From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #324 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 28 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 324 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni fans diss-cussing ["c Karma" ] Re: Re: [Deb Messling ] Re: Renaming "insurgents", njc, now Junkies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: njc Gore, Kerry NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Radio Alert ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" [Bill Dollinge] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Em ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Em ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Jerry Notaro ] whoa...TI cover in heaven / pointless speculation [Em ] Re: [Jerry Notaro ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) ["Steven Polifka" ] Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) ["Timothy Spong" <] Re: Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) ["Steven Polif] Re: complaints [LCStanley7@aol.com] lovely landscapes to discover [Kate ] Re: Joni's hand [LCStanley7@aol.com] (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? [simon@icu.com] future plans for a boxed set? [simon@icu.com] Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Randy Remote ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Randy Remote ] Re: future plans for a boxed set? [simon@icu.com] Re: Joni fans diss-cussing [Randy Remote ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni fans discussing [dsk ] RE: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) [colin ] Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? [Lori Fye ] Re: Joni fans diss-cussing [Lori Fye ] Re: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" [dsk ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Jerry Notaro ] Elvis Costello, Joni Mitchell and the Torch Song Tradition [david sapp ] All I want revisited [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:46:04 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Joni fans diss-cussing I don't get it. I don't get how some listers can wonder out loud how Joni can ask us to buy her product. Hello? I can't think of a more earnest piece of self promotion. Her appeal to fans is not, "buy my record because it's really fun to dance to." This is a digital form of playing real good for free. You think that clarinet player she described didn't have an open instrument case in front of him? If you are affected by Joni's words and think that in sum, the songs in this new collection have valid statements that the assembled context strengthens - -- buy it. If you don't get it and don't know anyone who would, then don't. I doubt Joni made much money on much of this material in its first release and she probably won't this time either, but if you believe there's value in the messages within then help share the cost. Testify, people. But don't be surprised if an artist honestly reaches out to her supposedly loving fans to support a project he or she feels strongly about. There's no implied threat of repurcussion here, no "little Twilight Zone boy" comparison to be made and no need to piss on the attempt of an artist to create something that might actually make a difference to someone else. Ask yourselves what difference you have made, and then ask what's on your calendar? CC NP: Me playing "Paprika Plains" on my piano. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:01:27 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Re: It's Joni's perogative not to consider the wishes of her public, but then she shouldn't complain when her releases don't sell. I do think it's sort of odd to disregard the public in planning her release and then specifically ask us to buy multiple copies of it. At 06:19 PM 7/27/2004 -0700, Mark wrote: >Well guess what? It isn't our choice. It's Joni's. The last time I >checked, she doesn't consider >herself to be subject to the wishes of her record buying public. She's >always done what she pretty >much wanted to do. >Mark - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:37:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Renaming "insurgents", njc, now Junkies **i wouldn't want to wish this on any band but please more covers by the junkies. Boy, you got that right Gene. But you forgot to mention my favorite of the covers "17 Seconds", a hard pick as they are all so strong. While I like the vocal and instrumental textures of the Junkies' original material, these covers are so strong they expose the weakness in Timmins' composition. It is to their benefit that their execution of the weaker songs is still engaging. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:41:50 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: njc Gore, Kerry NJC **Thank you Bob for the correction! You're welcome...and I even gave you the chance to return the favor by mentioning Rev. ADLER from Columbia when I should have said Allston. I really dug Barak Obama's speech last night, I can see why everyone is so impressed with him. Hopefully I can vote "Obama For President" one day. I even have his campaign slogan ready: "Barak Raks!" Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Shelter From The Storm" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:27:05 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Joni Radio Alert My friend Aldon from Santa Barbara writes: Joni Mithcell is on KPFK on Tuesday, August 3 -- I definitely heard that part of the announcement -- the URL for listening on line is: http://www.kpfk.org/ I can't find anything about her visit on the web site, but I'm PRETTY sure the time will be 7:00 PM your time -- My time is Eastern time, btw Does anyone else have this information? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:11:46 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) >> More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of >> Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during >> the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting >> together a box set. So there is hope.... How I remember how excited I was when she announced this. Then Hits and Misses followed. Some box set. > > See, now I don't get this. Why would you pine for a boxed set? (No pun > intended.) You don't already have everything Joni has released? Why would > you > want it all again in a boxed set? Why not just make your own box and put the > cds inside? > > Lori, > seriously bewildered Because good box sets contain material that has never been released. Live, rare recordings that even Muller doesn't have! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:08:53 -0400 From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" > "She's given us a *lot* of incredible music over the years. She's > going to be > 61 in November. If she doesn't feel the urge to write new music, so > be it. > She's earned the right to take a break or (heaven forbid!) retire, > imo. And I > refuse to believe that she's releasing TBOS just to be putting out > product. > Why would she need to do that? Is she hard up? I doubt it. I think > she wants > to make a statement with this release. You don't have to like it but > why beat > her up for it? Hasn't she given us enough?" I would take her at her word (since, after all, "joni mitchell never lies," that she does not want to see her geffen catalog disappear, and I thnk that she is issuing this and the previous reissue so that the work remains accessible. Material of the 1970s and even her earliest work of the late 60s, are here to stay. Ditto for TI and NRH, I think. I see this is a business decision meant to shore up an artistic intention. Of course, that doesn't mean I will be buying it. But I hope it charts well. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:25:25 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Bob enlightened me with: > I'm sure that Randy is talking about a 'Rarities' box set, not a compilation > of already released stuff. Oh! That's COMPLETELY different!! Thanks, Bob! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 05:25:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) - --- Lori Fye wrote to Steve and Randy: > See, now I don't get this. Why would you pine for a boxed set? (No > pun > intended.) You don't already have everything Joni has released? Why > would you > want it all again in a boxed set? Why not just make your own box and > put the > cds inside? Hi Lori, my first thought is that with many box sets - you get some unreleased material too, and some alternative versions, etc. Also, some box sets come with "innards" (artwork and or wonderful liner notes) that make it kind of worthwhile. I, as a person who *doesn't* own all Joni's stuff, would really ADORE a career-spanning box set - with material perfectly chosen. As they say, if wishes were fishes we'd alllllllllll cast nets in the sea. :) Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:40:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Em answered by query about boxed sets with: > Hi Lori, my first thought is that with many box sets - you get some > unreleased material too, and some alternative versions, etc. Can you tell I don't own many boxed sets? In fact, I don't think I own one! Mary has Springsteen's on vinyl but I've never been into him (sorry Rose), so I couldn't tell ya what was in it. > Also, some box sets come with "innards" (artwork and or wonderful liner > notes) that make it kind of worthwhile. That, I knew. But TLOG, the Geffen set, and TBOS have liner notes and/or new artwork ... and the unhappiness with those offerings is apparent here. Thinking more about this, I wonder why some of you think that there would be this HUGE market for a boxed set (that included rarities, etc.) from Joni? There has never been a "huge" market for her albums. Why would this be any different? I mean, I would buy it, as would most everyone here. Other people not on this list who are already JM fans would buy it. But beyond that? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 05:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Lori sed: > Thinking more about this, I wonder why some of you think that there > would be > this HUGE market for a boxed set (that included rarities, etc.) from > Joni? > There has never been a "huge" market for her albums. Why would this > be any > different? I mean, I would buy it, as would most everyone here. > Other people > not on this list who are already JM fans would buy it. But beyond > that? I guess I don't think it would be huge. Would be about like Janis Joplin's 3 CD box set. A really nice set for someone to pick up, who has, say, nothing by Joni but who has heard of her and who checks to make sure the set is fairly comprehensive as far as representing all eras of her work. Or for, say a C&S era fan gone astray, who has only cruddy vinyl. Morning Lori! :) Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:03:12 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Em wrote, of the potential market for a true boxed set from Joni: > I guess I don't think it would be huge. Would be about like Janis > Joplin's 3 CD box set. Oh me of little faith ... I'm not sure it would be even THAT successful. > Morning Lori! Morning Em! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:03:09 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) > Em answered by query about boxed sets with: > >> Hi Lori, my first thought is that with many box sets - you get some >> unreleased material too, and some alternative versions, etc. > > Can you tell I don't own many boxed sets? In fact, I don't think I own one! > Mary has Springsteen's on vinyl but I've never been into him (sorry Rose), so > I > couldn't tell ya what was in it. > >> Also, some box sets come with "innards" (artwork and or wonderful liner >> notes) that make it kind of worthwhile. > > That, I knew. But TLOG, the Geffen set, and TBOS have liner notes and/or new > artwork ... and the unhappiness with those offerings is apparent here. > > Thinking more about this, I wonder why some of you think that there would be > this HUGE market for a boxed set (that included rarities, etc.) from Joni? > There has never been a "huge" market for her albums. Why would this be any > different? I mean, I would buy it, as would most everyone here. Other people > not on this list who are already JM fans would buy it. But beyond that? > > Lori > Because "we" are the box set target audience. We already own her catalog, and as "older" by comparison of the 18-24 crowd that buys single cd's, we can afford the box sets. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: whoa...TI cover in heaven / pointless speculation but on earth woulda been so much nicer. Can you imagine a Janis Joplin cover of Turbulent Indigo??? done, sort of ala "Summertime"? The thought kinda makes me want to go piss joyfully in a fireplace.... Gives me the "great shaking fever and a mighty mad disease" just thinking about it...... Why is that song so ignored by artists, as far as covering it? Well I mean obviously Janis can't cover it... but, no one? Does everyone think that song sucks or something? To me its by far the tastiest morsel on TI. I even bought it (again) off iTunes so to have it on my 'puter here at work. Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:06:13 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BS, 100% NJC (aka tBoS) > "Today is a gift. That's why they call it the present!" > > --a quotation from Kiki & Herb in the latest Michael Musto Village Voice > column > And Kiki and Herb got their start at Joni's (and John Kelly's) favorite NY performance club, The Fez. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:30:22 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: No one is criticizing her for not producing new product. If she only released FTR alone I would love her. BUT, you are certainly opening yourself up for legitimate criticism when you re-release material that was just re-released a year ago, when there is so much more in the vaults. Jerry > Jerry Notaro wrote: >> Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just recently >> re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her weakest, >> so why not re-release other, stronger material, with maybe alternate >> recordings, or live versions? I think that is what most of list >> members are expressing. > > Well guess what? It isn't our choice. It's Joni's. The last time I checked, > she doesn't consider > herself to be subject to the wishes of her record buying public. She's always > done what she pretty > much wanted to do. Why should she change now? She's given us a *lot* of > incredible music over the > years. She's going to be 61 in November. If she doesn't feel the urge to > write new music, so be > it. She's earned the right to take a break or (heaven forbid!) retire, imo. > And I refuse to > believe that she's releasing TBOS just to be putting out product. Why would > she need to do that? > Is she hard up? I doubt it. I think she wants to make a statement with this > release. You don't > have to like it but why beat her up for it? Hasn't she given us enough? > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:54:22 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) >>> 07/27/04 09:27PM >>> Steve wrote**Ask and ye shall receive. Bob: Actually, in the case of trying to communicate with Joni's management/record company, it's more like "ask and ye shall be ignored". At least that's been what's happened every time I tried to get information or request something. ** Now Bob, you are my bud, but I couldn't resist about giving you a raft of sh*t about this in my last email. Sometimes I don't know what gets into you about Joni! Sometimes I think you expect to much! Bob: Don't blame me - blame Joni for creating truly inspired and epic work like FTR, C&S, Hejira, TI, etc and then selling out with recycled work that serves no purpose other than to expand her own discography. SHE'S the one that set her own bar so high, I acknowledge and honor that by not allowing her to phone it in now. Of course, she can and will do as she pleases, but I don't give her a free pass based on her past. Of what benefit is blind admiration? She's proven that artistic growth can be maintained in the short-term business of the music business, so now what? We applaud her painting a starry night again & again & again? Bullcrap. Now me: Okay. I do not have blind admiration, and don't want another starry night. I simply accept this 'collection' for what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. It's where Joni's at. Okay... This may be the end of the treasure chest. No one wants to hear that, tho'. I keep on thinking about this boxed set idea. The more I think about it the more I feel that there may not be a single surprise on it. Between you, Simon, Les, and Don, on others (excuse me if I missed someone,) there has been more Jonigold uncovered than ever thought possible. Video from the 60's, the Hissing demo's, every frickin concert she's ever done (almost), the list goes on and on. Maybe she's given enough inspiration that we can go out and inspire ourselves. (Thanks, Joni. As a musician, I really appreciate it!) Best, Steve Bob NP: The White Stripes, "Seven Nation Army" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:54:09 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, the only-Joni Digest included: >Subject: Today's Library Links: July 28 > >On July 28 the following article was published: > > >1966: "Rising Folksinger From Saskatoon Discusses Career" - Saskatoon >StarPhoenix > (Interview) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=639 > ... and therein, we find this quote: "Mrs. Anderson, as proud as a mother could be of her daughter's success, gave details of Joni's career, while we thumbed through a scrapbook filled with press notices of her performances in several major North American cities." A recurring thread on this list has been that one of Joni's inner demons, possibly driving her creativity, is a supposed failure to live up to her mother's expectations and therefore, never realizing Myrtle's full acceptance. A couple of months ago, I offered the existence of Mrs. Anderson's 40 scrapbooks of memorabilia of Joni's public career -- mentioned in other articles accessible from the library links -- as evidence weighing against this theory. I saw no comment -- don't think anybody would have posted a response thereto and labeled it "No Joni Content" so that I wouldn't have seen it. As further evidence against this theory, I present the above quote, which probably refers to a scrapbook in the low single digits among what eventually became 40. Of course, these pieces of evidence don't mean Joni doesn't subjectively feel such a lack of acceptance; they argue that the lack of acceptance objectively isn't there. Comment, anyone? Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. tim_spong@yahoo.com for off-list correspondence _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:47:59 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) Well, I can think of these quotes: "She don't like my kick pleat skirts She don't like my eyelids painted green She don't like me staying up late Livin' for that rock and roll dancin' scene" and "In France they kiss on Mainstreet Amour, Mama, not cheap display" Then: "I got so numb on Christmas Day I couldn't feel my hands or feet I shouldn't have come- she made me pay For gleaming with Donald down on her street She put blame on him, and shame on me She made it seem so taudry and cheap"... Myrtle and Joni's idea of morals are vastly different. I think that is where most of the conflict lies. Does Myrtle think that Joni's lack of 'morals' are because of her success??? That's what I was wondering. However, I do believe Myrtle is proud. Steve >>> "Timothy Spong" 07/28/04 08:54AM >>> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, the only-Joni Digest included: >Subject: Today's Library Links: July 28 > >On July 28 the following article was published: > > >1966: "Rising Folksinger From Saskatoon Discusses Career" - Saskatoon >StarPhoenix > (Interview) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=639 > ... and therein, we find this quote: "Mrs. Anderson, as proud as a mother could be of her daughter's success, gave details of Joni's career, while we thumbed through a scrapbook filled with press notices of her performances in several major North American cities." A recurring thread on this list has been that one of Joni's inner demons, possibly driving her creativity, is a supposed failure to live up to her mother's expectations and therefore, never realizing Myrtle's full acceptance. A couple of months ago, I offered the existence of Mrs. Anderson's 40 scrapbooks of memorabilia of Joni's public career -- mentioned in other articles accessible from the library links -- as evidence weighing against this theory. I saw no comment -- don't think anybody would have posted a response thereto and labeled it "No Joni Content" so that I wouldn't have seen it. As further evidence against this theory, I present the above quote, which probably refers to a scrapbook in the low single digits among what eventually became 40. Of course, these pieces of evidence don't mean Joni doesn't subjectively feel such a lack of acceptance; they argue that the lack of acceptance objectively isn't there. Comment, anyone? Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. tim_spong@yahoo.com for off-list correspondence _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:16:45 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: complaints Lori wrote: The complaints never cease (to amaze me). Hi Lori! I'm amaze with you. But, Joni has always gotten that because she does her own thing regardless. And, it seems that in time, she's appreciated for doing whatever she does despite what the complaints initially were. I really think Joni is all gift and will only increasingly be acknowledged and appreciated as the seasons go round and round to extend far beyond the time of those who have the fortune to be alive at the same time as she. Love and awe, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:08:31 -0500 From: Kate Subject: lovely landscapes to discover Mia: > There's just so much to discover > musically on FTR with each listening session. I find this with every single one of Joni's albums that I have. Yesterday I was listening to Travelogue and, as each time, something I never noticed before jumps out and astounds me with its beauty. I think Joni's "rehashing" of her old songs is well worthwhile and not a rehashing at all -- yeah they're the same songs, but so different! -- and I can say that while listening to them on a pathetic little ghettoblaster on my kitchen table -- imagine what a great sound system would do for it -- and then on the weekend my beau and I heard Magdalene Laundries as we sat listening to our "decent" sound system downstairs, and I could not help repeating her masterful lyrics aloud as she sang them, because her use of words is incredible to me, the images she sets before us. She's a Shakespeare for our times, in a way. Kate du Nord Tears of Joy http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:36:06 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's hand Mia wrote: Perhaps her post-polio syndrome is really taking its toll on her body, particularly in her hands. And this may be why she can no longer play/write new songs. She may truly be beginning her own survival of sorts. Hi Mia, You might be right on sadly to say. As a neuroscientist, I can tell you that the polio virus kills neurons, and when a person ages, regardless of the virus having long been gone, there are fewer numbers of neurons to draw from as a reserve to balance the normal effects of aging in the nervous system. Another concern I have regarding Joni is emphysema related to smoking. Emphysema prevents a person from effectively exhaling which would make singing a real challenge. For sure I'm am praying for Joni to be healthy. In my opinion, we need to love her and support her rather than demand from her and criticize her. There is beauty in aging, and Joni has always been and will always be beautiful in my opinion. "Sweet bird you are, briefer than a falling star, all these vain promises on beauty jars, oh somewhere with your wings on time you must be laughing.... upon your feathers laughing." This reminds me of Joni's soul that even though we might see her as losing time is always soaring, always blessed with vision. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:35:50 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? Jerry Notaro wrote > > Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just > recently re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her > weakest, so why not re-release other, stronger material, with > maybe alternate recordings, or live versions? I think that is what > most of list members are expressing. Jerry, well they're not the same thing now, are they? the GEFFEN Boxed set was a ReMastered ReIssue of all four albums Joni recorded for Geffen Records. given the improvement over the years in digital technology, these new 96k/24-Bit ReIssues present a clear sonic improvement over the '80s and '90s vintage CDs. after all, the 1st album of the Geffen era, WTRF, was released 22 years ago - back when digital recording/mastering was still in it's infancy. even NIGHT RIDE HOME, the one clear Certified MASTERPIECE! of the Geffen era was released 13 years ago. the 4 Geffen Albums were Long OVERdue for UpGraded ReMastering. after all, the Reprise albums and the Elektra/Asylum catalog were all remastered in the late '90s. despite the negative attitudes of some, the only real question is why it took Geffen Records so long to get around to doing the right thing. that some don't like all, or any, of these Albums really doesn't have anything to do with a certain responsibility on the part of Geffen Records to see that this material remains available and in the best available sound quality. The BEGINNING OF SURVIVAL is a Single-CD Anthology of Joni's "politically oriented" material. this Anthology project was initiated by Joni and is a direct result of the time, effort, and energy invested in ReMastering the entire Geffen catalog. when i first heard about this collection last March, only Geffen era material was going to be included. however, given the theme of the project, the addition of the 3 songs selected from TI and TTT are worthy inclusions. in fact, they cry out to be included. given that Joni left Geffen and re-signed with Reprise Records in 1994, it would have been entirely logical for them to have released some sort of Anthology CD 10 years ago. that they are doing so NOW, after recently ReMastering the entire catalog, is no great surprise. it was to be expected. andmoreagain, - ------------------- simon PS: Joni thinks that the Geffen era material is her Best! work. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:37:04 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: future plans for a boxed set? Steven Polifka wrote > > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have > the balls to write her management company - or her, about future > plans for a boxed set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) > Does she know that there would be this HUGE market? Steven, there ARE plans, nothing that's been finalized, nothing that Joni has approved, yet. nothing that's going to happen This! year. on Sept. 14th Rhino Records is releasing a single-CD Anthology collection of Joni's Reprise/Elektra material titled: "Snapshots In A Diary". THIS release IS related to future plans and *Other* releases, that WILL be of great interest to members of this community. this week, a number of meetings took place and are taking place regarding the forthcoming "Snapshots In A Diary" CD. 30-sec., 60-sec., and 90-sec. commercials are being prepared for TV Broadcast use. Rhino is quite serious, but the community is going to have to be patient. there's really no point in doing otherwise. BTW Steven: management rarely has anything to do with record company releases. they handle the 'contractual' arrangements and other financial issues, but not the music. andmoreagain, - ------------------- simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:41:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? > Jerry Notaro wrote > >> >> Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just >> recently re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her >> weakest, so why not re-release other, stronger material, with >> maybe alternate recordings, or live versions? I think that is what >> most of list members are expressing. > > > Jerry, > > > well they're not the same thing now, are they? Only in their packaging. Don't all the selections from TBOS come from the Geffen Box Set, released just last year? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:43:13 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: W joke -- njc George Bush goes to an elementary school to talk about the war. After his talk, he offers question time. One little boy puts up his hand and George asks him what his name is. "Billy." "And what is your question, Billy?" "I have 3 questions. First, why did the USA invade Iraq without the support of the UN? Second, why are you president when Al Gore got more votes? And third, whatever happened to Osama Bin Laden?" Just then the bell rings for recess. George Bush informs the kiddies that they will continue after recess. When they resume George says, "OK, where were we? Oh that's right - question time. Who has a question?" Another little boy puts up his hand. George points him out and asks him what his name is. "Steve." "And what is your question, Steve?" "I have 5 questions. First, why did the USA invade Iraq without the support of the UN? Second, why are you President when Al Gore got more votes? Third, whatever happened to Osama Bin Laden? Fourth, why did the recess bell go off 20 minutes early? And fifth, what the hell happened to Billy?" "Today is a gift. That's why they call it the present!" - --a quotation from Kiki & Herb in the latest Michael Musto Village Voice column ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:50:10 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: future plans for a boxed set? Thanks, Simon, for stepping up with this info. I really, really appreciate this! So another question: are any of these releases material that has not escaped into the JMDL so far? I'm okay with teasers if you can't spill the whole jar! Steve >>> 07/28/04 11:37AM >>> Steven Polifka wrote > > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have > the balls to write her management company - or her, about future > plans for a boxed set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) > Does she know that there would be this HUGE market? Steven, there ARE plans, nothing that's been finalized, nothing that Joni has approved, yet. nothing that's going to happen This! year. on Sept. 14th Rhino Records is releasing a single-CD Anthology collection of Joni's Reprise/Elektra material titled: "Snapshots In A Diary". THIS release IS related to future plans and *Other* releases, that WILL be of great interest to members of this community. this week, a number of meetings took place and are taking place regarding the forthcoming "Snapshots In A Diary" CD. 30-sec., 60-sec., and 90-sec. commercials are being prepared for TV Broadcast use. Rhino is quite serious, but the community is going to have to be patient. there's really no point in doing otherwise. BTW Steven: management rarely has anything to do with record company releases. they handle the 'contractual' arrangements and other financial issues, but not the music. andmoreagain, - ------------------- simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:04:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? So that means 13 of the 16 titles were just re-released in their remastered form less than a year ago. > No. > TI was on reprise, as with TTT and BSN. > >>>> Jerry Notaro 07/28/04 11:41AM >>> >> Jerry Notaro wrote >> >>> >>> Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just >>> recently re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her >>> weakest, so why not re-release other, stronger material, with >>> maybe alternate recordings, or live versions? I think that is what >>> most of list members are expressing. >> >> >> Jerry, >> >> >> well they're not the same thing now, are they? > > Only in their packaging. Don't all the selections from TBOS come from > the > Geffen Box Set, released just last year? > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:04:46 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Radio Alert Unfortunately KPFK does not have a search engine for their site. We will have to keep an eye on them, but I will tell you what happened to me the other day-I was listening to the radio, and I heard them say that (some female singer), (another female singer), and Joni Mitchell had released a new album that was to benefit saving wild mustangs. Of course this glued me to the radio, but after playing a song, they announced it again. Turns out there is a Jenny Mitchell (out of Santa Cruz, CA). Spoken, they sound almost identical. It's possible this is what your friend heard. Btw Tues. 7pm is a political talk show on KPFK. RR Richard Flynn wrote: > My friend Aldon from Santa Barbara writes: > > > Joni Mithcell is on KPFK on Tuesday, August 3 -- I definitely heard that > part of > the announcement -- the URL for listening on line is: > http://www.kpfk.org/ > > I can't find anything about her visit on the web site, but I'm PRETTY sure > the > time will be 7:00 PM your time -- > > > My time is Eastern time, btw > > Does anyone else have this information? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:10:09 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of > >> Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during > >> the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting > >> together a box set. So there is hope.... > > How I remember how excited I was when she announced this. Then Hits and > Misses followed. Some box set. > It's possible that she was talking about Hits and Misses, which came out 9 mos after this show. Then again, H&M were compilation albums, not a box set by any stretch of the imagination. I think there is still hope-look how long she's been "working" on her bio book. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:15:40 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Steven Polifka wrote: > I keep on thinking about this boxed set idea. The more I think about > it the more I feel that there may not be a single surprise on it. > Between you, Simon, Les, and Don, on others (excuse me if I missed > someone,) there has been more Jonigold uncovered than ever thought > possible. Video from the 60's, the Hissing demo's, every frickin concert > she's ever done (almost), the list goes on and on. > It might seem that way, but we only know about what we know about. We don't know about the stuff we don't know about. One biggie that has never been heard is the alternate version of Mingus. Also, lots of things like the Hissing demos are in less than excellent quality as we have them. And if there are Hissing demos, there might be C&S demos, etc, etc. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:18:42 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Re: future plans for a boxed set? Steven wrote in reply to my recent message ... > > Thanks, Simon, for stepping up with this info > I really, really appreciate this! > > So another question: are any of these releases material > that has not escaped into the JMDL so far? > > I'm okay with teasers if you can't spill the whole jar! > > Steve Yes!, MOST of it. andmoreagain, - -------------------- simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:24:28 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni fans diss-cussing c Karma wrote: > I don't get it. I don't get how some listers can wonder out loud how Joni > can ask us to buy her product. Hello? Joni never HAD to ask me to buy Blue, C&S, even TTT or T'log. I find it ironic that people are so upset with criticism of this set, since it consists mostly of songs of criticism! RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:24:44 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) > Jerry Notaro wrote: > >>>> More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of >>>> Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during >>>> the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting >>>> together a box set. So there is hope.... >> >> How I remember how excited I was when she announced this. Then Hits and >> Misses followed. Some box set. >> > > It's possible that she was talking about Hits and Misses, which > came out 9 mos after this show. I'm sure she was. Thus, my sarcastic "Some box set." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:31:10 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni fans discussing Lori Fye wrote: > > ... Has Joni EVER been > predictable? Isn't that she's not predictable one of the things we love most > about her? From what I could see, Joni never willingly went backwards before. Re-releasing old recordings in their original form is a step backward. Until now, she was consistent about pushing forward and staying true to herself and the times and her current experiences (and maybe she thinks she's still doing that with this release). The specific form her creative expression would take was unpredictable, and for me that was always a highly anticipated surprise. Not this time. And maybe never again. That does NOT mean I'm throwing out all my Joni cds. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:33:44 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) And, as Bob Muller tells me in an off-list communication, the 1969 Carnegie Hall show was recorded for release but never released (except fot the two snippets of stage patter on the Warner/ Reprise "Record Show" lp). CBS Sony and Bob Dylan are brilliant in marketing his "bootleg" series, and any serious fan who collects "unofficial" recordings is, of course, the first in line to buy the vastly improved versions. My boot of the Halloween '64 show is now essentially a frisbee. With the right marketing, this kind of Joni stuff would sell quite well, I think. But it remains to be seen whether TBOS will broaden or narrow Joni's audience. Even though it's not my favorite stuff, I'd buy the Geffen Box if I could find it cheap enough second hand. I don't have any plans at present to buy TBOS. Does it make me a disloyal fan if I don't do my part to help Joni get her new CD onto the charts? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Randy Remote Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:16 PM To: Steven Polifka; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Steven Polifka wrote: > I keep on thinking about this boxed set idea. The more I think about > it the more I feel that there may not be a single surprise on it. > Between you, Simon, Les, and Don, on others (excuse me if I missed > someone,) there has been more Jonigold uncovered than ever thought > possible. Video from the 60's, the Hissing demo's, every frickin concert > she's ever done (almost), the list goes on and on. > It might seem that way, but we only know about what we know about. We don't know about the stuff we don't know about. One biggie that has never been heard is the alternate version of Mingus. Also, lots of things like the Hissing demos are in less than excellent quality as we have them. And if there are Hissing demos, there might be C&S demos, etc, etc. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:39:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Is Myrtle proud of Joni? ( onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214) Being proud of Jin's success does not mean acceptance of Joni as she is. From the info available, it would seem that Joni's mother has been criitical, witholding, censorious, shaming of her daugheter. The fact that Myrtl may be proud, quietly, of Joni's musical achievements has nothing to do with it. It is so easy to have pride in what people DO rather than in what they ARE. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:52:18 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni fans diss-cussing > c Karma wrote: > >> I don't get it. I don't get how some listers can wonder out loud how Joni >> can ask us to buy her product. Hello? > > Joni never HAD to ask me to buy Blue, C&S, even TTT or T'log. > > I find it ironic that people are so upset with criticism of this > set, since it consists mostly of songs of criticism! > RR > And, if we hold Joni to a higher standard, so be it. It is what attracted us to her in the first place. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:55:40 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: (TBOS) Why re-release the Geffen material? simon added to his post: > PS: Joni thinks that the Geffen era material is her Best! work. And there, folks, is the answer. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:04:34 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Richard asked: > Does it make me a disloyal fan if I don't do my part to help Joni get her new > CD onto the charts? Since she's asked us to buy TBOS, I believe the answer to your question might be "yes," at least in Joni's estimation. Damn, I wish Joni would pop up on the list and let us know!! Lori, who personally doesn't think any of us are disloyal Joni fans ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:09:12 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni fans diss-cussing Jerry opined: > And, if we hold Joni to a higher standard, so be it. It is what attracted us > to her in the first place. I believe the only person who can or should hold Joni to any standard is Joni herself. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:14:42 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" Lori Fye wrote: > > Yep. Take a peek at the digests back when BSN was released. Granted, BSN was > an album of covers (two of them Joni's own), but OH! the pissin' & moanin' it > generated. I remember a LOT of positive reaction. People were excited about hearing the new version of BSN (the song) on a tv show. People were excited about the tour, and there were many positive reviews about that. Not everyone loved the new big stringy sound, but lots of people did, and the idea of her redoing some old songs with an orchestra was thrilling to many people. I don't think your memory of the comments ALL being negative (except for yours it seems) is accurate. There was plenty of pissing and moaning from people who paid $55 for the candy box version and the cd inside was so scratched up it wasn't playable. Makes sense to me there'd be some complaining about that. > I'm still trying to figure out exactly makes us think we're qualified to 'dis' > Joni's work. So then what makes us qualified to "praise" it? > She's not flawless..., but she's still the best > in my lifetime. Do you really think anyone here would disagree with that? Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:18:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni fans diss-cussing You mean we shouldn't expect more from her artistically than we would from Britney Spears? > Jerry opined: > >> And, if we hold Joni to a higher standard, so be it. It is what attracted us >> to her in the first place. > > I believe the only person who can or should hold Joni to any standard is Joni > herself. > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:20:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Well, even without my purchase, it is #107 on Amazon today. Jerry > Richard asked: > >> Does it make me a disloyal fan if I don't do my part to help Joni get her new >> CD onto the charts? > > Since she's asked us to buy TBOS, I believe the answer to your question might > be > "yes," at least in Joni's estimation. > > Damn, I wish Joni would pop up on the list and let us know!! > > Lori, > who personally doesn't think any of us are disloyal Joni fans ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:46:05 -0400 (EDT) From: david sapp Subject: Elvis Costello, Joni Mitchell and the Torch Song Tradition I am 1/2 way thru the Joni portion of Larry David Smith's book. I am really enjoying it. Smith is as knowledgeable and as opinionated as any JMDL'er. Great fodder for endless discussions - pick up a copy and let's duke it out. peace, david ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:05:53 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" Debra wrote, of comments about BSN: > I don't think your memory of the comments ALL being negative (except for > yours it seems) is accurate. Huh? I don't remember ever making a negative comment about BSN! But you're certainly on target about my memory ... maybe it's the complaints that surfaced long after its release that stick in my mind. Lori, with a head and chest cold for the past 5 days and viewing the glass 1/2 empty because of it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:11:25 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni fans diss-cussing Jerry asked: > You mean we shouldn't expect more from her artistically than we would from > Britney Spears? I'm not sure how to answer that. I like Britney Spears! justkiddingjustkiddingjustkiddingjustkiddingjustkiddingjustkidding Actually, I don't think I could identify a Spears song if a gun were pointed at my head. I guess I just keep hearing my partner Mary in the back of my mind, saying the reason she doesn't want much to do with the JMDL is because we're a bunch of self-righteous know-it-alls who have have an opinion about everything, and we're music snobs to boot. I'm beginning to agree with her. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:23:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: All I want revisited All I want revisited (a disgruntled fan's lament) I am on a lonely road and I am bitching Kvetching, whingeing, whining Pining for something, what can it be? Oh I hate the Geffen stuff, I hate D-E-D, still love you some Oh I love you when you bring out a new CD I want something strong, I want to sing along Do those hands you paint belong to the living? Are you still alive? Make us get up and jive! Let us sell some stocks for a boxed set of five Do you want - do you want - do you want to keep your fans, Joni? Do you want to take a chance On maybe snuffing out our old romance with you, Joni? Hey! Come ON! All I really really want our Joan to do Is to write something new for me and for you too All I really really want our Joan to do Is to shelf the Geffen and give us something new I want a boxed set, I want the Second Fret In a pretty package with your paintings on Applause, applause, or we'll stick out our claws Do you see - do you see - do you see how you're dissing us Joni? So we diss you too And we give you bad reviews. I am on a lonely road and I am bored, Joan, Waiting for something new from you Oh the Geffen stuff, the Geffen stuff is a re-release It's a re-re-release And it undoes all the good that once was Give us something fun! Make us shine like the sun! You gotta be the one that we want to hear No more starry nights! No green hands that give a fright! You need to make us feel better You owe us, Joni, You owe us, Joni dear! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #324 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)