From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #403 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 5 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 403 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: DJRD [Catherine McKay ] Re: Aliens, njc [Catherine McKay ] lyrics I "got" 30 years later, McCartney, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Future Jonifests ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: blue bloods, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: DJRD -- njc, cjn, jcn, ncj, jnc, njc, etc. [Smurfycopy@aol.com] NJC Re: Science vs Religion, njc NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [colin ] Re: NJC Re: Science vs Religion, njc NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Future Jonifests [colin ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc ["Martin Giles" ] NJC Re: Future Jonifests [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [Em ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: DJRD -- njc, cjn, jcn, ncj, jnc, njc, etc. [Catherine McKay ] Re: Our Kids & Joni ["janine sherman" ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc or from God to Dog in very few steps [Cather] dog Science vs Religion, njc [vince ] RE: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests ["Kate Bennett" ] njc remembering Janis [vince ] Today's Library Links: October 5 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:47:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DJRD The missing part from my post, and one that has driven me nuts all day (it's true - I have no life!) is that it may have looked like I was saying bass is percussion and rhythm and nothing more. Completely not true and it's so obvious when you listen to Jaco - better yet, get the S&L video, and watch him! It makes me want to run out and buy myself a fretless bass! --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > ...And don't forget that lovely moment on "Talk To > Me" where Joni goes chicken and Jaco echoes her... > > Nuri > > Catherine McKay wrote: > I think the guitar, and in particular the bass > guitar, > is a percussion instrument just as much as a > plucked/stringed/melodic one. The bass guitar drives > the beat and the rhythm. IMO the other instruments > should follow the bass and not the other way around, > the same way you would let a drummer set the beat. > It > helps if the bass player and the drummer have a good > sense of rhythm. ;-) > ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:49:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Aliens, njc --- Laurent Olszer wrote: > > Actually trying to change someone's opinion is > futile 99.99% of the time. So > for now I remain either optimistic or stupid. > Next I'll turn into a hermit and make a vow of > silence. > Laurent, you're not stupid at all. This is very thought-provoking stuff and even if I haven't joined in, until now that is, I've enjoyed reading it. Faith isn't something that can be explained to anyone and I don't think it should be. You're very fortunate to have it. Please don't stay silent. I love all of you (even Smurf.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:38:43 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: lyrics I "got" 30 years later, McCartney, njc > I figured out that "Back in the USSR" was a send up of the Beach Boys' song "California Girls". > > Lama > Hi Jim I always thought it was based after "Back in the USA" by Chuck Berry, who himself has been more than covered by the Beach Boys. Incidentally, I got the McCartney in Red Square bootleg dvd, taken from the A&E broadcast. The whole program is fantastic: seeing what the Beatles meant in Russia as a symbol of the West and freedom. Even Vlad Putin shows up unexpectedly at the show and dances between 2 bodyguards. Unbelievable. (Which by the way proves that one can still love the Beatles and kill Chechens too) Of course the highlight is Paul singing Back in the USSR in the same spot that saw endless military parades. Brings tears of joy. Highly recommended. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:41:05 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: heartening day at the library NJC PC I work at a public library, and I helped a LOT of people register to vote today. I don't remember anyone registering at the library in 1996 or 2000, despite all our flyers and posters and handouts. After years of apathy it's so great to see this interest. Who they eventually vote for isn't the point; it's the fact that people who have never registered have been inspired to do so. (although I must say it's a Democratic town and I was helping a lot of folks whose demographics would suggest a Kerry vote). - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:23:32 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Future Jonifests Hi I've posted to you privately before that there's this place is SW France near Spain that would be ideal because it is THE "Back to the Garden" spot and also region. It would be very convenient from UK also because low-cost Ryan Air flies to Carcassonne. More details available upon request Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:52:20 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: blue bloods, njc Kate wrote: Dubya, jeb, rummy, cheney, wolfowitz, etc--- all cold evil aliens Hi Kate! LOLLLLL This reminds me, did anybody get the story about the "blue bloods" from the unique lady at the fest, John's mother? According to her, both Bush and Kerry have some of alien blue blood. Wild tales from another planet... what planet was she from I wonder? Who comes to the fests anyway? Betty was really from Fluto. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:59:01 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD -- njc, cjn, jcn, ncj, jnc, njc, etc. Catherine writes: << It makes me want to run out and buy myself a fretless bass! >> Are they more expensive than the ones that worry? - --Smurf "Hey, American Joe. Me so horney make love long tiiiiiiiime." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:02:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Science vs Religion, njc NJC **That there really are no 4 succinct races. Or 5? What are the 4? What are the 5? Em, you live in Florida and you don't know??? For your benefit, the important races are: 1. Charlotte World 600 2. Talladega 3. Bristol 4. Daytona 5. Indianapolis Bob, not a NASCAR Dad and knowing that you are talking about the OTHER race issue...has nobody spoken up for the Blue race? NP: Keb Mo, "Get Together" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:13:32 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Catherine McKay wrote: > >Dogs come in many different sizes and colours and they >don't seem to care one way or another - whether they >like or dislike another dog has nothing to do with >what breed another dog is, and they can interbreed, as >the mutts of the planet bear witness (although trying >to imagine a chihuahua/Great Dane mix is a bit of a >stretch!) > > > I know this was apart of a serious issue however.......dogs Do differentiate between breeds. Most definately. I cannot speak for all breeds obviously. However, from myexperience and that of others I have spoken to, dogs to react differently according to the breed. For an example, Gompa, my male Lhasa Apso, freaked out when he met Twiggy, the Chinese Crested, at Ring Craft. He also freaked at Edmund, the Bulldog. Black dogs of any breed tend to set other dogs off. (Embarrassingly dogs also tend to notice when people are a different colour. My Martha freaked when Mandy's little girl came into my house. Martha loves children but she ran away behind my legs and stood there growling upon seeing Kelsey. I lied to Mandy and just said Martha doesn't like children but Kelsey is black and Mandy her mother is white. This is quite a common behaviour in dogs and is not a taught one.) Large dogs tend to be frightened of small dogs. Male dogs tend to be afraid of puppies. It is very possible for small dogs to mate large bitches, thos not possible the other way around. Chihuahua/Dalmation crosses, Rottweiler/Dachshund crosses. Both dogs and bitches can be very creative when on heat. Mating thru chain link fenecing, climbing very tall fences, breaking thru doors. Large bitches will often lay down for small males. Slightly larger bitches will spread their back legs so their pelvis is lower for a male only a bit lower, and a male will often go up on tip toe or just jump in the air and hope his penis hits home. Once it has, the female clamps on and that is that. that , btw, is why a dog and bitch usually tie when they mate-the vagina clamps around the penis and it is the bitch who 'lets go' when she wants. A tie is not necessary for pregnancy to occur so it is not certain as to why the tie happens. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:14:08 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Science vs Religion, njc NJC Surprisingly, Mr Muller chimes in with: << has nobody spoken up for the Blue race? >> Thank you, Bob. You're a credit to the entire white race. - --Smurf "GWM, USA." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:14:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Future Jonifests Laurent Olszer wrote: >Hi > >It would be very convenient from UK also because low-cost Ryan Air flies to >Carcassonne. > > Carcassonne and surrounding area is indeed beautiful. We were there in 2003 and 2002. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:01:31 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Hi folks I've missed most of this thread (like I miss most of most threads, unfortunately). But I do have a question to put to anyone who cares to have a go at it. The question is this; How does saying God created everything explain anything? Inquiring minds want to know .. Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:22:46 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Future Jonifests In a message dated 10/4/2004 11:40:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AsharaProducLLC@aol.com writes: 1) Do you prefer Jonifest back at Full Moon, or another place in the country? (Also indicate no preference if that is the case.) 2) Would you be willing to be in charge of putting together a Jonifest in another location and making it happen? I'm with Michael in that I did not want to return to the Full Moon - I'd support one in another location as I have over the years. Question #2 is potentially a loaded question and depends on what "putting together a Jonifest" means. I think we need to look at what a Jonifest is by definition, what it should include and by the same token doesn't have to include and sort of reinvent it in the process. I'd love to show off Greenville, SC with a fest but it doesn't make a lot of sense given that I'm the ONLY JMDL'er here. Makes more sense to pick a locale that has many more natives and folks who can make the logistics work easily. Even with that being the case I'd be glad to help with whatever it is I could do. Jonifests rock and I'd love to see us keep the tradition going. Bob NP: Laura Love, "Aha Me A Riddle I Day" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:26:50 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Colin writes: << Large bitches will often lay down for small males. >> The talk here always seems to come back to Jonifest, doesn't it? - --Smurf "I'm about to lose control and I think I like it." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc I've seen a Shetland pony stallion "do" a regular sized mare. He "hopped" for sure. It was great! I was happy for them. And I bet the offspring was awesome, as he (the stud) was red with blond mane and tail and she was a palomino-ish type. Em - --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Colin writes: > > << Large bitches will often lay down for small males. >> > > > The talk here always seems to come back to Jonifest, doesn't it? > > --Smurf > > > "I'm about to lose control and I think I like it." > > --Gov. Jim McGreevey > ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:36:03 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc >That there really are no 4 succinct races. Or 5? >What are the 4? What are the 5? >Would be interested to know, if anyone wants to spell it out. Here's what my Physical Anthropology textbook says about the concept of "race.": "...There are numerous physical anthropologists who argue that race is a meaningless concept when applied to humans. Race is an outdated creation of the human mind that attempts to simplify biological complexity by organizing it into categories. Thus, human races are a product of the human tendency to superimpose order on complex natural phenomena. While classification may have been an acceptable approach 150 years ago, it is no longer valid given the current state of genetic and evolutionary science." "There is a widespread perception that there is an association between certain physical traits (skin color, in particular) and numerous cultural attributes (such as language, occupational preferences, or even morality). Therefore, in many cultural contexts, a person's social identity is strongly influenced by the manner in which he or she expresses those physical traits traditionally used to define 'racial groups'. Characteristics such as skin color are highly visible, and they facilitate an immediate and *superficial* designation of individuals into socially defined groups." "Human racial classification is of no social value and is positively destructive of social and human relations. Since such racial classification is now seen to be of virtually no genetic or taxonomic significance either, no justification can be offered for it's continuance." (Harvard population geneticist R.D. Lewontin, 1972)" - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:57:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DJRD -- njc, cjn, jcn, ncj, jnc, njc, etc. --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << It makes me want to run out and buy myself a > fretless bass! >> > > > Are they more expensive than the ones that worry? > > --Smurf > Much cheaper because you don't need to buy them any drugs. (.).....) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:04:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc --- Martin Giles wrote: > Hi folks > > I've missed most of this thread (like I miss most of > most threads, > unfortunately). But I do have a question to put to > anyone who cares to have > a go at it. The question is this; > > How does saying God created everything explain > anything? Inquiring minds > want to know .. > > Martin. This reminds me of an argument I had with some Jesus-people when I was in university. I allowed myself to be sucked into conversation with them, because every now and then I just like to argue with people, just for the fun of it, and I hadn't seen my brother for a while, and I hadn't met Smurf yet. They were trying to convince me that everything in the Bible was true, so I asked them how they knew that. And they responded by saying that it was because God said so. So I asked them how they knew that God said so. And they replied that it was in the Bible. Jesus H. Christ. I suppose that makes things a lot simpler for some people, but it doesn't explain a thing. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:05:40 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Re: Our Kids & Joni Hi Janine et al: > > Clearly you raised your daughter well: that she would KNOW that a Joni > commercial on London TV DEFINITELY merits a long-distance phone call home to > Mom! Sweet! > I think boys are a little different, though. My sons are jokesters. My > twenty-something son Chris stopped by last Saturday night....I was have my > own private Joni-fest going, with all the house lights turned up bright, and > all the windows open as it was a balmy evening. I think at that moment FTR > was playing. He came in and said: "You'd better turn that down or you'll > have all the dogs in the neighborhood howling." > > Brat! Now how do you respond to THAT? I took a deep breath and the high > road, ignored the barb, summoned all my Joni-grace, smiled sweetly, and > said: "Well, I knew you were coming, so I wanted to have some quality, > soul-enriching music on for you in case you ever venture out into cultured > society." > > I love it when our kids acknowledge (in any way) our passion for la Joan! > At least they have heard something we've tried to say. > > Peace, > Patti P.S. Gotcha, Chris! I TOLD you I was going to report you to the Joni Police! Now Paz will never get you Jack Nielson's autograph. Hi Patti, Thanks for the response and your sharing! Your son's comment sounds just like my husband. He admits her musical genius and loved hearing Jonifesters sing her music (is that one of HERS?), but he can not tolerate her voice for long. I just tell him to 'get over' Stevie Nicks, but Stevie IS still writing and performing in that sultry voice..... I digress. In honor of my daughter's call, I decided to go right to Amazon and buy Dreamland. I ended up buying it and The Beginning of Survival as a set at a lower total price. So I guess the advertising worked, albeit 'round Robin Hood's barn. NP: Move On: Heart Janine P.S. I just received notification that the big "Move On" concert scheduled for MCI Center next Monday night will be televised LIVE on the Sundance Channel (kudos R Redford). So we'll all get to see and hear what Bob M. is seeing in Cleveland. How was it? was Jackson Brown "over" Joni? hehe BROOOOOOOCE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:11:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc or from God to Dog in very few steps --- colin wrote: > It is very possible for small dogs to mate large > bitches, thos not > possible the other way around. etc. Wow! Everything you wanted to know (or not!) about dog sex, but were afraid to ask! You've also blown my whole dogs and "race" theory to hell. Thanks a lot! A dog we had when I was a kid used to bark at men in uniforms and/or dark suits, and he bit the postman once, but I thought it was the fact of his being male that brought that on. I thought dogs cared more about smell than looks, apparently the stinkier, the better. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:14:44 -0400 From: vince Subject: dog Science vs Religion, njc colin wrote: > >dogs Do >differentiate between breeds. Most definately. > Yes, they do. My Samoyeds have always known the difference between Sammies and non Sammies. In all my experience dogs know their own kind. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:21:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests My 2 cents though I am not able to help be in charge due to my dual(dueling?) careers these days. however I know it would be much more feasible for us & perhaps others in the west if the fest moved towards this direction. the ideas of new mexico, arizona & colorado all sound good to me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:49:14 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Science vs Religion, njc Catherine wrote: > This is something that absolutely floors me - that > people even bother to try to put humans into a set > number of "races." How could anyone say that all black > people are the same, for example? If you've seen an > Ethiopian or a Somali, you would never think they > belonged to the same "race", whatever that even means, > as someone from the Congo, for example. You might get > somewhere by trying to put people into various > "ethnic" groups, but even that doesn't necessarily > work. I suppose there are certain physical > characteristics that people from certain regions might > have - but maybe that's more because people from > smaller regions with little contact with outsiders are > more likely to have a smaller gene pool to choose > from, and are therefore more likely to look more > alike. DISCLAIMER: This is all my opinion - collected from information I've read and think of as fact, but that doesn't make it so! I think that the idea of "race" was far more relevant before we gained the ability to travel easily around the world, and between countries and continents. With so many "mixed couplings" (for want of a better term - although I wish I had one!) the lines have become very blurred, and in some areas there are very few "pure-blooded" individuals of that particular race left. But before we became "world-travellers", the differences between races probably would have been more obvious to an outside observer (an alien? - no, I won't go there)! And I've never thought of "race" as being solely based on skin colour, or language - to me, it's more about geography than anything else. Many of the things we use to define a particular race are adaptations that have occurred over time in response to environmental conditions - and nothing we can or could have any control over (which is why it's so silly to discriminate on that basis). For example, skin colour (an adaptation to strong sunlight - more melanin in the skin to guard against damage), eye-shape (so-called "hooded" or "asian" eyes - again, to protect from sunlight), etc. > Dogs come in many different sizes and colours and they > don't seem to care one way or another - whether they > like or dislike another dog has nothing to do with > what breed another dog is, and they can interbreed, as > the mutts of the planet bear witness (although trying > to imagine a chihuahua/Great Dane mix is a bit of a > stretch!) There's a big difference between "race" or "breed" (in the case of dogs) and species. Humans are all homo sapiens (the species), domestic dogs are all Canis "something" (I can't remember exactly - familiaris?) which allows them to reproduce. Only animals within the same species can reproduce successfully. (And before someone mentions the horse and donkey creating the mule - this doesn't produce a "successful" result, as a mule is sterile). In my understanding, the vast differences in breeds of dog came about through purposeful selection of specific traits: an unusually long-eared, short-legged dog crossed with another (and repeated over time) eventually gave us the basset hound. Similarly, repeated cross-breeding of large dogs gave us St. Bernards and Irish Wolfhounds. That's a very simple explanation and I'm certainly no dog-expert - I'll leave that to Colin! - but if there are breeds of dog that cannot reproduce (for more reasons than pure logisitics!) then it may be that they've been OVER-bred, creating a new (and different) species. That's how natural selection works - we've just helped it along a little in this case! Like I said, this is all information I've read or studied, and accepted as fact, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything! Hell ____________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:16:36 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc remembering Janis Janis Joplin died 34 years ago October 4, 1970 damn, I miss her ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 02:01:38 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 5 On October 5 the following articles were published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - People (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=241 2002: "This is Yorkville's last stand" - Toronto Star (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=934 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #403 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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