From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #449 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 449 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- consolation NJC [kate@katebennett.com] Re: Bush - NJC [hell ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise ["Sherelle Smith" ] RE: BUSH again: I blame the gays (NJC) [] Re: if the flip-flop fits ... (njc) [Smurfycopy@aol.com] inspiring patriotic election music njc ["ron old mweb" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Willy the Shake! njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] NJC Single Canadians, now's the chance to hook up! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Perfect Circle's "Fiddle And The Drum" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Jonifest dates and details ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Willy the Shake! njc [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: USA only: SAVE THE COUNTRY!! njc [] Re: [Fwd: Don't Mourn, Organize] NJC PC [Deb Messling ] Re: NJC Single Canadians, now's the chance to hook up! [Catherine McKay <] Ashcroft resigning? [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Hi ["Wallykai" ] Re: Hello ["FredNow" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:18:02 -0800 (PST) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: consolation NJC heard on my way to work that ashcroft will be resigning ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:06:26 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Re: Bush - NJC David wrote: > I believe he was re-elected because of the Christian fundamentalist > cohort in our population, a bloc seemingly underestimated by those > of us who hoped a large turnout would produce a Kerry victory. I agree with you, and personally, based on comments I've read here, and news reports over the past few months, IMO another big factor was the fact that people were voting AGAINST Bush, rather than FOR Kerry. Had Kerry been a little more charismatic and inspired a few more people to get off their behinds, the result may have been a little different. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2008, with two new candidates (one of whom may just be Hillary....) - that's assuming there's a population left to vote, since everyone seems to want to run off to Canada or Europe (and NZ is nice, too)! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:06:49 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise Hi Paz, I echo Donna's sentiment and I am also sorry to hear about your brother. I wish you a safe journey to Detroit and prayers of strength for you and your family. Love, Sherelle Donna wrote: Paz, I'm sorry to hear about your brother, I'll keep him in my prayers, love db _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:07:12 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: A view from afar njc "Azeem" wrote: >>What a lot of people here (ie the UK) are wondering is how the democrats >>started off with some highly charismatic potential nominees (Dean, Edwards, >>Clark) and ended up with Kerry, who for all his virtues never seemed likely >>to fire the imagination in the same way. I remember thinking at the time that >>it seemed an odd choice. There was nothing inherently wrong with Kerry. I think Clark may have made a better VP choice (although I think the outcome probably would have been the same; Edwards may have been just too boyish to seem "presidential" to the more superficial voters, plus he's an "evil tort lawyer." Dean was more dynamic, but also more left wing, and the overwhelming message of this election is "Toto, I think we're all in Kansas now." I suggest you read "What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America" by Thomas Frank. We have to come to terms with the fact that this is the country we're living in: an ignorant, fearful, imperialist theocracy. They didn't steal this election, there are just more of them than us ... it's civil war. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:12:30 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Joni mention on Oprah Hey Julia Roberts is on Oprah, pregnant with twins and she is "playing Joni Mitchell and Dave Matthews to the kids to get them started." Sweet, eh? Mona A. Fitzgerald Windsor, CT USA monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:27:53 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: I will jump in first (NJC) Sherelle writes: > I'm sorry that I don't know all the words, but I am singing the lyrics to > Joni's song, "The Circle Game" and somehow, it's very comforting right > now.... > What a terrific post, Sherelle. You and I seem to be thinking alike in many ways in the aftermath of this debacle. I thought of a different Joni song, though: "The Tea Leaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms)". Here's the part that's been on my mind for the past day or so: "Sleep, little darlin' This is your happy home Hiroshima cannot be pardoned Don't have kids when you get grown Because this world is shattered The wise are mourning The fools are joking Oh, what does it matter? The wash needs ironing And the fire needs stoking" - --Smurf b blue and in a blue state, but not depressed, damn it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:40:41 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: I will jump in first (NJC) Wow!!!! That is a powerful song! This one of those Joni songs that I don't know unfortunately (saying that feels like sacrilege!) and I am awestruck by the lyrics! Wow! Thanktyou for sharing them! Love, Sherelle >From: Smurfycopy@aol.com >To: sherellesmith@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: I will jump in first (NJC) >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:27:53 EST > >Sherelle writes: > > > > I'm sorry that I don't know all the words, but I am singing the lyrics >to > > Joni's song, "The Circle Game" and somehow, it's very comforting right > > now.... > > > >What a terrific post, Sherelle. You and I seem to be thinking alike in many >ways in the aftermath of this debacle. I thought of a different Joni song, >though: "The Tea Leaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms)". Here's the part >that's been >on my mind for the past day or so: > >"Sleep, little darlin' >This is your happy home >Hiroshima cannot be pardoned >Don't have kids when you get grown >Because this world is shattered >The wise are mourning >The fools are joking >Oh, what does it matter? >The wash needs ironing >And the fire needs stoking" > >--Smurf b blue and in a blue state, but not depressed, damn it! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:06:04 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Kerry/Heinz NJC PC In the meantime, I'll try my best to > avoid calling you stupid, ignorant, easily manipulated, and cowardly, > but it won't be easy. And to any wounded-by-that Bush supporter... you > think my attitude is hateful? At least I'm giving reasons for why I feel as I do (as opposed, for > example, to a Bush voter who's reasoning was: "kerry/heinz is too much > of an asshole for president" > Your side has learned that name-calling, insulting, lying and keeping it > all very simple works wonders for you. I agree with the kerry/heinz post...they didn't call anyone names (except for Kerry and since when are people not allowed to call politicians names...people call Bush all sorts of things here-in any case, how is that a personal affront towards anyone on this list)...they were very polite and simply asking why there cannot be a more civil exchange of ideas and beliefs. Just because someone voted for Bush does not make them the antichrist. Did you ask them for any reasons why they feel that why.......no.....just a couple of paragraphs of venting and namecalling. We're starting to get some beautiful fall weather and I plan to spend more time enjoying it and less time reading the jmdl. I agree that it's lost alot of the luster that it once had. Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:22:51 -0600 From: Subject: RE: BUSH again: I blame the gays (NJC) Brian wrote, in response to Robin: "- --- robin mortlock wrote: > I dont live in America but from all the anti-Bush feeling flying around > why has he got in again? Answers in under 25 words! Because Kerry's positions on almost every issue changed with the political winds and made him look like the weak-willed flip-flopper Bush said he was. Brian in NJ" That's funny: I thought that at least some of Kerry's positions changed because: 1) the surrounding circumstances in question changed, and 2) the issues at hand were complex and shifting. No doubt political considerations did enter into some of Kerry's decisions on which positions to take. He's a POLITICIAN, for Christ's sake!! But the Republicans bit into the mantra of "flip-flopper. . .poll-taker" with the enthusiasm of Dobermans and never, ever let go. Like most sound bites, this one had some genesis in reality, and a lot more in the four walls of the campaign headquarters' War Room. As for me: it's been said here before, and maybe even by yours truly, but give me someone who honestly assesses a situation and changes his or her mind over someone who jumps to a conclusion based on faith, not facts--and then hangs on for the ride for dear life--any day. Mary, disgusted, on 11/4/04. P.S. Robin, in another post, you asked why this situation was called a "war." To what were you referring? You said you're not in the U.S. Where are you located? And, whatever you meant (I'm guessing, Iraq, and/or the "war or terror"), what what *you* call it? I'm genuinely curious. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:40:36 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: if the flip-flop fits ... (njc) Kate writes: > & then we can build a big > fence along the eastern boarder of the west coast states & succeed from the > union... red states can live happily ever after in their own little world & > so can we... > > Better yet, let's bomb the shit out of the motherfuckers! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:44:52 +0200 From: "ron old mweb" Subject: inspiring patriotic election music njc hi well - i tried - but this is the most inspiring i could come up with: (intro - military march band style drums) its an asshole celebration and theyre all out on the street see them on the sidewalk hear them shuffling feet theres twenny thousand assholes doin asshole promenade step aside good people theres the assholess on parade we got the assholes for freedom the assholes for fun the assholes for jesus the assholes for guns assholes for justice assholes for crime assholes for assholes assholes for all time we got assholes making money they making all the rules taking all our jobs filling up our schools assholes on the water assholes in the sjy sign that says help wanted, only assholes need apply oh teacher wont you tell me have i really made the grade ami head of my class or am i just another asshole on parade assholes give the orders, and assholes row the boat assholes get elected cause assholes get to vote i once heard it said that old assholes never die they just lay in bed and multiply assholes in the morning assholes every night assholes to the left and assholes to the right theres twenty thousand assholes doin asshole promenade step aside good people theres the assholes on parade assholes on parade - timbuk 3 ron np - peter gabriel - games without frontiers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:03:10 EST From: TV118@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #448 I'm a lurker from Albany, NY. I haven't read in a while. I'm surprised by all the politics. Wow. We are a divided country. No one can listen to the other side anymore. Sounds like everybody thinks everybody on the other side is an asshole. Oh well. I'm disappointed with the election outcome too. I know full well though I can't get anyone on the other side to "get it". Americans thrive on hate, winning and losing, black and white. Gray areas are not our forte huh? Anyway, I just read an article that was in the Washington Post October 6, 2004 - an interview with Joni. I feel so bad for how bitter Joni has become over the years. I understand her reasoning. I have every album, but even when I was 16 in 1976/7 with Hejeira, I understood how non-mainstream her music was. In her Joni Mitchell tribute, one of her admirers praised her "not listening to her fans or anyone else". Well sadly, thats going to come back to haunt you. I mean if you don't give a rat's ass about your fans and the music they've grown to love, how can Joni possibly expect people to continue buying her albums. Joni seems to "protest too much" in this last article. She says "They said my albums weren't as good as the past, so I said you're right and quit." That statement sounds more like its coming from a 5 year old child than a 60 year old amazing artist. She obviously cares plenty well about the amount of sales and who is listening. If thats the case, I wish she had been more concerned about the amount of sales and who is listening while she was making her albums. It harks of me complaining I'm lonely and have no friends after I've told 5 potential friends there not good enough for me. I will always adore her, but Joni's bitter attitude, and her criticism of nearly everyone else in the music industry, these last few years leaves much to be desired. Geez on the 1998 album, it seems like she was daring fans not to like her with that horrible scratching sound on one of the songs. I mean really, give me a break. I'm going to listen to Paprika Plains now. cheers everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:41:07 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Willy the Shake! njc > It seems that for almost every event in our lives there is another > quotation of timeless wisdom from Shakespeare. > > "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the > citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a > double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the > mind...And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the > blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no > need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, > infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of > their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know? For this > is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -William Shakespeare > > Peace Migus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:06:47 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Willy the Shake! njc Mingus wrote: >> It seems that for almost every event in our lives there is another >> quotation of timeless wisdom from Shakespeare. >> >> "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the >> citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a >> double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the >> mind...And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the >> blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no >> need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, >> infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of >> their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know? For this >> is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -William Shakespeare Here's another quote that seems particularly relevant right now: "It is not an overstatement to say... that the destiny of the human race depends on what is going on in America today. This is a staggering reality to the rest of the world; they must feel like passengers on a supersonic jet liner who are forced to watch helplessly while a passell of drunks, hypes, freaks, and madmen fight for the controls and the pilot's seat". - Eldridge Cleaver, Soul on Ice 1968 Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:09:57 EST From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Willy the Shake! njc Great catch, Hell. Love it. I read that book in high school -- when it was a bestseller! Have never looked at it again. Might make interesting reading nowadays. Hope all is well. Please marry me and give me a home far from here. XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:10:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Single Canadians, now's the chance to hook up! Catherine, if you're looking for a new hottie, check it out - lots of Americans wanting to get the hell out: _http://www.marryanamerican.ca/_ (http://www.marryanamerican.ca/) Bob NP: Joni, "Furry Sings The Blues" (like so many of us) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:30:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Perfect Circle's "Fiddle And The Drum" A timely Joni cover - and intentionally so. Done acapella, but with about 3 & 4 part harmony...very cool and unique, the harmonies remind me of Beach Boys/CSN kinda stuff. I'm happy to send a .wma file to anyone who wants to hear it. (Most yahoo/hotmail accounts won't accept these, 2.86 mb, but I'm willing to try for you guys. (Jenny Goodspeed - I thought of you and your love of harmony when I first it) Bob NP: Elliott Smith, "Twilight" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:50:54 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jonifest dates and details ! And I love the France idea but it > is > still to under developed (dates and details wise) for me to commit to > at > this point. Paz Hi Michael, Sorry to hear about your brother. Regarding the dates, I submitted august 6-8 and so far I've got commitments from: Kate Bennett, Jerry Notaro, Emiliano, Stryngs, Martin Giles, Ron ("Flopit"), Ashara; Lieve Reckers, Lori Fye, Gordon Mackie and I must be forgetting a couple. So it looks like it's going to be, doesn't it? I also posted various lodging rates, which I'll be happy to book for everyone . The only specifics are the food rates on the premises, but that won't be much. What more details might you need? You'll all get some maps in due time. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:56:35 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Willy the Shake! njc Hey Hell, Can we all move over there with you? Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:16:05 +0000 From: Subject: Re: USA only: SAVE THE COUNTRY!! njc > I think that proves that the JMDL is overwhelmingly not representative of "Main Street America". > > But if we recall the book Main Street by Sinclair Lewis, that is not a bad thing... but then again, it depends on what state - we are much closer to main Street Vermont than Main Street Utah. I am kind of proud that in one of my last acts as chairperson of the Montcalm County (Michigan) Democratic Party, we held Bush to only 55% of the county vote. For rural western Michigan, that is very good! I am moving soon to Muskegon, also western Michigan, and my new home will be in the midst of downtown, very urban. My new precinct voted 80% Kerry. So it all depends on where your Main Street is! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:01:24 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: [Fwd: Don't Mourn, Organize] NJC PC I don't know what's more upsetting - the thought that the election might have been stolen, or the thought that the election was legitimately won by the intolerant religious right. Both scenarios make me feel so helpless. A cynical charade of an election, or genuine majority-rule, except the majority are bigots and fools. This is not the America I was taught to believe in. As a secularist and a liberal, I scarcely feel welcome in this country anymore. At 02:20 PM 11/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I don't trust the Bushies and so I don't trust the election results even >though the mainstream media (and most Democrats) are not questioning the >results at all. I am. I don't think it's by accident that for the second >national election in a row the exit polls did not match the actual >results. Such polls are considered a guideline, but they were not so >completely wrong in pre-2000 elections. I doubt that pollsters have any >interest in being so inaccurate. If anything their techniques would have >improved. Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:06:26 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Terrific new book about a really bad election NJC Speaking of horrifying election results, fiction readers may want to pick up the new Philip Roth novel, The Plot Against America. The premise is that Charles Lindbergh defeats FDR for the presidency, immediately buddies up with Nazi Germany and institutes programs to assimilate Jews into what every normal person would call "REAL America." It's told from the point of view of a little boy. Aside from the political stuff (and Roth swears it's not an allegory for the present, though it sure feels like it is), it is a beautifully drawn portrait of a family torn apart by these bewildering outside forces. I wolfed this book down; it was riveting. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:36:14 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #448 --- TV118@aol.com wrote: > I'm a lurker from Albany, NY. [...] > I feel so bad for how bitter Joni has become over > the years. I understand > her reasoning. I have every album, but even when I > was 16 in 1976/7 with > Hejeira, I understood how non-mainstream her music > was. In her Joni Mitchell > tribute, one of her admirers praised her "not > listening to her fans or anyone else". > > > Well sadly, thats going to come back to haunt you. > I mean if you don't give > a rat's ass about your fans and the music they've > grown to love, how can Joni > possibly expect people to continue buying her > albums. > > Joni seems to "protest too much" in this last > article. She says "They said > my albums weren't as good as the past, so I said > you're right and quit." > > That statement sounds more like its coming from a 5 > year old child than a 60 > year old amazing artist. > Nice to hear a new voice. Yeah, Joni can come across as bitter and spoiled brattish but then again, the people who write these articles or who quote her here and there are only pulling out the parts they think will sell papers. It's that whole sound-bite thing - keep it short, keep it snappy, make 'em prick up their ears and listen, so the hell with context. When you hear Joni's speaking voice, and you hear her saying these things, as opposed to reading them somewhere, it doesn't sound as harsh, and she intersperses her music-industry-as-cesspool speeches with jokes and anecdotes, so she's probably not as bitter as she comes across. Still, she says these things often enough that it's a bit like a broken record, although I'd take a broken record from Joni Mitchell over a sparkly CD from Britney any day. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:40:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Single Canadians, now's the chance to hook up! --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine, if you're looking for a new hottie, > check it out - lots of > Americans wanting to get the hell out: > > _http://www.marryanamerican.ca/_ > (http://www.marryanamerican.ca/) > Hey, Bob, I'll keep this in mind if I ever make the mistake of, um, decide to bind-and-tie myself up with someone again. I wouldn't suggest anyone hold their breath though - we already have one Smurph on the list, and a whole lotta blue people. Funny thing - your liberals are blue and your conservatives are red? In Canada, it's the other way around. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:06:51 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Ashcroft resigning? Our new Chief Justice! LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:08:13 +0100 From: "Wallykai" Subject: Re: Hi :) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Price.exe] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:08:37 +0100 From: "FredNow" Subject: Re: Hello :)) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of price.exe] ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #449 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)