From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #402 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 4 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 402 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Science vs Religion, njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Aliens, njc [colin ] Re: Aliens, njc [colin ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [colin ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [colin ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc ["mike pritchard" ] DJRD ["Michael" ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [tantra_apso ] Re: DJRD [Catherine McKay ] Aliens, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [Em ] Re: DJRD [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: STOP THE BLEEDING .. VOTE FOR KERRY ["Steven Polifka" ] science, religion. . fractiles. .njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] canada.com Story [briangross@rocketmail.com] Future Jonifests [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: Future Jonifests ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: Over the Rainbow - NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests [Michaelpaz@aol.com] Re: Science vs Religion, njc ["Kakki" ] 6 feet under njc [Doug Boudreau ] Re: What a show!!! NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [Jerry Notaro ] Our Kids & Joni ["Patti Parlette" ] vote for Kerry ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Future Jonifests (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Re: Future Jonifests (NJC) [Em ] (NJC) Delete key gone wild [Lori Fye ] Re: Science vs Religion, njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:24:42 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Wow Mark - what a great post! I especially like this: > But since we are each a small piece of the whole, we are driven to seek answers and like Grace Slick once wrote, > there are things I've never seen that I believe. So we write, we paint, we read, we make music, we > pray, we commune with and try to understand one another, trying to bring order, trying to make > sense, trying to understand ourselves. > Mark E. in Seattle > still experiencing some pain in the right side of his ass - which some of you might see as a kind of > poetic justice. Ha! No, that sounds just terrible! Hope it goes away soon. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:48:17 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Aliens, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: > There lies root of all evil-look at the conflicts in this world-one > side trying to 'convince' the other that their idea is Truth. It takes > a man( and a woman) to accept that their ideas are just that-ideas. > > Colin, > > I believe this is the same conclusion you always reach whenever we're > having an exchange of opinions. > I mean what I say so I back up my arguments. I know you do but backing up arguments is about backing them upo with facts. In a discussion such as this, one cannot do this. It is an excahnge of ideas only so trying to convince anyone that our ideas are right is futile. It cannot be done, no matter how passionately we believe in ourselves. > You should know after 3 years on this list that I respect other > people's opinions. I didn;t suggest otherwise. > > Laurent > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:45:39 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Aliens, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: > > >> >> I'm just being logical with myself: if G_d exists (as Kakki's >> premise states) then I believe the Torah is His word. It follows >> that I know what He can do. > no it doesn't follow. What does follow is that you believe you know what She can do. there is a big difference. >> I know you believe it's a man-made book/religion, etc so we'll >> never agree on this one. >> >> Also there's a huge difference: I can't show you G_d, only His >> creation. But since the Earth has been "visited" for a long >> time, you could show me some alien proof and I'll believe. > no one, not me at any rate, has said that. >> >> Laurent > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:59:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Mark or Travis wrote: > >Do you ever wonder if anyone else perceives reality in quite the same way as you do? We can't get >inside of another person's head. What if I were to suddenly inhabit Kakki's consciousness and >discover that what is red to me is green to her? What if we are each of us a universe in and of >ourselves with our own individual realities? Or maybe you are all nothing more than elaborate >creations that I have chosen to populate my own particular illusion of life with and there is >nothing outside of what I perceive as real. I'm not saying that I believe any of this but my >thoughts run along such strange lines from time to time. > It is not strange at all. We DO each perceive reality differently. Not one of us experiences reality in exactly the same way as another. Although I have often thought, as you, that maybe everything is just a figment of my imagination, I haven't read another person putting this forward as a possibilty. To understadn nore fully how we are meaning creating creatures, how we cannot possibly be objective, how everything we perceive is filtered and altered by us and the emanings we create, i can recommend reading works by Dr Dorothy Rowe who explains it very well. > Like Judy Collins wrote, I sometimes feel >as if I'm imprisoned in my bones behind the isinglass windows of my eyes and I wonder sometimes if >my view is at all like anyone else's and if there is anyway of our truly comprehending one another's >thoughts and feelings. > no I don't think there is. but we can imagine and develop empathy. We may not be able to get inside people but we can surely see that they too feel and experience joy and pain. > >I agree with Laurent and Kakki that there is a spark that is necessary to create life and that it >requires something more than the right mix of chemicals under the right conditions to ignite. That >life essence leaves our bodies at death but it does not cease to exist. Another idea I have played >with in my head is that once we leave our physical bodies, we are free to go anywhere and to any >time that we want and experience anything that we desire. For instance, I could go back in time and >experience a real, live performance by Billie Holiday or witness some great historical event. I >suppose that kind of ties in with the idea of collective consciousness which is something else I >find intriguing. > > > I don't see why one couldn't do as you describe. Maybe tho we wouldn't wnat to. perhaps the possibilites of our existence after the death of our bodies will be so inspring that we will not wish to do somthing like that but rather find out more about the Mystery. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:03:13 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc mike pritchard wrote: >Kakki said > > >>>I have read some theories that the earth was "planted" to some degree from >>> >>> >visitors/colonizers from other planets/galaxies. Some theorize that the four >races came from four different extraterrestrial locations. Sounds plausible >to me.<< > >Hi Kakki >I haven't heard the 'planting' theory but am inclined to disbelieve it. As for >the 'four races' coming from 'four different extraterrestrial locations' I >have to say that everything I have read on this matter (and obviously I have >not read everything) suggests that there is in fact only one 'race', the human >race, and the four 'races' (or five, depending on who you read) are in fact >variations of the human race, much as Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French etc >are derived from Latin. > as far as I have always understoon, Spanish etc are just variations within the Caucasian race. Latest evedience suggests that all the races developed from the ehart of SAfrica and spread out and gentic diversity caused the differing looks. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:06:14 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc I was referring to these languages deriving from a common source, i.e. Latin. I was not referring to the Spanish 'race', as I do not believe in the idea of 'races' in the plural, only in the differences between human and animals etc. Sorry my analogy wasn't clear. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: colin To: mike pritchard Cc: list ; kakki ; Randy Remote Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc mike pritchard wrote: Kakki said I have read some theories that the earth was "planted" to some degree from visitors/colonizers from other planets/galaxies. Some theorize that the four races came from four different extraterrestrial locations. Sounds plausible to me.<< Hi Kakki I haven't heard the 'planting' theory but am inclined to disbelieve it. As for the 'four races' coming from 'four different extraterrestrial locations' I have to say that everything I have read on this matter (and obviously I have not read everything) suggests that there is in fact only one 'race', the human race, and the four 'races' (or five, depending on who you read) are in fact variations of the human race, much as Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French etc are derived from Latin. as far as I have always understoon, Spanish etc are just variations within the Caucasian race. Latest evedience suggests that all the races developed from the ehart of SAfrica and spread out and gentic diversity caused the differing looks. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:40:33 +1000 From: "Michael" Subject: DJRD Hey Jim I hadn't really noticed that dialouge, but I am hearing it as I read your post and can see where you are coming from. Might have to have another Joni night, not that that will be difficult Cheers Michael Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:49:52 -0400 From: Subject: DJRD, 100% JC You probably already noticed that Joni slaps too. Joni does it alone on Overture. It becomes a real dialog on many other songs, especially the ones on MINGUS. If you play just "Overture", then immediately play the intro to "God Must Be A Boogie Man", you'll hear the dialog. Joni & Jaco "bark" at each other, like dogs, with slapping. I think it's very special. I love the collaborations on THOSL, DJRD, HEJIRA, and MINGUS most of all. (I love the ones on BLUE too but the jazz influenced era is in another league to my ears.) To me, this whole era is special although many on the list think HEJIRA stands above the others. All the best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:57:06 +0100 From: tantra_apso Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc mike pritchard wrote: >I was referring to these languages deriving from a common source, i.e. Latin. >I was not referring to the Spanish 'race', as I do not believe in the idea of >'races' in the plural, only in the differences between human and animals etc. >Sorry my analogy wasn't clear. > > You wrote: are in fact variations of the human race, much as Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French etc are derived from Latin. Your analogy was clear. I didn't read the above sentence of yours properly and therefore misunderstoond your intent. Sorry about that. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:13:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DJRD I think the guitar, and in particular the bass guitar, is a percussion instrument just as much as a plucked/stringed/melodic one. The bass guitar drives the beat and the rhythm. IMO the other instruments should follow the bass and not the other way around, the same way you would let a drummer set the beat. It helps if the bass player and the drummer have a good sense of rhythm. ;-) Michael, if you haven't seen the video version of the Shadows and Light tour, you really must. It's just fascinating watching Jaco perform - the man is all over the place. You'd almost think he was making this sh*t up as he goes along - I don't think he is, because I've heard audience recordings of the S&L tour and it's pretty much the same each night. There may be a small amount of improvisation on each performance, as the spirit moves him to carry it on a bit longer sometimes, but, if so, he's a master improviser. I've never played bass but, after watching Jaco go nuts with it, it looks like a lot of fun. --- Michael wrote: > Hey Jim > > I hadn't really noticed that dialouge, but I am > hearing it as I read your > post and can see where you are coming from. > > Might have to have another Joni night, not that that > will be difficult > > Cheers > Michael > > > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:49:52 -0400 > From: > Subject: DJRD, 100% JC > > You probably already noticed that Joni slaps too. > > Joni does it alone on Overture. It becomes a real > dialog on many other > songs, especially the ones on MINGUS. If you play > just "Overture", then > immediately play the intro to "God Must Be A Boogie > Man", you'll hear the > dialog. Joni & Jaco "bark" at each other, like > dogs, with slapping. I > think it's very special. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:28:28 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Aliens, njc I know you do but backing up arguments is about backing them upo with facts. In a discussion such as this, one cannot do this. It is an excahnge of ideas only so trying to convince anyone that our ideas are right is futile. It cannot be done, no matter how passionately we believe in ourselves. Hi Colin, Actually trying to change someone's opinion is futile 99.99% of the time. So for now I remain either optimistic or stupid. Next I'll turn into a hermit and make a vow of silence. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 04:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Hi Mike, was refreshed to hear that someone else was incredulous about this. That there really are no 4 succinct races. Or 5? What are the 4? What are the 5? Would be interested to know, if anyone wants to spell it out. I mean I realize probably what's meant are: very white people, very black people, asians and???? what can we call the other? ummm..Mediterranean types? I mean there are brownish people all over the earth...and they touch all the afore-mentioned groups. and how do you know which one you are? am I on the right track? Maybe the "4 races" are the 4 map "directions" as referred to by Joni on the recent KPFK interview, - north, south, east and west....and she spelled out the various attributes those people are *supposed* to have. (which me cai mas mal) So are we talking about geographical stuff or skin color or bone structure, or what? I think Hitler's cronies wrote quite extensively on this stuff. Anyway, I'm quite digging the mix. (of humans and of this list) And not ragging on this conversation either...just wish to have more light shown on the subject. :) Happy day! Em - --- mike pritchard wrote: > I haven't heard the 'planting' theory but am inclined to disbelieve > it. As for > the 'four races' coming from 'four different extraterrestrial > locations' I > have to say that everything I have read on this matter (and obviously > I have > not read everything) suggests that there is in fact only one 'race', > the human > race, and the four 'races' (or five, depending on who you read) are > in fact > variations of the human race, much as Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, > French etc > are derived from Latin. ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 05:10:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: DJRD ...And don't forget that lovely moment on "Talk To Me" where Joni goes chicken and Jaco echoes her... Nuri Catherine McKay wrote: I think the guitar, and in particular the bass guitar, is a percussion instrument just as much as a plucked/stringed/melodic one. The bass guitar drives the beat and the rhythm. IMO the other instruments should follow the bass and not the other way around, the same way you would let a drummer set the beat. It helps if the bass player and the drummer have a good sense of rhythm. ;-) Michael, if you haven't seen the video version of the Shadows and Light tour, you really must. It's just fascinating watching Jaco perform - the man is all over the place. You'd almost think he was making this sh*t up as he goes along - I don't think he is, because I've heard audience recordings of the S&L tour and it's pretty much the same each night. There may be a small amount of improvisation on each performance, as the spirit moves him to carry it on a bit longer sometimes, but, if so, he's a master improviser. I've never played bass but, after watching Jaco go nuts with it, it looks like a lot of fun. - --- Michael wrote: > Hey Jim > > I hadn't really noticed that dialouge, but I am > hearing it as I read your > post and can see where you are coming from. > > Might have to have another Joni night, not that that > will be difficult > > Cheers > Michael > > > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:49:52 -0400 > From: > Subject: DJRD, 100% JC > > You probably already noticed that Joni slaps too. > > Joni does it alone on Overture. It becomes a real > dialog on many other > songs, especially the ones on MINGUS. If you play > just "Overture", then > immediately play the intro to "God Must Be A Boogie > Man", you'll hear the > dialog. Joni & Jaco "bark" at each other, like > dogs, with slapping. I > think it's very special. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:47:41 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Stop the Bleeding - NJC Kate wrote, in reply to Fred's post: "after watching the debates it is hard for be to believe that anyone with any critical thinking skills would be able to say bush is their candidate- nobody is home! to me the only explanation would be blind party loyalty or extreme religious belief (the one that tells them bush is there because god put him there)... " Well, Kate, Bush is my candidate (not Kate Bush, George Bush) :-) I am not a blind Republican party loyalist (I vote regularly for our Democrat mayor, as do many Republicans in our town, and disagree with the Republican party on about half of the "social" and "economic" issues facing the nation). And, I have not been to church or temple in over 35 years (except out of respect for friends and family, at weddings, christenings, bar/bas mitzvahs, funerals, etc.). I realize that my reply taxes your credulity (if it does not, then I also realize that would imply that you do not believe that I have any critical thinking skills). I prefer to assume the former, for to assume the latter would cause me to feel insulted by your remarks. Fred's initial post - written without any hint of disrespect for other listers - did not run the risk of insulting anybody (although I confess to having been mildly irritated once again by the failure to us the NJC tag). Your reply did run that risk, and - because it also did not have the NJC tag - managed once again to reach an even wider audience of those who might be offended (namely, those who - like me - had subscribed to Joni-only to avoid having to deal with that type of veiled insult). I could asset that I find it hard to believe that anybody with any critical thinking skills or any manners would persist in making that error after all these years - but I prefer to assume that it was made once again in the heat of th e moment by a person who is passionate in her beliefs. Of course, I realize that I may be wrong in my assumptions. If so, I would be disappointed. Whether I am wrong or right, if you wish to reply to this, please use the NJC tag (and, if you want me to know your reply, please copy me directly, since I will not see it on the regular JMDL digest). Bob Sartorius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:48:12 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: STOP THE BLEEDING .. VOTE FOR KERRY I saw some great graffitti in the mens room at work last week. It read: Vote for Ecology- Plant a Bush back in Texas! (I think they were a Nader fan, but still fun nonetheless..) Steve >>> 10/02/04 02:50PM >>> I've been thinking about how best to help Kerry win, and this is what I've come up with. I know more than a few people who are registered to vote but are still on the fence for various reasons ... they don't necessarily want to vote for Bush but they're not crazy about Kerry, either (well, neither am I). They're clinging to the noble idea of voting "for" someone, a dangerous notion to hold when the wolf has already crashed through the door while you wait for a knight in shining armor. If every person who has already decided to vote for Kerry "adopts" just one person who is on the fence and helps to convince them to vote for Kerry, he'll win, we all win. If you can help sway two, or five people, all the better. Give them information, point them to web sites and articles, tell them to rent or buy Fahrenheit 9/11 next week, or even treat them to a rental. The analogy I've come up with for myself in answer to the undecided's reluctance to vote "against" Bush instead of "for" Kerry is that when there is profuse bleeding from a wound, the first thing to do is to apply a tourniquet ... before any healing can begin, we must stop the bleeding. In fact, that's my new slogan: STOP THE BLEEDING .. VOTE FOR KERRY Peace, Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:22:18 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: friends don't let friends vote for nader :~} njc We, the undersigned, were selected by Ralph Nader to be members of his 113-person national "Nader 2000 Citizens Committee." This year, we urge support for Kerry/Edwards in all swing states, even while we strongly disagree with Kerry's policies on Iraq and other issues. For people seeking progressive social change in the United States, removing George W. Bush from office should be the top priority in the 2004 presidential election. Progressive votes for John Kerry in swing states may prove decisive in attaining this vital goal. http://www.vote2stopbush.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:25:47 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Peace Train njc Patti wrote: >Maybe we still can. Come, join the Peace Train -- it's not so far from >you. > Full steam ahead, Kerry/Edwards!!! ______________ I'm on the train. . I believe in the train. . now c'mon folks. . if you know anyone who lives in any of those swing states . . give them a call and make sure they are registered to vote! I think in NY the registration deadline is Friday Oct. 8th. Is this the deadline country wide? Those of you who live in the swing states. . get out your address book and start making phone calls. . better yet. . deliver the registration forms to your friend's houses. . Better yet, stay there and fill them out with them and mail them. C'mon. . everybody go though your address books and call your long distance friends . .this week. . today . .if you haven't done so already. Don't forget about the your people who just turned 18. Who knows, heaven forbid, they may be drafted. . so they better excercise their right to vote. . . Let's do it. Get on the train, if your not on already. Could anyone provide a list of these states? Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:41:22 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: science, religion. . fractiles. .njc Mark wrote: >I have come to think that the creation and the creator are one and the >same. Everything is >interconnected and yes, I think there is a logic or design to it all. >Whatever devised that logic >runs through the whole from the smallest detail to the collective immensity >of the entire universe. This reminds me of fractiles. . It is kind of cool. . if you're not sure what I mean, do a search. . . Marianne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:38:36 EDT From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: NYC GIGS - Phil de Gruy (NJC) To the NYC JMDL members- Check out Phil whilst he be in the big apple. He is seriously twisted human and an amazing guitar player. Hopefully some of you can check him out and tell him Paz sent ya. Best Paz P.S. I have finsihed mixing and mastering the Jonifest 2004 tracks and have sent them off to Les for evaluation in comparison to his tracks and Chris Marshall's. > > > > GREETINGS, > I'M LEAVING MY HOUSE! > ... I'M ACTUALLY FLYING TO NY CITY FOR A FEW > GIGS, WHILE SUCH THINGS ARE STILL LEGAL... > > ON FRI., OCT. 15TH, > I'LL BE PLAYING WITH GUITARIST JOE GIGLIO AT: > 107 WEST > 2787 BROADWAY > (212) 864-1555 > 10:30 > > SAT., OCT. 16TH (SOLO) > GREENWICH VILLAGE BISTRO > 13 CARMINE > (212) 206-9777 > 9:00 > > MON., OCT. 18TH (SOLO) > THE CUTTING ROOM > 19 W. 24TH ST. > (212) 691-4065 > 9:30 > > CAN'T WAIT TO SEE Y'ALL... > -PHIL > > > REMEMBER, IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT PHIL, > THEN "THEY" WIN... > -G.W. BUSH Return-path: From: Jolly8994@aol.com Full-name: Jolly8994 Message-ID: <53.17487268.2e8f402d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:20:13 EDT Subject: NYC GIGS - Phil de Gruy To: Jolly8994@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5112 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c-p1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain GREETINGS, I'M LEAVING MY HOUSE! ... I'M ACTUALLY FLYING TO NY CITY FOR A FEW GIGS, WHILE SUCH THINGS ARE STILL LEGAL... ON FRI., OCT. 15TH, I'LL BE PLAYING WITH GUITARIST JOE GIGLIO AT: 107 WEST 2787 BROADWAY (212) 864-1555 10:30 SAT., OCT. 16TH (SOLO) GREENWICH VILLAGE BISTRO 13 CARMINE (212) 206-9777 9:00 MON., OCT. 18TH (SOLO) THE CUTTING ROOM 19 W. 24TH ST. (212) 691-4065 9:30 CAN'T WAIT TO SEE Y'ALL... - -PHIL REMEMBER, IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT PHIL, THEN "THEY" WIN... - -G.W. BUSH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:54:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Stop the Bleeding - NJC I wrote: "after watching the debates it is hard for be to believe that anyone with any critical thinking skills would be able to say bush is their candidate- nobody is home! to me the only explanation would be blind party loyalty or extreme religious belief (the one that tells them bush is there because god put him there)... " Bob s wrote: I realize that my reply taxes your credulity (if it does not, then I also realize that would imply that you do not believe that I have any critical thinking skills). I prefer to assume the former, for to assume the latter would cause me to feel insulted by your remarks. Fred's initial post - written without any hint of disrespect for other listers - did not run the risk of insulting anybody (although I confess to having been mildly irritated once again by the failure to us the NJC tag). Your reply did run that risk, and - because it also did not have the NJC tag - managed once again to reach an even wider audience of those who might be offended (namely, those who - like me - had subscribed to Joni-only to avoid having to deal with that type of veiled insult). I could asset that I find it hard to believe that anybody with any critical thinking skills or any manners would persist in making that error after all these years - but I prefer to assume that it was made once again in the heat of the moment by a person who is passionate in her beliefs. First sorry about replying without checking the njc, I usally do notice & often add it on when replying when I notice it should be there (but if you are on joni only you would not know this). but this time it slipped by me. it was not intentional as I respect the importance of not sending stuff to folks who only want joni info. Secondly, yes you are right about me feeling passionate about my beliefs but it is also because every single day I live with the worry about a son in law who is in iraq (he has 4 kids & a wife) who daily is at great risk in spite of the continual denial or lies put forth by the bush administration that things are improving.. I despise this administration for what they have created . Thirdly, I am sorry if I insulted you but if you read my words again you will see I said 'it is hard for me (not be) to believe.blah blah blah. I did NOT say that anyone who votes for bush is lacking blah blah blah. I hope you can see the difference because it is significant. & yes I still find it hard for me to believe that anyone with critical thinking skills could vote for bush after seeing that debate. I welcome you to please explain why after watching the debates you have come to the conclusion that he is a better candidate i ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:53:58 -0400 From: briangross@rocketmail.com Subject: canada.com Story Dear joni@smoe.org, briangross@rocketmail.com, Your friend briangross@rocketmail.com thought you might be interested in this canada.com story: "Mendel unveils expansion plans" http://www.canada.com/nanaimo/story.html?id=412f076f-06b8-4943-a7cd-94e28f1bb91d Expansion plans for the Mendel, including a Joni Cafe _______________________________________ This is a free service courtesy of canada.com (http://www.canada.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:28:24 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Future Jonifests Hi Everyone, I know there has been a lot of talk around moving Fest to a different location in the country, specifically mid-west or west coast. Is there anyone that is willing to pick up the ball and put this together so it will actually happen? I know there are many people that would like to see Jonifest continue. If it doesn't pan out for another venue, there is the possibility of having Fest back at Full Moon around April of 2006. Since we have already been there several years, it would be very easy to put this together, and I would be willing to get back on board with this since I will have had a good long rest in between. Also, because it would be off-season, the price would most likely be considerably less. For those of you that would even consider going to another Jonifest, please e-mail me back with the following: 1) Do you prefer Jonifest back at Full Moon, or another place in the country? (Also indicate no preference if that is the case.) 2) Would you be willing to be in charge of putting together a Jonifest in another location and making it happen? 3) What are the most important factors in attending Jonifest for you? (Price, location transportation, etc.) Thanks and hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:59:24 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Future Jonifests Ten Reasons to Have Jonifest in Milwaukee in 2005... 1. If you fly, you will land in MITCHELL FIELD. 2. Across the street from the airport is a club/restaurant calld AMELIA'S. 3. You can shop on MITCHELL STREET. 4. If your not PC, you can shop at MITCHELL FURS. 5. You can walk down Klien Drive in St. Francis... 6. Ah, let me think about number six... 7. Actually, now that I think about it, Jonifest would probably be more fun in Chicago!!! Steve >>> 10/04/04 10:28AM >>> Hi Everyone, I know there has been a lot of talk around moving Fest to a different location in the country, specifically mid-west or west coast. Is there anyone that is willing to pick up the ball and put this together so it will actually happen? I know there are many people that would like to see Jonifest continue. If it doesn't pan out for another venue, there is the possibility of having Fest back at Full Moon around April of 2006. Since we have already been there several years, it would be very easy to put this together, and I would be willing to get back on board with this since I will have had a good long rest in between. Also, because it would be off-season, the price would most likely be considerably less. For those of you that would even consider going to another Jonifest, please e-mail me back with the following: 1) Do you prefer Jonifest back at Full Moon, or another place in the country? (Also indicate no preference if that is the case.) 2) Would you be willing to be in charge of putting together a Jonifest in another location and making it happen? 3) What are the most important factors in attending Jonifest for you? (Price, location transportation, etc.) Thanks and hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:24:33 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Over the Rainbow - NJC Wow! Emilano! I really want to hear this live show! At least she lives on through her music. I just wish she could see how much everyone loves her work now. Death is such a mystery...maybe she can see....thank you for your kind words to me as well. Love, Sherelle >From: Emiliano >To: Sherelle Smith , JMDL >Subject: Re: Over the Rainbow - NJC >Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:48:44 +0200 > >Hi, Sherelle! >it's always great to read from you: I'm very glad you've discovered Eva >Cassidy's *beautiful* art. > > > Also, I love Sting's comments about her. It sounds like he truly >appreciated > > her version of his song, Fields of Gold. > > > >Oh, yes! >When you will listen to it (you'd better *run* for a copy of Live At The >Blues Alley: you will listen to one of the most beautiful live shows ever) >you'll find out why: Eva Cassidy's Over The Rainbow is stunning, but Fields >Of Gold is... (words fail me) Soul Food! > >love: >Emiliano > >NP: Eva Cassidy: People Get Ready > >"I take just like a wo/man >and I make love just like a wo/man >(but when I hear Eva's Fields Of Gold) >I break just like a little child" >--Gov. Jim McGreevey > _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:06:35 EDT From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Future Jonifests 1) Do you prefer Jonifest back at Full Moon, or another place in the country? (Also indicate no preference if that is the case.) Honestly I am just tired of the Full Moon. There is nothing really wrong with the joint I am just ready for a change. I would love to see it move to the west coast or mid america somewhere. Being that there is the amount of participation that you got from others this year I could be talked into doing another one in New Orleans. Since Hurricane Ivan hit the panhandle I have been thinking that it would be really cool to organize something in the Gulf Shores-Pensacola area. They really need the financial impact. The devastation is incredible there, but I have heard that the clean up is going great and by next summer they should be back to normal beautiful hot beaches. A combo New Orleans event with an after party couple of days detox in Gulf Shores could be cool. This could be cost prohibitive but.... Also I am planning a trip to Honduras right now for Christmas (we are not going to NYC as planned before) and we plan to go to the island of Roatan for a few days so I could talk to those folks again. Last check the flights are around $199 round trip from Miami, New Orleans, or Houston (only during certain times of the year). The hotel where we always stay is more of a condo kinda thing (bedroom, living room, dining room and kitchen. King bed in the bedroom and fold out couch in living room. This was about $115 per day. Breakfast and lunch are $5-$10 and Dinner $15. Of course you can cook yourself to save money. > > 2) Would you be willing to be in charge of putting together a Jonifest in > another location and making it happen? I would yes but would demand HELP from many. > > 3) What are the most important factors in attending Jonifest for you? > (Price, location transportation, > etc.) The people! and of course the sex drugs and rock and roll. > > Thanks and hugs, > Ashara > Other comments: April is by far the worst month of the year for me work wise and I venture to say that I would not to able to participate on any level if you do something during April or May. (Here's your chance to get rid of me!!!) Les how about Colorado??? There is going to be a minifest in Utah next year for the wedding. Also another minifest is scheduled for March at my bitches house in Birmingham, Alabama. More later Love Paz NP-Mrs. Jesus-Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:43:21 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc Hey Mike and Em, > was refreshed to hear that someone else was incredulous about this. > That there really are no 4 succinct races. Or 5? > What are the 4? What are the 5? > Would be interested to know, if anyone wants to spell it out. I guess the U.S. government could tell you. I totally agree that people can't be easily sorted into 4 or 5 groups and did not mean to say this is what anyone should believe. However, as you well know, we do grow up being sorted and segregated to some degree or another in the U.S. based on what people have defined as "race." or racial groups. Think of every birth certificate, death certificate, school application, driver's license, college aid, medical records, census records, etc. where your race is required to be recorded.. There are about 5 or 6 racial groups now being listed on most of these applications/records. Some people believe this practice should be discontinued with the exception of medical records, where knowledge of racial type does sometimes help in diagnosis, treatment and medical research. > Maybe the "4 races" are the 4 map "directions" as referred to by Joni > on the recent KPFK interview, - north, south, east and west....and she > spelled out the various attributes those people are *supposed* to have. Joni has also talked about the "4 races" to explain her map. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:16:28 -0400 From: Doug Boudreau Subject: 6 feet under njc I agree that the last season wasn't quite as riveting as the previous seasons. Also wanted to see if anyone else caught the episode that closed off with Joni's Woodstock ?? It was a great episode of Ruth really beginning to come into her own. She plays the song on her stereo at the shows' end and sings along. Perhaps she was getting back in touch with a place she came from long ago. One of the better episodes. I'm still anxiously awaiting the next season. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:46:01 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: What a show!!! NJC Lucky you, Richard. And right here in Florida. You won't believe Bonnie live. She is better now than ever. We want a report! Jerry NP: Joni - Free Man in Paris - live, 1979, San Francisco > I'm going this Friday to the Bonnie Raitt, Keb' Mo, Sheryl Crow show in > Jacksonville. I'm a huge Bonnie fan since I first bought her first album in > 1972. Saw her with Little Feat and Butterfield Better Days Band in--I > think--1973 or 4, and many times thereafter. I like Keb' sometimes a little > slick but he's good saw him once live. Sheryl Crow leaves me cold, but hey > It's VOTE FOR CHANGE and Move On didn't put me in the lottery for the Boss > in Orlando. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:41 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: What a show!!! NJC > > Wow - just got back from my roadtrip, the Mrs. & I went to Cleveland OH to > see the "Vote For Change" show with Springsteen, John Fogerty, REM, & > Brighteyes (who was way out of his league here but no matter). > > Where to begin with the highlights?? I hadn't seen REM since 1980 or so > when > they had just started out and were playing a little bitty club in Raleigh, > so it was great to see them again all these umpteen records later. Stipe > loves > a cause so he was very jacked, and when Bruce came out to do the vocals on > "Man On The Moon" & "Bad Day" it was way cool. > > Valerie & I had been brainstorming about his setlist, based on the nature > of > the event, and we were pretty much on the mark, with a couple of misses - I > > said he'd play "Born In The USA" and it was their opener. I said he'd jam > with Fogerty on "Fortunate Son" and that was awesome, and so appropriate. I > > wished for but didn't really expect "Bad Moon Rising" with John, Bruce, and > The > E-Streeters, and got it! Wasn't expecting Stipe to come out and sing > Bruce's > "Because The Night" (a hit for his pal Patti Smith) and that was great. I > figured that he'd resurrect "War" but that didn't happen. They did play > Edwin > Starr's original version over the loudspeakers while they were setting him > up > though. > > Probably the most moving number was Bruce's "The River", which was very > emotionally performed. "The Promised Land" was also very moving...you have > to > realize, for those of you who have never been to a Springsteen show, that > EVERYONE in the venue (we're talking 20,000 or so people here) is standing > for most > if not all of his set, and singing along with him, and when, in the context > > of the night (Vote For Change), your > voice mingles with 20,000 others and you're singing: > > "Mister I ain't a boy, no I'm a man, > And I believe in the promised land" > > It's a pretty darn powerful moment. He did several songs from "The Rising" > which also became framed in a different context; originally they felt like > healing songs for a post 9-11 world, last night they felt like songs of > hope for > healing for a world badly abused by the policies and actions of Bush and > co. > There was also some humorous stuff, such as Bruce calling for people > wearing > bowties to come up on the stage and be converted...but many many times the > message from all of the artists was for registration (they had folks there > to > register Ohio folk), for involvement, for voting for change. > The finale brought everyone back on stage for the aforementioned "Bad Moon > Rising", "What's So Funny 'Bout Peace Love & Understanding", and Patti > Smith's > "People Have The Power". > Believe me, I'm leaving out lots of great moments, but as good as the music > > was, it felt wonderful to be surrounded by folks of like mind who want a > regime change in November. They cranked up at 7:30 and wrapped up a little > after > 12. I've got a sore throat from whooping and whoo-hooing. > Great to be home though...1300 miles is a lot for a weekend!! If my post is > > a bit disconnected it's due to road lag - I feel like I'm still moving. > > Next up - Pearl Jam & Death Cab For Cutie on Weds. night... > > Bob > > NP: Joni, "Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:49:46 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc I read all of his books and saw him lecture around 1975. Sounded at least plausible to me. Jerry > The Smurf writes: > >> And 25 years ago was around the time of the "Charriots of the Gods" book ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:02:22 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Our Kids & Joni Hi Janine et al: Clearly you raised your daughter well: that she would KNOW that a Joni commercial on London TV DEFINITLEY merits a long-distance phone call home to Mom! Sweet! I think boys are a little different, though. My sons are jokesters. My twenty-something son Chris stopped by last Saturday night....I was have my own private Joni-fest going, with all the house lights turned up bright, and all the windows open as it was a balmy evening. I think at that moment FTR was playing. He came in and said: "You'd better turn that down or you'll have all the dogs in the neighborhood howling." Brat! Now how do you respond to THAT? I took a deep breath and the high road, ignored the barb, summoned all my Joni-grace, smiled sweetly, and said: "Well, I knew you were coming, so I wanted to have some quality, soul-enriching music on for you in case you ever venture out into cultured society." I love it when our kids acknowledge (in any way) our passion for la Joan! At least they have heard something we've tried to say. Peace, Patti P.S. Gotcha, Chris! I TOLD you I was going to report you to the Joni Police! Now Paz will never get you Jack Nielson's autograph. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:34:25 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: vote for Kerry Sounds good Fred. In addition, another avenue is to persuade potential Bush voters to not vote at all. . I mean, give them enough reason to not go to the polls on Nov. 2. Fred below: Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:50:05 -0400 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: STOP THE BLEEDING .. VOTE FOR KERRY I've been thinking about how best to help Kerry win, and this is what I've come up with. I know more than a few people who are registered to vote but are still on the fence for various reasons ... they don't necessarily want to vote for Bush but they're not crazy about Kerry, either (well, neither am I). They're clinging to the noble idea of voting "for" someone, a dangerous notion to hold when the wolf has already crashed through the door while you wait for a knight in shining armor. If every person who has already decided to vote for Kerry "adopts" just one person who is on the fence and helps to convince them to vote for Kerry, he'll win, we all win. If you can help sway two, or five people, all the better. Give them information, point them to web sites and articles, tell them to rent or buy Fahrenheit 9/11 next week, or even treat them to a rental. The analogy I've come up with for myself in answer to the undecided's reluctance to vote "against" Bush instead of "for" Kerry is that when there is profuse bleeding from a wound, the first thing to do is to apply a tourniquet ... before any healing can begin, we must stop the bleeding. In fact, that's my new slogan: STOP THE BLEEDING .. VOTE FOR KERRY Peace, Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:00:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Future Jonifests (NJC) Quoting Steven Polifka : > 6. Ah, let me think about number six... 6. BEER!!! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Future Jonifests (NJC) Lori sed: > 6. BEER!!! Em says: Harley-Davidson factory tours? :D em ===== - ---------- "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues You can tell by the way she smiles" Bob D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:08:52 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Delete key gone wild I've just completed my quarterly "mass delete" of accumulated email on this account. If anyone has emailed me, either on-list or off, and I haven't responded, please accept my apology and contact me again. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:45:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Science vs Religion, njc --- Em wrote: > Hi Mike, > was refreshed to hear that someone else was > incredulous about this. > That there really are no 4 succinct races. Or 5? > What are the 4? What are the 5? > Would be interested to know, if anyone wants to > spell it out. > I mean I realize probably what's meant are: very > white people, very > black people, asians and???? what can we call the > other? > ummm..Mediterranean types? I mean there are brownish > people all over > the earth...and they touch all the afore-mentioned > groups. > and how do you know which one you are? > am I on the right track? > Maybe the "4 races" are the 4 map "directions" as > referred to by Joni > on the recent KPFK interview, - north, south, east > and west....and she > spelled out the various attributes those people are > *supposed* to have. This is something that absolutely floors me - that people even bother to try to put humans into a set number of "races." How could anyone say that all black people are the same, for example? If you've seen an Ethiopian or a Somali, you would never think they belonged to the same "race", whatever that even means, as someone from the Congo, for example. You might get somewhere by trying to put people into various "ethnic" groups, but even that doesn't necessarily work. I suppose there are certain physical characteristics that people from certain regions might have - but maybe that's more because people from smaller regions with little contact with outsiders are more likely to have a smaller gene pool to choose from, and are therefore more likely to look more alike. I remember vaguely in either late elementary school or maybe even high school taking something-to-do-with attempting to class the people of the world into a particular number of races... but I don't remember how many there were supposed to be at the time. They always seemed to have trouble trying to slot the pygmies or the Australian aboriginal people into one of these races, as I recall. I remember going with my kids to an exhibit at the Ontario Science Centre that had to do with genes and racism. One display showed you pictures of three young men and you were supposed to "guess" which two you thought might have more in common. There were two black guys and one white guy. Most people would say the two black guys were more alike, but then they showed you different factors, including blood type and so on, and, as it turns out, one of the black guys and the white guy were a closer match genetically. That may be a bit hokey, but the point was to show that similarities and differences amongst people have to do with a lot more than skin colour. I find it interesting that we, as people, tend to want to differentiate ourselves so much along colour lines and that we always want to find ways of making *our* particular group (MY race, MY ethnic group, MY religion, MY language, whatever...) different from others, but always better, of course (who would choose to be inferior, after all?) And yet, we can interbreed, so we're all the same genetically. Dogs come in many different sizes and colours and they don't seem to care one way or another - whether they like or dislike another dog has nothing to do with what breed another dog is, and they can interbreed, as the mutts of the planet bear witness (although trying to imagine a chihuahua/Great Dane mix is a bit of a stretch!) We all do this though, and it has been used as the excuse for slavery, wars, etc. - somehow the OTHER is always inferior and/or to be feared. Like you, Em, I also have a problem with the whole "Asian" thing. How can you lump Asians together, when Asia has China, Japan, Korea, etc. as well as India and Pakistan, to name but a few. And then again, what the hell is an Arab supposed to be? Are they dark white people, or light black people? They live in Africa, after all. Interesting stuff, but it's all so futile trying to slot everyone into a category of race. Just rambling here. Not trying to make any kind of point. People crack me right up! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #402 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)