middle of august seems more convenient for some people. > Since we haven't really set the dates officially yet, would you be OK for august 13-15? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:03:43 +0200 From: "ron old mweb" Subject: musical influencers njc hi i was just sitting here tonight having a mini joan fest (the other joan) ive been ripping cds to my harddrive & tonight it was the turn of joan baezs complete a&m recordings - so of course i had to listen. after all the fighting and strife of the recent politics - the music just transported me to another place, laughing & crying as i listened to the wisdom in the teaching of the old familiar songs, and wept at the sorrow in repeating all the old familiar wrongs......... (bush) then i got to thinking - my brother brought "from every stage" into the house & my life nearly 30 years ago - today it can still move me to tears & laughter (no im not bipolar, oh - and no drugs involved :-) if any thing - its got better - at least now i can understand more of what its about, plus theres the nostalgia factor, and joans music has been with me through some strange places and times, ...................... i still sing along - still get the words & the tune wrong - but the music has become a part of who i am, its in me, it shapes & moulds me, has done for so ling, & always will. & this is just one example - i have been fortunate to be influenced by so many people - yet i guess i still keep my own preferences & identity. its amazing that introducing a small thing, like an album, into a persons life can have such a long lasting, deep & profound effect on them, and become such a part of their identity. truly a lasting gift, one of the best which can be given................ often, when im listening to music, i find myself unconsciously saying out loud how much i love it (which can be quite embarassing sometimes). im just so gratefull that i have a love for music, and that it is surely the greatest art form (tho i guess i only feel like that cause its the one which appeals to me, and someone who loves paintings, statues, dance, photography, whatever would surely feel the same about what they love) ron (gushing a little as usual, but just loving the music) np - neil young - staying power (quite appropriate) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 17:28:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: musical influencers njc **im just so gratefull that i have a love for music, Hey - me too, Ron I actually think it's probably the reason I've never gotten a speeding ticket in 31 years of driving - I'm never in a hurry because when I get to where I'm going the music stops. I've also been ripping CD's to my hard drive, and setting up playlists accordingly; Joni, Ani, Tom, Elvis...or just play it all on a shuffle like WBOB radio, just playing the songs I like with NO news, NO commercials, NO annoying DJ's that think they're so clever, etc. Pretty cool. And I can definitely relate to having those "special" records and wondering how your life would be different if you hadn't discovered them. And lastly, speaking of Ms. Baez, I'll always have such fond memories of seeing her in town this year - what a comforting show, I'm so glad I went. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Night By Night" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:50:37 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC musical influencers njc / Baez - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > And lastly, speaking of Ms. Baez, I'll always have such fond > memories of > seeing her in town this year - what a comforting show, I'm so glad I > went. Hi guys, Joan Baez had alot of impact on my life for a couple reasons. I think tracing her career (partly looking back on older stuff) was kind of a musical education of sorts for me, and I bet for many others. Started listening to her in about 1972, when I was like 12 or 13. Who the heck knew what a Child ballad was? Well I was prompted to learn mighty quick-like. Who was Joe Hill? Prompted to learn that too. Sacco and Vanzetti? Learned it. Learned about a guy named Bob Dylan who wrecked his Triumph and had the most amazing blue eyes and curly mane of hair and wrote songs that mowed my brain like a lawn and left it warm and curious. Donovan? whozzat???? listening to Baez, you'd find out. Richard Farina? no prob..got that. What happened on Birmingham Sunday? ok, so now I knew. Baez: an education that was a PLEASURE to get, for a 12 year old kid who otherwise would likely never have gone into that direction. My friends and I otherwise were listening to top 40. But for me, the Baez thing happened at about the same time as FM radio kicked in real good, and soon things were truly chooglin'. I remember an argument back then among heads, who was cooler, Elton John or Leon Russell. Why compare? Piano dudes, of course. yummmmmm........ is she like the most gorgeous woman or what? Anyway.... thanks Ron and Bob for the reminiscing. Joan rocks. Em ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:13:22 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) I have not opened my inbox and read any email from the past month until today. I've lost all emails since 10/18 because the mail box filled up and deleted the subsequent ones and apologize for missing any private email or not responding to same. I wanted to thank those (Kerry supporters and sympathisers) who have written to me privately with very kind messages. I appreciate that you took the time and thought to write and your words comforted me and helped me breathe a little easier. I'm soon off to a wonderful birthday party for our Coyote Rick and a chance to see some old jmdler friends including Jimmy and Ed! Last weekend I was in Venice shopping for a birthday present for Rick and not only spotted what appeared to be Joni's dog (tethered outside without owner ;-) but also had Larry Klein and a friend show up in the booth next to me in a local restaurant! Happy birthday to Rick and to Ms. Joni. Kakki - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:24:34 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! - --- Em wrote: > Hi guys, Joan Baez had alot of impact on my life for a couple > reasons. Hey sorry - I feel like a jerk a bit - talking about Baez on Joni's birthday or birthday eve. Sorry! Have removed the NJC..... Ms. Mitchell! some folks seem to think (or hope) you lurk here..and if so, please accept this toast to your wonderous, lovely, amazing self. Thank you for alllllllllllllll the textures and colors and emotions. The movement, the attitude, the cheek. Bless you! and to quote ol' Neil, may I simply say "long may you RUN!" And Joni, if you are listening....is Turbulent Indigo a waltz??? waitin' for that next waltz... :) love, Em ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:34:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: [Don't Mourn, Organize] NJC PC >'m throwing this out because I know that many of you are more politically savvy than I...isn't the 2-year presidential term limit imposed by the Constitution? Is it possible given that Bush will stack the Supreme Court with conservatives that this amendment gets repealed and by 2008 Bush can be re-elected? Is it possible? Is it likely? My apologies in advance if it's a stupid question, my paranoia-meter is running a little into the red these days.< Not a stupid question bob... I don't know if the term limit is I the constitution but I don't think anything is impossible with this group of hoodlums... looking for glimmers of brightness I did hear that the republican in rhode island (house or senate I don't know) is thinking of defecting from his party.. I think its going to be an interesting couple of years... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 19:07:43 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) Kakki wrote: > > ... I wanted to thank those (Kerry supporters and > sympathisers) who have written to me privately with very kind messages. I > appreciate that you took the time and thought to write and your words > comforted me and helped me breathe a little easier. Sounds like you voted for Kerry. :-) Wow, Joni would be so proud! Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:08:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) >Wow, Joni would be so proud! Um, no she wouldn't but I still love her just the same! Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:09:59 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Short note and minor Joni content (njc) --- Kakki wrote: > Last weekend I was in Venice shopping for a birthday > present for Rick and not > only spotted what appeared to be Joni's dog > (tethered outside without owner > ;-) but also had Larry Klein and a friend show up in > the booth next to me in a > local restaurant! > You passed up the chance to nab Joni's dog? and then claim that you had found it wandering loose, and had the chance to bring her back to Joni's place? What IS the matter with you? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:22:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! --- Em wrote: > > Ms. Mitchell! some folks seem to think (or hope) you > lurk here..and if > so, please accept this toast to your wonderous, > lovely, amazing self. > Thank you for alllllllllllllll the textures and > colors and emotions. > The movement, the attitude, the cheek. > Bless you! and to quote ol' Neil, may I simply say > "long may you RUN!" > And Joni, if you are listening....is Turbulent > Indigo a waltz??? > waitin' for that next waltz... > :) > love, > Em Em, dear Em, no one has taken a stab at answering your "Is Turbulent Indigo a waltz?" question. It does kind of *feel* like a waltz, and yet it also *feels* like 6/8 time to me. Dunno. Don't have the music and ain't really a musician as such. It does have that DA-da-da DA-da-da feel to it, and that feels like waltz. Most waltzes are in 3/4 time. One website I found said waltzes could ONLY be in 3/4 time - but I did find a website that gave a list of styles and one that was included was "jazz waltz in 6/8". So possibly TI is a jazz waltz? (see quite near the bottom of the page at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Marble/9607/0006.htm for this.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:30:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC musical influencers njc / Baez --- Em wrote: > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > And lastly, speaking of Ms. Baez, I'll always > have such fond > > memories of > > seeing her in town this year - what a comforting > show, I'm so glad I > > went. > > Hi guys, Joan Baez had alot of impact on my life for > a couple reasons. > I think tracing her career (partly looking back on > older stuff) was > kind of a musical education of sorts for me, and I > bet for many others. > Started listening to her in about 1972, when I was > like 12 or 13. > Who the heck knew what a Child ballad was? Well I > was prompted to learn > mighty quick-like. Who was Joe Hill? Prompted to > learn that too. Sacco > and Vanzetti? Learned it. > Learned about a guy named Bob Dylan who wrecked his > Triumph and had the > most amazing blue eyes and curly mane of hair and > wrote songs that > mowed my brain like a lawn and left it warm and > curious. > Donovan? whozzat???? listening to Baez, you'd find > out. > Richard Farina? no prob..got that. > What happened on Birmingham Sunday? ok, so now I > knew. > Baez: an education that was a PLEASURE to get, for a > 12 year old kid > who otherwise would likely never have gone into that > direction. > My friends and I otherwise were listening to top 40. > But for me, the Baez thing happened at about the > same time as FM radio > kicked in real good, and soon things were truly > chooglin'. Wow, Em, thanks for that particular memory. I can add a big ME TOO to that. It was certainly through Joan Baez that I first heard about a lot of the same things. I borrowed the Joan Baez songbook from the library and copied out all the songs by hand and learned to play most of them. A few years ago, that book was reprinted and I saw it in the window of the music shop and just had to go in and buy it. And her version of Dylan's "Sad eyed lady of the lowlands" is my favourite. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Early Jonatha on Easytree.org njc Hey music phreaks and geeks! There's a Story torrent just posted at easytree.org - early Jonatha Brooke with Jennifer Kimball from 1991 at Passim in Cambridge, MA November 24, 1991. I'm downloading it now and will put it in my DC++ share on Les' hub when it's done (although I haven't been able to access the hub for a while so am not sure what's going on with that.) http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=13010&viewcomm=111444#comm111444 ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:48:48 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! Hi Catherine! well thanks for the reponse. I guess it makes sense in a way. A rollicking, not quite sober waltz, perhaps. Reminds me of some of the awkwardness when old European "town" brass bands would play..the kind that would play for funerals and all - like in the Sicilian funeral scene of the Godfather. Just not quite "right" somehow, and yet full of forward motion. Like a waltz with a limp or a wooden leg. I feel like it needs to be played on a slightly out of tune mandolin with a squeezebox and a clarinet perhaps by a cross-eyed person who winks at you. Gypsy intruments maybe? A band that coulda blown through Vincent's town way back when. Thanks for playing, Catherine! And thanks for the link, too. :D Em - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > Em, dear Em, no one has taken a stab at answering your > "Is Turbulent Indigo a waltz?" question. It does kind > of *feel* like a waltz, and yet it also *feels* like > 6/8 time to me. Dunno. Don't have the music and ain't > really a musician as such. It does have that DA-da-da > DA-da-da feel to it, and that feels like waltz. > > Most waltzes are in 3/4 time. One website I found said > waltzes could ONLY be in 3/4 time - but I did find a > website that gave a list of styles and one that was > included was "jazz waltz in 6/8". So possibly TI is a > jazz waltz? > > (see quite near the bottom of the page at > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Marble/9607/0006.htm > for this.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:19:33 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC waytoblu wrote: > > I'm neither a conservative or a liberal but I wouldn't agree that everybody who voted for Bush is a born again christian/fundamentalist. I know one person, for example, who voted for Bush but voted against the gay marriage amendment. Yes, it must have been a complicated decision for a Republican to vote for a candidate who does not promote the ideals of the Republican party. That party previously stood for fiscal responsibility, isolationism and getting government off people's back, and the Bushies have done exactly the opposite of that. According to Pat Buchanan, who's a conservative I like even though I don't agree with most of his views, there will be a major fight in the Republican party about who will control it because even some Repubs feel the party's been hijacked by the extreme right wing. He said that before the election, and said there would be such a struggle whether Bush won this election or not. Now that the Repubs are back in because of the support of the evangelicals, they may not bother with such soul-searching. The Bushies and most Republicans on tv are crowing about MANDATE, even though so many people voted against them (considering the way they acted in 2000 when Bush didn't even get in legitimately, it's not a surprise they're acting like Bush is king now). That's fine. They'll overreach and do themselves in all by themselves. I just hope the rest of us manage to stay alive through it. > What alot of this seems to turn into is each side calling the other evil, which in my opinion accomplishes very little except for letting off steam. Yeah, maybe so, or maybe this just isn't the place for it. Talking about politics is talking about being human, about our inner being and what is most important to us and trying to figure out how people manage to live together and our hopes and fears and desires for what satisfies our soul. (A bit overly dramatic maybe; not the first time I've gone there!) So any conversation about all of that is going to be emotional. Such discussions do need to take place, not here necessarily, but to label them all as just blowing off steam and being destructive... that's like trying to force the waters to be smooth and ignoring the chaos below. That relief doesn't last very long. Denying there's any chaos, or that anything needs to be sorted out, just makes the energy eventually spew out destructively. It's like trying to keep steam in a pot. It works for a little while, but if allowed to build with no relief, it eventually blows. > And another thing, Kerry is still a senator. Why doesn't he try to implement one his many plans in the senate. I'm glad Kerry is still a senator. My first thought about him during the primary is that he's a much better Senator (which requires a love of minutiae and ability to compromise) than he would be a president (who needs a big overriding vision and everyone else can work out the details), and that's the way it's played out. Even with his flaws, though, I think Kerry would have been a very good president. I would feel safer with him in office because unlike Bush, who tells everyone he's keeping us safe, Kerry would actually do it by guarding the ports and nuclear facilities and chemical plants and giving money to first responders instead of billionaires, and with Kerry there would be the possibility of greater compassion in this country instead of the meanspiritedness that is going to get worse with the Bushies in charge... but, so it goes. One consequence is that the movement for social and economic justice has just gotten stronger. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:44:38 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: i voted for bush - njc dfrench wrote: > > my mistake for not using the njc in my initial post...apologies to all > concerned. from all the off list emails i received it seems that there are a > lot of people who dont contribute because of the obvious left leaning nature > of those who 'post the most' ........and thanks to all who gave me a tongue > lashing .......and to those who disagreed but understood our differences and > ended with good cheer . and thank you' in NYC' for your restraint in not > calling me stupid, ignorant, easily manipulated and cowardly., you are too > kind , I know! And remarkably charming, too! Oh, and annoying sometimes, too! But never a bitch, no, only men with little wienies call me that! (oops is that being annoying again? :-) Anyway, I like reading your thoughts about who to vote for, why, when, whatever. Yes, it was complicated this time. I didn't think it would be for people because there were such obvious differences between the candidates, and that's not always the case. I was greatly heartened that my old father, who has voted for Republicans in every election (for decades!), voted for Kerry this time because of Iraq, and if my Dad could manage to pull the lever for a Democrat, then I figured there would be millions, billions, zillions of people like him doing the same. Wrong. Dad doesn't go into a church unless there's some family ceremony he has to attend, so he wasn't impressed by all that god-talkin' Bush does, and I didn't factor that in. And my Mom, oh may she be resting in peace, when Bush came out with that "axis of evil" phrase and a belligerent attitude, she in her Southern accent kept saying, "oh, that Bush, why he's just a bully!" She was right on target with that, long before Iraq, and so she, too, another lifelong Republican, would have been pulling the lever for Kerry this time. > macadamia nut cookie and a cup of passion orange guave juice. aloha, dean > french Are you the Mr. French who did a map a long time ago of where all the joni people are? Whatever happened to that? A while after you did that Les, the jonilist mom, put a map on jmdl.com. I don't know if your undertaking inspired his finding the map, or what's happened to it now (and I guess I could go looking for it, but there are other things to do on a Saturday evening). If that's you, welcome back into the fray (and whatever did happen to that map?). I admire your courage for diving right into the churning waters (none of that big toe stuff for you apparently). best regards, Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:53:00 -0600 From: John Calimee Subject: Re:I voted for Bush. > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:49:31 -1000 > From: "dfrench" > Subject: i voted for bush > > i kind of hesitated this post ......i see that most here are in a hateful > state for bush i hope this makes sense ....if the > democrats would have put up a better candidate i would go for that but > kerry/heinz is too much of an asshole for president....sorry Sorry Dfrench, This doesn't make sense. On one hand you 'hesitantly' bring up how uncomfortable it makes you feel, having to read bitter, hateful mail on the JMDL about Bush, then you UNHESITANTLY refer to Kerry as 'too much of an asshole to be president.' It seems the hate spills from both directions, unless you'd care to explain to me how the term 'asshole' is compassionate and loving? Don't condemn others for what you've just done yourself. Certainly, those who have been posting political comments -regardless of position- to the ONLY JONI list have overstepped decorum by doing so. But most people here haven't called them on it because they are sensitive to the hurt these people are enduring with the results of the election. The quiet have been willing to look the other way -for awhile- because they know in short order the bruised nerves and open wounds will eventually heal. The list will again return to all things Joni. Perhaps you might for a moment indulge yourself with a bit of 'wearing the other guy's clothing' and try to understand where the 'hate' is coming from? Since you KNOW you are right... and you've WON what you've wanted, there's hardly any loss on your part to reflect for a moment the position of the other side? Humor me. For you, the election is over and you can go about the business of your life without a single loss or change. Nothing is different and everything is cool. For the gays on the list that is not the case. Their lives HAVE been substantially altered. And what dreams they had for the future almost certainly crushed. While you may see the issue of gay marriage as being as simple as 'man and a woman', the issue runs much deeper for gays and lesbians. For us it runs to the heart of what it means to be a citizen in America, what protections are afforded to EVERYONE under the Constitution, and the ability to pursue life, liberty and happiness. The important, over arching, unresolved question behind the gay marriage issue wasn't about marriage at all. It was an issue of wheither or not being GAY defines one as a 'class' of citizen, or if being gay is simply a lifestyle choice. From the position of the Christian (?) Right, gay is nothing more than a sinful, heinous CHOICE inspired by 'Satan' and contrary to the will of 'god.' From this position it can be argued that in a 'nation under god' no law should support or condone bad, ungodly choices. What Gays argue is that being gay is not a choice, but a biologially determined factor in their make-up, same as everyone else. (Unless you'd care to tell me about the day you 'chose' to be straight. -I'd love to hear about it! Seriously.) If one can be born gay, it would by definition make gays a CLASS of citizen. And under the equal protection clause of the Constitution, any law excluding the rights of a Class has to meet the highest standard possible. Meaning 'just because' isn't good enough. The equal protection clause isn't a liberal thing or conservative thing. It is the Constitution. And all laws should be subject to examination in that light. Using the 'its choice' definition of the President and the Christian Right, gays are not only excluded from the equal protection of the right to marry, they are excluded from ALL protections, save for the small number of Liberal (!!!) minded communities that have included sexual orientation as a protected class. -And you should witness how bitterly the Right fight in those civic battles!!! Presently, having no defined protections under the law, I could go into work monday and my boss could fire me for being gay. He could tell me as much to my face and I would have not a single legal recourse against him. None. Equally, I could be denied housing on the same grounds. Who would I turn to? The President? -When the nation was attacked on Sept. 11, one of the 'outrages' of being ill prepared for terrorism was how few arabic interpretors we had to read the messages being passed back and forth between the terrorists. We had merely 25 people on staff pouring over tons of messages. A situation where one more interpretor may have been the difference between what happened and saving all 3,000 plus lives. In the face of this fact, George Bush allowed 6 of those interpretors to be dismissed because they were GAY!!! As if the people trapped in those towers would have cared if the person that could have saved them were gay or straight. Can you imagine those terrified, frightened people calling down for help and the operator saying, "We're sending fire fighters right now to help you." And those people replying, "OK. But are they straight???" "-Excuse me?" "Are they straight. Because if they aren't straight, I don't want them to come." Or imagine the thousands of husbands and wifes, lovers and friends and family members who lost their loved ones in those buildings. Do you think they would give a rats ass what the sexuality of the person would be if that person could bring back their loved ones? So sure, the President tells us America is not safe. -But it is safe enough for a bit of home grown job discrimination. This is the man I should seek out for help in getting my job back? The man to secure my right to a place to live? The certainty that my mail will be delivered? That a paramedic will take me to a hospital should a crisis arise??? How easy it is for you to feel 'discomforted' by the hateful verbage on this list. You who gets out of bed still married, still working, still capable of making health decisions for your loved ones. Meanwhile, the discomfort for the gay left is far more substantial. You already have yours. Given the type ofjudges Bush is about to appoint, it's unlikely I will see 'mine' in my lifetime. And you wonder why people sound so bitter on this list??? Last point. And an ironic point at that: If you think you're uncomfortable with what people are saying about George here on the list, I doubt you'd feel any more comfort if you were sitting in Joni Mitchell's home. The girl would give you an earful and you wouldn't like a word of it. Peace. My appologies to the Joni Only list. I won't do this, or carry this conversation on the list again. Any other comments can be directed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 20:02:59 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: Re:I voted for Bush. I am on joni only and I am glad you wrote this missive without the NJC. Your post is brave, moving, brilliant, clearly one of the most powerful pieces I have read on this list in the over four years since Ive been here. Send this to the papers, to the press. You raise many, many good and thought provoking points and have given me much to think about. It is my hope that others learn from you too, and let your messages sink in, down deep. Yes, there;s a lot of outrage on this list, a fallout from this past week, and why on earth wouldnt there be. What a turn of events. We've all seen the past four years, which clearly informs the fear of what now, what next. Im afraid to even begin to imagine. I wouldnt call it hatred so much....and if you want to look at hatred, look at what is behind the things that propelled this man back onto his throne. I am shocked to know that things are falling backward. By the way , no need to apologize. While I cannot claim to speak for the others on this side of the fence, fwiw, I wont ever get upset when NJC posts leak through to this space. Life is way too short to moan and bitch about such things. Yes, I am well aware of the purpose of Joni only and it is my right to express myself too. It really is easy to scroll past something that you dont want to read, on or off the JC list. There are bigger things to attend to. Like the next four weeks, months, years. Be strong, and keep your head up. Be the change you want to see in your country and in the world. Dont give up. Mags, in admiration - ----- what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? - ----- Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:32:36 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Five For Fighting' (NJC) Hi Mingus, Had to respond - I don't have any of Five For Fighting's music yet, and don't know a thing about them, but I really, really, like the song that they did called "Superman." The guy who sings lead vocal on the song has a great voice. Will definitely plan to pick up some of their music soon, especially now that you have recommended them. Best regards, Gary MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: > I watched them on the Today show singing "100 Years To Live", and can't >help but think that they were inspired by Joni's "The Circle Game" in writing >this song. The message is basicly the same. I bought the CD months ago and really >enjoy them. >Anyone else agree? >Peace >Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:44:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: re: musical influencers / Baez/ JONI birthday!! --- Em wrote: > Hi Catherine! > well thanks for the reponse. I guess it makes sense > in a way. > A rollicking, not quite sober waltz, perhaps. > Reminds me of some of the awkwardness when old > European "town" brass > bands would play..the kind that would play for > funerals and all - like > in the Sicilian funeral scene of the Godfather. Just > not quite "right" > somehow, and yet full of forward motion. Like a > waltz with a limp or a > wooden leg. > I feel like it needs to be played on a slightly out > of tune mandolin > with a squeezebox and a clarinet perhaps by a > cross-eyed person who > winks at you. Gypsy intruments maybe? > A band that coulda blown through Vincent's town way > back when. Beautiful! That's it exactly! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 02:08:29 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Five For Fighting' Thanks Cathrine, I took your advice and went straight to their web site. I wrote John and already got a reply: He seems to hold high regards for Joni. Subj: Great Job on the Today show! Date: 11/6/04 12:56:12 PM Eastern Standard Time From: MINGSDANCE To: Fiveforfriends Really great job on the show today. I have been a big fan and play your music daily. Just wondering if Joni Mitchell's music is an influence on "100 Years to live," It has a similar message as " The Circle Game" Hope you come to Florida soon I would give anything to attend your concert. Take care, David Mingus Subj: Re: Great Job on the Today show! Date: 11/7/04 12:18:53 AM Eastern Standard Time From: Fiveforfriends To: MINGSDANCE thank you...yes, i was played circle game after i cut 100 years...similar sentiment...of course joni said it much better than i ever could of... best j ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 02:53:06 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthday Joni! "Happy Birthday Joni" I took the liberties and added a verse just for you. Seeing life from both sides now your life has mended Little Green's offspring are dancing just for you life has now become a horn of plenty As all these accolades and honors coming through And these dreams for you are coming true So drag your feet now let "s just see what"s coming new And the seasons they go round and round And the painted ponies go up and downWe're captive on the carousel of time We can't return, we can only look behind From where we came And go round and round and round In your circle game Love, Mingus ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #451 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)