From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #363 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 31 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 363 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni on Johnny cash show [Rick and Susan ] free complimentary guest admission njc ["Marian Russell" ] Re: NYC protests NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Dreamland painting [simon@icu.com] Re: Dreamland painting [Jerry Notaro ] Re: k. d.'s Joni covers [Richard Goldman ] Re: Dreamland painting [dsk ] Re: A joyful noise NJC [dsk ] Re: A joyful noise NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Joni Mitchell Sings Joni Mitchell" (Pink Dress Video) [Randy Remote ] Re: Republican convention (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: k. d.'s Joni covers ["Mark or Travis" ] Jonifest - back from the garden [Catherine McKay ] Jonifest (very long) ["janine sherman" ] kds joni covers [Rob & Tracy ] Today's Library Links: August 31 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Dan Fogelberg SJC [Lindsay Moon ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:43:13 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Joni on Johnny cash show Is anyone familiar with a DVD of Johnny Cash show performances by, among others, Joni and Linda Ronstadt? One is currently on offer on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/63hvb I watched all of these shows when they first aired and would love to see them again but wondered if the DVD is available commercially rather than through an eBay auction. What searching I've done hasn't turned up anything. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 04:14:06 -0400 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: free complimentary guest admission njc If anyone in the DC area would like to have a free Complimentary Guest Admission to the National Museum of Women in the Arts, please email me with your name and mailing address and I will send it to you. I receive one every year with my membership renewal, but since I don't live there, I can't use it myself. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 06:50:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Johnny cash show I don't have any of the Linda appearances, Rick, but I do have all of the Joni appearances w/Johnny on a VCD which I can easily copy. There's some other stuff on the VCD as well. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:30:36 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: intimate joni njc now I wrote >I agree, intimate venues are the crhme de la crhme When I typed this it said c r e m e (with a accent over the first e)... weird that it got changed to an h in the process ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:42:28 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NYC protests NJC Debra >Karl Rove and all the Bushies act as though we should all just be quiet and agreeable and do whatever they say. So, sure, they'll make this peaceful demonstration today look like a VERY BAD THING. Be afraid is their main manipulation tool. I heard on the news just now that the Repubs are going to spin it as, see, we're back to protesting just like Kerry did against the Vietnam War.< Then there is this little nugget on PRE-EMPTIVE interrogations of demonstrators... >The FBI's Pre-Emptive Interrogations Of "Possible" Demonstrators:Chilling Political Speech By BOB BARR Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2004 The FBI, no longer content with working to maintain order at political events, is now preemptively identifying and interrogating ("interviewing") possible demonstrators. It has summarized this strategy in a memo. To make matters worse, the Department of Justice blessed the FBI strategy in its own memo - suggesting that no First Amendment concerns are raised by the interrogations. As I will explain in this column, however, the truth is quite to the contrary: The strategy, as outlined in the memo, is a serious threat to free speech. Back When Politics Was Fun, Protest Was Part of It Throughout the Reagan and Clinton presidencies, and even to some extent during the Nixon years, politics was fun. At least, political protesting had its lighter moments. (Nothing was really fun during the dour Carter Administration, and George H.W. Bush's presidency was, well, pretty boring except for the First Gulf War.) Who can forget the great costumes and Nixon face masks that appeared at many political rallies and other events during the 1960s and early 1970s? Reagan and Clinton masks, the latter sometimes adorned with long, Pinocchio-type noses, added color and a bit of levity to political demonstrations throughout most of the 1980s and 1990s. There was, in a word, tolerance. Reagan, with his constant good humor, almost always disarmed protesters with his wit. Conservatives wearing anti-Clinton T-shirts frequently showed up at Clinton rallies. The worst they might face from the then-president's supporters were scowls. This atmosphere didn't mean security was absent; it was very present. In the 1960s through the end of Clinton's second term in January 2001, everyone knew if you caused disruption, Secret Service agents would be on you in an instant, as they should be. But during that period, you didn't feel you were doing something criminal if you simply decided to show up at a rally with a protest T-shirt on, or lugging around a sloppy paperboard sign criticizing the president. You didn't feel intimidated. The Bush Administration: Squelching Disagreement and Dissent Now, things are very different. The Administration and campaign of George W. Bush is squelching any possible hint of disagreement or protest at every political rally or gathering. For example, people with T-shirts that hint at disagreement are not allowed anywhere near the events, nor even on the route traveled by the presidential motorcade. Think what they'd do to you if you showed up in a - shudder -- mask. But it's gotten even worse than that. The FBI's Preemptive Interrogation Memorandum As the New York Times has reported, in an October 2003 memorandum to law enforcement agencies, the FBI expressed great concern over the possibility that marches and rallies in Washington, D.C. and San Francisco might become "violent, destructive, or disruptive." The memo went on to urge law enforcement to monitor the Internet, because "protesters often use the Internet to . . . coordinate their activities prior to demonstrations." It also urged law enforcement to watch out for protesters who use cell phones to "coordinate . . . or update colleagues." In the memo, law enforcement agencies at all levels of government are warned to be aware of "possible indicators of protest activity." Moreover, even though the memo does not cite any evidence of violence likely to take place at "possible protests," the Bureau's memo concluded by telling law enforcement agencies to "report any potentially illegal acts to the" FBI (italics added). The Department of Justice Memo Blessing the FBI Memo Doubtless, the Department of Justice, aware of the FBI memo, was concerned that it would be seen as urging law enforcement to begin monitoring persons who might be contemplating staging political protests protected by the First Amendment. So several months later, in April 2004 - as the New York Times also reported -- the Department of Justice, which oversees the FBI, issued its own memo - addressing, and dismissing, these constitutional concerns. The memo came from DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel (OLC). In the memo, OLC concluded, not surprisingly, that the monitoring, interrogating and gathering of evidence on potential political protesters raised no First Amendment concerns. In addition, it went on to conclude that even if, hypothetically, such activities did raise concerns, any "chilling" effect would be "quite minimal" and would be far outweighed by the overriding public interest in maintaining "order." Evidence Suggests Protesters Are Subjected To Home and Office Interviews No chilling effect? In the last few months, evidence has been mounting that special agents are showing up at the homes and offices of potential protesters - casting suspicion upon them in front of bosses, colleagues, family, friends and neighbors. This activity apparently has increased as the Republican Convention and the November election draw near. If that's not a chilling effect, I don't know what is. The price of free speech should not be a high-profile FBI visit that makes all who know you wonder if you may be a criminal. During these visits, the special agents "interview" the potential protesters to determine if they -- or anyone they know -- might be planning any political demonstrations. Of course, the "anyone they know" is especially worrisome - hints of McCarthyism. Also according to the New York Times, the final question the FBI agents ask is this: Does the interviewee know that withholding information on whether they know anyone else who might be planning a demonstration or "disruption" is itself a crime? One can only imagine how this parting shot plays out: "Oh, by the way, ma'am, before me and my armed partner here leave your house, we'd like to remind you that if you haven't told us if you know someone else who might be planning a demonstration, you have committed a crime and we can prosecute you for not telling us that. Have a good night, ma'am." This, of course, is pure intimidation. DOJ's Absurd Stance: Interrogation in Home or Office Is Not Interrogation The FBI, seemingly, takes an absurdly narrow view of what kind of tactics would, in fact, chill speech - a view that excludes its own plainly chilling measures. For instance, Joe Parris, an FBI spokesman, told the New York Times that, because "no one was dragged from their homes and put under bright lights," interviews of potential demonstrators are not "chilling." So now we know the Administration's new First Amendment standard: So long as the government agents don't "drag you from your home" and interrogate you "under bright lights," you have nothing to complain or worry about. The fact of the matter is, tactics such as those contemplated in last year's FBI memo, and approved by the Justice Department this past spring, do chill free speech. They do intimidate. And, self-justifying memos by government lawyers notwithstanding, such tactics usher in an era of intolerance and fear that has no place in American politics. Bob Barr served in the U.S. House of Representatives from January 1995 to January 2003. He was a senior member of the Judiciary Committee. He now practices law, writes extensively, works with the American Conservative Union, and consults on privacy matters with the ACLU.< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:47:28 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Dreamland painting wrote: > I was watching the Refuge of the Roads dvd and > looking at the photo diary which is wonderful and familiar > (as a touring actor, those backstage photos look so familiar, > especially the ones from the European leg of her tour!). > > I came upon a photo of her standing next to a poster of her > tour in French. She's offering flowers in one hand and holding > another bunch in the other. Yes, this is the EXACT photo she > used for the Dreamland painting. The hands are precise and > exactly like the one in the painting - just, I think, badly transposed > as it's from a photo, not a slide, where you can be more accurate. > It's by Joel Bernstein and a lovely photo. I'm not sure if the current > theory of the hand withering stands up here. In the photo, her left > hand still does look like a bunch of bananas. Jamie, Absolutely correct. the "DREAMLAND" cover painting is actually Joni's 3rd attempt at a painting based on this photograph. originally intended as the cover for "TRAVELOGUE", her previous attempts were unsucessful because the main image (Joni) was drawn too large and she couldn't fit the rest of the image on the canvas. i think this refutes a suggestion made several weeks ago about Joni using a projection device when painting from a photograph. she doesn't. Joni always paints free-hand. perhaps our Italian members will be interested in knowing that the photo used on the cover of the "REFUGE..." DVD was taken on May 8, 1983 after a concert at The Palasport in Genova, Italy. the photo was taken at a local cafe and the guys in the background were local patrons. the "REFUGE..." concert was recorded after the tour, (Aug.'83) on a large SoundStage in Culver City, CA. andmoreagain, simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:12:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Dreamland painting I watched the Refuge DVD 6 times this weekend. It is so much better than the video. And a real bargain. I don't think the video images are at all cheesy, which has been opined, but more of their time, which, after all, was more than twenty years ago. The transfer is flawless, and both audio tracks are a delight. A must for everyone. Jerry np: Gino Vannelli - Dea Speranza > wrote: > > perhaps our Italian members will be interested in knowing that > the photo used on the cover of the "REFUGE..." DVD was taken > on May 8, 1983 after a concert at The Palasport in Genova, Italy. > > the photo was taken at a local cafe and the guys in the background > were local patrons. > > the "REFUGE..." concert was recorded after the tour, > (Aug.'83) on a large SoundStage in Culver City, CA. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:30:25 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: k. d.'s Joni covers Ok guys, don't get me wrong. I love Joni as much as the next of you all.... but by far, the best song on k.d.'s new album of covers of Canadian artists, is the final track, Jane Siberry's "Love Is Everything", in my humble oppinion, lyric change in ACOY or not, it's still Jane's song that nails the album for me. ~Richard in San Francisco >Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 9:45:38 -0400 >From: >Subject: k. d.'s Joni covers > >Okay, I'm gonna defend k.d. lang. (This is a first!) First a few >disclaimers. I don't have her new cd. I wish she hadn't put Neil >Young's "After The Gold Rush" on it because it means the radio will >never play the brand-new version of that song that the Cowboy >Junkies put out this summer. > >Now on to the revised line >"go with it, stay with it if you can" > >Here in the midwest, "go with it" is an expression unto itself. It >means "roll with the punches" and "make the best of it". Both of >those definitions fit Joni's original intent. > >kd changed to a genderless pronoun but she's not calling the object >of her affections "it". "It" is the flawed but viable relationship. >"It" might be a marraige. > >"go with it, stay with it if you can" > >It works for me. > >All the best, >Lama > > >Bob Muller said, >>But it suddenly occurred to me...what if she was talking about >>"Cousin It" from The Addams Family? Then it all makes sense - LOL!> > >Bob Muller said, > >>The ONLY "cop-out" choice was the one she made..."go with it, >stay with it", which really means NOTHING and dilutes the power of >the lyric on any level as it has only a vague non-comitting >interpretation.>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:15:33 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Dreamland painting simon@icu.com wrote: > > the "DREAMLAND" cover painting is actually Joni's 3rd attempt > at a painting based on this photograph. > > originally intended as the cover for "TRAVELOGUE", her previous > attempts were unsucessful because the main image (Joni) was > drawn too large and she couldn't fit the rest of the image on the canvas. > > i think this refutes a suggestion made several weeks ago about > Joni using a projection device when painting from a photograph. > she doesn't. Joni always paints free-hand. I'll take your word for it, but the way some photos are flipped still makes me think otherwise. Although maybe Joni copies the photos as they are, and the flip is done at the graphic design stage. Such flipping is easily done and common in graphic design to make the image face toward where you want the viewer to look. Her copy in TI of a famous painting was flipped also. If Joni's having trouble just fitting an image on a canvas, I doubt if she'd be able to accurately transpose a photo to its opposite image as she's painting. Most importantly, there would be no reason for such a struggle since there are other ways to do that. To suggest that Joni uses a device isn't knocking her. Artists have always used whatever devices are available to help them achieve what they're aiming for. Photorealists used projectors, and one current theory is that Vermeer and others used the camera obscura. If free-hand drawing or painting doesn't get the desired result, then there are other ways to go. What kills Joni's art for me is her copying of photos; whether free-hand or using a device, she's still copying. Photographic space is flattened and no longer "real" so why use a photo to make something "alive", especially a self-portrait? Some artists do use photos, but it's usually (these days) with a sense of irony or to make some statement, not just to copy. Joni's a very earnest artist. Again, that's not knocking her. I easily identify with her straightforward earnestness. I appreciate it most, though, in her music. As far as fitting an image on a canvas goes, beginning artists are taught to use a grid to enlarge a sketch or photo, and surely Joni knows about that technique. Chuck Close has made a career out of using such grids. Debra Shea, who's very glad Joni kept her day job for so long. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:55:39 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: A joyful noise NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > _http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17551_ > > It's been strange for me...as someone who's always gone to church every > Sunday and felt renewed and refreshed from corporate prayer, fellowship, worship, > and communion, I now feel betrayal from the church who has failed to step up > and say "Wait a minute - Mr. Bush and his cronies are only draping > themselves in religion, none of their actions are consistent with the teachings of > Jesus Christ!!" Thanks for that link, Bob. I don't understand how any self-proclaimed believer could support the Bush agenda either. The Christian message of peace and love toward everyone is the opposite of what the Bushies are doing, but they're very good at saying one thing and doing its opposite. > I haven't been to church since June. I still have faith & belief in God, I > just have to figure out how best to deal with it. I haven't been in a long time either. It's helpful, I think, to be part of a faith community because it may keep a person's relationship with God from becoming completely self-centered, as in "God talks only to me". And for good works, a group can sometimes accomplish much more than an individual can. Still, it's very hard to be part of a faith community and be constantly fighting against what seems so wrong. I sympathize with your loss, Bob, especially knowing how involved you were in your community. It's a big change to step away from that. When I told a priest friend about my lack of interest in going to church, his reaction was that God has some responsibility in that and his advice was just to keep the relationship open and see what happens. That sounds like what you're doing now, Bob, uncomfortable though it may be for you. Years ago I worked at a busy Lutheran church for a few years as their communications director/graphic designer and if anyone thinks sitting in the pew is tough, seeing a church from the inside is even worse. I'll never work for a church again. However, one good lesson I learned there was from the pastor's wife who told me people will always be disappointed in any church because the ideals aimed for are so high, and will never be reached in pure form all the time, or ever. So that gap between what's aimed for and what's accomplished is where disappointment and anger live, both on a personal and group level. Recognizing and accepting the church community's lack of perfection kept me going for a long time, but these days there are other fights I'd rather put my energy toward. Even though official church rules say it's sinful for a Catholic to not go to mass every week, I don't feel a bit of guilt about not going. I refuse to believe that God is so puny I'll only be loved or loving if I follow such man-made rules. Nope, not buying it. The mysterious spirit that binds us all might visit church once in a while, but it sure doesn't live there. It's a more generous spirit than that and uncontained by any set of rules or any particular place, and is available to everyone everywhere all the time. Sometimes church can get in the way of knowing that spirit. All of that is to say, good luck Bob. Every faith journey is unique and if a person's genuinely open to reaching beyond one's self, it's always an uncomfortable challenge at least part of the time. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:13:47 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A joyful noise NJC **All of that is to say, good luck Bob. Every faith journey is unique and if a person's genuinely open to reaching beyond one's self, it's always an uncomfortable challenge at least part of the time. Thanks, Debra - that means a lot. It's funny, the guy who sits beside me at work is Hindu, and I was talking to him about my personal crisis, and he was very sympathetic. He said that he goes to Temple only when his wife makes him, otherwise he has two prayer sessions each day and feels very connected and has no need for corporate worship. It was inspiring to hear him, and ironic because any self-respecting Christian should be trying to show a Hindu the error of his ways, right? (I'm being sarcastic). I was thinking that he is much more spiritually connected than me certainly, and most likely more so than most 'once a week' Christians. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:14:04 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell Sings Joni Mitchell" (Pink Dress Video) simon@icu.com wrote: > > at the "Pink Dress Concert". > > the actual title of the program is "Joni Mitchell Sings Joni Mitchell". > this 50 min. version was never 'Broadcast' > this was an 'In-House' Production Screener. > that's why there's a timing strip across the screen. > > these songs were selected from a longer program and are the > songs selected by the producer for consideration and use in the > final broadcast version. So- 1) Is it possible that the full uncut master exists somewhere in the BBC vaults, record company vaults, or Joni's own stash? 2) maybe ACOY was one of the songs cut 3) We've seen "Neil Young Sings Neil Young" and Cat Stevens from this series (on Trio sporatically for a year or two), but no Joni-wasupwithat? 4) There is no #4 5) These appear to be shot on video not film, I think. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:25:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Republican convention (NJC) Debra- Great description of the march! Amy Goodman said there were half a million people out there (like Woodstock) There was police harrassment, too. CNN seems more interested in showing the rich white guys throwing their vanity party inside the building than the throngs of regular people in the streets... ++vote these thugs out of office and into jail where they belong++ RR dsk wrote: > Kate Bennett wrote: > > > > ... I hope the nyc > > protest will be as well organized... > > The huge protest today was great!!! I got out of the subway at 18th > Street and 7th Avenue this morning, right into the crowd, and it brought ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:08:23 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: k. d.'s Joni covers Richard Goldman wrote: > Ok guys, don't get me wrong. I love Joni as much as the next of you > all.... but by far, the best song on k.d.'s new album of covers of > Canadian artists, is the final track, Jane Siberry's "Love Is > Everything", in my humble oppinion, lyric change in ACOY or not, it's > still Jane's song that nails the album for me. > ~Richard in San Francisco I would have a hard time arguing with that, Richard. "Love Is Everything" is an amazing song and k. d. sings it exquisitely. Beautiful melody and gut wrenching lyric. Siberry has earned my respect in a big way as a first rate songwriter with this song alone. 'The Valley' ain't bad either. Mark E. in Seattle PS: Patrick, I picked up a copy of 'Bound By the Beauty' this weekend. Counldn't find 'When I Was a Boy'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:19:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Jonifest - back from the garden I got back from Jonifest around 6:30, after being dropped off here by Sue Cameron from Detroit. Sue will probably home in about two hours from now. I am tired as hell, suffering from severe sleep deprivation but bolstered by the high of having spent a long weekend with some of the coolest people on the planet. I took tons of photos and have already uploaded my digital ones to my computer and will bring the rest of the film to be developed tomorrow. I'm trying to post a sampler of photos to my yahoo photos but they're having network problems & I could only get two on. I will post later and will add photos when I can. In the meantime, here is the link to the photos album. ca.photos.yahoo.com/anima_rising ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:38:47 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Jonifest (very long) Clear Day After so many years of not attending Jonifest for one reason or another, this year I (we) finally made it. To anyone out there contemplating, get thyself to one of these amazing gatherings before they dry up! You don't get much sleep and the tap water is yellow, but to quote Paz, "You can sleep when you're dead," uttered around 2 AM on the way to the barn to play, sing, and drink hours more. I do not think I can rightfully credit all of the fabulous people who welcomed us and made it such a memorable couple of days, but I will attempt to try to name a few. Firstly, I must thank Paz again for encouraging Dan and I to attend and nudging him to sing and play his guitar. Having personally met you in NOLA last year was really the impetus for our attendance. What a joy to see you wild and free in the Catskills. Hey, Dan wants to know what that dirty song is you kept playing and singing about "screw all my friends, steal all my records....." he wants to learn it! Ashara is SO utterly siquomb! Thanks for your attention and generosity.Your "world music debut" gave me chills- you were absolutely born to sing it. Lori, my Canton, Ohio sis was the best little ambassador a gal could ask for! Thanks for all the direction and behind- the -scenes catch ups! You go girl on that Yamaha. Strings is about the most delightful and darling diva from the UK imaginable. Thanks for the gorgeous music. To the male Stryngs: Chris, Les, Derek, and Martin you guys ain't too shabby either. Carry on mates, see you in October in London. I'll be in touch for some UK travel advice. We listened to your CD the whole drive back from the garden. Smashing! Victor, the gentle Georgian.guitarist! (keyboardist Human Wurlitzer, and technician..et al) What a sweet, kind, loving, childlike disposition. I want to package his innocent, consuming love of music and send it off to the music industry execs. Good luck to you and have fun cooking in that Blue pot! Thanks for all your devotion to the creation of such beautiful music for us all to enjoy. Maggie, you are such a sweetheart and cutie and bubbly little thing. You take care of business with such warmth and charm. Thanks for rigging the raffle so we could win so much cool stuff! I still do not know how to exactly explain the Donald-Joni tonguing print to my friends or relatives. Any ideas on where you would hang it? All of the performers at this party blew us away. I can not wait to watch last year's DVD's ( thanks to the raffle) to see and hear you all perform again. I know I have blabbed enough- you just do not know how fabulous you made our weekend. To all of you nonperformers I met and spoke to and failed to mention by name (please accept my apology for lack of space) never fear, you are near and dear in my heart and mind. I am smiling thinking of you all. Hey Smurph, the Sugarpants script should be published on the website, it was brilliant. I esp. loved the part about "acting like tourists" bit thrown in from her Isle of Wight lecture to the crowd. So witty and comical. Thanks to everyone involved in this event. Departing was like leaving Home to come back to where we live. Much love and kisses, Janine P. S. Anyone know if John and his mother, Maura, made it back to the city. I am so cracking up thinking of them on the porch of Full Moon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:23:28 -0600 From: Rob & Tracy Subject: kds joni covers > kd changed to a genderless pronoun but she's not calling the object > of her affections "it". "It" is the flawed but viable relationship. > "It" might be a marraige. Exactly! I guess if it's a midwestern expression, maybe it's my Iowa roots that are showing. But the meaning was clear to me from the first time I heard it. And it only alters the meaning very slightly if at all. OK, now I have to chime in - although I too understood the meaning from the beginning, it still bothers me, and I'll tell you why: part of a good song, and a good cover of a song, for that matter, is the ways in which it can suck you in, if you will... the way you can feel it. Thus, even though kd is a lesbian, if she sang the original lyrics, and pulled it off, I think it would be all that more powerful, especially with us knowing that while there is no way she'll "go to HIM", she still sings so passionately and emotionally that we are there with her. Ok, that probably didn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense, but I can't think of how to articulate this any better. It's like when I sing Joni (to myself, in my car, at the top of my lungs, mind you), I never change gender, because (I don't know how to make this sound good so that I don't come off like some sort of nutcase) the power and emotion is there, and you just sort of become part of that experience - LOL, I really don't know how to say this... for instance, if I am listening to the radio, ain't no way I would be comfortable yelling "let's hear it for the boy" but at the same time, I can sing at the top of my lungs to Joni's music that I like "roses and kisses and pretty men to tell me all those pretty lies" and that seems authentic to me, because of the power of Joni's lyrics and voice. It's like the Counting Crow's versin of BYT - I have never been a fan of any covers of that song, but that one was allright, until the "and a big yellow taxi took my girl away..." part. It just sounds so.... gross and bland without the old man. But anyway, that's my humble opinion (and anyway, as much as I like kd's covers of Joni, I LOVE her covers of Neil Young even more...) Evian p.s. - when Melissa Etheridge came out, I admit I had to completely rethink the whole first album, because I was so obsessed with it, and pictured Missy singing those songs about some biker dude or something... LOLOL... God, there is no better album than that one to obsess about someone with.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:07:12 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: August 31 On August 31 the following articles were published: 1974: "Super Female Group?" - Washington Star News (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=778 1979: "Joni Mitchell comes back with jazz and the Persuasions" - Salem Sunbeam (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=886 2000: "The Awful Truth" - E! Online (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=712 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:02:21 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Dan Fogelberg SJC I read recently that Dan Fogelberg has announced he has advanced prostate cancer. He's reportedly undergoing treatment and is feeling positive about the outcome. I thought I remembered reading that he and Joni had had a relationship or met or worked on some music together or something but I don't find anything in the JMDL archives. Anyone remember such a thing? I'm sorry to hear this as he's made some stunning music (and what a good-looking man). Lindsay ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #363 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)