From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #417 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 417 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita G] Joni's (last?) Waltz [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: nucular [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Jane Campion's The Piano and Joni -- njc ["hell" ] Re: nucular [Catherine McKay ] Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] a fond farewell to Superman (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? [Em ] Dylan with passing Joni content ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: nucular, re-la-tors, consonants, blah blah blah... ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC ["Steven Polifka" ] woodstock, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: Dylan with passing Joni content ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Dylan with passing Joni content [Nuriel Tobias ] A Silly Question - (but not about Joni) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni (?) and Judy on Dolly's upcoming CD [Garret ] JMDLPC - Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC, short [Lori Fye ] Re: No Joni Lyric For Madonna [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: No Joni Lyric For Madonna [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? [mags h ] english as a universal language ["Laurent Olszer" ] english as a universal language ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC Re: english as a universal language NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:48 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? Nuriel wrote "Been meaning to ask this for a long time... What do you think? Is Joni an "American" songwriter or a "Universal" one?" When I read this from the comfort of my English village, I imagined all the Canadian jmdlers writing with indignance that Joni writes with some kind of Canadian sensibility on American/world events/cultures. Maybe she doesn't. Is she seen more as an American? I Know lots of people think she's from the USA. Or does the term 'American' also include Canada? I know we call Brazil, Chile etc. South America and I have heard of people visiting The Americas. I don't know the answers here - maybe someone can enlighten me? And where do people think our Joan fits? My own view is that she has always had great insight into the human condition. Maybe that makes her universal - I would most certainly describe her writing as neat examination of existential issues.I don't feel Like Nuriel on this one when he says: "they're more like > postcards from America, rather than universal "messages". > Hejira, for example." The song Hejira is for me, an English woman, a wonderful look at what it is to be human - the search for meaning, the fear of isolation and death - well, it's all there in that one song. How I wish I could have written that one! Nuriel also wrote: " i sometimes find that lots of her songs/lyrics are very "American", which makes it easier for Americans to relate to and understand them " I have to say that I would struggle to understand anything like the depth of Joni's lyrics in any language other than my first language. That maybe more about my poor language skills! However, I absolutely love and am deeply moved by Savinna Yannatou (I think that's how you spell it)and I don't understand a single word or have a clue what she's singing about. Whether I would feel the same about Joni's music without understanding the lyric on something like 'Hejira' is a whole other thing. I have said before on the list that my first hearing of STAS in 1968 was an orchestral experience for me. All I listened to at that time was Debussy, Satie and (the much derided)Delius. The way Joni used the guitar and her voice in such an unusual way were most important to me and seemed to fit with what I loved musically - which tended to be orchestral. Anyway, that's my two pence worth and it's Soooo good to think, to read discuss these things every day! I am constantly reminded about the wonder of the internet and finding others who love Joni's music so much. When I think of all those years in the wilderness, I thank everyone and especially Les Irvine all over again! Better go off to work, Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni's (last?) Waltz Thanks to our dear Les (from London), who was ever so kind to scan and send me Joni's interview in Vanity Fair (thanks again, Les:)), i can now let you know that the only music piece she composed ever since she's "retired" (the term she used), is a piano piece, been worked on since 1997, and it's a waltz. Nuriel Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:38:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: nucular **She does, in that recent radio interview from somewhere in the States. And in a like manner, everytime she tells the Magdalene Laundries story, she says "re-la-tors" instead of real-tors....Rrrrrrrrr. Love ya just the same though Joni. Bob NP: Ani, "Overlap" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:44:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC **Bob Muller, cover #69 is "Willie"???????????? - surely you are making that up just to see if we read the entire listing... No, that order is generated automatically - hey, at least it wasn't Sex Kills! Bob NP: Ani, "In The Way" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:56:43 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Jane Campion's The Piano and Joni -- njc Smurf wrote: > Gee, this sounds sorta like the Ellen Jamesians from "The World > According to Garp." They were the ones who cut out their tongues > in protest of something, was it Ellen James's rape and murder? The rape yes, but Ellen James survived. She had her tongue cut out by the rapists, to prevent her talking about the crime (they forgot she could read and write), and she eventually became a writer. It's a long while since I read the book, but I seem to remember Garp meeting Ellen James near the end. My favourite memory of the film is John Lithgow as the trans-sexual football player - didn't he get an Oscar nomination for that performance? Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:22:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: nucular --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **She does, in that recent radio interview from > somewhere in the States. > > And in a like manner, everytime she tells the > Magdalene Laundries story, she > says "re-la-tors" instead of > real-tors....Rrrrrrrrr. > Love ya just the same though Joni. > I always forget about that until someone brings it up. It makes me cringe every time I hear her tell that story, which she has done often enough. Always pronounces "realtors" incorrectly. At least she's consistent. And in case anyone's wondering, nu-cu-lar and re-la-tor aren't Canadian pronunciations - they're just wrong. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:27:08 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC Vince writes: << **Bob Muller, cover #69 is "Willie"???????????? - surely you are making that up just to see if we read the entire listing... >> Bob replies: << No, that order is generated automatically - hey, at least it wasn't Sex Kills! >> Or Both Sides Now! XO, - --Smurf, off for a minor but VERY INVASIVE procedure, so no time for the Gov. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:07:37 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: a fond farewell to Superman (njc) I'll add my voice to those wishing Christopher Reeve a heaven where he can walk, and dance, and fly. What a brave soul. May his voice be heard, especially as people determine the future of this country and the world. He reminded us that we can't just wait for miracles, we have to work hard to make them happen. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? To me Joni's music, words, art are truly universal so long as its a part of the universe where women are permitted to be strong and individualistic and have their quirks and oddities, without having the sh_t beat out of them by some man who wants her to be only his silent house slave and brood-mare. Seems some parts of the world uphold Joni-ness more than others. Just a hunch. Anywhere you can be wild and obstinate and individualistic and creative, while being a female thats where Joni comes from. Any state of Turbulent Indigo which is not just for guys. Em ps: like I could easily imagine her being from somewhere else besides Canada or LA Mars? didn't somebody say she's from Mars? - --- Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: > Nuriel wrote > > "Been meaning to ask this for a long time... > > What do you think? Is Joni an "American" songwriter or a "Universal" > one?" > > When I read this from the comfort of my English village, I imagined > all > the Canadian jmdlers writing with indignance that Joni writes with > some > kind of Canadian sensibility on American/world events/cultures. ..snip ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:10:52 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Dylan with passing Joni content The laconic Bob Dylan gave his first broadcast interview this morning on NPR. He said he understood how Joni Mitchell could give up the music business to concentrate on painting< don't know if the audio is up yet, but here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4080202 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:37:05 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: nucular, re-la-tors, consonants, blah blah blah... And she sings her darn consonants! "While Muslims stick up Washingtonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn........" Double argh! Stevo >>> 10/12/04 05:38AM >>> **She does, in that recent radio interview from somewhere in the States. And in a like manner, everytime she tells the Magdalene Laundries story, she says "re-la-tors" instead of real-tors....Rrrrrrrrr. Love ya just the same though Joni. Bob NP: Ani, "Overlap" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:39:25 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: njc strolling through the bios NJC - --Smurf, off for a minor but VERY INVASIVE procedure, so no time for the Gov. What, a date with Gov. McGreevy??? Steve, just dying to know!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:51:33 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? Nuriel, I think you have some interesting, thought provoking thoughts here. . . I have never thought of this. . You make a lot of sense. Marianne >Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:24:59 -0700 (PDT) >From: Nuriel Tobias >Subject: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? >Been meaning to ask this for a long time... >What do you think? Is Joni an "American" songwriter or a "Universal" one? Yes, i know most of you would find this question silly, and tell me that "But OF COURSE she's a universal artist! She's every man's and woman's on earth inner voice!" The only "problem" is that i, being a non-American Joni fan (same as the "problem" may be that most of you are Americans, and even if you're not to believe that "America=The world", you may not be too objective) - i sometimes find that lots of her songs/lyrics are very "American", which makes it easier for Americans to relate to and understand them, and for a guy like me, based in the middle-east, they're more like postcards from America, rather than universal "messages". Hejira, for example. No need to say that it's an amazing album, that - in case you're a non-American listner who understands English good enough, and have the chance to be a jmdl member so you can find answers to terms you otherwise would've never understood - may seem to be a "universal" album, but would i be totally wrong to think that it's even more of an "American" album, as in a VERY "American" one? (BSN - the album that is, may serve as my example for a totally "universal" album, to help you understand my question). So much of her songwriting is filled with "American" landscapes, "American" folks, "American" lifestyle, "American" way of speaking, "American" events, "American" politics, etc' - that i sometimes envy all you American Joni fans out there for being able to REALLY know what she's talking about, unlike someone like me, who sometimes can only close his eyes and imagine it. Hope you understood my question and i'm really looking forward to read your opinions. Thanks, Yours, Nuriel p.s. Just wanted to add, that another confusing "problem" for me in finding the answer to this, is that English is indeed a "universal" thing, and since Joni writes in English, one may find her songs "universal" for that reason only. But let's pretend that Joni was to write in Hebrew (a very non-universal language), about the same stuff, but with all the American-wise lyrics turned into Israeli-wise lyrics - would anyone even dream of calling her songwriting "universal"?... _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:38:09 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: So long, Superman njc I believe he would have laughed long and hard at that one. On the Today show yesterday morning they ran a tape from him two years ago...he told his own joke: Q. What's the difference between Christopher Reeves and O.J.? A. O.J. walked. or something like that. He then proceeded to guffaw. RIP Christopher Reeve - and comfort goes out to his family and loved ones. Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:13 PM To: Jonilist Subject: So long, Superman njc I was really sad to learn that Christopher Reeves has died. In fact, one of my nieces told me and I thought it was the beginning of a joke. In fact, she did tell a joke, which is very sick, but neverthless: Q. What's the opposite of Christopher Reeves? A. Christopher Walken. Yeah, it's sick, but funny, in a sick way. I hope he would have found it funny, but maybe not. I'm really sorry Chris is gone and I hope the work he has done for paraplegia research goes on. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:53:34 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: woodstock, njc When was the exact date of woodstock in 1969? I forgot why it was I wanted to know this . . . but I want to know. Hey, maybe someone can give us an astrological analysis of that date. . Wally? Anybody? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:10:52 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Dylan with passing Joni content Clarification: first broadcast interview in 19 years. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Richard Flynn Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:11 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Dylan with passing Joni content The laconic Bob Dylan gave his first broadcast interview this morning on NPR. He said he understood how Joni Mitchell could give up the music business to concentrate on painting< don't know if the audio is up yet, but here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4080202 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:13:34 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Dylan with passing Joni content I heard this, too. Thanks for sharing it with everyone, because I got to work and promptly forgot! I didn't get to hear much of this interview, regrettably, but he did say that he was trying to figure out something else to do (tongue-in-cheek). Good thing Joni already knows what that other thing is, or else she might have kept on making music. Then we'd have to talk about it instead of politics, and that would be just awful! Maggie PS Don't faint just because I sent two messages in one hour after lurking and deleting for months since Jonifest 04. - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Flynn [mailto:rflynn@frontiernet.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:11 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Dylan with passing Joni content The laconic Bob Dylan gave his first broadcast interview this morning on NPR. He said he understood how Joni Mitchell could give up the music business to concentrate on painting< don't know if the audio is up yet, but here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4080202 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:19:23 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Joni (?) and Judy on Dolly's upcoming CD GREAT IDEA, Mike (Dolly covering "You Turn Me On...")! I can hear it now. Joni could even guest by remaking some of those lower register, background vocals similar to the ones on the original. ;-) XXXOOO, Billy Mike Friedman (mike@pinataperspective.com) wrote: >>>I really like the idea of Dolly singing "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio!"<<< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:07:46 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc using the church This is all somewhat incredible to me. Vince http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/politics/campaign/12catholics.html?th=&adxnnl=1&oref=login&pagewanted=2&adxnnlx=1097593212-HmDRpQDMq80mUwsIcp5aSg Group of Bishops Using Influence to Oppose Kerry By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and LAURIE GOODSTEIN Published: October 12, 2004 ENVER, Oct. 9 - For Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, the highest-ranking Roman Catholic prelate in Colorado, there is only one way for a faithful Catholic to vote in this presidential election, for President Bush and against Senator John Kerry . "The church says abortion is a foundational issue,'' the archbishop explained to a group of Catholic college students gathered in a sports bar here in this swing state on Friday night. He stopped short of telling them whom to vote for, but he reminded them of Mr. Kerry's support for abortion rights. And he pointed out the potential impact his re-election could have on Roe v. Wade. Advertisement "Supreme Court cases can be overturned, right?" he asked. Archbishop Chaput, who has never explicitly endorsed a candidate, is part of a group of bishops intent on throwing the weight of the church into the elections. Galvanized by battles against same-sex marriage and stem cell research and alarmed at the prospect of a President Kerry - who is Catholic but supports abortion rights - these bishops and like-minded Catholic groups are blanketing churches with guides identifying abortion, gay marriage and the stem cell debate as among a handful of "non-negotiable issues." To the dismay of liberal Catholics and some other bishops, traditional church concerns about the death penalty or war are often not mentioned. Archbishop Chaput has discussed Catholic priorities in the election in 14 of his 28 columns in the free diocesan newspaper this year. His archdiocese has organized voter registration drives in more than 40 of the largest parishes in the state and sent voter guides to churches around the state. Many have committees to help turn out voters and are distributing applications for absentee ballots. In an interview in his residence here, Archbishop Chaput said a vote for a candidate like Mr. Kerry who supports abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research would be a sin that must be confessed before receiving Communion. "If you vote this way, are you cooperating in evil?" he asked. "And if you know you are cooperating in evil, should you go to confession? The answer is yes." The efforts of Archbishop Chaput and his allies are converging with a concerted drive for conservative Catholic voters by the Bush campaign. It has spent four years cultivating Catholic leaders, organizing more than 50,000 volunteers and hiring a corps of paid staff members to increase Catholic turnout. The campaign is pushing to break the traditional allegiance of Catholic voters to the Democratic Party, an affiliation that began to crumble with Ronald Reagan 24 years ago. Catholics make up about a quarter of the electorate, and many conservative Catholics are concentrated in swing states, pollsters say. Conservatives organizers say they are working hard because the next president is quite likely to name at least one new Supreme Court justice. Catholic prelates have publicly clashed with Catholic Democrats like former Gov. Mario M. Cuomo of New York and Geraldine A. Ferraro, the former representative and vice-presidential candidate. But never before have so many bishops so explicitly warned Catholics so close to an election that to vote a certain way was to commit a sin. Less than two weeks ago, Archbishop Raymond L. Burke of St. Louis issued just such a statement. Bishop Michael J. Sheridan of Colorado Springs and Archbishop John J. Myers of Newark have both recently declared that the obligation to oppose abortion outweighs any other issue. In theological terms, these bishops and the voter guides argue that abortion and the destruction of embryos are categorically wrong under church doctrine. War and even the death penalty can in certain circumstances be justified. But it is impossible to know how many bishops share this view, and there is resistance from a sizable wing of the church that argues that voting solely on abortion slights Catholic teaching on a range of other issues, including war, poverty, the environment and immigration. Liberal Catholics contend that the church has traditionally left weighing the issues to the individual conscience. Late in the campaign, these Catholics have begun to mount a counterattack, belatedly and with far fewer resources. In diocesan newspapers in Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia, they are buying advertisements with the slogan "Life Does Not End at Birth." Organizers of the campaign say it is supported by 200 Catholic organizations, among them orders of nuns and brothers. "We are looking at a broader picture, a more global picture," said Bishop Gabino Zavala, an auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles who is president of Pax Christi USA, a Catholic peace group that initiated the statement. "If you look at the totality of issues as a matter of conscience, someone could come to the decision to vote for either candidate." In the presidential debate on Friday, Mr. Kerry discussed his religious beliefs. "I was an altar boy," he said. "But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever." Advertisement Alexia Kelley, director for religious outreach for the Democratic National Committee, said Mr. Kerry's policies reflected overall Catholic teachings. The Republican Party is betting that many observant Catholics will disagree. The National Catholic Reporter reported that that on a visit to the pope this year Mr. Bush asked Vatican officials directly for help in lining up American bishops in support of conservative cultural issues. For four years, the party has held weekly conference calls with a representative of the White House for prominent Catholic conservatives. To ramp up the Catholic campaign last summer, the party dispatched its chairman, Ed Gillespie, and a roster well-known Catholic Republicans on a speaking tour to Catholic groups throughout the swing states. The party has recruited an undisclosed number of Catholic field coordinators who earn $2,500 a month, along with up to $500 a month for expenses to increase conservative Catholic turnout. In an interview this week from Albuquerque, where he was rallying Catholic outreach workers, Leonard A. Leo, executive vice president of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal group, who has taken the role of informal adviser to Mr. Bush's campaign on Catholic issues, said Republicans hoped that Mr. Bush could draw even more of the Catholic vote than Reagan, who attracted 54 percent when he ran for re-election in 1984. Mr. Bush received just under half of the Catholic vote in 2000. In a Pew Research poll this month, 42 percent of white Catholics favored Mr. Bush, 29 percent favored Mr. Kerry, and 27 percent were undecided. "I can't think of another time in recent political history where a political party and a campaign have paid more attention to faithful Catholics," Mr. Leo said. How the bishops' guidance or the new voter guides are playing in the pews remains to be seen. In a poll for Time magazine in June, 76 percent of Catholics said the church's position on abortion made no difference in their decisions about voting. But in a New York Times poll conducted over the summer, 71 percent of Catholics favored some restrictions on abortion, compared with 64 percent of the general public. Republican strategists say Catholics and others who attend religious services at least once a week tend to be more conservative. Fifty-three percent of those Catholics supported Mr. Bush in 2000 compared with 47 percent of all Catholics, according to exit polls. The Rev. Frank Pavone, national director of Priests for Life of Staten Island, N.Y., says priests with his group are going from church to church in swing states like Florida, giving fellow priests sample homilies for each Sunday in November, inserts for church bulletins and voter guides. Father Pavone spoke by telephone from Aberdeen, S.D., where he said he was meeting with dozens of priests and nuns to teach them how to organize transportation to take parishioners to the polls. Addressing abortion, he said he told audiences, "One can't hold public office and say it's O.K. to kill some of the public." In past elections, the main voter guide distributed in many Catholic churches was a questionnaire from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that listed candidates' stands on dozens of issues. This year, conservative Catholic groups sought to derail the questionnaire, because it appeared to give equal weight to each issue. When neither the Bush nor Kerry campaigns responded to the questions by the deadline, the bishops' conference abandoned the effort, a spokesman, Msgr. Francis Maniscalco, said. Many parishes are having free-for-alls over what materials to use in helping Catholics think through their choices. Many bishops are using a document the bishops developed last year, "Faithful Citizenship." It tells Catholic voters to consider a range of issues and vote their consciences. Other parishes are instead using a guide from a conservative Web site, Catholic Answers, at www.catholic .com. The guide says it is a sin to vote for a candidate who supports any one of five "non-negotiable issues," abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and homosexual marriage. Archbishop Chaput says he has had no contact with either campaign or political party. He says his sole contact with the White House has been his appointment to the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom. The prelate acknowledged that his communications director, Sergio Gutierrez, had worked in the Bush administration, but Archbishop Chaput said he had known Mr. Gutierrez long before that. It was only logical for the Republicans to view the church as a "natural ally" on cultural issues, the archbishop said. He said that would end if a Republican candidate supported abortion rights. "We are not with the Republican Party," he said. "They are with us." Mr. Kerry's Catholicism is a special issue for the church, Archbishop Chaput said. To remain silent while a President Kerry supported stem cell research would seem cowardly, he said. The Rev. Andrew Kemberling, pastor of St. Thomas More Church near here, said he agreed with the archbishop, but he acknowledged that parishioners sometimes accused him of telling them how to vote. He said his reply was: "We are not telling them how to vote. We are telling them how to take Communion in good conscience." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:12:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dylan with passing Joni content Well thanks a lot for that comment, Bob Dylan - that's "exactly" what Joni needed to hear! Uhhhh...no use...She's probably already heard that interview on the radio and went "Thank God, at least my dear Boby understands me". Why don't YOU give up "singing", Dylan, and concentrate on ballet?! Nuriel Richard Flynn wrote: The laconic Bob Dylan gave his first broadcast interview this morning on NPR. He said he understood how Joni Mitchell could give up the music business to concentrate on painting< don't know if the audio is up yet, but here's the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4080202 vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:05:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: A Silly Question - (but not about Joni) Could anyone help me trace a song's name? It's a Jerome Kern song, seen it on "Till The Clouds Roll By", think it's something like 'How'd ya like ta' swing with me?" - but ain't too sure. I had no one else to ask but you guys, and if you don't mind just one more silly question - who sang it in that lovely film? Thanks, Nuri vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:15 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? emzdogz@yahoo.com (Em) wrote: > Anywhere you can be wild and obstinate and individualistic and > creative, while being a female thats where Joni comes from. > Any state of Turbulent Indigo which is not just for guys. > Em > ps: like I could easily imagine her being from somewhere else besides > Canada or LA > Mars? didn't somebody say she's from Mars? > I like the idea, Em, of coming from Turbulent Indigo. Makes a lot of sense to me, Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:21:43 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Find Your Own Joni Magical Spell:) David Michael Pritchard - dreamland mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:11:41 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: joni on my radio. etc. Dear Ones: This morning I had a particularly beautiful ride to work here in New England. I took the back country October roads, past the red barns and pumpkin patches and horse fields (no Shell oil fields here!), drinking in the riot of colors in the trees (remember day-glo paint??) and WILLING myself to have a great day. Well, my will be done -- as soon as I parked my car, Joni starts singing from my radio! Eyes wide open! Not from the CD player (because I don't have one -- poor poor pitiful me), but the regular old radio. It's always magic when, quite unexpectedly, you hear THAT VOICE - -- you know what I mean? Yes, of course you do! It made my day. The song, btw, was "Help Me", and while all the Husky-sweatshirted students and colored leaves swirled around my vehicle, I just sat there and sang my heart out. If I drew funny looks, if people thought that chick was twisted, I didn't care. Now, I ramble onto a different subject: we have three more weeks of intense, INTENSE political discussion and fighting. I see it here on the list, and I see it between me and my own brother, and my own mother. I hope we can all take deep Joni-breaths from time to time, step back and keep our eye on the prize. Be cool! Talk to the fence sitters, forget the people way out in right field. We're not going to be able to bring them back to the garden, sadly. Everyone back up on the Peace Train! Choo choo cha boogie, Kerry/Edwards! Love and peace, Patti P.S. And in addition to the election, we have the RED SOX vs. the Evil Empire starting tonight! Ooh la la!!! And if you disagree that the Yankees are evil, know this: I just read that Steinbrenner and A-Rod contribute to the Bush campaign. Enough said? GO SOX! _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:27:15 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni (?) and Judy on Dolly's upcoming CD As someting of a Dolly fan (absolutely not my fault!!), i have been hearing rumours for some time about an ambitious project Dolly is working on that will be an album of duets and collaborations. Sounds like this could be it. I think SInead O Connor may also be involved (and i really like her music). Given that Dolly has like eighty albums and has a large number of covers (i just love great balls of fire and in the ghetto), i have always been a little surprised that she hasn't had a joni cover (but then, i still hope for a Nina Simone interpretatoin of a joni song to emerge). A joni collaboration may be a little more exciting than a joni cover. Dolly has been interesting in recent years. Her album, little sparrow being one to listen to. GARRET - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:00:18 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: No Joni Lyric For Madonna > Yes, i know we all don't care much for her, but i found this Madonna lyric to > be quite interesting Joni-wise. Who says we all don't much care for her? I love Madonna! > It's the chorus of the song "Drowned world" from the album "Ray of Light". > Notice the lyrics that follow the word "no" - don't they remind of you > "someone else's" lyrics, and could it be that Madonna was settling scores > with Joni? > > "No ferris wheel, no heart to steal > No laughter in the dark > No one-night stand, no far-off land > No fire that I can spark" > > (No jmdl member's going to reply to this one:)) I'm replying, and I'm wondering: What scores? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:08:48 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: JMDLPC - Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC, short Mark asked: > Is it my imagination or did somebody say something about a separate list for > political discussion being created? Yes, it's been in existence for awhile. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmdlpc/ > I've been deleting these unread but it just seems that this subject line is > getting to be the dominant one on the JMDL over the past few days. It will become more dominant in the next 3 weeks, and probably go on for awhile after the election too. I know it's not as much fun because the (potential) audience isn't as large, but might those of us involved in this topic *consider* joining the JMDLPC group? Lori, who wonders if everyone will conceded that it's *possible* that Kate is right about greedy old men ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:27:00 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC Bob S wrote: > That said, I am not at all sure (not even confident, really) that we are on > the right path here. Nor am I confident we are not taking our best shot for > the moment. The president is overconfident that he is. His opponents are > overconfident that he is not. And because the stakes - war and peace - are so > high, it is to be expected that there will be passioned differences of > opinion among us. But I think that most of us believe that we are all on the > same side in wanting the best result possible over the coming decades. Let's > at least give one another that much credit. Okay. Let's. Now ... it's your private business of course but ... does this mean you're voting for Bush or for Kerry? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:49:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: No Joni Lyric For Madonna Lori Fye wrote: "Yes, i know we all don't care much for her, but i found this Madonna lyric to > be quite interesting Joni-wise. Who says we all don't much care for her? I love Madonna!" A-ha! I knew there was a madonna fan hiding here somewhere! This whole thread was a trick to find out just who it was, and there we have it - Lori Fye! Shame on you, girl! You are reported to the Joni police at once! :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Pssss...Lori...don't let "them" know, but i also love her...i love her very much... "(No jmdl member's going to reply to this one:)) I'm replying, and I'm wondering: What scores?" What scores? What scores, Lori???? You should read more Joni interviews on jmdl.com - if you do so, you'd see that there's lots of stuff regarding Joni vs. The Universe...lol! OK, OK - she said some nasty things about Madonna (what interview, i can't say for sure, but i've seen it with my own eyes, honest) - and that was right after Madonna said how much she loved Court and Spark in her youth. Isn't that a shame? Same thing happened with Alanis (or Analis, as my man calls her), and with lots of other "pop" girls too. Then ROL was released, and i found that, in a way, maybe not, i dunno, Madonna was settling scores with Joni, but maybe i'm just getting smartass here, though there is "something" odd going on in those lyrics, don't you think? Don't answer me! I don't want to know! LOL! Sorry for this whole post, Lori. I'm overdozed by too much emailing for one day. Find it in your heart to forgive me. Nuriel Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: No Joni Lyric For Madonna Lori Fye wrote: "Yes, i know we all don't care much for her, but i found this Madonna lyric to > be quite interesting Joni-wise. Who says we all don't much care for her? I love Madonna!" A-ha! I knew there was a madonna fan hiding here somewhere! This whole thread was a trick to find out just who it was, and there we have it - Lori Fye! Shame on you, girl! You are reported to the Joni police at once! :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Pssss...Lori...don't let "them" know, but i also love her...i love her very much... "(No jmdl member's going to reply to this one:)) I'm replying, and I'm wondering: What scores?" What scores? What scores, Lori???? You should read more Joni interviews on jmdl.com - if you do so, you'd see that there's lots of stuff regarding Joni vs. The Universe...lol! OK, OK - she said some nasty things about Madonna (what interview, i can't say for sure, but i've seen it with my own eyes, honest) - and that was right after Madonna said how much she loved Court and Spark in her youth. Isn't that a shame? Same thing happened with Alanis (or Analis, as my man calls her), and with lots of other "pop" girls too. Then ROL was released, and i found that, in a way, maybe not, i dunno, Madonna was settling scores with Joni, but maybe i'm just getting smartass here, though there is "something" odd going on in those lyrics, don't you think? Don't answer me! I don't want to know! LOL! Sorry for this whole post, Lori. I'm overdozed by too much emailing for one day. Find it in your heart to forgive me. Nuriel vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:47:24 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? hello everyone.... a few thoughts on a rainy afternoon....I think of Joni as Canadian, because I know she is..once a Canadian always....I dont know...it's just how I think of her. I dont think .. Joni the American... and with all due respect...Canadians take great pride in being known as Canadians, not Americans. We are rarely known as North Americans...as South Americans are. Nuriel asks... is Joni's songwriting universal...hmmm that's a good question...I have heard from many listers that Joni's songs, and lyrics speak to their experiences...I also know that saying someone / something is universal is a bit of a sticky wicket. (dont worry, Im not going to get all political here). ;-)) I first heard Joni's music in 1974, a surprise it was, and my collection grew very slowly over the years. In fact, I probably picked up the majority of my Joni CDs during the past four years of membership here. I have gained an education of the Joni kind, and continue to do so... hey why not a degree at the university of Joni ;-) now listening to my bro Bob's sweeeet sweet 16 Volume three.......wow oh wow this is amazing..and Im only on Help Me! thanks angel Ashara for this one !!! Anyway, Nuriel, Im glad you brought up the question to ponder about whether or not Joni can be considered universal in her writing. I relate to so much of what she has to say. I dont think I can answer it yes or no... how about maybe ;-)) Mags *if you've had a kindness shown, pass it on* Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:57:21 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: Re: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? Gee I never thought of Canada as Turbulent Indigo , but hey why not! Mags, another turbulent indigOdian LOL (silli mood today) if you've had a kindness shown, pass it on. Yahoo! Mail  CNET Editors' Choice 2004. Tell them what you think. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:09:23 -0400 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Stop the Bleeding/adopt a voter/Hundreth Monkey (njc) In response to my idea that each Kerry supporter adopt one voter who is undecided, or soft on Bush, or thinking of voting for Nader, and try to convert that one person to a vote for Kerry, someone here advised that this would be beneficial only in the battleground states. Which is true on the face of it, but my wise wife pointed out that on the basis of the Hundreth Monkey theory (monkeys on one island learning to wash yams, monkeys on another island adopting the behavior through collective consciousness) it's still a good idea even if Kerry is well ahead in your state. I agree with my wise wife. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:48:49 EDT From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Emmylou Linda and Dolly NJC Joni Rose update First Nuriel I just love what you did with SSS please email me it in a MS Word format so I can print small enough to insert in the TI CD jacket. I do have Trio II the best swinging song on the CD is "Blue Train" by Jennifer Kimball/Tim Kimmel it also has a dreamy version of "After the Gold Rush." The CD Booklet has pictures of the girl when they were in elementary school. Emmylou and Linda made another CD called Western Wall has a good version of "For a Dancer 'by Jackson Browne and "Sisters of Mercy" by the "Priest with a Pornographic Watch?) Leonard Cohen. Greg Liesz plays a lot of fine guitar on many of the songs. I am getting the last bloom on my roses here in Roseland and collecting Rose Hips off my yellow roses, next spring I will germinate the seeds and hopefully find a big beautiful blonde rose to name after Joni. Brian De Rosaville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:31:47 +0100 From: Garret Subject: english as a universal language Your other question about english as a universal language is another topic. Whether we like it or not the american culture is universal. I recall my 1st impression of L.A. was: looks very familiar after watching american TV series. So if one lives in a part of the world where there are american films on TV, chances are we all have the same cultural references. On the one hand it's pitiful because some may argue it's the lowest common denominator. I look at the positive effect: we share values with more people on the planet today than 50 years ago. Laurent > > Fortunately we all have different accents and dialects that keep it interesting Laurent:-) I was in Waterstones on picadilly just before i left London and I came across a little volume teaching Anglo-Irish words to tourists so they could get by in English-speaking Ireland. It was funny (and to be honest, i had not realised that some of them were specific to Ireland). When i was in Sweden earlier this year i was surprised to find that English was such a prevalent part of their culture. I was in a fairly northern university town doing some research and even the small children had good english. I had an interesting chat with a man there. I mentioned that i was surprised at the fact that everyone had English and that even large groups of people would speak English when i was around even when they were drinking!! He was talking about either Norway or Finland saying that they tend not to be so English-ready there as they were holding onto their own language, but *he* thought that the Swedes ability and, more to the point, willingness to use English was an advantage in an increasingly, eh, globalised (?) world. Why hold on and stunt development (our conversation was largely in relation to scientific research) and chances for international co-operation and investment? I had not really thought about the economic value of it before. I'm not entirely convinced that American culture is universal however, but it's interesting that you make these points Laurent. GARRET NP- Diana Ross, Imagine - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:23:13 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: english as a universal language > Garrett wrote: > Fortunately we all have different accents and dialects that keep it interesting > I came across a little volume teaching Anglo-Irish words to tourists so they could > get by in English-speaking Ireland. It was funny (and to be honest, i had not > realised that some of them were specific to Ireland). > > I'm not entirely convinced that American culture is universal however, but it's > interesting that you make these points Laurent. > Please forgive me. I should have made an exception for Ireland. After all, america "stole" their language, really. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:23:56 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: english as a universal language Oops, forgot the NJC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:40:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: english as a universal language NJC **Oops, forgot the NJC Soon it won't be a problem Laurent...Les is busy working on a new email device (he's very smart you know) that will automatically add NJC on to EVERY post generated on the JMDL. That way the Joni-onlies will never have anything to complain about. Neat, huh? Bob NP: Joni, "You've Changed" (footnote to above NP: About a month or so ago I ripped all of my Joni CD's onto my computer's hard drive and put them in a special Joni playlist which I listen to in random order...even though I would never pull BSN or Tlog out to listen to them, I really like all the tracks on both of these CD's now, as long as they're not sequential, in other words mixed up with all the other songs in Joni's catalogue. This is CLINICAL proof that those records have been great all along and that the problem has been me. What a revelation.) Now it's NP: "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" (which I've always liked anyway...what's not to like? This to me is Joni being fun in a way that Dancin' Clown doesn't approach) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #417 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)