From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #396 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 30 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 396 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Tell this to the NRA NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Chaka Khan's son arrested for murder (Joni mention) now NJC [colin ] Re: This Just In (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni Meet-up ["William Waddell" ] NJC Killer Sofas NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: This Just In (NJC) [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Chaka Khan's son and the right to bear arms -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.co] Re: Joni Meet-up [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: This Just In (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: '79 Joni show on STG [Jerry Notaro ] RE: religion, beliefs, science, njc ["hell" ] Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: religion, beliefs, science, njc ["Steven Polifka" ] re: (NJC) speaking of JMDL recommendations [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: NJC Killer Sofas NJC ["Steven Polifka" ] shooters and the outcome... NJC ["aurabright" ] Re: Flying NJC ["don whiteman" ] guns (njc) ["Anne Sandstrom" ] RE: This Just In (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Chaka Khan's son arrested for murder (Joni mention) now NJC [mags h <] Speaking of artists you might have heard (NJC) [Michaelpaz@aol.com] njc, pattys and pattis ["Patti Parlette" ] Re:Over the Rainbow - NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Chaka Khan's son and the right to bear arms -- njc [Catherine McKay <] Re: Joni Meet-up [Catherine McKay ] Joni at Target [] Re: This Just In (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: This Just In (NJC) [Michael Paz ] NJC was: Shum Ticky - now: Plum Pickies from the JMDL [] re: This Just In NJC [Alison E ] Re: This Just In NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Patti's memories [PassScribe@aol.com] RE: This Just In NJC ["patrick leader" ] Re: This Just In NJC [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni Meet-up -- NJC, which is pathetic for a Joni meet-up [Smurfycopy] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:05:19 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Tell this to the NRA NJC and they say guns dont kill people. bollocks Guns don't die, people do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:13:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Chaka Khan's son arrested for murder (Joni mention) now NJC Brian Gross wrote: >Les Irvin wrote: > > > >mags wrote: > > >>and they say guns dont kill people. bollocks. >> >> > >Now me: >Could have just as easily been killed by a (take your choice): >Hockey stick > etc etc etc the major, and for me defining difference, is that a gun is very very easy to use. All those other implements would have taken much more time, would have needed the perp to be much closer to the victim. A gun can be used in a split second. No time to change your change or cool down. If someone wants to murder they will. In the heat of the moment, with guns so readily available, more people(and children) die because they aer dealy and so so easy to use. The right to carry a gun has no place in a civilised society that cares more about people and their lives than it does an outdated bill of rights. The idea one can buy weapons that are made purely for killing people is outrageous. Yes, in the USA you can.The right to carry/own guns is not confined to little pistols or shotguns used ofr hunting. You can buy weapons of war dsigned for killing people. That is not defendable. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:27:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc Laurent Olszer wrote > Have you ever thought about where your conscience comes from, that makes you >being loving, moral, etc? > yes of course. it is a natural part of our makeup. we are wired that way. but it gets warped and not expressed to it's fullest by fear. Unlike many people and many religions, i do not believe humans are born 'bad' or that it is our basic nature to be 'bad'. I think the opposite. If all children were given true love and true respect and did not have their minds warped by abuse or indoctrination, we would see a vast reduction in the problems this world has. The problems in the ME can be laid down to the way the children of the ME are indoctrinated(and abused). Of course they grow up into adults who can only think in a certain way and who are convinced they are right. I believe it was a Jesuit who said 'give me a child till he is 7 and I will show you the man'. I think that holds true but it is not undoable. People can and do change given courage and the desire to and the knowledge of other ways to think. > > Laurent > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:19:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) > >Big news coming from out west. PLEASE STAND BY!< > > We had a 6.0 earthquake yesterday, you mean there's more? I'm standing by, too Paz, but it's looking like the whole west coast is about ready to break off, so don't hold us in suspense too long! Another 5.0 along the San Andreas yesterday, there are hundreds of earthquakes happening near Mammoth (large dormant volcano/caldera), reports that Mt. St. Helens is going to erupt again and now there are also reports of Mt. Rainier showing activity. Hope these babies are just doing a little stretching and getting the kinks out. Sheesh. Kakki "Thar she blows!" -Gov. Ji m Mc Gr ey eev - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:44:02 +0100 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Joni Meet-up This is for any of you in central / west of Scotland area - hey Gordon!!! This is from the Joni Meet-up team. WtS x From : Meetup.com Sent : 29 September 2004 17:39:37 Subject : Announcing your new Joni Mitchell Meetup Group! Dear Meetup member, There's a New Meetup.com. It's easier to use--and friendlier, too! See more at: http://www.meetup.com/new/ - - If you've never had a Meetup before, now you can! - - Meetups are more flexible. Now your Meetup Group can *decide locally where, when, and how often* you meet. - - And now *anyone can start a local Meetup Group* about almost any cause or interest! *Your Joni Mitchell Meetup Group DOES NOT YET HAVE AN ORGANIZER* Will you consider becoming the Group Organizer? You can always step down later, and it will take only a few extra minutes a month. To volunteer as Organizer, or learn more about what's involved, visit your Group's new home page: http://joni.meetup.com/2/ If no one steps forward, one more Meetup will be automatically scheduled. We hope you will use the opportunity to decide between you who should step up as Organizer. (Some of you may have noticed that your October Meetup was automatically cancelled. It has now been reinstated, and you can RSVP as normal.) *After that, the Group will no longer have Meetups until an Organizer is chosen.* http://joni.meetup.com/2/ You're a Founding Member of your Joni Mitchell Meetup Group. Make it thrive! We hope you, your family, your friends, and your neighbors have great Meetups. Best regards, The team at Meetup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:52:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Killer Sofas NJC **Can we see the stats on how many pieces of furniture killed young people last year? And don't forget that our current President just allowed that 10-year ban on Assault Furniture to lapse. End Tables are flying off the shelves in record numbers and I'm living in TOTAL FEAR like all upstanding Americans should. Sheesh. But hey, wouldn't "Killer Sofas" be a great name for a rock band? Bob NP: Rose Mary Rees, "Chelsea Morning" (Purple Mix) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:58:22 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) Kakki expresses: << -Gov. Ji m Mc Gr ey eev >> Hmm. McGreevey forms made of letters ... hadn't thought of that. Tell me, Kakki, is that a little dipper you made for the famous-for-helping-himself governor? - --Smurf "I am a gay American. Would you like some decorating tips before I shoot you?" - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:06:00 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chaka Khan's son and the right to bear arms -- njc Ms. Guzzi writes: << Far as I am concerned - this is one we could lose ... or we can all lose soo much more. >> I have always supported gun control, I've never owned a gun and most likely never will, but I don't think I'd want to "lose" the right to bear arms during the current administration. - --Smurf "Is that a gun in your pocket or ... oh my God! ... it *is* a gun!" - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:14:50 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Meet-up Willy (Hi, WIlly!) reports from Scotland: << *Your Joni Mitchell Meetup Group DOES NOT YET HAVE AN ORGANIZER* >> Am I the only one who visualized a Scottish Ashara? ("Arrrrrrr! Sign up now, lads and lassies!") - --Smurf "I'm 100% American, although I once had a little Israeli in me." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:50:22 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc > > I am simply too overwhelmed by all this coherence and beauty to > > imagine that > > it could result from chance or from anything else but a "planned" system. > > So my logical conclusion is: If not by a Supreme Being, then who or what > > else? > > Good question - and maybe it's just that we haven't discovered the "what > else" yet? I'm not criticising you, or mocking anyone's faith (I totally > respect that), but to me the idea of "God" as the answer to the so-called > "unanswerable" questions is IMHO (stress that - MY opinion!) an easy > solution to explain the on-going question of life, the universe and > everything, ie. we can't explain it, so let's just call it God! > Dear Hellen Yes of course I thought about the orchid not surviving without this particular animal. But for this one example and the trillion others that surround us, I find it hard to believe that evolution can explain it all. Take the human body, a great machine, the brain, the organs, etc, etc. Again, nature supplies amazing examples and there are so many things interrelated that fit in perfect symbiosis that the probability of all this taking shape on its own is 0. To me, it's not that G_d is an easy answer to an unanswerable question. It's a deeply rooted conviction. Also keep in mind the famous example that on the scale of the universe (or was it the Earth,not sure?) brought back to a 1 year scale, Man appeared December 31st at 11:59 pm or something like that (and life only appeared a very short time before that). So not only did it "evolve" into this beautiful world, but incredibly fast. I cannot imagine that "early" life as simple organisms would "simply" evolve on its own into Joni after a few million years, can you? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:54:35 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc > So not only did it "evolve" into this beautiful world, but incredibly fast. > I cannot imagine that "early" life as simple organisms would "simply" evolve > on its own into Joni after a few million years, can you? > Laurent Yes. The only real difference between us and rock is carbon. We have given greater credence to "organic chemistry" as has Western religion, but I have a feeling it's the rocks that are laughing at us. We are stardust, We are golden........ "Just" billion year old carbon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:58:45 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) And I was beginning to think only Florida was having all the fun. Jerry :) > I'm standing by, too Paz, but it's looking like the whole west coast is > about ready to break off, so don't hold us in suspense too long! Another > 5.0 along the San Andreas yesterday, there are hundreds of earthquakes > happening near Mammoth (large dormant volcano/caldera), reports that Mt. St. > Helens is going to erupt again and now there are also reports of Mt. Rainier > showing activity. Hope these babies are just doing a little stretching and > getting the kinks out. Sheesh. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:19:41 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: '79 Joni show on STG > Joni bit torrent on Sharing the Groove: > > http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?t=84535 Thank you David. This Mac BitTorrent is unbelievable. Took me about 60 seconds to figure it out and about another 60 seconds for it to begin working. Bravo. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:35:00 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: religion, beliefs, science, njc Laurent wrote: > Yes of course I thought about the orchid not surviving without this > particular animal. But for this one example and the trillion others that > surround us, I find it hard to believe that evolution can explain it all. > Take the human body, a great machine, the brain, the organs, etc, etc. > Again, nature supplies amazing examples and there are so many things > interrelated that fit in perfect symbiosis that the probability > of all this taking shape on its own is 0. This is where we disagree, since to me the things you've mentioned are a perfect example of the process of evolution (and natural selection) over thousands of years. If you look at those examples out of context, as "just existing" then of course it seems incredible. But if we were to trace their evolution (which we can't do accurately without a time machine) then we would see the logical progression of natural selection. Those symbiotic relationships exist BECAUSE of evolution, not in spite of it. That's my belief, at any rate, and I would stress that I'm not trying to change your belief, I'm just explaining mine. > To me, it's not that G_d is an easy answer to an unanswerable question. > It's a deeply rooted conviction. And I respect that conviction wholeheartedly - but I did stress that it was MY opinion, and the reason I find it hard to believe in a supreme being. > Also keep in mind the famous example that on the scale of the universe (or > was it the Earth,not sure?) brought back to a 1 year scale, Man appeared > December 31st at 11:59 pm or something like that (and life only appeared a > very short time before that). > So not only did it "evolve" into this beautiful world, but incredibly fast. > I cannot imagine that "early" life as simple organisms would "simply" evolve > on its own into Joni after a few million years, can you? Yes, that is exactly what I believe! And yes, it seems that it's taken an incredibly long time for life to start, and a relatively short time for evolution to get to this point. But if we're still around as a species in a billion years (assuming we still have a viable planet to live on), and presumably we'll have evolved a little more as well, then it won't seem like a long time at all. In your example, we're really not seeing the whole scale, only the part up until now. Who knows where it ends, and what our part of it is? Dinosaurs existed for a short time a few million years ago, and they were complex organisms, with much the same basic structure as humans (as far as we can tell from the fossil record). And yet their environment became hostile, and they disappeared. It took several million years for conditions to improve enough for life (as we know it) to begin again. For all we know, life "could" have existed at the beginnings of the universe, had the right conditions (and that includes the basic elements of life as well, like carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, etc.) existed. And I don't think we can say that evolution has happened unnaturally fast, since we have no basis for comparison? If we knew of another planet with humans, maybe we could ask them how long they took ;o)? Seriously, I'm not making fun of you, I'm just trying to argue my side of the debate. There is also another theory to explain music and the arts (which are unique to our species on Earth). It goes something like this: we have become a very efficient species, in terms of providing the basis fundamental requirements of life, ie. food, water, shelter, etc. Since we're not using all of our available time in providing these essentials, we've had time to develop these more leisurely pursuits. A society that is flourishing, will have more of these products, and a society that is basically just getting by will have less. Consider any relatively wealthy nation like NZ, USA, Canada, France, England, etc. and compare them to any third world nation. I think you'd find the proportion of working artists (in any field) to be vastly different! I guess we're lucky Joni was born in Canada! I could go on for hours here (but I won't, since it's way past midnight and I have to work tomorrow!) but I think we have to agree to disagree. But I do appreciate your side of the argument, even if I don't have the same views. Hell ____________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:57:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc For all we know, life "could" have existed at the beginnings of the > universe, had the right conditions (and that includes the basic elements of > life as well, like carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, etc.) existed. I see your points and of course respect your opinion. Nevertheless nobody has been able to create life by putting together as many of these elements. What's missing is the spark, which as you guessed is Divine IMO. Sweet (Joni) dreams Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:02:28 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: religion, beliefs, science, njc > I see your points and of course respect your opinion. > Nevertheless nobody has been able to create life by putting together as many > of these elements. > What's missing is the spark, which as you guessed is Divine IMO. I knew it. Bette Midler is God! Jerry, really enjoying this thread though it may be annoying others ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:34:11 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: RE: religion, beliefs, science, njc Well as long as we are on ecology... Bee populations are down 20%. Not good news since we don't have another way to pollenate our food... Reports of bee keepers loaning out their bees to orchards in Wisconsin is cool but scarey in a way. Ten years ago you could catch a 300 lbs. tuna. Now a large tuna runs around 100. We've farmed out (up?) most of our oceans. I don't see much action being taken to help the planet. Steve >>> "hell" 09/29/04 08:07PM >>> Randy wrote: > > You are saying that, due to lack of an adequate answer to the > > creation and existence of the universe, it must be a supreme being. > > This is a faulty conclusion, since, with our limited minds, we cannot > > be sure we are ruling out-or even considering-every possiblility, let > > along evaluating them conclusively. > > It does not follow that we must provide an answer just because we > > want one. It may be beyond us (or not), but providing an answer > > without all the information is essentially giving up and choosing > > blindly. From a rational point of view, anyway. I probably shouldn't get into this debate, because I'll get carried away! But I completely agree with Randy here. A couple of hundred years ago we thought the earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around us. Only a few decades ago, we thought atoms were the smallest things in the universe, and now that has been disproved. Science is advancing at an exponential rate, and who knows what we'll discover in the next hundred years? Of course you could argue that these "discoveries" are false, and that we see what we want to see - but you could go round in circles with that argument! Then Laurent wrote: > For instance there's > a species of orchid with a 13 inch-long neck. In order to > reproduce itself > it needs an animal who can reach down over 13 inches with its tongue to > reach the pollen. What do you know, such a creature exists (forgot its > name) with a tongue of the exact length. > Think of all these seemingly insignificant but deeply inter-related little > things that build the world as it is. IMO, you're talking about natural selection here. The plant would not have evolved or survived if there were not an animal capable of helping it reproduce. There are many many species on earth that have a symbiotic relationship (symbiosis being a relationship between two species to their mutual advantage), and some have evolved to a point where they are completely dependent on that relationship - the plant you describe is just one example. Humans also have a symbiotic relationship with certain bacteria - we need them to help break down food, and they cannot survive outside our nice warm, moist digestive systems. > I am simply too overwhelmed by all this coherence and beauty to > imagine that > it could result from chance or from anything else but a "planned" system. > So my logical conclusion is: If not by a Supreme Being, then who or what > else? Good question - and maybe it's just that we haven't discovered the "what else" yet? I'm not criticising you, or mocking anyone's faith (I totally respect that), but to me the idea of "God" as the answer to the so-called "unanswerable" questions is IMHO (stress that - MY opinion!) an easy solution to explain the on-going question of life, the universe and everything, ie. we can't explain it, so let's just call it God! As far as beauty and nature goes, there are certain things that trigger emotions in order to help us survive in the world. Puppies, kittens and babies are "cute" for a reason - they engage feelings of protection and a desire to care for them. I would recommend any of the Robert Winston TV series on human nature, etc. (particularly the series "Human Instinct") - - they're fascinating viewing and he explains a lot of these theories (and of course, that's all they are!) much better than I could. Perhaps the reason we see the Earth as "beautiful" etc. is an evolutionary conditioned response, that triggers a desire to look after our environment? Which could be seen as another symbiotic relationship, not between two living organisms, but rather between us, as a living organism, and the environment we inhabit. It's to our benefit to look after the planet, and it's in the "planet's" interests to have us look after it. Music and painting also trigger feelings of happiness, which makes us more comfortable in our environment, which in turn, helps us live more peacefully with those around us - benefitting society as a whole. I could debate this for hours - and I'd much rather be doing it in person, with all of you, with a cold beer in my hand! - but it's something I've always been fascinated with. In short, I think we're a long, LONG way from having all the answers - and maybe we never will? Hell - who studied ecology and evolution a zillion years ago, but has forgotten far more than she remembers! ____________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: re: (NJC) speaking of JMDL recommendations Well, it happened again. Last night I read this recommendation and thought hm, never heard of her. This morning driving to work I hear this fantastic song and I'm thinking who is this?! Madeleine Peyroux, of course. It was a cover of Dance Me to the End of Love and it was fantastic. Jenny c Karma wrote: MADELEINE PEYROUX!!!! What rock have I been hiding under since 1996 (her first release) to not have heard her before a live radio broadcast this past Monday on WFUV? She has a new album out (produced, coincidentally by Larry Klein) and is touring. Visit her website: www.madeleinepeyroux.com for dates in your area and definitely check her out if you haven't heard. The ovation at the end of her show was deafening and tumultuous and most deserved. I am blown away. CC New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:01:02 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) Four Hurricanes in what, six weeks? Dormant volcanoes waking up, war and warmongers rampant,'everyone hates everyone'... The planet is just responding to what is going on. The thoughts and attitudes of all of us create this reaction- so I am not at all surprised. Even science cannot truly explain away why all these happenings are occuring- at one time. Maybe Mother Earth is telling us to wake up! Steve >>> "Kakki" 09/30/04 02:19AM >>> > >Big news coming from out west. PLEASE STAND BY!< > > We had a 6.0 earthquake yesterday, you mean there's more? I'm standing by, too Paz, but it's looking like the whole west coast is about ready to break off, so don't hold us in suspense too long! Another 5.0 along the San Andreas yesterday, there are hundreds of earthquakes happening near Mammoth (large dormant volcano/caldera), reports that Mt. St. Helens is going to erupt again and now there are also reports of Mt. Rainier showing activity. Hope these babies are just doing a little stretching and getting the kinks out. Sheesh. Kakki "Thar she blows!" -Gov. Ji m Mc Gr ey eev - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:03:24 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: NJC Killer Sofas NJC Maybe grand pianos falling from the skies might count for furniture deaths. Have you ever seen one fall from 2 stories up as they are trying to lift it into the windows of some condo??? Steve >>> 09/30/04 05:52AM >>> **Can we see the stats on how many pieces of furniture killed young people last year? And don't forget that our current President just allowed that 10-year ban on Assault Furniture to lapse. End Tables are flying off the shelves in record numbers and I'm living in TOTAL FEAR like all upstanding Americans should. Sheesh. But hey, wouldn't "Killer Sofas" be a great name for a rock band? Bob NP: Rose Mary Rees, "Chelsea Morning" (Purple Mix) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:04:10 +0100 From: "aurabright" Subject: shooters and the outcome... NJC I am the first to admit I have enjoyed shooting ranges every now and again..My cousin is the British SMall Bore champion.... I used to go pheasant shooting and clay pigeon shooting.. but I would never want to own a gun, nor live in a society where there was a constitutional right to have them. WHY DO YOU NEED TO HAVE THEM? in England where we do not have a legal right to have them.... their use in crime is, in most cases criminal on criminal. WE have had our own set of crazies who have mown down the innocent. We have had our own gun shot murders but usually the gun has been stolen from a club, or someones house.... The most recent tragic event was a completely inadequate man who killed his son and wife and then him self... He had stolen that gun from his girlfriends gun cabinet... I have to say that the people I know who have guns are those who shoot pheasant and grouse etc., and use them to kill deer, and rabbits. Its a countryside thing. nothing to do with living in urban areas for "safety". I know that they never keep a gun loaded for any "just in case" scenario that seems to have been the case in the worst out comes of a household robbery or an argument... (as in Chaka Khans son).... Guns have no place amongst the law abiding. What is so important that you cannot give it up to a criminal. Isnt that what household insurance is for? IN very few cases is someone shot for no reason. You cannot legislate very much against the temporary madness of the few. You cannot bring back the Columbine kids, you cannot bring back the thousands each year murdered in America. You can .. all you anti-gun people in America .....remove the right to bear arms. Societies that allow guns for personal empowerment seem to be led by inadequate, narrow and war mongering men....and so many men in that society seem to think that they can emulate that position of power by owning deadly weapons....it somehow equates with their masculinity... Our police have no guns.... they rarely get shot. Take away the guns, be men. The debate on guns always reminds of the song by Tom Paxton "buy a gun for your son" (I cannot remember all the words and those of you that know them all...... I would be grateful for them.please). halleluja moms and daddies cowboys rebels yanks and commies buy yourself some real red blooded fun dont get worried dont get nervous send your kid into the service let him rise unto the pentagon SO buy a gun for your son right away sir shake his hand like a man and let him play sir let his little mind expand place a weapon in his hand for the skills he learns today may someday pay sir To the Pentagon he'll rise the President he will advise his repuation growing all the while When they get that fateful call They'll turn their faces to the wall and press the firing button with a smile SO buy a gun for your son right away sir shake his hand like a man and let him play sir let his little mnd expand place a weapon in his hand for the skills he learns today may someday pay sir...... I think those are the words ... Lucy on a grey English afternoon preparing for the dentist!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:33:11 +1000 From: "don whiteman" Subject: Re: Flying NJC When I flew back home to Australia from LA in May, I took with me a new guitar that I bought from Buffalo Bros. It is a Little Martin and Kakki told me just the night before that I would have no trouble getting onto a plane with it. The security guard at LAX even asked to see it then had a play, did some Keb Mo and said, that was sweet. Qantas is always packed on the redeye back home. They just let me put it up in the overhead. I know I have been very quite of late but I am being a fulltime carer for my dad at the moment as he is very ill with cancer in the liver. Being a full time carer is one of the hardest jobs I have ever done especially when you still have a very demanding fulltime job, those that know me know that it is not always a day job, lots of nights as well. Kakki when I get back to LA next year we are going to catch up and I want you to take me to Guitar Centre in Hollywood, I want to buy a D41 to add to the stable. regards all Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:05:28 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: guns (njc) As others have stated, every item in this list has a purpose other than wounding or killing: Could have just as easily been killed by a (take your choice): Hockey stick Baseball bat Thrown baseball Iron pipe Kitchen knife Frying pan Automobile Piece of furniture Brick A blow to the windpipe But, guns have no purpose other than wounding and killing. As for the second ammendment to the Constitution, which reads, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." the placement of the second comma has been a subject of endless debate. If parsed as written, it means that the ammendment guarantees the right to a well regulated Militia, not the right to bear Arms. Given the circumstances under which this was written, I believe that was the intent. However, it does pose a larger dilemma in that context. It means that militia groups have the right to exist. Again, given the context, that made sense at the time. However, the world has changed significantly since then. One could argue that since the government has nuclear weapons, militia groups should also be allowed to have such weapons. I think a more appropriate ammendment for these times is one that would limit the influence corporations have on the government. It's not really "we the people" as much as "we the incorporated." Having said all that, I don't think the founding fathers actually had the current U.S. model of democracy (yes, I know it's not a true democracy; it's a republic) in mind. Frankly, the lower and middle class voter has more say than was originally intended. Ben Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc. were not from your average working class. They weren't all that keen on having common laborers (and certainly not people of color) actively involved in government. There was a "we're educated, so we know better" mentality. Probably somewhat reasonable at the time, given the state of public education. Guaranteeing quality education for all, and the right to vote, are much more essential in a modern democracy. my $.02 lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:53:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: This Just In (NJC) >Maybe Mother Earth is telling us to wake up! Steve< We've greatly upset the balance on this planet... hopi prophecy has & is still warning us about this & its just a matter of whether we've gone to far to turn it around now... I don't think anyone knows but we're on the edge... mother earth is more powerful than her inhabitants & if we don't live in accordance with HER laws we will suffer the consequences... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:56:49 -0700 (PDT) From: mags h Subject: RE: Chaka Khan's son arrested for murder (Joni mention) now NJC hell wrote: True, the person with the gun should be punished, but the fact remains that (according to the report I read on www.courttv.com) they were fighting over the gun when it "accidentally" went off. I don't think a baseball, or a brick can "accidentally" go off and kill someone in quite the same way.... and let's face it Hell...no matter what excuses are made, look at the reasons behind keeping guns, loaded guns in the house. just in case.(insert scary music ) .in case what.... in case the killer sofas come rolling into town...thanks for that bro Bob...an image I wont soon forget ;-) Mags....laughing it all awaaaaaaaaaaaay ____________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell let us just be side by side, helping, respecting and understanding each other, in common effort to serve humankind. ~Dalai Lama~ New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:48:40 EDT From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Speaking of artists you might have heard (NJC) Speaking of artists I heard about from the JMDL, Mr. Julius Mills reccommended this guy with links below who claims Joni as an influence. I like the guys voice. It remids me of the cat from Simply Red in a way. Check him out. Love Paz NP-Tiger-Paula Cole on my Launchcast Radio Station http://raylamontagne.com/ http://www.echo.co.uk/raylamontagne/press_TheTimes_sept04.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:17:31 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: njc, pattys and pattis Catherine wrote: Artists I knew about but paid more attention to since joining the jmdl and have since grown to like a whole lot: - - - Patti Smith (Hi Garrett) (what is up with all these women named Patty or Patti?) - ---------------------------------- I don't know, but I invite them, along with Patti Page and Patty Duke and every other Patty/Patti, to come to UConn to fight me over marrying an engineering professor whose last name is Pattipati! (I kid you not.) I invite Patti Scialfi, too, so that Bruuuuuce will be freed up for Rose in NJ! :) _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:57:58 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re:Over the Rainbow - NJC Oh Jerry! I finally got the chance to hear this version by Eva Cassidy a few weeks ago on this same program I've been telling you about, Smooth Jazz Sunday Brunch and I was absolutely, completely blown away!!!! I never heard anything like it!!! It was absolutely beautiful. While Judy's version will always have a place in my heart, this version is mind boggling!!! When Al Santos played it, he said that Eva is now deceased. How sad. Do you know anything about her life? Sherelle Jerry wrote: >The Divine Ms. G writes: > ><< I found Eva Cassidy here as well. And again I would mention her version >of "Somewhere Over The Rainbow," as one that rivals Judy's. >> > > Both of these versions are knockouts. I use Eva's Over the Rainbow as my "reference" recording when listening to audio equipment. It is as near perfect a recording as you can get. Jerry _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:01:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Chaka Khan's son and the right to bear arms -- njc --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > > I have always supported gun control, I've never > owned a gun and most likely > never will, but I don't think I'd want to "lose" the > right to bear arms during > the current administration. > > --Smurf I'm all for bear arms, especially when it's hot. Or bear arms, with bear claws at the end - mmmmm! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:04:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Meet-up --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Willy (Hi, WIlly!) reports from Scotland: > > << *Your Joni Mitchell Meetup Group DOES NOT YET > HAVE AN ORGANIZER* >> > > > Am I the only one who visualized a Scottish Ashara? > ("Arrrrrrr! Sign up now, > lads and lassies!") > I made the mistake of signing up for that thing. Now I can't figure out how to uns*b! I keep getting notifications that it's meet-up time, but I'm the only person in Trawna apparently that has signed up for it. I could meet myself in a cafe and talk for a while, I suppose, see if I liked myself enough to see myself again, but naaaaah... And they keep asking me if I want to be the organizer! Crrrapp! I'd have to organize myself! Anyone who has ever seen my desk (at home or at work) would realize, that ain't gonna happen! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:10:08 -0400 From: Subject: Joni at Target Brian, You should lay off the brown acid for a while. Shopping for Joni's CDs is JC, IMHO. Michael Paz New Orleans, LA (and not posted from Lama's account at all) >Visited my suburban Target last night to swim with the masses. Went to the CD racks to check out Dreamland as I picked Dreamland, a Mexican family started talking up a storm and Joni's self portrait appeared in my Myopic vision as Saint Joni of Guadeloupe with the rays of the strong sun of Malibu encircling her blonde locks. All the different photos JM I have seen in the last 36 years flashed before my face starting with the Joni of the Check Mate till the one in T'log of her with the black hat. I was weightless in a transcendental state between the fluorescent lights and the sheet vinyl floor> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:14:19 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) LMAO!!! Now Kakki is doing it! Well if the announcement doesn't come soon I will have to steal someones thunder (far it be it for me....) You guys be safe out there. Love Paz >>> Big news coming from out west. PLEASE STAND BY!< >> >> We had a 6.0 earthquake yesterday, you mean there's more? > > I'm standing by, too Paz, but it's looking like the whole west coast is > about ready to break off, so don't hold us in suspense too long! Another > 5.0 along the San Andreas yesterday, there are hundreds of earthquakes > happening near Mammoth (large dormant volcano/caldera), reports that Mt. St. > Helens is going to erupt again and now there are also reports of Mt. Rainier > showing activity. Hope these babies are just doing a little stretching and > getting the kinks out. Sheesh. > > Kakki > > > "Thar she blows!" > > -Gov. Ji > m Mc > Gr ey > eev > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:19:23 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: This Just In (NJC) They're trying to wash us away They're trying to wash us away They're trying to wash us away Paz NP-Way To Blu-Victor Johnson-JF2004 > And I was beginning to think only Florida was having all the fun. > > Jerry :) > >> I'm standing by, too Paz, but it's looking like the whole west coast is >> about ready to break off, so don't hold us in suspense too long! Another >> 5.0 along the San Andreas yesterday, there are hundreds of earthquakes >> happening near Mammoth (large dormant volcano/caldera), reports that Mt. St. >> Helens is going to erupt again and now there are also reports of Mt. Rainier >> showing activity. Hope these babies are just doing a little stretching and >> getting the kinks out. Sheesh. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:29:39 -0400 From: Subject: NJC was: Shum Ticky - now: Plum Pickies from the JMDL BZZT. I'm sorry, Em. Thanks for playing. None of the 3 titles you mention are "bubblegum". Since each one is bittersweet, the worst you can say about them is they are... well... bittersweet. What's bubblegum? "Dizzy". That's a straightforward bubblegum song. Why? Because I didn't buy it, that's why. The world's most caffeinated man, Lama PS, "Walk Away Renee" might be the saddest song in my collection. It's funny that it should come up in conversation on this particular day... Em said, >I keep wondering if Shum Ticky is not bubble gum. Like is this "Crimson and Clover" or "Pleasant Valley Sunday" or "Walk Away Renee", and I just like it cuz its pure dubble bubble sugar pleasure and "oh so sweet". But no, there's "bitter" too.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:41:47 -0400 From: Subject: Chaka Khan's son arrested for murder Chaka Khan revealed a back-story for one of Joni's title cuts in NYC at the "Joni's Jazz" show. Am I remembering it right? Does someone want to pick up the story? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: re: This Just In NJC hi everybody! while not as exciting as an earthquake , only slightly less dangerous, and not even particularly interesting to most of you, i'm afraid that Paz's news from the west refers to me....i'm gettin' hitched. yup! i am officially betrothed to scott marshall, the guy i've been living with for two years now. he popped the question, and i said yes. so, i just wanted to share that with you. remember the west jonifest you were all contemplating? well BRING IT ON! ya'll come to the desert! we'll probably do it somewhere near capitol reef in sou. utah, so if you've always wanted to see Arches, Moab, or just mindblowing redrock desert, now's your chance. how can you resist... http://www.waterfallwalks.com/capitolreefscenicdr.JPG i'm gonna need a singer (claud?) and a guitar player (les? paz?) a lesbian (hell?) a wiccan (ashara, do we have a wiccan?) a cuban ass(ed? you can bring jimmy too!) another southerner so scott doesn't get lonely (bob, that's you!) a cartoon character (smurf?) and many more, a cast of thousands, so make your plans now! maybe julius will give me away! so that's the news folks. two posts in a month! whoo hoo! xoxo, Alison E. in slc np: air america, and the debates in a minute. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:47:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: This Just In NJC **so make your plans now! Awesome news, Alison - congratulations!! I've been dying to get back to Moab, my FAVORITE city in the USA. When's the date? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:08:36 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Patti's memories In a message dated 9/30/04 3:00:40 AM, > "Patti Parlette" > wrote: > > Subject: writing on Joni in high school...... > > > > .........Pardon these self-indulgent memories here -- but where else could > I share > them? > Vive la Joan! > Love to all, > > Patti > > P.S. Should I have tagged this NJC? Do the NJCs only like real hard Joni > news? If so, I apologize and will do better in the future. > Hi, Patti! Yours are exactly the memories and thoughts I love to read most on this site (even though I haven't contributed much myself lately.) Thank you for your post! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:13:01 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: This Just In NJC rock on, alison! i'm so happy for you, and wish you and scott the happiest of futures. much love, patrick "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of >Alison E >Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 7:38 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: re: This Just In NJC > > >hi everybody! while not as exciting as an earthquake , >only slightly less dangerous, and not even >particularly interesting to most of you, i'm afraid >that Paz's news from the west refers to me....i'm >gettin' hitched. yup! i am officially betrothed to >scott marshall, the guy i've been living with for two >years now. he popped the question, and i said yes. so, >i just wanted to share that with you. remember the >west jonifest you were all contemplating? well BRING >IT ON! ya'll come to the desert! we'll probably do it >somewhere near capitol reef in sou. utah, so if you've >always wanted to see Arches, Moab, or just mindblowing >redrock desert, now's your chance. how can you >resist... > >http://www.waterfallwalks.com/capitolreefscenicdr.JPG > >i'm gonna need a singer (claud?) and a guitar player >(les? paz?) >a lesbian (hell?) a wiccan (ashara, do we have a >wiccan?) a cuban ass(ed? you can bring jimmy too!) >another southerner so scott doesn't get lonely (bob, >that's you!) a cartoon character (smurf?) and many >more, a cast of thousands, so make your plans now! >maybe julius will give me away! > >so that's the news folks. >two posts in a month! whoo hoo! >xoxo, >Alison E. in slc >np: air america, and the debates in a minute. > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:48:59 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: This Just In NJC *Miss* Alison writes: << i'm gettin' hitched. >> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! There goes my last viable straight fantasy! But best wishes anyway, Alison. You know, they say every bride should walk down the aisle with something blue ... XO, - --Smurf, feeling teary again after getting all girly-weepy during "Festival Express" tonight. Odd thing was, it was like a Jonifest on wheels, and even 34 years later the musicians who were there talked about it in much the same way that we always talk about fests. And VINCE, if you are in da house ... Janis Joplin singing "Cry Baby" is worth the price of admission. I got chills listening to her and couldn't help but think if she were starting out today, those jerks on American Idol or any of those shows would probably tell her to see a skin care specialist and to stop mixing feather boas with gold lame and black lace. I enjoyed this movie very much. - --Smurf "Every time the Seventh Fleet is in town I get at least one big lump in my throat." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:57:52 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Meet-up -- NJC, which is pathetic for a Joni meet-up Catherine writes: << I could meet myself in a cafe and talk for a while, I suppose, see if I liked myself enough to see myself again, but naaaaah... >> Forget it, Catherine. It would never work out between you. XO, - --Smurf "I am going to throw a fabulous red, white and lavender bachelor party for someone's fiance ..." - --Gov. Jim McGreevey ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #396 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)