From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #331 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, August 2 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 331 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: refuge of the roads dvd review [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] K.d. alert [Jerry Notaro ] Re: bargains [Jerry Notaro ] small correction, [simon@icu.com] Re: small correction, [Jerry Notaro ] (NJC & PC) The flip side of PNAC [Lori Fye ] (NJC & PC) Want to see your neighbors' political sentiments? [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread [Lori Fye ] Re: Kerry, I'll put on some silver. NJC [Lori Fye ] (NJC) Upon further reflection [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: small correction, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] [dsk ] Today's Bushie phrase (NJC and PC) [dsk ] NJC Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.co] Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] [Smurfycopy@] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [vince ] Re: NJC Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! [Smurfycopy@a] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [Lori Fye ] Re: DC and NYC terror alerts (NJC and US PC) [dsk ] Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] [Lori Fye ] Re: (NJC) Capitol Hill Blue [dsk ] Re: DC and NYC terror alerts (NJC and US PC) [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection [vince ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 06:27:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: refuge of the roads dvd review **Shout Factory $14.99 Ships August 24 Even though it's not new stuff, it's pretty neat that there's Joni-related material coming out three months in a row. This one I'm planning on getting. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Here At The Western World" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:30:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: K.d. alert K.d. Lang live in concert on the Today Show. Maybe we9ll get a Joni song. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:32:04 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: bargains > If anyone wants to pick up a copy of 'The Beginning of Survival' for a nice > price, Circuit City has > it for $11.99. They are also have k. d. lang's new one on sale for the same > price. > > Your Happy CD Shopper, > Mark E. in Seattle > I had put in a preorder for anyone wanting to sell their copy. Already snagged a sealed, new copy for $5.98!!!!!! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:48:47 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: small correction, Jim L'Hommedieu writes ... > Emily, > > Yes. Here's another. Wayne Shorter's wife, Anna, passed away in > mid-air over Lockerbee, Scotland when some terrorists blew up the plane. > > Hence the lines (later on) > > "A plane went blinking by and I thought of Anna." Jim, a small correction seems in order. "On July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800, a Boeing 747 bound for Paris, exploded shortly after takeoff from New York's Long Island, killing all 230 people on board. Wayne Shorter lost his wife of 26 years, Ana Maria, 47, and his niece Dalila Lucien, 17." on the other hand ... "Pan Am Flight 103 was downed over Lockerbee, Scotland by a terrorist bomb on Dec. 21, 1988. 270 people were killed aboard the Boeing 747. Libya was accused of responsibility for the bombing, which killed 259 people onboard and 11 on the ground. Two Libyan operatives, Abdel Basset al-Megrahi and A-Amin Khalifa Fahimah, were indicted in 1991 and thought to be in hiding in Libya. They were sent to the Netherlands for trial in 1999 and implicated Mohammed Abu Talb, a Palestinian terrorist jailed in Sweden." as for the lyric quoted: TAMING THE TIGER I stepped outside to breathe the air And stare up at the stars Big dipper hanging there Over the rented car Over the rented car I'm a runaway from the record biz From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids Boring! The old man is snoring And I'm taming the tiger (You can't tame the tiger) Tiger, tiger burning bright Nice, kitty kitty Tiger, tiger burning bright Sophia says "It's hard to catch And harder still to ride The time to watch the beast the best Is when it's purring at your side" Purring at your side Accolades and honors One false move and you're a goner Boring! The old man is snoring And I'm taming the tiger (You can't tame the tiger) Tiger, tiger burning bright Nice, kitty kitty Tiger, tiger burning bright In the forest of the night The moon shed light On my hopeless plight As the radio blared so bland Every disc, a poker chip Every song just a one night stand Formula music, girly guile Genuine junkfood for juveniles Up and down the dial Mercenary style I watched the stars chuck down their spears And a plane went blinking by And I thought of Anna Wild and dear Like fireworks in the sky Fireworks in the sky I'm so sick of this game It's hip, it's hot Life's too short, the whole thing's gotten Boring! The old man is snoring And I'm taming the tiger (You can't tame the tiger) Tiger, tiger burning bright Nice, kitty kitty (Boring!) Tiger, tiger burning bright (You can't tame the tiger) Oh, be nice, kitty kitty (Boring!) Tiger, tiger burning bright Nice, kitty kitty (Boring, boring!) Tiger, tiger burning bright (Fight to the light, fight to the light) In the forest of the night Copyright ) 1998 andmoreagain, - ------------------ simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:26:28 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: small correction, I just explored some of the hyper links in the JMDL lyric site. As a former English teacher and now University Librarian I must say how impressive it is. It goes way beyond even commercial databases that we pay for here at USF. Huge kudos to Les and anyone else working on this. I hope Simon's vast knowledge on these lyrics are being saved for further addition. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:46:31 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC & PC) The flip side of PNAC Stumbled upon this while surfing last night: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:58:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC & PC) Want to see your neighbors' political sentiments? Check out http://www.fundrace.org, click on "Neighbor Search," input your zip code and see the results. This goes hand-in-hand with http://www.oldamericancentury.org/big_push.htm Lori, misbehaving again ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:48:49 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread I just returned from visiting recent archives and am dismayed by this thread, which I apparently missed the firs time around -- probably due to the word "shopping" because I really hate everything about shopping and usually give the middle finger to malls and all those glassy-eyed people caught in the dreary gap between as I pass them in my travels. My shopping rant aside ... Buck wrote: > Kate, that cute lil sloganeer, gave us: > >> War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is >> strength. > > How very 1984! Several people took issue with Buck's "dismissal" of Kate as a "lil sloganeer," and subsequently a volley of additional insults was released. For the record, I did not take offense to Buck's "characterization" of Kate although I might have if I were not so dense at times, or a better feminist, or something. However, as concern characterizations, Smurf referred to Buck, my friend of 27 years, as "this idiot." Okay Bob, I know you and Buck have had your disagreements and have sworn to stop opening one another's posts, but really ... an idiot? You don't know the man. Buck's conservative viewpoint, while something I don't agree with, is but one aspect of him. As it is with Kakki and, ahem, even Marcel. Further, Smurf wrote: > And the slimeball still hasn't apologized to Lori for calling her an > intolerant liberal or whatever drivel he wrote when he accused her of making > fun of a regional accent because she criticized W's use of the > word "nucular." Remember that? Barely. And guess what? Buck -- who can be a piggish str8 guy, I guess, but who definitely doesn't qualify as a "slimeball" -- didn't apologize to me because he knows he doesn't need to. And the reason he doesn't need to is not because I didn't ask (although I didn't), but because I don't take this shit so seriously! HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR, PEOPLE, AND LIGHTEN UP. > If I am to be known by my enemies, thank God for giving me this unevolved > jerk who is everything I strive not to be. Land of snap decisions Land of short attention spans Nothing is savored Long enough to really understand I'm not really angry with you or anyone, Smurf, but I'm damn sad that this thread got so out of hand and that Buck has since unsubbed. Who will leave us next? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:05:35 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread Lori writes: << Okay Bob, I know you and Buck have had your disagreements and have sworn to stop opening one another's posts, but really ... an idiot? >> Gee, Lori, I always did want to thank you for your support when he called me an asshole for calling him to task over his drivel. And you have a problem with me calling him an idiot? I am sure Buck is just the most wonderful human being on earth, much like Marcel, but his posts didn't endear him to me or anyone else. It took weeks to hear anyone (translation; you, and no one else) bemoan his exit from the list. That speaks volumes. I only regret that I was on what he called his "KILL LIST" and he therefore would never have gotten to read the post from me that you reference. By the way, I have no idea what "sworn to stop opening one another's posts" refers to, other than him putting me on his KILL LIST. I never swore to stop opening his posts. You're either making that up or your memory's faulty. A fucking break would be nice, - --Smurf "I was getting my makeup done, and it just hit me: I love Nick, but I need time alone. I called my psychic, and I asked her opinion. . . I went straight to the Kabbalah Center and got a new bracelet." --Paris Hilton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:07:14 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread Lori writes: << HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR, PEOPLE, AND LIGHTEN UP >> Thanks for the advice, Lori. I'll really work on getting a sense of humor. - --S "I was getting my makeup done, and it just hit me: I love Nick, but I need time alone. I called my psychic, and I asked her opinion. . . I went straight to the Kabbalah Center and got a new bracelet." --Paris Hilton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:18:17 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread > Gee, Lori, I always did want to thank you for your support when he called me > an asshole for calling him to task over his drivel. And you have a problem > with me calling him an idiot? My bad, Bob, and I honestly mean that. Buck should not have called you an asshole and I should've called him out for it. So, belatedly: Buck, you were an asshole for calling Bob an asshole. Don't do it again. He's my friend too. > I am sure Buck is just the most wonderful human being on earth, much like > Marcel, but his posts didn't endear him to me or anyone else. It took weeks > to hear anyone (translation; you, and no one else) bemoan his exit from the > list. I only just noticed it. My life doesn't revolve around the JMDL anymore and so I don't keep up with absolutely everything that goes on here. I miss a LOT of posts. And lately, the more I read the less inclined I am to keep up with it at all, and I'm sure no one would bemoan my departure anymore than they did Buck's. Or if they did, they'd get over it soon enough. > You're either making that up or your memory's faulty. It's the latter, I promise. 46 and peri-menopausal, plus all the booze I drank, dope I smoked, and acid I dropped in years past. > A fucking break would be nice I agree, and that goes for everyone. Sorry to have bitched, but I just fucking hate seeing people -- anyone -- leave the list because of disagreements about politics, of all things. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:23:42 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) The "Shopping" thread I wrote: >> HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR, PEOPLE, AND LIGHTEN UP. Smurf responded: > Thanks for the advice, Lori. I'll really work on getting a sense of humor. I have to admit I've just cracked myself up. The IRONY! What I was referring to, though, was the way people get so goddamn serious about politics on this list. We're supposed to be friends, but if we disagree about political opinions, then start drawing borderlines and get all hateful about it. Don't get me wrong; I'm serious about my politics. I spend much of my day reading and sharing, and donating money to organizations that will advance getting Shrub out of office. But I'm not going to stop being friends with people that I otherwise like just because we don't agree on who should be running the country or the world. Maybe I'm an asshole for that. But I'm not going to do it. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:21:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Kerry, I'll put on some silver. NJC Deb wrote: > I'm hoping that some of those independents who dislike Bush but "didn't know > enough" about Kerry might have had a similar reaction. At first read I thought it said "had a similar erection." I think I've seen too many Levitra commercials lately. Lori, who will vote for Kerry for sure ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:48:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! Well, the ghoul hand tears yet another page off of the calendar and as we begin a new month we celebrate yet another volume of the greatest compilation in Rock & Roll history (in my opinion only), Volume 55 of Joni covers. Once again, we have gathered up 20 tracks from all corners of the world, some old, some new, some great, and some not-so-great. As always, my sincere and heartfelt thanks to the folks who helped me collect this month's bounty: Catherine McKay Paul Maggio And here's what's on it: 1. Sam Stephens &Anne-Lennox-Martin - Amelia: From the UK, this duo gives Amelia a very folkish treatment, very different. 2. Bruce Foulke - Both Sides Now: A recent and rather bland instrumental. 3. Vickie Maree-Loach - Big Yellow Taxi: From New Zealand, Vickie pretty much parrots the Amy Grant version. 4. Tom Barman & Guy van Nueten: From Belgium, these guys also record as dEUS, and they've done River live for awhile. They released this CD last year with an 'official' version. Very nice. 5. The Henry's - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: From Canada, this instrumental is different-sounding, lots of slide guitar sounds give it a lazy day feel. 6. Phillip Keveren - Both Sides Now: This one is also an instrumental, BUT it's not bland by a long shot; a beautiful arrangement for solo piano and executed just as beautifully. A real pleasure! 7. Don McLean - Baby I Don't Care (You're So Square): Yes, it's the 'American Pie' guy doing a live version of the rockabilly number. I'll bet lots of people have told him to sing "A Starry Night" again, man! 8. Aces & Eights - Raised On Robbery: Basic bar band live recording; lots of fun & energy. Not sure where they're from, but if they play your town, go chack 'em out & request this one. 9. Riguelle & Hautekiet - How Do You Stop: Another entry from Belgium! This one's great too...pretty piano and the vocal is very rich. 10. Chris Portigal - Both Sides Now: Another rare & obscure version, best as I can figure Chris was a singer-songwriter guitarist from the US/West Coast. 11. Phyllis Chapell - Blue/When Sunny Gets Blue: A beautiful medley, Phyliss boasts a 3-octave range and the ability to sing in 9 languages. 12. Jim Harmon - The Circle Game: This recent and very tender version is from Jim's lullaby CD. Hear a clip at: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jimharmon 13. The Accidentals - A Case Of You: Another acapella Joni cover, this time from Carleton College in Northfield MN. And a good job they do with it as well. ACOY lends itself well to an acapella treatment I would say. 14. Eva Svobodova - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: I believe that Eva is from Poland; this version is a nice jazz vocal version with Joni's lyric and a nice stinging electric lead guitar. 15. Jim Ohlschmidt & Paul Kowalski - Both Sides Now: I happen to think that this recording is pretty darn great! Both of these midwesterners play acoustics and they duet with a couple of different styles, picking up the pace a couple of times and really working well together. Think Chet Atkins-Mark Knopfler duets and you can imagine what this is like. 16. Ann Hampton Callaway - Twisted: Ann's a great jazz vocalist, and this take on the Wardell Grey tune features some splendid backup vocalists as well, and a very unique intro..."I love to quibble, with every part of Sybil"... 17. Billy Davidson - Night Ride Home: Billy's voice is very easy & smooth, and he mimics Joni's arrangement on this popular song. He does change the line to "I love the girl beside me"...I've also heard "I love you here beside me" which of course is much more universal. 18. Kate & CJ - River: Hailing from Stroudsburg, PA, here's another duo of two females much in the style of The Indigo Girls. Really pretty, as is usually the case with River covers. 19. Mike Beck - Both Sides Now: From Montana comes yet another lovely acoustic guitar take on the standard. Besides music, Mike has a tack shop and is a real cowboy, sort of a throwback to the Roy Rogers/Gene Autry school I suppose. 20. Irwin Ross & His Orchestra - The Circle Game: Done in the revved-up Ian & Sylvia style, this instrumental features a trumpet and harmonica soloing. And with that we close another chapter in the seemingly never ending novel of Joni covers. Thanks if you read all the way to here. And I've got another little contest ready to give some copies away, so stay tuned and find out how you can win. Bob NP: Tori Amos, "God" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 15:17:25 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: refuge of the roads dvd review SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **Shout Factory $14.99 Ships August 24 > > Even though it's not new stuff, it's pretty neat that there's Joni-related > material coming out three months in a row. This one I'm planning on getting. The price is certainly right, and historically, Joni's video products have gone out of print after release, sooner or later. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:21:41 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: (NJC) Upon further reflection The nice person inside of me wants to apologize for the bitch inside of me. Bob, you know I care about you and enjoy your friendship, even though you and I really don't know each other very well. I'm sorry if I offended you or hurt your feelings today -- or before. I'm just real tired of the way people are personally attacked on this list when political opinions are exchanged and disagreed upon. I cannot understand why we can't recognize and celebrate the things we have in common, rather than focus on the few things we don't. The fact that we all love and "get" the music and lyrics (and other art) of Joni Mitchell should speak volumes about each of us. We're intelligent and -- perhaps like Joni -- at times pretty arrogant about that. Those of us (by "us," I mean the members of the JMDL) on the "left" generally consider ourselves to be socially progressive and we claim that we prefer inclusivity over exclusivity. I believe that those of us on the "right" feel the same way. Regardless, some of us alienate each other to the point of causing people to leave this community through personal attacks. Can we please just rise above that and leave the name calling and snide remarks and insults behind? Display more humor and wear thicker skin? It shouldn't be that hard to do. Peace starts with each ONE of us. Lori, sad to have started some shit today and hoping to move forward with ALL of my friends beside me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:35:03 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection Lori writes: << Can we please just rise above that and leave the name calling and snide remarks and insults behind? >> The fact that Bucko has left the list should help in a major way. I never engaged in any name calling or snide remarks with him until he lashed out at me, calling me an elitist Bostonian or some crap like that that I really don't care to research, but feel free to do so -- it's all in the archives. And this was over me saying that the military is madde up of middle- and lower-class people, which is a fact, of course, but your friend decided to criticize me as if I were some upper-class effete intellectual, which we all know I am not. Lori, if you're really looking for a place where people constantly turn the other cheek when attacked by the likes of Bucko, may I suggest the Jesus Christ list? Bucko is gone from this list, I suppose, because no one but you liked him. It has nothing to do with his politics and everything to do with his attitude, which sucked. The only thing I miss about him are the off-list words of encouragement I used to get (sound familiar, Lori?) from people whenever I took him on. - --Smurf "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:37:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! Muller writes: << And I've got another little contest ready to give some copies away, so stay tuned and find out how you can win. >> Damn, Ghoul Hand, I can't take the suspense. - --Smurf "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:50:58 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: small correction, njc I stand corrected. Bryan and Simon have set me straight. All the best, Jim simon@icu.com wrote: > Jim, > a small correction seems in order. > "On July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800, a Boeing 747 bound for Paris, > exploded shortly after takeoff from New York's Long Island, > killing all 230 people on board. > > Wayne Shorter lost his wife of 26 years, Ana Maria, 47, > and his niece Dalila Lucien, 17." > > > on the other hand ... > > > "Pan Am Flight 103 was downed over Lockerbee, Scotland by a terrorist > bomb on Dec. 21, 1988. 270 people were killed aboard the Boeing 747. > Libya was accused of responsibility for the bombing, which killed 259 > people onboard and 11 on the ground. Two Libyan operatives, > Abdel Basset al-Megrahi and A-Amin Khalifa Fahimah, were indicted in > 1991 and thought to be in hiding in Libya. They were sent to the > Netherlands > for trial in 1999 and implicated Mohammed Abu Talb, a Palestinian > terrorist > jailed in Sweden." > > > as for the lyric quoted: > > > TAMING THE TIGER > > I watched the stars chuck down their spears > And a plane went blinking by > And I thought of Anna > Wild and dear > Like fireworks in the sky > Fireworks in the sky > Copyright ) 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:23:56 -0400 From: dsk Subject: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] Lori Fye ended her message with: > > Lori, > sad to have started some shit today and hoping to move forward with ALL of my > friends beside me Sounds good to me. It was bizarre that you stirred up something that had finished weeks ago. I didn't know Buck had left the list. I just figured he'd taken a break, as he's done before, and as many people do. It's not surprising because I can't imagine any conservative being comfortable on this list, in the same way I wouldn't be comfortable on a country-music list if almost everyone was a conservative born-again Christian and I wasn't open to that. It wouldn't matter if I loved the music. My discomfort wouldn't be THEIR fault OR my fault, it just wouldn't be a good fit. That happens here, and often in "real" life, too, and scolding anyone about it doesn't make any sense to me. Anyway, that's how I see it. Lori, what I'm most wondering about today is how you're doing down in Washington, with all the terrorist alerts and extra security (and a side issue is wondering whether starting some shit today is, for you, emotionally related to what's happening). In NYC, it feels like people are quieter, just doing the basics. It feels like a subdued, almost depressed mood. I was in midtown near Madison Square Garden today and didn't see anything out of the ordinary (although "ordinary" now sometimes includes groups of cops encased in black carrying black machine guns, or having to walk blocks out of your way to get somewhere because streets are shut down without warning). People are usually so chatty here, but not today. What's happening where you are? Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:45:44 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection I wrote: > Can we please just rise above that and leave the name calling and snide > remarks and insults behind? Smurf replied: > The fact that Bucko has left the list should help in a major way. and: > Lori, if you're really looking for a place where people constantly turn the > other cheek when attacked by the likes of Bucko, may I suggest the Jesus > Christ list? And this is exactly what I mean. "Bucko"? I should join the Jesus Christ list? You think the fact that Buck has left the list should help in a major way? I seriously doubt it. And what I'm reading between the lines (call it my imagination if you will) is that as long as nobody challenges the predominant liberal opinions on this list, all well be just swell. Yeah, right. Or maybe that should be "left." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:51:38 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Today's Bushie phrase (NJC and PC) "taking the war on the offense" and how great that is because we NOW have specific info regarding planned terrorist attacks in DC and NYC. The info was on the computer of the high-level terrorist recently captured by the Pakistanis. So I say, yeah, being aggressive in Afghanistan is a good idea, BUT the Bushies will slide that "offensive war" and its benefits to cover invading Iraq also, and weren't they great for doing that?, and at that point I say, I despise the tactics of those slithering manipulators. First time I heard that phrase was from Bush in his brief press conference early this afternoon. Second time was a brief live interview with Condoleeza Rice on the evening news. Third time was a few minutes ago from the Republican campaign chairman on a news talk show. Guess they all got the script for today and memorized their line. By tomorrow, those "free thinking" Bushie voters will be repeating it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:56:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! **Damn, Ghoul Hand, I can't take the suspense. Patience, Papa Smurf...I'll announce it tomorrow and maybe you too can be a 'Lucky Ghoul'! Meanwhile, in the name of PEACE, let's all go dig through the archives and find some old thread to fight about - wait a minute, that doesn't make much sense, does it? Scratch that. Bob NP: The Marshmallow Coast, "Little Pythageras" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:00:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] Debra inquired: > Lori, what I'm most wondering about today is how you're doing down in > Washington, with all the terrorist alerts and extra security (and a side > issue is wondering whether starting some shit today is, for you, > emotionally related to what's happening). > What's happening where you are? I live in Aspen Hill, near Rockville, and work in Bethesda -- about 12 and 8 miles north of the White House, respectively. Whatever is going on downtown hasn't really affected me at all; in fact, I was barely cognizant of it all day. I saw "the troops" on tv this morning, but it's like a bad movie and I just turned it off. I refuse to allow Ridge's latest terror alert to bother me. As far as I'm concerned, it's a blatant attempt to strike fear into the hearts of naive Americans once again, so they'll have terrorists on their minds from now until November 2, and vote Bush in again. I don't believe for one minute that bin Laden, et al, are giving hints as to where they'll strike next, so I ain't playing the game. In fact, I plan to ignore it altogether if possible. So unless "terror" has creeped into my brain on a subconscious level, the answer is no, code orange or whatever the hell is going on had nothing to do with my reaction to the "Shopping" thread and my response to it. I just don't like my friends bashed, and I especially don't like to be used as ammunition in the attack. But thanks for asking and being concerned, Debra. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:10:12 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Today's Bushie phrase (NJC and PC) > The info was on the computer of the high-level terrorist recently > captured by the Pakistanis. Interesting to know. I wasn't aware of that. Thanks, Debra. Lori, paying less and less attention because my mind has been made up to vote for the most viable candidate to beat Bush since, oh, the year 2000 (actually, before that because I voted for Ann Richards too) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:36:48 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection Lori Fye wrote: > > You think the fact that Buck has left the list should help in a major way? I > seriously doubt it. And what I'm reading between the lines (call it my > imagination if you will) is that as long as nobody challenges the predominant > liberal opinions on this list, all well be just swell. Challenging and saying why you believe something is one thing; being snidely dismissive of the other viewpoint (as Buck often was) is another. That doesn't go over well. (And it's probably something I've done more than once myself, without knowing it, so Buck is not the ONLY one here who's done that.) I don't remember Buck ever responding to anything I wrote about politics (I guess that's being "quietly" dismissive), and that was fine with me. I didn't agree with any of Buck's political views, but did like his "this is what I am, take it or leave it" attitude, especially since he didn't seem mean-spirited or vicious (I realize others may have a different impression). Plus, it's likely that Marcel was writing to him as he does to other people on the list, especially those with a conservative viewpoint (and, from what people tell me, Marcel is still full of viciousness and mean spirit), and yet that was never reflected in Buck's emails, and I appreciated that. To anyone who doesn't understand this last paragraph, be thankful. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:51:28 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection > I didn't agree with any of Buck's political views, but did like his > "this is what I am, take it or leave it" attitude, especially since he > didn't seem mean-spirited or vicious (I realize others may have a > different impression). Thank you for saying that, Debra. I didn't find Buck's attitude to be mean-spirited or vicious, either, but then I know him and I also know that a lot of times he has a merry twinkle in his eye when he's writing stuff. (He likes to provoke, as do I.) I requested that people allow for the benefit of the doubt, but that went over like a lead balloon. > Plus, it's likely that Marcel was writing to him as he does to other > people on the list, especially those with a conservative viewpoint (and, > from what people tell me, Marcel is still full of viciousness and mean > spirit), and yet that was never reflected in Buck's emails, and I > appreciated that. To anyone who doesn't understand this last paragraph, > be thankful. I agree it's likely that Marcel has contacted Buck, but I would be surprised if Buck didn't share that news with me. He's never mentioned it, though. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I'll ask, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:02:37 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection If anyone at all is still interested, I wrote: << > Lori, if you're really looking for a place where people constantly turn the > other cheek when attacked by the likes of Bucko, may I suggest the Jesus > Christ list? >> And Lori answered with: << And this is exactly what I mean. "Bucko"? I should join the Jesus Christ list? >> First of all, anyone who calls me "asshole" and gets called "Bucko" in return is getting off easy, okay? And zzzzzzzzzzz I didn't say you *should* join the Jesus Christ list. What I said (for the third time in two posts) is, "if you're really looking for a place where people constantly turn the other cheek when attacked by the likes of Bucko, may I suggest the Jesus Christ list?" It's called humor, Lori. You suggested I try to get some. Lori also said: << And what I'm reading between the lines (call it my imagination if you will) is that as long as nobody challenges the predominant liberal opinions on this list, all well be just swell. >> Uh-huh. It's just your imagination. Again, Bucko acted like a jerk and because he was a jerk I assume he picked up on the fact that he was not well-liked here and that's why he went away. No one banished him because of his politics. The example of his not apologizing to you, Lori, after he accused you of being intolerant of regional accents when everyone -- including at least two Texans - -- wrote to say W's "nucular" had nothing to do with an accent and everything to do with ignorance is typical of his style. And I don't care whether you wanted an apology or not. The fact that he didn't admit he was wrong or thank other listers for the enlightenment or whatever is just typical of his style. And that style did not play well here. You should be glad Joni has nothing to do with this list because she would have been the first one to tell him where to stick his nucular crap. I don't know where you're coming from with this, Lori, but as someone who wrote to me off list on at least one occasion and praised me for a zinger I sent Bucko's way, there's something extremely disingenuous or even abusive about this whole little campaign you've got going. It's weird and I just don't get where you're coming from. Keep it up and I'll put you on my KILL LIST. (That's humor again, or at least an attempt.) - --Smurf, who has wasted all the time he's willing to waste of a precious summer night on this shit about Bucko. Good riddance to bad trash, I say. "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:09:21 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] An increasingly frazzled and incoherent Lori writes: << so they'll have terrorists on their minds from now until November 2, and vote Bush in again. >> Lori, dear, Bush was never voted in in the first place. - --Smurf, growing concerned for Lori, yet wet with anticipation for Covers Volume 55! "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:13:08 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection dsk wrote: > > >Plus, it's likely that Marcel was writing to him as he does to other >people on the list, especially those with a conservative viewpoint > and someone is still sending stuff to Marcel that gets posted here. Don't understand that. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:05:26 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Covers 55 - I can't drive.......FIFTY-FIVE!!!!! Ghoul Hand Luke Muller writes: << Meanwhile, in the name of PEACE, let's all go dig through the archives and find some old thread to fight about >> Death taxes! Death taxes! Death taxes! - --Smurf "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:12:53 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection > I don't know where you're coming from with this, Lori, but as someone who > wrote to me off list on at least one occasion and praised me for a zinger I > sent Bucko's way, there's something extremely disingenuous or even abusive > about this whole little campaign you've got going. It's weird and I just > don't get where you're coming from. I remember praising you for a zinger, Bob. Wish I could remember exactly what the zinger was now, but I do remember it being a good one and that I thought it was funny and that I appreciated it. I don't have any particular campaign going, other than the one I've kept at since just about the day I joined this list in 1997, which is to say that I hate seeing people made to feel unwelcome on the JMDL. And frankly, if we're going to discuss politics at all -- and it's ever so obvious once again that we should not -- I find it boring when there's no one around to argue for the "other" side. I really didn't mean to abuse you, and I'm sorry that my initial diatribe (or subsequent ones) came off that way. > Keep it up and I'll put you on my KILL LIST. (That's humor again, or at least > an attempt.) That one I got! Sorry I didn't get the "Jesus Christ list" joke but I am so NOT a Christian that it ruffles my feathers when anyone suggests I do anything even resembling getting together with Jesus. > Good riddance to bad trash, I say. But see, that one hurts. I think I'm fairly thick skinned, but it still hurts. Me, personally. Perhaps it shouldn't but it does. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:22:47 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: DC and NYC terror alerts (NJC and US PC) Lori Fye wrote: > > I live in Aspen Hill, near Rockville, and work in Bethesda -- about 12 and 8 > miles north of the White House, respectively. Oh, good, so there's some distance. Manhattan is so small that, except for downtown, it feels like everything's nearby. The tv news pictures of the troops downtown on Wall Street didn't effect me much, except for remembering what it was like to walk past similar looking barricades and rows of cops in the weeks after 9/11 when I worked down there. I will never work downtown again. I have to make a couple of trips down there to the courthouse and keep putting it off. > I refuse to allow Ridge's latest terror alert to bother > me. As far as I'm concerned, it's a blatant attempt to strike fear into the > hearts of naive Americans once again, so they'll have terrorists on their minds > from now until November 2, and vote Bush in again. Of course, the Bushies will make us afraid and polls show that when afraid, most people don't want to change presidents. Maybe that's why Bush wasn't very aggressive in Afghanistan. He wanted to stretch the war out at least 3 1/2 years, until the 2004 elections. He says he WILL be reelected (that's HIS word) and I think he would do ANYTHING to make sure that happens. The good of the American people really isn't very important to him or his handlers. His actions show that. I think this alert is real, unlike others where there's a big press conference where Ashcroft or Ridge says we don't have any new information, nothing to say really, except be afraid. Such big productions are usually just before the Democrats have something interesting planned. I guess the idea is that we're all so afraid we can't possibly pay attention to anything the Dems are doing. > I don't believe for one minute that bin Laden, et al, are giving hints as to > where they'll strike next, so I ain't playing the game. In fact, I plan to > ignore it altogether if possible. I have some "I refuse to be afraid" times, and then other times where I'm making plans (such as how to avoid the Lexington Avenue subway, which has always seemed like a good target to me), and working evenings because it feels safer to be on the 46th floor of a building in the evening when fewer people are there (too low a body count for the terrorists to attack then), and having a "go" bag prepared in case I have to leave quickly. People talk about it a lot here, the stress that comes and goes, and it always comes down to make as many preparations as you can (and that's not really many), stay alert, hope for the best, and get on with life. > I just don't like my friends bashed, and I especially don't like to be used as > ammunition in the attack. Yeah, people in anger bring out all the ammo. Doesn't make it easy to take, or the right thing to do, but it happens. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:25:37 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection I wrote: << > Good riddance to bad trash, I say. >> And Lori responded with: << But see, that one hurts. I think I'm fairly thick skinned, but it still hurts. Me, personally. Perhaps it shouldn't but it does. >> Sorry. Maybe I went too far with that one, since Norman is your friend. I usually don't glibly call human beings trash, but I just love that phrase. Mmmmmmmmmmwah! - --Smurf, who is so over talking about Norman "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:26:22 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection > You are not unknown columnists in a paper - you are people with whom I have > shared so much, from Columbine and Kosovo through the 2000 election and > September 11th and snipers and economic downtimes and death and births and > pets and family and music and tragedies and art and religion and joys and > life... > we have shared life. Well, it must be my raging hormones, because this is the second time someone on this list has made me cry tonight. And this time I'm having trouble stopping. > and ok, Lori, I never learned a damn thing from Buck. He never gave me > an insight, just sarcasm and glib cliches, rhetoric. That's sad, Vince. I'm having a little trouble believing that you NEVER learned anything from my friend Buck, but if you say so then it is. > And I know he was special to you. You know, it's not that it's so terribly important to me whether Buck is or is not a member of this list. It's always been his choice to be here or not, as it is the choice of each of us. Rather, it's that I really do get upset when people tear each other down with direct personal insults. Perhaps I didn't see clearly and Buck was tearing Bob (and others?) down, but as I said, I know him ... Or maybe it's that he's special to because we served in the Air Force together, doing a demanding job in a rather difficult place. That forges different bonds, and you find you can more easily forgive your differences and those less than perfect expressions of opinion. > I grieve for you who has been such a friend, so wise, caring, insightful, > open, and real. Well, thanks Vince. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:28:05 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: DC and NYC terror alerts [(NJC) Upon further reflection] > Lori, dear, Bush was never voted in in the first place. Oops, my bad. I guess I was thinking of those naive folks who thought they'd elected him. But you're right, of course. LOri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:29:20 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection > and someone is still sending stuff to Marcel that gets posted here. > > Don't understand that. I don't know who would bother, since the archives are accessible by anyone. Is Marcel responding to someone in real time? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:47:36 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: (NJC) Capitol Hill Blue Kate Bennett's excerpt from: > > http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4921.shtml > > ...prominent George Washington University psychiatrist Dr. Justin Frank in > his book Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President. Dr. Frank > diagnosed the President as a "paranoid meglomaniac" and "untreated > alcoholic" whose "lifelong streak of sadism, ranging from childhood pranks > (using firecrackers to explode frogs) to insulting journalists, gloating > over state executions and pumping his hand gleefully before the bombing of > Baghdad" showcase Bush's instabilities. Dr. Frank talked about Bush and his book on an interview show last night. Other things mentioned were Dubya being dyslexic, but never getting help for that, unlike his younger brother Neil did, and how Dubya's brain just doesn't work very well, and that's why he gets so easily frustrated when he has to answer questions. He just can't think complexly. Not a surprise to me, but it's interesting to hear it talked about in medical terms. Bush compensates by keeping everything simple (those slogans he repeats) and under control (having interview questions submitted beforehand) and since he probably can't read well or quickly, having things told to him (but what a waste of time having the CIA director go to the White House every morning to tell Bush the latest CIA news when anyone else would just have read in seconds and understood the written memo; amazing that Bush turned that daily briefing into a good thing; he's PROUD that he doesn't read anything). There was also talk about Dubya's alcoholic behavior, one example being the way he instantly blamed Clinton for what Bush himself did. According to Dr. Frank, blaming others, making others responsible, is typical alcoholic behavior (and maybe it's the same for other addictions, but Dr. Frank didn't say anything about that). I'd read elsewhere of Dubya's putting firecrackers into frogs and blowing them up when he was a kid. Again, not surprising. I never thought there was anything genuine about Dubya's nice guy act, but still it's sickening to read about. And HE's our President?!! And some people want to vote for him again?!!! Ay yi yi! Debra Shea, a tv news/interview show/political talking heads junkie in NYC, and all talked out now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:46:21 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: DC and NYC terror alerts (NJC and US PC) Debra writes: << I think this alert is real, unlike others where there's a big press conference where Ashcroft or Ridge says we don't have any new information, nothing to say really, except be afraid. Such big productions are usually just before the Democrats have something interesting planned. I guess the idea is that we're all so afraid we can't possibly pay attention to anything the Dems are doing. >> Looks like it's all a big fake scare, according to the conservative Drudge Report. Here's what Matty is saying right now on his site: << "Much of the information that led authorities to raise the terror alert at several large financial institutions in the NY and D.C. areas was 3 or 4 years old... NYT Tuesday Page One Splash To Claim: Intelligence and law enforcement officials 'had not yet found concrete evidence that a terror plot or preparatory surveillance operations were still under way'... WASH POST Page One: Alerts Stemmed from Pre-9/11 Acts /// 'There is nothing right now that we're hearing that is new,' said one senior law enforcement official who was briefed on the alert. 'Why did we go to this level?... I still don't know that'... POST: 'Most of the information was compiled prior to the Sept. 11 attacks and that there are serious doubts about the age of other, undated files'... ">> Ugh. I can't stand these people in power. - --Smurf, who would simply toss in the towel if not for Covers to look forward to . . . "Eat, drink and remarry." - --David Sedaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:11:13 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: (NJC) Upon further reflection >Lori who I adore writes: > ><< Can we please just rise above that and leave the name calling and snide >remarks > >and insults behind? >> > Bon who is so cool and yet not into Covers replies: > >The fact that Bucko has left the list should help in a major way. > >I never engaged in any name calling or snide remarks with him until he lashed >out at me, calling me an elitist Bostonian or some crap like that that > Now I missed this whole dispute - sometimes I dump posts without reading because I have enough aggravation in my life and I love people here too much to want to get into various frays. I who have never had a political opinion in my life.. ... ok now that you have had a good laugh.... ... I, who have had some vehement exchanges with others on political matters over the last six years or whatever, have benefited from the conversations because I have learned so much from people with differing opinions. Above all from the list, from the people here, I have been reminded constantly that it is a multi facted prism and one person sees things in a unique view and others also see things in their unique view - - it is far more than two sides to every issue but far more as many facets as a diamond or a crystal and even then we don't see it all but if I look at through the same variety of insights as get presented here I see far more because of you all than I would ever perceive by myself. The JMDL NJC lasts because despite the controversies and this and that and the occasional flame wars and shrillness, and those are occasional, and whatever, we learn so damn much. JMDL NJC is a wondrous op ed page, a running commentary on the life and times that we all share, more so because we know each other and we know the credibility and sincerity and history of those who share their views and insights. And I mean that in the best ways - knowing each other as we do, we are attuned to the life perspectives that each brings to the discussion. You are not unknown columnists in a paper - you are people with whom I have shared so much, from Columbine and Kosovo through the 2000 election and September 11th and snipers and economic downtimes and death and births and pets and family and music and tragedies and art and religion and joys and life... we have shared life. and ok, Lori, I never learned a damn thing from Buck. He never gave me an insight, just sarcasm and glib cliches, rhetoric. And I know he was special to you. Bob is never all that political so when Bob gets going, I listen. I have to identify with what Bob felt. And I grieve that your friend has left the list because I care for you so much. I grieve for you who has been such a friend, so wise, caring, insightful, open, and real. Love to all - Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #331 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)