From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2004 #288 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 29 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 288 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and Bob/njc just thanks [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni and Bob [Joseph Palis ] Michael Moore at the Bank - njc ["Kate Bennett" ] false on film NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Joni and Bob ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni and Bob ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: done with politics and moore - njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The Beginning of Survival and hi again! [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: done with politics and moore - njc [Lori Fye ] Today's Library Links: June 29 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:01:59 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Bob/njc just thanks Em wrote: > NP: "Father of Night", reminded by Randy to listen to "New Morning" > ooooo, oooooh ooohhhhhhhhh! > And Laura is reminding you to listen to All the Tired Horses... Seen any tired horses in the sun out there in California lately Kate? Wink. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:41:50 -0400 From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Joni and Bob I'm all for this, too. I love Tom Waits but I came in late in the game. I thought _Alice_ is a brilliant album. Its like hearing an ogre sing and in that span of time, Waits sings like no one in this world. Magic comes close. Ani DiFranco is just a flat-out first rate talent. Her first albums mostly acoustic somehow reminded me of Joni in their intensity and magic with words and how to musically make them come to life. Joni is unsurpassed. Well, maybe Rickie Lee Jones and Laura Nyro are the only ones who can hold a candle. I am one of those who just didn't 'get' Bob though. Apologies. Joseph in Chapel Hill (jet-lagged but happy) Quoting SCJoniGuy@aol.com: > Don't know why it always comes down to Joni & Bob...of course they're > both > brilliant, but for my money Tom Waits & Ani Difranco are right up > with them. > > And hey, 3 out of the 4 are still writing! > > Bob > > NP: Andy Partridge, "Don't Let Us Bug Ya" > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 TEL: 919 962 8901 FAX: 919 962 1537 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:10:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Michael Moore at the Bank - njc >She says Moore deceived her into being interviewed by saying of their long-gun-give-away program: "This is so great. I'm a hunter, a sportsman, grew up in Michigan, am an NRA member."< As far as I recall Moore actually is all of the above... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:21:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: false on film NJC >But when I see a case of someone using deception to further their own political agenda, I have a problem with it.< like our current administration? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:00:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni and Bob I think there is room for both (& a few more) at the top... listening to a small sampling of Dylan songs last night by a variety of artists at our sold out tribute to Dylan (proceeds went to keeping music in our local elementary schools) gave me a profoundly deep appreciation of the man's artistry... same as when I hear people doing joni's songs in their own way... learning the song I chose, like learning joni's songs is another way to tap into the genius of the songwriter... several have asked for a report of the show... it's a blur to me as both producer & performer but I can say that all the performers & the audience had the time of their lives... much was said through performing dylan's music that is just so timely... a powerful night... Kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:04:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni and Bob > In regard to differences in their poetry, I would also say Dylan > looks > into himself and speaks from there while Joni is a visionary who > looks out and speaks from a more mystical place. Funny but I see it just the opposite. Joni has always seemed more inwardly focused to me. Not always and certainly less so in the last 20 years or so. And as for Dylan being romantic, I think this is one of the most romantic and aching songs I have ever heard: If you see her, say hello, she might be in Tangier She left here last early spring, is livin' there, I hear Say for me that I'm all right though things get kind of slow She might think that I've forgotten her, don't tell her it isn't so. We had a falling-out, like lovers often will And to think of how she left that night, it still brings me a chill And though our separation, it pierced me to the heart She still lives inside of me, we've never been apart. If you get close to her, kiss her once for me I always have respected her for busting out and gettin' free Oh, whatever makes her happy, I won't stand in the way Though the bitter taste still lingers on from the night I tried to make her stay. I see a lot of people as I make the rounds And I hear her name here and there as I go from town to town And I've never gotten used to it, I've just learned to turn it off Either I'm too sensitive or else I'm gettin' soft. Sundown, yellow moon, I replay the past I know every scene by heart, they all went by so fast If she's passin' back this way, I'm not that hard to find Tell her she can look me up if she's got the time. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:10:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: done with politics and moore - njc >i think you guys just scared off a joni fan. maybe our loss, who knows?< well I hope not... I don't think anyone's response to kindtaper was all that heated... I think most people come to learn that this is a list with a lot of passion & intelligence... its not for everyone but I think its worth sticking around for... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:16:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Beginning of Survival and hi again! **Not been on the list for a while coz I wasn't feeling too good. Hopefully I've not been totally forgotten ;) Not at all, Stephen...matter of fact I made mention of you last month, thanking you for your contribution to the covers project (the Madeline Milla stuff) and wondering where you had gotten to. (Go look up the digest if you think I'm pulling your lariat or if you just want to see it). Anyway, sorry you were sick and damn glad to see you back! **but what does everyone think of the track-listing for "The Beginning Of Survival (please tell me there is an abbreviation for that!)??? TBOS...it has not been warmly received for the most part, Stephen. First & foremost because it's a product without an audience. Joni fans already have this stuff, and non-Joni fans won't care. It's like the proverbial tree in the forest - does it make a noise if no one is listening? Which is not to say that it's all bad; who could argue with great songs like "Magdalene Laundries, Slouching, Beat Of Black Wings & Passion Play (now with a bonus subtitle!). Then you've got the songs that aren't bad songs but suffer from the dated production and superfluous studio gimmickry (Impossible Dreamer, Dog Eat Dog,) but unfortunately the bulk of it is a recap (recrap) of Joni's worstest stuff ever: Reoccurring Dream, No Apologies, The Windfall, Fiction, and so on. For the life of me I can't figure out why this thing exists, especially when all the Geffen stuff just got re-released last year. At least Dancing Clown got left out. The Beginning of Survival? What a pretentious title. The Beginning of Retirement, perhaps. Or maybe "Yard Sale". Or maybe "I Guess Dylan Really IS Better" LOL For someone who didn't want to paint a starry night again, man, she's been on quite a nostalgia binge of late. But then again I guess that recycling is consistent with her social and political content in regards to this collection. The track list, "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" "The Beat of Black Wings" "The Reoccuring Dream" "Impossible Dreamer" "The Windfall (Everything for Nothing)" "No Apologies" "Dog Eat Dog" "Passion Play (The Story of Jesus and Zachius ... The Little Tax Collector)" "The Three Great Stimulants" "Cool Water" "Lakota" "Sex Kills" "Fiction" "Tax Free" "The Magdalene Laundries" "Ethiopia" Bob, swearing not to write about TBOS anymore...again. NP: Andy Partridge "Strawberry Fields Forever" (Dave Gregory actually) PS: I'm not sure why the new subtitle for Passion Play - maybe because not enough people knew the Bible story? And I hope they get Zaccheus' name right on the official product. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:24:12 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni and Bob Bob is not always rough... he can be very spiritual & delicate & superbly mystical... such as (my this year's chosen song... imagine 3 part harmonies ala Emmylou's 'Trio' & a d tuning drone like chording ... sung like a prayer): LAY DOWN YOUR WEARY TUNE Lay down your weary tune, lay down, Lay down the song you strum, And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings No voice can hope to hum. Struck by the sounds before the sun, I knew the night had gone. The morning breeze like a bugle blew Against the drums of dawn. chorus The ocean wild like an organ played, The seaweed's wove its strands. The crashin' waves like cymbals clashed Against the rocks and sands. Chorus I stood unwound beneath the skies And clouds unbound by laws. The cryin' rain like a trumpet sang And asked for no applause. Chorus The last of leaves fell from the trees And clung to a new love's breast. The branches bare like a banjo played To the winds that listened best. Chorus I gazed down in the river's mirror And watched its winding strum. The water smooth ran like a hymn And like a harp did hum. Chorus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:33:42 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Beginning of Survival and hi again! The King of Cobra & Covers writes: << I'm not sure why the new subtitle for Passion Play - maybe because not enough people knew the Bible story? >> And what's with these other subtitles? "Slouching Toward Bethlehem (WIllie B. Yeats Must Be Turning Like a Falcon in His Grave)" "The Reoccuring Dream (Or You Say 'Recurring', I Say "Reocurring', Let's Call the Whole Thing Off)" "The Windfall (Ode to Bad Domestic Help)" "Sex Kills (But a Little Nookie Never Hoit!)" "The Magdalene Laundries (That Song About the Floozies)" - --Smurf "Treat a work of art like a prince. Let it speak to you first." - --Artie Schopenhauer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:43:53 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: done with politics and moore - njc Wes wrote: > I joined this list hoping to find other people to trade Joni shows with, not > to try and convince other people of my views on politics. I'm going back to > my original plan, and I apologize to the whole group for ever putting my two > cents in when it didn't involve Joni. No need to apologize, Wes. The political threads come and go on this list; they always have. Sometimes things get really ugly, but eventually things cool down and we usually don't lose anyone along the way. All viewpoints all welcome here, and you'll find that, while your point of view may be in the minority on this list, you are not alone. There are a few ... how shall I put this? ... less liberal folks on this list, some who even support Bush and plan to vote for him. I am not one of them (I'm a card-carrying, gun toting, elephant hunting Democrat), but they are all valued friends of mine. (One of them I've known for 27 years; I wonder where the time goes?) You're right about this for sure: there's no point in trying to convince others to think as you do. That goes for ALL of us. Most of us are too set in our ways by now (read between the words: OLD) to change now. Of course that doesn't stop any of us from continuing to try to re-educate each other. : ) So make a cup of tea or grab a beer or light up a smoke or whatever, and carry on. I'm glad you're here. Lori - -- Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:01:53 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Bob Mark wrote: Funny but I see it just the opposite. Joni has always seemed more inwardly focused to me. Not always and certainly less so in the last 20 years or so. And as for Dylan being romantic, I think this is one of the most romantic and aching songs I have ever heard: If you see her, say hello, she might be in Tangier She left here last early spring, is livin' there, I hear Say for me that I'm all right though things get kind of slow She might think that I've forgotten her, don't tell her it isn't so. We had a falling-out, like lovers often will And to think of how she left that night, it still brings me a chill And though our separation, it pierced me to the heart She still lives inside of me, we've never been apart. If you get close to her, kiss her once for me I always have respected her for busting out and gettin' free Oh, whatever makes her happy, I won't stand in the way Though the bitter taste still lingers on from the night I tried to make her stay. I see a lot of people as I make the rounds And I hear her name here and there as I go from town to town And I've never gotten used to it, I've just learned to turn it off Either I'm too sensitive or else I'm gettin' soft. Sundown, yellow moon, I replay the past I know every scene by heart, they all went by so fast If she's passin' back this way, I'm not that hard to find Tell her she can look me up if she's got the time. Hi Mark! Cool that we see so opposite! Bob definitely has some very nice, sad romantic love songs like this one. Sara is another song of this type I love. However, for me Joni's songs like Blue, The Silky Veils of Ardor, All I Want, and Lesson In Survival convey a romanticism that captures my imagination much more than Bob's. I find Joni's romantic songs bring so much more color into my thoughts, like her paintings do. Bob's seem more black and white to me, interesting and deep but more like his line drawings. Maybe it is the just the difference in my view as a woman. Wink. Love, Laura BLUE Blue, songs are like tattoos You know I've been to sea before Crown and anchor me Or let me sail away Hey Blue, THERE is a song for you Ink on a pin Underneath the skin An empty space to fill in Well there're so many sinking now You've got to keep thinking You can make it thru these waves Acid, booze, and ass Needles, guns, and grass Lots of laughs, lots of laughs Everybody's saying that hell's the hippest way to go Well I don't think so But I'm gonna take a look around it though Blue, I love you Blue, here is a shell for you Inside you'll HEAR a sigh A foggy lullaby There is your song from me SILKY VEILS OF ARDOR I am a poor wayfaring stranger Traveling through all these highs and lows I heard there was no sickness And no toil or danger Just mercy and plenty Where peaceful waters flow Where peaceful waters flow Come all you fair and tender school girls Be careful now--when you court young men They are like the stars On a summer morning They sparkle up the night And they're gone again Daybreak--gone again If I'd only seen through the silky veils of ardor What a killing crime this love can be I would have locked up my heart In a golden sheath of armor And kept its crazy beating Under strictest secrecy High security I wish I had the wings Of Noah's pretty little white dove So I could fly this raging river To reach the one I love But I have no wings And the water is so wide We'll have to row a little harder It's just in dreams we fly In my dreams we fly! ALL I WANT I am on a lonely road and I am traveling Traveling, traveling, traveling Looking for something, what can it be Oh I hate you some, I hate you some I love you some Oh I love you when I forget about me I want to be strong I want to laugh along I want to belong to the living Alive, alive, I want to get up and jive I want to wreck my stockings in some juke box dive Do you want - do you want - do you want To dance with me baby Do you want to take a chance On maybe finding some sweet romance with me baby Well, come on All I really really want our love to do Is to bring out the best in me and in you too All I really really want our love to do Is to bring out the best in me and in you I want to talk to you, I want to shampoo you I want to renew you again and again Applause, applause - life is our cause When I think of your kisses My mind see-saws Do you see - do you see - do you see How you hurt me baby So I hurt you too Then we both get so blue I am on a lonely road and I am traveling Looking for the key to set me free Oh the jealousy, the greed is the unraveling It's the unraveling And it undoes all the joy that could be I want to have fun, I want to shine like the sun I want to be the one that you want to see I want to knit you a sweater Want to write you a love letter I want to make you feel better I want to make you feel free Hmm, Hmm, Hmm, Hmm, Want to make you feel free I want to make you feel free SILKY VEILS OF ARDOR I am a poor wayfaring stranger Traveling through all these highs and lows I heard there was no sickness And no toil or danger Just mercy and plenty Where peaceful waters flow Where peaceful waters flow Come all you fair and tender school girls Be careful now--when you court young men They are like the stars On a summer morning They sparkle up the night And they're gone again Daybreak--gone again If I'd only seen through the silky veils of ardor What a killing crime this love can be I would have locked up my heart In a golden sheath of armor And kept its crazy beating Under strictest secrecy High security I wish I had the wings Of Noah's pretty little white dove So I could fly this raging river To reach the one I love But I have no wings And the water is so wide We'll have to row a little harder It's just in dreams we fly In my dreams we fly! LESSON IN SURVIVAL Lesson in Survival Spinning out on turns That gets you tough Guru books-the Bible Only a reminder That you're just not good enough You need to believe in something Once I could in our love Black road Double yellow line Friends and kin Campers in the kitchen That's fine sometimes But I know my needs My sweet tumbleweed I need more quiet times By a river flowing You and me Deep kisses And the sun going down Maybe it's paranoia Maybe it's sensitivity Your friends protect you Scrutinize me I get so damn timid Not at all the spirit That's inside of me Oh baby I can't seem to make it With you socially There's this reef around me I'm looking way out at the ocean Love to see that green water in motion I'm going to get a boat And we can row it If you ever get the notion To be needed by me Fresh salmon frying And the tide rolling in I went to see a friend tonight 'Was very late when I walked in My talking as it rambled Revealed suspicious reasoning The visit seemed to darken him I came in as bright As a neon light And I burned out Right there before him I told him these things I'm telling you now Watched them buckle up In his brow When you dig down deep You lose good sleep And it makes you Heavy company I will always love you Hands alike Magnet and iron The souls ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:31:43 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Destrehan Wildcats (NJC) Once again ladies and gents the proud daddy announces a victory in the semi finals for #1 son Mikey. The score was 5-4 and Mikey played a great game with a hurt lower back and participated in the final out that won the game by tagging the runner out a 3rd base (besides having an RBI early in the game). Championship game tomorrow night so please beat the drum for us. Brother Jack Neilson will be driving the limo for the boys for the victory party after the game taking them to Hooters (are these kids related to me??? I would be going to a gourmet place not a titty restaurant!!!!!) Anyways just had to share with my peeps. Love to all! Paz P.S. Julian's team ended up third for the 7-8 year olds. Life is good! Baseboll be berry berry.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 02:02:55 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 29 On June 29 the following article was published: 1971: "Joni Mitchell's Bid for Top Album" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=154 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2004 #288 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)