From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #295 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, July 4 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 295 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC ["Mark or Travis"] RE: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC ["Wally Kairuz" <] Re: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Yankee Doodle Dandy njc [Smurfycopy@aol.com] richie havens does woodstock ["Ron" ] Re: A simple & complex line ["mike pritchard" ] Re: richie havens does woodstock [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A simple & complex line [Em ] Re: A simple & complex line ["amelio747" ] music/tune..is it there? TI [Em ] Re: richie havens does woodstock ["Ron" ] Re: All I Want [Bobsart48@aol.com] A simple & complex line ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: AOL, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: suggestions on how to treat the earth, njc [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: music/tune..is it there? TI ["Norman Pennington" ] Joni's music bizz blues [Garret ] Re: Best of Covers Vol 1? [david sapp ] mri njc [colin ] Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now [JRMCo1@aol.com] the return of FREDGRASS (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: mri njc [Catherine McKay ] "The Final Cut", re-reviewing Pink Floyd's album, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Homme] RE: All I Want ["Wally Kairuz" ] A simple & complex line ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: music/tune..is it there? TI now NJC [Em ] Re: Political Name Calling, was Re: Yankee Doodle Dandy njc [Lori Fye ] Johm Martyn njc [dean2302@fsmail.net] Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now ["Norman Pennington" ] Shopping, was: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now ["Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC > I've seen 28 of these, with Cappadocia being the most surprising > entry on the list (to me). It's not exactly **accessible**, but then > again, neither is Antartica. How many have all y'all seen? > Only one. SF bay and citiscape. And I think Seattle's Elliott Bay/Puget Sound/Olympic/Cascade Mountains are much more spectacular and beautiful. Mark E. near Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:01:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC hah! i've been to 73 of them but never to SF bay (where i'm SURE i belong)... or the iguazu falls in my own country! shame on me. but i've been to antarctica, where there are (or used to be, i don't know anymore) quite a few argentine bases. did i ever tell you about the antarctica trip on a decrepit russian ship? the things we do when we're young and restless. (and love cold weather.) wally -- it's study study study these days. news about my final tests in about two weeks... i passed one yesterday. got a 9 (your A-). back to my paper on heuristic assumptions in cognitive psychotherapy. i must be a glutton for punishment. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 04:41:02 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Interesting List: Top 100 Wonders of the World NJC Damn, I've got some traveling to do. I've only seen, like, three. And how the hell did the Vegas strip get in there? It's a wonder alright, like hell. :-) Welcome back, Mark! Nice to see your monniker again. To each his or her own, I 'spose on the Bays. I'll show you the best view of mine, if you show me yours. :-) Thanks for posting the list, bp. You da man. - -Julius > Only one. SF bay and citiscape. And I think Seattle's Elliott Bay/Puget > Sound/Olympic/Cascade > Mountains are much more spectacular and beautiful. > > Mark E. near Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:39:19 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Yankee Doodle Dandy njc Vince writes: << I think a better comparison would be how Yankee fans treat Cheney and how they might treat Charles Manson. ;-) >> That is so unfair, Vince. Cheney is responsible for far more death and damage in this world that Manson ever was. - --Smurf "Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering -- and it's all over much too soon." - --Woody Allen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:24:19 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: richie havens does woodstock hi not sure if this was mentioned before - from village records guide for this month: "RICHIE HAVENS GRACE OF THE SUN This boomer generation of ours has any number of classic moments and images that have stood the test of time. One of them is certainly Havens taking the stage in the film "Woodstock" all those years ago and kicking off one of the defining moments of the decade. Whether he's singing one of his own songs or doing one of his unmistakable covers of another writer you are drawn to his style and voice. On this all new recording he offers mostly his own new compositions but saves some room for a show stopping rendition of Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock." A very welcome return from an old friend. Stormy Forest $15.99 Ships July 20 ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:19:14 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: A simple & complex line >>"it's nature's way of telling you...something's wrong.."<< Thanks Em for this snippet of the wonderful 'this mortal coil' track, references to whom I've only seen from myself or Big Walt, if I'm not mistaken. Or maybe you were thinking of another version? Isn't it originally a 'Spirit' song? mike in barcelona NP Jim Hall & Pat Metheny - summertime ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 07:54:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: richie havens does woodstock **On this all new recording he offers mostly his own new compositions but saves some room for a show stopping rendition of Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock." Hey thanks Ron - this is news to me. I love Havens voice & style and can't wait to hear what he does with this song, which I'm sure will resonate deeply with him. Lots of folks doing Woodstock these days, do you think they're looking to get to some semblance of a garden? Bob, getting ready to head out to Pawley's Island, surely one of the 100 wonders of the world... NP: Elvis Costello, "When Green Eyes Turn Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 04:56:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: A simple & complex line Hi Mike, yep, for me it's Spirit, one of my faves. But that song first made inroads into my head as one of the most popular "slow dance" numbers for my junior high school days. LOL, I guess lots of little boy bands around here used to play it. So it has those "sweaty, nervous" junior high dance connotations too. Along with "Samba Pa Ti" and "Color my World". But later, I got into Spirit and I was look, oh wow, there's that song from junior high school..now I LIKE it! :) Em ps hope you are having a wonderful day Mike, I am waiting for 6 yards of fill dirt to arrive, for my yard. yikes! - --- mike pritchard wrote: > >>"it's nature's way of telling you...something's wrong.."<< > > Thanks Em for this snippet of the wonderful 'this mortal coil' track, > references to whom I've only seen from myself or Big Walt, if I'm not > mistaken. Or maybe you were thinking of another version? Isn't it > originally a > 'Spirit' song? > mike in barcelona > NP Jim Hall & Pat Metheny - summertime > ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:21:26 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: A simple & complex line I think whets she's saying is Love can open your eyes to many things you maybe couldn't easily see before. This line particular perhaps implies that she doesn't feel as selfish, and cares a lot more about everyone else. That's what I get from the song anyway. NP: Knight Moves - Suzanne Vega * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 12:37 AM Subject: A simple & complex line > You know how you hear these Joni lines 1 zillion times and they breeze right > by you, and then WHAM all of a sudden they hit you like a ton of bricks? I was > just listening to Lydia van Dam's superb take on "All I Want" and this line > just leapt up at me: > > "I love you when I forget about me" > > Boy, the more you think about that one the deeper it gets. Is it > complimentary? Is it a slam? Is it self-deprecating? All or none of the above? > > Bob > > NP: still that killer Chaka cover ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: music/tune..is it there? TI what I'm hoping to do with TI, is to finally get to the recognizeable tune/heart of the songs. Like are these things you could sing? Lyrically, I believe this work is a real powerhouse. Still trying to make friends w/ the music. I guess I am very simple minded, musically, and am having trouble wrapping my brain around the tunes. I keep feeling like would someone PLEEZ give that woman a dulcimer? and the rest of you guys get the "f" out. sigh.... I love the way her voice sounds tho... sometimes it strains, but sometimes her vibrato is so beautifully controlled and natural sounding. Just delicious. Am hoping to end up buddies w/ TI. But again, it has that "sound"..that late 80's early 90's "sound". Its like this album (I forget the title) that Robbie Robertson put out in the late 80's - GREAT stuff, but mired in that super "studio-ey" sound. A shame, I think. But thats just me.... I know I'm aberrant - I don't even like chrome on motorcycles! :P em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 15:27:53 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: richie havens does woodstock hi >>>bob wrote > Lots of folks doing Woodstock these days, do you think they're looking to get > to some semblance of a garden? well, from the top 5 classic list comparing new woodstock to woodstock classic: July 1, 2004 (Today's list was originally published on July 27, 1999) The Top 15 Differences Between Woodstock '69 and Woodstock '99 15> 1969: Three-mile long line of vans bringing flower children to a festival of peace and love 1999: Three-mile long line of vans bringing children to state junior soccer tournament in nearby Poughkeepsie 14> 1969: First aid tents filled with people who overdosed on heroin and LSD 1999: First aid tents filled with people who overdosed on Frappuccino and Mountain Dew 13> 1969: Smell of freshly rolled burning joint 1999: Smell of freshly tattooed burning skin 12> 1969: Ignited a generation 1999: Generated an ignition 11> 1969: 3 days of peace, love and understanding 1999: 3 days of pay-per-view for $89.95 10> 1969: "Don't take the brown acid, man!" 1999: "Go easy on the tech stocks, man!" 9> 1969: "Don't stop the rock and roll!" 1999: "Stop, Drop and Roll!" 8> 1969: Bad acid makes everyone sick 1999: MTV VJ Jessie Camp makes everyone sick 7> 1969: "Hey, beautiful, what's your sign?" 1999: "Hey, beautiful, what's your URL?" 6> 1969: 3-day ticket -- $18 1999: 3 sodas -- $18 5> Dead 1969 alums: Janis, Jimi, and Jerry Dead 1999 alums: Peace and love 4> 1969: Go naked for that one-with-nature feeling 1999: Go naked and have your photo end up all over the Internet 3> 1969: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" 1999: Freedom's just another word for a gassed up SUV and a debit card 2> 1969: Firing up a joint during the show 1999: Burning down the joint after the show and Topfive.com's Number 1 Difference between Woodstock '69 and Woodstock '99... 1> 1969: "We are stardust...." 1999: "We are Starbucks...." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:11:14 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: All I Want Bob Muller wrote "I love you when I forget about me" Boy, the more you think about that one the deeper it gets. Is it complimentary? Is it a slam? Is it self-deprecating? All or none of the above?" I agree - the best line in what is arguably the best song on what is arguably her best record. (Note the feeble attempt at repetition - used extensively as a literary device in All I Want - along with multiple and internal rhymes). Here's how that line plays out to me. Not just a double entendre, but layers, as Bob says. Love entails forgetting about oneself, by definition. That frees one to uplift the other. In return, the achievement of that purer state uplifts oneself. Perhaps the other person facilitated your achieving that state - via his or her "love-worthiness" or loveliness. And, more often than not, love sent brings a return gift of love and support from the other, uplifting further. Then, in the act of realizing how wonderful one feels, is there danger of becoming too pleased with oneself, which turns the focus back on "me" again, which in turn can put up an obstacle to achieving the state again ? Or is it just another step in the process - learning to love oneself without that becoming a barrier to loving another(others), and maintaining that precarious balance ? Joni warranted that song by making it the first song on the record, for good reason. I have been fooling around with Howard's arrangement on the guitar (it is tough song to play the dulcimer arrangement well on the guitar, because the guitar is a chromatic instrument - which makes the fingering tricky, while on the dulcimer the fingering is easier). I'm having fun with it, but the tuning is so crazy (G, F, F, F, with the bottom two strings muted) that if I try to retune, I will likely break the strings, so I play only that song for a week, maybe. It gets played on WFUV occasionally. What a song. What an artist. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 10:25:32 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: A simple & complex line Bob said: >You know how you hear these Joni lines 1 zillion times and they breeze >right by you, and then WHAM all of a sudden they hit you like a ton of >bricks? I was just listening to Lydia van Dam's superb take on "All I Want" >and this line just leapt up at me: >"I love you when I forget about me" >Boy, the more you think about that one the deeper it gets. Is it >complimentary? Is it a slam? Is it self-deprecating? All or none of the >above? Yeah, cool. I never thought about it that way. . the different ways it can be interpreted. ie. is it: >complimentary? Is it a slam? Is it self-deprecating? All or none of the >above? ps. Bob are you playing hard to get? I am stll getting messages bounced back from you. (the aol thing).. now everything I said doesn't seem important anymore. Same for you Laura, I had two bounced today. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up  now 2 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:27:09 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: AOL, njc Marianne wrote: Jonibob and Laura, I have sent you a total of 5 messages in the last few days that bounced back. Some of my other friends' messages on aol have been bouncing back to me too. I am questioning whether aol has some problems. Hi Marianne: I haven't had any complaints from others about this. Don't know if it is AOL. It could be that AOL stands for "America" online which would make it a likely target of terrorists like American Airlines was. Head spinning like in the Master of Disguise, "I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do...." Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:38:43 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: suggestions on how to treat the earth, njc Blow up your TV, Throw away your paper, Move to the country, Build you a home. Plant a little garden, Eat a lot of peaches, Try to find Jesus, On your own. ~~ John Prine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:52:56 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: music/tune..is it there? TI Em sez: > Its like this album (I forget the title) that Robbie Robertson put out > in the late 80's - GREAT stuff, but mired in that super "studio-ey" > sound. and > I know I'm aberrant - I don't even like chrome on motorcycles! That Robbie alblum was Self-titled...if you're talking about the one with Broken Arrow and Somewhere Down the Crazy River. And...I'm wichya on the chrome, too. Maybe a couple of accents, but NOT a lot! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 09:06:14 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now Julius tells us of this screaming deal (really) on "My Life": > I'm enjoying the book and highly recommend it. You can order it for $18 in > US scratch at buy.com. > Wow...that's like half-off! Are they seconds, I wonder? Stained, perhaps? Best Regards, bp np: Robbie Robertson, Hell's Half Acre (thanks, Em) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:08:48 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: The fireworks are hailin' over little eden tonight njc Greetings from Asbury Park...She's rising! One of the Tillie faces was saved & successfully removed from the Palace walls. We're celebrating the 30th anniversary of the Stone Pony with the memorable classic music of the New Jersey shore.... headliners of the summer stage this evening, (the Big Man) Clarence Clemons and La Bamba. 4th of July, Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, Bobby Bandiera, and Boccigalupe and the Badboys., and yes there will be fireworks at 9:00! they've reopened the boardwalk and Madam Marie is open for business! Have a safe and Happy 4th of July everyone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 08:53:45 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now Norman Pennington wrote: > Julius tells us of this screaming deal (really) on "My Life": > > > I'm enjoying the book and highly recommend it. You can order it for $18 > in > > US scratch at buy.com. > > > Wow...that's like half-off! Are they seconds, I wonder? Stained, perhaps? > > Best Regards, > bp Aaaauuunnnkkk!!!! Actually I think it lists for $25, Buck...but Kilborn's joke was "Bill Clinton's book came out, and sold a whopping 600,000 copies yesterday...which seemed like a lot...then they found out it was all to women who were getting it to see whether they were mentioned in it..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:31:51 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Joni's music bizz blues "As the radio blared so bland Every disc, a poker chip Every song just a one night stand Formula music, girly guile Genuine junkfood for juveniles Up and down the dial Mercenary style" JM- taming the tiger One of the things that comes up regularly on the list is Joni's recent views and running commentary on the state of the musis business and isseus of image and talent. You all know what i'm talking about. We've been getting it from Joni for more than a few years. I usually stay out of such discussions, but thought that i would, today, put some floating thoughts down on paper, or, eh, etch them in cyber form or whatever as i was flicking through some latter year Joni articles and found this to be a run ing theme. I think there are a number of reactions that we, the converted, the devout, and, in some cases, obesessed Joniphiles routinely put forward. Most common, i suppose, is agreement with the general flow of her arguement. Some of we agree wholeheartedly. Others nod their heads and may give thanks to whoever that someone is voicing such concerns. Others raise eyebrows and smile nostalgically. Another understandable reaction we have seen on-list agrees taht marketing and image and demographics and youth and breasts and sex have taken the emphasis off talent and songwriting and singing and playing and innovation, but that, even so, there is an important place for all the madonnas and jessica simpsons and jewels and chers in music - variety and choice is an inherent aspect of the industry, the business, the game, the race. All valid. I'm sure i've been all of those people at some point. I wonder what exactly Joni refers to when she discusses the business, the industry with such guile. I imagine radio-play and chart position and popular magazines feature strongly in her reasoning. It seems to me that it would be difficult to justify (at this point i acknowledge that Joni has had personal experience that i could nto understand) her firm, negative viewpoint in the wider context of hte music business, whatever taht is. Away from the mainstream (and nto alwatys that far away), great things happen. Who can disagree? A short, inexhaustive list of names to illustrate of what i write - Rufus Wainwright, Kathryn Williams, Polly Paulasuma, Gillian Welch, Sufjan Stevens, Loretta lynn, Peter Cincotti, Franz Ferdinand, Josh Ritter, Damien Rice, the Waifs, Jolie Holland. Let me point out two things about this list 1) it is merely teh list that springs to my mind, right now. It is probably related to recent exposure. 2) these all produce in English. this ignores great songs andmusic the world over that is proudced in other languages and from other traditions. I'm sure Ashara could provide a nice list in this respect:-) I've slowly been exposing myself to international, non-english music (i can see a joke about me, a trenchcoat and the world music section in HMV.... no comment!!) and have come across some amazing music. Random thoughts as i said. Were Joni discussing movies with the same arguement, i fear she would merely be discussing block-buster, star vehicles, no brainers taht we all know. She would be ignoring a large and vital body of work. This would be ignoring decent mainstream movies like AMerican Beauty and Fight Club. It would be ignoring away-from-mainstream greats like Shine and Pi. And it would be ignoring great non-englsih language movies like Amelie, Goodbye Lenin, and The Twilight Samurai. i think, although may be mistaken, that the principle applies. Good movies with a lot of artistic integrity exist, and can be found if you look beyond the local cineplex (you should see my local its called HollyWood Green... cos i live in an area called Wood Green, lol). Good music, original music, new ideas, great art- this exists and can be found if you look for it. So my question, where is Joni looking? I suspect that there is a level of "my music is great but hasn't been acknowledged as such in a way that would please me" to it. I'm not quiet sure how to work in the fact that, for most of her career, Joni's music has been distances, to varying degrees, from the mainstream. She has been on the fringes of mainstream, significantly outside any reasonable definition of mainstream yet she is not looking there *now* to see taht music really isn't in such a bad state. But, as i said, these are just some wandering thoughts. I owuld like to see joni recognised more. but i would also like her to stop her tireless rant against modern music (ok, so the *business* side of it irks her too). What greater staetment of influence, recognition, success than the high evaluation of her fellow music craftspeople as evidenced in Bob Muellers ever expanding database of covers? (what an awkward sentence!) GARRET Np- Television, Venus - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:19:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: david sapp Subject: Re: Best of Covers Vol 1? >David Sapp calls them "essential listening"for Joni fans> Yes I did. And beyond that they are truly fine recordings. Vol 1 in particular is simply SUPERB all the way around and includes my fave - Prince - A Case Of You peace, david ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 18:01:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: mri njc finally my big day i arrived and up really early to have an mri at a hospital 20 miles away. I arrive, am shown into the room where this enormous very space age looking machine is. i like the look of it and am excited as I like technological stuff. With help, I lay don on the is thing, ready to be placed inside the machine. Everything is fine. then things start getting put into place, so I am immobilised, then a frame gets locked over my head. Am a bit purturbed by that. slowly I am pulled into the machine and my breathing goes and my heart starts to pound and suddenly I am a samll boy again, someone heavy on top, trapped and unable to breathe. I tell them to stop and they pull me out again. I calmed down, turned and looked at the machine, told myself off, 'it's only a machine' and asked them to start pulling me in again. This time it took 5 seconds before I was unable to breathe and the same awful memory feeling came flooding back. So I didn't have the damn thing done. They have this happen for one reason or another frequently. they will do it gain as soon as my gp gives me some sedation for it. I feel stupid and annoyed with myself. I am a grown 45 year old and still the past won't stay where it belongs. I wish I was a dog! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:16:40 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now I bet you shop at Ross, don't you, Buck. Nope, buy.com's _My Life_ tomes are pristine. They're not cheap, just inexpensive. But whatever floats your boat is fine with me. It's still a free country despite the current administration, so leave your DNA in whatever literature you please. - -Julius buckpennington@yucca.net writes: >Wow...that's like half-off! Are they seconds, I wonder? Stained, perhaps? > Julius tells us of this screaming deal (really) on "My Life": > > >I'm enjoying the book and highly recommend it. You can order it for $18 > in > >US scratch at buy.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 13:24:32 -0400 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: the return of FREDGRASS (njc) Dear friends, well-wishers, comrades, and the casually curious: Well, our brief experiment was a success. And so we offer the return of FREDGRASS, playing new and old compositions of mine through a bluegrass filter. Come for the music, stay for the hang. Come on down and dig on up. I hope to see you there, and, as always, I'm grateful for your past, present, and future support. Your fred, Fred ====================== FREDGRASS Fred Simon - composer, piano Don Stiernberg - mandolin, guitar, fiddle Brian Wilkie - pedal steel, guitar Dave Onderdonk - guitar, harmonica Zach Brock - violin Ingrid Graudins - voice Larry Kohut - bass Sarah Allen - drums, percussion ====================== Wednesday, July 7, 2004, 9 PM - 1 AM The Green Mill, 4802 N. Broadway, Chicago, IL, (773) 878-5552 ====================== New album coming in September, 2004, on The Naim Label Fred Simon - composer, piano, Paul McCandless - woodwinds, and Steve Rodby - bass ====================== *** ABSOLUTELY WE WILL SPREAD OUR GROOVE AND INTERNATIONAL FEELING *** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:34:16 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now You know what? I misspoke! _My Life_ is only $17.50 at buy.com, plus $3.45 for shipping...for a grand total of $20.95. Here's the link: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=36396867&loc=106&sp=1&queryType= Since I love ya'll so much I'm going to let you in on a little secret: You can ALWAYS find the lowest price on any book by doing a query on bublos.com. Do yourself a favor and use it religiously. Now, don't say I never done you nothing. :-) - -Julius In a message dated 7/3/2004 10:16:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JRMCo1 writes: > I bet you shop at Ross, don't you, Buck. Nope, buy.com's _My Life_ tomes > are pristine. They're not cheap, just inexpensive. But whatever floats your > boat is fine with me. It's still a free country despite the current > administration, so leave your DNA in whatever literature you please. > > -Julius > > buckpennington@yucca.net writes: > > >Wow...that's like half-off! Are they seconds, I wonder? Stained, perhaps? > > >> Julius tells us of this screaming deal (really) on "My Life": >> >> >I'm enjoying the book and highly recommend it. You can order it for $18 >> in >> >US scratch at buy.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 14:56:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: mri njc - --- colin wrote: > finally my big day i arrived and up really early to > have an mri at a > hospital 20 miles away. ... This time it took > 5 seconds before I > was unable to breathe and the same awful memory > feeling came flooding back. > So I didn't have the damn thing done. They have this > happen for one > reason or another frequently. they will do it gain > as soon as my gp > gives me some sedation for it. > I feel stupid and annoyed with myself. I am a grown > 45 year old and > still the past won't stay where it belongs. > I wish I was a dog! I'm sure you'd make a lovely dog, Colin, but stay human and don't beat yourself up over this. These things can and do happen, even to people who don't have something from their past to explain it. You will go back and have the test with sedation and it will go just fine. I don't know why they don't sedate people to begin with for this, since they want them to keep still all through it, don't they? I've had a CT scan done, maybe not quite the same as MRI, but still involving being shoved into a tube and that ain't exactly natural, is it? I hope you don't have to wait as long this time. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 15:03:53 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "The Final Cut", re-reviewing Pink Floyd's album, njc Note: There is no Joni content here and this is a long post. - ------------------------ I love this album and now it's been expanded. I'll bet everyone's familiar with Pink Floyd's "The Wall", about a rock star named Pink. In the movie version of "The Wall", Pink's father is in a WWII foxhole when we witness his demise: "It was just before dawn, one miserable morning in black '44, when the forward commander was told to 'sit tight' when he asked that his men be withdrawn. And the generals gave thanks as the other ranks held back the enemy tanks... for awhile. And the Anzio bridgehead was held for the price of a few hundred 'ordinary' lives." Waters used that death as the centerpiece of the next project, "The Final Cut", another big story. This is the last Floyd project which includes Roger, the band's finest story-teller, the son of a fallen WWII veteran, and one of the Rock era's greatest lyricists. It's an anti-war statement, dedicated to Roger's father, E. Fletcher Waters. This year's re-issue of "The Final Cut" includes that scene from the movie but it's not appended onto the end like a bonus track. With his characteristic attention to detail, Waters inserted the track where it fits the collage best- just before a song about honouring the dead. But this isn't a solo project. I imagine that the long-time Pink Floyd producer James Guthrie advised the Dave Gilmour-powered guitar solo in the title track. The incidental sounds are recorded with 3D, life-like realism. The Floyd team took this to an even higher level than on "Dark Side Of the Moon" in the bits involving the sea gulls, the waitress, the approaching and receding jet aircraft, and the kitten. If a french horn was used to convey a beacon in empty space, it wasn't mic'ed directly. It was recorded from well back in a big hall, so the rich sense of empty space is built into the sound. That's the whole point, eh? Those who don't enjoy this album complain that Roger does almost all of the lead vocals. For me, his limitation as a singer focuses attention on the words which are absolutely first rate. If a listener can not enjoy "Blonde On Blonde" for the stories, they should skip "The Final Cut". Like James Taylor's 2nd album "Sweet Baby James", there's a ton of angst here but there are also well timed doses of tenderness and humor. This hi/low contrast gives "The Final Cut" an accessible, interesting dynamic, like an approaching thunderstorm. Example: The text of "The Gunner's Dream" is about the last thoughts of a soul ascending. It's heavy so it's followed with a light story: The present-day Roger goes 'round to a pub for a pint. As the high-minded storyteller he is, he's seeking to lighten his load, not merely to 'get pissed'. I also hear a couple references to our murdered Beatle, John Lennon. >You can relax on both sides of the tracks and maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control.> There's a rowdy prayer called "Not Now John", about carrying on in spite of being haunted by death and violence. Waters drops in some Lennon-esque gibberish: >s'cusi dove il bar se para collo pou eine toe bar s'il vous plait cu est le bar. Right! Where's the fecking bar, John!?> Wait, there's more. This album has Waters' extraordinary fantasy of retiring all leaders of state who too easily start war that others have to finish. He would put them into a home where they can't hurt anyone but themselves. I quoted part of this when the Iraq invasion started: >>>>>>>> They can polish their medals and sharpen their smiles and amuse themselves playing games for awhile. [boom boom] [bang bang] [lie down- you're dead] Safe in the permenant gaze of a cold glass eye (their favorite toy), they'll be good girls and boys in "The Fletcher Memorial Home For Colonial Wasters Of Life And Limb". >>>>>>>> I think Iraqi Kurds, the coalition troops, the insulted POWs, Catholic & Protestants in Belfast, Israeli border guards, and Palestinian settlers would be proud. This is masterful story telling at the service of an anti-war message. That's why I heartily recommend "The Final Cut" from Pink Floyd. All the best, Jim P.S. Roger Waters said, >When the war was over> >we spent what they had made> >but in our hearts we felt the final> >cut> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:48:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: All I Want and just think what the original lyrics were!!!! talk about introspection. wally, blue MADE me. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Bobsart48@aol.com > Enviado el: Sabado, 03 de Julio de 2004 11:11 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > CC: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Asunto: Re: All I Want > > > Bob Muller wrote > > "I love you when I forget about me" > > Boy, the more you think about that one the deeper it gets. Is it > complimentary? Is it a slam? Is it self-deprecating? All or none of the > above?" > > > I agree - the best line in what is arguably the best song on what > is arguably > her best record. > > (Note the feeble attempt at repetition - used extensively as a literary > device in All I Want - along with multiple and internal rhymes). > > Here's how that line plays out to me. Not just a double entendre, > but layers, > as Bob says. Love entails forgetting about oneself, by > definition. That frees > one to uplift the other. In return, the achievement of that purer state > uplifts oneself. Perhaps the other person facilitated your > achieving that state - > via his or her "love-worthiness" or loveliness. And, more often > than not, love > sent brings a return gift of love and support from the other, uplifting > further. Then, in the act of realizing how wonderful one feels, > is there danger of > becoming too pleased with oneself, which turns the focus back on > "me" again, > which in turn can put up an obstacle to achieving the state again > ? Or is it > just another step in the process - learning to love oneself > without that becoming > a barrier to loving another(others), and maintaining that > precarious balance > ? > > Joni warranted that song by making it the first song on the > record, for good > reason. > > I have been fooling around with Howard's arrangement on the guitar (it is > tough song to play the dulcimer arrangement well on the guitar, > because the > guitar is a chromatic instrument - which makes the fingering > tricky, while on the > dulcimer the fingering is easier). I'm having fun with it, but > the tuning is so > crazy (G, F, F, F, with the bottom two strings muted) that if I try to > retune, I will likely break the strings, so I play only that song > for a week, maybe. > > It gets played on WFUV occasionally. > > What a song. What an artist. > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 15:55:23 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: A simple & complex line Joni said, >>I love you when I forget about me>> Bob Muller said, >Boy, the more you think about that one the deeper it gets. Is it a.) complimentary? Is it b.) a slam? Is it c.) self-deprecating? d.) All or e.) none of the above?> I guess I'll go with d.) All of the above. If you're happy when you read it, it means, "I'm so into you, I can't think of nothing else," as another song goes. It's only 8 words. It wasn't even on the radio. It's like a Faberge egg but like the Russian toys, there are more eggs inside. It's a funhouse mirror. If you're having fun when you encounter it, you laugh and say, "So true." If you're in a breakup when you encounter it, you get angry or hurt, then say, "So true." On a better day, I called this "exquistite multiplicity". Em, you might want to read this: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Duality.html Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: music/tune..is it there? TI now NJC Buck wrote: > That Robbie alblum was Self-titled...if you're talking about the one > with > Broken Arrow and Somewhere Down the Crazy River. Yep thats the one! > And...I'm wichya on > the > chrome, too. Maybe a couple of accents, but NOT a lot! LOL, glad to find a like-minded individual on that! We seem to be in the minority where thats concerned. :) hope you are having a great day Buck, and everyone. Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:51:46 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Political Name Calling, was Re: Yankee Doodle Dandy njc Buck sez: > I will now call John Kerry "that two-faced patrician motherfucker pretending > to be 'just one of the guys'." > > How much lower can we go? This should be interesting. Actually, I have no problem with what you've written about Kerry. Might even be true. I'm going to vote for him anyway, because it's not just about getting Bush out of office; it's about getting the rest of his boys out, too. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:51:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Lama! your post man I was answering your post, where you were speaking to Bob's discussion of the lyrics from "All I Want", and I hit reply or actually maybe "delete" - and its like GONE. Not even in my trash. I don't get it. hmmm. Anyway, I read your article - very nicely written. And I get what you're saying. And I have NO doubt the post HOSL Joni stuff is totally brilliant. I'm just having to work real hard to "get it" music-wise. Yes the lyrics are friggen stellar and her later voice is quite delightful to me...but I'm having trouble absorbing the musical end, especially the production. Hey its just me... some of this stuff is like eating Brussels Sprouts - no can do. But I'm trying. I'm thinking maybe if I could hear it on a perfect stereo, and if I got EXTREMELY stoned (besides on beer) *maybe* that would nail it for me...but otherwise it remains a struggle. Just not an electric jazz person. Not sure why. I accept that its my failure. But the reason I even broach the topic on here, or talk about it - is that its really quite frustrating..as I feel its "almost" there for me - - just can't *quite* connect. Again, my failure. An oddity of today: I've spent the day shoveling dirt - have about 4 out of 6 yards moved now and was listening to music out there. Listened to John Fogerty's "Premonition" album, Emmy Lou Harris "Live at the Ryman", the Dead, "Reckoning" and Joni's TI. And you know whats in my head now????? "I am on a lonely road and I am travelling travelling travelling"...can't get it out of my head tho I've not listened to it in a week. That stuff on Blue was THAT strong..infectiously strong. As far as TI, so far the song "Turbulent Indigo" has me pretty fascinated (love the Jackson Pollock reference) and Sire of Sorrow. I love the Canada-way she says the word "Sorrow". LOL!!!!!!! I wish she would cover that old tune "Sorrow" . You know, "with your long blonde hair and your eyes of blue.." then I'd get to hear her say "sorrow" quite alot! By the way I found what you said about the Police pretty interesting. Loved the early Police stuff, up to "Ghost in the Machine". Solo Sting however, leaves me cold. Totally. Have an album of African stuff done by ex Police drummer Stuart (sp?) Copeland called "The Rhythmatist". I like it SO much I had the album - wore it out and bought the CD. Anyway, I guess people digest what they can digest - and sometimes they even learn to love Brussels Sprouts. So who knows. ::shrug:: anyway, again, Lama, I enjoyed reading what you had to say in your article. Em ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:37:09 +0200 (CEST) From: dean2302@fsmail.net Subject: Johm Martyn njc Did any other UK listers see the repeat of the John Martyn documentary on BBC 2 last night? I've always loved John's stuff and have seen him a few times in concert but didn't know much about the man. He's the archetypal self-destructive genius who defies convention and explanation, going merrily on his way whilst others 'stick to some straighter line.' Now, sadly due to debt burdens and failing health he's fallen upon hard times. He's always been a one man health hazard; list a wooden stake through his shoulder, an exploding pancreas (due to the drink) and a recently amputed leg amongst his 'tragic trials'. However, what remains untouched is his sublime music, a combination of sassy blues /rock numbers and shattered, aching ballads. In the documentary he's portrayed as an aggressive but somewhat forlorn figure and that shows in his interviews; he's clearly drunk in some of them. But everyone that has been affected by John's indulgence, including his long-suffering former wife and singing partner Beverley Martyn speak of him affectionately. Asked to sum up his character John responded with the title of one of his albums, Grace and Danger. This seems perfectly apt for someone who once said of his music that he wanted the nice things to get nicer and the nasty things to get nastier. ~Kevin - -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:11:03 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now Randy sez: > Aaaauuunnnkkk!!!! > Actually I think it lists for $25, Buck...but Kilborn's joke was > "Bill Clinton's book came out, and sold a whopping 600,000 > copies yesterday...which seemed like a lot...then they found out > it was all to women who were getting it to see whether they were > mentioned in it..... > LOL! I LIKE that!! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:13:31 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now Julius, revealing secrets, sez: > Since I love ya'll so much I'm going to let you in on a little secret: You > can ALWAYS find the lowest price on any book by doing a query on bublos.com. > Do yourself a favor and use it religiously. Now, don't say I never done you > nothing. :-) > Now this is "news you can use!" Filed away in the "keepers" folder... Thanks, Julius! bp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:33:09 -0500 From: "Steve Anderson" Subject: Re: Johm Martyn njc I always loved John Martyn especially his early stuff. Solid Air is one of my all time favorite lps ever. Bless the Weather and One World also very good. The 2 cd Sweet Little Mystery has a pretty good overview of his work. I think I saw him open for Yes during their Tales From Topographic Oceans tour. I need to get his newest cd I think I have everything except one John and Beverly Martyn cd The Tumbler. His was a big influence on Nick Drake who has gained in popularity after his death but I always thought John Martyn should be equally revered. Steve Anderson - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: Johm Martyn njc > Did any other UK listers see the repeat of the John Martyn documentary on BBC 2 last night? I've always loved John's stuff and have seen him a few times in concert but didn't know much about the man. He's the archetypal self-destructive genius who defies convention and explanation, going merrily on his way whilst others 'stick to some straighter line.' > > Now, sadly due to debt burdens and failing health he's fallen upon hard times. He's always been a one man health hazard; list a wooden stake through his shoulder, an exploding pancreas (due to the drink) and a recently amputed leg amongst his 'tragic trials'. However, what remains untouched is his sublime music, a combination of sassy blues /rock numbers and shattered, aching ballads. > > In the documentary he's portrayed as an aggressive but somewhat forlorn figure and that shows in his interviews; he's clearly drunk in some of them. But everyone that has been affected by John's indulgence, including his long-suffering former wife and singing partner Beverley Martyn speak of him affectionately. > > Asked to sum up his character John responded with the title of one of his albums, Grace and Danger. This seems perfectly apt for someone who once said of his music that he wanted the nice things to get nicer and the nasty things to get nastier. > > > ~Kevin > > > > > -- > > Whatever you Wanadoo: > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ > > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 19:48:27 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Shopping, was: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now Julius wagered: > I bet you shop at Ross, don't you, Buck. Uh, nope. No Ross stores in this part of New Mexico. I do most of my shopping on the 'net, actually...music, books, clothes. Since I'm totally retired now, I don't need much beyond 501s and tee shirts. Wanna see my latest tee? http://www.cafeshops.com/rightwingstuff.10697191?zoom=yes#zoom Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:27:46 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Shopping, was: Joni in Clinton Memoir NJC now That tee and some camouflage cargo pants would make a charming ensemble on you, Buck. And if you've got an M-16 and a beret to accessorize, you're styling for sure. Throw on a grenade sash, as well, for your Sunday-go-to-meeting attire. And now I know where to get some right-wing stuff, should hell freeze over and I get the urge to join the dark side. I love New Mexico though. I used to ski at Taos when I lived in Texas. I don't recall seeing any fashion police down there, so you can probably wear it well with impunity. I'm just kidding, of course. Thanks for the giggles. Would you wear a tie-dyed tee? If so, I'll send you one as a gift in thanks for the amusement. Hope retirement is being good to you. By the way, you can get some killer deals on some real clothes at http://www.rossstores.com/ - -Julius > Julius wagered: > > >I bet you shop at Ross, don't you, Buck. > > Uh, nope. No Ross stores in this part of New Mexico. I do most of my > shopping on the 'net, actually...music, books, clothes. Since I'm totally > retired now, I don't need much beyond 501s and tee shirts. Wanna see my > latest tee? http://www.cafeshops.com/rightwingstuff.10697191?zoom=yes#zoom > > Best Regards, > bp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 02:29:49 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: July 4 On July 4 the following articles were published: 1997: "Joni Mitchell merits local recognition" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=736 2000: "Joni Mitchell" - Jam! Website (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=732 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #295 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)