From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #376 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 376 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: pwwam now njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Chinese Cafe Cover ["willytheshake100" ] Re: pwwam now Van the Man njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Chinese Cafe Cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: New Joni cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: pwwam now njc [Em ] Re: pwwam now Van the Man njc [Em ] Re: Joni's 'survival' [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: pwwam now njc ip op? [Em ] Re: English, njc ["Lama \(Jim L'Hommedieu\)" ] Beth Patterson update, (long) njc ["Lama \(Jim L'Hommedieu\)" ] RE: babel, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: babel, njc ["Kakki" ] RE: babel, njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: babel, njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] RE: babel, njc [Catherine McKay ] Today's Library Links: September 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:31:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: pwwam now njc >ps my first clue was when Van Morrison de-balled "Brown Eyed Girl" to remove "making love in the green grass, behind the stadium". Wasn't the original lyric brown skinned girl? That he changed for corporate reasons I suppose... Or is that urban legend? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:03:52 +0100 From: "willytheshake100" Subject: Chinese Cafe Cover Gordon wrote: > We need a jonifest at next years Edinburgh International Festival. Who wants to come to Scotland? Tapped in Joni and the festival and found this: http://www.nakedvoices.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pressrelease.htm Thought this might be of particular interest to that SCJoniguy chap for the eternal covers project (if you don't already know about it). http://www.naked-voices.co.uk/ WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: pwwam now Van the Man njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > >ps my first clue was when Van Morrison de-balled > "Brown Eyed Girl" to > remove "making love in the green grass, behind the > stadium". > > Wasn't the original lyric brown skinned girl? That > he changed for corporate > reasons I suppose... Or is that urban legend? I always heard "making love in the green grass..." Was there another version? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:40:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese Cafe Cover **Thought this might be of particular interest to that SCJoniguy chap for the eternal covers project (if you don't already know about it). Hiya Willie - I will echo the comments of others and say that how happy I am to see your by-line in our midst once more! Your post was very coincidental - just this week I announced Volume 56 in the ever-expanding, seemingly never-ending, historically significant Joni Covers Project, and the live version of "Chinese Cafe" (from their 2002 'Chambers Street' CD) is on it. I commented in my liner notes that the band member that I wrote to had said that they would have a studio version someday...and someday is here! I revisited the website thanks to the link you provided, and see that the group HAS in fact recorded a new CD in June of this year called "All Together" with Chinese Cafe, an XTC song (River Of Orchids), a Fleetwood Mac song for Ms. Nikki (The Chain), a U2 song (Running To Stand Still) and of course many others. You can hear a 1:23 length sample if you click on "Recording" on the left-hand side and then scroll down and click on "Listen To The CD's". Bob NP: Pat Metheny Group, "Midwestern Nights Dream" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:49:15 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Joni cover **Interesting song choices. I thought so too...obviously the project is politically charged, hence the inclusion of all of the socio-political material. Wish they had included a cover of the Dead Kennedy's "Stars & Stripes of Corruption" which cuts to the core - one of my favorite songs of this genre. Wouldn't it have been cool for Joni to close TBOS with a newly-recorded acapella take of Fiddle & The Drum? OMG, that would have rocked my world. To show the span of time from 1969 to 2004, basically the length of her recording career, with no change in the idiocy of our going to war, and her innocent-sounding crystalline voice of then contrasting with her weary-yet-wiser voice of today? That would have been awesome. ** And did you check out the comments on the rest of the page? No, but I can imagine - I've wandered into some political chatrooms lately just as an observer and the level of hatred that Americans have for one another now is really scary. And Mr. Bush sells himself as a UNITER!! Feh. Bob NP: Pat Metheny Group, "Wrong Is Right" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: pwwam now njc - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Wasn't the original lyric brown skinned girl? That he changed for > corporate > reasons I suppose... Or is that urban legend? Hi Kate don't know if its true ot not, but yep, I heard that also. So they made it "brown-eyed". So at least the outside chance still existed that he wasn't making love outside his race. Since some mama does occaisionally throw a brown eyed baby girl in northern Europe. So it was ok (er) that way. At least partly digestible. LOL.... Em ===== "because, dis is ard. coz failin at dig isn't da same fin as not lovin. it doesn't let yous off da ook. it doesn't mean yous is free to not dig." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:14:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: pwwam now Van the Man njc - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > I always heard "making love in the green grass..." Was > there another version? They changed it! I forget exactly what it says, and its done subtely, so you think its YOU and you're just confused or something. Not sure if all stations play this bastardized version, but the real mainstream ones do. My understanding is that Van himself was behind this. I remember reading about it, actually, many years ago. Maybe he went through a "nun-ish" phase. Now I want to poke around online and find info. Happy Saturday! em ===== "because, dis is ard. coz failin at dig isn't da same fin as not lovin. it doesn't let yous off da ook. it doesn't mean yous is free to not dig." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:07:20 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's 'survival' Justin wrote, in part: I'm quite shocked to learn that she feels this way. She may not be as widely popular in the mainstream as she was in the early to mid 70's, but that doesn't mean that her music isn't still largely appreciated by people that still care about quality songwriting. I'm 26 and I only started listening to her music about 3 years ago and she's opened up a lot of doors for me....... There are still a lot of young people that are just discovering her music now, and I don't see that changing. Music of her quality is something that will be appreciated for a long time to come, even if it's slightly under the radar of popular culture or even if it takes years for her work to be understood. Very nice post, Justin. However, I am not shocked by Joni's concerns - she is, I assume, worried about her music surviving through the generations. And while we all are in agreement that it deserves to, that will take at least some ongoing critical mass of public awareness, understanding and acknowledgement. So, I'm glad to see another youthful member of the cognoscenti out there. This leads to the matter of keeping the word alive. I worked on my daughter Leah for years until she saw the light- now she concedes (tongue only partly in cheek) that she is an evangelist among her friends and acquaintances. One of her converts - a guy from Paris (now studying at Stanford), whom she met while she was on a grant there for a year - visited us last weekend here in NJ (Leah was also in town - ostensibly to visit us, but in reality to show him NYC - having flown in on the way to do some research at NIH). Anyway, he had forgotten to bring his Joni CD's when he left Paris for California, so I copied a few for him to tide him over for a few months. Hopefully, he'll play them for his buddies at Stanford. Have you had any luck introducing Joni to your friends ? (It's part of your job, I'm sorry to say) ;-) That said, supporting your view, one of Leah's suitemates at Oxford is a performer, with a high percentage of Joni songs in her repertoire (can it be that we Joni lovers always find each other somehow ?). ;-) Bob Sartorius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: pwwam now njc ip op? - --- Brenda wrote: > The hip hop nation salutes you. Check it out (and I don't mean Jay Z or 50) ...you may find what you're talking about. Hi brenda, em in da house, from da jonilist. would yous dig to recommend some ip op fa me? please don't go to any aggro thinkin somethin up - but if there's somethin right off da top of your ead yous can think of - i'd appreciate knowin wot it might be. In da house's da fin, dig Joni (or Geffen in Paris?), i crave warmth and beauty. and i could go fa some "strange new flesh", errr..music. Ain't did ave much success at checkin dat in ip op. But thun again - i check where dats kinda dig sayin abstract expressionist paintin (like Pollock) isn't "art" coz it lacks certain elements. Closest i've come to ip op me would dig is one of da Putumayo cd's which is dig "world" dance tunes. and its wicked! in fact i think i'll orda it now. ;) anyway, me salute da ip op nation too. respek, Emzdogz ===== "because, dis is ard. coz failin at dig isn't da same fin as not lovin. it doesn't let yous off da ook. it doesn't mean yous is free to not dig." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:43:40 -0400 From: "Lama \(Jim L'Hommedieu\)" Subject: Re: English, njc Wow, a sociological thread. This is nice to see. First of all, Les, I enjoyed your thoughtful post and well written post. I'm not sure what Alastair Cooke had in mind here. Certainly before the Puritans got here, there were already several Native American languages in North America. When immigrants came in from Africa & throughout Europe, they all brought more tongues to the mix. When Chinese immigrants came over (initially to build the cross continental rail road as I recall), the circle widened again. If I recall the numbers correctly, Hispanic people are the fastest growing ethnic group in the US. Until the past decade, there were very few Hispanic people in the middle of the US. I'm in a suburb of Cincinnati, on the Ohio River; suddenly all of the 2nd hand clothing stores ("thrift stores") have signage in both English and Spanish. I don't think that English is inherently superior but, as I understand the psychology of immigrants, they are motivated to start over. Trading their old identity for a new one, they give up their home, name, and language. (My 2nd gf was "Susan Verbridge", an American-ized Dutch name that was originally "ver Brudge" if I think.) I agree that the English language is dissolving in America but I think it's "same as it ever was". Jim np: TAKE SOME FIRE Les paraphrased: >Alastair Cooke in one of his 'Letters from America' read out on the BBC, brought up the subject of English once being the dominant language in the USA and remarking on its passing in favour of Hispanic and the very many languages of immigrants to the USA.> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:29:58 -0400 From: "Lama \(Jim L'Hommedieu\)" Subject: Beth Patterson update, (long) njc I drove 70 minutes to Dayton last night to see Beth Patterson; I had a great time. Man, she can play fast when she wants to! I love the stories and I'm always amazed at her sense of Time. Hearing these Celtic-influenced songs stripped down, I noticed that many are built on a shuffle. At the end of a line, I often find myself thinking, "thump-thump", which is straight out of "Iko Iko". (What is an African shuffle doing in a Celtic song form?! Are many of them like this or is this a Patterson pattern?) As bonuses, she is very at ease in front of a mic and has humor going non stop. She's a pro, a natural ham, and a HUGE talent. Her wicked humor came out in dead-solid parodies of Enya and Alanis. (Look out McKay, she's as good as you are.) Unexpectedly, she throws lyrics from ELP, Rush, and Metallica into the traditional songs to keep everyone on their toes. - --- Early in the evening, before I introduced myself, I was laughing, from a table on the side, right in the front. She's so funny she often has 3 punchlines in a row. At one point, she looked at me and said, "Did you... just... snort?" I dipped my head in mock shame and nodded. She said, "Uh-oh. I just found my soul mate." I said, "I won't tell Ron." She shot back, "I'm worried about you telling my *mother*." - -- She must have a really, really stable bouzouki because she barely had to tune all night. np: "TAKE SOME FIRE" at full volume, autographed just last night by both Beth Patterson & Ron Keller. In return for their autographs, I gave 'em a pile of New Orleans pictures from PazFest pictures and a Funky Meters' show. (Beth took the solo after "Amelia" on Paz's set. This 2 cd document, "PAZFEST, vol 1 & 2", benefits children who are burn survivors in Honduras through the Ruth Paz Foundation. It's available at cdbaby.com. Sorry about the commercial but old habits die hard.) I'm completely tongue-tied trying to talk to Beth because in my mind she's "A Star". It really gets in the way, ya know? Ron said they had a great time with Cindy & Giselle the other night. Beth & Giselle really hit it off, both musically and on a humor-level. I'm gonna drive 2 hours up to Columbus and catch Beth again tonight. Ron said the venue in Columbus is more of a singer-songwriter place instead of the very loud bar environment last night. I'll dig out my performance photo of Giselle from last year's JoniFest and add it to the pile I gave 'em last night. JMDL has been very, very good to this boring computer geek. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:14:27 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: babel, njc Les (London) wrote: ...And it also has to be said that in the UK, and it's especially true in the schools, that immigrant children have increasingly poorer grasp of English in the spoken and especially in the written form even after a number of years in the country and in the education system. Hi Les! Hmmmm? Wonder what this reflects? I have a friend who is French Canadian living in Birmingham, Alabama and married to a guy of Cuban decent. Their kids are tri-lingual, with French and English being stronger than Spanish. Much to my amazement, they don't seem to thrive in grammer and writing classes in grade school. My guess is that these kids will excell above the uni-lingual as they grow up and make sense out of the three languages they know. Les wrote: London always had an interesting mix of languages audible on the street if for no other reason than its being a tourist destination. These days since the European Union expanded and the former USSR disolved it is a positive Babel. This reminds me of south Florida in places like Ft. Lauderdale during "the season."... standing on the street corner one, if one closed their eyes, they wouldn't know what country they were in. Les wrote: I'm not knowledgeable in social anthropolgy but I can't help but wonder how such things will influence the viability of our society in the short to medium term. I think it will foster non-verbal communication out of necessity. And, my guess is there will be a greater need for music to give people a refuge for all the confusion of linguistics. English is a challenging language for foreigners to learn. Look at the reasons listed below. My French Canadian friend sent this to me. Love, Laura Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn: 1) The bandage was wound around the wound. 2) The farm was used to produce produce. 3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. 4) We must polish the Polish furniture. 5) He could lead if he would get the lead out. 6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert. 7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present. 8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. 9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. 10) I did not object to the object. 11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid. 12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. 13) They were too close to the door to close it. 14) The buck does funny things when the does are present. 15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line. 16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. 17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail. 18) After a number of injections my jaw got number. 19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear. 20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. 21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend. If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? Is it an odd, or an end? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which, an alarm goes off by going on. English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all. That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. P.S. - Why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick"? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:02:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: babel, njc actually, from the point of view of grammar and syntax, english is one of the easiest languages. compared with spanish, german or russian, it's a piece of cake. we foreigners will always make mistakes but so will native speakers. argentina went through the same "melting pot" process as did the us and at about the same time. the misconception that immigrants want to leave their identities, values and narratives behind was also common here -- to the extent that the state school system instituted the "guardapolvo blanco" (white pinafore?) as a way to (literally) cover all traces of the immigrant children's original culture and thus re-signify them as potential "clean, "obedient" and "honest" citizens. this and other policies drove newly arrived children (among whom were my parents in their time) to loathe their parents' culture and despise those who still spoke the old languages and maintained the old habits. all things non-argentine were construed as synonymous with barbaric customs and automatically dismissed as obstacles to "integration". as to the coexistence of many languages within one society, the result is usually the pidginization of the vernacular. it is a marvelously vibrant process that gave us the languages we speak today, languages we imagine as "pure" and in danger of adulteration because of the influence or the seeming inability of immigrants to learn them (and in this way abandon their equally pure and legitimate original languages). hadn't it been for pidginization, we wouldn't have any modern languages -- only high latin and classical greek. immigrants seek sanctuary not oblivion. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:57:38 -0400 From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: RE: babel, njc Wally said: << immigrants seek sanctuary not oblivion. >> Not in the case of my ancestors, but then ... they *were* Irish! XO, - --Bob, back in RI (for the weekend) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:15:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: babel, njc I think there are more languages spoken in L.A. than anywhere. It's amazing. All of the spanish language speakers in my office speak it regularly when interacting with one another at work. The public schools have tried to accomodate all the languages as far as teaching the children, but there has been studies that have shown this actually holds the students back over the long term. A friend has a baby son who is learning only Spanish from his mother and Italian from his father - I joke that they better they better throw in a bit of English at some point so he will be OK in school. One of my favorite parts of the movie Blade Runner is where the people living in the futuristic mutated L.A. are speaking some kind of garbled hybrid Japanese/Spanish/English/Esperanto/Klingon. Thought that was a stroke of genius and very close to how it may evolve LOL Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:29:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: babel, njc --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Wally said: > > << immigrants seek sanctuary not oblivion. >> > > > Not in the case of my ancestors, but then ... they > *were* Irish! > What are they now? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:35:19 -0400 From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: RE: babel, njc About my ancestors, Catherine asks: << What are they now? O'Dead! - --Smurf, whose real ancestors were probably bluish ... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: babel, njc --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > About my ancestors, Catherine asks: > > << What are they now? > > > O'Dead! I *knew* you were going to say that! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:08:38 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 12 On September 12 the following article was published: 1994: "Morning Becomes Eclectic" - KCRW-FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=673 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #376 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)