From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #422 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 15 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 422 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Open post to a blocked writer (The Sentimental Version) [Nuriel Tobia] Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Wing - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc [Jerry Notaro ] Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Aging and Drag Queens [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc [Em ] RE: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc [Em ] Re: NJC, JMDL Cabinet ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Aging and Drag Queens [Em ] Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc [colin ] Can John Kerry Cure Cancer? (PC & NJC really, but a JM reference) [Lori F] Re: Aging and Drag Queens - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc PC [colin Subject: Re: Open post to a blocked writer (The Sentimental Version) Jim wrote: Keep the faith, Joni. The writing will come around when it's ready. A very wise woman once wrote: "Revoked but not yet cancelled The gift goes on In silence In a bell jar... Still a song." All the best, Jim If i may, i'd also like to dedicate a lyric to Joni. Against All Odds - By Phil Collins How can I just let you walk away, just let you leave without a trace When I stand here taking every breath with you... Youre the only one who really knew me at all How can you just walk away from me, When all I can do is watch you leave Cos weve shared the laughter and the pain and even shared the tears Youre the only one who really knew me at all So take a look at me now, oh theres just an empty space And theres nothing left here to remind me, Just the memory of your face Take a look at me now, well theres just an empty space And you coming back to me is against all odds and thats what Ive got to face I wish I could just make you turn around, Turn around and see me cry Theres so much I need to say to you, So many reasons why Youre the only one who really knew me at all So take a look at me now, well theres just an empty space And theres nothing left here to remind me, just the memory of your face Please take a look at me now, cos theres just an empty space But to wait for you, is all I can do and thats what Ive got to face Take a good look at me now, cos Ill still be standing here And you coming back to me is against all odds Its the chance Ive gotta take Nuriel vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:07:03 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc if it looks like slime smells like. . . . . . Help me out here, I was absent from the tele at the last debate just when Kerry made his comment about Cheney's lesbian daughter. Does anyone have the transcript/quote as to what he actually said? From what I heard about it, I am thinking that it was unacceptable. What the the intention? What was he hoping to accomplish in making this statement? I support Kerry in this election, and he continues to impress me far beyond the bozos in charge. . (and I will of couse vote for Kerry/Edwards) However . . I want to look at EVERTHING at face value. . and I am thinking that this statement was (as perhaps was John Edwards, re: Cheney's daughter) in someway an attempt to *out her to the American public more so (not that she wasn't already out). . .. or at least bring some negativity to the Bush/Cheney campaign as a result of mentioning this. What was the objective here? There is something that I do not trust about this. . . smells like slime to me. What's did you feel about this? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:24:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC NJC Marianne, the question was simply whether homosexuality was a choice. Bush of course evaded a direct answer. Kerry said in no uncertain terms that homosexuality was NOT a "choice". Here's what was actually said: SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here. Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice? BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that. And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live. And that's to be honored. But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman. I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution. It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution. I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman. But I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests. SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry? KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them. I think we have to respect that. The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people. You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth. Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:11:19 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: My Jonipages > From: "Jim" > Since you knew Joni in the coffee house days, I want to be sure to cover this > with you: Did you get the very early video of Joni that Bob Muller brought to > JoniFest in 2003? I think it was called "Let's Sing Out". In the first > appearance she's billed as "Joni Anderson", and she looks very naive. A year > later she looks a bit distant and is "Joni Mitchell Yes that reminds me of the difference between men & women: Women marry men hoping to make them change and they don't. Men marry women hoping they won't change and they do. I think this also explains why Joni may not be interested in romantic love at this stage in her life. PS: contact me privately about that Joni video, I'd love to see that Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:35:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wing - NJC **"Warning - content may offend some viewers...." Consider me offended! :~) This was deliciously awful, Hell...thanks for sharing. Bob NP: Anything but Wing! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:51:08 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc > if it looks like slime > smells like. . . . . . > > > Help me out here, > > I was absent from the tele at the last debate just when Kerry made his > comment about Cheney's lesbian daughter. > I am as sensitive to these issues as anyone, but don't think Mrs. Cheney isn't playing politics. She had a novel that she had written stopped from being reissued last April because of its lesbian theme. New American Library, an imprint of Penguin Group (USA), was going to reprint "Sisters," a historical romance published in 1981 that includes brothels, attempted rapes and a lesbian love affair. It contains the following: "Let us go away together, away from the anger and imperatives of men. There will be only the two of us, and we shall linger through long afternoons of sweet retirement. In the evenings I shall read to you while you work your cross-stitch in the firelight. And then we shall go to bed, our bed, my dearest girl." The title is nowhere mentioned in any of Mrs. Cheney's White House biographies. When questioned as to why, in an election year, she would object to this one title being reissued she told a New York Times reporter that she couldn't even remember the plot. Yeah, right. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:03:56 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: NJC Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC NJC Let's not forget Cheney's response when Edwards brought up his daughter: "CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much." I don't see why Cheney should thank Edwards and then have Lynne turn around and call an equally benign mention by Kerry "slimy." Mary Cheney has been out for a long time, She's even working for Dad. While it may not have been wise for Kerry to bring it up in the debate, it's hardly sleazy politics. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:07:20 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc If I had written dialogue this bad, I sure wouldn't want it republished. ____________________________________________________________________________ Jerry Notaro quoted Lynne Cheney: "Let us go away together, away from the anger and imperatives of men. There will be only the two of us, and we shall linger through long afternoons of sweet retirement. In the evenings I shall read to you while you work your cross-stitch in the firelight. And then we shall go to bed, our bed, my dearest girl." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:37:04 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Aging > ... joni is aging gracefully &looks her age & dolly just doesn't... > > well, as Dolly says, "It takes a lot of work to look this cheap." > She also said that if she wouldn't have been born a women, she would have been a drag queen! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:03:01 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Regardless of Cheney's response to John Edwards. . . The references to Mary Cheney's lesbianism feels TO ME to have been said to diminish Bush and Cheney. I do not interpret this statement as benign. And I do not respect it. Marianne >KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to >Dick Cheney's daughter, >who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's >being who she was, she's being who she was born as. And one more thing. . . why would Kerry choose to talk about "someone" who he doesn't know all that well, as opposed to a lesbian or gay man that he knows. a spade is a spade - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Richard Flynn" To: , , Subject: RE: NJC Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC NJC Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:03:56 -0400 Let's not forget Cheney's response when Edwards brought up his daughter: "CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much." I don't see why Cheney should thank Edwards and then have Lynne turn around and call an equally benign mention by Kerry "slimy." Mary Cheney has been out for a long time, She's even working for Dad. While it may not have been wise for Kerry to bring it up in the debate, it's hardly sleazy politics. _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:11:19 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Granted, I thought it was a misstep & it made me somewhat uncomfortable. But the Cheneys' reaction makes it seem they're ashamed of their daughter. Here's a opinion piece from today's Salon.com: John Kerry's lesbian moment Dick and Lynne Cheney screamed foul when the Democratic candidate mentioned their gay daughter. But for gays and lesbians, what is most outrageous is the Cheneys' outrage. - - - - - - - - - - - - - By Dave Cullen Oct. 15, 2004 | America's most notorious lesbian is back. In the final presidential debate, John Kerry responded to a gay-rights question with a reference to Vice President Dick Cheney's gay daughter. The vice president's wife, Lynne Cheney, immediately went ballistic, condemning Kerry in her most moralistic tones as "not a good man" for the "cheap and tawdry political trick." By Thursday morning, it was all over the news networks, with the vice president also impugning Kerry's character and describing himself as "a pretty angry father." CNN's Wolf Blitzer gravely speculated that the controversy could dominate the entire post-debate landscape. Well, yeah, if the Cheneys -- supposedly outraged by the violation of their daughter's privacy -- get their way and keep the issue burning brightly in the public eye. How incredibly sad for Mary Cheney, the lesbian in question. And not for the reasons that her parents and the pundits have been screaming about. First, let's dispense with the comic aspects of the parental indignation: Mary Cheney has been happily out of the closet for at least a decade, so John Kerry was hardly dragging her out against her will. She spent the late '90s working as a veritable professional lesbian, as gay and lesbian corporate relations manager for Coors Brewing Co. Dick Cheney himself has been using her sexuality on the campaign trail. Click here to watch a Human Rights Campaign ad with him on the stump on Aug. 24, 2004: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter ... " The Bush-Cheney administration has shamelessly used homosexuality as a wedge issue, never hesitating to play the sodomite card when it serves their political ends. John Edwards brought up Mary Cheney in response to a similar gay-rights question just eight days earlier in the veep debate. Dick Cheney responded by thanking him for his kind remarks. Maybe Dick's indignation began later that night watching "The Daily Show." Jon Stewart poked fun at Edwards for opportunistically screaming GAY DAUGHTER! GAY DAUGHTER! to any homophobe out there who still hadn't heard about it. It didn't go much further, but twice in one week was apparently too much -- for the Cheneys and for the media. The conservative cable clones began piling on. Even some liberals have been squeamish about the Democrats invoking Mary's lesbianism so shamelessly. But they just don't get it. Much of the gay population is incensed. At the media. Let's get one thing straight. It is not an insult to call a proudly public lesbian a lesbian. It's an insult to gasp when someone calls her a lesbian. That's how all the gays I have spoken to the past 24 hours perceived the press response. You're embarrassed for us. And it's infuriating. Consider the way a paraplegic or a blind person feels when you act just a little too sympathetic about their "plight." We don't want your pity! Can you see how insulting it is? The only thing offensive about Kerry's statement to us gay people was that he had to pause mid-sentence and gulp and sputter the terrifying word out: "Dick Cheney's daughter, who is ... a lesbian ..." It's not a dirty word, John. And why is the press reacting like he exposed a breast? The most outlandish exchange I've seen came in a scholarly Fox News debate Thursday -- seriously, it happens -- over the candidates' linguistic styles, of all things. The conservative guy, Eric Dezenhall, charged that "the invocation of Vice President Cheney's daughter's lesbianism was sort of a radioactive concept. The words lesbian in a presidential debate -- even if you don't mean it to be mean -- came across as off the grid, and very, very shrill." Is he serious? If it's innocent little gay people you think you're protecting here, listen up! Gay people do not consider the invocation of our existence radioactive. It's the comparisons to plutonium that drive us nuts. We are not toxic. A gay reader e-mailed to lament that, "I've heard my own mom say that she wished there was a 'nicer' word" than "lesbian." At least he didn't have Lynne Cheney for a mom. Her response was truly deplorable. If Mary Cheney is distraught this morning, it's likely her mother is the cause. And it's perplexing to millions of gay Americans today why the press has not grasped how horrible she acted toward Mary Wednesday night. Maybe it's understandable. Most of you out there have never been a homo. Let me share a personal story to illustrate how this works for a gay person. I came out to my parents when I was in my 30s -- they were shocked, then understanding, but also a little queasy about it. The queasiness was much less about them accepting me as it was their friends accepting them. That's the part that stings. No matter how old you get. Once you're happily out of the closet a few years, you don't bat an eye at someone hearing you're gay. Even on national television. Even if your father's the vice president. (Especially if your father's the vice president - -- don't you think she's used to it by now?) What rips your heart out is when someone close to you denies your sexuality in public. Or shudders at the mention of it, so you can see how desperately they want to. It may sound like a subtle implication to a straight person -- clearly it does; even the most liberal straight pundits appear oblivious to it -- but a gay person hears it scream out loud and clear. You people still feel there's something to be ashamed of here. One of the happiest days of my life came when one of the old ladies at my mom's Catholic bridge club mentioned what a nice young husband I'd make. My mother, in her 60s by then, laughed it off. "I don't think that's going to happen," she said. "He's gay." - -----Original Message----- From: Marianne Rizzo [mailto:treegreen1@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:03 AM To: rflynn@frontiernet.net; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Regardless of Cheney's response to John Edwards. . . The references to Mary Cheney's lesbianism feels TO ME to have been said to diminish Bush and Cheney. I do not interpret this statement as benign. And I do not respect it. Marianne >KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to >Dick Cheney's daughter, >who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's >being who she was, she's being who she was born as. And one more thing. . . why would Kerry choose to talk about "someone" who he doesn't know all that well, as opposed to a lesbian or gay man that he knows. a spade is a spade - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Richard Flynn" To: , , Subject: RE: NJC Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC NJC Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:03:56 -0400 Let's not forget Cheney's response when Edwards brought up his daughter: "CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much." I don't see why Cheney should thank Edwards and then have Lynne turn around and call an equally benign mention by Kerry "slimy." Mary Cheney has been out for a long time, She's even working for Dad. While it may not have been wise for Kerry to bring it up in the debate, it's hardly sleazy politics. _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:16:30 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Dr. Joni Mitchell Hi, dears! Is this true? (apart from Patti's JMDL University, of course!) ><><><><>< Joni Mitchell is getting an honorary doctorate! Check it out: McGill Dean of Music Dan McClean announced that the Faculty of Music will honour retired singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell with an honorary doctorate on October 27, as part of the Faculty9s 100th anniversary celebration. (from www.mcgilldaily.com) ><><><><>< Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Javier Ruibal: Rosa de Alejandria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Aging and Drag Queens Jerry Notaro wrote: > ... joni is aging gracefully &looks her age & dolly just doesn't... > > well, as Dolly says, "It takes a lot of work to look this cheap." > "She also said that if she wouldn't have been born a women, she would have been a drag queen!" One of my best friends had his mind fixed for years over the idea that Joni IS a drag queen! At the begining i thought he's was joking or something, but as time went by, and he kept insisting that Joni IS a drag queen, i realised the he realy meant what he was saying and that he truely had no doubt that Joni IS indeed a drag queen! It was only when Joni found her daughter that his stupidity ended. (This is a true story - honest!) Nuriel Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Hi Marianne, I guess I don't mind the diminution of Bush and Cheney. In fact I'd like to see them diminshed right on out of town. I do though, have a problem with Kerry pulling this 3rd party, (Cheney's daughter) into it. Like what if she didn't *want* to be outted yet another time? I mean, it's one thing to be out, and one's lifestyle be a generally "known" thing. But its quite another to have it used as the "mouse" batted around between 2 aggresive cats. I think it may backfire on Kerry. Or, already has. A shame, I think. Em - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Regardless of Cheney's response to John Edwards. . . The references > to Mary > Cheney's lesbianism feels TO ME to have been said to diminish Bush > and > Cheney. > > I do not interpret this statement as benign. > And I do not respect it. > > > Marianne > > > >KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to > talk to > >Dick Cheney's daughter, >who is a lesbian, she would tell you that > she's > >being who she was, she's being who she was born as. > > > And one more thing. . . why would Kerry choose to talk about > "someone" who > he doesn't know all that well, as opposed to a lesbian or gay man > that he > knows. > > a spade is a spade > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Richard Flynn" > To: , , > Subject: RE: NJC Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC > NJC > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:03:56 -0400 > > Let's not forget Cheney's response when Edwards brought up his > daughter: > > "CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind > words he > said about my family and our daughter. > > I appreciate that very much." > > > I don't see why Cheney should thank Edwards and then have Lynne turn > around > and call an equally benign mention by Kerry "slimy." > > Mary Cheney has been out for a long time, She's even working for > Dad. > While it may not have been wise for Kerry to bring it up in the > debate, it's > hardly sleazy politics. > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on > how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:36:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc LMAO!!!!!! the "sodomite card"! thanks for the giggle....in the midst of terribly serious times. Em from the article Richard sent: > The Bush-Cheney administration has shamelessly > used > homosexuality as a wedge issue, never hesitating to play the sodomite > card when it serves their political ends ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:36:08 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: NJC, JMDL Cabinet Bob Muller wrote: > >Other positions to be filled..."Director of Dreamland Security"! - ------------- That's an easy one to fill. It would have to be SIQUOMB herself...... M I S S J O N I M I T C H E L L ! T H E C H I R P ! Whom else would we entrust to express and protect and understand our dreams? She is the only one, she is the only one.....I'm telling you now, she is the ONLY one! _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Aging and Drag Queens Hi Nuriel, but did he ever see the "nekkid" pic in the FTR album cover? I think that would convince anyone she's no drag queen. A very womanly ass indeed. Not saying a male-born drag queen could never, ever have such an ass....but, what are the odds? :) Em - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote: > > ... joni is aging gracefully &looks her age & dolly just doesn't... > > > > well, as Dolly says, "It takes a lot of work to look this cheap." > > > > "She also said that if she wouldn't have been born a women, she would > have > been a drag queen!" > > > > One of my best friends had his mind fixed for years over the idea > that Joni IS a drag queen! At the begining i thought he's was joking > or something, but as time went by, and he kept insisting that Joni IS > a drag queen, i realised the he realy meant what he was saying and > that he truely had no doubt that Joni IS indeed a drag queen! It was > only when Joni found her daughter that his stupidity ended. > > (This is a true story - honest!) > > Nuriel > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:51:57 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Regardless of Cheney's response to John Edwards. . . The references > to Mary Cheney's lesbianism feels TO ME to have been said to diminish > Bush and Cheney. > > I do not interpret this statement as benign. > And I do not respect it. > > > Marianne > > I don't see kerry's mentioning of Marcy Cheney as tasteless or slimy or even negative. Nothing he said about her was negative. I would think, tho don't know, that he specifically mentioned her to perhaps show up the hypocrisy of Cheney? perhaps Cheney accepts his daughter but still doens't think she deserves the same rights as every one else? I think that is worth bringing up. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Aging and Drag Queens Em wrote: Hi Nuriel, but did he ever see the "nekkid" pic in the FTR album cover? I think that would convince anyone she's no drag queen. A very womanly ass indeed. Not saying a male-born drag queen could never, ever have such an ass....but, what are the odds? :) Em Dear Em, Ha! You shouldv'e met this guy! He's amazing!:) He had an "answer" to everything. That nude pic? "Well, isn't the fact that you can only see the back side of her makes it obvious that it IS'NT HER?". God, he drove me mad for years with his drag "theory" and drag "proofs". It all started when he heard of a case that happened in Germany (i think) at the early 80's, when a man who had a soprano voice, made some recordings of some songs he wrote, and than some female singer published it under her name, pretending that she was the voice behind that song. It ended at the court house - and the man won. Don't know if that story's true, i only heard about it from him, but that case got him to, somehow, believe that Joni is a drag queen, which in any way, is much "better" than if he wouldv'e claimed that Song To a Seagull was sung by a man with a girlie voice and was stolen by Joni. Nuri Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:22:34 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Can John Kerry Cure Cancer? (PC & NJC really, but a JM reference) I was considering sending this anyway just because it's well-written, but then I wasn't going to because I'm trying to be "politically correct" here on the JMDL, but then I got to the end and it seemed a sure sign that I oughta send it anyway. : ) - ----- Can John Kerry Cure Cancer? Miracle worker or no, after the tyranny of BushCo, a "normal" prez will be a blessed relief By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Friday, October 15, 2004 There will not be a great parting of the clouds. There will not be brighter flowers and happier puppies. There will not be massive choruses of angels singing and birds chirping and dolphins finally standing upright and speaking fluent Latin and saying we knew it all along. Let's be real: Should Kerry win this election, we are most likely not in for a spectacular and unprecedented ride of shiny progressive glory that will astound the world and reignite the collective soul and float us all to the hereafter on golden wings of sparkly well-lubed bliss. OK? Read the rest here: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/10/15/notes101504.DTL&nl=fix Lori - -- Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:33:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Aging and Drag Queens - NJC From the latest Advocate: I have such a love connection with drag queens. It only makes me mad when one of them looks better than me. - ---Patty Duke np: Mary Gauthier - Drag Queens and Limousines ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:33:17 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC Hi Bob! 18 minutes of Slipping into Darkness??? I must get this!!!! The Best of War has been on my wish list for a year now, but I think I will change it to this CD. I must hear this! What a great memory of Peter Frampton! $4.99? Wow! those were the days and I was there too!!! Thanks for the info! Sherelle >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >To: sherellesmith@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:30:22 EDT > > >**I will test your memory now Bob! All I >could ever get was "I want to....." and the audience would roar. Just >curious! > > > >Well Sherelle, I think it was open to interpretation...my gut feeling (I'm >not on the PFDL so I don't know for sure) is that he was saying I want to >Rock >YOU but it was so fuzzy that those who wanted to hear the F-word heard it. >As crazy as it sounds, the first thing I heard off of it was "Doobie Wah" >which I loved enough to make me buy it the next day (for $4.99, I remember >buying >it at Schoolkids Records on Hillsborough Street). > >As for War Live - do look for it and check it out. It's available as a >2-CD >set (even though it all fits on 1 CD, whassup with that?) and it always >gets >me grooving, I've heard it so many times now it's really in my blood. And >I'm >totally with you on "All Day Music", which is KILLER in this live show, >not >to mention the 18 minutes of "Slippin' Into Darkness"... > >Bob > >NP: Irma Schultz/Bird That Whistles, "This Flight Tonight" _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:38:08 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc NJC NJC > Marianne, the question was simply whether homosexuality was a choice. Bush > of course evaded a direct answer. Kerry said in no uncertain terms that > homosexuality was NOT a "choice". Thank you for posting that portion of the transcript, Bob. Marianne, I believe Kerry was mainly trying to explain by example that homosexuality is not a choice. Of course he could've used another person as his example, and maybe he should have done so. I don't think it's particularly fabulous that Kerry and Edwards keep mentioning Mary Cheney, but one of the reasons they do it is that they want to remind the American people that Dick Cheney has a lesbian daughter and that he is not opposed to gay marriage, per se, while his boss wants a Constitutional amendment to prevent it. Because Mary has been a publicly "out" lesbian for a long time (she used to be the gay community liaison for Coors Brewing Company), and especially because her own parents have used her lesbianism for political gain, Mary is fair game. Marianne, are you considering voting for someone other than Kerry/Edwards? Just wondering. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:37:57 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC Yes M'aam! I woud love to hear this ensemble backing her up as well! Bad Sherelle!!!! Love ya back, Sherelle Donna wrote: > >Good Heavens Woman! RUN don't walk to the nearest music store and buy it. >I wore out 2 copies of the vinyl album and our own Ron Greer from South >Africa gave me a third last year after we met at Jonifest - thanks Ron! > >It may be my favorite of all. > >And I am looking at the pristine copy of it - never been played - here is >the lineup: > >Musicians: The L.A. Express > >Tom Scott - woodwinds and reeds >Max Bennett - bass >John Guerin - drums and percussion >Robben Ford - electric guitar >Larry Nash - ciano >"And me, the chirp" (her words on the recording) >Joni Mitchell accompanies herself on piano, guitar and dulcimer > >I always appreciated the vinyl album covers for the art work and >photography. IMHO CDs are overrated as in about 15 years I replaced 2 >vinyls - MOA and Clouds - and in about 3-4 years i've had countless cds go >bad... > >anyway, listen and enjoy! > >love ya, db > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:00:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC **18 minutes of Slipping into Darkness??? I must get this!!!! AND the "All Day Music" is over 10 minutes! Go, Sherelle go! Bob NP: Green Day, "Letterbomb" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:02:33 -0500 From: "P. Henry Boland" Subject: Re: my jonipages - help? jim! wow! howzit? I haven't been doing too well healthwise... but I'm hangin in there. (so far) hope things are going great for you and yours. yes, some other kindhearted, hypergenerous lister (other than yourself, that is) got to me first! LoL! what an incredible experience that tape is for me... and yes those Joni Anderson segments are *really* something... Joni was sooo young when I knew her... 21-22... it's hard to imagine she was ever any younger! ...guess I had to see it for myself. the other "year later" "looks a bit distant" "Joni Mitchell" is Joni as I knew her... exactly. ...in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the date of those segments lined up with weekends she wasn't playing at the Cellar. (or the Chessmate, the Riverboat, the 2nd Fret, etc...) I also particularly enjoyed the Just Like Me segment as that was one of the songs she taught me as well as one I saw her perform live, not 20 feet from me, about 40/50 times. thanks for thinking of me bro. warmest regards, pat ps - oh yeah, if mackers are going to be drawn here, especially re: images, they should all know about http://www.screengear.com.gu/ (shareware, $15) a simple screensaver that plays mpegs and soundfiles as well as jpegs and probably others... my buddy Lance wrote it and it's better than a lot of them because it's easier to use. you just drop everything in a folder and play. I like to use it with my 'JoniArt' folder... cya - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" > Yo, Pat! How the hell are you?... > Since you knew Joni in the coffee house days, I want to be sure to cover this with you: Did you get the very early video of Joni that Bob Muller brought to JoniFest in 2003? I think it was called "Let's Sing Out". In the first appearance she's billed as "Joni Anderson", and she looks very naive. A year later she looks a bit distant and is "Joni Mitchell". If not, send me your address again and I'll get it out to you. > Now, on to your question. I can see pictures on the link you included. I think the Mac people will jump on this thread, obviously. > All the best, > Jim > Pat said, > > I tried to access them from a pc... the pix don't show up! > http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/manyfaces.html - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:09:49 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC I am gone! This weekend for sure! I remember when they first came out with "Spill the Wine" with Eric Burden(sp?) who was the lead singer for the Animals. I remember thinking about what a unique sound they had! Then came "The World is a Ghetto", "Low Rider", "All Day Music" and "Why Can't We Be Friends". I loved them all! It was like a very unique hit factory. I wonder what Eric Burden (sp?) is doing these days? Sherelle Bob wrote: > > >**18 minutes of Slipping into Darkness??? I must get this!!!! > >AND the "All Day Music" is over 10 minutes! Go, Sherelle go! > >Bob > >NP: Green Day, "Letterbomb" > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:18:41 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc >perhaps Cheney accepts his daughter but still doens't think she deserves >the same rights as every >one else? I think that is worth bringing up. >colin Hi Colin, That is worth bringing up. . and Kerry doesn't think she deserves the same rights either. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc PC - --- Marianne Rizzo wrote: > That is worth bringing up. . > > and Kerry doesn't think she deserves the same rights either. but Kerry at least supports civil unions, right? where Bush doesn't? Its not a perfect solution, but I feel that allowing civil unions would go a long way towards getting the ball rolling towards FULL equal rights. If GF and I could get "a piece of paper from the city hall" - any piece - - it would make us feel better, even if it's not recognized by the Big 3 religions. Not sure we even *would* get it if it were available - but it would be nice to have the option. Even if the piece of paper is technically called a "civil union" instead of a marriage. At least it's something. :/ Em ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:51:24 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc Marianne's point is very well-taken here. But George W. Bush thinks that the denial of her rights ought to be written into the Constitution, something neither Kerry nor Cheney endorses. Rather, Cheney doesn't agree with it, but he actually does endorse it since he said he has to defer to the judgment of his boss. I wish Kerry would have the gumption to stop this "I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman" nonsense, but I would also like to see him elected. That's why they call it politics. And that's why even though I find no fault in his bringing up Mary Cheney--I do think it was not a very astute political move. Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Marianne Rizzo Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:19 PM To: colin@tantra-apso.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc >perhaps Cheney accepts his daughter but still doens't think she deserves >the same rights as every >one else? I think that is worth bringing up. >colin Hi Colin, That is worth bringing up. . and Kerry doesn't think she deserves the same rights either. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:01:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: I love Shadows and Light!!!! NJC and don't forget the oh so funky and seductive and smooth "Mother Earth". Made a person's face feel like in those old "Stoned Again" posters. Of course that was then and this is now. mmmmmmm...... :) Em - --- Sherelle Smith wrote: > I am gone! This weekend for sure! I remember when they first came out > with > "Spill the Wine" with Eric Burden(sp?) who was the lead singer for > the > Animals. I remember thinking about what a unique sound they had! Then > came > "The World is a Ghetto", "Low Rider", "All Day Music" and "Why Can't > We Be > Friends". I loved them all! It was like a very unique hit factory. I > wonder > what Eric Burden (sp?) is doing these days? > > Sherelle > > Bob wrote: > > > > > >**18 minutes of Slipping into Darkness??? I must get this!!!! > > > >AND the "All Day Music" is over 10 minutes! Go, Sherelle go! > > > >Bob > > > >NP: Green Day, "Letterbomb" > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:48:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc PC Em wrote: >If GF and I could get "a piece of paper from the city hall" - any piece >- it would make us feel better, even if it's not recognized by the Big >3 religions. >Not sure we even *would* get it if it were available - but it would be >nice to have the option. Even if the piece of paper is technically >called a "civil union" instead of a marriage. At least it's something. >:/ >Em > > > I must admit to being confused about 'civil union' and marriage. All I want is to be protected under law the same as husbands and wives are. I have no wish to go down the aisle, ahev a church wedding or anything like that. In fact I'd be happy to just sign a piece a paper. One that protects us. one that gives me next of kin rights, inheritance rights etc. As things stand now, if John dropped dead tomorrow, I would not get his pension. I don't work, I am a 'househusband'. I'd be up shit creek without a paddle. We do have power of attorney over eachother should it be needed. Our Dr's have signed forms from the pair of us which gives them permission to deal with either one of us about our medical stuff. I do consider myself married, 23 yrs and 3 mths now. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:44:24 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: dinosaurs, etc., NJC Steve wrote: (Why the feck were DINOSAURS never mentioned in the Bible? So are they a figment of our imagination?) Hi Steve! There is at least one description of what sounds like a dinosaur in the Bible to my knowledge... the Behemoth in Job 40:15-19 which says, "See, besides you I made Behemoth, that feeds on grass like an ox. Behold the strength in his loins, and his vigor in the sinews of his belly. He carries his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are like cables. His bones are like tubes of bronze; his frame is like iron rods. He came at the beginning of God's ways, and was made the taskmaster of his fellows." I find the bible supports homosexuals. However, our society tends to miss the beauty of homosexual love and interprets the bible accordingly. Jesus never spoke out against homosexuals, and I don't think that omission is to be taken lightly. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:08:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: dinosaurs, etc., NJC LCStanley7@aol.com said: ! > > There is at least one description of what sounds like a dinosaur in > the > Bible to my knowledge... the Behemoth in Job 40:15-19 which says, "See, > besides > you I made Behemoth, that feeds on grass like an ox. Behold the strength > in > his loins, and his vigor in the sinews of his belly. He carries his tail > like > a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are like cables. His bones are like > tubes > of bronze; his frame is like iron rods. He came at the beginning of God's > ways, and was made the taskmaster of his fellows." Hey Laura. That was me!!! Jerry :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:00:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter, njc PC **All I want is to be protected under law the same as husbands and wives are. And that should not be so much to ask, should it? My sister was in a 12-year relationship, and her partner was the one who had the better job, had bought the house (in her name only, of course - my sister had no property rights but obviously contributed her share of expenses) and most of the furnishings. When my sister's partner fell in love with another lady in a different city, she up and left my sister, sold the house and took all her stuff. My sister's job at a non-profit was not enough to support her and she had to find a place to live and all that goes with it to boot. She's finally back on her feet and out from under most of her debt, but it was a major struggle. If her partner had been a man instead of a woman, the whole thing would have played out differently. No matter what one believes, this just ain't right and it's time for a change. Bob NP: War, "Ballero" (I had to hear it after our conversation, Sherelle!) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #422 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)