From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #301 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, July 9 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 301 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- LOL - Sarcastic Joni lyrics, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] did joni do like george? -- njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: did Joni do like George? -- njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: did Joni do like George? -- njc [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: did joni do like george? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: did joni do like george? [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc now njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 03:31:08 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: LOL - Sarcastic Joni lyrics, njc Wes said, >I thought this line was funny: "People will tell you where they're from, They'll tell you where to go."> Funny is one way to see it, yeah. That's what I thought for more than 10 years. I thought she was making light of the similarity between travel advice and the words used to tell someone "off". 1. "You've never been to the east coast? You should go to a barrier island at least once. There are tons of them. Give me a map. I'll tell you where to go." 2. "I was in the crosswalk and she almost ran me down. I told her where to go!" That's funny. Later I read Joni's words out of the musical context, probably when the book of lyrics came out and the meaning shifted dramatically. Read as blank text, she's deeper but less funny. She's talking about life experiences more than Travel too, in my opinion. Imagine Fred Noonan writing a letter about travel, back in '37. He might have said, >>>>>>>> An odd thing about planning a trip is that people will tell you where they've visited, then they presume to tell you where to go. In my experience though, until you go there for yourself, you'll never find what a place holds for you. For example, my sister visited Maui and found a tropical aviary. The following year, I abruptly discovered dysentery. One must take an adventure before a place reveals itself. I wonder what the South Pacific holds for me. >>>>>>>> Read like that, it's very related to seeing clouds from below and above, eh? This is rich literary dualism instead of sophomoric "irony". Her words are so rich. I think the metaphor of the song is closer to the "literal" travel advice but she was so gifted back then, she polished it until it *also* sounds like humor. Like Willy the Shake, she has high minded themes for the educated folks, then she throws in some bawdy humor for the groundlings too. "To be or not to be?" / "Get thee to a nunnery!" Only Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan get to this level from my generation, in my opinion. All the best, Lama npimh: James Taylor reading Hamlet: "To be or not to be, bay-bee? Huh! That is theee question, now! No!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 06:14:55 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: It's Edwards! njc Don't get me wrong - the guy still gets my vote in November, he just doesn't enthrall me very much, that's all. I hope that Edwards can kick up the excite-o-meter a couple of notches. Bob NP: Beck, "End Of The Day" I'd refer you back to that Langston Hughes poem I posted that Kerry aluded to, Bob. I read it and wept. Pretty exciting stuff! My excite-o-meter is stuck at full tilt boogie, man. People have the power! Let's do this. Our time has come. Unearned suffering is redemptive. That's what the book says, word? - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 06:45:04 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Sarcastic Joni lyrics Imagine you're the poor pencil-neck on the receiving end of this absolute masterpiece of biting sarcasm: "You could have been more Than a name on the door On the thirty-third floor in the air... More than a credit card Smimming pool in the back yard" That cuts like a knife! Don't sugar-coat it Roberta Joan, give it to him straight. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:53:49 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sarcastic Joni lyrics And now you're flying back this way Like some lost homing pigeon They've monitored your brain, you say And changed you with religion .......................................................... Richard got married to a figure skater And he bought a diswasher and a coffee percolater .......................................................... Batallions of paper minded males Talking commodities and sales While at home their paper wives and their paper kids Paper their walls to keep their gut reactions hid ... She is lost in House and Gardens He's caught up in Chief of Staff Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:02:51 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: did joni do like george? -- njc Could this be what happened to the JMDL Chatroom? From << http://www.thisislondon.com/showbiz/articles/11845047?source=Evening%20Standard >> George shuts down 'bitchy' chatroom 8 July 2004 George Michael has shut down his website chatroom because fans have been slagging him off. The pop superstar said he was upset to see the forum "packed full of negative comment". Some posters had accused him of looking old and overweight and of not doing enough to promote his new album Patience. Others had complained about the quality of his recent recordings. In a message posted on the website, Michael said: "Hi everybody, this is George. "I'm afraid that, having visited the forums on a regular basis over the past few months, simply to see how you guys thought the album/interviews/promotion were going, I have decided to close them down. "As many of you will know, much of my reasoning for the future is to stay away from the negativity of the media, I think that it is bad for me and for music in general, so I find it really sad to see the forums so packed full of negative comment, and that so many genuinely positive fans find themselves defendi ng me (or themselves) constantly against attack. How pointless. "There are plenty of places to read people slagging each other off, but I wasn't trying to create one in opening the forum. Those of you that want to carry on the media's work will have to do it somewhere else I suppose." He added: "I feel bad for those of you who have always been supportive, but I'm afraid I want nothing to do with the bitching that has evolved between some members, (many members), and perhaps unofficial sites will be a calmer affair." Michael signed off: "Sorry guys, but that's the way it goes... Peace and Love...or nothing at all." One disappointed fan branded the star's decision "ludicrous". "It's a fans' forum, it's freedom of speech and I don't think it's down to George to take his ball home and say 'I'm not playing any more'," the fan wrote. "The fact of the matter is that people have opinions and they are entitled to them, that's what a forum is for. "This just generates more negative press for George and I have to say its a bad move." The majority of posts were supportive of the star and begged him to reconsider. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 12:14:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: did Joni do like George? -- njc Sounds like he's the bitchy one. What can you expect from someone who plays the gay hero after being outed having bathroom sex with a cop? Never Bitchy Jerry > Could this be what happened to the JMDL Chatroom? > > From << > http://www.thisislondon.com/showbiz/articles/11845047?source=Evening%20Standar > d >> > > George shuts down 'bitchy' chatroom > 8 July 2004 > > George Michael has shut down his website chatroom because fans have been > slagging him off. > > The pop superstar said he was upset to see the forum "packed full of negative > comment". > > Some posters had accused him of looking old and overweight and of not doing > enough to promote his new album Patience. > > Others had complained about the quality of his recent recordings. > > In a message posted on the website, Michael said: "Hi everybody, this is > George. > > "I'm afraid that, having visited the forums on a regular basis over the past > few months, simply to see how you guys thought the album/interviews/promotion > were going, I have decided to close them down. > > "As many of you will know, much of my reasoning for the future is to stay > away from the negativity of the media, I think that it is bad for me and for > music in general, so I find it really sad to see the forums so packed full of > negative comment, and that so many genuinely positive fans find themselves > defendi > ng me (or themselves) constantly against attack. How pointless. > > "There are plenty of places to read people slagging each other off, but I > wasn't trying to create one in opening the forum. Those of you that want to > carry > on the media's work will have to do it somewhere else I suppose." > > He added: "I feel bad for those of you who have always been supportive, but > I'm afraid I want nothing to do with the bitching that has evolved between > some > members, (many members), and perhaps unofficial sites will be a calmer > affair." > > Michael signed off: "Sorry guys, but that's the way it goes... Peace and > Love...or nothing at all." > > One disappointed fan branded the star's decision "ludicrous". > > "It's a fans' forum, it's freedom of speech and I don't think it's down to > George to take his ball home and say 'I'm not playing any more'," the fan > wrote. > > "The fact of the matter is that people have opinions and they are entitled to > them, that's what a forum is for. > > "This just generates more negative press for George and I have to say its a > bad move." > > The majority of posts were supportive of the star and begged him to > reconsider. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:34:43 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: did Joni do like George? -- njc Jerry Notaro wrote: >Sounds like he's the bitchy one. >What can you expect from someone who plays the gay hero after being outed >having bathroom sex with a cop? > >Never Bitchy Jerry > > > if he ahd 'bathroom sex with a cop' why was not the cop charged too? I think the scenario was he was importuned by the cop in order to be set up for this. I know who I think is the criminal. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:56:57 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc to all my friends, i've been away for a long long time. it seems everything chnages but always stays the same. i've missed you all. i've missed hearing your input about our fearless hero (joni), i've missed joni. life in it's singular duality keeps me away for now, but never far. i want to send you all my love and wish you peace. peace would be nice wouldn't it noel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:52:40 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc Oh, yes, peace would be very nice. As would a shared bounty for all, with those with the broadest shoulders carrying the heaviest load (thanks to John van Tiel for articulating the concept in that way). Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com [mailto:HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:57 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc to all my friends, i've been away for a long long time. it seems everything chnages but always stays the same. i've missed you all. i've missed hearing your input about our fearless hero (joni), i've missed joni. life in it's singular duality keeps me away for now, but never far. i want to send you all my love and wish you peace. peace would be nice wouldn't it noel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:26:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: did joni do like george? Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Could this be what happened to the JMDL Chatroom? > > > George shuts down 'bitchy' chatroom > 8 July 2004 > > George Michael has shut down his website chatroom because fans have > been > slagging him off. All I can say is that I'm certainly glad that Joni doesn't subscribe to the JMDL and I will say no more. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:38:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: did joni do like george? - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > > Could this be what happened to the JMDL Chatroom? > > > > > > George shuts down 'bitchy' chatroom > > 8 July 2004 > > > > George Michael has shut down his website chatroom > because fans have > > been > > slagging him off. > > All I can say is that I'm certainly glad that Joni > doesn't subscribe to the JMDL and I will say no > more. > > Mark E in Seattle > Part of me believes that Joni could handle it and could dish it out as well. On the other hand, listening to a lot of negative comments about your work probably isn't good for the soul, so bratty and bitchy as George Michael may seem to be, I can't blame him, if it's his list/chatroom. Constructive criticism (real constructive criticism; not the cattiness that sometimes masquerades as constructive criticism) is OK; or questioning why someone would choose to do something in a certain way (although there isn't always necessarily an answer to that - sometimes it's just because...) I wonder if she would join the Joni-only or the everything list? I'd like to think she would join the everything list - she seems to know a lot about a lot of things and doesn't mind giving her opinion. I would like to hear her say some positive things about other artists (ones that are still alive!) I'd be curious to know if she listens to any younger singers, not because that person is "another Joni Mitchell" but because they have something to say and can write a good tune. I'd also like to hear the whole story behind some of the sound bites we get - when Joni lambastes the music industry, for example, that's all we hear, and I'd like to hear the rest of the story for context. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:59:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #300 sjc now njc - --- HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com wrote: > to all my friends, > i've been away for a long long time. it seems > everything chnages but always > stays the same. i've missed you all. i've missed > hearing your input about > our fearless hero (joni), i've missed joni. life in > it's singular duality > keeps me away for now, but never far. i want to > send you all my love and wish > you peace. peace would be nice wouldn't it > noel Welcome back, Noel. Things are awfully q-u-i-e-t around here. Shhhhhhhh! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:13:41 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: "joni mitchell" victim of a road rage incident -- njc http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpID=724&NewsID=558543&CategoryID=3 418&show=localnews&om=1 "Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering -- and it's all over much too soon." - --Woody Allen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:15:49 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sarcastic Joni lyrics I was thinking about the lyrics to 'The Gallery' today and was wondering. Does anyone think this line was a premonition: In ice and green and old blue jeans And naked in For the Roses ??? Maybe Joni should call up Dionne Warwicke and start up a new 'Psychic Friends' network. That's what friends are for... Mark E. Mark or Travis wrote: > And now you're flying back this way > Like some lost homing pigeon > They've monitored your brain, you say > And changed you with religion ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #301 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)