From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #415 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 11 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 415 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? [Nuriel Tobias ] PS PS Stop the Bushies - NJC PC [colin ] Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC [colin ] Re: battling terrorism - NJC PC ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC talkin' & squawkin' on the jmdl LONG [was Stop the Bleeding] ["K] Re: battling terrorism - NJC PC ["Kakki" ] Re: joni dream -- njc, pc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: to kill or not to kill, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: joni dream -- njc, pc [mags h ] Vote for Change NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Mellisa Ethridge has cancer njc ["Sherelle Smith" ] Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: joni dream -- njc, pc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Mellisa Ethridge has cancer njc [Catherine McKay ] happy birthday roberto holliston, october 11 - NJC ["patrick leader" ] NJC tape vs. DVD (was joni dream) [dsk ] RE: Peace Train njc ["Nikki Johnson" ] RE: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests ["Nikki Johnson" Subject: Joni's songwriting - American or Universal? Been meaning to ask this for a long time... What do you think? Is Joni an "American" songwriter or a "Universal" one? Yes, i know most of you would find this question silly, and tell me that "But OF COURSE she's a universal artist! She's every man's and woman's on earth inner voice!" The only "problem" is that i, being a non-American Joni fan (same as the "problem" may be that most of you are Americans, and even if you're not to believe that "America=The world", you may not be too objective) - i sometimes find that lots of her songs/lyrics are very "American", which makes it easier for Americans to relate to and understand them, and for a guy like me, based in the middle-east, they're more like postcards from America, rather than universal "messages". Hejira, for example. No need to say that it's an amazing album, that - in case you're a non-American listner who understands English good enough, and have the chance to be a jmdl member so you can find answers to terms you otherwise would've never understood - may seem to be a "universal" album, but would i be totally wrong to think that it's even more of an "American" album, as in a VERY "American" one? (BSN - the album that is, may serve as my example for a totally "universal" album, to help you understand my question). So much of her songwriting is filled with "American" landscapes, "American" folks, "American" lifestyle, "American" way of speaking, "American" events, "American" politics, etc' - that i sometimes envy all you American Joni fans out there for being able to REALLY know what she's talking about, unlike someone like me, who sometimes can only close his eyes and imagine it. Hope you understood my question and i'm really looking forward to read your opinions. Thanks, Yours, Nuriel p.s. Just wanted to add, that another confusing "problem" for me in finding the answer to this, is that English is indeed a "universal" thing, and since Joni writes in English, one may find her songs "universal" for that reason only. But let's pretend that Joni was to write in Hebrew (a very non-universal language), about the same stuff, but with all the American-wise lyrics turned into Israeli-wise lyrics - would anyone even dream of calling her songwriting "universal"?... Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:34:07 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Stop the Bushies - NJC PC Kakki wrote: > It would have been enough for a visit >from the Secret Service if you lived in the states. > >Kakki > > > then i am glad I don't! we really are allowed free speech here...I think! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:35:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: PS PS Stop the Bushies - NJC PC Kakki wrote: > > >Your first remark that I had spun what you had said blew me away and I >thought you were trying to head-trip me. Then I thought maybe someone else >might have wrriten it instead of you. It seemed awfully clear what you >meant and then later I thought the meaning of "take someone out" > ps on reflection it was a very clumsy sentence that i wrote and hence the confusion. So i apologise for suggesting the lack of understandign of it was a lack of brightness on your part! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:32:49 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC Kakki wrote: > Colin wrote: > > You always always state how many ohter people are > > hounded out of here because of it. You eman like |Marcel? Like the guy > > who recently left, Smurphs friend(sorry i can't recall his name)? > > Nope and nope. I am thinking of about three or four women who have left, >some of whom were called "Marcel in drag" practically the first time they >posted some opposing political comment. I am thinking of a number of others >(men and women) who have gone over to Joni only of have left completely >because of the discourse. They haven't publically come out and announced to >you why they have left or gone to lurk - they tell people who understand - >but the reasons are because of the hostile environment and rude treatment by >some people for certain political views. > > > People who disagree with those on the right are called-even by > > you-dishonest, stupid, bleeding hearts(which actually is compl.iment), > > I'm the one who gets called a "liar" around here and I don't use that word >towards others here. I have debunked rumors that go around but I don't call >the person posting them liars or dishonest - I attribute the dishonesty of >certain things that are published to political machines, so to speak. Once >someone knows something is proven wrong and they continue to post it over >and over, I still haven't called them dishonest. I have never called >someone stupid or a bleeding heart (a term I have always found to be >offensive). > > > liberals(as if that were an insult, unpatriotic, terrorist sympathisers, > > and lord knows what else. > > I have referred to "leftists" and tried to distinquish between "liberals" >which I think is a different category. Republicans are routinely called all >kinds of things here if you haven't noticed. Never called anyone >unpatriotic or a terrorist sympathizer (I consider those to be generally >stupid remarks to come back with in a political debate). Will agree there >are people out there who voted for Bush who have used those terms, but I >have not. I do not think people who dissent are either of those things, >unless they would show me their card membership in Al Queda or another known >terror group. I don't think you might know that a lot of Republicans and >Libertarians are all for freedom of speech, even some of the most offesive, >because if and when the shoe is on the other foot (the opposing party is in >power) they sure want to be able to speak their own dissent. > > >Or they play the passive agressivve innncent > > and get all 'upset' instead of owning their own shit and being honest. > > This is where I think you go way over the line - the name-calling, the >putdowns. > Never have I name called and didn't here. > I >seriously try not to be offensive but sometimes when speaking one's mind >nothing one can do in the way of delivery is going to make everyone else >happy. > maybe you should consider than before you accuse others ..... > > > > I don't mean to write innuendoes or personal stuff towards people, > email can be very difficult. > > Excellent point and I'm glad you made it. > > Kakki > > My interpretation of this email of yours is that you understand that I hold nothing against you personally. at elast i hope so. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:34:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: battling terrorism - NJC PC Kate wrote: > you WATCHED... I WATCHED... far far away from the reality of those attacks > just as you now sit so far far away from the reality of the consequences of > this war... kakki neither you nor I have any idea what it was like that day > in NYC or days following on the east coast Many people have some idea because they have empathy. I can't forget the horror of it to this day and will not forget it in my lifetime. > No kakki you don't cry hurt or bleed as much as others who lost their loved > ones in 9/11 or those who are in iraq or who have loved ones in iraq... it > is appalling to attempt to equate yourself, however tangentially, to anyone > who has actually EXPERIENCED LOSS due these circumstances... I never said or meant to say I have equal pain and suffering as those who were directly attacked on 9/11. You are extrapolating from what I wrote and then saying you are appalled by something I never meant to indicate. I have two family members who work in the Pentagon and were there when it was attacked. I live 2 blocks and work 1 block from the building that was one of the targets in Al Queda's original plans. In the early 80s I worked in the defense industry and was privy to near daily threats by middle eastern terrorist organizations against our offices in the L.A. area. I have talked with people who are connected with Homeland Security, working in one agency or another, who tell me that we cannot imagine how serious the threat continues to be against us but how many are working around the clock behind the scenes to protect us. So I do have the right to say that the threat is serious and I will again cry and be devastated if another attack against us anywhere is successful. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:13:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC talkin' & squawkin' on the jmdl LONG [was Stop the Bleeding] Debra, I wrote: > > The fact that you don't even acknowledge that others with opposing > > viewpoints have been jumped on and slammed here says a lot. You wrote: > "Says a lot"? Zinger #1, huh? After much thought, I must admit to throwing zingers, because that trait runs on my Irish side of the family. I think I don't realize I'm doing them sometimes, maybe because it's a kind of a familial trait that just comes out. However, in this instance my intent was not to zing, but to mean that if you don't remember others who have been jumped on and slammed, it leads me think that those incidents were irrelevant to you. Out of respect for others' privacy, I do not want to cite the names of people who are no longer here or who lurk, I have indicated in my last post to Colin an idea of who I am referring to. > > I guess that is because you think you are so right about everything that > > incendiary comments are just righteous anger. > > Again, that "you think you're so right about everything" (oooooh, > another zinger!) attitude is not limited to one side, although you do > appear polite on the surface and just sneak the barbs in. Again, I meant this as an honest guess and not a sneaky, smart ass barb, but in retrospect it was poorly and offensively said. > From my point of view, it seems that if people > don't respond to you enough, you come out with something way off base > (such as Bush asking to go to Vietnam) and you get plenty of reaction, > much of it negative, and then you feel picked upon, and start > complaining about everyone else's behavior. So I try to post links to articles that I believe evidence what I put forth so as not to be called a liar or living in an unreal world or whatever, but then when I do the links are not read! In this case, I read a few recently published articles from some lead military superior of Bush's (can't remember his name or title) when he was in the Guard in Texas. He stated flat out that Bush asked to go to Vietnam at some point and was turned down because he did not have the sufficient training and was trained on an aircraft that was being phased out and not used. I can't find the articles right now because I don't remember the name to search on. However, here's an old article from the Wash Post from back in 1999 where Bush's record was again examined http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm that is not exactly on point but is close. The article, by the way, is not what I would call a complimentary, pro spin job on Bush so it might be viewed as somewhat unbiased. You might dismiss it because it is coming from Bush himself but it conforms, 4 years later, with what his superior recently said about the subject. Here is a portion from that article: "Had my unit been called up, I'd have gone . . . to Vietnam," Bush said. "I was prepared to go." But there was no chance Bush's unit would be ordered overseas. Bush says that toward the end of his training in 1970, he tried to volunteer for overseas duty, asking a commander to put his name on the list for a "Palace Alert" program, which dispatched qualified F-102 pilots in the Guard to the Europe and the Far East, occasionally to Vietnam, on three- to six-month assignments. He was turned down on the spot. "I did [ask] - and I was told, 'You're not going,' " Bush said. Only pilots with extensive flying time - at the outset, 1,000 hours were required - were sent overseas under the voluntary program. The Air Force, moreover, was retiring the aging F-102s and had ordered all overseas F-102 units closed down as of June 30, 1970. > Yes, that's all you ever see! That's what I'm fussing about. Right away > you label whatever anyone else says as "opinions, conjecture, theories, > feelings" (and SOME of it is, but not ALL of it), and you always claim > to have the facts, as though only you have the truth, and your view is > NEVER mere opinion, conjecture, theories or feelings. Whooo hooo! Wrong! No, of course my views are sometimes opinions, theories, etc., and I don't label EVERYTHING people say as that. I'm thinking of more specific items that are clearly theoretical and opinions that are repeated over and over as if they are true. Some of these items are really slanderous and sometimes off the chart (right wing fundamentalists seeking fulfillment of bible prophecy as one example) - in my opinion, yes, but some things are really unreasonable. > Paul Bremer's remarks? Condi Rice's recent remarks that are exactly > opposite the conclusion in two government reports? Many facts are put > out here by different people and you completely ignore them, all the > while acting like you're the only open-minded person here. I haven't seen Bremer's or Rice's remarks discussed here yet nor the contents of recently released reports. That would be a good factual basis to start a discussion with. > Great. Thanks, Kakki. Except I'm not interested in psychoanalyzing and > wasn't doing that. I was looking at behavior, over time, and seeing > patterns. I don't have a clue about, or any interest in figuring out, > the motives for that behavior. I actually was thinking this weekend of a reason why maybe the Bush supporters are not seen as, or are not very critical of him and kind of came up with a "psychological" theory. The other side is doing enough criticism for both sides! I don't mean this as a zinger. Think about it - if one group is doing all the heavy lifting, so to speak, the other group will tend to sit back. Also, I think a lot of his supporters feel sorry for him that he has been barraged with a lot of mean and unfair (versus fair) criticism during a time that certainly has been stressful and no picnic for him and just figure, why pile on and add to it all? We don't want him to have a nervous or medical breakdown at this point in world affairs. Again, this is not a zinger but my honest thoughts on the psychology behind a lot of it. > Really? Your statement came across completely differently, as a complete > dismissal of the experience of anyone who doesn't agree with you about > supporting Bush. I think everyone in the U.S. and the world sees how > serious the threat is, not just Bush supporters. All I can say here is to repeat what I said before: > > Why is it so difficult to understand that people like me and others think > > that changing the focus or trying to diminsh the terror threat by saying it > > is all Bush's fault, a scheme by a cabal of PNACers, an oil industry > > conspiracy, and the other conspiracies that dominate the discussion in some > > quarters, indicates to some of us that the focus is really not on the actual > > terrorist groups who are out to harm us? Why is that so difficult to > > consider? Why is that considered an insult from me? It is an honest and > > substantive question. If people think, for eaxmple, it's all about oil, that indicates to me that those people are dismissive of the terrorist threat, or at least it is not their main focus on the problem. To me the main, primary problem is with terrorist groups who have attacked and killed us for over 25 years. Prior attacks were not in our country and did not kill as many people as 9/11 but these people have always been at war with us. > So you think you've started from a fact, and I see it as you starting > And, as always, Lord (and everyone else) knows I'm not perfect myself, > and no one else is either. However, when there's a continuing pattern of > the same reaction from lots of different people, and someone (in this > case you, Kakki) is confused and hurt by that, then it's something to be > looked at closely, I think. I hope this answers some of your questions. Some of these discussions have gone farther afield of what my original comments were meant to imply and it is interpreted as me being upsets on attacks on me. That is really not where I am coming from here, unless maybe all the attacks were meant for me and I'm just not getting it. My larger observation is towards others, not just me, who have been treated poorly for their political comments and also for long ongoing threads about "why I hate Republicans" (that one from a few years ago) or the "Fascist" threads. I think those kind of threads creates a hostile environment for a whole lot of people, not just me. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:34:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: battling terrorism - NJC PC Kate wrote: > you WATCHED... I WATCHED... far far away from the reality of those attacks > just as you now sit so far far away from the reality of the consequences of > this war... kakki neither you nor I have any idea what it was like that day > in NYC or days following on the east coast Many people have some idea because they have empathy. I can't forget the horror of it to this day and will not forget it in my lifetime. > No kakki you don't cry hurt or bleed as much as others who lost their loved > ones in 9/11 or those who are in iraq or who have loved ones in iraq... it > is appalling to attempt to equate yourself, however tangentially, to anyone > who has actually EXPERIENCED LOSS due these circumstances... I never said or meant to say I have equal pain and suffering as those who were directly attacked on 9/11. You are extrapolating from what I wrote and then saying you are appalled by something I never meant to indicate. I have two family members who work in the Pentagon and were there when it was attacked. I live 2 blocks and work 1 block from the building that was one of the targets in Al Queda's original plans. In the early 80s I worked in the defense industry and was privy to near daily threats by middle eastern terrorist organizations against our offices in the L.A. area. I have talked with people who are connected with Homeland Security, working in one agency or another, who tell me that we cannot imagine how serious the threat continues to be against us but how many are working around the clock behind the scenes to protect us. So I do have the right to say that the threat is serious and I will again cry and be devastated if another attack against us anywhere is successful. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:06:24 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni dream -- njc, pc Mags writes: << I can well imagine that one of Joni's dreams may be that her fans quit their petty pissing wars and focus on what matters in this world...no more weanie wagging okay? >> It's not only men who support and make war, Mags, so "weanie wagging" doesn't seem like a very appropriate term for what you're objecting to (unless I am reading this wrong). - --Smurf, not into bashing either gender over the mess we're in "Did somebody say "weanie wagging'? Where do I sign up?" - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:22:55 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: to kill or not to kill, njc Colin wrote: Like the hijackers of the planes that were used to floor theWTC. If it had been possible, of course those men should ahev been killed by the apssenger sor anyone on thsoe planes. Hi Colin, What about containment as another alternative if it had been possible? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:38:01 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: Re: joni dream -- njc, pc As I wrote to Smurph offlist, the intention of my post, using the term "weanie wagging" was not meant as gender specific terminology. That said, i can see how it would be perceived as such. My apologies for the muddy communication. I guess I'm feeling especially sensitive to things these days. I was expressing a wish that the petty sniping would stop and the list could take the focus away from who said what in what tone and so on... who's zingin' who. But then again, that sounds like i'm trying to tell everyone to not express their most passionate feelings and thoughts in these most sensitive, volatile times. That is not my intention at all, so the right thing to do here is to say Im sorry for my own lashing out . Trust me when I say .... I understand waging a war of words because it gets so damned frustrating not to. Exasperating in fact. Encore un fois, sorry for my post in the first place. fwiw, I suggest you read: Man's Will To Hurt by Joseph Kuypers, talk about timely food for thought. with all due respect, Mags. back to the land of lurkdom. Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: It's not only men who support and make war, Mags, so "weanie wagging" doesn't seem like a very appropriate term for what you're objecting to (unless I am reading this wrong). - --Smurf, not into bashing either gender over the mess we're in "Did somebody say "weanie wagging'? Where do I sign up?" - --Gov. Jim McGreevey when we think of beauty we often think of those things we cannot hold, the moments when we are loved, the distant rainbow, the sweet ordinariness of times when nothing exceptional happens, but we are aware of doors to other worlds, & the shaft of light drenches the now with unspeakable joy. rita gormley vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:28:39 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Vote for Change NJC Hi everyone, Actually, the Sundance simulcast will start at 6:30 pm with a documentary and then the actual show will start at 7pm. Happy viewing and taping!! Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:39:32 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Mellisa Ethridge has cancer njc Hi Vince, I heard about this and was very saddened by the news. She's a fighter though. She will fight this with everything she's got and then she will write a song about it to help someone else get through it. Sherelle Vince wrote: canceling her tour - she has breast cancer - check out the news at cnn.com pray for her Vince _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC Colin > It is really important that everyone really understand that attacking an > idea is NOT the same as making a perosnal attack. saying, as Kate did, > that she really can't understand how people still support Bush, is most > definately not the same as saying she thinks those that do are fucking > stupid! Kakki> Oh she did say something along those lines the other day and that's why it brought Bob S. out from over on the onlyjoni list. I said the former not the latter kakki... if you don't recall the specifics of the conversation I only ask that you either refresh yourself on the details if you want to comment on them rather than misrepresent what I said... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Stop the Bleeding - NJC PC Colin > It is really important that everyone really understand that attacking an > idea is NOT the same as making a perosnal attack. saying, as Kate did, > that she really can't understand how people still support Bush, is most > definately not the same as saying she thinks those that do are fucking > stupid! Kakki> Oh she did say something along those lines the other day and that's why it brought Bob S. out from over on the onlyjoni list. I said the former not the latter kakki... if you don't recall the specifics of the conversation I only ask that you either refresh yourself on the details if you want to comment on them rather than misrepresent what I said... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni dream -- njc, pc --- mags h wrote: > I was > expressing a wish that the petty sniping would stop > and the list could take the focus away from who said > what in what tone and so on... who's zingin' who. > But then again, that sounds like i'm trying to tell > everyone to not express their most passionate > feelings and thoughts in these most sensitive, > volatile times. That is not my intention at all, so > the right thing to do here is to say Im sorry for my > own lashing out . Trust me when I say .... I > understand waging a war of words because it gets so > damned frustrating not to. Exasperating in fact. > Mags, I echo your sentiments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's extremely unlikely anyone is going to talk anyone else into changing sides in matters of religion or politics, particularly if the other person is passionate about their beliefs. Everyone has a reason for believing what they do and these beliefs are so deeply engrained that they are inextricably linked to emotion. Language is generally inadequate to explain what comes from the core of one's being, and yet, that's all we have. If I say something to you, I may think I'm explaining myself perfectly well. If you don't understand what I'm saying, or misinterpret what I mean or think I'm saying, is it your fault for not understanding, or my fault for not explainly it properly? Words fail. I've been deleting the political posts for the most part but every now and then one slips past me. I hate seeing people fight over this stuff. It's so not worth it. Having said that, I rented Fahrenheit 9/11 last night but was barely half-an-hour into it, when the tape got stuck in the VCR and now I can't get it out. Is that a sign of some kind? Now the tape is overdue and the VCR is likely toast. This has happened before but I've always managed to get the tape out. I've tried every means possible but that sucker isn't budging. I think it's time I gave up VHS and got a DVD player. Do I owe the video store for the tape, or can I sue them to replace my VCR? Which one is defective, do you think? And I still haven't seen the damn film. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:14:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Mellisa Ethridge has cancer njc Yeah, I heard that on the news the other day so am glad Vince mentioned it here. I'll be praying for her too. --- Sherelle Smith wrote: > Hi Vince, > > I heard about this and was very saddened by the > news. She's a fighter > though. She will fight this with everything she's > got and then she will > write a song about it to help someone else get > through it. > > Sherelle > > Vince wrote: > > canceling her tour - she has breast cancer - check > out the news at cnn.com > > pray for her > > Vince > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Sire Of Criticism (Britney's Sad Song) now njc I think Very funny, Nuriel/Britney. By the way, did you really get married this time, or is it another prank? --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > The Sire Of Criticism (Britney's Sad Song) > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Let me squick let me spit out my silliness > Bored by bliss and youth without pricks and weddings > in haste > Do you have ears? > Can you hear like pop-fans hear? > Why have you soured and curdled me? > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > Once I was blessed; I was awaited like Dion > Like brains for the moron, like credit-cards for > porn > Kids heard my words, and they sought out my MP3's > But now that Joni Mitchell dreamland bitch twists > her tongue at me > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > that you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism) > I've lost all taste for beer > She's all complaints > Tell me why do you hate my make up? > Why do you crucify my legs? > And you let the jmdl prosper > You let them JoniFest every year > And my fans are kids or babies, or they too dumb to > hear > (Antagonists: We don't despise your chastening > Joan is correcting you) > > Oh and look who comes to counsel my deep distress > Oh, these countless paparazies > What carelessness! > (Antagonists: Oh all those short skirts all those > clips > Filling her ears with trash) > Breathtaking ignorance adding cash to my bank > acount! > She comes blaming and shaming > (Antagonists: Evil doer) > And shattering moi > (Antagonists: This vain pop-star wishes to seem wise > A girl born of producers) > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > (Antagonists: We don't despise your chastening) > Already at the charts with zillion hits > And still you torture me with your interviews > You give me Aguilera dreams! > Better I was carried from MTV straight to VH1 > I see your fans waiting, they're yawning at my > number one's > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism > Sure as the sparks ascend) > Where is dope while you're wondering what went > wrong? > Who gave you the permission to quate my name in that > TTT song ? > (Antagonists: Stupidity is sweet in your mouth > Hiding under your dress) > Show your face! > (Antagonists: What a mind filled with space) > Help me understand! > What is the reason for your heavy hand? > (Antagonists: You're kissing with Madonna > You have bad name now) > Was it the Micky Mouse show? > What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > (Antagonists: Oh your bad taste must weigh so > greatly) > Everything I sing and everything I do seems poo > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism) > Oh you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo > > > SORRY EVRYONE... > > Nuriel > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:38:07 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Moist Towlettes -- NJC That's our Smurph, always thinking of others. Thanks so much for thinking of an idea to help us when we get that "not so fresh feeling". And I think Colin's idea of having her face on them is a good one myself! db >>> 10/9/2004 8:24:39 PM >>> I think Joni has been marketed all wrong lately. She would have much more money, fame, and appreciation, in my opinion, if instead of new compilations of old material, she sold Joni Mitchell Moist Towelettes. Think about it. Joni Mitchell Moist Towelettes would be a wonderful way for us fans to instantly freshen up, right? And once word got out about this terrific brand new product, everyone we know would be buying Joni MItchell Moist Towelettes for us acknowledged Joni fans as "joke" gifts -- so new Joni Mitchell Moist Towelettes would sell well right off the bat. But here's where the real major league noggin work in this idea comes in: whenever potential new Joni fans use new Joni Mitchell Moist Towelettes, along with a quick and refreshing clean up, they'll get a not-so-subliminal reminder to check out Joni's music. Always thinkin', - --Smurf "I could really go for that Smurf guy if he was, like, eighteen to twenty-one years old, drop-dead gorgeous and hung like a prisoner." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:08:19 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: happy birthday roberto holliston, october 11 - NJC piano man extraordinaire, new york aficionado and one of the greatest gifts the joni list has given me. i hope for all the best for you today, and always. patrick np - diana ross, no one gets the prize "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:11:50 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Joni Collectors & Sam Phillips Went to the Austin Record Covention the other day and like usual came across a few Joni things that though I have copies of others might be interested in. Though I did not purchase anything this weekend just wondering if people are at all interested and will make the offer in the future of picking things up without any extra cost to the individual you only pay what it cost me and shipping. Things this weekend: Night Ride Home (Special Packaging) $10.00 Help Me 45 (Spanish release) Two other 45's (Portugal and Spanish Releases) Again I enjoy looking through these albums, 45's cd's and other things so if you are the least bit interested let me know and I will post these things in the future. Craig Also, Sam Phillips at the Cactus Cafe was great, if you get a chance to catch her on this tour I highly recommend it. NP: Joseph Arthur - In The Sun ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:11:24 -0400 From: vince Subject: the election (njc) An op-en in today's NY Times, by Mark Roche, Dean of the College of Arts and Letters at Notre Dame, includes these paragraphs - "Second, politics is the art of the possible. During the eight years of the Reagan presidency, the number of legal abortions increased by more than 5 percent; during the eight years of the Clinton presidency, the number dropped by 36 percent. The overall abortion rate (calculated as the number of abortions per 1,000 women between the ages of 15 and 44) was more or less stable during the Reagan years, but during the Clinton presidency it dropped by 11 percent. There are many reasons for this shift. Yet surely the traditional Democratic concern with the social safety net makes it easier for pregnant women to make responsible decisions and for young life to flourish; among the most economically disadvantaged, abortion rates have always been and remain the highest. The world's lowest abortion rates are in Belgium and the Netherlands, where abortion is legal but where the welfare state is strong. Latin America, where almost all abortions are illegal, has one of the highest rates in the world." http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/opinion/11roche.html?th ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:39:52 -0400 From: dsk Subject: NJC tape vs. DVD (was joni dream) Catherine McKay wrote: > > Having said that, I rented Fahrenheit 9/11 last night > but was barely half-an-hour into it, when the tape got > stuck in the VCR and now I can't get it out. Is that a > sign of some kind? Just that it's been in lots of different machines and watched by lots of different people in the short time it's been out. Great film! Too bad all those Canadian viewers can't vote in the U.S. election. > Now the tape is overdue and the VCR > is likely toast. This has happened before but I've > always managed to get the tape out. I've tried every > means possible but that sucker isn't budging. I think > it's time I gave up VHS and got a DVD player. Do I owe > the video store for the tape, or can I sue them to > replace my VCR? Probably not. The one time a rented tape got stuck in my VCR I had to take the whole machine and leave it at Blockbuster and wait for their expert tape extricator to visit that store and fix it. He was a busy guy so it a three-week wait to get my machine back. There wasn't a charge for the tape and I think they even gave me credit for it since I hadn't seen the whole thing. I expect any rental store would have a similar policy. > Which one is defective, do you think? I say the tape, because that's the only thing the store can do anything about. > And I still haven't seen the damn film. Before spending any more money on tapes, go to the store and get a DVD player. You'll never want to play a tape again. The DVD image is clearer, it's easy to pause without wearing out the spot, you can easily find whatever you want to look at again, and there's usually extra info on them. I've rented some DVDs that skip and don't play well because they're all scratched up, but at least they never get stuck in the machine, and I take them back to the store and get a credit (or a duplicate DVD if one's available). Now the price of DVDs is so low and the price of renting keeps going up so I often just buy any film I really like, such as Fahrenheit 9/11. Think I'll get an extra copy of that one for any Republican I may run into who hasn't seen it yet. :-) Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:55:09 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Peace Train njc I know PA is always a swing state. I need to do what you said...there are too many Bush signs around here for my comfort!!!!!!!!!!!! nikki > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Marianne Rizzo > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:26 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Peace Train njc > > > Patti wrote: > >Maybe we still can. Come, join the Peace Train -- it's not so far from > >you. > > Full steam ahead, Kerry/Edwards!!! > > ______________ > > I'm on the train. . > I believe in the train. . > now c'mon folks. . if you know anyone who lives in any of those > swing states > . . give them a call and make sure they are registered to vote! > > I think in NY the registration deadline is Friday Oct. 8th. > > Is this the deadline country wide? > > Those of you who live in the swing states. . get out your address > book and > start making phone calls. . better yet. . deliver the > registration forms to > your friend's houses. . > Better yet, stay there and fill them out with them and mail them. > > C'mon. . everybody go though your address books and call your > long distance > friends . .this week. . today . .if you haven't done so already. > > Don't forget about the your people who just turned 18. Who knows, heaven > forbid, they may be drafted. . so they better excercise their > right to vote. > . . > > Let's do it. Get on the train, if your not on already. > > Could anyone provide a list of these states? > > Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:55:08 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests Although I unfortunately missed this year's fest at the last minuite and enjoyed the Full Moon's scenery and beuaty (and I did enjoy the healthy food :-) It would also be nice to see other parts of the country. I have to go along with Hell on this one...if I put it together we may be out in a bus station somewhere...lol! I am working full time to pay the bills and then teaching dance 3-4 hours a day at a Community Center. Actually having a day off over here - a rare thing for sure! Enjoying checking in with the list... Happy b-day John! Nikki -----Original Message----- From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com [mailto:AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 11:28 AM To: joni@smoe.org; NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Subject: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests Hi Everyone, I know there has been a lot of talk around moving Fest to a different location in the country, specifically mid-west or west coast. Is there anyone that is willing to pick up the ball and put this together so it will actually happen? I know there are many people that would like to see Jonifest continue. If it doesn't pan out for another venue, there is the possibility of having Fest back at Full Moon around April of 2006. Since we have already been there several years, it would be very easy to put this together, and I would be willing to get back on board with this since I will have had a good long rest in between. Also, because it would be off-season, the price would most likely be considerably less. For those of you that would even consider going to another Jonifest, please e-mail me back with the following: 1) Do you prefer Jonifest back at Full Moon, or another place in the country? (Also indicate no preference if that is the case.) 2) Would you be willing to be in charge of putting together a Jonifest in another location and making it happen? 3) What are the most important factors in attending Jonifest for you? (Price, location transportation, etc.) Thanks and hugs, Ashara Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:36:43 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: happy birthday roberto holliston, october 11 - NJC Happy Birthday sweet, gentle Roberto. We missed you so much at fest this year. Hope you have a wonderful B-day!! Love Donna >>> "patrick leader" 10/11/2004 11:08:19 AM >>> piano man extraordinaire, new york aficionado and one of the greatest gifts the joni list has given me. i hope for all the best for you today, and always. patrick np - diana ross, no one gets the prize "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: The Sire Of Criticism (Britney's Sad Song) now... I think Prank? No, no, nooooooooo.... This year is me and my man's 12th year of togetherness. When we first met i was 24, and Haggai (my husabnd) was 22. By now i hope everybody's understood that i'm NOT a woman. Hope nobody minds a silly gay like me talking of his relationship as being married. And yes, i totally hate my mother in law, and was very surprised when kind listers actualy started recommending country albums to me! I guess she's sooooooo Evil that even folks who don't know her wanted to help me driving her to suicide:)))) OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH - I've suddenly recalled that SHE gave me a country album a couple of years ago!!!!!!! I totally forgot about it!!!!!! Wow - that bitch should've won that prize, cause she's found out that "country music driving people to suicide"'s secret long before those guys did. THANK GOD i never played that album! Help me, Catherine - what's the best way to get rid of a mother in law who's immuned to country music? Nuriel Catherine McKay wrote: Very funny, Nuriel/Britney. By the way, did you really get married this time, or is it another prank? - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > The Sire Of Criticism (Britney's Sad Song) > - ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Let me squick let me spit out my silliness > Bored by bliss and youth without pricks and weddings > in haste > Do you have ears? > Can you hear like pop-fans hear? > Why have you soured and curdled me? > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > Once I was blessed; I was awaited like Dion > Like brains for the moron, like credit-cards for > porn > Kids heard my words, and they sought out my MP3's > But now that Joni Mitchell dreamland bitch twists > her tongue at me > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > that you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism) > I've lost all taste for beer > She's all complaints > Tell me why do you hate my make up? > Why do you crucify my legs? > And you let the jmdl prosper > You let them JoniFest every year > And my fans are kids or babies, or they too dumb to > hear > (Antagonists: We don't despise your chastening > Joan is correcting you) > > Oh and look who comes to counsel my deep distress > Oh, these countless paparazies > What carelessness! > (Antagonists: Oh all those short skirts all those > clips > Filling her ears with trash) > Breathtaking ignorance adding cash to my bank > acount! > She comes blaming and shaming > (Antagonists: Evil doer) > And shattering moi > (Antagonists: This vain pop-star wishes to seem wise > A girl born of producers) > Oh you tireless woman! What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > > (Antagonists: We don't despise your chastening) > Already at the charts with zillion hits > And still you torture me with your interviews > You give me Aguilera dreams! > Better I was carried from MTV straight to VH1 > I see your fans waiting, they're yawning at my > number one's > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism > Sure as the sparks ascend) > Where is dope while you're wondering what went > wrong? > Who gave you the permission to quate my name in that > TTT song ? > (Antagonists: Stupidity is sweet in your mouth > Hiding under your dress) > Show your face! > (Antagonists: What a mind filled with space) > Help me understand! > What is the reason for your heavy hand? > (Antagonists: You're kissing with Madonna > You have bad name now) > Was it the Micky Mouse show? > What have I done to you? > That you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo? > (Antagonists: Oh your bad taste must weigh so > greatly) > Everything I sing and everything I do seems poo > (Antagonists: Joni is the sire of criticism) > Oh you make everything I sing and everything I do > seem poo > > > SORRY EVRYONE... > > Nuriel > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #415 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)